A way to encourage grouping

Azekah1 · 07-21-2008, 07:15 PM

Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game.

Oh · 07-21-2008, 07:19 PM

Azekah1 wrote:

Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.

I agree this simple change would help a bit more on grouping. Although to be honest getting to max ap's isn't that hard doing quests, but like you pointed out getting groups together is the issue at hand.

Also the problem I have with AP's on named is it's a one time hit. This doesn't really encourage grouping either other then to wack a mole once and then never see that instance again cause you already got all of the discovery and named xp from it.

Nole · 07-21-2008, 07:39 PM

Giving AA from quests killing nameds first time encourages forms of gameplay other than grinding. It looks like what you're actually proposing would do little but encourage more grinding.

The lack of groups at many levels is simply there because people tend to level too quickly to be around much or care what gear they wear. Unfortunately with the mentality of a large part of the player base, this will not change, since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game.

Oh · 07-21-2008, 07:43 PM

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game.

QFE/QFT This is SOO true it isn't even funny. I think some of the other MMO's out there help cement this mentality, and the other half is cemented in to the premis I only want to raid cause there is nothing to do at level cap. SMILEY

Azekah1 · 07-21-2008, 07:44 PM

Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.

Nole · 07-21-2008, 07:54 PM

Ohiv wrote:

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:
since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game.
QFE/QFT This is SOO true it isn't even funny. I think some of the other MMO's out there help cement this mentality, and the other half is cemented in to the premis I only want to raid cause there is nothing to do at level cap.

Well, Blizzard is certainly like that. Some time ago when faced with the problem that people found levelling their 5th alt up so they could "play the real game" at max level boring wasn't to revamp some old zones or add bits of new content to make the experience different. Instead they just required 20% less exp per level and massively raised quest exp gains. To be fair though, in WoW, the bulk of exp from doing a quest comes from mob kills. I mean, some quests really just exist to trick you into grinding until you get the stupid rare drop updates. One of the things that I really loved comming to this game is that a vast majority of quests give updates on 100% of kills. I can see a fair number of quests that don't and they really need to do something about those. There's nothing worse than being unlucky while trying to do one of those and having to kill dozens of things for a handful of updates.

Nole · 07-21-2008, 07:56 PM

Azekah1 wrote:

Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.

Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't.

Azekah1 · 07-21-2008, 08:00 PM

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Azekah1 wrote:
Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.
Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't.

Are you saying questing is harder than grouping? You could make an argument about which is harder, but theres no way its a difference on par with epics vs heroics.Similar diffculty levels should give similar rewards. Grp rewards do not compare to quest rewards.

Nole · 07-21-2008, 08:14 PM

Azekah1 wrote:

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:
Azekah1 wrote:
Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.
Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't.
Are you saying questing is harder than grouping? You could make an argument about which is harder, but theres no way its a difference on par with epics vs heroics.Similar diffculty levels should give similar rewards. Grp rewards do not compare to quest rewards.

Of course it is. Grinding is boring and repetitive. There's nothing particularly hard about it. Doing all the quests in an area, particularly if you don't go to spoiler sites for every one and don't skip the hard quests is much harder (or in some cases more annoying... ugh, placeholders).

Azekah1 · 07-21-2008, 08:48 PM

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Of course it is. Grinding is boring and repetitive. There's nothing particularly hard about it.

I could say the same thing about questing at times.Especially when at least 50% of all quests are grinding mobs.

Gromph · 07-21-2008, 09:03 PM

Azekah1 wrote:

Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.

There are players who simply enjoy solo play and/or boxing, and ruining (to some degree) their play is not going to make it easier for you to find a group. The only thing you might achieve is to damage funding for the game.

Players that enjoy group play will form groups and play even if that is not the most optimal.

Players that prefer soloing/boxing will rather look for another game than be forced to group.

For those how don't care and only want the fastest progress to lvl cap (for instance raiders) a slight adjustment in xp gain is probably the easiest way to make them more prone to grouping or solo play.

I assume that you speak out of your own difficulty to find groups (and not from a desire to control others game play). I know that a number of people don't have any problems with grouping. Try forming a group yourself, and keep a record of previous group members who you contact when forming a group. That should be sufficient.

Valsehna · 07-21-2008, 09:34 PM

I will bet that if you think about your original idea a bit more, you will be able to come up with better ones.

This one tends toward the forcing gameplay styles on people to make them do what you want.

Here are some to think about.

