EQ2: RoK Trends, Pro's & Con's and it's place in the MMO world

[Wastura]

I wasn't sure where to put this so I'll put it here and allow the moderator's choice on where it belongs.

I intend to adress many things that concern me as a player, but I would like feedback, additions, and confirmation of any facts or falsehoods as such.

EQ2: After the success of Everquest, developers wanted to make a game on an engine that could handle the additions and upgrades needed for an MMO. While EQ was great, it was constructed by the standards of gaming at the time and they couldn't envision the things they wanted to develop or do with the game until the engine was already in place.

On that precursing note, I would like to know if some things are even possible and write this with the thought of "The Ultimate MMO" in mind.

 Should I purchase Ruins of Kunark?

Pro's

*The new zones are beautiful and immense. The size of the zones become reminiscent of when we first went into Antonica or the Commonlands and so engrossing, that it was hard to imagine there being other zones of higher teirs in the same fashion.

*There are TONS of new quests, and many of them are the standard fetch, kill or assassinate kinds of things, but there are also more involving specific items, story arcs, waiting for someone to contact you via the in-game mail system (think FP betrayal or Unrest completion as a step.) Generally, they did well allowing players a more unique way of grinding.

 *A new raid system of teiring, hereafter referred to as Raid Level, that promises the hardcore audience plenty of content and flagging to occupy them before the new expansion.

To summarize, this expansion is big, and we thank the developers for that. I don't want to start off on a bad note here, there is good for this expansion but of course this is a letter of my concerns and feedback so the majority of the post will focus on that and potential ways to help allieviate them.

How I started into EQ2:

When I went to purchase my copy of EQ2:RoK there were three or four games out at the time that have recieved higher praise from many respected critics, that had next generation graphics, extremely satisfying game play and story arcs. Why would I choose EQ2? Because it's an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online) that in my opinion delivers something no other MMO has yet to fully match.

I first purchased EQ with my first paycheck, ever. I was 16 and working at McDonald's and wanted to get myself something as a reward for having a job. I saw EQ in the trio pack that included EQ and the expansions up through the latest, Kunark. It looked like Final Fantasy and had three games in one, I thought, and so I bought it. Suffice it to say 30 dings later I was about to loose my job after all the late night grinds and late start mornings. I got my family into the game and my mom now actually runs a cleric on Bristlebane in a raiding guild.

I was reluctant to try EQ2 after launch. I had worked hard for my gear, levels and achievements in EQ and felt that they would be lost if I switched MMO's. In fact I refused to try any other MMO for a long time.

One day, my mom had a trial going for EQ2 and left it up on her computer while I was visiting from college on the character select screen. I sat down and made a character, completely entranced by the ammount of control I had over the character creation. I loaded up the Isle of Refuge and began a quest, a guard pointed me to where I wanted to be, a journal with helper window kept me right on track and soon after I dinged and all the luster from the EQ1 early days was back, and better. I camped one drop of my druid epic in EQ1 for almost 72 hours straight with my sister helping me in shifts and this quest didn't require logging off and checking the then impossible to navigate allakhazam or beg for help or even know the lore of every obscure zone nook and crany to complete.

I got to max level and finished everything on the isle and wanted more, and so I purchased the full game and went to make my new character.

Story over

Making your first character for the MMO experienced:

You will probably not want to reroll after you put in effort so class is a huge factor, if you play the wrong one, you won't go on raids, you won't get to do this, that and the other and no one will want you in a group. I grinded my druid in EQ1 almost entirely solo because the cleric healed much better and the wizard nuked much harder. I was tired of going LFG for 6 hours to only go to bed with half a yellow from quadding.

I thought about guilds in EQ1, how the raiders that got to see the content and win had 2 maybe three druids, one warrior, six wizards and six scouts, and 14 clerics. If I wanted a guild that would let me see the zones I couldn't see in EQ1, cleric seemed the best chance to get into a guild that wanted me.

If I wanted a group immediately, (6 hours LFG and the my sister's cleric would have 5 tells asking before she was even fully zoned in) I knew that the druid would not get the group because people wanted the pure healing power of a cleric.

If I wanted quest help (the cleric's clicky stick was so awesome and the class so needed my guild did 5 raids to get them while I was EQ1 while I solo'ed every last drop of the druid epic) then the cleric had to be the way to go.

So, I rolled a cleric.

Cons of the RoK expansion:

*Quests. This is the dreaded dual edged sword. A pro in adding all kinds of interesting content, a con in the breakdown of the fun of the game. EQ2 is, forgive the wording, mediocre in the grand scheme of all video games ever. Imagine it as a stand alone campaign of trying to take a character and accomplish the game's objective. There is no real ending, there is a lot of content that simply can't be done alone, one cinematic that plays before launch (compare to FFXII's 8 hours of cinematics) No character development aside from RL development of the individual player and a minor ammount of NPC progression.

In short, if I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion.

To compound, I rolled a templar because I wanted to be with people. I find that this expansion has crippled the cleric and shaman into a very high stress, low result game.

*Here's the part that upsets me. No one wanted to grind because the experience for it was zilch, about 20 kills to achieve a percent. When I went to quest with other people (I worked the two days after launch) I was behind and no one wanted to back quest (who can blame them since there is no experience in it for them or anything else.) And when I tried to take a templar out to solo, my class is not built for that kind of play.

*I wear plate, my avoidance is lower than the druid and even the shaman because I have so much mitigation. Every swing of the mob seems to interupt, focus does little excepting that with the new system it causes me to not be able to change to a heal spell when the nuke has almost cast twice but the mob has hit me enough that I need to heal or die.

