The sound of crafting!

[Domino]

The great interview up today on 'Zam with our audio lead Cat Neri reminds me of a conversation I had with her last month.One of my very favorite features of RoK is the new adaptive combat music.  For those of you who don't adventure at all, it's worth going out there and killing a grass snake or something just to hear.  It's mentioned a bit in that interview link above.  Basically, the music looks at your level compared to the enemy, at the difficulty (solo, heroic, epic, etc) and your relative life compared to his, and changes the music second-by-second accordingly.  It makes each fight sound slightly different, and in those really close fights the exciting music has often had be on the edge of my seat!  In fact, a couple times I've intentionally taken a lot more damage than I needed just to enjoy the music picking up, heh.So anyway ... this led to a discussion of whether we could revamp the crafting music accordingly.  I've spent so long in tradeskill instances that I just turn my sound off entirely or I'd go bananas from the music in there, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.  What I'd like to see is for the instances to have no background music of their own, but for the crafting process itself to get adaptive music similar to the combat music.  Each class also has sound effects for the buffs, which could either be removed or could be adapted to blend in better (some of the scholar ones are a bit abrasive at the moment - but perhaps they could be changed to chimes, or something percussion-y for example).Now, I can't promise this will happen, because Cat's a very busy lady and works on more games than just EQ2.  And if it does happen, I can't promise a timeline either - with other game releases coming up and our own next expansion to look forward to also, there will be a lot of other stuff on her plate.However, here's an open question for discussion.  What kind of music would you like an adaptive crafting-based music to be based on?From my discussions with Cat I know the following:

• Very beat-based music that can change quickly is much easier (like the combat music) because it has to adapt on short notice.  Something like Enya with long, drawn-out melodies just wouldn't work well because it couldn't change smoothly and fast.
• Something fairly unobtrusive and subtle is probably good - probably not so exciting and climactic as the combat music, since we spend hours crafting, while combat is much more isolated fights with pauses in between.  It would have to be something that wouldn't drive us crazy listening to for hours.
• It can adapt based on key triggers, but what exactly those are is open to discussion.  Examples of things that can affect the intensity and transitions in the music might be:  your level relative to the recipe's (e.g. much quieter music if you're making greys; something more epic-sounding if you're attempting a recipe higher than your level); change of tempo or intensity if you lose pristine, or whenever you gain a new bar of progress, or when you successfully counter an event (or not); your power level; your health level.  Stuff that can be actually numerically measured in the game, in other words, which code can then make the music react to.

Links to samples of sounds or names/artists of specific pieces would probably be the best way to let folks know what you're thinking.  Just a random question which you can ignore if you like, but if you're interested, please feel free to comment! 

[Spyderbite]

DominoDev wrote:

However, here's an open question for discussion.  What kind of music would you like an adaptive crafting-based music to be based on?

"Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered In A Cave Grovvin' With A Pict"?? Personally, I have music turned off in game so Muzak in the tradeskill instances won't effect me either way. But, this did pique some curiosity. Sony (corporate) has a record label. Is it easier to suggest artists from the Sony label than others? I'd suspect that licensing might become an issue.. even vague adaptations of recorded music.(heading this off at the pass before it starts.. YES.. I AM a DJ!! srsly) XD

[Domino]

The music would be original, not based off any existing artist.  I just meant that suggestions or links to existing music would only be useful to communicate the general style you had in mind - what would be created would be different and unique.  (And non-vocal, I should have added - instrumental only.)

[Amphibia]

I don't know about music, but I'd love the sound of toilet flush when you fail at a combine....  (I usually have my sound off when I craft, to be honest. Just can't listen to that muza... I mean music for much more than 5 minutes before I go nuts. Maybe a few different tracks or something? No idea how that would work, though.)

[Spyderbite]

Amphibia wrote:

I don't know, but I'd love the sound of toilet flush when you fail at a combine.... 

You owe me .5 ounces of beer, Amp! *wipes off screen*I understand what you're saying, Domino. I didn't mean to swoop in with a flurry of lawyers or anything. I didn't expect to hear Aerosmith blasting one day or anything. Although it would be fun to walk in to the tradeskill instance and get hit with "Welcome to the Machine". I don't have any links yet.. But, I'll edit this with them when I find them. But, there are some really good melodies from Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman & Howe that I always thought would make great adapted musical scores for a crafting environment.I could also do a few recordings of myself singing in the shower.. wotcha think?!

[Saev]

DominoDev wrote:

The music would be original, not based off any existing artist.  I just meant that suggestions or links to existing music would only be useful to communicate the general style you had in mind - what would be created would be different and unique.  (And non-vocal, I should have added - instrumental only.)

