Time for an NGE ... yep i said it!

[Ravaan]

So we all know how that worked out with SWG right, so it can't work for EQ2 right? I disagree.  EQ2 and SWG are completely different games, SWG was obviously a sandbox game a living world so thus the NGE failed there. With EQ2 being more or less your standard run of the mill MMO ... i think an NGE type change would work once the shock wore off.

So things they need to do is

1) consolidate the classes, make 9-12 classes 2) add the best of the lost classes into AA lines which offer lots of customization for players and various playstyles. Best example would be if you took the Assassin + SwashBuckler + Brigand into a rogue, you can have three AA lines. one for offensive debuffs one for defensive/mitigation debuffs or one for just plain damage. 3) add gimmicks to each new class to make them fresh and exciting for example for the new Monk class (monk + bruiser) add a combo-like system in which pressing certain combat arts at precise time would trigger bigger better attacks.

another idea is to completely revamp the heroic opp system. Basically make these extremely useful in raid situations that a strong well coordinated group can do some massive damage or get massively buffed by completeing these.

in my opinion this would solve many of the games balance issues with classes not being able to raid and what not.

[Sabatini]

Yeah nothing would make this game better than a complete redesign that gives us less! And yes turning this game into a first person shooter is exactly what it needs. Lets not leave that out!

Or you can save all that development time and go play a game with fewer classes, customization trees and combo-like combat systems. Like Age of Conan. Meet you back here once you're bored.

[Oh]

While yes I do agree the biggest MISTAKE soe made for raiding was 24 raid slots and 24 classes. Even with that being said I just don't see how it would be a good thing for this game to try and fix that situation. Yes there are some classes that could more/less be easily merged but there are others that it just won't work very well. I think good or bad, this was a mistake that SOE and frankly other MMO's have hopefully learned from, and the next generation will not make the same mistakes again.

[betatester7]

No more NGE, SOE must learn from the past, its not a good idea! This is EQ2, is a good franchise of SOE, and this is all because some classes can raid and other don't, and balance of all classes? this is not AoC, WOW, [insert your MMORPG], bla bla bla.Also this is EverQUEST, no a First Person Shooter MMORPG, if some people doesn't like, they may try another game.

[Zarador]

OK, I'll say it, the MINORITY of players are RAIDERS.  So the rest of us need to limit our choices and play styles to allow for more players to be able to raid?  Brilliant, just brilliant.  Saw the same argument in Vanguard about having no need for minor class differences.  Funny how people who seem to lack the knowledge about what exactly makes the subtle differences between the classes always seem to find the "lump them all up" solution to be the best one.Speaking of raiding, not every guild out there goes by the min/max approach.  Some actually enjoy the game for what it is and the players for what they add to the game.  Not everyone turns on the parsers to find out what player is best for the guild.Come to think of it, maybe that's why so many people talk about the greatness of the Min/Max system and broken classes.  They need a simple route that involves a basic set of spells/abilities with the *right* gear in order to remove the actual ability needs.  They can't appreciate that one player, knowing all the aspects of their class is better than another player of a "needed" class with limited knowledge of that class. 

[Grimdeath]

Ravaan wrote:

So we all know how that worked out with SWG right, so it can't work for EQ2 right? I disagree.  EQ2 and SWG are completely different games, SWG was obviously a sandbox game a living world so thus the NGE failed there. With EQ2 being more or less your standard run of the mill MMO ... i think an NGE type change would work once the shock wore off.

So things they need to do is

1) consolidate the classes, make 9-12 classes 2) add the best of the lost classes into AA lines which offer lots of customization for players and various playstyles. Best example would be if you took the Assassin + SwashBuckler + Brigand into a rogue, you can have three AA lines. one for offensive debuffs one for defensive/mitigation debuffs or one for just plain damage. 3) add gimmicks to each new class to make them fresh and exciting for example for the new Monk class (monk + bruiser) add a combo-like system in which pressing certain combat arts at precise time would trigger bigger better attacks.

another idea is to completely revamp the heroic opp system. Basically make these extremely useful in raid situations that a strong well coordinated group can do some massive damage or get massively buffed by completeing these.

in my opinion this would solve many of the games balance issues with classes not being able to raid and what not.

