Disarming Band

[Starwindz]

This is a nice ring for scouts, but not for Rangers. Any chance a Dev can look into it and maybe add some ranged crit or ranged double attack stats?

[Geothe]

This is a nice shoulder piece for Rangers, but not other DPS scouts.  Could it be changed too for others to use?

[Starwindz]

Why just have just melee crit and not ranged crit? Why have rangers in a seperate class by themselves since melee crit is worthless to them? Just a thought.

[Mr. Dawki]

Just a thought here, and should probably have its own thread, why not just make melee crit work on both range and melee, spell crit works the same weather you are close or far.

[Starwindz]

Mr. Dawkins wrote:

Just a thought here, and should probably have its own thread, why not just make melee crit work on both range and melee, spell crit works the same weather you are close or far.

Interesting idea.

I just hate seeing a good scout piece drop and only have "melee" crit and no ranged. All scouts will still bid on the piece regardless of the added ranged crit.

Fyreflyte? Is this piece typical itemization or an oversight?

[Fyreflyte]

Not every scout item is going to be useful to all scouts. The piece you listed is also lacking spell damage, which bards would be asking for. As the second poster pointed out, there are items that have ranged crit without melee crit on them. This provides some variability in loot and makes you choose which pieces you want to use.

[Starwindz]

Fyreflyte wrote:

Not every scout item is going to be useful to all scouts. The piece you listed is also lacking spell damage, which bards would be asking for. As the second poster pointed out, there are items that have ranged crit without melee crit on them. This provides some variability in loot and makes you choose which pieces you want to use.

Thanks for response.

I've already personally replied to you, but i'll restate my argument. )

There are zero rings from VP that have any ranged crit or ranged double attack. I figured maybe this was an oversight.

I've double checked Xanadu's database and I cannot find any other rings from VP that have ranged crit or ranged double attack. Can you check into this?

[Noob1974]

Hello,

first of all for Goethe, just putting the pic from the shoulder from pr to make a statement doesnt work. For the follwoing two reasons:

1.) The melee counterpart shoulder, called "Field Commanders mantle" dropp in T2. 

2.) Melee Classes get a 5 DA Wrist from PR, Rangers get nothing, Melee Scouts Helmet has 4% Crit and 4 DA while Ranger Helmet has only

4%. Third you get a dagger with 3 DA, too. So theres much more melee content, there ranged.

Fyreflyte i undertsang where you coming from and agree, that there has to be different items for different classes. However, there are 

major setbacks for ranger. Melees get a 5DA Wrists from an easy T1 encounter, while a ranger wo wants something similar needs to kill

Tangrine, Lvl86 x4 contestant, one of the most difficult encounter in the game, which means that maybe a handfull ranger per server get it. 

Another thing is there are only  jewelry fabled items (without SOH), that dropp with ranger specific stats. A Ring from T2with Tank Stats and 

no Str !!!!Than theres Pharla Dar Necklace, most ranger are already at 100-120 dps and would use either agony or thuuga necklace for the crit.

The first two nameds in VP alone dropp 3 fabled jewelry pieces for melees. 

Look at the "Signet of Betrayal" Rung it has 2% Heal, Spell and Melee Cirt but no ranged. I asked in another thread to add ranged crit too it.

But it was ignored.

The SOH Scout BP has 5% Melle Crit but no Ranged Crit, than only call it "All Melee Scouts" and not "All Scouts" , same with the RE2 Cloak which

you change. Fyreflyte why do you treat us like that. You designed this class with all its needs. I would hope you would add ranged crit to the

SOH Ring and BP.

[Fyreflyte]

Noob1974 wrote:

Fyreflyte i understand where you coming from and agree, that there has to be different items for different classes. However, there are 

major setbacks for ranger. Melees get a 5DA Wrists from an easy T1 encounter, while a ranger wo wants something similar needs to kill

Tangrine, Lvl86 x4 contestant, one of the most difficult encounter in the game, which means that maybe a handfull ranger per server get it.

