The Fyreflyte Crusader Equipment Stat wish thread.

[Faelgalad]

There was an phrase with not adressing Devs, but as he wished for a thread, it seems legite.

This thread is born out of this thread.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=423929

(Shield of the Green Dragon - now 9 months in to expansion and nerfed?) Page 3

Issues ofthen spoken in many threads.

Short List: 

4-5 Attributes on Equipment

Defensive: Block -> Parry -> Defense -> Defensive procs are nice, but we need a reliable fundament of defense first.

Offensive:  Double Attack -> Melee Crit -> Fast Cast -> Haste/Fast Attack -> DPS

Manareg: We are powerholics and really power inefficient by design. Power procs and regneration is allways nice.

Not wanted: Heal Crit, Boni to "Donation to Armament" Spell, Boni to Healing. We will use Cleric Equipment if we want to swith into healer role. But Healing stuff on our tank stuff, is not apreciated. Health Regneration is of zero use for us.

As I'am only half competent on the Shadowknight Issues, pls coprehensive aid from an Shadowknight.  My sluggish Englich, oversee it, not my native language.

Epic, Fabled, Paladin + Shadowknight.  

Both Crusaders need +5% Block on Fabled version. So we can switch from T7 Soulfire Gladius.

Paladin Proc on Fabled, is useless, our attacks are quite low, we cap very easily. Most attacks have 500-750 Damage! (Non Raid Paladin)

Meaning softcap 250 for damage bonus.

Mythical: Look into Class forums.

Further Reading, Paladin Epic: http://www.eq2flames.com/paladins/2...ed-changes.html

Shadowknight Epic: http://www.eq2flames.com/shadowknig...anges-gu47.html

Subclass Set: Crusader

No experience with Class Set, so I post for what I'am familiar with. I try to show the equiment problems on the first raid set. As it is designed as an allround solution.

Set Boni 1: Donation of Armament, is no use, Mitigation has Diminished Return curve. 125 Spell and Heal Bonus, we cap easily. Comparision, Warriors get Mental Damage on their Taunts.

Set Boni 2: 5% Group Transfer is nice for Shadowknight, but useless for Paladin with Amend and Sigil.

Something that is discrimination, Warriors get +5 Block on Helmet (Imzog + Atrebe), Crusaders get +5% Block on Breastplate (Venril Sathir, Selrach, Leviathan). So the hardship to get the Block Items is much higher for Crusaders, without compensation. Change Block from Breast to Helmet, or increase Block on Breast for higher difficulty of getting it. We get + on Spell Damage, and on other piece on Combat Art. That's the same effect as the +70 Combat Art for the Warriors. They get an extra +3% Riposte! We need two pieces for the same, and they get the goody.

Demonguard vs. Wrathbringer

Power and Mitigation is equall

Demonguard: 186 Str, 202 Stamina, 56 Agility, 76 Wisdom, 48 Intelligence = 568

Wrathbringer: 212 Strenght, 213 Stamina, 149 Agility, 26 Wisdom = 600

Comparing: Shadowknight gains nothing from Wisdom, lowering stats to 492, Warrior get nothing from Wisdom, lowering to 574.

The massiv loss on Agility hurts tanking, the low intelligence hurts Shadowknights, and Paladins in lesser degree. Maybee you will find it overpowered, but the Demonguard set should look more like... 212 Str, 213 Stamina, 149 Agility, 149 Wisdom, 212 Intelligence = 935 = Parity to Warriors.

That would bring Damage Stat parity. Crusaders would get a bit more Resistance from it 369 to all. This as an example for faulty crusader equipment design.

There are two major issues for Paladin, and three issues for Shadowknight which are not well done now. I will allways compare to Guardian, as he is the Benchmark.

1.1. DPS:

Guardian has 60% Double Attack though Achivement. Thats an enormous number and standart part of 90% of all Guards T8. As there seems no change, both Crusaders lack behind. Easiest way to DPS are high DoubleAttack on our equipment, talking about Crusader only stuff. Next point is our hybrid damage model, we have spells and combat arts. As such, we need more stats to be as effective. On a Item with haste, we need fast cast, on combat art damage, we need also spell damage. Only to achive an 1:1 parity to Guardian.

Combat Arts, Spell Ratio: Paladins, arround 2/3 Combat Arts to 1/3 Spells, Shadowknight arround 2/3 Spells and 1/3 Combat Arts. That numerical how many abilties, not damage scources. For damage scources we are arround 40% Autoattack, while Guards are arround 60%.

Doublespell:

Doublespell, like on the wizard mythical, could be an DPS Option for Shadowknight.

Solo Gaming as an Paladin is a pain in the backside. No Stealth, no evac, no track, crappy Damage.

