Coercer: Charm pet breaking...

Xephier · 01-18-2008, 05:07 AM

I have a couple issues on this subject, for one, well, i am kinda new to being a chanter, my highest has been 26, but is there any way to make a macro to target a recently charmed pet, for instance one that just broke your charm? cuz i keep having to manually target it Then mez, if i could make a macro to target it i could have the same macro mez it so it'd be ready to re-charm, but the way it is i find the thing has time to get a hit on me by the time i get my mez off, which in some cases could be fatal.. especially if the mez resists the first time.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)My second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)

Mordeak · 01-18-2008, 06:42 AM

lazarus104 wrote:

if i could make a macro to target it i could have the same macro mez it so it'd be ready to re-charm, but the way it is i find the thing has time to get a hit on me by the time i get my mez off, which in some cases could be fatal.. especially if the mez resists the first time.Do you charm ^^^ mobs? Because as the charm mechanic works now, the spell reduses the mobs health to that of a no-arrow mob and the quality of it's spells/CA's is determined by the quality of your charm spell, so not much use in charming a ^^^ mob.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)Never had much use for a macro as I target through my pet if I have one upMy second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)Uhm, your job in the group is CC and buffing up the tank and dps classes in the group. Your pet will only take up 3 concentration slots that could be used for buffing the groups dps.

If you are wondering, I have a level 36 coercer so I'm not making this up

metacell · 01-18-2008, 06:47 AM

If I understand it right, coercers don't often use pets in groups or raids. In groups or raids, coercers are more of a support class, granting power regen, dps buffs, etc, while still doing a decent amount of DPS on their own. Charmed pets seem to be mostly used for soloing, and I think the devs made charm break because unbreakable charm would make coercers too powerful. As it is now, coercers have to trade the power of charmed pets for the risk of the charm breaking. Also, I assume you have upgraded your charm spell to at least Adept III? On lower tiers, not many spells are worth upgrading, but Charm is definitely one of them.EDIT: If you can't find a better solution to your problem, try making a macro that says "/target Mobname", and edit it by hand each time you want to charm a different mob. I'm not sure what happens if there are many mobs by the same name in line of sight, but hopefully it will target the nearest one.

Sigunn · 01-18-2008, 06:49 AM

I do not know how or if you can make such a macro. But here are a few suggestions to improve your situation.

1. Put max AA into improving Charm. This will lessen the risk of breaking.

2. Put as many AA as you can into improving Subjugation. Get Subjugation gear and adornments if you can. This also helps keeping Charm from breaking.

3. Some pets tend to break more often than others. I guess its because of their Mental Resist or something. If you are keeping a pet that breaks a lot, you can switch targets after sic'ing it on the mob, so you target through your pet as you would a MT. That way, if the pet breaks, you already have it in target and dont have to search for it manually.

4. When the pet breaks, start with a root. The root is faster then the mezz, and this should give you time to mezz it, then recharm. Remember to cancel the mez and root after you recharm, otherwise it will be standing there until they wear off, and that could kill you if you are in a mob fight.

5. Until you feel comfortable with these techniques, do not keep a pet in a group. Use the concentration slots for your melee buffs or your hate decrease buffs on your groupmates instead.

I think a Charm spell without the risk of ever breaking would be overpowered. There are of pets at higher lvls that do LOTS of damage. Coercer pet DPS is supposed to be a risk/reward thing.

Oh, and upgrade Charm to Master 1! If you solo a lot it is definitely worth every copper.

Rahatmattata · 01-18-2008, 06:54 AM

Most groups do such weak dps when leveling up because they don't bother to upgrade spells/gear in many cases you're better off charming a wizard pet than buffing the group's meager dps. Assuming a solid caster pet is available, and master 1 charm of course.Obviously, in an ideal group you're better off buffing the rest of the group... but in pickup groups leveling through low-mid tiers you will be very lucky to get anything that resembles an "ideal" group. When I leveled my coercer, a charmed wizard mob would usually outparse most people in the group, and that doesnt include my dps.When fighting with a pet, target through your pet. When he breaks mez/re-charm/root/stun throw down some CC and get it locked down. Takes some practice, but if you keep your spells and gear top notch so you can actually take a few swings from a heroic and get fewer resists, you should be fine.There are other options as well that help with charm duration/resistablity and spell resistability, and boosting your subjegation as much as you can (hard to do in lower tiers) helps.

Rahatmattata · 01-18-2008, 06:56 AM

Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote:

On lower tiers, not many spells are worth upgrading, but Charm is definitely one of them.