Aaaw, I was going to suggest 'Working in a Coalmine" at the forge. Still, the style might work.

As a bonus, it could pop up while you were harvesting ore.

[Sayne]

Awww, so the provisioners can't have "Les Poissons" playing while they cook away? what a pity

 

As far as music goes - there should definitely be some sort of great big triumphant bellowing when you successfully counter a Favor of Innovation or a Flawless combine.  Maybe a somewhat less triumphant call when you counter Insight, but still something cool sounding.  French horns are fabulous for this ^_^

[Jehannum]

Shouldn't it be possible to use classical pieces, or at least bits of them?  I'm pretty sure most of the original copyright holders don't care...

I don't know about anyone else but the existing crafting music keeps making me think of someone plucking out "Walking on Broken Glass" with no sense of rhythm or tune. 

I have the following suggestions:

Provisioner - Whiskey in the Jar-o (and if you think this was originally done by Metallica or Thin Lizzy, think again.)

Tailor - Greensleeves

Tinkerer - Spring (Vivaldi) ...... (waits for the reaction to a horrid pun)

Weaponsmith - Ride of the Valkyries.  Heaven knows they get few enough other rewards, at least they could listen to something uplifting as they craft. 

Armorsmith - Dude looks like a Lady 1812 Overture

Carpenter - (They love to be) Close to You.  (ok, no.  First it's copyright, and second it's lame.  But hey, it's a great joke, no?) 

And there's got to be room for derivatives of the Wm Tell Overture and other blood-pumpy tunes.

[mellowknees72]

Amphibia wrote:

I don't know about music, but I'd love the sound of toilet flush when you fail at a combine....  (I usually have my sound off when I craft, to be honest. Just can't listen to that muza... I mean music for much more than 5 minutes before I go nuts. Maybe a few different tracks or something? No idea how that would work, though.)

How about a good old-fashioned "wah-wah-waaaaaaah".

And I had no idea that there is any music in any of the crafting zones.  I've never played EQ (EQ1 or EQ2) with music on.  I might change my mind about it, though, if there was crafting music that was really cool and made the process more fun.  I like the whole idea of tradeskills, but I get so incredibly bored standing at one of the work stations...I just can't do it for very long.  Maybe a little musical reward would help with that.

One suggestion: have different types of music for the different tradeskills.  Cooking music should be different from armor making music, for example.  I mean, if it can be done reasonably.  Otherwise people with multiple TS characters are going to be bored out of their guords with it inside of a week.  A little variety among the classes would be really neat!

[Bodracoran]

Doc Gibs and the Lamhfada Live Band?

When I counter things will I shout "Bam!"?

[Zheen]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

However, here's an open question for discussion.  What kind of music would you like an adaptive crafting-based music to be based on?

"Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered In A Cave Grovvin' With A Pict"?? " />Personally, I have music turned off in game so Muzak in the tradeskill instances won't effect me either way. But, this did pique some curiosity. Sony (corporate) has a record label. Is it easier to suggest artists from the Sony label than others? I'd suspect that licensing might become an issue.. even vague adaptations of recorded music.(heading this off at the pass before it starts.. YES.. I AM a DJ!! srsly) XD

That is the second time you have mentioned classic Pink Floyd! You definitely have good taste my friend.

[Oakleafe]

Hello, Uncle Killjoy here.  From other posts it looks like so many players have sound turned off, play remotely (don't mean bot, I mean they have a wireless keyboard and multi-task - and yes there are "bots" but that's another issue entirely) or have their own tunes on the go that any effort directed here would be effort not directed on things most tradeskillers have been requesting.So, by all means place this on the wish list but at the end not at the front.And if you do add it at all please give at least 3 player selectable (tick box wotsits) options:1. Old skool (i.e. to have the current crafting sounds)2. Whatever new thang (i.e. Whatever Domino/whoever chose from the the royalty free bucket)3. The funny stuff people are posting here (Working in a coal mine!  LOL  )

[Vinh]

I generally don't have any game sounds up since I usually have the tv or my own stereo in the background going.  But I have been trying to get into it more.  I'm not sure why I don't really since in EQ1 I listened to it all the time...  but overall I like the idea.  And will have to check out this new combat music!

I don't have any specifics in mind, but when I heard scholar, chimes popped into my head too.  Something a bit deeper for working at a forge I'd imagine, tuba?  And maybe something with a harp or lutes for the woodworking table?  I like the idea of having music a bit more complex for more challenging recipes as opposed to grays.

And lastly, how about having special musical sounds for the first time you complete a recipe, that coincides with the bonus exp?