Combat Art Damage and Spell Damage, we need it not so much, but when, put both on an item (Paladin issue)

1.2. Attributes: We are the only subclass with different attribute requirements, Strenght, Agility, Stamina and Intelligence for Shadowknight and Strenght, Agility, Stamina, Intelligence and Wisdom for Paladin. If an Guardian Set hat +40 Strength, +40 Agility, +40 Stamina (120 Points), an Paladin would need +40 on all Attributes! Not 120 :5 for 24 on all Attributes. As long as there is no creative class solution, we pay dearly in the moment for the 4-5 Attribute system. So it would be nice to have equpment not hurting each others.

2. Defense:

With lack of Attributes, we have an Avoidance problem, as most of the time, we have lower agility. Both Crusader classes have no defensiv tools comparing to Guardian. From that point, we need Block, Parry, Riposte a lot. We need even a lot in Mitigation, since Guardian has damage reducing Debuffs, we are lacking. If this sounds as the "give all to us", look at Skills and Achivment, we are lacking a lot there.

Equipment with Double Attack reduction would be nice. Something like "-20% Damage if Attacks have double attack". DA is a real Crusader snuffer. Otherwise, you bring joy to us with block. As block compensates a lot, what warriors have build in.

As we lack the Mitigation and Avoidance Guards get easier then we. We must often tank in defensiv, which hast effect on the following.

3. Aggro

This is the field, were the Paladin shines with his abilties and he needs less. More DPS is wishful as an Aggro tool, but for Soloing as Raid DPS. But Shadowknights have the worst T8 Aggromanagment I've seen. So Crusader Equipment needs an split, with Stuff for Shadowknights to compensate their lack of Aggro tools. Alternative, would be to place the Shadowknight again on the top dps of the Plate Tanks. But that would be an change including spells/achivement. Try an mediocre equipped shadowknight. It's horrific.

For Aggro: Transfer % -> Aggro Increasing -> Taunts

Transfer is more flexible, it helps in Pickups a lot more, while the Tank gets not optimal buffs but buffs DD's at work.

4. Not wanted

There is a trend to make classes unique with their individual specialtys. Fine in thought. But Donation of Armament doesn't help with diminished return mitigation. So all increases to it, are useless. Healing for Paladin is nearly useless. We reduce our low damage even further, increasing fight time and mana consume solo, and risking aggro in Group play. Healing is interrupted by attacks. Thats why better defense/avoidance is better then self healing. Defense lower not your damage time and don't use your power and saves you automatically.

5. Wanted

Niche equipment with stats not aviable for warriors. Double Attack reducer, stun/stifle/fear immunities... 

Kite Shield as an Crusader (maybe Cleric) specialty. Good solution to make it Crusader(/Cleric) only and use it as an balacing tool. Also more diversity to shields. The pure number of aviable shields is rather low. A good T1 Raid shield, an mirror to Virtue Guard. Either you are on of the soon to be unlucky Green Dragon Shield users or you have to go for Rightous Barrier. Legendary is only the R2 shield nice to have.

6. Two handed weapons

Crusaders are the only melee class (priest except) without two weapon fighting. Which hurts DPS a lot. Warriors are the Kings, as the have Buckler +8% Riposte + 60% Double Attack on achivement. Which makes them two-weapon damage comparable + shield. Two weapons are using percentage skills like Double attack and crit better then a single weapon. Which is a reason why Assassins are in front of Rangers. So two handed weapons need an real boost. Hand out Twohanded weapons on test, Mastercrafted with different damage spreads, and ask for the parses including Stats. And I mean, going up to an spread from 150-600, 200-800, 250-1000 and 300-1200. I like to mention, in real live, two handed weapons make bloody mess against opponents using two weapons, reach and penetration I guess, most crusaders could live with an "one month set free of charge" for testing. An Subclass Set on Test with Crusader 2.0 Stats for life evalution as well.

Before you say "so much work to change stuff to Crusader spec". Think about an Talk with Domino on Tradeskill, about an legendary Adornment that can be used by Crusaders only and in addition to normal adornmend (so two adorns on one piece) for additional wisdom + intelligence. Could be the easier solution for the attribute problem.

I ask for addition and critic from other Crusaders.