This is the mentality I was talking about in my above post, why many players have weak characters when they are leveling up, and therefore chaming a solid pet is often more beneficial than buffing these players.

Taharn · 01-18-2008, 11:41 PM

Mordeak wrote:

lazarus104 wrote:
Do you charm ^^^ mobs? Because as the charm mechanic works now, the spell reduses the mobs health to that of a no-arrow mob and the quality of it's spells/CA's is determined by the quality of your charm spell, so not much use in charming a ^^^ mob.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)Never had much use for a macro as I target through my pet if I have one upMy second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)Uhm, your job in the group is CC and buffing up the tank and dps classes in the group. Your pet will only take up 3 concentration slots that could be used for buffing the groups dps.
If you are wondering, I have a level 36 coercer so I'm not making this up

Just to clarify a couple of points here. Our group mental buff used to, a long time again, increase the chance that the pet will break. It doesn't anymore. That being said, it's often a much better idea to put your dps buff on your pet (and dont forget your hate gain one). There are situations where it's ok to charm in a group. If you're doing overland areas and you have access to caster solo mobs, definetly charm one. Some (fewer as you get higher) instances have solo mobs scattered throughout. Ruins of Varsoon comes to mind. Or even better, Court of Innovation. The mechana-magica hunters at the beginning of the zone are solo mobs, and can often parse as high as one of the dps classes just by themselves...definetly worth charming.

Xephier · 01-19-2008, 08:53 PM

Personaly i dont see how an unbreakable charm would be in any way 'overpowered'.. i charm mobs(even heroics..) that apparently do as much damage and have as much life as a solo mob... the hell is overpowered about that?? You want overpowered, try illusionists on pvp.. That's overpowered. And the way i figgure it if you can charm the mob at all, then an unbreakable charm would be no more overpowered then one that breaks, the breakability is nothing more then anoying, just makes it so i cant charm heroics without the risk of killing off my group(even though as noted, the mobs act as solo's when charmed..) If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state?

Sigunn · 01-20-2008, 01:42 AM

lazarus104 wrote:

If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state?

You got a point there, Lazarus. /nod.

Taharn · 01-20-2008, 11:06 AM

The problem then is, if you make them 'unbreakable' and the heroic charm hits as hard, or half as hard as a regular heroic.. then they'll make solo charmeds hit as hard, or half as hard as regular solos. You know that's exactly how SOE would make it SMILEY

And to that, I say no thanks. I enjoy my solo mobs hitting for 1k and nuking for 5.

Rahatmattata · 01-21-2008, 01:23 PM

lazarus104 wrote:

Personaly i dont see how an unbreakable charm would be in any way 'overpowered'.. i charm mobs(even heroics..) that apparently do as much damage and have as much life as a solo mob... the hell is overpowered about that?? You want overpowered, try illusionists on pvp.. That's overpowered. And the way i figgure it if you can charm the mob at all, then an unbreakable charm would be no more overpowered then one that breaks, the breakability is nothing more then anoying, just makes it so i cant charm heroics without the risk of killing off my group(even though as noted, the mobs act as solo's when charmed..) If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state?

Where to begin...Master1 charmed caster (solo or heroic) will nuke as hard if not harder than an uncharmed heroic caster.A charmed mob keeping it's up arrow mods would be stupidly overpowered.Charm breaks because the coercer is constantly using almost all his concentration keeping the mob dominated and bent to his will. Sometimes the mob will have a success "willpower" check.Want unbreakable charm? Get master1 and 5AA into charm. That's as close as you will get.Would be nice though if there was an endline eof AA that guarenteed charm will last x% of the total duration. Like maybe guarenteed 10min of charm on a 30min duration.Charm breaks can be exciting. Nothing like soloing a yellow ^^^ with another yellow ^^^ add when charm poofs... and you control the situation and win.

Trepan · 01-25-2008, 07:10 PM

As pointed out above, the best strat for using pets is to keep it targeted as much as possible. Target through your tank and send in the pet (I have /pet attack on a macro along with Whatever my current Stroke spell is) and then immediately F1, F1 to get back to your pet (F1 to target yourself, F1 when you are targeted will target your pet [but only WHILE it is a pet, if its not targetted when it breaks, you can't double tap F1 to get to him... then its a frantic tab, F8 or mouse hunt - or a calm and quiet wait for the revive window to display and activate]. Why keep the pet targetted?My other favorite pet macro is one that throws a single target stun, warns the group that I'm re-negotiating the pet's contract and then casts charm. If the pet breaks, 99% of the time I've got it targeted and with one key I block its damage to me and gain enough time to recharm.

