Does troub have anything to help group casters land spells like an illu illuminate?

eiek · 01-20-2008, 03:24 PM

If so what is the spell's name and is it a single target debuff or a group buff spell?

Bladewind · 01-20-2008, 03:47 PM

In t7 it was called dove song, not sure what it is in other tiers. It adds to focus and all casting techniques (ministration, disruption, subjugation, and ordination).

Pik'ee · 01-20-2008, 03:53 PM

Asking a troub to run that song will however make them hate you forever.It's effectiveness is minimal in the extreme.

Menaelin · 01-20-2008, 07:54 PM

Dove Song isn't as useless as a lot of people think it is, because in addition to making spells easier to land on enemies, certain skills have practical uses (for example, +ministration makes healing spells cost less mana). That said, I don't use it unless I'm in a group where people are a little bit low for the mobs we're taking on.

eiek · 01-20-2008, 08:32 PM

thank you all for your responses

I'm not sure it's welcome here but my intent on finding out if illuminate is equivalent to (now that I know the name) dove song is because I'm reading on pvp forums that spells have a hard time landing on ppl at max level. Instead of posting on the pvp forums if troubs have a spell like illuminate, I thought you guys could answer me best.

Does anyone play a illusionist also? I'd like to know if dove song and illuminate are equivalent in effectiveness? Or so darn close that it wont be noticable? This would be my hope. I hope someone knows

Pik'ee · 01-20-2008, 09:27 PM

Ahh, you didn't say you play PVP, I believe I've heard Dove Song and it's predecessors/upgrade are actually really good for pvp. I don't play pvp so can't say for sure.

Artist · 01-21-2008, 06:34 AM

IIRC Illuminate reduces the resistability of your spells by 50%. SOE will never give such ability to troubadors. Dove not even close to it.

Dove's is ok in pvp. However if you are serous, always open with Sybil's Slowing Chant (or it's upgrades) and keep it on all victims all the time in all situations. However if they have high mental resistance you have no chance no matter how hard you try. I never duel again with someone who resists everything I cast. In party situation just let them face your uber-buffed friends, while using irresistible stun and trying to land long-lasting stifle.

(I'm talking about low-level pvp as a troubador, to be accurate.)

Galim · 01-23-2008, 07:19 AM

I use dove song and its upgrade (magic song or something similar in T8 ) all the time. I have notice the difference in the parse.

Pik'ee · 01-23-2008, 09:12 AM

Galimir wrote:

I use dove song and its upgrade (magic song or something similar in T8 ) all the time. I have notice the difference in the parse.

Interesting. In Veehsan's Peak, I tend to get roughly 95-6% hitrate on spell attacks, and it's only that low due to ACT lumping in our 2 CAs that deal mental damage in with our actual spells. Shrill, Thunderous etc tend to have a 100% hitrate, even on 87x4 mobs. Not entirely sure you can really improve on that.

Galim · 01-23-2008, 09:41 AM

I havent raided T8 yet. I noticed a difference in dps (my own and groups) during T7 raids. I havent been playing for a month, and havent raided in longer - its amazing how quickly things are forgotten. I think its warlocks that get a similar buff. At least, there is a class that has a similar buff, and if im raiding in the same group with them I dont use it. Tbh, Im not a big studier of parses, I mean, I look at types of damage and overall damage, but I dont break down the results in to percentages etc, could it be that Dove song buff increases the damage as well as the likelihood of the spell landing?

For soloing, I use it a lot. I get virtually no resists with it up, which is not so important for the DDs, but for debuffs and mezz especially I want them to land.

Kulaf · 01-24-2008, 07:17 AM

There is of course Spell Rebuff.

Jehannum · 01-24-2008, 01:44 PM

Galimir wrote:

I havent raided T8 yet. I noticed a difference in dps (my own and groups) during T7 raids. I havent been playing for a month, and havent raided in longer - its amazing how quickly things are forgotten. I think its warlocks that get a similar buff. At least, there is a class that has a similar buff, and if im raiding in the same group with them I dont use it. Tbh, Im not a big studier of parses, I mean, I look at types of damage and overall damage, but I dont break down the results in to percentages etc, could it be that Dove song buff increases the damage as well as the likelihood of the spell landing?
For soloing, I use it a lot. I get virtually no resists with it up, which is not so important for the DDs, but for debuffs and mezz especially I want them to land.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's warlocks that get the other cast-skill buff; I seem to recall my roomie being able to add almost as much skill as I can (and what with diminishing returns, if he's in my group I ditch Dove)

I've noticed the exact same thing with respect to soloing though; I've got my mez mastered, specced in AA for reduced resists and the rest, but it still gets resisted sometimes (perhaps 5-10% of the time) when I'm mezzing even a blue solo mob. When I fire up Dove, it *almost* never gets resisted (~2%), even by yellow heroics. I know I fire it up when we're taking down T/X/D and she's (the one who can be mezzed) never once resisted. Charm pulling to split is the same way; I've been pasted by a bad pull once or twice without Dove up, never once while it's running.