If you want to argue that an item should have a stat added to it, this is the way to do it =) Simply posting a screenshot of a melee ring and asking if it was supposed to have ranged crit on it doesn't give me any background as to why the item should have ranged crit, other than that you want it to (which is usually not a compelling enough reason for me to affect game balance ). Explain to me why you feel the item needs it and what holes it's filling in itemization, and I'll be much more likely to take it into consideration.Noob1974 wrote:

Look at the "Signet of Betrayal" Rung it has 2% Heal, Spell and Melee Cirt but no ranged. I asked in another thread to add ranged crit too it.

But it was ignored.

The SOH Scout BP has 5% Melle Crit but no Ranged Crit, than only call it "All Melee Scouts" and not "All Scouts" , same with the RE2 Cloak which

you change. Fyreflyte why do you treat us like that. You designed this class with all its needs. I would hope you would add ranged crit to the

SOH Ring and BP.

The Signet of Betrayal is designed primarily for crusaders, and since they have little use for ranged crit, there isn't any on it. You make it sound like rangers were forgotten entirely in SoH. Let me then point you to Imbrued Chainmail Greaves, Cursed Coif, Shuddering Earring, Amulet of Agony, Sash of Pain, Cloak of Solidified Hate, and Lifespike, all of which have ranged crit or ranged DA on them. The missing ranged crit on the Runnyeye cloak was an error which I've already corrected and posted in another thread. There is no anti-ranger conspiracy here =) Some pieces of scout gear will have ranged crit and some won't.Edited out weird HTML tags.

[Starwindz]

With that said, any chance you can look into this? Like I said before, there are no rings from Veeshan's Peak that give rangers any ranged crit or ranged double attack.

[MacDaddy62]

Fyreflyte wrote:

Noob1974 wrote:

Fyreflyte i understand where you coming from and agree, that there has to be different items for different classes. However, there are 

major setbacks for ranger. Melees get a 5DA Wrists from an easy T1 encounter, while a ranger wo wants something similar needs to kill

Tangrine, Lvl86 x4 contestant, one of the most difficult encounter in the game, which means that maybe a handfull ranger per server get it.

If you want to argue that an item should have a stat added to it, this is the way to do it =) Simply posting a screenshot of a melee ring and asking if it was supposed to have ranged crit on it doesn't give me any background as to why the item should have ranged crit, other than that you want it to (which is usually not a compelling enough reason for me to affect game balance ). Explain to me why you feel the item needs it and what holes it's filling in itemization, and I'll be much more likely to take it into consideration.Noob1974 wrote:

Look at the "Signet of Betrayal" Rung it has 2% Heal, Spell and Melee Cirt but no ranged. I asked in another thread to add ranged crit too it.

But it was ignored.

The SOH Scout BP has 5% Melle Crit but no Ranged Crit, than only call it "All Melee Scouts" and not "All Scouts" , same with the RE2 Cloak which

you change. Fyreflyte why do you treat us like that. You designed this class with all its needs. I would hope you would add ranged crit to the

SOH Ring and BP.