Option 4 (inclusive of other 3 points): Raise monthly subscription (non-station access) to $30 a month .. /sarcasmThe only thing I agree with in your post is the point on heroic opportunities. They are in need of a revamp as no one uses them - although I do and there are some semi-useful things that can happen as it stands now.As for Gimmicks to classes, I think most of them are unique enough already. You know, they could add a great gimmick to the summoner archetype - all any +spell dmg or +Crit item to actually stack on the pet. Oh sorry, that is supposed to be the way summoners actually work - but don't. I could guess we'll get another tree or extra abilities with AAs anyway in the next expansion.To be honest, instead of some stupid NGE (like the sounds-familiar-like-AoC ideas you've put above) type experiment which has shown to not work, in the case of SWG, why don't the developers actually do something that will benefit the community. No, bare with me. This is a great idea...Instead of releasing more new content to break this game further and that shows even more glaring mistakes and unbalanced classes, why not actually go back and fix some of the bugs that have plagued players for days, months and even years. Now that would be a really good New.Game.Enhancement. - don't you think?Summoners are broken as it stands. The only word we've received is [loosely put]"everything is working as we intend".. So this means that SOE actually wants Summoners to be broken. So Ravaan, maybe you could put this point as number one on your list. With that, add SKs, Bruisers, many other class related problems and itemization. Oh and don't forget the out of memory error as well.My point is that there is enough on SOE's plate right now to fix. A NGE you propose would do nothing good for this community and would in fact make a lot of people leave this game. Even though at times through their actions, SOE may not have their community's wants and wishes at heart, but I don't think they [SOE] would even want to go through a NGE again. I think they have learned their lesson.

[ganjookie]

Lol Maybe if LucasArts owned the EQ1 IP this would make sense.

[ShinGoku]

/tackles rev to the ground and chastises him/herNever, ever, ever use the phrase NGE near this game again!I would love for the classes to be better balanced out i.e. monks being able to tank raids and SKs being buffed up but I refuse to let anyone ruin my only other fave online game.  I loved SWG before NGE and I swear if SOE did it so EQ2 I would never play an mmo again!

[Mishkel]

I'd fully support a NGE in EQ2 if that meant it was removed from SWG.. and that game was returned to Pre-CU.

Then I could re-open my 9 SWG accounts and never log into EQ2 again.

I mean 9x15

Versus 2 station access accounts we run now.. would actually be more money from me to SOE.

Then again I'd never wish that kind of change on anyone.. so they should just remove it from SWG anyway and forget you wanted it added to anything else.

[Amphibia]

I'll give you two words:Too late

[firza]

Zarador wrote:

OK, I'll say it, the MINORITY of players are RAIDERS.  So the rest of us need to limit our choices and play styles to allow for more players to be able to raid?  Brilliant, just brilliant.  Saw the same argument in Vanguard about having no need for minor class differences.  Funny how people who seem to lack the knowledge about what exactly makes the subtle differences between the classes always seem to find the "lump them all up" solution to be the best one.

Why would you bring raiders/non raiders discussion in on a topic about NGE?

And then even with an not-proven minority statement, which does not add (even if correct) to the discussion the OP wants to have. Not to mention that according to your statement suddenly it seems all raiders want the same...and all non raiders want the opposite? (and before you do reply, please post your definition of what a raider is exactly)

To the OP:

To do an NGE will absolutely force people to leave the game. Even if only a few would leave it would be the wrong choice. I agree that 24 classes seems overdone, and many of those classes could easily be merged, doing this accross the board will take flavor away from the game.

one thing I do agree with: the HO system should have received an overhaul a long time ago. I even think its something that needs to be added to every new tier.

[skinandbones]

LOL You would kill this game like NGE killed SWG.Servers would be barren wastelands like it was in SWG.

People left in hoards leaving nothing left for people to buy or group with. 

I hope to never go though another NGE again.  I had 4 accounts PRENGE, 2 unlocked jedi's.  NGE hit and all account canceled, game uninstalled, disks detroyed.  Vowed never to return no matter what.

