writs and pvp raids

Necodem · 03-05-2008, 07:10 PM

Was a good step with the last change for pvp writs, but there is still a big problem, it's always better to be more to complete them. And it results that people are outnumbering (x2+ ) to kill others, making pvp not so fun.

So I'll would suggest that while raiding you only get update on raids (ie :X4 get update for x2+ or even perhaps X4 get only update for X4, X2 for X2+ etc... ). And while grouping or raiding, the raid/group that did the most dmg to target get an update for the writ ( more than 50% dmg ), but while you are solo you still get an update ( or perhaps an update for min 30% dmg done ).

Or create 3 types of writs : solo, heroic and epic writs. Solo update on every kills, heroic on heroic+ and raid only on raid's kill.

I'm fed up of those laggy and no skill raid pvp, they destroyed the pvp.

Csky · 03-05-2008, 07:12 PM

spot on

solo writs should be solo/duo duo writs tho because of the level difference,,a high level player can kill 2 lower levels and it takes 2 low levels to kill a high level

/worship

Roald · 03-05-2008, 07:43 PM

Csky wrote:

spot on
solo writs should be solo/duo duo writs tho because of the level difference,,a high level player can kill 2 lower levels and it takes 2 low levels to kill a high level
/worship

Ah gad.

Hinosh · 03-05-2008, 09:47 PM

That's right, how DARE they encourage massive groups of players playing together in a Massive Multiplayer Game?

There's a way to get around the raids, just bring a bigger one.

Vilesummon · 03-05-2008, 11:08 PM

We have had this discussion within our guild Darkhain, and totally agree with you. The premise of the writs was a good idea, but now we see the abuse in application. We have also talked about the solo, epic, and heroic versions of the writs. No matter what it takes, something has to be done because the nightly reports of raid pvp (in particular on Venekor). As you know, the Q population is lower than the Freep, and there are complaints about the lack of pvp for your guys. Do you think that the potential of being ganked by a raid is going to encourage more people to stick with it?

Our guild loves to pvp, you guys can consistently expect to find a group or so out, but we refuse to raid pvp, it isn't our style. The fact is that the nightly raid routine is testing even the limits of even dedicated pvpers. If it continues, players will be driven from the game. Now I know, God forbid, that I express my opinion on something that I think is bad. I will get flamed for saying what I am...or I will get the normal lectures about Venekor population. I will hear the crap about players in our guild killing 1 person when we have 4, but the point is that the raid pvp for writ credit isn't working...

To illustrate the point, the raid pvp came into Sebilis, a group of our guys is in there getting an update, which isn't always easy for a single group...and the raid tears a path to our guys, kills the single group, and then ports out. Tell me that is what SOE had in mind...24 on 6 so that 24 people all get updates...and then the raid goes back to KP to camp the dock the rest of the night.

I close with this, even as an opposite aligned player, you should realize that the effect of this isn't just boredom for the players in the writ raid party, but in the sense of total frustration for the other alignment. It may seem like a great idea in the short term...a way to pad your token count and fame, but in the medium and long term, the effect is not going to be helpful to anyone.

Darkhain, I applaud you for saying what you did...and I hope as such, that you choose not to participate in the raid parties. I already lost respect for one player on your side for the hypocrisy that he exhibited in first criticizing raids and then participating in it. I gained respect for Faenwulfa last night when I did actually see him out alone...and not joining the raid party (unless he was just scouting for them but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt). Especially on Venekor with our population issues, the loss of players could be bad for all of us, I encourage you to try to get your point of view across to others. Trust me, we have criticized other Q guilds for the action, and I really am not going to get in the habit of participating in it.

Enduro3 · 03-06-2008, 12:51 AM

I personally have been having fun with the raid vs. raid. just the lag issue needs to be fixed other than, that it has been a blast. Getting writ updates constantly, controlling the docks. I realize some people don't like the raid vs. raid, just move to other zones when a raid zone in or get more people on your alignment to help out. KP on Nagafen is a great place for raid vs. raid fights, and that is the only place the raid I was in PVP'd at. I am sure if went to Fens, KJ or JW you would run into a group or solos. I would just recommend not fighting near the writs givers if wanting to aviod raid PVP most of the time.