The Signet of Betrayal is designed primarily for crusaders, and since they have little use for ranged crit, there isn't any on it. You make it sound like rangers were forgotten entirely in SoH. Let me then point you to Imbrued Chainmail Greaves, Cursed Coif, Shuddering Earring, Amulet of Agony, Sash of Pain, Cloak of Solidified Hate, and Lifespike, all of which have ranged crit or ranged DA on them. The missing ranged crit on the Runnyeye cloak was an error which I've already corrected and posted in another thread. There is no anti-ranger conspiracy here =) Some pieces of scout gear will have ranged crit and some won't.Edited out weird HTML tags.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  Your overall approach to ranger itemization is flawed because in the end it inevitably screws rangers on itemization compared to other classes.  Granted, this expansion is better than others have been in this respect, but rangers still have worse itemization than other classes due to your approach.More specifically, when you exclude bow bonuses from some scout items, you have now at least partially excluded rangers from the effects of those items, but you haven't really done the same for melee scouts as there are many items with only melee bonuses, but only a small handful with only bow bonuses.  Summoners actually face a very similar problem right now to a much more serious degree with respect to bonuses for their pets (spell crit on most items doesn't affect pet spell crit, etc.).  What is the solution?  Well, you could simply add more gear in with just the bow bonuses and not melee, but now you're flooding more items that really only benefit one class into the loot tables.  The real solution is to completely drop the segregation of melee and bow bonuses on items.  Just make every scout item have both.  This way, you give rangers and melee scouts truly equal treatment with respect to itemization and you avoid pumping items for just 1 class into loot tables.With respect to Disarming Band, the reasoning behind why it should have ranged crit is pretty obvious.  It's clearly a scout item, but its bonuses exclude rangers due to lacking ranged crit.  It also helps fill the itemization hole of raiding rings for rangers in T8.  There really are almost no good rings in T8 raiding for a ranger.  The only real options are Bloodstone Emperor Signet Ring and Signet of Betrayal.As for Signet of Betrayal, you may say it's a knight ring, but I'm not really seeing that in the item.  Knights are primarily tanks (at least in my guild), but they don't want to be tanking with it because of the de-taunt proc.  When not tanking, knights tend to be pretty high on the hate list (ours pulls aggro quite a bit), and this ring would make them pull aggro even more.  In my guild and world-wide, this item is, in reality, going mostly to scouts and enchanters.  I plan on picking it up at some point as a ranger, though I really do wish it had range crit on it, as well.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

[MacDaddy62]

Just to make my point about the unequal itemization clear, consider the following lists.Scout items from raiding that exclude rangers in their bonuses:Disarming BandPulse of PowerDragonclaw LoopProtector's LinksTreasureseaker's BandManipulator's HoodField Commander's MantleSignet of BetrayalWoven Shadow ChestplateDragon Bone BeltRing of Scale General's CloakLava-forged ChainmailBoots of Skittering WhispersFragment of the Tintinnabulum - This item procs control effect immunity off melee attacks only.  Please for the love of god no one tell me that rangers can out-range control effects, because if you've raided at all in RoK, you know that's utter bs.  Control effects on AE's hit at massive ranges and mobs furthermore have damage shields with control effects that trigger off ANY damage."Ranger-specific" items from raiding:Heartbreaker BraceletMidnight Mantle of SecretsCoiled Steel ShoulderguardsHellfired ArmguardsTraitor's CrownI have excluded weapons and class set gear from these lists for what should be obvious reasons.Perhaps it's true that not every single item in the first list would fill an obvious "hole" in ranger itemization were it to be changed to include rangers in its bonuses, but regardless rangers are getting screwed simply by a distinct dearth of gear options and opportunities compared to other scout classes.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

[Starwindz]

No doubt the 2 biggest holes to fill as a ranger are gloves and rings. Every ranger will try for the Bloodstone ring from Kor'Sha, but the second ring slot is pretty bare. The majority of rangers will fill that slot with mastercrafted ring of strength. Now, there are zero rings from VP worthy for a ranger. So, I'm figuring Disarming band (from Kluzen the Protector) would be a perfect ring for rangers since it is very scout friendly.

[Geothe]

Azleya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Just to make my point about the unequal itemization clear, consider the following lists.Scout items from raiding that exclude rangers in their bonuses:Disarming BandPulse of PowerDragonclaw LoopProtector's LinksTreasureseaker's BandManipulator's HoodField Commander's MantleSignet of BetrayalWoven Shadow ChestplateDragon Bone BeltRing of Scale General's CloakLava-forged ChainmailFragment of the Tintinnabulum - This item procs control effect immunity off melee attacks only.  Please for the love of god no one tell me that rangers can out-range control effects, because if you've raided at all in RoK, you know that's utter bs.  Control effects on AE's hit at massive ranges and mobs furthermore have damage shields with control effects that trigger off ANY damage."Ranger-specific" items from raiding:Heartbreaker BraceletMidnight Mantle of SecretsCoiled Steel ShoulderguardsHellfired ArmguardsTraitor's CrownI have excluded weapons and class set gear from these lists for what should be obvious reasons.Perhaps it's true that not every single item in the first list would fill an obvious "hole" in ranger itemization were it to be changed to include rangers in its bonuses, but regardless rangers are getting screwed simply by a distinct dearth of gear options and opportunities compared to other scout classes.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

So in your little list there, you have 13 items "excluding" rangers and 5 items "ranger specific".