What if:

For full groups that remain in close proximity to each other while questing/grinding:

--Full groups always recieve a bonus to experience, everywhere.

--Full groups have a greater chance of chest drops at of at least treasured and better.

--Full groups have access to the use of a specific set of "Band of Adventurers" spells/combat arts (perhaps a nice nuke, buffs, or debuffs)

--Full groups receive benefit of reduced death debt.

--Full groups automatically have their re-use timers reduced.

Those are just a few. Maybe you can think of some more, that really encourage, rather than punish solo or duo play.

Skua · 07-21-2008, 09:37 PM

cant agree more !!!!

is so hard to find groups nowadays.....

Dasein · 07-21-2008, 09:55 PM

I think the best way to encourage grouping is to create some solid heroic quest lines - none of the overly annoying camps like you had in the Claymore line, or any of the bait and switch stuff that ends in an uber raid, but a quest line that is heroic from start to finish. The hat quest from KoS is a good example. It was a fairly long quest that required gouping for the most part, and had a worthwhile reward for all classes.

Huggles_of_Doom · 07-21-2008, 10:13 PM

The biggest hindrance to grouping right now is the min/max approach taken by the players. If someone's not the "ideal," then they don't bother to even try. They're afraid of being creative and risking their time on learning and discovery, and then they complain they can't find a group (when what they mean is "I can't find Class X so forget it&quot SMILEY . This limits my sympathies greatly.

Zarador · 07-21-2008, 10:47 PM

The lack of a desire to group is a reflection that relates to this post. People, for some reason, believe that everything in the game needs some direct form of a tangable reward. Complain about not getting groups, while only seeking groups that offer a particular reward that can't be done solo. What ever happened to grouping because it's an enjoyable form of fun? Many players that I know do just that and are seldom spending hours as some claim looking for groups.It's called establishing ingame relationships (friends) that you log in and have fun with. The destination (in many cases level cap) is a short dead end trip for many players. Yes, perhaps you can blow through an entire zone and do every quest by yourself and move on till your ready to hit the dungeons, then look for a group. But why? We don't need a carrot on a stick to make us do everything in a game. We just need a small band of friends or a good Guild to enjoy all the content with.

Cambi · 07-22-2008, 12:19 AM

Azekah1 wrote:

Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.

No kidding.I love grinding, and I am sick and tired of every MMO coming out and acting like grinding is a horrible thing.I find quest grinding 100 times more painful. It generally involves a lot of stupid running back and forth in a UPS Delivery Man's brown suit.

greenmantle · 07-22-2008, 12:39 AM

Azekah1 wrote:

Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game.

Grouping wont make a come back till people are willing to think about others. Doing my epic time and time again i would help people with theirs to be told oh sorry out of time perhaps tomorrow. Happened with piles of other quests as well.

So i now 2 box a swashie and a warden i go to where i want kill what i want , i dont wait round for a bunch of strangers to get thier act together, go have a smoke , fix their vent, run to the shop for mom, let the dog out opps out of time bye darn ok looking for group again.

When i group with guildies and friends heck i dont care where i go i do it for the fun and to help people i like, a pug i want to get a job done and to be honest finding 5 peoplewith half a brain that can get organised to go some where and get what each person needs done is rare as a master drop of a trash mob. Changing rules wont make people less selfish or suddenly capable of more than a 60 second attention span.

meleequirr · 07-22-2008, 03:08 AM

Well along the lines of small amounts of AA per heroic mob, My thoughts lean towards giving small amounts of Status per heroic mob... Quest = AA Group = Status... With hopefully an equal desire to do both (provided they work on status purchasable items).

Nole · 07-22-2008, 04:22 AM

Huggles_of_Doom wrote:

The biggest hindrance to grouping right now is the min/max approach taken by the players. If someone's not the "ideal," then they don't bother to even try. They're afraid of being creative and risking their time on learning and discovery, and then they complain they can't find a group (when what they mean is "I can't find Class X so forget it". This limits my sympathies greatly.

Yeah... someone on my server is starting a new "casual" raiding guild, yet in his recruitment posts he specifies exactly what classes he's looking for. I'm wondering if he knows what the word casual means. I've not seen this be so much of an issue for lower level groups, but I suspect this would be fairly common in Kunark where the group content is genuinely hard compared to the old world.