*My dps is a joke. I know many templars are saying DPS is possible with the templar and I agree, if I'm in a group that doesn't require healing, such as MMIS, FTH, EH or any KoS raids where I can open up I do parse about 2k with group buffs. But in a solo situation that just isn't possible. Moreover, the fury in the group is doing 2.4k, and has lesser gear than I do, fewer masters, etc.

*The advent of the "new" AA's being only an increase into more of the current AA's really puts me in a bind. Sure I can now get that buckler avoidance thingie, but with my EoF AA's, I mind as well have 120 AA's and trade the rest in for 20 copper. And I'm not the only class that can say they got rather worthless lines.

The Market is crashing and people are jumping out of windows:

Okay, so here's another thing about the expansion. I worked really really hard. Went to all the raids I could, spent DKP wisely (or the equivalent whereas my guild is a different way of merit loot.) I  had pretty darn good gear. When the expansion went live, I noticed something disturbing, casual players were running around with gear that was comparable or better than mine. I was in EoF fabled, and these people that spend a good majority of their time chatting with friends were making my efforts over the past year (since KoS launched) look insignificant and meanial.

Yes, and expansion should upgrade gear. Yet in my experience it has been you would need to raid to replace raid gear, not solo and get three full sets worth of better stuff in a day.

The flip side of that coin is that they really screwed the casual player in compensating the raider.

Last expansion there were times I was scraping and selling relic gear to pay repair bills. When the expansion went live I worked extremely hard before the bot and plat farming market found the nodes, in producing stones to a market with huge demand and little supply. I have never seen so much cash before in the game and now to find that mounts are 47-58p, that the chests off raid encounters drop 20-100p? I worked hard while getting forsaken in the grind game, and again my hard work gets minimalized for the sake of lack of invention to the drops?

What it boils down to is that you can't have it both ways, you make the game casual or you make it hardcore, because everyone in between gets the negative effects for both and the positives for neither.

While we're at it, I wanted to mention the Avatars. One guild on the server got to them first, got the first kills and now no one else can get them because we can't have more than a pull to even get a try before it's killed. Going back to intent of EQ2, why doesn't everyone get a shot at that gear. Why can't they be instanced? In fact, terrorantula, Barakah, hurranicus, princes, etc, etc, what was the point? One guild gets it, they get the gear from it, they become the dominant guild that basically ensures no one else can get it.

I realize I can't have it both ways either, so I want to explain that previous paragraph, you give that to the hardcore, but now the only way to compensate is to give something to the casual.

Not everyone falls into "Hardcore" and "Casual" titles. I would be willing to bet that the majority of your paid subscribers are somewhere in the middle like me.

Raid Levels:

*Raiding with alts is just about gone. I love the templar but sometimes I want to beat the crap out of a mob and not babysit 24 health bars. This new Raid level system sounds pretty bad. For example, with a 4-3-2-1 build, my guild is healer heavy one night on a level one raid and I get to bring my bruiser and get the flag. Now a level 2 raid comes up but I can't attend because we're healer heavy and my bruiser doesn't have a flag from the required level 1 raids.

Minor complaint honestly

And of course my bruiser, my unloved bruiser.

I feel that you really can't play this game unless you're willing to play the hot class every time it shifts. If your class is overpopulated, you can't get raid time if it is the hot class, and if your class is vastly dominated by another in the same archetype, your class may not be used at all (for example SK's, Pallies, Berserkers, Bruisers and Monks) compared to the guardian. Sure, if the raid doesn't have enough people bring one, or if the strat requires say one monk to FD the Rumbler, sure, one brawler gets to see some action. But the truth is, there are EQ1 Druids in EQ2 that you really only have cause the player is too stubborn to reroll or the strat calls for one every once in awhile.

THE COMPETITION:

WOW - Not just the largest fan base, but the colussus that clutches other MMO's throats demanding worship. They set the trends for all other MMO's, good trends and bad, and I am afraid EQ2 is getting a lot of the bad atm. The good thing about them is that they are growing though. You can roll a character and get a group together relatively fast even this long after launch. They are telling society that it isn't abnormal to play MMO's, but that it is cool and socially acceptable. They are advertising, and apart from Heather Graham voicing and Curt Shilling sponcering (and only in channels of people that already know EQ2 really) that happened ages ago, SoE isn't. However, Sony does constantly strive to increase the size and freedom of their games, WoW caters to plat farming, fast leveling, and getting numbers. Sony seems to show more love to it's customers.

LOTRO - Amazing tradeskill system. This game does wonders for the casual audience not only in the fun and creative tradeskills, but in the simply game play and focus on solo play. However their biggest advantage IMO was when I sent a feedback, the next day I saw it implemented, multiple times, they really seem to strive to improve the game. The downfall here is that the system is clunky, the UI, engine, and forced storyboard from the LOTR universe really makes it hard to enjoy what they are putting in.

GuildWars - Free being it's biggest advantage over EQ2, it also has a GREAT map system with ping points, drawings and more. However while EQ2 still entertains me after 2 and a half years, GW barely survived 2  months of casual play as I learned every trick, inch and quest the game had to offer.

There really aren't any other MMO's worth mentioning because they are dying or dead or lack any benefit compared to EQ2, apart from the other SOE concepts like EQ, SWG, Vanguard.

So, is EQ2 the best MMO out there, yes, but this expansion doesn't signpost well. Can things be fixxed, definately and I hope that others that see this can either help in showing the developers that they need to examine the balance of classes, the disparity either too great or too small between casual and hardcore, and the EQ2 game as a whole.