LordXenite · 01-28-2008, 01:31 AM

At first, I thought the Coercer was quite interesting to play. I've got my Coercer to level 11,but just got really fed up with seeing *RESIST* all the time, and with my Charms breakingat all the wrong moments. The speed of the Charm spell also left me without being able toactually Charm fast enough and not die.

I play a Charmer character in a different game, where charming mobs as a concept isimplemented differently than in EQ2. I won't go into details, or name the game, I justwish being a Coercer didn't include a LOT more dying than any of my other characters!

Gwynet · 01-28-2008, 12:13 PM

It gets better. Yep, I've died a lot, but I guess it's the drawback for having pets that can do serious damage. I've had my pet break at the worst times several times (when pulling a named and with an add), and still survived - and killed them, of course. It's what makes the class fun, too SMILEY<img src=

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LordXenite · 01-28-2008, 12:40 PM

Pricia@Oasis wrote:

It gets better. Yep, I've died a lot, but I guess it's the drawback for having pets that can do serious damage. I've had my pet break at the worst times several times (when pulling a named and with an add), and still survived - and killed them, of course. It's what makes the class fun, too ">

It just seems like my Coercer had a harder time fighting white-cons than any of my other classes, and being able to charm mobs was a mixed thing where the spell breaks and casting it fast enough to regain control was near impossible.

A friend told me he used to charm mobs that are about 75% of his level, and then buff them, but as I understand it, that strategy isn't open to the lowbie Coercer's anyway.

This brings me to another question. If I ever start a new Coercer, will I have an easier time with it started at Freeport, instead of Hate's Envy?

Gwynet · 01-30-2008, 02:14 PM

I've found that once you put AA in the improved root and stuns it makes it much easier.

Callexis · 01-30-2008, 02:59 PM

Mordeak wrote:

Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.

Can anyone confirm this is true? Wow... I never thought about it, but it seems plausible.

I'm a 42 coercer (love it) and I spent about 50 gold yesterday on the broker to buy maybe 8 items with +subj for a total of +15 subjugation. I can't wait to try it on charming enemies +5-6 levels!

LordXenite · 01-30-2008, 04:49 PM

Started a new Coercer, she's doing ok so far mostly because I started to stay back and Stun/Hold instead of nuke/blast while the pet's tanking...

KamidariTuibumbi · 01-30-2008, 05:56 PM

Callexis wrote:

Mordeak wrote:
Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.
Can anyone confirm this is true? Wow... I never thought about it, but it seems plausible.
I'm a 42 coercer (love it) and I spent about 50 gold yesterday on the broker to buy maybe 8 items with +subj for a total of +15 subjugation. I can't wait to try it on charming enemies +5-6 levels!

That bit about the group mental buff used to be true, but it was fixed long ago.

shogun007 · 01-30-2008, 06:22 PM

Put first 5 points in Improved Charm in EOF tree. Then start putting points into Wis line , max out your subjugation. Hang in there , get to 25 at least , thats when u begin to feel like coercer . In ROK all classes get thrashed by solo mobs , i was in numerous situation when i helped players 7-8 levels above me to kill mobs -) At 71 i solo great , grps need me , i raid - what more could u want from a class!

01-18-2008, 06:42 AM	#2
Mordeak Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 18	lazarus104 wrote: if i could make a macro to target it i could have the same macro mez it so it'd be ready to re-charm, but the way it is i find the thing has time to get a hit on me by the time i get my mez off, which in some cases could be fatal.. especially if the mez resists the first time.Do you charm ^^^ mobs? Because as the charm mechanic works now, the spell reduses the mobs health to that of a no-arrow mob and the quality of it's spells/CA's is determined by the quality of your charm spell, so not much use in charming a ^^^ mob.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)Never had much use for a macro as I target through my pet if I have one upMy second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)Uhm, your job in the group is CC and buffing up the tank and dps classes in the group. Your pet will only take up 3 concentration slots that could be used for buffing the groups dps. If you are wondering, I have a level 36 coercer so I'm not making this up