[Fyreflyte]

You misspelled my name =(But thank you for the info. I'll keep this stuff in mind when designing new items for you guys (and gals). I'll keep an eye on the thread as well, so please add any additional thoughts or ideas you come up with =)

[slippery]

This is my shortlist from another post of mine, from a Shadowknight point of view.Itemization

1. My largest general itemization issue is stats used on gear for us. I'd like to see more focus on having 4 stats, Str, Sta, Agi, Int. Also, we need spell and melee stuff, that means instead of just +ca or +spell we need both. We also need both spell and melee crit. Some of this has admittedly started to get better lately, however I continue to see Wis instead of Int on crusader gear and it drives me mad. 2. The Seething Hatred effect on our Epic needs to be changed. As a hate increasing ability this is basically worthless. 3. Procs on Crusader items. This is something that has been getting better recently too, but Crusader items should proc on ANY successful attack, not just a successful attack. 4. Greaves of the Apathetic have a focus effect for Unholy Arms. This is a very nice self buff for us and the effect should be a really good one, however since procs cap at twice their base proc chance the pants effectively do not stack with our AA ability that increases the proc chance and 5% basically goes to waste. I would like to see the AA that increases the proc chance effectively increase the base proc chance so that the cap of the proc would be double what it is after the AA (basically it would cap at 26% chance to proc instead of 16% if you had 5 AA's in it).5. Spell and CA damage. We get way too much of it. We really don't take advantage of it much past a couple hundred, which we get with ease. I would by far rather see more melee/spell crit and melee double attack.

I have a few other concerns. The Mythical is still blah. If the Seething Hatred effect was changed to something useful all the time I would be happy. There are a lot of suggestions out there. The damage proc either needs to be quite a bit higher or it needs to be effected by int/base damage. Also we need at least +10 parry and it would be nice to either get some damage reduction or +5 block chance (I'd even settle for 10% shield effectiveness).

I've seen a lot of SK's ask for Spell Double Attack. PLEASE GOD DO NOT give us spell double attack. Coming from playing a Wizard who knows exactly how the spell double attack works, it would suck for an SK. With the current coding where it only doubles the first tick of dots, and the double is not effected by spell damage, spell double would do like nothing.

[gatrm]

My SK isn't at 80 just yet, but the biggest problem I have had is I have to choose whether to hold aggro or take the hit.  So I go offensive stance, ignore a lot of tank gear with +agi,  and can hold aggro pretty well.  The problem is I'm as fragile as a ranger.....and they can't take hits much better than a mage.

Adding int to the tank gear out there would be the simplest way to go, imo. There's a good deal of tank gear that has melee crit and/or da as well as parry, defense, or block (and of course agility).  Add intelligence to that stuff (leaving other stats as they are) and an SK will have much better chance at both taking a hit and holding aggro. 

Spell crits would be nice of course, and I like the idea of increasing the amount of hate from the AA group transfer - 3% doesn't seem like that much, but if I could use the good avoidance/mitigation stuff out there without losing int, it would fix my shadowknight's problems at any rate.

[DMIstar]

I agree with the above poster... 

All Around Gear, is nice, but it is something that is an extra type of gear to many... Crusaders on the other hand, are completly stuck with half stated gear ... It wouldnt be as a big concern, if this didnt stem through all our gear... our mid Tier and Group Sets are "all around gear" and litteraly break the class more then actually help the class out. 

a Wars set of Gear that has major Focus on STR/STA/AGI and has lets say overall 120 points to each stat for the suit is going to help them a huge Percentage better then The Crusaders all around stats varient, which is the same amount of points but spread between more stats .. STR/STA/AGI/INT/WIS, Which cripples the class. and openeing up wars set to be used to crusaders is not a solution.

A post to better visualize it would be this: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=422180

This is the latest post on this info, It was a repost a person did for the items forum of my original in the Class forum... (This info has been reitterated for months across several sections)

Now obviously its a stretch on War gear showing 40str 40sta 40agi.. meanwhile Crusader gear showing 40str 40sta 40agi 40int and 40wis ... But this is where it comes to actually balance this mess out.. Personally I would fix the crusader classes, SK and Pallies to use the same three stats as each other and go from there, instead of this mess.. but thats logical and we cant do that ...

Defense abilities was the next big thing.. Items with that, fail to have INT and WIS together for crusaders to use. so they are inadvertantly takeing nerf which is not needed on a small def gain. Personaly Me and many others (as have discussed in the class forum how many months ago ?) agree that these where implemented wrong in the first place... It would of been much better to see these allotted to the different tanks, to show of more diversity ... aka Shield Block would be a stat listed on Crusader gear... Deflect going to the monks, Parry going to the wars .. and so on. 

in any case there is loads of information regarding the itemization concerns and lack their off... You may have to actually dig a few pages back in areas though, Cause most that have tried voiceing this stuff out, have ditched the game due lack of fixes.  

[Maveric_LOL]

 Here are my suggestions for changes to the demonguard set the actual numbers and % of effects might need to be adjusted slighly to maintain balance (i.e. adding 70% of mitigation pledged (550 or so at Master I value off the top of my head which equates to like  550 * 0.75 = 412.5) shield protection value might be a bit much but in general this is the type of stuff i would like to see. Giving me a ability to reduce pledge of armament by 50% is 1. worthless in 90% of cases and 2. why should i have an effect on my set armor that makes it 50% easier for me to help other fighters due thier job better....if you want to make it reduce the penalty to 0% then we can talk. Likewise on the 2nd effect 5% group wide transfer is pretty much a waste on a paladin and if its aimed at SK could be better.

