Formal requests in lieu of the skeleton revamp being scrapped

[Snowdonia]

Alright, since we've now been told that we will NOT be getting a skeleton revamp, I feel comnfortable enough to make a list of requests for our character models seeing they can no longer be overlooked due to a supposed revamp. We're going to have to keep and live with the character models we have then I'd like MANY (if not most) of the 3 years of requests options to be seriously considered for implimentation.Some of these are:

• Hairstyles need to be unlocked - There is no reason why only Human males can have all of their respective hairstyles from original and SOGA models available to them and no other race/sex combo can. Therefore, I request that hairstyles be unlocked such as the Human males have been. Additionally, the different racial hairstyles should also be unlocked and made available to similar races. This way, any race with common hair design make ups (IE Human, Wood Elf, High Elf, Half Elf, Dark Elf, Gnome, Barbarian, Fae, Arasai, Dwarf and Halfling) can choose from the battery of various hairstyles that an integrated society would normally allow (why can't my female High Elf have a mohawk?).
• Unlock accessories - I'm not asking that you unlock woads so that every other race can look like mini Barbarians, nor shrouds so we can all be like Wood Elves. But accessories such as scars, piercings, eyepatches and spectacles should not be racial specific.
• Give us belly buttons already - I understand this means reskinning that section of the model, but it's very unsettling looking at your character when they are a female elf or whatever other race/sex combo has this issue and wondering how they were born. Even Fae and Arasai have belly buttons and they aren't even born inside a womb.
• Panty lines have never been attractive - As much as I hate making a gender specific request, in this concern, thankfully, only females have this problem. While you are reskinning models so they have belly buttons, how about fixing some of the horrid panty lines that show when wearing some (formal ensemble) of the clothing available. The female models for Dwarves, Halflings, and Barbarians, being very "hippy" have their undies showing at the hips while the Erudites and Gnomes have them peeking out at the top (and who knows what other races, I've not finished my research here). If you're going to give us outfits that are as revealing as the formal ensemble, then our undergarments should not ruin the look.
• Separate the tops from the bottoms - There are some outfits out there that could benefit greatly from having the top actually be just the top instead of the entire outfit. Let the various complimentary pieces make up the rest of the look instead of letting the top do it for us. Maybe we don't want those pants with that top. Maybe we don't want those sleeves with that outfit.
• Give us something new to look at - Retinting the same armor skins can only get you so far and I think it's hit its plateau of usefulness IMO. I'm not asking for 100 new armor graphics, but 2 new graphics per armor type wouldn't go amiss. Cool designs on the same armor structure was a nice change that we got with RoK, but the basic structure of the armor is still the same and we need something new!
• I know I have a middrift somewhere - And this doesn't just go for female characters. There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing off a middrift. It's not something only tarty women like to do. I'd like to see some armor or clothing that doesn't cover up your middrift for a refreshing change.
• Skirts, loincloths and kilts - Not the things we have now that are slit up to the hip either. I want skirts and kilts that end at or slightly above the knee. I want a loincloth (or what I call "the flappies" ) that doesn't have leggings underneath (if we can remove the flappies from the leggings so we can wear leggings flappy free, there is no reason why it can't be done the other way around). If cloth sim makes my legs go through the skirts and kilts when I walk or run, so be it but I would rather have the option to wear them, than have no option at all.
• New emotes - If an Arasai can do an emo dance, and a Fae can do a ballet, why should every other race be forced to do the jitterbug? Every race should have their own dancing style added in addition to the jitterbug dance that every race should get as an alternate. I'm sure actions for the other emotes that currently have none would also be welcome.
• Rats and cats with whiskers - They all have them so why don't Ratongas and Kerrans. Put whiskers on a separate customization and remove them from the accessories options. Like the facial hair of other races, there is no reason why putting on an open faced helm should make their whiskers disappear.
• Broader color spectrum for eyes and hair - Even EQ1 allowed for far more color choices for some races than what is allowed in EQII. With a less segregated world such as EQ1 was, surely we didn't take a step backwards in this area. We would indeed have MORE variety of colors in hair and eyes than EQ1 would even dream of yet we don't. Open up those color pallettes!

That's all I can think of atm. If anyone wants to add to this list, feel free to and I'll edit them in.