Okay. There are 4 DPS scouts. Swash, Brig, Assassin, Ranger.

You listed 18 total items (almost 20).  You have 5 ranger only = ~25% of them.DPSing scouts that focus on range damage: 1/4 =~ 25%.

Seems about right to me.Yes, Ranger focus gear is rather rare.. but that is because rangers are 1 out of 24 classes and pretty much the only class gearing around ranged bonuses.  So yes. the big range bonuses SHOULD be a fair amount rare-er because they are useful for a smaller number of people.

A scout only item with melee crit would be used by 3 DPS-centered classes.A scout only item with range crit would be used by 1 DPS-centered class.

*shrug*

[Starwindz]

Let's not try to derail this thread plz. I do agree with some of the points, but the point of the matter is Disarming band and why is does not have any ranged crit or ranged double attack.

My point is pretty straight forward: there are no ranger rings that drop from Veeshan's Peak. None. Adding some ranger crit/ranged double attack would help the cause some.

[MacDaddy62]

Geothe wrote:

Azleya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Just to make my point about the unequal itemization clear, consider the following lists.Scout items from raiding that exclude rangers in their bonuses:Disarming BandPulse of PowerDragonclaw LoopProtector's LinksTreasureseaker's BandManipulator's HoodField Commander's MantleSignet of BetrayalWoven Shadow ChestplateDragon Bone BeltRing of Scale General's CloakLava-forged ChainmailFragment of the Tintinnabulum - This item procs control effect immunity off melee attacks only.  Please for the love of god no one tell me that rangers can out-range control effects, because if you've raided at all in RoK, you know that's utter bs.  Control effects on AE's hit at massive ranges and mobs furthermore have damage shields with control effects that trigger off ANY damage."Ranger-specific" items from raiding:Heartbreaker BraceletMidnight Mantle of SecretsCoiled Steel ShoulderguardsHellfired ArmguardsTraitor's CrownI have excluded weapons and class set gear from these lists for what should be obvious reasons.Perhaps it's true that not every single item in the first list would fill an obvious "hole" in ranger itemization were it to be changed to include rangers in its bonuses, but regardless rangers are getting screwed simply by a distinct dearth of gear options and opportunities compared to other scout classes.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

So in your little list there, you have 13 items "excluding" rangers and 5 items "ranger specific".

Okay. There are 4 DPS scouts. Swash, Brig, Assassin, Ranger.

You listed 18 total items (almost 20).  You have 5 ranger only = ~25% of them.DPSing scouts that focus on range damage: 1/4 =~ 25%.

Seems about right to me.Yes, Ranger focus gear is rather rare.. but that is because rangers are 1 out of 24 classes and pretty much the only class gearing around ranged bonuses.  So yes. the big range bonuses SHOULD be a fair amount rare-er because they are useful for a smaller number of people.

A scout only item with melee crit would be used by 3 DPS-centered classes.A scout only item with range crit would be used by 1 DPS-centered class.