[Wyeth]

Very bad idea. The only reason I'm in EQ2 is because of the NGE.  Once that hit and my Master Ranger was destroyed, I closed my two accounts and left.  I haven't been back for even the free play times.

If they did that here, I'd be gone forever.

[Erithorn]

Not wanting to derail this momentous discussion..... but can someone enlighten me as to what "NGE" actually means??

 

[Wyeth]

NGE (New Game Experience)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_GalaxiesReviews for the initial launch of the game in 2003 were mostly positive. The game was praised for its lush graphics, liberal use of the movie soundtracks, massive world size, character customization, creative creature ecology, complex skill system, player economy interdependencies and its sandbox approach. Reviewers criticized the overwhelming complexity of the game, PVP/PVE combat imbalances of the professions, bugginess and lack of quest content. The reviews for the first expansion, Jump To Lightspeed, praised the new space combat but criticized the ground game for its lack of sufficient improvement. The reviews for the second expansion, Rage Of The Wookiees lauded the new quest content for current subscribers but lamented the combat gameplay updates and the continued bugginess of the game.Players who wished to play a Jedi character had to first unlock their Jedi slot by fulfilling an unknown list of criteria. The first player unlocked their 'Jedi slot' on 7 November 2003, four months after the release of the game. Media outlets and players criticized SOE for the substantial time commitment to unlock a Jedi, penalties for in-game death of a Jedi character which was permanent after three deaths, and monotonous game play required to acquire the Jedi character. Developers responded by changing the penalty for death to skill loss in January 2004 and creating a quest system to unlock the character. In November 2005, Jedi was changed to a starting profession and all players were allowed to play as one.SWG after the Combat UpgradeGameplay mechanics for combat and armor/weapon systems received a major update on 27 April 2005 when SOE released the "Combat Upgrade" (abbreviated as CU). Media outlets criticized the changes and cancellations temporarily rose, although subscriber numbers gradually grew back for the next seven months, hitting a peak around October 2005.[citation needed]Another major update called the "New Game Enhancements" (abbreviated as NGE) was implemented on 15 November 2005 and became available in retail on 22 November 2005 as the Star Wars Galaxies: Starter Kit. Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession. Media outlets such as CBS News, New York Times, New York Post and Wired Magazine criticized the reduced depth and complexity of the game., but John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment, defended the decision claiming it necessary to revamp the game in order to reverse the deterioration they were seeing in the subscriber base. SOE offered refunds on the Trials of Obi-Wan expansion due to it being released two days before the NGE was implemented. The development team affirmed this was their desired direction for the game and that they would modifying parameters to address player's concerns. Features such as expertise trees were later added to the game to add complexity and differentiation to characters. After the announcement that SOE had acquired the game Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Smedley addressed that game's players about the perceived threat of major changes to the game:

We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.—John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment

Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000. In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game. In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley, denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.Updates such as the Combat Upgrade and New Game Enhancements prompted a few small groups of players to develop server emulators which would allow for play in a previous version of the game. Different groups are currently attempting to reverse engineer versions of the game that would predate the Combat Upgrade. Although none of the emulator projects are completed, some are running public and private test servers with communities forming in advance of an emulator release.

[LordPazuzu]

Erithorn@Oasis wrote:

Not wanting to derail this momentous discussion..... but can someone enlighten me as to what "NGE" actually means??

 

"New Game Enhancement"It's when Lucas essentially forced SOE to change the core gameplay mechanics of SWG after several years of being live.  Lucas Arts did not understand the MMO genre and they had SOE change the game mid-life to play more like the single player console games they were familiar with producing. SOE went so far as to remove whole classes from the game.  Afterwards SWG was essentially a completely different game using the same game world as the previous version.

[Halato]

I would venture to say that at this point in this game's life, the only thing an NGE-like update could do is lower subscriber base.  You are basically asking the devs to put a whole lot of work into sinking their own game.

[feldon30]

Worst. Idea. Ever.

[liveja]

firza wrote:

Why would you bring raiders/non raiders discussion in on a topic about NGE?