Or if I'm wrong about all of this, and I don't need the vocal minority of solo'ers telling me I'm just complaining, let me know why, key word being why. If I'm missing something about all of this, I want to know about it.

[Dragowulf]

Long...very long post, but I did read it all.I agree to some of your points about the quests and classes that no one wants, as for your comment about "SOE Concepts"....I say we dump all those darn-old failing games, put more effort in the games that are doing decent->good, and once the games status gets better or achieves, we can start on the others.drago.

[Gnevil]

Well long post.  As the op above me I did read it all.

I guess you just lost me.  You recount everything that has been discussed and beaten to death. 

I have 5 level 70+ characters.  and their associated tradeskills, including transmuting (my armorer).

The only downside to this new expansion for me has been the sheer volume of quests.  I raid with my Mystic, the soloing for me ground to a slow crawl as soon as I went into the Jungle.  However I simply tagged some friends and worked my way into Jarsath Wastes.  Now that is a fun zone.  I am pressing hard to get to 80th, for my mystic, he is my raid toon and I very much look forward to checking out the raid zones.

As to your comments about raids and wanted types.  I disagree, if you are in a guild that has that may players raiding, then start a second raid force.  Raids have always been 24 toons, from the very first day.  That means that only 24 peeps get to go on raids, and if you want to be a top tier raid guild then you maximize your raid force as much as possible.  Does that mean some peeps get overlooked?  Unfortunately yes it does.  But it has always been this way.  It's not going to change that's simply the way its going to be.

As to the gear... this happens every single time a new expansion/tier is introduced.  Yes this new gear is kicking the heck outa our fabled gear from EOF, though as a chain healer I have yet to get a piece of armor upgraded from my class set from EOF.  Not a single piece of quest (where we seem to be bugged or completely overlooked as there has been very little in the way of wis/str chain gear offered.) I saw one single drop from the Crypt instance in Sebilis which was even healer oriented and it didn't in any way match my fabled armor.  As for the jewelery, yeah there is an absolute boat load of upgrades available from the quest lines.  But I would say wait till you are doing Vaults then moving onto raids and be amazed at the gear that you will earn from those zones I am sure it will blow away everything else in the game.

Money?  Man I am just happy that I can earn plats from the quest lines and the chest drops.  This is a wonderfull change of pace for peeps like me that don't farm for hours on end to put money in the bank.  I use my tradeskillers to outfit friends and guildies not make money.  I created the muter to help friends and guildies not make money.  I rarely have more then 10p in the bank at any given time.  I spend alot on raiding, potions, totems, repair kits, stat food and drink, spells you name it I have spent it.  I do everything I can to maximize my part in our raids.  My rewards are some of the nicest gear in the game and seeing the end content while its still relevant in the game.

I guess in closing if you don't like the game anymore don't play it anymore.  It's only as much fun as you make it.  For me this expansion so far has provided a new interest in me continuing to play.  I can't wait to work my way up with my other toons where I can take my time and enjoy all the sites sounds quests and interaction at a more liesurely pace, instead of the mad dash I have made with my raid toon.

Good luck to you.

[Wastura]

The only downside to this new expansion for me has been the sheer volume of quests.  I raid with my Mystic, the soloing for me ground to a slow crawl as soon as I went into the Jungle.  However I simply tagged some friends and worked my way into Jarsath Wastes.  Now that is a fun zone.  I am pressing hard to get to 80th, for my mystic, he is my raid toon and I very much look forward to checking out the raid zones.

As to your comments about raids and wanted types.  I disagree, if you are in a guild that has that may players raiding, then start a second raid force.  Raids have always been 24 toons, from the very first day.  That means that only 24 peeps get to go on raids, and if you want to be a top tier raid guild then you maximize your raid force as much as possible.  Does that mean some peeps get overlooked?  Unfortunately yes it does.  But it has always been this way.  It's not going to change that's simply the way its going to be.

Okay, but that fails to adress how people can stay with the quests if they fall behind and people don't want to backflag, you are on the upper-end of the quest lines, but many of us can't get the  help needed cause we're too far behind the group that took a week off from work to blow through them with a tight knit group of 6.

And I cannot be more adamant on the issue of wanted types. You play a mystic, so if you're in a hardcore guild your spot is assured, if you're in a larger guild you probably get a little edgy every time a shaman is guilded. But what about your guild SK? You get one in a hardcore guild and he's wondering if they're taking him, the pally or the bruiser tonight. In the larger guild you see any of the mentioned classes joined and you're raid time just got cut in half.

Guild large enough to host two raids, not likely, I don't know of any on my server that roll two raids concurrently. And were it done that way, you get Varsity squad that gets perfect set-up (SK's, Pallies, etc still wondering when they get to do the cool stuff) and the JV team that gets the left overs running three SK's, 4 pallies, 2 bruisers and the suck monk and parse 10k at best blundering through Labs while A team gets to try out Veeshan's Peak.

The game seems extremely unbalanced to me, and not just for the fighters.