[Vonotar]

Great post Snowdonia.Before anybody jumps the wrong way.  The skeleton vamp was officially 'announced' as abandoned during the recent allakhazam dev chat: http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_...at_July_31_2008Instead Sony are now: "focusing on now is ways to customize the look of your character with what we're referring to as "snap ons" that will change your characters profile or silhouette".In addition: "There are also a few other plans to enhance the look of characters that we'll be talking about more once we are more confident that they will work within the EQII framework"Therefore I agree with Snowdonia that we should relook at what we would like to see improved, as we no longer need to await a 'skeleton revamp' first.I would also humbly request that we focus on the improvements we would like to see and leave grumbles regarding the dropping of the Skeleton Revamp in the 'Skeleton Rework' topic: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418823(Apologies to Snowdonia for the slight OT)

[Doggi]

Well I don't have any specific points to add, but I'd like to comment a bit: I always wondered why hairstyles and accessories are limited to several races. If they were open to all races, you could look more individual due to having more options to choose from.Perhaps SOE should creat new hairstyles, too. Second, SOE stated many times that it's difficult to create new armor models. Since the whole "skeletal revamp"-thing was a total waste of time, SOE could have created new armor models in the time figuring out that the software wouldn't work (don't know why it took THAT long to recognize it wouldn't work).I'm fine with the current models, only the lack of armor bothers me.Showing more skin while being protected, long skirts, short skirts, no skirts (trousers *g*)Once I made a drawing of my former shadowknight in an armor (which I think) looks really great... though the protection of the neck is on the wrong side (please, ignore the hands xD)

[Firecracker]

Great Post!

I liked everything in it especially the unlocking the hair styles. I will have to say this, when people keep saying 'Just making the amor different tints will only suffice some', but do you know how many armor types I have came across that have no other peice to match it and actually have different look to it? alot!  I also want to see new armor too but there is a lot out there that is not being used enough and would like to see it be used. Some npc's have armor that I wouldn't mind seeing be made into armor. I would also like to see more mage's vest's that reveal more skin, especially around the neck callarbone area. I would also like to see more colors be made for the high elf hair & dark elf hair like brown to black for high elf's and different shades of red for the dark elf's with red eyes too. I ask this for in eq1 I'm sure high elfs could have darker shades and as for dark elfs having red hair I think I get from stories, games and movies that I would have to call them dark elfs.

I know there is more I can say on this for I have been wanting more choices to make my charcater different then the rest.

Edited to add: Is possbile to make are underwear on the famales be just panties & a bra instead of the rag dress with the option to change colors?

[Aurumn]

While you're at it, pretty please let Ratongas keep their whiskers with accessories and helms/hoods. It makes no sense that a naked rat has whiskers, but as soon as he/she puts on a cap... *poof* naked nose. /cry

How about adding an additional toggle in character creation: [Display Whiskers Y/N]

[WeatherMan]

One thing they could do is give us an idea of what these 'snap-ons' they are working on will do.  They say one will change a silhouette of a character.  That's great.How?Are they snap-on legs of varying height?  Snap-on undergarments?  Snap-on hairstyles?  Snap-on bustlines?  Snap-on accessories like sunglasses and masks?Please show us something we can use for a frame of reference instead of the generic Mr. Potato Head allusion.

[Snowdonia]

Mezzmyrelda, I know what you mean but when I think of all the different types of helms out there that there are, that whole thing would be fiddly to get right. If they just put in a Y/N option for helms, we'd get full facial helms with whiskers sticking out which you have to admit would look rather silly. I even tried to come up with wording for the fuction to add to my list but it was getting so lengthy and muddled I just left it out. WeatherMan, It would make my day if they actually showed us something of what they mean by "snap ons", even if it was just showing us by giving an in depth explanation on how they work, but since we kept asking for the same thing about the skeleton revamp, IE proof of concent, I'm not holding my breath. I just refuse to be baited by this new incarnation of making the models work better, hence why I made the "list of demands" as it were. hehe

[Aurumn]

Snowdonia; That could be solved as easily as tagging helms as openface or closed. Here's an example of a helm that clearly obstructs none of the face, and yet...When her accessories were earrings and a nosering they disappeared with the helm on too. Despite the fact that her ears and nose are unobscured. It's a small thing, I admit. But if it can work properly with dwarven facial hair, it should be able to work on plain old whiskers too. The other whisker issue is that you have to pick an accessory "pack" that includes whiskers to have them at all! IMO, they should be a seperate toggle in character creation. In order to get the whiskers in the above picture my little 'tonga lass had to give up her earrings... or sport a hideous eyepatch. *shiver*

[Rorasis]

I don't care how difficult it is.  New armor models please.

[Coniaric]

About the comments why it took so long ... I'll guess they want it to work as much as the players do. Beside, it's not the only project going on ... after all, there are other tasks that are being done as well.