Menaelin · 01-25-2008, 01:58 PM

And again, stuff like +ministration is going to help your healer out bigtime in terms of preserving power, especially if your healer happens to be a Fury, which is likely if you're in the mage group. Druids are the least mana efficient priests in the game, so anything you can do to lower the cost of their healing spells is much appreciated. That said, it may not be at the absolute top of your list of priorities. A Fury should be focusing almost solely on power pool when it comes to stats anyway.

Tri · 01-25-2008, 06:31 PM

I find dove song useless in the end game when everyone has at least adept III spells and allready plenty of + skill items. A druid's HoTs ( heal over time ) are very mana efficient,that is if you are not obsessed with having your tank's life bar always at max.Dove song has 2 uses, eventually a third :- PvP, a single resist can make the difference- Leveling up, when most players don't bother upgrading their spells- If you are about to burn an encounter you can always cast Dove pre-pullin order to squeeze a bit more dps out of Potm and debuff cycling

Cadori Seraphim · 01-25-2008, 06:38 PM

I dont see how this spell (lvl 72 Song of Magic) is worthlessHere are the stats:http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.h...l?eq2item=75326

Tri · 01-26-2008, 10:30 AM

"There is only one number used to determine your magical attacks. Both magic mitigation and magical avoidance are determined by a mobs resistance to that type of damage. As with physical mitigation, debuffs to magical damage types are very effective allowing them to be debuffs to a sub-zero number regardless of mob level. With no true magial avoidance number simply debuffing a mobs mitigation to these lower numbers allows for you to obtain near 100% to hit rates for magical attacks. Making + to casting skill unnecessary as long as you can debuff its mit through the normal methods. Making buffs like dove song useless." Quoted From BalladsIt is an almost useless spell as you will always have something more usefull to cast, unless playing in PvP like the OP.

01-20-2008, 03:47 PM	#2
Bladewind Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 783	In t7 it was called dove song, not sure what it is in other tiers. It adds to focus and all casting techniques (ministration, disruption, subjugation, and ordination). __________________

01-20-2008, 07:54 PM	#4
Menaelin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	Dove Song isn't as useless as a lot of people think it is, because in addition to making spells easier to land on enemies, certain skills have practical uses (for example, +ministration makes healing spells cost less mana). That said, I don't use it unless I'm in a group where people are a little bit low for the mobs we're taking on. __________________ Yukio [Divinity] -- 70 Fury -- 70 Carpenter Antonia Bayle

01-23-2008, 07:19 AM	#8
Galim General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 47	I use dove song and its upgrade (magic song or something similar in T8 ) all the time. I have notice the difference in the parse. __________________

01-23-2008, 09:12 AM	#9
Pik'ee Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Galimir wrote: I use dove song and its upgrade (magic song or something similar in T8 ) all the time. I have notice the difference in the parse. Interesting. In Veehsan's Peak, I tend to get roughly 95-6% hitrate on spell attacks, and it's only that low due to ACT lumping in our 2 CAs that deal mental damage in with our actual spells. Shrill, Thunderous etc tend to have a 100% hitrate, even on 87x4 mobs. Not entirely sure you can really improve on that.

01-23-2008, 09:41 AM	#10
Galim General Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 47	I havent raided T8 yet. I noticed a difference in dps (my own and groups) during T7 raids. I havent been playing for a month, and havent raided in longer - its amazing how quickly things are forgotten. I think its warlocks that get a similar buff. At least, there is a class that has a similar buff, and if im raiding in the same group with them I dont use it. Tbh, Im not a big studier of parses, I mean, I look at types of damage and overall damage, but I dont break down the results in to percentages etc, could it be that Dove song buff increases the damage as well as the likelihood of the spell landing? For soloing, I use it a lot. I get virtually no resists with it up, which is not so important for the DDs, but for debuffs and mezz especially I want them to land. __________________

01-20-2008, 03:24 PM	#1
eiek General Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2	If so what is the spell's name and is it a single target debuff or a group buff spell?

01-20-2008, 03:53 PM	#3
Pik'ee Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Asking a troub to run that song will however make them hate you forever.It's effectiveness is minimal in the extreme.