While we are on the subject, here are my suggestions for a change to the mythical. I know its already changed on test and while those changes are a step in the right direction in reguards to boosting dps they do nothing to help tanking ability. The following are my suggestions added to a screenshot of the current live mythical which i think if combined with the changes on test would go a long way.

+5 Shield Effectiveness : I think its only fair, if the majority of fighter classes are getting mythical with a blue avoid stat on there then cursaders on the whole (not just paladins) should also get a blue +avoid stat.

Increasing effectivness of divine aura to 70%: Take a look at the guardian mythical. By adding the removes shield restrictions effect to the guard mythical they have been allowed to now use tower/kite shields with thier higher protection values AND still get the chance to riposte/parry and additional 7% AND 60% double attack potentially while at it. That effect is so overpowered that it either needs to be removed, or the other fighter classes nee to have something of equal value added. Thats why i am suggesting the Divine Aura change effect.

That 50% cap has always made DA under powered when compared to tower of stone and dragon reflexes for example and has meant that its often not reliable as a means to mitigate extreme spike dmg. In additon the 10 min recast timer (9 with STR line) has just added to our inability to rely on it as much as guards can rely on say thier temp mitigation buffs and TOS which is on a 2 min recast.

Those are just my suggestions though which may not be worth much...

p.s. while your paying attention to crusaders for once, can you tell me why our level 58 Ancient Teachings spell Divine favor is not % based so it scales with level or hasnt been upgraded? To begin with its on a whopping 30 min recast timer which is totally insane...AND it still only heals for 1200. At level 58 that might have been a decent amount but at level 80 while raid buffed thats less than 5% of total health and it dosent deagro (altruisim at least fd's ya) so even when the thing procs you die from the next hit before your healers even have a chance to react..... just throwing it out there.

[Eifer]

No offence but your proposed changes are way over the top for a T1 set. Your asking for an insane amount of defense and parry on those items, especially considering its mainly 'stepping stone' gear until you get into the VP set stuff.Paladins especially get a better end of the deal in terms of avoidance from their AA so to put in those changes would just make them ridiculously OP compared to SK.I guess when Crusaders (more so Paladins it seems) can get over asking for stupid amounts of Block/Parry/Defense we may get some better items rolling out.The damage reduction on our epic is a reasonable balance for the lack of block. Adding a little Parry or Defense would be nice but certainly not needed. I would much prefer to see some items that will help push our defensive damage output up to compare with Warriors.About the only thing I would agree on is making the Mythical remove the 50% damage portion of Divine Aura.

[DMIstar]

Just want to add to my post.. Anything IN regards to the link I set up, Is in the View of an SK .. Pallies on the other hand are completly different are going to show up with wanting other stats for good reasons, Since Obviously Shadowknights and Pallies Share Very little in Itemizaiton is concerned .. Which still makes me wonder Why we have crusader gear in the first place.... 

In Any Event, I pretty much sold that this will not be addressed and pretty much the thread will be forgotten and tucked away pages behind... 

But I am Praying that, the new expansion either has ..... Turn in items to get gear piece aka like VP set for ALL class sets .. Group, Mid Tier and High Tier Raiding ... 

This way it wouldnt just be High End Raiding sks, havieng gear that actually Made for the Class.. and not a bandaid... 

Maybe make gear that has stats according to which class attunes it ? 

[Eifer]

Istar@Mistmoore wrote:

Just want to add to my post.. Anything IN regards to the link I set up, Is in the View of an SK .. Pallies on the other hand are completly different are going to show up with wanting other stats for good reasons, Since Obviously Shadowknights and Pallies Share Very little in Itemizaiton is concerned .. Which still makes me wonder Why we have crusader gear in the first place....

QFE... It's no good trying to make 'Crusader' gear unless the dependancy on Stats is changed.

[Wyvernblade]

From another Paladin

The boost to spell and healing from the Paladin Mythical and Fabled versions are not very useful.  For the most part, we will cap out with gear and the proc adds very little damage if any at all.  The boost from Fabled to Mythical is mostly wasted because the VP gear you get will give you a lot of spell damage.  Healing modifiers are not very useful because our heals get interrupted and are not easily used while tanking.

A more useful clicky would be nice too.  The Holy Avenger seems to get resisted more often not and currently I don't use it very often because it's resisted so easily.  Also, the benefit from casting it is very hard to see. 

Bonuses to base spell damage and combat art damage would help us vs adding CA/Spell damage which is a stat that we cap very easy on.