Also don't anyone here had a moment or two where they wanted something to happened so much the way they hoped for? And won't concede defeat until it had to be conceded?

Next time put in full context of what was said, not cut in half, please.

*****

Bludwyng: Labratt asks, Are there any updates on the skeletal model changes?

Kirstie: The skeletal revamp has been through a lot of iterations internally on the EQII team and is now a bit of a misnomer. The original technology that we had planned to use didn't work out as we expected (software, who knew).

Kirstie: And we are also being careful not to drastically change the character models. We don't want anyone to log in one day and not recognize their favorite character.

Kirstie: What we are focusing on now is ways to customize the look of your character with what we're referring to as "snap ons" that will change your characters profile or silhouette.

Kirstie: There are also a few other plans to enhance the look of characters that we'll be talking about more once we are more confident that they will work within the EQII framework

[Snowdonia]

Coniaric, Evaine provided a link to the full transcript so I see no reason why they should provide a full cut and paste of the mention when people can go read it themselves. I also fail to see how it took over 2 years to figure out that this revamp wasn't going to work with their current software. Additionally, this post isn't about discussing the whens, whys, and how comes of the revamp and its failure to deliver. This is about compiling the years of wishful thinking and "wish lists" that people like myself have made that were offhandedly brushed aside as unviable requests due to the supposed revamp. Please keep the revamp discussion in its proper thread. Mezzmyrelda, I'm going to add in the whiskers to the list but I'd like your help with the wording so please feel free to post responses to correct, add, or fine tune the entry I make.

[Noaani]

Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote:

I don't care how difficult it is.  New armor models please.

I would think that if they put all the manpower the used on the skeletal revamp into new armour models, there would be far fewer complaints about the whole topic.

[Finora]

I agree with the OP! On top of that, I'd love some long hair options that aren't a just a big braid. I don't care if it clips with my back & cloak when I run. I can deal with that. I just would like some long hair. And I'm crossing my fingers that they will give us the ability to add things like the scars, freckles, make-up and things of that sort as well as changing the outline of our char.

[Vexy]

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

[WeatherMan]

Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

There are certain things a high elf could have that make sense.I'll agree that a Halasian woad or a multicolored mohawk would not be appropriate, but I honestly don't see what's wrong with an eyepatch - better that than walking around with a gaping eye socket. If I lost an eye, I'd likely wear an eyepatch in lieu of a glass eye - and I don't see why any non-Ayr'Dal/ratonga/whoever-else-gets-the option wouldn't, either. What about specialized (and subtle) tattoos? Maybe a lightly colored sword over one eye - call it 'Strength of Felwithe' or something (for example). Maybe markings on a religious basis? My fury would likely have a senior cleric of Karana (or whoever) tattoo a 'Bolt of the Storms' (or whatever) across his temple (or wherever) were that to be an option. Hairdos...okay...what we have here in the game now, borders on ridiculousness in many cases. Some hairdos look lame...others look hideous...and others still look like the artist inhaled a few lines from a mirror before sitting down to do their work. You cannot convince me, no matter what, that the population of Norrath hasn't heard of the 'long ponytail', the 'bob', or 'unbound hair with no styling whatsoever'. This is particularly bad on dark elves, of both genders. Sure, cultural and religious considerations exist, but really now. Even something as simple as allowing SOGA hairdos on original models (and vice versa, for you sartorially masochistic sorts) would be a huge step forward. Even if you gave all styles to all races, there is enough in the way of differences that they would not come out a homogenous lot, so that, in my opinion, is something we need never fret over. Where are the hair bands? The hair combs? The hair pins? The barretts? Things you grab, twist a handful of hair into place, and push them into your scalp? My wife does this sort of thing all the time, and I am sure the artists either do themselves, or live with someone who does. She only has the bizarre hairdos (that are a 'daily' thing in Norrath) when we go to science fiction conventions - and she's no slouch with such things, but it takes a heck of a lot longer than a member of the Freeport Militia would spend arranging their 'do before going out to skullthump some Bloodskulls.One thing that really annoyed me was the huge restrictions they placed on color. No, not armor dyes, but the colors one finds in nature. In EQ Live, I had a Koada'Dal with dark hair and a beard. Now he has to be clean-shaven, and the only other color that fits the concept of bringing him forward 500 years is white. I want the dark hair back. I want the beard back. I want it all back. And I don't want to have to bargain with the Devil's Advocate or Mr. Morden to do it.