01-18-2008, 06:49 AM	#4
Sigunn Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 97	I do not know how or if you can make such a macro. But here are a few suggestions to improve your situation. 1. Put max AA into improving Charm. This will lessen the risk of breaking. 2. Put as many AA as you can into improving Subjugation. Get Subjugation gear and adornments if you can. This also helps keeping Charm from breaking. 3. Some pets tend to break more often than others. I guess its because of their Mental Resist or something. If you are keeping a pet that breaks a lot, you can switch targets after sic'ing it on the mob, so you target through your pet as you would a MT. That way, if the pet breaks, you already have it in target and dont have to search for it manually. 4. When the pet breaks, start with a root. The root is faster then the mezz, and this should give you time to mezz it, then recharm. Remember to cancel the mez and root after you recharm, otherwise it will be standing there until they wear off, and that could kill you if you are in a mob fight. 5. Until you feel comfortable with these techniques, do not keep a pet in a group. Use the concentration slots for your melee buffs or your hate decrease buffs on your groupmates instead. I think a Charm spell without the risk of ever breaking would be overpowered. There are of pets at higher lvls that do LOTS of damage. Coercer pet DPS is supposed to be a risk/reward thing. Oh, and upgrade Charm to Master 1! If you solo a lot it is definitely worth every copper. __________________ Ramborg, 80 Coercer, Venekor server Alfhild, 80 Defiler, Venekor server Lindoria, 54 Inquisitor, Venekor server Vigg, 80 Woodworker, Venekor server Signe, 32 illusionist, Venekor server

01-18-2008, 06:54 AM	#5
Rahatmattata Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,232	Most groups do such weak dps when leveling up because they don't bother to upgrade spells/gear in many cases you're better off charming a wizard pet than buffing the group's meager dps. Assuming a solid caster pet is available, and master 1 charm of course.Obviously, in an ideal group you're better off buffing the rest of the group... but in pickup groups leveling through low-mid tiers you will be very lucky to get anything that resembles an "ideal" group. When I leveled my coercer, a charmed wizard mob would usually outparse most people in the group, and that doesnt include my dps.When fighting with a pet, target through your pet. When he breaks mez/re-charm/root/stun throw down some CC and get it locked down. Takes some practice, but if you keep your spells and gear top notch so you can actually take a few swings from a heroic and get fewer resists, you should be fine.There are other options as well that help with charm duration/resistablity and spell resistability, and boosting your subjegation as much as you can (hard to do in lower tiers) helps. __________________ A Cure For Cancer

01-18-2008, 06:56 AM	#6
Rahatmattata Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,232	Aquarius@Runnyeye wrote: On lower tiers, not many spells are worth upgrading, but Charm is definitely one of them. This is the mentality I was talking about in my above post, why many players have weak characters when they are leveling up, and therefore chaming a solid pet is often more beneficial than buffing these players. __________________ A Cure For Cancer

01-18-2008, 11:41 PM	#7
Taharn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	Mordeak wrote: lazarus104 wrote: Do you charm ^^^ mobs? Because as the charm mechanic works now, the spell reduses the mobs health to that of a no-arrow mob and the quality of it's spells/CA's is determined by the quality of your charm spell, so not much use in charming a ^^^ mob.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)Never had much use for a macro as I target through my pet if I have one upMy second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)Uhm, your job in the group is CC and buffing up the tank and dps classes in the group. Your pet will only take up 3 concentration slots that could be used for buffing the groups dps. If you are wondering, I have a level 36 coercer so I'm not making this up Just to clarify a couple of points here. Our group mental buff used to, a long time again, increase the chance that the pet will break. It doesn't anymore. That being said, it's often a much better idea to put your dps buff on your pet (and dont forget your hate gain one). There are situations where it's ok to charm in a group. If you're doing overland areas and you have access to caster solo mobs, definetly charm one. Some (fewer as you get higher) instances have solo mobs scattered throughout. Ruins of Varsoon comes to mind. Or even better, Court of Innovation. The mechana-magica hunters at the beginning of the zone are solo mobs, and can often parse as high as one of the dps classes just by themselves...definetly worth charming. __________________