Amphibia · 03-06-2008, 03:24 AM

Darkhain@Venekor wrote:

Was a good step with the last change for pvp writs, but there is still a big problem, it's always better to be more to complete them. And it results that people are outnumbering (x2+ ) to kill others, making pvp not so fun.
So I'll would suggest that while raiding you only get update on raids (ie :X4 get update for x2+ or even perhaps X4 get only update for X4, X2 for X2+ etc... " />. And while grouping or raiding, the raid/group that did the most dmg to target get an update for the writ ( more than 50% dmg ), but while you are solo you still get an update ( or perhaps an update for min 30% dmg done ).
Or create 3 types of writs : solo, heroic and epic writs. Solo update on every kills, heroic on heroic+ and raid only on raid's kill.

Can't base anything on damage because that would be utterly unfair to healers and low DPS classes.And can't use the 3 type writ system you describe, because then everyone would pick the solo writs anyways and we are back where we began. Also, writs have to update on soloists if you're in a group, or else we will be right where we began once again with all the scouts running solo because it is less efficient to be grouped up. No thank you.Poor devs.... it really is impossible to make everyone happy, isn't it? I think the writs are fine now, and no - I have no plans of raid PvP'ing all the time for my gear. This will blow over, guys, just give it some time. I think people are just being enthusiastic about the writs, which is a good thing? And there is still lots of PvP to be had for soloists and small groups, but you need to move a little away from Terens Grasp and the docks in Kylong. Why not try the other zones, like KJ, Fens and Jarsath? I got my writs updated there yesterday.Besides, the writs in their current form are perfect for true faction VS faction PvP, which raid PvP actually can be seen as. If one faction is dominating, it usually doesn't take long before the other one gathers their forces and try to take them out. I thought that was what a PvP server was about, unless we all want it to be some kind of a gentleman sport.... Nagafen is beginning to look like an actual PvP server again, and you guys are complaining??? I don't get it.Edit: because i can't spell.

Owa · 03-06-2008, 04:42 AM

I agree completely with what Vilesummon had to say. Raid PvP is crap and getting updates for being in the biggest group is an appalling way to PvP.But then I also agree with what Amphibia had to say. It is supposed to be realm vs realm after all, and maybe we will get used to it.Hmm. It's tough when you can't make up your mind what to be angry about.

Csky · 03-06-2008, 05:01 AM

simple solution

only allow writ updates for raids vs other raids..and if they kill anything less than a raid the persons should lose no fame or have no hit on stats and it doesnt count as a writ update because they werent an epic encounter

then it wouldnt be such a big deal to be rolled by numbers, because griefing lesser targets till they log or quit isnt a very playable game , and it wouldnt encourage raids to hunt lesser targets

people can have any playstyle they want and people who want to raid can raid and get together and farm each other however they want but not at the expense of everyone else

Faenril · 03-06-2008, 05:57 AM

While theoritically the idea of getting updates only for matching forces is nice (and in principle I like it), it just does not work in practice: as Amphibia said, ppl will just disband to get the kill, and group/raid right after again. The only consequence will be that instead of being rolled by 1 raid, the solo will be rolled 4 times by 1 group...Pick your favored option SMILEY<img src=

" />At the moment I can't figure out a solution that makes group pvp appealing without favoring numbers. Actually I doubt it's possible to come up with a solution that satisfies everyone.While I'm no big fan of raid pvp, the "hold the docks" game is still kinda funny, with each faction gathering more forces until one gets tired (or out of players, which happens quickly on venekor) and quits...Anyway we should wait a bit, things will probably cooldown. Everybody was very eager to see how the "fixed" writs would work, so many ppl have been out in the past days to give it a try...

Csky · 03-06-2008, 06:21 AM

it isnt like the raid stops and discusses if theyve killed that person and is still on recent..get serious LOL 90% of the raid doesnt even know where the update came from in the first place when they roll a solo since they are on auto follow..if the solo is there they will be rolled regardless

but if they werent in raids they would have plenty of groups to fight

and theres no way raids should be getting updates on non raid targets thats too easy mode and any blind rtarded monkey could PVP that way.which isnt PVP anyway its griefing

Faenril · 03-06-2008, 07:03 AM

Ok. But tell me how do you prevent several groups/solos rolling together unraided/ungrouped from getting updates then ? How do you prevent ppl from disbanding on the fly to get updates ? By putting a 30 sec timer when disbanding, like mentoring works ?

Rattfa · 03-06-2008, 07:04 AM

The raid situation will calm down after a while as it always does after a big pvp change.