*shrug*

Lol you're looking at it completely the wrong way.  Because of those lists, rangers have fewer gear options.  There are fewer items they can possibly get to increase their dps.  If I'm an assassin, I can eventually get the 13 items on that first list.  If I'm a ranger, I can only get the 5 items on the 2nd list and a couple from the first list that I can sort of use, but not to the extent the assassin can.  Who is better off?  Who has the better itemization?  Obviously the assassin is significantly better off.This is the key problem.  Rangers are limited in their gear because of this perception that they shouldn't have as many gear options because they are 1 class vs. several (ranger is not the only class that faces this problem, btw).  As I've shown, though, this approach to itemization is the wrong one.  The proper approach is to design items that can be used to their full potential by a broad range of classes.  Specifically, for example, design all scout items to have both spell and CA damage (not just 1 or the other), and that have melee, ranged, and spell crit (as opposed to just 1 or 2 crit types), so that you include pure melee scouts, rangers, and bards.  Design all mage items to add spell crit and spell damage to both the mage and his pet, so that you include summoners.  With this approach, you get consistent itemization that affords all classes pretty equal upgrade opportunities and you avoid having an excessive number of items in the loot tables that are only really there for the benefit of a couple classes.I just got Heartbreaker Bracelet off Tangrin the other day.  What am I going to do with this item the next time it drops?  Give it to some other scout who's supposedly going to use it for "ranged" fights but in reality rarely equips it even for such fights?  What a waste of a Tangrin drop.

[Starwindz]

I'll be happy if Fyre fixes Disarming band personally.

There is no doubt rangers need some help in certain areas as far as itemization goes. Seeing Hailsspike drop off an Avatar and not go to a ranger is mindboggling. But why? Oh yea, the Mythical is a better bow. Why can't Hailspike drop somewhere else so that a ranger could use it before nabbing their Mythicals. We have very little upgrades from Fabled ET.

Just a thought.

[silversurfer1214]

Azleya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Geothe wrote:

Azleya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Just to make my point about the unequal itemization clear, consider the following lists.Scout items from raiding that exclude rangers in their bonuses:Disarming BandPulse of PowerDragonclaw LoopProtector's LinksTreasureseaker's BandManipulator's HoodField Commander's MantleSignet of BetrayalWoven Shadow ChestplateDragon Bone BeltRing of Scale General's CloakLava-forged ChainmailFragment of the Tintinnabulum - This item procs control effect immunity off melee attacks only.  Please for the love of god no one tell me that rangers can out-range control effects, because if you've raided at all in RoK, you know that's utter bs.  Control effects on AE's hit at massive ranges and mobs furthermore have damage shields with control effects that trigger off ANY damage."Ranger-specific" items from raiding:Heartbreaker BraceletMidnight Mantle of SecretsCoiled Steel ShoulderguardsHellfired ArmguardsTraitor's CrownI have excluded weapons and class set gear from these lists for what should be obvious reasons.Perhaps it's true that not every single item in the first list would fill an obvious "hole" in ranger itemization were it to be changed to include rangers in its bonuses, but regardless rangers are getting screwed simply by a distinct dearth of gear options and opportunities compared to other scout classes.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

So in your little list there, you have 13 items "excluding" rangers and 5 items "ranger specific".

Okay. There are 4 DPS scouts. Swash, Brig, Assassin, Ranger.

You listed 18 total items (almost 20).  You have 5 ranger only = ~25% of them.DPSing scouts that focus on range damage: 1/4 =~ 25%.

Seems about right to me.Yes, Ranger focus gear is rather rare.. but that is because rangers are 1 out of 24 classes and pretty much the only class gearing around ranged bonuses.  So yes. the big range bonuses SHOULD be a fair amount rare-er because they are useful for a smaller number of people.

A scout only item with melee crit would be used by 3 DPS-centered classes.A scout only item with range crit would be used by 1 DPS-centered class.

*shrug*

Lol you're looking at it completely the wrong way.  Because of those lists, rangers have fewer gear options.  There are fewer items they can possibly get to increase their dps.  If I'm an assassin, I can eventually get the 13 items on that first list.  If I'm a ranger, I can only get the 5 items on the 2nd list and a couple from the first list that I can sort of use, but not to the extent the assassin can.  Who is better off?  Who has the better itemization?  Obviously the assassin is significantly better off.This is the key problem.  Rangers are limited in their gear because of this perception that they shouldn't have as many gear options because they are 1 class vs. several (ranger is not the only class that faces this problem, btw).  As I've shown, though, this approach to itemization is the wrong one.  The proper approach is to design items that can be used to their full potential by a broad range of classes.  Specifically, for example, design all scout items to have both spell and CA damage (not just 1 or the other), and that have melee, ranged, and spell crit (as opposed to just 1 or 2 crit types), so that you include pure melee scouts, rangers, and bards.  Design all mage items to add spell crit and spell damage to both the mage and his pet, so that you include summoners.  With this approach, you get consistent itemization that affords all classes pretty equal upgrade opportunities and you avoid having an excessive number of items in the loot tables that are only really there for the benefit of a couple classes.I just got Heartbreaker Bracelet off Tangrin the other day.  What am I going to do with this item the next time it drops?  Give it to some other scout who's supposedly going to use it for "ranged" fights but in reality rarely equips it even for such fights?  What a waste of a Tangrin drop.

