Sony let us SKs know what our role in raids are

[Krogoxx]

simple , Sony post what you think  is an Sks roles in a raid and Sks will tell you if we fill that role.

[KBern]

MT, OT.

Yes you do fill both of them, at least our does when she is needed to either MT or OT.

[LordPazuzu]

Your role is to eat the Death Touch...oh wait, wrong EQ.

[Ravaan]

filler ... though maybe with our level 80 spell we may become main tanks since we realistically have double hitpoints. Which im sure guardians and zerkers will soon complain about once a few lose thier MT job and the ability will be nerfed to oblivion by SoE.

[Krogoxx]

frekking sony moved this from game play forum, not like sony ever replies to the Sk posts in the Sk forumsas for beinf MT/OT yes we can do that but pallies are much better then we are look up thier abilties

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

MT or OT

Solid at both.

 ....and none are better OTs than SKs imo, even after looking up all the other classes abilities....and watching them...and testing them...etc. etc.

[Rast]

To be honest, I see SKs and Pallies in the same role.  We are both built to be OTs.  Sure we can MT, but Guards can typically do it a bit better than either of us, but I don't think there are any classes built better than the crusaders to be OTs.  We have great AoE potential, solid HP potential, we can DPS if needed, etc.

I believe any class that can OT can MT, but not all classes that can MT can OT.  As an OT, you need everything the MT has and more, plus it is a harder position to play.  Have to stay high in the agro list, but you dont' want to pull agro, unless necessary.  Does it make us the best choice?  No, but a good player can make up for a lack of tools and be very good at the MT role.  I know, I am a raid MT

[Dead Knight]

You are an off-tank. If you need SoE to tell you that you need to reroll imo.

[crookshan]

I've been taking the approach of just stabbing  the mob with the pointy end of sword.  Seems to be working great

[Masoma]

SK role in raids.Let me set some background here. I'm an 80 SK, 131 AA's at the moment.  Guildies are similar to a little lower in level.  MT is a guardian, OT is a guardian.  I'm occasionally used as a secondary OT or OT depending on raid makeup and environment  But MOST of the time, I'm placed in a mage group and serve as a meleeing mage in offensive stance.  I have to fight with the other mages to get the Fury's vim or lucidity INT buff.  If I get it, I'm over 1000 INT, if not, I'm running 800+ INT.  2H axe with a big damage spread and delay for maxing melee critical hits.  Hasted, + crit gear, etc.  I run in 8th-10th place zone wide in dps behind scouts and several of the mages.From experience, I can say that the realistic truth is that an  SK's position in a raid is more connected to friendships and power within the guild than innate SK abilities.  You are what you are buffed.  I had a Paladin friend who worked to become an officer in his raid guild so that he could assure himself of a slot in the raids.  Of course, with the right buffs, he is an uber Paladin.  We have had SK's and Paladins come and go in our guild.  They leave because there is no reason to give them a raid slot based on what they can bring to the raid compared to the superior dps of other classes in what have become basically dps raids.  We have at most 4 plate slots in raids, taken by the 2 guardians, myself, and a bezerker. (You got it! I am an officer.  lol)  I repeat: you are what you are buffed.  I do believe that the SK can serve as MT or OT or battlemage.  Best at any of those? No, not in my opinion. (Adding 90 to raid wide spell damage puts us on the same level as adornments.  lol)  I join most of the remaing high level SK's in their plea to the Sony gods for role definition and raid necessity.(Grouping is another story for another thread and a much happier one at that.)

[Dead Knight]

Masoma wrote:

 I join most of the remaing high level SK's in their plea to the Sony gods for role definition and raid necessity.

The day that a fighter that isn't the MT or OT in any EQ2 raid is the day that EQ2 devs make truly crap raid content. Nobody should be forced to have any given class on their raid to succeed, least of all a plate tank that isn't tanking.

[Krogoxx]

so true we make good tanks in groups,but we are not in demand for raids, i am lucky atm that we cannot fill out raids so i get a slot. when we are finish recruiting i will lvl up my assassin to be in the raid

[ReficulFonwaps]

/signed

Please tell us the secret....

[Levatino]

signed as well. If we can't raid then maybe Sony should give back our STR buff instead of the so called improvement of our raid abilities..

[Krogoxx]

why does a brigand post on a Sk forum?they are a valued member in raids unlike crusaders

[Dead Knight]

Because Ripzz was my main from DoF to the end of EoF and I'm experienced with raiding in that class. I mainswapped because I wasn't happy with RoK. Some people do have more than one character.