[CorpseGoddess]

Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

I have to respectfully disagree.  Rather than "class individuality", what we have now is "class blandness".  There are only so many permutations you can make to your character---at least once a day I run into a toon that looks just like me!  Opening up the borders between toon options a bit would increase the individuality of our toons and make for a much more interesting population.I agree with the OP---great ideas there.  I would also like to add that I would like to see some basic hairstyles...sometimes I just want long and curly, or long and straight.  No gewgaws, no sticks, no jewels.  Also, I'd love to see basic outfit components in basic colours.  Tight pants in black, orange, red, etc., without any other colours.  Something to mix and match with more ornate pieces.I draw, so the visual aspect of this game and my toon are very important to me, and I like it when I can get a look I'm happy with.

[Coniaric]

Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:

Coniaric,Evaine provided a link to the full transcript so I see no reason why they should provide a full cut and paste of the mention when people can go read it themselves.I also fail to see how it took over 2 years to figure out that this revamp wasn't going to work with their current software.Additionally, this post isn't about discussing the whens, whys, and how comes of the revamp and its failure to deliver. This is about compiling the years of wishful thinking and "wish lists" that people like myself have made that were offhandedly brushed aside as unviable requests due to the supposed revamp. Please keep the revamp discussion in its proper thread.

Sorry, but no. Since the topic was brought up here, the cut of transcript is relevant to the subject. Link notwithstanding.

[Snowdonia]

Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

To the italicized, as I said in my original write up, I'm not talking about race defining aspects such as woads or shrouds (although I so like your idea WeatherMan about tattoos), those would definitely be exceptions. But piercings? Those are HARDLY race defining. Neither are any of the other accessory type things I listed that they should unlock.To the bolded, my High Elf is a very evil Bruiser. What lore is it you're looking at that would rebuke a High Elf like mine having a mohawk? That's right, there's isn't any. Any "lore" for a High Elf is based off of their original, good aligned culture. My High Elf no longer adheres to that culture so why should she be bound by the constraints of said culture any longer? If my female High Elf Bruiser was walking around with a mohawk instead of the everyday prissy-missy hair-do they are forced into now, she would most definitely be VERY individual. I chose a High Elf for my Bruiser because she was a High Elf Bruiser; it's part of her RP. It was the sole reason why I made her the way I did and not a Half Elf, or Human, or Barbarian, or whatever other race that can start out as a Bruiser. Her outward appearance should support this drastic shift in ideals rather than force her to adhere to something she no longer believes in or associates herself with.As Streppoch said, right now we have a very bland setting. Why not let us decide how much we would like to shake it up?

[Suprchik407]

I agree with all points from the OP, Id like to add in a siamese coloring for kerras (it was on my vah shir in eq1 and I loves it) , fix the tiger skins on female kerra, it looks great on males but its nose area is misaligned on females and it makes them look ugly.Make my human female have more face options, heck toggle the human majdul females and Ill be happy, or give us what was made back before the game launched officially, Im not loving my dowdy looking human female, and she just looks frumpy with flat large [Removed for Content], if they are to be large dont make them so flat. Im a female IRL with large breasts and even without a bra they dont look like that. :/ Plus I have curves- please add that into the human model, if you need help think Maryln Monroe for inspiration on human models then give us a slider or something (snap on) to make them thin or bigger [Removed for Content]. Also, I dont mind too much the different tints on dresses- ( I want more tints on the formal wears like they just came out with and I know they cant do more than they have already but I hope they rebuild it where they could recolor it in any way easier). The separates (tops and bottom thing) is great and perhaps with the whole snap ons thing it might be an easier possability now in the future. I sure hope they are taking some eyefulls from the free online game Perfect World, it isnt that far off graphically from eq2 and yet its so much more interesting with what can be done with their own use of snap ons. Their avatars can fly for crying out loud and we can only hover in place Anywho- look up that game devs for some pretty awesome armors that seem to be the definition of "snap ons", and give us some nice variety. (/whispers bunny and/or cat ears

[Troubor]

Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

Someone else commented on this but since you mentioned high elves specfically:

a)  High elf with "crazy hair".  Simple, said high elf is an outcast.  Enough so that they decided to betray to an "evil" city, even if that maybe means being treated poorly by the Teir'Dal there, they can maybe find some social group in an evil city that will treat the high elf as something close to an equal.  In rebellion against his former high elven culture, he wears his hair in a mohawk or some other "crazy hair" style.

b)  Eyepatch:  High elves get eye injuries too.  Yes we have priests that apparently can regenerate damage, but for there to be eye patches on other races, there must be injuries that cause it so the eye can't be regenerated.  And/or maybe if the face isn't healed fast enough the eye can't be regenerated.  So...a high elf with an eye patch is just that, a high elf whom for whatever reason couldn't get priestly treatment in time and/or took enough damage to a small enough area that the eye was destroyed beyond whatever priest(s) he could get to could heal, and thus lost the eye.

c)  Woad/tattoos:  High Elven child gets orphaned with some wood elves.  For whatever reason, maybe the couple who find him can't have children for instance, they decide to raise the child as their own.  So, assuming the wood elven "tattoos" are that, and not some bizarre pattern that for some reason forms on it's own, they put that family's/clan's pattern on him at the appropriate age. 