Bonuses to Donation of Armament doesn't help us really.  If we are going to be using it, we are going to be buffing another tank and in theory not taking any physical damage.  So, by giving a lesser penalty we're really not gaining anything from it.  Maybe if it completely removed the penalty we could use it on another tank while tanking adds for a tough encounter - Nexona/Druushk/Phara Dar come to mind.

Our AA's don't really help us in DPS or Tank ability.  We seem to have the least self buffs to Haste/DPS/Double Attack so we would need gear that is going to boost these things more than other classes.  Also, our Parry skill is terrible compared to warriors.  I know the Paladin Defense stance adds wisdom and defense but no other defensive ability.  Guardians get Parry on their defense stance plus a raid wide defense buff.  Just in terms of stats there's a big hole that we have to fill.  Currently my guild leader is way over cap on defense and has been looking for gear w/out it where I am a ways off.

We also have no debuffs on our arts.  We have a divine debuff on our encounter taunt and that's it. 

Also, we have some stuff that does extra damage vs undead.  I always thought it would be cool to either add more types of enemies or change it for certain encounters.  Maybe through AAs, maybe tie it to the Lore and Legend, hell add an additional damage bonus vs non undead that's lesser similar to what was done w/ the Goblin Bane procs.

[Maveric_LOL]

thats why i said, adjust the numbers...but something along that lines and honestly the parry/defence etc i added is on each piece less is for the most than on non set pieces which are easier to attain just by doing instances/T1/korsha/SoH. Right now as it stands i have absoloutly 0 reasons to equip any of that demonguard set save maybe the BP over any of the other fabeled/legendery set gear i have and i dont have the vp set i just have the fabeled out of instances/T1/Korsha/SOH and the mythical.

Classic example: Fabeled set gloves which i forgot to include  http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/735444039 vs Legendery set gloves http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-1003223275

Demonguard has slighly more mitigation 5 str, 6 sta more and some wiz. also has about 60 health more, tad higher resists.

As it stands right now: Demonguard has 38 more mit (about 42 or so roughly when taking into account the 1 level diff)...raid buffed im well over 6k mit usally so that means 0 to me really. 5 str means nothing to me, well over 1k str in raid 90% of the time, 6 sta when i when i have well over 800 sta in raid... 30 wiz is pretty much worthless also. The Legendery set though at least has +4 defence (thats at least SOME avoid) and 30 int dps and decent other stats and resists.

The effects might be a bit much, but consider how far behind guardians we are avoid wise even when talking t1 stuff its not that outlandish. Right now i have 70% solo avoid, our guard is sitting at about 77% solo avoid....we are wearing identical gear almost (save 2 items which add up to about 2% difference) and he can go higher if he wants to give up more dps... I am not speced agi line however even if i go that line (which is pretty much worthless 80% of the time) and max it out the increase is so small to be unnoticable as in raid i already have like 800+ agi easily....agi is base defence which means further increase to agi which is into deminishing returns and defence dont give that big a change at all any more.

We dont have 1. the temp mit buffs and 2. the extra avoid stuff...we need a boost like it or not.

[Oakum]

A curiosity question from a non crusader. I see statement that say you have power issues but then I see a statement that says you dont want wis which increases a Paladin's wis pool. I could see a SK (powerpool determined by str/int) want the int more then wis but it seems like a pally (power pool determined by str/wis) might want a bigger power pool too if they have the same issues with power use.

[Maveric_LOL]

cant say i have enough of a power issue....(in fact i dont really run out of power at all with perphaps the exception of 1 fight) that i would want more wiz on my gear...more wiz would probably mean giving up some of some other stat. With dirge/chanter in grp you have all the regen you need really.

[Xal]

The most priority for crusaders should be to reduce the needed stats to STR/STA/AGI/INT for Paladins. Then you could work on tuning the crusader equipment.1. Two handers for crusaders should have at least doubled up damage rating and doubled up stats on it. Currently two handers are more than worthless.2. The fabled and mythical epic lack of a second stat compared to brawlers and warriors. We only gain +10 slashing, while warriors gets +10 defense and brawlers get +10 deflection. So where is our +10 parry?3. Make some mage gear accessable for crusaders too. All symbols should be wearable by crusaders.This list far away from complete, but should give you an idea what we need.

[Pitt Hammerfi]

Oh god no power regen

[Jaxl]

Fyreflyte wrote:

You misspelled my name =(But thank you for the info. I'll keep this stuff in mind when designing new items for you guys (and gals). I'll keep an eye on the thread as well, so please add any additional thoughts or ideas you come up with =)

Seriously.. its spelled "Fyreflyteipooh"

[Faelgalad]

Fyreflyte wrote:

You misspelled my name =(But thank you for the info. I'll keep this stuff in mind when designing new items for you guys (and gals). I'll keep an eye on the thread as well, so please add any additional thoughts or ideas you come up with =)

Edited and corrected, take my appology, and thanks for looking into our itemisation problem. I've tried to combine equipment <-> with some class basics, to highlight were one flows into the other.