Spyderbite · 03-06-2008, 07:26 AM

Evac. Problem solved and Raid Guild frustrated. /nods SMILEY

Necodem · 03-06-2008, 07:41 AM

Faerie@Venekor wrote:

While theoritically the idea of getting updates only for matching forces is nice (and in principle I like it), it just does not work in practice: as Amphibia said, ppl will just disband to get the kill, and group/raid right after again.

No because if you only get an update for doing 50%+ of dmg, you won't be able to leech people. Ok you can still be solo and sticking to a full group and leech, but well you'll be quick dead.

About the 3 writs, yeah I think too that heroic wirts should upgrade for killing solo players too ( just perhaps need a bit more kills ) and of course you can take all the 3 writs, but you it only update when soloing, grouping or raiding, a heroic quest doesn't update while soloing.

All I want is to stop the raiding b******* pvp, because EQ2 is not made for it, servers can't handle it, it's no fun to lag like hell and die without doing anything. So if writs doesn't update while raiding and you need to do more than 50% of damage to get an update, then I'll be fine.

Kratoswra · 03-06-2008, 07:47 AM

I've been able to grp pvp, solo pvp and raid pvp till the update so i dont see where is the problem.

PVP raids are fun, I you dont like just move to another zone. Problem solved. Anyway this will calm down in some weeks.

The only problem with pvp is lag. SOE buy better servers!

Faenril · 03-06-2008, 08:22 AM

My concern was not really the leeching itself (which is an issue too though). It was the fact that people will disband to match the solo/heroic/epic status of the target, while still being very overpowered thanks to numbers. Or they will disband to try to deny kills to their ennemies... Plz just consider this example: SoloXXX is questing somewhere or passing by KP docks, while raiderYYY is part of a x2 or x4 (or even 6 man group does not matter). raiderYYY drops group/raid, engages soloXXX with his group/raid backing up him with heals, rooting/stuning/stiffling the poor solo. The result is that raiderYYY got credit for the kill with close to zero risk >> still not fair. Now you may argue it's an improvement compared to current state because only 1 player got credit and not 24. Granted, but what if the raid now follows the solo until 24 got update ? not cool IMO. I know it's an extreme scenario but I just want to point the potential problems...Well maybe I'm just too pessimistic and it would work out fine SMILEY

As far as leeching is concerned, I agree one should not be rewarded for jumping in the middle of an encounter with an AOE. But I would favor a rule like "the first party which entered combat (by inflicting damage/heals incoming damage, solo or group or raid does not matter) gets credit for the kill". The reason is that usually the first one who engages takes the risk. The 50% dmg rule would be very unfair to low DPS classes. For instance a high DPS class jumps a 1 vs 1 fight to help a healer in trouble... with the dmg rule probably the high DPS class gets credit for the kill, though the healer took the risk in the first place. Anyway I still think this raid pvp thing is a non issue. Over the last 2 days more than 90% of the updates I got were from group vs group, or group/raid vs group/raid. Not raid ganking solos... Sure it's not fair when a raid gets credit from a solo, but it's not a significant part of the turn over. That guy who pretends he made 260 tokens did not get them afk, auto following a raid which ganked only solos. He made many tokens by taking part in many huge battles. Works fine IMO.

Vilesummon · 03-06-2008, 11:03 PM

Ironic that I was out pvping today...and not once but twice I saw the original poster in raids. I know one thing for sure, I never had above a heroic tag on my head. Darkhain, if you want to criticize something, it holds a little more credibility if you don't participate in what you are criticizing. Yes, I was at the dock for awhile today, but if you targetted me, you would have seen heroic and not epic...it is important to try to stick to the principle of your argument. At least I think it is.

Amphibia · 03-07-2008, 04:42 AM

Darkhain@Venekor wrote:

and you need to do more than 50% of damage to get an update, then I'll be fine.

That solution would only suit scouts and other melee classes who can put out insane DPS the first couple of seconds. No thank you. I mean, c'mon... you really think that would be fair? I can tell you right now that it wouldn't be.

Shadow_Viper · 03-07-2008, 04:59 AM

I would once again like to say thank you to SOE/Devs for the archtype change to PVP writs. definantly a big improvment!!