[Rainmare]

actually, the lore would state that a high elf that did go down the path of a brusier/monk type would still not do somethign so hideous to thier hair as to shave it off into a mowhawk. thier very culture, despite your obvious betrayal from qeynos to be a bruiser, dictates refinement and elegance. if a high elf brusier were to shave thier head in any manner, they'd probably shave the entire thing, or might have the style that is a single braid of hair. No matter what proffession a Koada'dal chooses, they indeed take great care to not only be the best, but to look the best.They simply don't do the 'wild' hiarstyles. they leave that for the 'common' folk to do. in fact, a high elf  woudl probably consider a half-elf with a mohawk haircut as it being a desperate plea for attention, since they obviously have no other quality worthy of gaining attention if they have to go so far as to have an orange mohawk.a koada'dal brawler would not make a statement with thier hairstyle. they'd make a statement by laying you out on your back, (as a bruiser) or through enlightening actions and speech (as a monk). a high elf wouldn't consider a hairstyle a form of 'rebellion'. they proved that enough by leaving thier kin to go to Freeport.and if you think for a second that a Koada'dal would do ANYTHING that would lessen thier standing among elves, especially in a Tier'dal infested city, your out of your mind. in fact, if a high elf did go to fp, that if they chose any other 'cultural' hairsyles, it'd be the dark elves, certainly NOT a half-elf.both the dark and high elves consider the half-elf to be..well...little more then servant status. they simply are not worthy of being more then that becuase thier bloodline is tainted by a non-elf. thus, a high elf would try to blend in more with the tier'dal, then they would even consider trying to get into the ayr'dal subculture.I will agree though on the eyepatch, and spectacles. those shouldn't be restricted to gnomes/ratonga.Woad/tattoos...I would probably expand this maybe to humans/halfelves. the concept of a high elf/dark elf getting them is as much out of the question as using a 'lesser' races hairstyle. leave that sort of nonsense to the peasents. and the idea of a high elf child getting orphaned to woodelves is again, a racial tabboo. any koada'dal would take in an orphaned one of thier own before they'd give the fier'dal a chance. that child would have to literally be the only high elf within tens of miles, and have not one single surviving family member left at all.

[WeatherMan]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

(1) actually, the lore would state that a high elf that did go down the path of a brusier/monk type would still not do somethign so hideous to thier hair as to shave it off into a mowhawk. thier very culture, despite your obvious betrayal from qeynos to be a bruiser, dictates refinement and elegance. if a high elf brusier were to shave thier head in any manner, they'd probably shave the entire thing, or might have the style that is a single braid of hair. No matter what proffession a Koada'dal chooses, they indeed take great care to not only be the best, but to look the best.They simply don't do the 'wild' hiarstyles. they leave that for the 'common' folk to do. in fact, a high elf woudl probably consider a half-elf with a mohawk haircut as it being a desperate plea for attention, since they obviously have no other quality worthy of gaining attention if they have to go so far as to have an orange mohawk.a koada'dal brawler would not make a statement with thier hairstyle. they'd make a statement by laying you out on your back, (as a bruiser) or through enlightening actions and speech (as a monk). a high elf wouldn't consider a hairstyle a form of 'rebellion'. they proved that enough by leaving thier kin to go to Freeport.and if you think for a second that a Koada'dal would do ANYTHING that would lessen thier standing among elves, especially in a Tier'dal infested city, your out of your mind. in fact, if a high elf did go to fp, that if they chose any other 'cultural' hairsyles, it'd be the dark elves, certainly NOT a half-elf.both the dark and high elves consider the half-elf to be..well...little more then servant status. they simply are not worthy of being more then that becuase thier bloodline is tainted by a non-elf. thus, a high elf would try to blend in more with the tier'dal, then they would even consider trying to get into the ayr'dal subculture.I will agree though on the eyepatch, and spectacles. those shouldn't be restricted to gnomes/ratonga.(2): Woad/tattoos...I would probably expand this maybe to humans/halfelves. the concept of a high elf/dark elf getting them is as much out of the question as using a 'lesser' races hairstyle. leave that sort of nonsense to the peasents. and the idea of a high elf child getting orphaned to woodelves is again, a racial tabboo. any koada'dal would take in an orphaned one of thier own before they'd give the fier'dal a chance. that child would have to literally be the only high elf within tens of miles, and have not one single surviving family member left at all.