Not equipment, but an comparision of Achivement, as this is the foundation of many item stats as well. Also, to show, that heal crit is something we would take from Cleric equipment. Spell crit is high, as the Shadowknights depend more on it, I can't really say if more spell crit, fast cast, double spell or percentage damage increases help most. Fast cast is nice, as spells take some time, while little gnarly goblins attack and interrupt.

Crusader - Warrior, Achivement base

Offensive:  

Melee Crit: 22,4% / 22,4% (both max.)

Melee Crit temp:  - / 60% ten seconds

Haste: max. 17,6 / max. 17,6

Haste temp: 18+ / 23+

Spell Crit: 68% / -

Heal Crit: 56% / -

Hate Gain: 10,4% / 10,4%

Area Autoattack: 40% / 40%

Double Attack: - / 60%

DPS: - / 19,2

Defensive:

Riposte %:

Defense:

Parry:

Mitigation:

I will complete the list tomorow, it's quite deep in the night.

[Skua]

my main concer about my sk is the MIX OF STATS

sks and paladins (crusaders) need a LOT OF STATS 

STR STA INT WIS SPELL DMG  ("SPELL CRIT isnt bad , AAs made for it stilll) DA  Haste ect ect

yes TANK GEAR , DPS GEAR , still check Zerker set...now check SK set....

ah BUFF 2h DPS !!!!!!!

when i am using a 2h i feel GIMPED  , DW  = double stats , doble adornaments , doble procs , "doble dps" .....

2h mechanics needs a buff badly......needs to be on par with DW or make it for it .....

[Pitt Hammerfi]

Like i've said in the SK issue list

Were a jack of all trades master of none.

I would like to see Riposte on more of our items. It gives us buffs in 3 of our weakest areas

1. uncontested avoidance

2. DPS

3. Hate from dps

[Immuen]

Fighter Stats:  All use STR, STA, AGI as focus stats   Crusaders: need more; SKs INT, Paladins WIS and INTHonestly either remove the other needed stats from the crusaders or combine them into 1 stat like just INT.  *Currently it's being address as it's been stated many times.  For the 50 STR 50 STA 50 AGI = 150 total stat item.  The crusaders get a 30 STR 30 STA 30 AGI 30 WIS 30 INT = 150 stat item similarity.  In all means they are not balanced and the second item is a downgrade to the first item for simple fact of loss of 20 to STR/STA/AGI for 30WIS/INT.Side note:  Wasn't there a statement saying that crusaders would have a higher pool then the other fighter classes per a Dev?  IE:  Moorguard   Let alone if the 50 STR/STA/AGI item had just had 50 WIS/INT tacked on, it would make that a true statement. Fighter avoidance:  All fighters get def, mit, and a resist to their defense stance.   Except, warriors get +parry and brawlers get % deflect and + deflection.  Crusaders get +WIS (btw is worthless to SKs) and no extra avoidance.  It's safe to say that no crusader wants WIS to replace +parry or +Block.Fighter AAs:   Warriors and brawlers thru AAs have means to get Double attack, and avoidance other then Defense.  Crusaders have no means to get AAs to increase Double attack, parry, or riposte.  (FYI for those who refer to riposte so much, it's a counterattack done after a parry, and shouldn't be considered an avoidance check but it is for some reason)   You know scouts get Double attack and extra avoidance?  Which scouts should be better then fighters in melee skills but avoidance?***   Heck even Priests get double attack, avoidance upgrades even 100% melee crit.  When did a priest become better at combat then lets say a fighter in melee let alone a scout?http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Fervor

Cleric AA:   IMHO has crusader written all over it.  (Similar to Paladin Block Mastery which doesn't come with double attack)  SKs don't get Block Mastery.  I for would drop block mastery for this.  Better yet, call it Block Mastery and offer it to both crusaders, maybe AGI or WIS lines.  It would give both crusaders what they want Double attack and avoidance.  Again why is the priest plate class better at melee and avoidance then a fighter?

http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Severe_JudgementCleric AA:  100% melee crithttp://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Block_HarmShaman AA:   Again why is the priest class better at melee and avoidance then a fighter?http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Wild_FerocityDruid AA:  Double attack without a shield and yet a priest AA!Crusader abilities:

Armament spell line used to have no penalty.  It is silly imho that priests and conjurors can give mit to a group at no cost but crusaders to give it to a single target have to sacrifice their own mit.  Let alone the other fighters have temp mit buffs without penalty.