SMILEY

Brimestar · 03-07-2008, 05:01 AM

Yea servers crashing is really HAWT

Shadow_Viper · 03-07-2008, 05:21 AM

Pretty sure Venekor hasn't crashed. Nagafen's problem is just an overloaded server.

Csky · 03-07-2008, 05:23 AM

yeah of course its an improvement, 50 people only need to kill 6 players between them to complete a writ.gee thats a hard and really reward worthy i might add .what its an improvement for i dont know..improving giving away free tokens for nothing maybe

Shadow_Viper · 03-07-2008, 05:25 AM

You have the option to raid up as well Csky.

Csky · 03-07-2008, 05:32 AM

LOL

id quit before i ran around killing targets 50 vs 2 even if SoE gave me enough tokens for a full set of PVP gear for free..who'd want it if i had to play that way and call it PVP

i want a challenge in PVP and formidable fights not to hold hands like a bunch of pansies hunting lesser targets and call myself a PVPer

you guys have stooped to an all time low for GEAR

Shadow_Viper · 03-07-2008, 05:42 AM

Ahh I see, you want to try and force other players to play the way you want them to just because you dislike something.

Raid vs raid PVP can be very challenging. As I said, you have the option of raiding up and hunting down enemy raids.

FYI, I mostly solo.

bladechef · 03-07-2008, 06:03 AM

It's physically distressing for me to agree with Shadow_viper tbh, but here it is... Csky: With the number of raids running around since writ changes I think you would have quite an easy time of finding an evenly matched fight reguardless of how many folks are on your team. I think (and the past 3 nights would be proving me right) that you could easily take your 50-man raid and have no trouble finding an overwhelming force. Seems the only way you could raid the last few days and NOT run into an opposing raid would be to actively try to avoid it.

BUT considering that you have stated previously that you personally play solo/dup exclusively (on a Paladin which is a dueling toon) I think more appropriately you would just rather have duels and/or 1v1-2v1s... that's what I gather from your previous posting. You've also stated on numerous occasions that overcons were the ones rolling over you in groups. I have a paladin in the lower side of T7 now who is doing very well @ lvl 74 with 115 AA and has yet to step into RoK. There are any number of different areas that have level-appropriate content and still (at least on Nagafen) see occasional PvP action. MMC, CMM, PoA, Most of the EoF instances... even Kaladim is quite nice for solo/duo paladin working up to lvl 80. Perhaps change your locale to fit your expectations, because as it stands most city players have token fever and are setting all else aside to zerg eachother nonstop until they've got all the PvP gear imaginable and backup pieces to boot. This most likely will still be the case unless they leave the writ givers away from the docks etc. (as they have just taken them out)

You have options

Csky · 03-07-2008, 06:13 AM

quote

"Raid vs raid PVP can be very challenging. As I said, you have the option of raiding up and hunting down enemy raids."

*************************

they arent doing epic writs they are doing a writ that requires 6 kills between all 50 of them. if people want to fight in a raid then they should have epic writs

IM [Removed for Content] because you think killing 6 people with a raid is any form of challenge

edit: O wait! its 5 people..OMG how will they ever do it with only 50 people!

fear the challenge

and blade, i dont have a problem with getting rolled, it happens.. i have a problem with numbers being rewarded for no challenge no risk PVP

Necodem · 03-07-2008, 08:55 AM

Vilesummon@Venekor wrote:

Ironic that I was out pvping today...and not once but twice I saw the original poster in raids. I know one thing for sure, I never had above a heroic tag on my head. Darkhain, if you want to criticize something, it holds a little more credibility if you don't participate in what you are criticizing. Yes, I was at the dock for awhile today, but if you targetted me, you would have seen heroic and not epic...it is important to try to stick to the principle of your argument. At least I think it is.

So should I stick with my group and get rolled by raid or untagged raid? Currently there are no reason, and we are fed up of of this, so now we are doing the same, just to led the others know how it looks like.

I have nothing against people that like doing raid vs raid, but in EQ2 raid vs raid is not a viable option, because of lag server.

Ok so what about first one/grp/raid that engaged the target get the credit instead of 50%+ of damage, works also fine for me.

Crimmyblues · 03-07-2008, 08:59 AM

I've never heard people complain that pvp was too large scale before.