[re1master]

"In short, if I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion."  - WasturaBwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaWho'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

Alexander@Guk wrote:

"In short, if I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion."  - WasturaBwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaWho'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

HAHAHAHAH!!! I did read the whole post and it seems as if the OP is a bit [Removed for Content] about picking a class that don't solo well, and is worried about his/her slot in a raid even though they are a temp.... /shrug I think at this time RoK is right where it should be and with a bit more tweaking I am sure the zones that have some bumps and such will be smoothed out. Heck... look at KoS, EoF, etc they are smoother than they were at launch. *Gets of soapbox and continues laughing*

[Soldancer]

Since RoK there is a hard edge between solo- and group content. Heroics are hitting now like epics before RoK, they have way more HP and many heroic nameds got CC immunities like raid-mobs (e.g. all nameds in the easiest RoK instance CoA are completely immune against root, mezz, stun, fear - even overland nameds like the General in Jarsath are immune). Before RoK a large part of the group-content was accessable for soloers with skill, patience and good gear. Many Players were e.g. able to solo Egg, the easiest KoS instance. Seems so that this times are gone with RoK. Group enforcing is the new maxime, meaningfull solo content does not longer exist. There is no farming zone like EoF Mistmore Catacombs in RoK. It's a bit risky what SOE try with this new line. Many players left after the release of EQ2 because of group enforcing and it needed years to built up the subs-numbers after that loss. Before RoK there was a good balance in the game, no hard edge between solo- and group-content. In a few weeks most players become 80 and if they find out that they can't solo anything meaningfull this could become a disaster for the subscriptions.

[Lornick]

melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:

I did read the whole post and it seems as if the OP is a bit [Removed for Content] about picking a class that don't solo well, and is worried about his/her slot in a raid even though they are a temp.... /shrug I think at this time RoK is right where it should be and with a bit more tweaking I am sure the zones that have some bumps and such will be smoothed out.

After reading the majority of the OP's post this is what I gathered from it as well.  I seems to me that the OP was just too comfortable sitting at the level cap for so long.

[Maroger]

I read your entire comments and generally think you missed the mark. I think you are missing where MMO's are headed as a genre and it has to do with demographic changes more than the success of WoW -- WoW just understood the changes and catered to them before SOE figured it out.

I think more and more the sort of people who play MMO's are casual players who have limited time to play and want to accomplish something for their character. EQ1 was populated by a much younger crowd of people who though nothing of staying up all night to crack Fear and then spend the entire next day in corpse recovery runs. I was in a raiding guild and remember big 72 man raids that lasted for 8+ hours by the time you finished corpse runs.

WoW understood that the demographics for that type of game would not be around forever. Once the EQLIVE fanatics grew up, had families, jobs etc., to say nothing of the pressures of the society today as opposed to the society that existed when EQLIVE came out, they would find those raid committments hard to do. So they moved out. WoW was appealing as the time committment was not large in the game compared to the time committment in EQLIVE.

EQ2 made the mistake of trying to be EQLIVE with better graphics when it first came out. It simply couldn't compete with the faster paced WoW. I mean even walking around Freeport was pretty tedious in the old days. So EQ2 was hurt very badly and I honestly don't think it has totally recovered from that bad start.

SOE which has always catered to guilds and hardcore raiders had to do readjustment. They doubtlessly played WoW and all the other games out there and they can't help but have noticed that players LIKE TO SOLO. Turning EQ2 around to match the new player demands was a bit like turning the Titanic -- a very slow job. Each new expansion shows the changes that are taking place.

In ROK they finally understood that catering to the small hardcore raiders cost them customers -- so I think they began investing more in things for soloers that bring decent rewards. I think for most games today hardcore raiding is dead -- unless you play Vanguard.

But newer games find that too much attention to raiding or forced grouping at the expense of casual players is risky financially. Raiders consume content much faster than casual players and then start whining for more raid content a few months after the release of an expansion. A company gets more out of an expansion that is played by casual players since many of them will not have consumed the content by the time the next expansion comes out.

I am sure EQ2 makes enough money and has a large enough player base to keep cranking out expansions. But it stumbled out of the starting gate and can never really make that up. Actually it is a better game and more fun to play than either LOTRO or WOW. WoW get boring pretty quickly and LOTRO is so consumed by Tolkien that it gets downright tedious at times but will have a loyal player base of Tolkien fans.

But one day an MMO will come along that will have totally solved the soloer vs raider vs grouper  vs content/reward problem and when that happens it will knock all the other games out of the ring.

[Lonestryd]

Soldancer wrote:

Since RoK there is a hard edge between solo- and group content. Heroics are hitting now like epics before RoK, they have way more HP and many heroic nameds got CC immunities like raid-mobs (e.g. all nameds in the easiest RoK instance CoA are completely immune against root, mezz, stun, fear - even overland nameds like the General in Jarsath are immune).Before RoK a large part of the group-content was accessable for soloers with skill, patience and good gear. Many Players were e.g. able to solo Egg, the easiest KoS instance. Seems so that this times are gone with RoK. Group enforcing is the new maxime, meaningfull solo content does not longer exist. There is no farming zone like EoF Mistmore Catacombs in RoK.It's a bit risky what SOE try with this new line. Many players left after the release of EQ2 because of group enforcing and it needed years to built up the subs-numbers after that loss. Before RoK there was a good balance in the game, no hard edge between solo- and group-content. In a few weeks most players become 80 and if they find out that they can't solo anything meaningfull this could become a disaster for the subscriptions.

I agree with this.  I left VG to come here and this I the chat channels are silent compared to what I remember with the following exceptions...

Where do I find the ??? quest thingy?  443, 345, 345.

Thanks!

I have had 1 group in about 30 hours of playing since I've come back.  That's with a 71 assassin and 66 dirge.  And that one group was in KOS, not the new zones.  Oh well, a new era I suppose.  I just can't help but feel I've outgrown the online MMO scene.  Kudos to everyone for whom these games are being made now.  You have myriad choices.  I have none.

[Gungo]

To put it simple the OP is wrong on quite a few issues.1) The OP has no clue how the raid flagworks each person does not need to clear all tiers.2) Just because solo questing is a viable progression now which it NEVER was before does not mean grouping is not.