More focus, focus should be built in to crusaders to help with interrupts.  Spells for the most part crusader spells are on the same cast times of similar class abilities.  With being combat oriented class, cast timers should be half that of others classes ( IE: priest ) for being half the ability.  IE:  direct heal single target is 2 sec cast and 6 sec recast at 1k heal and 300 power for a cleric should 1 sec cast 3 sec recast at 500 heal 150 power for paladin IMHO.Where are the debuffs?*  This statement would effect alot classes but also would remove the need for alot gear by combining the casters stats (WIS/INT) into 1 stat.  Plus since 6 classes use plate, an item that was 50 STR/STA/AGI/INT would benefit all plate. ** **  Making things alittle more simplified.  +Spell damage, +healing , spell crits, heal crits all are forms of magic.  Why do Mages only need INT to impact their magic while priests and paladins need WIS to be the focus of their magic but to get an increase to the spell damage need INT?  It's a handicap ever since they changed it back in the day.  Make one stat that effects all forms of magic IMHO.  .  Making spell crits and heal crits just spell crit would make gear for all casters simplier.  Same with +heal and +spell.  Again IMHO. Kind of like Rangers who used melee gear till they became a ranged based class.  Silly they have to pick up all ranged items instead of it being simplified to being all melee equipment. ***  Scouts wear chain and in theory should have better avoidance then plate.  Then again why can't a plate hit 75% mit? Or why can warriors can hit +75% avoidance and crusaders can't?  Isn't avoidance tanking suppose to be a brawler ability?

[Eifer]

It is actually a shame that we have to try and acheive class balance through items because of problems with the way crusaders use stats.I am fairly new to the Paladin class but it has been know since the dawn of time that Crusaders struggle because of the way stats are used.The only solutions as I see it are give some crusader only adorns to add/modify existing stats. Or change the crusader dependancy on some many varied stats....

[Maveric_LOL]

Immuen wrote:

Fighter AAs:   Warriors and brawlers thru AAs have means to get Double attack, and avoidance other then Defense.  Crusaders have no means to get AAs to increase Double attack, parry, or riposte.  (FYI for those who refer to riposte so much, it's a counterattack done after a parry, and shouldn't be considered an avoidance check but it is for some reason)  

A riposte is a parry that redirects some or all of the damage back at the attacker. Riposte % increase though adds avoidance. A simple test to show this: get an un-adorned wrist item, open persona and look at avoidance and note.....then with window open apply a 2% or 3% riposte adorn to said bracer while it is still equiped, you will see avoidance go up. Its because %riposte increase not only increases the chances of a frontal parry being a riposte but it adds frontal parry. Read the effect on items with riposte etc for example the Elite Yah-Lei shock troops bracer or the previously mentioned adornments and it will say.....attacks in other quadrants have the same chance at being parried. Thats because riposte is frontal only and they are letting you know the parry component they added is good 360 degrees however the increased chance for parry to be a riposte is frontal only.

[Xanrn]

Brawlers get Double Attack from AA?I suggest you actually read the Str line.I mean if you want the Brawler Str line more power to you.But you complain about 2 handers, lets see what you think of rubbish dmg spread, completely statless, completely procless, can't adorn 2 handers.You can equip to 2 Mastercrafted t7+ weapons and loose 96% Double Attack but you will still do more dmg.I appreciate your trying to get your class looked at, but don't bring up the Brawler useless piece of crap teasing b!tch of a Str line.

[Phank]

Addressing Crusader items in the future is an awesome step in the right direction.  However, we have a few expansions under our belt where Crusader items are sub-par in comparison to other Fighters.  It may be my imagination but Kunark has been the worse yet.  Crusaders are really hurtin' this expansion which has driven more and SKs to either Betray or quit the game entirely.

Immuen's post above broke down the issues perfectly imo.  Therefore I will only hit bullet-points which I feel over the years of playing my SK have gotten progressively worse.

1. Overload of stats needed to keep up with the other Fighters.  If we could somehow combine the Spell Casting & Combat Arts into one bonus we might make it easier to itemize for the hybrids.  As it stands, when we hit a CA or Spell, we are feeding off an extra modifier compared to warriors/brawlers.

2. Defense, defense, defense.  Crusaders need more + defense, + riposte, + parry items exclusive to their class.  Not an adornment we have to go out and place as an afterthought, and not an item that is Fighters only.  Keep in mind, the Guardians and Berserkers will always get a Fighter item that has + defensive bonuses before a Crusader.

3. Double Attack!  I speak for myself here but as a fully Fabled SK w/ Mythical and VP set armor, I self buff around 20% DA.  That is sad indeed.  In group and with SoH Ring of Rage I hit 50% at best.  That is just not going to make the parse when other Fighters are near 100% DA.  This should be corrected with revamp of Crusader AA lines -- but that's another problem altogether.

4. DPS = Hate.  Seething Hatred is probably the biggest slap in the face to SKs that have suffered through Kunark.  Not only is it not passive, it is a proc that relies on the SK to be tanking (which never happens) and only converts lifetaps into hatred.  Can you say CONDITIONAL?!  I knew you could.