[Giral]

Shadowknight's role in raids is to MT or OT

Hardcore raid guilds will normaly use a Guard or Zerker Mt, and some use a SK MT and some use a SK OT

Casual Raid Guilds and Pick up raids realy arent out to optimize there raiding and so there could be 3 SK's in any of these raids , an SK MT and SK OT and a SK in a Dps group : )

i have been in Casual raiding guilds that have cleared all of KOS raids, all of FTH, some of MMis(and a couple names, and Emerald Halls (and a couple names) <----- we did all of these zones with a Guard/Zerker/Paladin/Shadowknight/Monk in the raids ,,, so even without an Optimal set up with a  Tank heavy raid force you can still clear alot of the raid content(if everyone in the raid is decently skilled with there class)

Sk's also can be constantly on the parse if they Set up fully to DPS , and in casual and pick up raids who wouldn't wan't to take the SK that does 2k damage over the wizzy thats doing1400 ? anyone who takes the wizzy just cuase there a wizzy is a [Removed for Content] , when the SK brings alot more to the raid, they can grant there armor,Intercede,ward,FD people that get agro, take Agro with DM if the MT and the OT both get killed, they have a raid wide Buff,and some ok debuffs and one very nice debuff,and they have Death march for the caster group : )  compared to a wizzy thats doing crappy dps id take the Sk hands down

Sk's are MT's, OT's and pretty Good DPS, do you need more then 1 sk in any raid ? NO< do you need more then 1 guardian in any raid ? No, do you need more then 1 Zerker in a raid ? NO ,  do you a paladin in any raids ? NO : ) ,    

so to answer your question SK's can fill 3 rolls in a raid, but just like Almost any other class you only need 1 of them and since there are 4 Plate Tanks and only 2 tanking positions in each raid, then atleast SK's also can fall back to doing Decent DPS,

something was said in another thread that also can help you land a spot in raid's,casual guilds and also a hardcore guild, and that is simply proving yourself as a skilled player,  nobody wants to bring an SK to raids that constantly casts Death March to early and puls agro off the mt constantly. or is doing 400 dps, etc,,

[Hugsnkissums]

There's hardly anything we can do, that another class can't do better when it comes to raids. We don't really have a necessary role, which is why raiding as an SK is highly dependant on who you know and who your friends are. I don't think I'll ever hear someone in a raid say, "oh crap, why didn't we get an SK?!" We're replaceable, and the positions we can fill there's always someone eager to take the spot. We're a dime a dozen, it's just the reality of what we are. We trade that for soloability. Don't like it, make friends or role another class that raids really do seek out and use that alt to outfit your SK when something drops that no one wants or needs. I'm so tired of hearing SK's whining about not getting into raids...come on guys, it's nothing new and it'll be a fricken miracle if that ever changes. Like your class for what it can do and for gawd sake, TALK to people and play the politics game if you want in on raids or deal with pick up raids, but stop bishing about it. It is what it is, so deal with it.

[ReficulFonwaps]

Gutan@Lucan DLere wrote:

 I'm so tired of hearing SK's whining about not getting into raids...come on guys, it's nothing new and it'll be a fricken miracle if that ever changes. Like your class for what it can do and for gawd sake, TALK to people and play the politics game if you want in on raids or deal with pick up raids, but stop bishing about it. It is what it is, so deal with it.

Gutan, I don't think everyone here is whining about not getting into raids. Our class definitely needs a more defined role in raids and that is what this thread is about. I love my class, and raid 3-4 days a week with my SK, but I still think we need some sort of little boost to make our class more valuable in raids.  If people just "deal with it" and don't speak their minds then what will bring about change?

[Wildmage]

I'd say its more like the Raid system in EQ2 has some flaws that reward the current narrow inflexible Raiding setups used by most Raiders.

[Coica]

 I MT for my guild. and when I join a PUR I simply explain that I can outdamage many of the other classes that are along for so called DPS. no complaints here.

[Krogoxx]

i pray that the epics in update 42 at the end of the month will throw us a bone

[Dragon]

The thing about SKs and Paladins is that they have tons of versatility.  This has been the same in every game I played that has had these classes.  Granted, the 24 man max raid group will limit how much you can sway from the most optimal group, but classes such as these can quickly change role and still be good at it.  They aren't the best tanks, or the best DPS, or the best healers, but most of the time, they can do all 3 at once (whether self or raid wide, healing wise).A raid full of paladins could theoretically work... they wouldn't have the most dps in the world, but they would be pretty much invincible.  A raid of about 12-16 SKs could work as well, if they had some healers behind them and good buffing classes in the mix.  Again, it wouldn't be the most optimized group for any one thing, but that isn't to say it would never work.The thing that sux is that there are so many classes, and so little use for any one class in particular... especially when you have a 24 max raid group lockout.  If it was more like, 30, or 36, you wouldn't have this problem... but you may have a problem of filling up the raid that requires that many.  (I don't know how the hell EQ did it with 72 people max [Removed for Content]).