Right...point by point (I added numbers to your post to make it easier for me): (1): I have to disagree with this.  Certainly, there are classes that do not lend to this type of hair-mutilating rebellion - inquisitors, shadowknights, and mages of pretty much any sort come to mind.  But a betraying Koada who followed the way of the bruiser (as you indicated) certainly would...and in addition, consider a Koada brigand or assassin - a 'Tasha Yar'-style hairdo, while not approved of in high elven cultural circles, would afford the erstwhile scout type ease of care, as would a crew cut (much as I dislike the idea).  In this case, culture must take a back seat to two other considerations.  Namely, practicality and (most importantly) the concept the player has for the character.(2): My earlier idea about Koada'Dal tattoos should not be thought of in the terms of a barbarian clan's woads, a wood elf's shroud, or the wild, rebellious tattoos of half-elves.  A more appropriate comparison would be a Masonic ring, or a belt buckle device similar to that worn by the Knights of Columbus - this concept of 'societies', especially in light of the corruption of the Renda'Dal, would be a further link back to the Felwithe of yesteryear, which any Koada, even a violent misanthrope like Snowie's bruiserette, would not be so quick to dismiss or distance themselves from - and which even a betrayer would display with no reservation.  Wanna be different?  Get one of these, because any dimwit can get a pierced or a multicolored mohawk.  These tattoos would actually mean something.To me, this is a heck of  lot more 'cultural' than a pile of hair on the noggin - and short of deliberate violence designed to erase it from the character's face (in which case, the attacker may just as well be trying to kill them), it cannot be taken away by any halfwit lunatic with a pair of gardening shears.  This 'device' is a tattoo that is applied to the Koada in question.  They sit down, close their eyes, and the tattoo artist applies the inks into their ocular region (namely, the area stretching from the lower part of the forehead to the upper part of the cheek) on one side of the face.  These tattoos, whatever they are (sword, lightning bolt, crossed staves, the Royal Seal, and so forth) are not 'given' to them - it is something they have earned, whether through effort or by heritage (although the player is selecting the tattoo at creation).  So not only must I respectfully disagree with your 'no-tattoo' contention, I think that many instances exist where a high elf would have a tattoo.  And while I do not think we will ever see a high elf with a wood elf shroud, the explanation given makes perfect sense to me.  Were it up to me, I would allow this expansion of player choice above rigid, imagination-stifling 'lore'.

[Rainmare]

I'll go with your masonic crest type tattooing for a high elf. that does seem to fit. just that the first thign that came to mind with tattooing, and the given example, implies woads/shroud type things.the hairstyle changes for a proffession, is, frankly, one of the reasons I have a sever dislike for the ARAC concept.  but a bruiser has no 'proffesional' reason to get such a wild haricut as a mohawk. in fact, it woudl be seen as a hinderance to have a foot of hair stuck straight out to grab. a bruiser would probably be bald, or keep thier hair relatively short.though, as shown in many works of art related to armored figures, particularly Kitara of Dragonlance, a helm wearing person can still have a decent short looking haircut. I would say that a koada'dal would probably go that route over something like a crewcut. They'd sooner pick a look like Stallone from Rambo then they would Van-Dame from Universal Soldier.

[Lodrelhai]