Shadowknights need a better hate gen other than 3% group and a Mythical proc that misdesigned.  Paladins are good in this department heh.

I have offered up a Mythical fix in other threads wherein the Effect would be turned into a Lifetap "Seething Anger" which increased DPS for 12 seconds which in turn would increase hate.

There are so many issues with Crusaders esp SKs atm that I hope something gets done before the next expansion.

[Caetrel]

To keep it simple:

Tanking>DPS>Heals>Utility

Main thing we want for tanking: Avoidance/ stoneskin abilities

Main thing we want for dps: anything that will buff our melee auto attack, which is half our parse with procs and our divine procs. 

Useless: more aggro tools, +CA/Spell,  healing nonsense.

TBH Paladins are fine and can tank anything, and throw up a parse close to most other fighters.  However, itemization makes us feel as though no one understands our class.  VP set, Epic Weapon prime examples.

I prolly appreciate healing more than the average raiding paladin, and I do heal and also heal when tanking.  What you need to understand is that healing for us is situational, there are times when we cannot/ will not do it.   Casting times/ interrupts/ memwipes and aggro all make heals the last buttons you wanna push.  Staying alive and dealing damage are always good.

[Caetrel]

Good gawd don't put a bunch of atts on gear and think that's a fix.  It's a weakness of the class that we need all these atts while others only need just 1-3.  AGI/ STA is always gonna be most preferred.  Health is always good.

Also want to add- spell crit is [Removed for Content] useless!  We already have enough.  Melee crit/ DA/ dps mod/ haste as has been said. 

[FireDragon]

Fyreflyte wrote:

But thank you for the info. I'll keep this stuff in mind when designing new items for you guys (and gals). I'll keep an eye on the thread as well, so please add any additional thoughts or ideas you come up with =)

Could I also bring your attention to this thread? ;

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=423915

Its concerning two handers.  In essence, they underperform.  In any realistic setting, two handed weapons should do more damage than two weapons.  And this is also integral to crusaders, as we cant dual wield.  And really. we shouldnt have to / want to.

Really, there is a reason you cut down a tree with a big two handed axe, and not two little handaxes.

Please change two handed weapons to be the kings of damage they really should be, or equal to 2 weapons.  Maybe make a crusader-only two hander of each type for each tier and sprinkle some in as drops/quest rewards for all tiers, if you are worried.  but I think Berzerkers should want to use two handers too and should be able to DPS with them.

You didnt see Conan or a Viking run at you with two daggers or little swords. they ran at you with a giant axe or sword or hammer.

Anyway, i digress.. thank you for looking into Crusaders =)

[therodge]

well as far as two handers go i did the math once along time ago and a tope end LEGENDARY two hander would have to be around a 160-170 rating (assuming a decent spread at 6 seconds of course) while fabled would be looking at 190-200ish. (like vpish fabled)

my dream 2 hander and lets pretend it drops off Uberest_mob_in_game_01

Fiery Avenger (rofl had to do it)

100str 75sta 75agi 100int

1-3000 (200 dr.)

delay 15 seconds

proc Fiery votex of ultimate crusader doom

on any succsesfull attack this spell will cast feiry vortex of ultimate crusader doom this will trigger an average of 1.0 times a minute lasts for 15 second

increases double attack by 10

increases spell double attack and ca by 10

increases melee crit chance by 10

lowers mobs divine and desease resistance by 4321

increases power by 300

increases chance to riptose of a parry by 100% (aka not a % of avoidance simply an offensive chance to riptose every time u parry)

that being said, i know this will never happen as the weopon i just decribed would be to uber to look at and i would cry myself to sleep every night knowing i will never get it.

[Nazani]

Immuen wrote:

Fighter avoidance:  All fighters get def, mit, and a resist to their defense stance.   Except, warriors get +parry and brawlers get % deflect and + deflection.  Crusaders get +WIS (btw is worthless to SKs) and no extra avoidance.  It's safe to say that no crusader wants WIS to replace +parry or +Block.Fighter AAs:

Well, we are holy warriors, so, we should gain avoidance-defense based in wis (Pally) and int (SK), (Our gods protect us). It could be implemented in buffs like pallies' Bayle's Leadership (+Wis, +heal +2-3% total wis in defense). This way fyreflyt won't have to change tons of items. So we can still lf items focused for crusaders and with str sta wis, or str sta int, .

[Nazani]

Remember that most of our spells have long cast times, (That is the reason why pallies cant heal or ward himselves if MTing for not to lost agro with seconds doing nothing) and most of spells can only be casted stopped. So any item that reduced casting time will be great, and any change in spells, making them like CAs, will be great. A warrior can cast all in movement, and very fast, we cant do the same. Another disventage.