Zarador · 07-22-2008, 11:39 AM

greenmantle wrote:

Azekah1 wrote:
Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game.
Grouping wont make a come back till people are willing to think about others. Doing my epic time and time again i would help people with theirs to be told oh sorry out of time perhaps tomorrow. Happened with piles of other quests as well.
So i now 2 box a swashie and a warden i go to where i want kill what i want , i dont wait round for a bunch of strangers to get thier act together, go have a smoke , fix their vent, run to the shop for mom, let the dog out opps out of time bye darn ok looking for group again.
When i group with guildies and friends heck i dont care where i go i do it for the fun and to help people i like, a pug i want to get a job done and to be honest finding 5 peoplewith half a brain that can get organised to go some where and get what each person needs done is rare as a master drop of a trash mob. Changing rules wont make people less selfish or suddenly capable of more than a 60 second attention span.

I see someone else has it right!A regular group of friends and even a Guild can make for some fun times and memories even if the encounters are routine. Then again I been in those "Awesome" pick up groups where you wipe through an entire zone doing almost nothing but getting "rewards" as the guy three boxing runs the whole show (snores) where everything but some fun is accomplished.So many groups are so focused on only the sole goal of the encounter that they forget to have fun along the way. Other groups are so focused on anything but the goal that they get caught up in personal chats that make you want to die to the mob for relief. The above poster hit it on the head though. RoK is a great example of where the mindset today in grouping fails so often. Most players don't wish to engage in any activity that they feel they can easily accomplish themselves. It's a fact that your going to hit level cap eventually if you play enough. So maybe you join up with that group doing routine faction quests and kills and chill out for a while or help the group working on some easy quests that they need for some quest line their involved in. Maybe, just maybe the real gain in all that is you meet some new people that play well who you enjoy being around and BAM, you have a shot of groups more often. Others complain that so many members in Guilds are in cliques. Exactly how is it that the guy from California met up with the players from England and now group with the person from Iowa and Canada all the time? I would venture to say that at some point it started with some groups and they realized they could depend on eachother for a good time in the game. Problem is, their not posting here very often because when they log in, they have plans and a steady group. It's the people looking for a Warden with such and such gear and a Tank (SK's need not apply) for the third instance in the second part of the zone to kill Mob X" that complain most often that no one groups anymore and how they spend hours doing nothing.I have seldom in my many years of playing online games missed out on an opportunity to group. That's because in most cases I make that ooportunity happen. I show up in a popular zone, walk up to people doing things and ask if I may join them offering to even mentor if needed. The real key is I OFFER TO JOIN THEM, NOT CHANGE THIER PLANS.

I don't ask about the loot rights. If their a decent group, looting will be fair; if their not, nothing will change that.
I don't mention I have a level 10 enchanter that could use the level 71 drops if no one wants them.
I don't suggest we all leave here and go where I want to go.
I don't crtique their class or gear, even if it's a low level group and I have a high level character of that class.
I don't start trahing the game to bring about lively conversation. Obviously, were all online now, so we must be either enjoying the game or incredibly foolish to waste our time.
I don't get involved in Guild Politics. Who knows who is an alternate of whom and in what Guild.
I don't ignore the group to involve myself in some major debate in the chat channels.
I don't involve myself in some "Major Guild Issues"; if I'm that important to the Guild, then I should be working with the Guild and not this group.

Yimway · 07-22-2008, 11:52 AM

How to encourage grouping?1. Tripple heroic xp.2. Make named kill aa repeatable.3. LDON - Add merchant camps with 'quests' to do different instances / dungeon kills that give token rewards that you can save up to eventually purchase special adornments and gear. We don't need immediate reward, but if I do some instance 30x with a group, there could be some specialized gear I could purchace with my 'tokens' to make all that grouping / grinding worth while. I personally would lobby that you should take the fabled drops off of instances and move them to a purchase merchant like this.I'd add quicker transportation from the 'mercanary camp' to the various instances / dungeons. In fact one camp could serve all levels, it just hands you a 'task' that is level appropriate. Make the 'task' shared by the group. etc.4. Heroic Quest lines - There is an awesome quest line for chardok with great legendary rewards, but it is STUPID hard to get on to the quest, and nearly impossible to work with adhoc groups as your almost never going to even find another player that is on the quests (cause you have to do an obscure collection to get the starter), and if you manige the miracle of finding someone on it, they'll never be on the same step. This quest line needs to be immediately moved to an NPC at zone in.

Killerbee3000 · 07-22-2008, 12:11 PM

the problems with grouping as I see them:

1st:lets face it, you can be afk in qh, soloing in kp or raiding vp and talk with people, so why group to talk with people? no need for it. To say it differently, since social interaction can happen anywhere its no incentive to group.