03-05-2008, 07:43 PM	#3
Roald Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,417	Csky wrote: spot on solo writs should be solo/duo duo writs tho because of the level difference,,a high level player can kill 2 lower levels and it takes 2 low levels to kill a high level /worship Ah gad. __________________ Lickle Milambers Qtoon

03-06-2008, 03:24 AM	#7
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	Darkhain@Venekor wrote: Was a good step with the last change for pvp writs, but there is still a big problem, it's always better to be more to complete them. And it results that people are outnumbering (x2+ ) to kill others, making pvp not so fun. So I'll would suggest that while raiding you only get update on raids (ie :X4 get update for x2+ or even perhaps X4 get only update for X4, X2 for X2+ etc... " />. And while grouping or raiding, the raid/group that did the most dmg to target get an update for the writ ( more than 50% dmg ), but while you are solo you still get an update ( or perhaps an update for min 30% dmg done ). Or create 3 types of writs : solo, heroic and epic writs. Solo update on every kills, heroic on heroic+ and raid only on raid's kill. Can't base anything on damage because that would be utterly unfair to healers and low DPS classes.And can't use the 3 type writ system you describe, because then everyone would pick the solo writs anyways and we are back where we began. Also, writs have to update on soloists if you're in a group, or else we will be right where we began once again with all the scouts running solo because it is less efficient to be grouped up. No thank you.Poor devs.... it really is impossible to make everyone happy, isn't it? I think the writs are fine now, and no - I have no plans of raid PvP'ing all the time for my gear. This will blow over, guys, just give it some time. I think people are just being enthusiastic about the writs, which is a good thing? And there is still lots of PvP to be had for soloists and small groups, but you need to move a little away from Terens Grasp and the docks in Kylong. Why not try the other zones, like KJ, Fens and Jarsath? I got my writs updated there yesterday.Besides, the writs in their current form are perfect for true faction VS faction PvP, which raid PvP actually can be seen as. If one faction is dominating, it usually doesn't take long before the other one gathers their forces and try to take them out. I thought that was what a PvP server was about, unless we all want it to be some kind of a gentleman sport.... Nagafen is beginning to look like an actual PvP server again, and you guys are complaining??? I don't get it.Edit: because i can't spell. __________________

03-06-2008, 04:42 AM	#8
Owa General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 944	I agree completely with what Vilesummon had to say. Raid PvP is crap and getting updates for being in the biggest group is an appalling way to PvP.But then I also agree with what Amphibia had to say. It is supposed to be realm vs realm after all, and maybe we will get used to it.Hmm. It's tough when you can't make up your mind what to be angry about. __________________

03-06-2008, 05:57 AM	#10
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	While theoritically the idea of getting updates only for matching forces is nice (and in principle I like it), it just does not work in practice: as Amphibia said, ppl will just disband to get the kill, and group/raid right after again. The only consequence will be that instead of being rolled by 1 raid, the solo will be rolled 4 times by 1 group...Pick your favored option " />At the moment I can't figure out a solution that makes group pvp appealing without favoring numbers. Actually I doubt it's possible to come up with a solution that satisfies everyone.While I'm no big fan of raid pvp, the "hold the docks" game is still kinda funny, with each faction gathering more forces until one gets tired (or out of players, which happens quickly on venekor) and quits...Anyway we should wait a bit, things will probably cooldown. Everybody was very eager to see how the "fixed" writs would work, so many ppl have been out in the past days to give it a try...

03-06-2008, 07:04 AM	#13
Rattfa Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Friends And Family General Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: England Posts: 1,083	The raid situation will calm down after a while as it always does after a big pvp change. __________________ Squeeeek, 80 Brigand - Nagafen Rattface, 80 Fury - Nagafen

03-05-2008, 07:10 PM	#1
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	Was a good step with the last change for pvp writs, but there is still a big problem, it's always better to be more to complete them. And it results that people are outnumbering (x2+ ) to kill others, making pvp not so fun. So I'll would suggest that while raiding you only get update on raids (ie :X4 get update for x2+ or even perhaps X4 get only update for X4, X2 for X2+ etc... ). And while grouping or raiding, the raid/group that did the most dmg to target get an update for the writ ( more than 50% dmg ), but while you are solo you still get an update ( or perhaps an update for min 30% dmg done ). Or create 3 types of writs : solo, heroic and epic writs. Solo update on every kills, heroic on heroic+ and raid only on raid's kill. I'm fed up of those laggy and no skill raid pvp, they destroyed the pvp.