There's one major falacy in your arguments; you are imposing cultural mores over individual choice, and there are always individuals who bulk the cultural mores.  This is how cultures grow and change.  Look around you - how many women wear pants and short hair now?  I remember my mom being worried about my development because I didn't like skirts and makeup, now no one thinks twice about it.  High elves won't emulate a subordinate race upon whom they look down?  I wonder, back in the 1800s, how many people said the same about whites associating with blacks, much less such extreme ideas for the time like interracial marriage.  Homosexual acceptance in the US is swinging the same way.For in-game examples, take a look at diety and class choices.  When the elves were first created, they worshipped their creator, Tunare.  That's it, end of discussion.  Other gods might be granted respect, but certainly not worshipped above the Mother of All.  As the races split and diversified, some started taking other gods - in EQ1 I Karana, Ro, and either Marr twin were all valid choices for high elf worship.  And now it's all up to alignment - heck, with the EQ1 server titles which are a vetran reward, you can claim to be of a god who's not even in-game.  And when, in EQ1, did we ever see a high elf monk?  Or any fighter besides Paladin?  Any healer besides Cleric (modern Templar)?  Any scout at all?  You're saying that a race which has adapted to this level cultural shift would consider trying a mohawk to be an unforgiveable sin?Can cultural mores keep most people from exploring the full extent of their will and personality?  Certainly.  But the individual who is willing to face the consequences of challenging those mores has no reason to adhere to them.  And a betrayer, who has willingly exiled themselves from that culture, would hardly be stopped from trying a new hair style they are interested in because "my kind doesn't do that."  Their kind doesn't betray their own to live side-by-side with their traditional enemies, either.  The greater taboo has already been violated.  Some will still cling to cultural dressings to sustain a sense of identity, others will reject them wholesale.  And some might reject the outer trappings like having the "right" hairstyle while still holding true to the inner core of cultural beliefs.Yes, some very traditional high-elf paladin who worships Tunare and is insulted that the Renda'Dal think his bloodline less than pure may consider those individuals as no better than the lesser races they've mimicked.  That's the traditionalist's choice.  Just as it is the rebel's choice to ignore or even mock the traditionalist's sneers.

[WeatherMan]

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

(1) I'll go with your masonic crest type tattooing for a high elf. that does seem to fit. just that the first thign that came to mind with tattooing, and the given example, implies woads/shroud type things.(2) the hairstyle changes for a proffession, is, frankly, one of the reasons I have a sever dislike for the ARAC concept. but a bruiser has no 'proffesional' reason to get such a wild haricut as a mohawk. in fact, it woudl be seen as a hinderance to have a foot of hair stuck straight out to grab. a bruiser would probably be bald, or keep thier hair relatively short.though, as shown in many works of art related to armored figures, particularly Kitara of Dragonlance, a helm wearing person can still have a decent short looking haircut. I would say that a koada'dal would probably go that route over something like a crewcut. They'd sooner pick a look like Stallone from Rambo then they would Van-Dame from Universal Soldier.

Again, I'm using numbers.(1): I can see where you would have gotten that impression, and for the record, I should have stated that I was speaking about something different.  I will have to agree that a Koada is unlikely to ape the habits of a 'lowly halfbreed' - but then again, player characters are a mercurial bunch.(2): I'll agree with this contention - any sane hand-to-hand fighter (brawler) is unlikely to have a hairdo that affords an enemy a handhold.  I made a halfling monk-turned-bruiser, and her hairstyle is the (SOGA) short braid in back - deliberately chosen for the very reason you stated.  Well, that and the missus did the same, and they sort of match appearance-wise.  The Kitiara analogy is well-stated.  And I cannot disagree.  My problem is many of the weird hairstyles we have now, many of which are identical across multiple races anyways.  Any 'cultural hairdos' (such as the exclusive side-loop pigtails of wood elfettes) should reflect that, and not be copied into another race with a different name.  Hairdos that all races share should be simple and utilitarian (such as the braid we have now, or the ponytails, crew cuts, and bobs we don't).

[Ashlian]

I definitely agree that they unfairly limited us in hair and eye color from what was available in EQ1. My half elf in EQ1 had violet eyes, and there is no way by any stretch of the imagination that I could give her violet eyes in EQ2. Given the fact that they allow you to pick a racial heritage for half elves including ANY of the elven races, limitation to a single palette.....an eye color palette that I find doesn't even include a true blue to me or include colors that DO exist in nature for regular humans and makes it difficult to select a color of the right intensity. It's hard to get a good brown or green and I find it very limiting. I really mourned that I couldn't recreate the original Ashlian with the violet eyes! The hair palette is equally limiting given, again, that half elves should be as broad in racial heritage as the various elven and human races they can descend from.  I would definitely like to see broader color spectrums for eye and hair color for the races that are more limited currently.

[StormQueen]

Better hairstyle choices for many races, aye. And did they forget that Halasian men traditionally had varying beard styles? I have no intention of growing either that single or forked braided thing. That's for Dwarves!

And speaking of Dwarves, females have really lost some of the uniqueness they had before. 2 weird facial hair styles with no mustache.  My paladin would like to look like her ancestress did.

Oh, yes, painted-on eyebrows are so wrong.  Why not match them  to the hair like some of the Human models do? Not overexaggerated like some, but still.....

And..........how about stubble for males of many/most races?

[Qandor]

Noaani wrote:

Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote:

I don't care how difficult it is.  New armor models please.

I would think that if they put all the manpower the used on the skeletal revamp into new armour models, there would be far fewer complaints about the whole topic.