01-20-2008, 08:32 PM	#5
eiek General Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2	thank you all for your responses I'm not sure it's welcome here but my intent on finding out if illuminate is equivalent to (now that I know the name) dove song is because I'm reading on pvp forums that spells have a hard time landing on ppl at max level. Instead of posting on the pvp forums if troubs have a spell like illuminate, I thought you guys could answer me best. Does anyone play a illusionist also? I'd like to know if dove song and illuminate are equivalent in effectiveness? Or so darn close that it wont be noticable? This would be my hope. I hope someone knows

01-20-2008, 09:27 PM	#6
Pik'ee Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 99	Ahh, you didn't say you play PVP, I believe I've heard Dove Song and it's predecessors/upgrade are actually really good for pvp. I don't play pvp so can't say for sure.

01-21-2008, 06:34 AM	#7
Artist Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 32	IIRC Illuminate reduces the resistability of your spells by 50%. SOE will never give such ability to troubadors. Dove not even close to it. Dove's is ok in pvp. However if you are serous, always open with Sybil's Slowing Chant (or it's upgrades) and keep it on all victims all the time in all situations. However if they have high mental resistance you have no chance no matter how hard you try. I never duel again with someone who resists everything I cast. In party situation just let them face your uber-buffed friends, while using irresistible stun and trying to land long-lasting stifle. (I'm talking about low-level pvp as a troubador, to be accurate.)

01-24-2008, 07:17 AM	#11
Kulaf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 387	There is of course Spell Rebuff. __________________

01-24-2008, 01:44 PM	#12
Jehannum Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	Galimir wrote: I havent raided T8 yet. I noticed a difference in dps (my own and groups) during T7 raids. I havent been playing for a month, and havent raided in longer - its amazing how quickly things are forgotten. I think its warlocks that get a similar buff. At least, there is a class that has a similar buff, and if im raiding in the same group with them I dont use it. Tbh, Im not a big studier of parses, I mean, I look at types of damage and overall damage, but I dont break down the results in to percentages etc, could it be that Dove song buff increases the damage as well as the likelihood of the spell landing? For soloing, I use it a lot. I get virtually no resists with it up, which is not so important for the DDs, but for debuffs and mezz especially I want them to land. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's warlocks that get the other cast-skill buff; I seem to recall my roomie being able to add almost as much skill as I can (and what with diminishing returns, if he's in my group I ditch Dove) I've noticed the exact same thing with respect to soloing though; I've got my mez mastered, specced in AA for reduced resists and the rest, but it still gets resisted sometimes (perhaps 5-10% of the time) when I'm mezzing even a blue solo mob. When I fire up Dove, it almost never gets resisted (~2%), even by yellow heroics. I know I fire it up when we're taking down T/X/D and she's (the one who can be mezzed) never once resisted. Charm pulling to split is the same way; I've been pasted by a bad pull once or twice without Dove up, never once while it's running.

01-25-2008, 01:58 PM	#13
Menaelin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 133	And again, stuff like +ministration is going to help your healer out bigtime in terms of preserving power, especially if your healer happens to be a Fury, which is likely if you're in the mage group. Druids are the least mana efficient priests in the game, so anything you can do to lower the cost of their healing spells is much appreciated. That said, it may not be at the absolute top of your list of priorities. A Fury should be focusing almost solely on power pool when it comes to stats anyway. __________________ Yukio [Divinity] -- 70 Fury -- 70 Carpenter Antonia Bayle

01-25-2008, 06:31 PM	#14
Tri General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 156	I find dove song useless in the end game when everyone has at least adept III spells and allready plenty of + skill items. A druid's HoTs ( heal over time ) are very mana efficient,that is if you are not obsessed with having your tank's life bar always at max.Dove song has 2 uses, eventually a third :- PvP, a single resist can make the difference- Leveling up, when most players don't bother upgrading their spells- If you are about to burn an encounter you can always cast Dove pre-pullin order to squeeze a bit more dps out of Potm and debuff cycling

01-25-2008, 06:38 PM	#15
Cadori Seraphim Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 965	I dont see how this spell (lvl 72 Song of Magic) is worthlessHere are the stats:http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.h...l?eq2item=75326

01-26-2008, 10:30 AM	#16
Tri General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 156	"There is only one number used to determine your magical attacks. Both magic mitigation and magical avoidance are determined by a mobs resistance to that type of damage. As with physical mitigation, debuffs to magical damage types are very effective allowing them to be debuffs to a sub-zero number regardless of mob level. With no true magial avoidance number simply debuffing a mobs mitigation to these lower numbers allows for you to obtain near 100% to hit rates for magical attacks. Making + to casting skill unnecessary as long as you can debuff its mit through the normal methods. Making buffs like dove song useless." Quoted From BalladsIt is an almost useless spell as you will always have something more usefull to cast, unless playing in PvP like the OP.