03-05-2008, 07:12 PM	#2
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	spot on solo writs should be solo/duo duo writs tho because of the level difference,,a high level player can kill 2 lower levels and it takes 2 low levels to kill a high level /worship

03-05-2008, 09:47 PM	#4
Hinosh Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 115	That's right, how DARE they encourage massive groups of players playing together in a Massive Multiplayer Game? There's a way to get around the raids, just bring a bigger one.

03-05-2008, 11:08 PM	#5
Vilesummon Server: Venekor Guild: Exalted Rank: Officer Alt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 236	We have had this discussion within our guild Darkhain, and totally agree with you. The premise of the writs was a good idea, but now we see the abuse in application. We have also talked about the solo, epic, and heroic versions of the writs. No matter what it takes, something has to be done because the nightly reports of raid pvp (in particular on Venekor). As you know, the Q population is lower than the Freep, and there are complaints about the lack of pvp for your guys. Do you think that the potential of being ganked by a raid is going to encourage more people to stick with it? Our guild loves to pvp, you guys can consistently expect to find a group or so out, but we refuse to raid pvp, it isn't our style. The fact is that the nightly raid routine is testing even the limits of even dedicated pvpers. If it continues, players will be driven from the game. Now I know, God forbid, that I express my opinion on something that I think is bad. I will get flamed for saying what I am...or I will get the normal lectures about Venekor population. I will hear the crap about players in our guild killing 1 person when we have 4, but the point is that the raid pvp for writ credit isn't working... To illustrate the point, the raid pvp came into Sebilis, a group of our guys is in there getting an update, which isn't always easy for a single group...and the raid tears a path to our guys, kills the single group, and then ports out. Tell me that is what SOE had in mind...24 on 6 so that 24 people all get updates...and then the raid goes back to KP to camp the dock the rest of the night. I close with this, even as an opposite aligned player, you should realize that the effect of this isn't just boredom for the players in the writ raid party, but in the sense of total frustration for the other alignment. It may seem like a great idea in the short term...a way to pad your token count and fame, but in the medium and long term, the effect is not going to be helpful to anyone. Darkhain, I applaud you for saying what you did...and I hope as such, that you choose not to participate in the raid parties. I already lost respect for one player on your side for the hypocrisy that he exhibited in first criticizing raids and then participating in it. I gained respect for Faenwulfa last night when I did actually see him out alone...and not joining the raid party (unless he was just scouting for them but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt). Especially on Venekor with our population issues, the loss of players could be bad for all of us, I encourage you to try to get your point of view across to others. Trust me, we have criticized other Q guilds for the action, and I really am not going to get in the habit of participating in it.

03-06-2008, 12:51 AM	#6
Enduro3 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13	I personally have been having fun with the raid vs. raid. just the lag issue needs to be fixed other than, that it has been a blast. Getting writ updates constantly, controlling the docks. I realize some people don't like the raid vs. raid, just move to other zones when a raid zone in or get more people on your alignment to help out. KP on Nagafen is a great place for raid vs. raid fights, and that is the only place the raid I was in PVP'd at. I am sure if went to Fens, KJ or JW you would run into a group or solos. I would just recommend not fighting near the writs givers if wanting to aviod raid PVP most of the time.

03-06-2008, 05:01 AM	#9
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	simple solution only allow writ updates for raids vs other raids..and if they kill anything less than a raid the persons should lose no fame or have no hit on stats and it doesnt count as a writ update because they werent an epic encounter then it wouldnt be such a big deal to be rolled by numbers, because griefing lesser targets till they log or quit isnt a very playable game , and it wouldnt encourage raids to hunt lesser targets people can have any playstyle they want and people who want to raid can raid and get together and farm each other however they want but not at the expense of everyone else

03-06-2008, 06:21 AM	#11
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	it isnt like the raid stops and discusses if theyve killed that person and is still on recent..get serious LOL 90% of the raid doesnt even know where the update came from in the first place when they roll a solo since they are on auto follow..if the solo is there they will be rolled regardless but if they werent in raids they would have plenty of groups to fight and theres no way raids should be getting updates on non raid targets thats too easy mode and any blind rtarded monkey could PVP that way.which isnt PVP anyway its griefing

03-06-2008, 07:03 AM	#12
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	Ok. But tell me how do you prevent several groups/solos rolling together unraided/ungrouped from getting updates then ? How do you prevent ppl from disbanding on the fly to get updates ? By putting a 30 sec timer when disbanding, like mentoring works ?