Because the OP did, by claiming that his/her idea would solve many of the balance problems that leave people unable to raid.

To the OP: I would quit, on the spot, if SOE did this, & I don't think I'm the only one.

[mathalsolo]

Kithap@Permafrost wrote:

Lol Maybe if LucasArts owned the EQ1 IP this would make sense.

QFT

[Vonotar]

NOJustNO

[interstellarmatter]

I can't believe that I read this before I drank my coffee this morning....

To the OP: Hopefully, SOE learned from their mistake because it doesn't seem that you did

[Aurumn]

Leave my coercer alone.  I don't want a coerillusumlock or whatever. kthxbai

Variety is the spice of life and he who holds the spice rules the world.

[Xanrn]

Some people need to be taken out back and shot.Seriously reduce classes to 9-12 then give them AA which turns 12 classes into 36...Logic Failure!

[Windowlicker]

It's probably not best to ask for a change to be made to EQ2 that was known to oblitterate SWG.

[Zarador]

Seriously, here's what I don't get.  If your a Min/Max player looking to only do endgame content as fast as you can, then just choose a character that suits that desire.  It's that simple really!  But please, leave the class system alone for those who actually enjoy the subtle but important differences. After playing a Mystic for 64 levels and then betraying to be a Defiler, I can clearly say there is a huge difference between them.  In fact, I miss my Mystic so much I may betray back again!  I got my Wizard to 80 and tried out a Warlock, huge difference.  Played both types of Clerics, again, a huge difference.  The difference in classes allows us to more specifically tune our character to our play style.  Even from a roleplay aspect.  I may enjoy being a Shammy or Cleric, but prefer being evil or good. As the old saying goes, be careful of what you wish for.  Perhaps they could combine the classes, but what would be the outcome?  I strongly doubt that they will create "Mega Classes" with the best abilities of both combined into one.  (whinces) sorta a Ultra-Beastlord.  Can you just imagine the threads on balance issues (rightfully so) that would occur?  Well, the pet is strong, the heals are huge with long effective wards while they melee and dot with the best of them all while wearing chain?

[Sassinak]

I've got a better idea: make a new game for those people who want a different experience. We could give it:

• 3 races
• 12 classes
• 1 starting area
• 2 customization trees, let's rename them 'feats'
• replace the lore with something different, how about 'Conan'

Oh wait - that game's already out.

[Zarador]

Part of the problem, so it would seem is the rate of leveling that we receive these days.  Going back to the "golden era" of Everquest Live, one would take what seemed like forever to level up to end game.   This meant that when you camped out a piece of gear or received a new spell, you were going to use it and become very familiar with it's use for a very long time.Those days, for good or bad, are long gone.  Now we get the same spells every 10 levels, just a different version (for the most part) and since the mobs have remained the same but the gear and abilities have been upscaled, those special abilities, that we seldom use (most of us) don't matter short of specialized encounters. I think one of the reasons I really enjoy solo/duo play is that I have come to depend on many abilities that I actually see players in the 50+ range asking about or unaware of in chat. Wow!  That class can do that?  Wish I had of known that last night when we wiped to...So part of the player base, somewhat in a hurry feels that these differences can't possibly be important.  Why?  Because their often in a very powerful group wiping out the content in a hurry and not depending on those specialized abilities (or sometimes not even aware). I recall a Necromance commenting that they have so much power, they don't ever bother to Lich. I guess they never needed that damage adding portion of the spell as well. Wow, I actually wasted time making a (Insert Class) and getting it to 80 only to discover that I'm not needed.  There goes two weeks of playing down the tubes.  Lets combine all the classes so this can't happen again.  (sighs)

[ratdeath]

         We says noes!!The NGE clouds everything!SoE should give us a preCU server. Then you can have your NGE to this game, but I don't really want to wish that pain and suffering on the EQ2 players so just give us that preCU server anyway, yes!preCU server please? *drops ears and tail* *tilts head* *looks at Smed with sad ratonga eyes*         Squeeks!!

[Hellswrath]

I'm just going to go on about my day as though I never saw a horribly uninformed suggestion like this.Repression is your friend.