[Amphibia]

Saevan wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

The music would be original, not based off any existing artist.  I just meant that suggestions or links to existing music would only be useful to communicate the general style you had in mind - what would be created would be different and unique.  (And non-vocal, I should have added - instrumental only.)

Aaaw, I was going to suggest 'Working in a Coalmine" at the forge. Still, the style might work.

As a bonus, it could pop up while you were harvesting ore.

Oooh, and "I'm a Lumberjack" at the woodworking table then?

[Spyderbite]

Cutter@Venekor wrote:

That is the second time you have mentioned classic Pink Floyd! You definitely have good taste my friend.

I've got some pretty poor taste too. I'm a huge Hall & Oats fan and I still think Boston puts out quality music. To make matters worse, I still follow Asia when they tour. Great ideas so far. However, I still have to wear an adult diaper when I harvest cause pulling up a rare scares the bejeezus out of me every time. So, I'm going to go with the concensus on what everyone else thinks is best. Edit: Since Cal got a LoN card.. if Cat comes up with something original for Alchemists, can you title it "SpyderBite's Beaker"? I can already see all the hawt college girls dancing to it in the clubs!

[woolf2k]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Cutter@Venekor wrote:

That is the second time you have mentioned classic Pink Floyd! You definitely have good taste my friend.

I've got some pretty poor taste too. I'm a huge Hall & Oats fan and I still think Boston puts out quality music. To make matters worse, I still follow Asia when they tour. Great ideas so far. However, I still have to wear an adult diaper when I harvest cause pulling up a rare scares the bejeezus out of me every time. So, I'm going to go with the concensus on what everyone else thinks is best. " />Edit: Since Cal got a LoN card.. if Cat comes up with something original for Alchemists, can you title it "SpyderBite's Beaker"? I can already see all the hawt college girls dancing to it in the clubs!

All greats there... LOL... Boston, Asia, Hall & Oats... oh here she comes, watch out boy she'll chew you up!...I love the idea off having music. I pretty much tune out the current musak simple cause it's repetitive and eventually gets' boring. Hopefully, you'd be able to change the tradeskilling music for the tradeskill your on. so the forge would get something different than the chemistry table. Then you can create music that works with those... like forge can have something industrial sounding and the script writing could be something ethereal... and so on... off hand I can think of movies or musical artists you've had those types of sounds and instrumentals in there songs... like Wings/Paul mcCarthyEnyaQueenBeachesLOL - phantom of the opera the theme for the chemistry table. LOL... oh, I can't think of more at the momment but maybe I can find some samples...

[Snapdragyn]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Cutter@Venekor wrote:

That is the second time you have mentioned classic Pink Floyd! You definitely have good taste my friend.

I've got some pretty poor taste too. I'm a huge Hall & Oats fan and I still think Boston puts out quality music. To make matters worse, I still follow Asia when they tour. Great ideas so far. However, I still have to wear an adult diaper when I harvest cause pulling up a rare scares the bejeezus out of me every time. So, I'm going to go with the concensus on what everyone else thinks is best. " width="15" height="15" />Edit: Since Cal got a LoN card.. if Cat comes up with something original for Alchemists, can you title it "SpyderBite's Beaker"? I can already see all the hawt college girls dancing to it in the clubs!

You know, I haven't heard that sound in ages (I found some option to disable it... somewhere; I still here normal environmental sounds, but no game music so maybe it's under that). Just last night while harvesting for the rares for my TS epic (15 minutes for the first half of them, then 2 hours for the rest - shoot me) I thought to myself, 'Self, having that sound on might save you from missing a rare due to fatigue!' Now that you've reminded me of how loud it was, I think next time I have that little thought the reply will be 'Hey, Mr. Heart Attack Seeker, SHUT IT!'

[Spyderbite]

Funken@Unrest wrote:

Wings/Paul mcCarthyEnyaQueenBeachesLOL - phantom of the opera the theme for the chemistry table. LOL...

Ooooohhh... I just had a great idea for Provisioner! Thanks Funken! "Fat bottom girls you make.." Ummmm... *looks around at all the angry women* Ok.. not such a good idea after all. :/

[Lodrelhai]

The Rivervale music from EQ1!Figure the majority of us are going to hear the "doing well" music most of the time, to judge by the number of comments that crafting is too easy.  And it's such a fun, catchy little tune!  When a combine is going bad, maybe switch to Sixteen Tons.

[Smirkey_of_Nektulos]

Cutter@Venekor wrote:

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

DominoDev wrote:

However, here's an open question for discussion.  What kind of music would you like an adaptive crafting-based music to be based on?

"Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered In A Cave Grovvin' With A Pict"?? " />Personally, I have music turned off in game so Muzak in the tradeskill instances won't effect me either way. But, this did pique some curiosity. Sony (corporate) has a record label. Is it easier to suggest artists from the Sony label than others? I'd suspect that licensing might become an issue.. even vague adaptations of recorded music.(heading this off at the pass before it starts.. YES.. I AM a DJ!! srsly) XD

That is the second time you have mentioned classic Pink Floyd! You definitely have good taste my friend.

Even better, he mentioned Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe!!Guy knows his stuff, I tell ya that!

[KerowynnKaotic]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

Funken@Unrest wrote:

Wings/Paul mcCarthyEnyaQueenBeachesLOL - phantom of the opera the theme for the chemistry table. LOL...

Ooooohhh... I just had a great idea for Provisioner! Thanks Funken! "Fat bottom girls you make.." Ummmm... *looks around at all the angry women* Ok.. not such a good idea after all. :/

I have NO problem at all with that song ..

But, otherwise have no issues/suggestions with the music.  

I enjoy what there is .. I enjoy my ipod.  I switch back and forth to in-game music to just my own music. 

As long as it's not the Lavastorm music, I'm happy to listen to it.  

[Jenarie]

Lodrelhai wrote:

The Rivervale music from EQ1!

Perfect!  It's impossible to dislike this music... it would be like hating Disneyland!

[Spyderbite]

Smirkey_of_Nektulos wrote:

Even better, he mentioned Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman and Howe!!Guy knows his stuff, I tell ya that!

Ooohh.. a fan! I'll give you a head's up (via PM) next time I'm asked to fill in on one of the classic rock XM radio stations. I had a pretty big following at one time before I started moving all over the continent. Just to tease you audiophiles further... How about..Jeweler - .38 Special "Stone Cold Believer"Provisioner - 10,000 Maniacs "Candy Everybody Wants" or some Buffet "Cheeseburger in Paradise"General.. perhaps a TS background or entry music - AC/DC "Who Made Who"Carpenter or Woodworker - Hit The Switch "Mr. Abrasive"Ok.. enough with the theme play... Besides ABWH.. I think there are a few other tunes that would work in nicely.For example, Zepplin's "The Bridge" would be a great melody while working on a recipe.And John Wetton's Rendez-Vous as well.The last two are my serious suggestions.. the rest are just the usual jibes to keep all my fellow tradeskillers chuckling.

[Powers]

DominoDev wrote:

What I'd like to see is for the instances to have no background music of their own, but for the crafting process itself to get adaptive music similar to the combat music.

Not to put the kibosh on what could be a really neat idea, but there are two problems:1) I like the music in the tradeskill instances, and would hate to only have music while doing a combine.2) Not all crafting stations are in tradeskill instances anyway.  Are you going to shut the background music off in all zones that have crafting stations (including Kelethin, Gorowyn, and Neriak)?I don't see why the current background music has to go away.  Background music wasn't taken away to accommodate the adaptive combat music, after all.  Just suspend it when actively doing a combine, like it's suspended when in combat.As for a base, why not base it off the current background music?  =)  It's light and rhythmic and should be easy to adapt.Powers  &8^]

[Calthine]

I've got my music set not to loop, so I only hear the music one time through.  But I like the idea of reactive crafting music.

[Megera]

... provisioners could have some sweeny todd  Worst pies in london for a bad combine, and god its good for a good one. ^_^

[TheSco]

When you start the crafting, a solo musical instrument plays for the first bar.  The second bar has more instruments playing and so forth on the next bar.  At the very end you have many instruments playing to final explosion ending.  And if you are a bad crafter and vary from one bar to the next it might feel like you were creating music as well as trying to not fail at crafting.

Ps.  I want Woodworkers to have recipes to make music boxes.

[bks6721]

I'm probably one of the few that actually like the music in the tradeskill instance now.

[Meirril]

I only have one request.

No Rivervale Shanty.

I had to wait in Teran's Grasp for someone to get their solstice combine, and it was Rivervale Shanty all over again. Its enjoyable for about 5 minuits. For a former EQ1 halfling, its just pure torture after that.

[blithe]

Amphibia wrote:

I don't know about music, but I'd love the sound of toilet flush when you fail at a combine....  (I usually have my sound off when I craft, to be honest. Just can't listen to that muza... I mean music for much more than 5 minutes before I go nuts. Maybe a few different tracks or something? No idea how that would work, though.)

lloll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WOULD LOVE THAT. ^^^^^^^^^i will subscribe for antoher month if you do this domino