03-06-2008, 07:26 AM	#14
Spyderbite Server: Venekor Guild: Dark Vengeance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 4,262	Evac. Problem solved and Raid Guild frustrated. /nods

03-06-2008, 07:41 AM	#15
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	Faerie@Venekor wrote: While theoritically the idea of getting updates only for matching forces is nice (and in principle I like it), it just does not work in practice: as Amphibia said, ppl will just disband to get the kill, and group/raid right after again. No because if you only get an update for doing 50%+ of dmg, you won't be able to leech people. Ok you can still be solo and sticking to a full group and leech, but well you'll be quick dead. About the 3 writs, yeah I think too that heroic wirts should upgrade for killing solo players too ( just perhaps need a bit more kills ) and of course you can take all the 3 writs, but you it only update when soloing, grouping or raiding, a heroic quest doesn't update while soloing. All I want is to stop the raiding b******* pvp, because EQ2 is not made for it, servers can't handle it, it's no fun to lag like hell and die without doing anything. So if writs doesn't update while raiding and you need to do more than 50% of damage to get an update, then I'll be fine.

03-06-2008, 07:47 AM	#16
Kratoswra General Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 65	I've been able to grp pvp, solo pvp and raid pvp till the update so i dont see where is the problem. PVP raids are fun, I you dont like just move to another zone. Problem solved. Anyway this will calm down in some weeks. The only problem with pvp is lag. SOE buy better servers!

03-06-2008, 08:22 AM	#17
Faenril Server: Nagafen Guild: Purity Rank: Sushi Maker - Alt Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,136	My concern was not really the leeching itself (which is an issue too though). It was the fact that people will disband to match the solo/heroic/epic status of the target, while still being very overpowered thanks to numbers. Or they will disband to try to deny kills to their ennemies... Plz just consider this example: SoloXXX is questing somewhere or passing by KP docks, while raiderYYY is part of a x2 or x4 (or even 6 man group does not matter). raiderYYY drops group/raid, engages soloXXX with his group/raid backing up him with heals, rooting/stuning/stiffling the poor solo. The result is that raiderYYY got credit for the kill with close to zero risk >> still not fair. Now you may argue it's an improvement compared to current state because only 1 player got credit and not 24. Granted, but what if the raid now follows the solo until 24 got update ? not cool IMO. I know it's an extreme scenario but I just want to point the potential problems...Well maybe I'm just too pessimistic and it would work out fine As far as leeching is concerned, I agree one should not be rewarded for jumping in the middle of an encounter with an AOE. But I would favor a rule like "the first party which entered combat (by inflicting damage/heals incoming damage, solo or group or raid does not matter) gets credit for the kill". The reason is that usually the first one who engages takes the risk. The 50% dmg rule would be very unfair to low DPS classes. For instance a high DPS class jumps a 1 vs 1 fight to help a healer in trouble... with the dmg rule probably the high DPS class gets credit for the kill, though the healer took the risk in the first place. Anyway I still think this raid pvp thing is a non issue. Over the last 2 days more than 90% of the updates I got were from group vs group, or group/raid vs group/raid. Not raid ganking solos... Sure it's not fair when a raid gets credit from a solo, but it's not a significant part of the turn over. That guy who pretends he made 260 tokens did not get them afk, auto following a raid which ganked only solos. He made many tokens by taking part in many huge battles. Works fine IMO.

03-06-2008, 11:03 PM	#18
Vilesummon Server: Venekor Guild: Exalted Rank: Officer Alt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 236	Ironic that I was out pvping today...and not once but twice I saw the original poster in raids. I know one thing for sure, I never had above a heroic tag on my head. Darkhain, if you want to criticize something, it holds a little more credibility if you don't participate in what you are criticizing. Yes, I was at the dock for awhile today, but if you targetted me, you would have seen heroic and not epic...it is important to try to stick to the principle of your argument. At least I think it is.

03-07-2008, 04:42 AM	#19
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	Darkhain@Venekor wrote: and you need to do more than 50% of damage to get an update, then I'll be fine. That solution would only suit scouts and other melee classes who can put out insane DPS the first couple of seconds. No thank you. I mean, c'mon... you really think that would be fair? I can tell you right now that it wouldn't be. __________________

03-07-2008, 04:59 AM	#20
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	I would once again like to say thank you to SOE/Devs for the archtype change to PVP writs. definantly a big improvment!!