[Gungo]

Soldancer wrote:

Since RoK there is a hard edge between solo- and group content. Heroics are hitting now like epics before RoK, they have way more HP and many heroic nameds got CC immunities like raid-mobs (e.g. all nameds in the easiest RoK instance CoA are completely immune against root, mezz, stun, fear - even overland nameds like the General in Jarsath are immune). Before RoK a large part of the group-content was accessable for soloers with skill, patience and good gear. Many Players were e.g. able to solo Egg, the easiest KoS instance. Seems so that this times are gone with RoK. Group enforcing is the new maxime, meaningfull solo content does not longer exist. There is no farming zone like EoF Mistmore Catacombs in RoK. It's a bit risky what SOE try with this new line. Many players left after the release of EQ2 because of group enforcing and it needed years to built up the subs-numbers after that loss. Before RoK there was a good balance in the game, no hard edge between solo- and group-content. In a few weeks most players become 80 and if they find out that they can't solo anything meaningfull this could become a disaster for the subscriptions.

are you seriously complaining about not soloing group content?Did you not notice the MAJOR complaint in this expansion is people have to MUCH solo content. Have you not noticed that all overland zones are turned into solo content.there is tons of solo quests and solo named. And 5 heroic instances, 3 shared dungeons. it really is sad that you feel the only meaningful content to solo is the few instances and areas designated for groups.If anythign this expansion is finaly perfect in labeling group and solo content. and yet there is still some heroic content that is soloable if you know how to play ur class well.

[Soldancer]

Gungo wrote:

are you seriously complaining about not soloing group content? Did you not notice the MAJOR complaint in this expansion is people have to MUCH solo content. Have you not noticed that all overland zones are turned into solo content. there is tons of solo quests and solo named.

I speak from the situation of a level 80 player not from the situation of a level 70 player who have to level up. I know all the complaining about leveling up to 80 is easier by doing solo quests than by group-grinding heroic mobs, but that's not the point. If a players has reached 80 and did all the quests he will face the ugly group enforcing which came back with RoK what's bad for the game. Forget all those "solo nameds", they drop crap and are not worth hunting, only good for geting AA one time. For a max level player overland zones are unimportant, only instances and raid content do count up from the point you explored all overland zones and did all quests. Group enforcing measures the devs brought in with RoK for instances: - very hard hitting heroics - very high HP for heroics - high mob density - many roamers who all see invis - CC immunities for heroic nameds - shorter respawn times - NO-TRADE flag for most good instance loot Soloing/duoing in instances is now much much harder. Don't understand me wrong, it's ok if they make the game more challenging but I think the devs had overact with all this measures. Hard hits: Before RoK I could get two hits from a blue heroic and was still alive, now a blue heroic can kill me with one strike. High HP: Before RoK I needed ~15 min to bring down a yellow named with my coercer, now I would need more than a hour. Mob density: Adds, adds, adds everywhere because of this - it's a nightmare. In many places you can't pull anything because a full room would come. Roamers: All those see invis roamers in combination with the high mob density makes it often impossible to sneak through, you have to fight all mobs. They hit hard, you die often, you repeat over and over from the beginning Immunities: All nameds in the easiest instance CoA are completely CC immun. That is so sick that no more comment is needed. Respawn: 15 min standard respawn was fine. MMIS was the only pre-RoK Zone with 10 min respawn. Now it seems so that 10 min is standard. What's the point? No-Trade: Before RoK only legendary set and some other gear was NO-TRADE, now more than the half of instance loot is NO-TRADE ATM those problems are not visible for most players because they are busy with leveling up and doing quests. But this will change soon. Nobody screamed for more group enforcing before RoK, I don't understand why the devs did that. Is Brad now the new lead dev who try to fulfill his "vision" from a group centric game in EQ2 after he has failed with VG?

[Wastura]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

To put it simple the OP is wrong on quite a few issues.1) The OP has no clue how the raid flagworks each person does not need to clear all tiers.2) Just because solo questing is a viable progression now which it NEVER was before does not mean grouping is not.

I know how the raid flag works. You have the flag you go in, kinda like Deathtoll but in a much more meaningful way, no more 4 people, not even majority [Removed for Content] like EQ1, have or don't, move on or wait for the pick-up people to be able to clear it on a night you don't. Perhaps you didn't play EQ1 or other MMO's, the flags or toggling goes back to Kunark EQ1 style (and Velious etc.)

2.) Grouping is not a viable option. People aren't doing it, the people that are are not getting anything near worthwhile experience for it, if someone does take the time to do all the grinding in a group they are then stuck with needing to do all the solo questing for faction in order to get the quest to raid for a flag to move on. They didn't just make more solo content, they're force feeding it to us so much so that non-solo players will choke.

Alexander@Guk wrote

Who'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the game is called Everquest, not EversoloalotofdifferentQuests. EverQuest is an MMO, as such I expect a game that feels like a massive ammount of multiple players getting together online to complete a goal or "quest." Do not argue semantics, bring something to the table or leave.

Melaine_dvarvensplitter wrote:

I did read the whole post and it seems as if the OP is a bit [Removed for Content] about picking a class that don't solo well, and is worried about his/her slot in a raid even though they are a temp.... /shrug

You're right, I am [Removed for Content] that my class can't solo well. Wearing plate makes it difficult for a caster to cast. No casting, no healing, no living, no leveling, no fun. As far as a raid slot? I've watched rangers struggle to break 500 dps but know enough to move when the AoE comes in or run to the tank when they pull agro while the 2.6k wizard wipes the raid. The issue isn't the player or the class, it's the lack of balance in both class and overall game play.

* 

 I think at this time RoK is right where it should be and with a bit more tweaking I am sure the zones that have some bumps and such will be smoothed out. Heck... look at KoS, EoF, etc they are smoother than they were at launch.