[MaCloud1032]

I wouldnt matter how many extra slots you throw at a raid we still have no place in a raid.  It wouldnt matter if there was 100 slots you will still need 1MT group and 1OT group.  The rest is dps.  ive been seeing a lot where even zerkers have been sat down for a guard to have the OT spot.  so yes sks need something but we wont get it.  If they make it so all classes needt obe present for a raid people just wont raid that or stop raiding all together.  for the most part there are 4 classes that realy dont have a spot in a raid thats SK, Pally, Monk, and bruiser.  We are the only classes that can be told no yhou can raid because of your class AND we understand why.

[Dragon]

I've been in plenty of raids that required even 10 MT to do.  The technology is there, but most games now a days are focused on casual players and their play styles (in that, you can't always count on them being active all the time).  It isn't necessarily a bad thing, just how they are focused now.  Which is why the raid groups are so small.With more slots in a raid group, the developers have the freedom to make encounters require 4+ tanks in a raid group (which isn't to say they can't do that now... but then the DPS would complain that they don't have enough raid slots).  Really, there isn't a good solution to the problem without taking something away.  But I still stand by my initial assumption that there are too many classes all together.  Why have 30 different classes in a game if you can only really use 5?

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

We use a fairly balanced mix of classes, including SKs, for the raids I run....as does a second raid force I run with. MT or OT roles usually.

For OT, SK is my preferred choice by far. As an MT, I'd give the guardian class a small edge on many of the named currently in game though...but not all (directly due to the encounters as they were created, not due to the class in and of itself). For pure DPS roles, I generally favor skilled non-tanks...but regardless, I often run with at least 1 SK in some role or another.

I also noticed a couple of other decent raid guilds using SKs (and Pallys) on my server....as well as spots for SKs in most (if not all) of the casual raid forces and PuGs I've ever seen.

From my experiences, there are plenty of raid spots for dedicated SKs to snag. To date, I have never had a problem landing a spot on my SK, nor seeing an encounter failed  because there was an SK tanking/OTing/in raid instead of another class either.

[Dragon]

Aye, it is more mentality than anything.  But it is ironic... guardians are saying that their class is too narrow minded, and that some classes can fulfill the MT possition in groups better than they can due to their inability to DPS.  While at the same time, SKs are asking for a more narrow minded position in raids.I don't think that as a SK, you would want to fight with with 3 other classes for 1 or 2 spots in a raid.  The DPS and even healer/support spots have way more openings, and just the fact that a SK can fill any of these spots in a raid should be more than enough no?

[Ravaan]

i think they should just make SKs Hybrids and give us a tank stance and a DPS stance

tank stance would be basically what we see now ... basically we can do the job in a pinch but most would still rather take Guardian.

DPS stance would lower our Mit by a whole lot give us added melee crit and boost in double attack and maybe even a "double cast" which basically will make our spells hit twice (/drools at the thought of tap arteries hitting twice).

[Nulgara]

Ravaan wrote:

i think they should just make SKs Hybrids and give us a tank stance and a DPS stance

tank stance would be basically what we see now ... basically we can do the job in a pinch but most would still rather take Guardian.

DPS stance would lower our Mit by a whole lot give us added melee crit and boost in double attack and maybe even a "double cast" which basically will make our spells hit twice (/drools at the thought of tap arteries hitting twice).