Azleya put it very eloquently, but I think dumbing it down would be better. You said there are 4 dps scouts Geroth, not 3 dps scouts and a ranger. Make the gear that way as well. I am tired of this mindset that rangers are a totally seperate archtype.

[Starwindz]

Rangers are a unique class within the scout archtype. Rangers look for ranged crit/ranged double attack gear first and not melee crit/melee double attack gear. So, rangers are alone in this and it is frustrating to see an item like Disarming band to drop and not be "ranger" friendly. It is even more frustrating to see the whole Veeshan's Peak loot table and have zero rings that benefit a ranger. If I remember correctly, there are over 100 pieces that drop from VP and there are no rings worthy for a ranger. And that, personally, is a little frustrating.

[nirate]

just merge melee crit with range crit and be done with it, that will bring rangers back in line with teh DPS they should be doing. Casters only have to worry about 1 type of crit, scouts have to worry about two, although range plays a very small part in a scout DPS it would end this whole argument to just make melee/range crit the same thing.

[Starwindz]

nirate wrote:

just merge melee crit with range crit and be done with it, that will bring rangers back in line with teh DPS they should be doing. Casters only have to worry about 1 type of crit, scouts have to worry about two, although range plays a very small part in a scout DPS it would end this whole argument to just make melee/range crit the same thing.

It's not that I'm asking to have every scout piece have melee and ranged crit.

Zero ranger rings from VP is kinda odd. )

[Lolianna]

The second most disappointing thing in this expansion, for me at least, is that we have to exchange our primary stat (strength) for ranged stats. Geothe's link for example, and the one, single ring we have, The bloodstone emperor's signet ring,  does not either. Amongst many other items 'meant for rangers'. It bewilders me to this day. Can anyone explain why having ranged stats seems to mean you will have to give up strength?

 Please Fyre, don't leave us with only the MC strength ring (which we just got to work off ranged a couple GU's ago) and the zero strength ring. Why must our choices be not only few and far between, but painful to boot?

[Noob1974]

Ok thanks for your first response fyreflyte and thanks to azleya for pointing out

somethings. Next to a Ring with Ranger Stats, i still need to understand why Melees

get  the Treasureseekers Band from an easy T1 Encounter, while Ranger need to

kill a contestant for the heartbreaker item. As Azleya pointed out an item so

 specifically, heartbreaker item, only for one class, makes it nearly obsulete after the

 class, who can use it, got it. Its like the Earring from the Sisters in SOH Questreward

with DPS,Melee Crit and Melee DA Proc and it can only be used by Mages,Priests and

 Bards .So a solution would be to give Ranged DA to the Treasureseeker Band

 and Melee Crit and DA to the Heartbreaker Bracelet from Tangerine in that way you

would upgrade the item to more classes.

As for many melees approach, there are 5 melee scouts and ranged scout, therefore

melee should have more items. No one asked to have as much items as them. But

things like a Ring, Wrists and/or earring should be obtainable for every classes

without the need to kill the hardest contestants. That should not only be for the

ranger class, but for any class .

[MacDaddy62]

Noob1974 wrote:

...As for many melees approach, there are 5 melee scouts and ranged scout, therefore

melee should have more items. No one asked to have as much items as them...