How many people were screaming for weeks about fixxing the old before bringing out the new. Even now people are complain about merged characters, broken spells, broken quests, broken AA's etc etc etc.

Since launch of KoS, the game's underlying mechanics have been changed, from diminishing returns that killed the raider and rewarded the 1200 mit wizard wearing treasured, to the implementation of persistant raid zones that pushed raiders into serious gear overloading. You talk about things being smoothed out, I'm talking about product that didn't work until the dev's saw the players needing the change.

Maroger:

Good points, very valid and I see a lot of what you're saying. SoE is a business, and while I would in their shoes be doing what will bring subscriptions in, I'm afraid they are disappointing their loyal fan base that was in it for the groups and guilds and friendships and raids. I don't play WOW because I didn't like the people there. I've said it before and I'll say it again;

Developers do not make steady customers, the community base does.

Again I'm kind of doing it both ways saying they need to bring in more people like WoW is doubtlessly doing, but that I don't want change in the grouping that I used to experience. To elaborate, there are a lot of people that want to play a game like EQ2 (at least pre-ROK), but I do not think that EQ2 is doing anything to show those people this game. I've seen commercials with William Shatner, Mr. T, they even editted Office Space from Tetris that was being played to WOW (Sit in 70 chat and tell me how long it takes to see someone quote Office Space.)

Vinton wrote:

I have had 1 group in about 30 hours of playing since I've come back.  That's with a 71 assassin and 66 dirge.  And that one group was in KOS, not the new zones.  Oh well, a new era I suppose.  I just can't help but feel I've outgrown the online MMO scene.  Kudos to everyone for whom these games are being made now.  You have myriad choices.  I have none.

I'm sorry Vinton, I'm afraid we'll see more people feeling the same, I think I'm about to that point. I've been working since launch with one group that worked quests I wasn't on yet and didn't backflag so I got no experience, another group in Chardok that yielded very little experience (even with vitality and dropping a 55% potion, yeah that was really worth 3 years of paying the account thanks) and one pick-up group in, you guessed it, HoF (That's in KoS for those paying attention to how much grouping fun you don't have in RoK)

Gungo

are you seriously complaining about not soloing group content?Did you not notice the MAJOR complaint in this expansion is people have to MUCH solo content. Have you not noticed that all overland zones are turned into solo content.there is tons of solo quests and solo named.

I think you missed the point of his post entirely. If you're adressing me than you're way off base, I'm not mad I can't solo group content, I'm mad I can't get a group, mad that getting a group means no experience, and mad that I can't solo solo content.

[XAvengerX]

Soldancer wrote:

ATM those problems are not visible for most players because they are busy with leveling up and doing quests. But this will change soon. Nobody screamed for more group enforcing before RoK, I don't understand why the devs did that. Is Brad now the new lead dev who try to fulfill his "vision" from a group centric game in EQ2 after he has failed with VG?

I enjoy a quest every now and again, but the problem I have with this expansion is it seems the devs are trying to force everyone along a certain path in Kunark from 70-75 which is questing.

It isnt until you get to 75 that you can start doing most of the dungeons and instances. You can go to one of the dungeons but chances are any group will get smacked about a lot until the mobs con white (73-74 in the case of Karnors Castle).

There is really no alternative choice, unless you want to grind solo mobs all day. I am not a great fan of ^ solo named, contested ^^^ heroic named mobs taken out of overland zones just seems a really strange and bizarre turn of direction. OK I am a necro, and I have played 90% of my class vs heroic content and dungeon type environments. Killing solo mobs all day really isnt my thing.

Sony needs to stop fixing things that aren't broken. There was nothing wrong with the Kingdom of Skies and EoF expansion formulas, in my opinion many parts of Kunark are a complete change of direction, and I am hoping future expansions do not herald a disappearance of heroic mobs altogether....

[Poetelia]

First of all, Im sorry to have to make a point about semantics, even when the OP has made clear he doesnt care a lot about them, but I find the point significant. Ive been fighting on these forums for years and Im not going to quit right now. Again I must say:

-Hardcore should mean someone dedicated, that works hard for a goal, understands well the game and its in and outs, spends a lot of time on and is knowledgable about mechanics, lore and his/her role as a given character. Most of the time he/she can boast several years of experience playing MMORPG's and can comment almost any issue of the genre. Thats what hardcore means. Hardcore doesnt mean raider.

-Casual should mean someone that plays the game ocasionally, a few hours here, a few minutes there, certainly not every day, with limited experience and whose commitment to the game is somewhat limited. Casual doesnt mean non raider in general or soloer in particular.

So for instance, when the OP says: "The flip side of that coin is that they really screwed the casual player in compensating the raider", what he is really meaning is "they screwed the non raider player in compensating the raider", and when he says "you make the game casual or you make it hardcore", what he means is "you either make the game more focused on raids or less".

As the OP later recognizes, you can solo several hours a day, taking a week off work, to be 80. That in my book is pretty hardcore. I know a lot hardcore non-raiders. Also I know raiders that never play more than 4 days a week, and no more than 3-4 hours each. Thats a perfect example of a casual raider. And believe me, I know a lot of those too.

I feel the point is well taken, because the simple meaning of hardcore and casual in itself tends to inadvertingly put the listener in a state of mind of giving more credit to a certain playstyle over another.

After the first week or so, when it became obvious that the group exp was terribly unbalanced on dungeons, said exp was corrected and now I think most of us agree it has been more or less tuned right. I have been grouping and soloing for quests and I can say the exp bar is a lot more thankful when grouping than soloing, fortunately I must add.