2nd: another groupkiller are questlines, you simply wont find enough on the same step, going back and getting someone caught up is pointless as they will just bail once they got their stuff.

3rd, the game is so easy that 2, 3, 4 or even 6 boxing is possible without trouble, no, I'm not talking about botting, I'm talking about actually playing the toons, the game is literally so easy that it can be done, so why group? why deal with people who do random afks? why risk ending up with a noob? just do it yourself and you get to keep the loot as well.

4th: exp. solo questing gives better exp than grouping.

FireDragon · 07-22-2008, 12:31 PM

A 'dungeon questline' for each dungeon would be a very good thing to do I think.

Upon entering the dungeon, you get the quest (and if you dont have it, every time you enter) this would award AA at each segment of the quest, while leading you throguh each dungeon while telling you its story.

ShashLigai · 07-22-2008, 12:31 PM

people that want to group, do. there's no reason to change the game to encourage grouping. just try it once and you'll be hooked. omg, group just once with a bard or dirge and you'll never want to leave home without one. each of the classes bring specific benefits to the group. if a cetain line of quests are inconvenient for a group to complete, then try a different line. or sacrifice a little of your time for the sake of someone else. its all part of the game.

if you want to encourage grouping, then start a group.

Beldin_ · 07-22-2008, 12:40 PM

Killerbee3000 wrote:

2nd: another groupkiller are questlines, you simply wont find enough on the same step, going back and getting someone caught up is pointless as they will just bail once they got their stuff.

Yeah, they should maybe change questlines to not beeing so linear, so that you can maybe jump in and start with any quest of the line, but only for the final step you need to finish all steps. I really hated it when i never get further into the Claymore line, because every day you had again persons in the group that again needed the last 2 steps

Brinelan · 07-22-2008, 01:49 PM

I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time.

It is a game, and games are meant to be fun.

Azekah1 · 07-22-2008, 01:58 PM

Brinelan@Guk wrote:

I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time.
It is a game, and games are meant to be fun.

Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again.

Zarador · 07-22-2008, 04:02 PM

Azekah1 wrote:

Brinelan@Guk wrote:
I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time.
It is a game, and games are meant to be fun.
Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again.

Fun = kicking back and doing stuff because your enjoying what you are doing, regardless of the rewards.Work = Getting it done as fast as you can for as much pay as you can get. So increase the "pay" and people will be willing to group? Obviously, it's clear that those people don't find "fun" in grouping if it requires a pay boost to get them out there to group.You could almost link this post to the one complaining about there being so few live events. There are most likely so few live events run by the Guides because people never seemed to appreciate getting some fluff rewards for all the "Hard Work" they feel they put in. It's not work people, we should be here to have fun.

Azekah1 · 07-22-2008, 04:12 PM

Zarador wrote:

Azekah1 wrote:
Brinelan@Guk wrote:
I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time.
It is a game, and games are meant to be fun.
Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again.
Fun = kicking back and doing stuff because your enjoying what you are doing, regardless of the rewards.Work = Getting it done as fast as you can for as much pay as you can get. So increase the "pay" and people will be willing to group? Obviously, it's clear that those people don't find "fun" in grouping if it requires a pay boost to get them out there to group.You could almost link this post to the one complaining about there being so few live events. There are most likely so few live events run by the Guides because people never seemed to appreciate getting some fluff rewards for all the "Hard Work" they feel they put in. It's not work people, we should be here to have fun.

Some people enjoy bettering their character.

07-21-2008, 07:19 PM	#2
Oh General Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,516	Azekah1 wrote: Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA. I agree this simple change would help a bit more on grouping. Although to be honest getting to max ap's isn't that hard doing quests, but like you pointed out getting groups together is the issue at hand. Also the problem I have with AP's on named is it's a one time hit. This doesn't really encourage grouping either other then to wack a mole once and then never see that instance again cause you already got all of the discovery and named xp from it. __________________

07-21-2008, 07:43 PM	#4
Oh General Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,516	Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote: since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game. QFE/QFT This is SOO true it isn't even funny. I think some of the other MMO's out there help cement this mentality, and the other half is cemented in to the premis I only want to raid cause there is nothing to do at level cap. __________________