03-07-2008, 05:01 AM	#21
Brimestar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL (USA) Posts: 883	Yea servers crashing is really HAWT __________________ Create your Profile at MyArmedForces.com.

03-07-2008, 05:21 AM	#22
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	Pretty sure Venekor hasn't crashed. Nagafen's problem is just an overloaded server.

03-07-2008, 05:23 AM	#23
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	yeah of course its an improvement, 50 people only need to kill 6 players between them to complete a writ.gee thats a hard and really reward worthy i might add .what its an improvement for i dont know..improving giving away free tokens for nothing maybe

03-07-2008, 05:25 AM	#24
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	You have the option to raid up as well Csky.

03-07-2008, 05:32 AM	#25
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	LOL id quit before i ran around killing targets 50 vs 2 even if SoE gave me enough tokens for a full set of PVP gear for free..who'd want it if i had to play that way and call it PVP i want a challenge in PVP and formidable fights not to hold hands like a bunch of pansies hunting lesser targets and call myself a PVPer you guys have stooped to an all time low for GEAR

03-07-2008, 05:42 AM	#26
Shadow_Viper Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 438	Ahh I see, you want to try and force other players to play the way you want them to just because you dislike something. Raid vs raid PVP can be very challenging. As I said, you have the option of raiding up and hunting down enemy raids. FYI, I mostly solo.

03-07-2008, 06:03 AM	#27
bladechef Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 99	It's physically distressing for me to agree with Shadow_viper tbh, but here it is... Csky: With the number of raids running around since writ changes I think you would have quite an easy time of finding an evenly matched fight reguardless of how many folks are on your team. I think (and the past 3 nights would be proving me right) that you could easily take your 50-man raid and have no trouble finding an overwhelming force. Seems the only way you could raid the last few days and NOT run into an opposing raid would be to actively try to avoid it. BUT considering that you have stated previously that you personally play solo/dup exclusively (on a Paladin which is a dueling toon) I think more appropriately you would just rather have duels and/or 1v1-2v1s... that's what I gather from your previous posting. You've also stated on numerous occasions that overcons were the ones rolling over you in groups. I have a paladin in the lower side of T7 now who is doing very well @ lvl 74 with 115 AA and has yet to step into RoK. There are any number of different areas that have level-appropriate content and still (at least on Nagafen) see occasional PvP action. MMC, CMM, PoA, Most of the EoF instances... even Kaladim is quite nice for solo/duo paladin working up to lvl 80. Perhaps change your locale to fit your expectations, because as it stands most city players have token fever and are setting all else aside to zerg eachother nonstop until they've got all the PvP gear imaginable and backup pieces to boot. This most likely will still be the case unless they leave the writ givers away from the docks etc. (as they have just taken them out) You have options

03-07-2008, 06:13 AM	#28
Csky Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 420	quote "Raid vs raid PVP can be very challenging. As I said, you have the option of raiding up and hunting down enemy raids." ************************* they arent doing epic writs they are doing a writ that requires 6 kills between all 50 of them. if people want to fight in a raid then they should have epic writs IM [Removed for Content] because you think killing 6 people with a raid is any form of challenge edit: O wait! its 5 people..OMG how will they ever do it with only 50 people! fear the challenge and blade, i dont have a problem with getting rolled, it happens.. i have a problem with numbers being rewarded for no challenge no risk PVP

03-07-2008, 08:55 AM	#29
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	Vilesummon@Venekor wrote: Ironic that I was out pvping today...and not once but twice I saw the original poster in raids. I know one thing for sure, I never had above a heroic tag on my head. Darkhain, if you want to criticize something, it holds a little more credibility if you don't participate in what you are criticizing. Yes, I was at the dock for awhile today, but if you targetted me, you would have seen heroic and not epic...it is important to try to stick to the principle of your argument. At least I think it is. So should I stick with my group and get rolled by raid or untagged raid? Currently there are no reason, and we are fed up of of this, so now we are doing the same, just to led the others know how it looks like. I have nothing against people that like doing raid vs raid, but in EQ2 raid vs raid is not a viable option, because of lag server. Ok so what about first one/grp/raid that engaged the target get the credit instead of 50%+ of damage, works also fine for me.

03-07-2008, 08:59 AM	#30
Crimmyblues Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 45	I've never heard people complain that pvp was too large scale before.