It could be argued that there should be more heroic quest lines available and definitely I agree with that. I hope that devs correct that issue in several future LU's. But as today, it is perfectly possible to group to 80 at an adequate speed. The problem is that, this time, soloers and small groupers have a way almost as effective, or even more effective according to opinions, to reach the limit and have a happy time too. Frankly, I dont see the problem.

Maybe the problem comes, not from the soloability of the content, but from the fact that everyone can manage. Daig just said: "There is really no alternative choice, unless you want to grind solo mobs all day. I am not a great fan of ^ solo named, contested ^^^ heroic named mobs taken out of overland zones just seems a really strange and bizarre turn of direction. OK I am a necro, and I have played 90% of my class vs heroic content and dungeon type environments. Killing solo mobs all day really isnt my thing".

Notice that Daig doesnt complain of having to solo content to 80... he complains of having to solo the solo content, when he was happily soloing heroic content. He also complains that going to dungeons prior to a level is too hard because the heroic mobs there overwhelm a lesser group: "You can go to one of the dungeons but chances are any group will get smacked about a lot until the mobs con white (73-74 in the case of Karnors Castle)."

Daig, of course there is an alternative choice. Its called grouping, fast killing and questing and going to heroic zones to work for your exp. That or questing. I guess the options are pretty much open for you. What you dont have now are heroic groups easily defeated by a pet class.

Back to the OP. I, personally, try to choose my classes, main and alts, for fun, for the satisfaction I get on playing them. Paladin has been my class since before Kunark in EQ1. You have chosen a class based on desirability on raids. Thats perfectly ok, each one has their own playstyle. But you are bound to your choices. Soloing is slower on a templar, that for sure, but a paladin is not a lot better: we are solid soloers but not fast ones. But I enjoy my class, try to group when I can and have fun exploring and trying different tactics.

Saying EQ2 is very unbalanced class-like is one of the most unfair accusations Ive heard towards the game. Geeeezzz, remember EQ1. You could solo with a druid, a wizzy, a necro or a chanter. Soloing anything green on a tank or a healer was I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E. Period. In EQ2 every single class solo and solo solidly. Besides, youre in a good guild which members will be happy to group with you as my guildies do with me.

"If I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion". That sounds pretty unfair to me too. I could say that "If I wanted to play a game whose only worthy rewards were through raiding I would play EQ1", and it would be equally unfair. Devs are doing a great job of trying to accomodate every playstyle. After PoP Ive grown this mild allergy to raid, so I just do it to complete a quest, to help my friends on a drop or to push my guild thru exp. Almost every single HQ or signature worth the pain ends with a raid and we are forced to do them if we want the reward. If, sometimes, a so-called raider has to do a couple or three quest series, doesnt strike me as the end of the world.

The OP also says: "When the expansion went live, I noticed something disturbing, casual players were running around with gear that was comparable or better than mine". Well, if so, just tell me where they find those great items, because either you or me are sorely mistaken. As Ive said, Im not much on the raiding game, so my gear is not all EoF fabled as yours, but rather a collection of Legendary and fabled, more of the former than the latter, out of EoF instances, and HoF. And after passing thru half of the way to 80 and a looooot of quests rewards, I havent found a single upgrade to any of my armor, jewelry or weapons. Only thing I have upgraded, and not by much, has been my symbol. Just tell me where are those better than EoF fabled solo quest rewards. I want to know.

You finish off saying: "I'm mad I can't get a group, mad that getting a group means no experience, and mad that I can't solo solo content". Well, if you cant get a group, maybe you should consider a change of guild. Saying that in a group you get no exp is a wild exageration. I get a lot more exp from questing on groups and I can advance exp pretty acceptably from hunting with a group. And Ive yet to find a toon incapable of soloing solo content. And believe me, I have almost every class alt.

[re1master]

Wastura wrote

Alexander@Guk wrote

Who'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the game is called Everquest, not EversoloalotofdifferentQuests. EverQuest is an MMO, as such I expect a game that feels like a massive ammount of multiple players getting together online to complete a goal or "quest." Do not argue semantics, bring something to the table or leave.

Well your idea of a MMO is off, to a degree, in my opinion.  EVERYTHING you do effects the community as a whole, that's the point of a MMO.  In real life do you HAVE to bring a group along whenever you have to do something? No.  So why should you in a game?  I solo plenty on my guardian and assassin, and I group plenty, and raid occasionally.  I think it's good that soloing has been made a viable option.  Whenever I play the broker game I interact with the community as a whole, does that not count towards it's massiveness?  I'm sorry, but I like the idea of my character going out and exploring a dangerous new world on his own.   What's wrong with other players that enjoy questing?And don't tell me to leave, I have every right to post feedback to your comments as you do to mine.

[Yimway]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

To put it simple the OP is wrong on quite a few issues.1) The OP has no clue how the raid flagworks each person does not need to clear all tiers.2) Just because solo questing is a viable progression now which it NEVER was before does not mean grouping is not.

Grouping is not a viable means of progression, as such you can't even find a group 70+ to progress with.EQ2 had been the MMO for people who liked community and grouping.  It was the one thing that really separated it from the other MMO's on the market.  Now, its just like the rest.I'm disheartened that SoE couldn't realize they added more value being different from the pack rather than trying to mimic the rest.I personally have decided to abandon EQ2 with this expansion, it represents a paradigm shift from what the game had meant to me for the 3 years prior to this expansion.6 people should not sacrifice to do something together, in fact, 6 people doing something together should be more rewarding than soloing.   Not everyone agrees with me on that statement, however the majority of my guild is and has been in EQ2 for that _very_ reason. We've tried different MMO's over the past three years: WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard, CoH, and others.  None of them held our interests cause of their lobsided solo content development and unrewarding group content.In short, EQ2 was the only modern MMO where community really mattered, however with RoK community is secondary, or honestly not even remotely needed.I don't think there is a *tweak* to fix this, this was a design decision that was made before anyone had a chance to provide feedback on it.So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[re1master]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

To put it simple the OP is wrong on quite a few issues.1) The OP has no clue how the raid flagworks each person does not need to clear all tiers.2) Just because solo questing is a viable progression now which it NEVER was before does not mean grouping is not.