07-21-2008, 07:54 PM	#6
Nole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Ohiv wrote: Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote: since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game. QFE/QFT This is SOO true it isn't even funny. I think some of the other MMO's out there help cement this mentality, and the other half is cemented in to the premis I only want to raid cause there is nothing to do at level cap. Well, Blizzard is certainly like that. Some time ago when faced with the problem that people found levelling their 5th alt up so they could "play the real game" at max level boring wasn't to revamp some old zones or add bits of new content to make the experience different. Instead they just required 20% less exp per level and massively raised quest exp gains. To be fair though, in WoW, the bulk of exp from doing a quest comes from mob kills. I mean, some quests really just exist to trick you into grinding until you get the stupid rare drop updates. One of the things that I really loved comming to this game is that a vast majority of quests give updates on 100% of kills. I can see a fair number of quests that don't and they really need to do something about those. There's nothing worse than being unlucky while trying to do one of those and having to kill dozens of things for a handful of updates.

07-21-2008, 07:56 PM	#7
Nole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Azekah1 wrote: Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group. Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't.

07-21-2008, 08:00 PM	#8
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote: Azekah1 wrote: Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group. Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't. Are you saying questing is harder than grouping? You could make an argument about which is harder, but theres no way its a difference on par with epics vs heroics.Similar diffculty levels should give similar rewards. Grp rewards do not compare to quest rewards.

07-21-2008, 07:15 PM	#1
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game.

07-21-2008, 07:39 PM	#3
Nole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Giving AA from quests killing nameds first time encourages forms of gameplay other than grinding. It looks like what you're actually proposing would do little but encourage more grinding. The lack of groups at many levels is simply there because people tend to level too quickly to be around much or care what gear they wear. Unfortunately with the mentality of a large part of the player base, this will not change, since most people seem to want to rush to the level cap then complain that there's nothing to do in the game.

07-21-2008, 07:44 PM	#5
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group.

07-21-2008, 08:14 PM	#9
Nole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Azekah1 wrote: Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote: Azekah1 wrote: Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group. Well, would you support getting raid-quality loot from other sources? Seems every playstyle gets something others don't. Are you saying questing is harder than grouping? You could make an argument about which is harder, but theres no way its a difference on par with epics vs heroics.Similar diffculty levels should give similar rewards. Grp rewards do not compare to quest rewards. Of course it is. Grinding is boring and repetitive. There's nothing particularly hard about it. Doing all the quests in an area, particularly if you don't go to spoiler sites for every one and don't skip the hard quests is much harder (or in some cases more annoying... ugh, placeholders).

07-21-2008, 08:48 PM	#10
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote: Of course it is. Grinding is boring and repetitive. There's nothing particularly hard about it. I could say the same thing about questing at times.Especially when at least 50% of all quests are grinding mobs.

07-21-2008, 09:03 PM	#11
Gromph Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 141	Azekah1 wrote: Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA. There are players who simply enjoy solo play and/or boxing, and ruining (to some degree) their play is not going to make it easier for you to find a group. The only thing you might achieve is to damage funding for the game. Players that enjoy group play will form groups and play even if that is not the most optimal. Players that prefer soloing/boxing will rather look for another game than be forced to group. For those how don't care and only want the fastest progress to lvl cap (for instance raiders) a slight adjustment in xp gain is probably the easiest way to make them more prone to grouping or solo play. I assume that you speak out of your own difficulty to find groups (and not from a desire to control others game play). I know that a number of people don't have any problems with grouping. Try forming a group yourself, and keep a record of previous group members who you contact when forming a group. That should be sufficient.

07-21-2008, 09:34 PM	#12
Valsehna Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: House Velahr Rank: Senior Officer - Rhystall Council Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 228	I will bet that if you think about your original idea a bit more, you will be able to come up with better ones. This one tends toward the forcing gameplay styles on people to make them do what you want. Here are some to think about. What if: For full groups that remain in close proximity to each other while questing/grinding: --Full groups always recieve a bonus to experience, everywhere. --Full groups have a greater chance of chest drops at of at least treasured and better. --Full groups have access to the use of a specific set of "Band of Adventurers" spells/combat arts (perhaps a nice nuke, buffs, or debuffs) --Full groups receive benefit of reduced death debt. --Full groups automatically have their re-use timers reduced. Those are just a few. Maybe you can think of some more, that really encourage, rather than punish solo or duo play.