all that would do is even further bastardize the SK. Regardless of what anyone says we ARE a mage that can tank. We have the lowest natural hp pool of the tanks, we need to worry bout 4 stats not 3 because a very large portion of our dps is from spells not CA's. changeing the stances wont do anything but make our role even fuzzier that it is now. that being said I raid my SK perfectly fine. We use a guard as MT most of the time, but there are times when I step into the MT spot. I OT and MA our raids. Skill is a defining factor. People look at SK's and go man they are awesome solo and great for groups, and have 0 clue about what we can do on a raid. You get a bunch o ffolsk that go oh well SK can FD and get a healer up if its a wipe, sure we can do that, so can the necro and the brawler, and the tinkerer if they dont fail. what else CAN I do,, I can MT, OT, MA, DPS, DPS while MT OT and MA, I ward our MT on pulls not our shamans I can take the hit if it pulls agro and then fd so mt gets it back instantly, shaman cant, sure its not as godly and effective as a shaman ward but it gets the mt from the pull to the tank spot with more hp then if he had no ward. oh if a healer yanks agro on pull i can fd them too wow imagine that fight didnt even start yet and i already saved a life. Most of the time I prefer to reside in the mage group. intercedes, blessings and such on our necro or conj in the event of them yanking agro keeps more folks alive longer and healers dont have to babysit the squishys.  lets see what else. SNAP agro. MT loses a mob due ot memwipe oh look deathmarch blink mob is on me mt gets 2 rounds of taunts blink i fd mt has it back. memwipes again blink HT MT gets some taunts i hold attacks for a few seconds and bloop mob back on MT. So please instead of asking what is our role on raids,, how bout asking what ISN'T our role on raids. A WELL played SK does DESERVE a raid spot they bring a lot to the table with them.  Everytime I say this someone responds with yeah but if that player was playing a scout they would be even better, if I wanted to play a scout I would have rolled one. If I wanted ot sneak around and stab mobs in the back and constantly get mad about the mob moving cause now i dont have his back I woudl have rolled one, If I wanted to be given a raid spot instead of earning one I woudl have rolled one. SK's have to EARN their place at the table, it wont be handed ot you like it is for a guard or scouts or mages.  Personally I dont think there is a single thing wrong with that. I enjoy my class because its the class I WANT to play not a class "uber guild a" made me play so i could raid. Look around in worldwide SK channel there are A LOT of raiding SK's and its not cause their friends felt sorry for them its cause they earned their place.

[Kelkirra]

Maahes@Antonia Bayle wrote:

all that would do is even further bastardize the SK. Regardless of what anyone says we ARE a mage that can tank. We have the lowest natural hp pool of the tanks, we need to worry bout 4 stats not 3 because a very large portion of our dps is from spells not CA's. changeing the stances wont do anything but make our role even fuzzier that it is now. that being said I raid my SK perfectly fine. We use a guard as MT most of the time, but there are times when I step into the MT spot. I OT and MA our raids. Skill is a defining factor. People look at SK's and go man they are awesome solo and great for groups, and have 0 clue about what we can do on a raid. You get a bunch o ffolsk that go oh well SK can FD and get a healer up if its a wipe, sure we can do that, so can the necro and the brawler, and the tinkerer if they dont fail. what else CAN I do,, I can MT, OT, MA, DPS, DPS while MT OT and MA, I ward our MT on pulls not our shamans I can take the hit if it pulls agro and then fd so mt gets it back instantly, shaman cant, sure its not as godly and effective as a shaman ward but it gets the mt from the pull to the tank spot with more hp then if he had no ward. oh if a healer yanks agro on pull i can fd them too wow imagine that fight didnt even start yet and i already saved a life. Most of the time I prefer to reside in the mage group. intercedes, blessings and such on our necro or conj in the event of them yanking agro keeps more folks alive longer and healers dont have to babysit the squishys.  lets see what else. SNAP agro. MT loses a mob due ot memwipe oh look deathmarch blink mob is on me mt gets 2 rounds of taunts blink i fd mt has it back. memwipes again blink HT MT gets some taunts i hold attacks for a few seconds and bloop mob back on MT. So please instead of asking what is our role on raids,, how bout asking what ISN'T our role on raids. A WELL played SK does DESERVE a raid spot they bring a lot to the table with them.  Everytime I say this someone responds with yeah but if that player was playing a scout they would be even better, if I wanted to play a scout I would have rolled one. If I wanted ot sneak around and stab mobs in the back and constantly get mad about the mob moving cause now i dont have his back I woudl have rolled one, If I wanted to be given a raid spot instead of earning one I woudl have rolled one. SK's have to EARN their place at the table, it wont be handed ot you like it is for a guard or scouts or mages.  Personally I dont think there is a single thing wrong with that. I enjoy my class because its the class I WANT to play not a class "uber guild a" made me play so i could raid. Look around in worldwide SK channel there are A LOT of raiding SK's and its not cause their friends felt sorry for them its cause they earned their place.

A-[Removed for Content]-men!!! I've raided with my SK and my Fury and I still love my Sk more!! It's all about skill with this class. Roll a scout/mage if you want an easy spot in a raid. Just don't be upset when I come behind you and smoke your parse Dude above me said everything I would normally say!! We're just bad-[Removed for Content]!! That's all there is to it!! You want a more "defined" role in a raid? Roll a Guard/Healer/Utility/Mage/Scout. Want to do it all? Roll the SK!