Actually I am asking for exactly that.  Scout itemization will be unequal until rangers have just as many opportunities to upgrade their gear as do melee scouts.  Under the current itemization paradigm, when a ranger has gotten all his ranger gear from a given set of raids, the melee scout following a similar gear progression will still have significant room to improve through itemization because he has more high-quality items he can acquire from those raids.  Make all scout items have equal amounts of both melee and bow bonuses.  It's just the sensible solution and the one in which everyone wins.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

[Snarks]

There is a ranged crit (separate from melee) for a reason. What do ranger want, 100% crit? Get real. Putting melee and range bonuses on gear would solve nothing. Instead, it would blend a lot of the variety in gear, making gear choices a lot less important.I would rather see an item designer that designs comprehensive and exciting loot tables. This idealistic game designer certainly never glanced once at Tangrin's offerings. And a large number of avatar items certainly leave me scratching my head.

[Starwindz]

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

There is a ranged crit (separate from melee) for a reason. What do ranger want, 100% crit? Get real. Putting melee and range bonuses on gear would solve nothing. Instead, it would blend a lot of the variety in gear, making gear choices a lot less important.I would rather see an item designer that designs comprehensive and exciting loot tables. This idealistic game designer certainly never glanced once at Tangrin's offerings. And a large number of avatar items certainly leave me scratching my head.

You are missing the point of this thread. There are zero ranger rings from Veeshan's Peak. Zero.

That is not right since there are over 100 drops from that instance.

I like variety, but I do like a little balance since mages, fighters, and scouts (except Rangers) do have droppable rings from VP.

[Ashr]

And there aren't any swash necklace drops in VP, yet rangers get the Signet of Dar.

[MacDaddy62]

Snarkq@Unrest wrote:

There is a ranged crit (separate from melee) for a reason. What do ranger want, 100% crit? Get real.

Actually, all they want it equal treatment.  If that means they can get 100% crit (or whatever meaningless stat threshold you want to come up with) with every single piece of high-end gear in game, so what?  It will be no more than what melee scouts can get because the classes will have zomg equal itemization.  What exactly is the big deal with giving rangers the same gear opportunities as other scouts?Synter@Venekor wrote:

And there aren't any swash necklace drops in VP, yet rangers get the Signet of Dar.

Signet of the Dar sucks.  It's worse than Talisman of Thuuga.

[Starwindz]

Synter@Venekor wrote:

And there aren't any swash necklace drops in VP, yet rangers get the Signet of Dar.

And that's better than Thuuga necklace?

Let's take a look:

 

Signet of the Dar drops off the end boss of VP while the thuuga neck is a soloable quest.

Signet of the Dar has "slightly" better stats (not by much), but only +2 ranged double attack while the Thuuga neck has +4 ranged crit and +50 CA damage.

To me, adding +10 dps is really nothing since rangers will usually go over 100 dps in raids. So, the only good thing the Dar necklace give is a measly +2 double attack from the end boss of VP. The Thuuga neck is still the better piece overall.

So, I don't understand how a drop from Phara Dar can be weaker than a soloable quest item???

Sorry for getting off topic here. But I had to respond to it.

[Ashr]

Starwindz wrote:

Synter@Venekor wrote:

And there aren't any swash necklace drops in VP, yet rangers get the Signet of Dar.

And that's better than Thuuga necklace?

Let's take a look:

 

Signet of the Dar drops off the end boss of VP while the thuuga neck is a soloable quest.

Signet of the Dar has "slightly" better stats (not by much), but only +2 ranged double attack while the Thuuga neck has +4 ranged crit and +50 CA damage.

To me, adding +10 dps is really nothing since rangers will usually go over 100 dps in raids. So, the only good thing the Dar necklace give is a measly +2 double attack from the end boss of VP. The Thuuga neck is still the better piece overall.

So, I don't understand how a drop from Phara Dar can be weaker than a soloable quest item???

Sorry for getting off topic here. But I had to respond to it.

Beside the point really.  I know that Thuuga is better.  I'm just bringing up a counter point to there being no ranger rings in VP - there are no Swash necklaces whereas there is a ranger one.