07-21-2008, 09:37 PM	#13
Skua General Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 660	cant agree more !!!! is so hard to find groups nowadays..... __________________ English isnt my 1 language !!!! My spelling sux i know

07-21-2008, 09:55 PM	#14
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	I think the best way to encourage grouping is to create some solid heroic quest lines - none of the overly annoying camps like you had in the Claymore line, or any of the bait and switch stuff that ends in an uber raid, but a quest line that is heroic from start to finish. The hat quest from KoS is a good example. It was a fairly long quest that required gouping for the most part, and had a worthwhile reward for all classes. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

07-21-2008, 10:13 PM	#15
Huggles_of_Doom Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1	The biggest hindrance to grouping right now is the min/max approach taken by the players. If someone's not the "ideal," then they don't bother to even try. They're afraid of being creative and risking their time on learning and discovery, and then they complain they can't find a group (when what they mean is "I can't find Class X so forget it&quot. This limits my sympathies greatly. __________________

07-21-2008, 10:47 PM	#16
Zarador Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,194	The lack of a desire to group is a reflection that relates to this post. People, for some reason, believe that everything in the game needs some direct form of a tangable reward. Complain about not getting groups, while only seeking groups that offer a particular reward that can't be done solo. What ever happened to grouping because it's an enjoyable form of fun? Many players that I know do just that and are seldom spending hours as some claim looking for groups.It's called establishing ingame relationships (friends) that you log in and have fun with. The destination (in many cases level cap) is a short dead end trip for many players. Yes, perhaps you can blow through an entire zone and do every quest by yourself and move on till your ready to hit the dungeons, then look for a group. But why? We don't need a carrot on a stick to make us do everything in a game. We just need a small band of friends or a good Guild to enjoy all the content with.

07-22-2008, 12:19 AM	#17
Cambi General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 81	Azekah1 wrote: Back in the day grinding was what the cool kids did.I'm not saying take anything away from the current system, I'm saying add the option to grind if you want to and still get AA.Why should questers be the only ones getting it?Options are always a good thing. Sometimes I get tired of questing...and theres nothing like clearing a dungeon with a good group. No kidding.I love grinding, and I am sick and tired of every MMO coming out and acting like grinding is a horrible thing.I find quest grinding 100 times more painful. It generally involves a lot of stupid running back and forth in a UPS Delivery Man's brown suit.

07-22-2008, 12:39 AM	#18
greenmantle Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 769	Azekah1 wrote: Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game. Grouping wont make a come back till people are willing to think about others. Doing my epic time and time again i would help people with theirs to be told oh sorry out of time perhaps tomorrow. Happened with piles of other quests as well. So i now 2 box a swashie and a warden i go to where i want kill what i want , i dont wait round for a bunch of strangers to get thier act together, go have a smoke , fix their vent, run to the shop for mom, let the dog out opps out of time bye darn ok looking for group again. When i group with guildies and friends heck i dont care where i go i do it for the fun and to help people i like, a pug i want to get a job done and to be honest finding 5 peoplewith half a brain that can get organised to go some where and get what each person needs done is rare as a master drop of a trash mob. Changing rules wont make people less selfish or suddenly capable of more than a 60 second attention span.

07-22-2008, 03:08 AM	#19
meleequirr General Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1	Well along the lines of small amounts of AA per heroic mob, My thoughts lean towards giving small amounts of Status per heroic mob... Quest = AA Group = Status... With hopefully an equal desire to do both (provided they work on status purchasable items).

07-22-2008, 04:22 AM	#20
Nole Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 222	Huggles_of_Doom wrote: The biggest hindrance to grouping right now is the min/max approach taken by the players. If someone's not the "ideal," then they don't bother to even try. They're afraid of being creative and risking their time on learning and discovery, and then they complain they can't find a group (when what they mean is "I can't find Class X so forget it". This limits my sympathies greatly. Yeah... someone on my server is starting a new "casual" raiding guild, yet in his recruitment posts he specifies exactly what classes he's looking for. I'm wondering if he knows what the word casual means. I've not seen this be so much of an issue for lower level groups, but I suspect this would be fairly common in Kunark where the group content is genuinely hard compared to the old world.