01-18-2008, 05:07 AM	#1
Xephier Server: Guk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 122	I have a couple issues on this subject, for one, well, i am kinda new to being a chanter, my highest has been 26, but is there any way to make a macro to target a recently charmed pet, for instance one that just broke your charm? cuz i keep having to manually target it Then mez, if i could make a macro to target it i could have the same macro mez it so it'd be ready to re-charm, but the way it is i find the thing has time to get a hit on me by the time i get my mez off, which in some cases could be fatal.. especially if the mez resists the first time.so... if there is not a command to do this, could it be looked into implementing one?(im sure im going to be flamed by seasoned coercer's stating a macro is not needed, but can anyone deny that it would make things much easier?)My second issue and actually my primary issue, would be, Why do charms have to break at all, it's the main thing a coercer does is charm, i can see in pvp yes, or on class's where charming is not their primary feature, but half a coercer's power(dps) is in their charmed pet, why should this have a constant chance to break and screw the coercer over.... at least make it a little predictable, or make shorter charm periods like 5 min charm at 70-80 that will not break, id settle for that over a 10-20+ minute one that could break any time, or make it so it's on 30 second intervals or something so it's predictable to some extent.My main issue i have with this is that it makes coercers a liability to the group, what if the pet breaks as the group is on the verge of wiping, bam, i just screwed the group over, Yay for being a coercer.... or worse yet, i die(don't matter how skilled i am, my pet is now killing off the rest of the group....)

01-18-2008, 06:47 AM	#3
metacell Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 275	If I understand it right, coercers don't often use pets in groups or raids. In groups or raids, coercers are more of a support class, granting power regen, dps buffs, etc, while still doing a decent amount of DPS on their own. Charmed pets seem to be mostly used for soloing, and I think the devs made charm break because unbreakable charm would make coercers too powerful. As it is now, coercers have to trade the power of charmed pets for the risk of the charm breaking. Also, I assume you have upgraded your charm spell to at least Adept III? On lower tiers, not many spells are worth upgrading, but Charm is definitely one of them.EDIT: If you can't find a better solution to your problem, try making a macro that says "/target Mobname", and edit it by hand each time you want to charm a different mob. I'm not sure what happens if there are many mobs by the same name in line of sight, but hopefully it will target the nearest one.

01-19-2008, 08:53 PM	#8
Xephier Server: Guk Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 122	Personaly i dont see how an unbreakable charm would be in any way 'overpowered'.. i charm mobs(even heroics..) that apparently do as much damage and have as much life as a solo mob... the hell is overpowered about that?? You want overpowered, try illusionists on pvp.. That's overpowered. And the way i figgure it if you can charm the mob at all, then an unbreakable charm would be no more overpowered then one that breaks, the breakability is nothing more then anoying, just makes it so i cant charm heroics without the risk of killing off my group(even though as noted, the mobs act as solo's when charmed..) If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state?

01-20-2008, 01:42 AM	#9
Sigunn Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 97	lazarus104 wrote: If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state? You got a point there, Lazarus. /nod. __________________ Ramborg, 80 Coercer, Venekor server Alfhild, 80 Defiler, Venekor server Lindoria, 54 Inquisitor, Venekor server Vigg, 80 Woodworker, Venekor server Signe, 32 illusionist, Venekor server

01-20-2008, 11:06 AM	#10
Taharn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 196	The problem then is, if you make them 'unbreakable' and the heroic charm hits as hard, or half as hard as a regular heroic.. then they'll make solo charmeds hit as hard, or half as hard as regular solos. You know that's exactly how SOE would make it And to that, I say no thanks. I enjoy my solo mobs hitting for 1k and nuking for 5. __________________

01-21-2008, 01:23 PM	#11
Rahatmattata Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,232	lazarus104 wrote: Personaly i dont see how an unbreakable charm would be in any way 'overpowered'.. i charm mobs(even heroics..) that apparently do as much damage and have as much life as a solo mob... the hell is overpowered about that?? You want overpowered, try illusionists on pvp.. That's overpowered. And the way i figgure it if you can charm the mob at all, then an unbreakable charm would be no more overpowered then one that breaks, the breakability is nothing more then anoying, just makes it so i cant charm heroics without the risk of killing off my group(even though as noted, the mobs act as solo's when charmed..) If the mobs have a constant chance to break and this is simply a 'risk/reward' thing, then should the reward not be equal to the risk.. in other words if i charm a heroic mob that has a chance to go ballistic and wipe my group, should it not do equal damage to the mobs i use it on, or at least have even half the damage/life of it's current heroic state? Where to begin...Master1 charmed caster (solo or heroic) will nuke as hard if not harder than an uncharmed heroic caster.A charmed mob keeping it's up arrow mods would be stupidly overpowered.Charm breaks because the coercer is constantly using almost all his concentration keeping the mob dominated and bent to his will. Sometimes the mob will have a success "willpower" check.Want unbreakable charm? Get master1 and 5AA into charm. That's as close as you will get.Would be nice though if there was an endline eof AA that guarenteed charm will last x% of the total duration. Like maybe guarenteed 10min of charm on a 30min duration.Charm breaks can be exciting. Nothing like soloing a yellow ^^^ with another yellow ^^^ add when charm poofs... and you control the situation and win. __________________ A Cure For Cancer