And how much manpower did they put into it exactly? We certainly do not know. My gut feeling is that this skeletal revamp thing was never seriously worked upon. It would not take 2 years to realize that the software doesn't work if it was a continously staffed task. The whole crux of the issue was new armor models. We were told that new armor models were too hard to do on the existing skeletons. (great planning there by the original design team for sure).

So they floated the skeletal revamp as a solution to this problem but that turned out to be too hard to do also. The skeletal revamp was SoE's invention. Players just wanted more variety in armor and do not particularly care how that is accomplished. So far 4 years has produced zero progress on the issue.

They bragged pre-release about how easy it was for them to morph armor across races but post release they sang a different toon. Post release they claimed each piece of armor had to be painstakingly crafted for each race and gender. So which was the truth and which was the lie?

[valkry]

What I'd like to know is does 'snap on' mean that we could change hair-styles/accessories without having to have a complete make-over (and barber costs)?

For example my High Elf is out hunting in her normal 'fighting' appearance gear and her usual hair style (the braid wrapped around her head & a bunch of crazy curls in the back). Then she comes back to the city and its time for a bit of RP with friends. She changes into 'dressy' outfit... Can she snap on a new 'formal up-do' for her hair (without having to change, or not change, her whole appearance)?

Likewise, maybe Leeroy's barb is 5 o'clock shadow in the field, but he wants to shave for his wedding, and his Woodie bride would like to let her normally tied back hair, flow loose under the veil. Unless you are a skin-head in real life, most folks can, and will, slightly change their hairstyles over a few days/weeks. We are not forced to wear the same exact style everyday.

I could see some stuff being impossible to get; the Erudians' glifs or the 'Tongas' wiskers (if all of the 'Tongas could get them) are stickly racial. It would have to be decided if "tattoos/woad" are actually created by people... and usable by all/most races, or magically created and limited only to those folks who appear to be pure-blooded examples of the race (No, my Human can have woad & tattoos because he is 1/16 Barb on his mother's side & his dad was 3/4 Woodie).

But there is no reason why something like hair shouldn't be open to all/most races. (Troll/Kerra/some Tonga girl hair might not work for all, but most females could wear most hair styles.) My Half Elf's family is Dark Elves. You would think that at least once or twice her mother & sister would sit her down, grab a jar full of "Je'Mal's Gnomish Hair Paste" and give her a proper hair style, even if just for a nice family Frostfell dinner.

[StormQueen]

valkry wrote:

What I'd like to know is does 'snap on' mean that we could change hair-styles/accessories without having to have a complete make-over (and barber costs)?

For example my High Elf is out hunting in her normal 'fighting' appearance gear and her usual hair style (the braid wrapped around her head & a bunch of crazy curls in the back). Then she comes back to the city and its time for a bit of RP with friends. She changes into 'dressy' outfit... Can she snap on a new 'formal up-do' for her hair (without having to change, or not change, her whole appearance)?

Likewise, maybe Leeroy's barb is 5 o'clock shadow in the field, but he wants to shave for his wedding, and his Woodie bride would like to let her normally tied back hair, flow loose under the veil. Unless you are a skin-head in real life, most folks can, and will, slightly change their hairstyles over a few days/weeks. We are not forced to wear the same exact style everyday.

I could see some stuff being impossible to get; the Erudians' glifs or the 'Tongas' wiskers (if all of the 'Tongas could get them) are stickly racial. It would have to be decided if "tattoos/woad" are actually created by people... and usable by all/most races, or magically created and limited only to those folks who appear to be pure-blooded examples of the race (No, my Human can have woad & tattoos because he is 1/16 Barb on his mother's side & his dad was 3/4 Woodie).

But there is no reason why something like hair shouldn't be open to all/most races. (Troll/Kerra/some Tonga girl hair might not work for all, but most females could wear most hair styles.) My Half Elf's family is Dark Elves. You would think that at least once or twice her mother & sister would sit her down, grab a jar full of "Je'Mal's Gnomish Hair Paste" and give her a proper hair style, even if just for a nice family Frostfell dinner.

Aye, Treissae doesn't like stubble burns.  And she does look sweet with her hair down.

Many races are missing some hairstyle or other, I have noticed.  And some "appearance" type item (snap-on?) for special occasions would be welcomed by not only roleplayers but certain clotheshorses like the one looking out the mirror at me.   My hair may be tousled and perpetually in my eyes out in the wild, so to speak, but I am actually very fastidious about my appearance/cleanliness. So let me comb back the tangles and look like I spent a few minutes on hygiene before I am seen about town.