07-22-2008, 11:39 AM	#21
Zarador Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,194	greenmantle wrote: Azekah1 wrote: Make heroic mobs give a small amount of AA.AA has pretty much destroyed grouping. If doing a quest to kill 10 solo mobs gives AA, why not let heroic mobs give some.Grouping will never come back strong when soloing rewards way outpace grouping rewards. Especially with the work/patience it requires to get a group and work together. AA from named just doesn't cut it when compared to questing.I would also suggest making heroics tougher. With MC gear, adept III's, and AA's heroics hardly offer a challenge. Soloing or duoing heroics should be near impossible, unless very green. This will prevent ppl just going around soloing/2boxing heroics for AA.Neway, would require some work and setup to make it work properly, but I think it could help bring grouping back to this game. Grouping wont make a come back till people are willing to think about others. Doing my epic time and time again i would help people with theirs to be told oh sorry out of time perhaps tomorrow. Happened with piles of other quests as well. So i now 2 box a swashie and a warden i go to where i want kill what i want , i dont wait round for a bunch of strangers to get thier act together, go have a smoke , fix their vent, run to the shop for mom, let the dog out opps out of time bye darn ok looking for group again. When i group with guildies and friends heck i dont care where i go i do it for the fun and to help people i like, a pug i want to get a job done and to be honest finding 5 peoplewith half a brain that can get organised to go some where and get what each person needs done is rare as a master drop of a trash mob. Changing rules wont make people less selfish or suddenly capable of more than a 60 second attention span. I see someone else has it right!A regular group of friends and even a Guild can make for some fun times and memories even if the encounters are routine. Then again I been in those "Awesome" pick up groups where you wipe through an entire zone doing almost nothing but getting "rewards" as the guy three boxing runs the whole show (snores) where everything but some fun is accomplished.So many groups are so focused on only the sole goal of the encounter that they forget to have fun along the way. Other groups are so focused on anything but the goal that they get caught up in personal chats that make you want to die to the mob for relief. The above poster hit it on the head though. RoK is a great example of where the mindset today in grouping fails so often. Most players don't wish to engage in any activity that they feel they can easily accomplish themselves. It's a fact that your going to hit level cap eventually if you play enough. So maybe you join up with that group doing routine faction quests and kills and chill out for a while or help the group working on some easy quests that they need for some quest line their involved in. Maybe, just maybe the real gain in all that is you meet some new people that play well who you enjoy being around and BAM, you have a shot of groups more often. Others complain that so many members in Guilds are in cliques. Exactly how is it that the guy from California met up with the players from England and now group with the person from Iowa and Canada all the time? I would venture to say that at some point it started with some groups and they realized they could depend on eachother for a good time in the game. Problem is, their not posting here very often because when they log in, they have plans and a steady group. It's the people looking for a Warden with such and such gear and a Tank (SK's need not apply) for the third instance in the second part of the zone to kill Mob X" that complain most often that no one groups anymore and how they spend hours doing nothing.I have seldom in my many years of playing online games missed out on an opportunity to group. That's because in most cases I make that ooportunity happen. I show up in a popular zone, walk up to people doing things and ask if I may join them offering to even mentor if needed. The real key is I OFFER TO JOIN THEM, NOT CHANGE THIER PLANS. I don't ask about the loot rights. If their a decent group, looting will be fair; if their not, nothing will change that. I don't mention I have a level 10 enchanter that could use the level 71 drops if no one wants them. I don't suggest we all leave here and go where I want to go. I don't crtique their class or gear, even if it's a low level group and I have a high level character of that class. I don't start trahing the game to bring about lively conversation. Obviously, were all online now, so we must be either enjoying the game or incredibly foolish to waste our time. I don't get involved in Guild Politics. Who knows who is an alternate of whom and in what Guild. I don't ignore the group to involve myself in some major debate in the chat channels. I don't involve myself in some "Major Guild Issues"; if I'm that important to the Guild, then I should be working with the Guild and not this group.

07-22-2008, 11:52 AM	#22
Yimway Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 9,707	How to encourage grouping?1. Tripple heroic xp.2. Make named kill aa repeatable.3. LDON - Add merchant camps with 'quests' to do different instances / dungeon kills that give token rewards that you can save up to eventually purchase special adornments and gear. We don't need immediate reward, but if I do some instance 30x with a group, there could be some specialized gear I could purchace with my 'tokens' to make all that grouping / grinding worth while. I personally would lobby that you should take the fabled drops off of instances and move them to a purchase merchant like this.I'd add quicker transportation from the 'mercanary camp' to the various instances / dungeons. In fact one camp could serve all levels, it just hands you a 'task' that is level appropriate. Make the 'task' shared by the group. etc.4. Heroic Quest lines - There is an awesome quest line for chardok with great legendary rewards, but it is STUPID hard to get on to the quest, and nearly impossible to work with adhoc groups as your almost never going to even find another player that is on the quests (cause you have to do an obscure collection to get the starter), and if you manige the miracle of finding someone on it, they'll never be on the same step. This quest line needs to be immediately moved to an NPC at zone in. __________________