01-25-2008, 07:10 PM	#12
Trepan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Hellbound Handbasket Posts: 417	As pointed out above, the best strat for using pets is to keep it targeted as much as possible. Target through your tank and send in the pet (I have /pet attack on a macro along with Whatever my current Stroke spell is) and then immediately F1, F1 to get back to your pet (F1 to target yourself, F1 when you are targeted will target your pet [but only WHILE it is a pet, if its not targetted when it breaks, you can't double tap F1 to get to him... then its a frantic tab, F8 or mouse hunt - or a calm and quiet wait for the revive window to display and activate]. Why keep the pet targetted?My other favorite pet macro is one that throws a single target stun, warns the group that I'm re-negotiating the pet's contract and then casts charm. If the pet breaks, 99% of the time I've got it targeted and with one key I block its damage to me and gain enough time to recharm. __________________

01-28-2008, 01:31 AM	#13
LordXenite Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4	At first, I thought the Coercer was quite interesting to play. I've got my Coercer to level 11,but just got really fed up with seeing RESIST all the time, and with my Charms breakingat all the wrong moments. The speed of the Charm spell also left me without being able toactually Charm fast enough and not die. I play a Charmer character in a different game, where charming mobs as a concept isimplemented differently than in EQ2. I won't go into details, or name the game, I justwish being a Coercer didn't include a LOT more dying than any of my other characters!

01-28-2008, 12:13 PM	#14
Gwynet Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 348	It gets better. Yep, I've died a lot, but I guess it's the drawback for having pets that can do serious damage. I've had my pet break at the worst times several times (when pulling a named and with an add), and still survived - and killed them, of course. It's what makes the class fun, too " />

01-28-2008, 12:40 PM	#15
LordXenite Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4	Pricia@Oasis wrote: It gets better. Yep, I've died a lot, but I guess it's the drawback for having pets that can do serious damage. I've had my pet break at the worst times several times (when pulling a named and with an add), and still survived - and killed them, of course. It's what makes the class fun, too "> It just seems like my Coercer had a harder time fighting white-cons than any of my other classes, and being able to charm mobs was a mixed thing where the spell breaks and casting it fast enough to regain control was near impossible. A friend told me he used to charm mobs that are about 75% of his level, and then buff them, but as I understand it, that strategy isn't open to the lowbie Coercer's anyway. This brings me to another question. If I ever start a new Coercer, will I have an easier time with it started at Freeport, instead of Hate's Envy?

01-30-2008, 02:14 PM	#16
Gwynet Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 348	I've found that once you put AA in the improved root and stuns it makes it much easier.

01-30-2008, 02:59 PM	#17
Callexis Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 64	Mordeak wrote: Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm. Can anyone confirm this is true? Wow... I never thought about it, but it seems plausible. I'm a 42 coercer (love it) and I spent about 50 gold yesterday on the broker to buy maybe 8 items with +subj for a total of +15 subjugation. I can't wait to try it on charming enemies +5-6 levels!

01-30-2008, 04:49 PM	#18
LordXenite Apprentice Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4	Started a new Coercer, she's doing ok so far mostly because I started to stay back and Stun/Hold instead of nuke/blast while the pet's tanking...

01-30-2008, 05:56 PM	#19
KamidariTuibumbi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 153	Callexis wrote: Mordeak wrote: Chance to break a charm is determined by charm spell quality. Maybe good idea to make it a little harder to resist but not flat out unbreakable. Good idea is to turn off your group mental buff because this increases the chance that your pet will resist the charm. Can anyone confirm this is true? Wow... I never thought about it, but it seems plausible. I'm a 42 coercer (love it) and I spent about 50 gold yesterday on the broker to buy maybe 8 items with +subj for a total of +15 subjugation. I can't wait to try it on charming enemies +5-6 levels! That bit about the group mental buff used to be true, but it was fixed long ago.

01-30-2008, 06:22 PM	#20
shogun007 Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 199	Put first 5 points in Improved Charm in EOF tree. Then start putting points into Wis line , max out your subjugation. Hang in there , get to 25 at least , thats when u begin to feel like coercer . In ROK all classes get thrashed by solo mobs , i was in numerous situation when i helped players 7-8 levels above me to kill mobs -) At 71 i solo great , grps need me , i raid - what more could u want from a class!