07-22-2008, 12:11 PM	#23
Killerbee3000 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: right behind you Posts: 1,802	the problems with grouping as I see them: 1st:lets face it, you can be afk in qh, soloing in kp or raiding vp and talk with people, so why group to talk with people? no need for it. To say it differently, since social interaction can happen anywhere its no incentive to group. 2nd: another groupkiller are questlines, you simply wont find enough on the same step, going back and getting someone caught up is pointless as they will just bail once they got their stuff. 3rd, the game is so easy that 2, 3, 4 or even 6 boxing is possible without trouble, no, I'm not talking about botting, I'm talking about actually playing the toons, the game is literally so easy that it can be done, so why group? why deal with people who do random afks? why risk ending up with a noob? just do it yourself and you get to keep the loot as well. 4th: exp. solo questing gives better exp than grouping. __________________ Whiskers without loosing Eyes in '08!

07-22-2008, 12:31 PM	#24
FireDragon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 235	A 'dungeon questline' for each dungeon would be a very good thing to do I think. Upon entering the dungeon, you get the quest (and if you dont have it, every time you enter) this would award AA at each segment of the quest, while leading you throguh each dungeon while telling you its story.

07-22-2008, 12:31 PM	#25
ShashLigai Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 248	people that want to group, do. there's no reason to change the game to encourage grouping. just try it once and you'll be hooked. omg, group just once with a bard or dirge and you'll never want to leave home without one. each of the classes bring specific benefits to the group. if a cetain line of quests are inconvenient for a group to complete, then try a different line. or sacrifice a little of your time for the sake of someone else. its all part of the game. if you want to encourage grouping, then start a group. __________________ ---------------------- Shichea Lucan DLere

07-22-2008, 12:40 PM	#26
Beldin_ Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,343	Killerbee3000 wrote: 2nd: another groupkiller are questlines, you simply wont find enough on the same step, going back and getting someone caught up is pointless as they will just bail once they got their stuff. Yeah, they should maybe change questlines to not beeing so linear, so that you can maybe jump in and start with any quest of the line, but only for the final step you need to finish all steps. I really hated it when i never get further into the Claymore line, because every day you had again persons in the group that again needed the last 2 steps __________________

07-22-2008, 01:49 PM	#27
Brinelan Server: Guk Guild: Revelry and Honor Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Kelethin Posts: 328	I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time. It is a game, and games are meant to be fun. __________________

07-22-2008, 01:58 PM	#28
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Brinelan@Guk wrote: I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time. It is a game, and games are meant to be fun. Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again.

07-22-2008, 04:02 PM	#29
Zarador Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,194	Azekah1 wrote: Brinelan@Guk wrote: I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time. It is a game, and games are meant to be fun. Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again. Fun = kicking back and doing stuff because your enjoying what you are doing, regardless of the rewards.Work = Getting it done as fast as you can for as much pay as you can get. So increase the "pay" and people will be willing to group? Obviously, it's clear that those people don't find "fun" in grouping if it requires a pay boost to get them out there to group.You could almost link this post to the one complaining about there being so few live events. There are most likely so few live events run by the Guides because people never seemed to appreciate getting some fluff rewards for all the "Hard Work" they feel they put in. It's not work people, we should be here to have fun.

07-22-2008, 04:12 PM	#30
Azekah1 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,887	Zarador wrote: Azekah1 wrote: Brinelan@Guk wrote: I am going to agree with Zarador. The mechanics don't need to change, the players need to change. Who cares if the group isnt on the same step as you in a quest, do the quest to be social and have a good time. It is a game, and games are meant to be fun. Fun usually means acomplishing some goal. If goals are more easily acomplished soloing, less people will group.Grouping used to be more prevelant, and has become less prevelant because of mechanic changes.Give grouping better rewards than soloing, and ppl will put the effort to group again. Fun = kicking back and doing stuff because your enjoying what you are doing, regardless of the rewards.Work = Getting it done as fast as you can for as much pay as you can get. So increase the "pay" and people will be willing to group? Obviously, it's clear that those people don't find "fun" in grouping if it requires a pay boost to get them out there to group.You could almost link this post to the one complaining about there being so few live events. There are most likely so few live events run by the Guides because people never seemed to appreciate getting some fluff rewards for all the "Hard Work" they feel they put in. It's not work people, we should be here to have fun. Some people enjoy bettering their character.