Grouping is not a viable means of progression, as such you can't even find a group 70+ to progress with.EQ2 had been the MMO for people who liked community and grouping.  It was the one thing that really separated it from the other MMO's on the market.  Now, its just like the rest.I'm disheartened that SoE couldn't realize they added more value being different from the pack rather than trying to mimic the rest.I personally have decided to abandon EQ2 with this expansion, it represents a paradigm shift from what the game had meant to me for the 3 years prior to this expansion.6 people should not sacrifice to do something together, in fact, 6 people doing something together should be more rewarding than soloing.   Not everyone agrees with me on that statement, however the majority of my guild is and has been in EQ2 for that _very_ reason. We've tried different MMO's over the past three years: WoW, LoTRO, Vanguard, CoH, and others.  None of them held our interests cause of their lobsided solo content development and unrewarding group content.In short, EQ2 was the only modern MMO where community really mattered, however with RoK community is secondary, or honestly not even remotely needed.I don't think there is a *tweak* to fix this, this was a design decision that was made before anyone had a chance to provide feedback on it.So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Come on, don't lie to back up your point.  my guild had a consistant group going, and my friend's guild (whom I often duo with or group with), had about 3 groups going at any time, not to mention I was recieving constant tells asking for us to join groups.  Not everyone is trying to powerlevel, some of us are taking our time and enjoying the game still, maybe you just play with the wrong crowd.  If your guild really is so concerned about this, why not group within your guild?::Alexander.

[Jovie]

Atan are you not gone yet? I'm surprised you are still moping about these parts.

The original poster did an excellent job in getting his thoughts down in a mature manner. Though i don't share your sentiment, i think you came across as educated and thought provoking. Your post sure as hell makes 99 percent of the other crap we read on these boards look just like that.....crap.

While i am truly enjoying the new expansion and the rewarding solo play, i can also feel for the groupers out there. Three shared dungeons. That is pretty weak. I am assuming that sony will use the year in between packs to bring more on line.

As for raiding, i could care less. In my personal opinion raiding is a waste of time, dev manpower and throws tuning out the window. But i am the minority on that subject, and i accept that role. I just choose not to raid.

Anyway, Atan if your heading out why not take some of the other haters out with you? 

[Yimway]

Alexander@Guk wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Come on, don't lie to back up your point.  my guild had a consistant group going, and my friend's guild (whom I often duo with or group with), had about 3 groups going at any time, not to mention I was recieving constant tells asking for us to join groups.  Not everyone is trying to powerlevel, some of us are taking our time and enjoying the game still, maybe you just play with the wrong crowd.  If your guild really is so concerned about this, why not group within your guild?::Alexander.

Man, I'm so sick of beating a dead horse.Taking 6 people 70-75 into KC for 3 hours yeilds ~15% xp (with the new bonus).  The same 6 people solo questing for 3 hours earns 30-75% xp.Those 6 people grouping are sacrificing to be doing content together vs the level of rewards for doing content separately.Our guild does put groups together.  In fact durring prime time, its not unusual for 2 of the 3 groups in KC to be wearing our tag. However every time we group we recognize we're choosing the worst path of advancenemt, leaving a very, very sour taste in our mouths.  I personally feel bad asking my friends to come group up in KC when I know I'm asking them to come get crappy rewards and XP compared to us all going out and soloing.Now, if there were enough heroic quest progressions to do to level 70-80 like there are solo quests (and like IMO there has always been in EQ2 until now), there wouldn't be these problems.  There isn't enough heroic content 70-76, there are about 5% as many heroic quests for 70-76 as there should have been. And the rewards for doing that content is still siginifcantly worse compared to the same time spent soloing.

[Bramwe]

Alexander@Guk wrote:

"In short, if I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion."  - WasturaBwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaWho'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

Some definitions of the word quest: The journey a hero takes to achieve his goal, A quest is a journey towards a goal, A quest in a gaming context, especially in MMORPGs, is generally a task or series of tasks, which a player or group of players may complete in order to gain a reward.  A raid is a task.  Finishing an instance with 6 people is a task.  Killing 3 frogs and 10 skeletons is a task.  This seems like a word that can be interpreted very broadly.  My never ending quest is to obtain better gear/skills through groups and raids and taking on challenges that require more than one person to accomplish...the whole EverQUEST thing is a pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] argument if you ask me. 

[Yimway]

Jovie@Guk wrote:

Anyway, Atan if your heading out why not take some of the other haters out with you? 

I know quite a few others that have also canceled for the same reasons.  So, I imagine I'm taking some of the 'haters' with me.

[Yimway]

Bramwell@Guk wrote:

Alexander@Guk wrote:

"In short, if I wanted to play a game alone with a lot of quests, I would play Oblivion."  - WasturaBwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahaAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaWho'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

My never ending quest is to obtain better gear/skills through groups and raids and taking on challenges that require more than one person to accomplish...the whole EverQUEST thing is a pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] argument if you ask me. 

I assume anyone that makes these arguments just never played EQ1.I don't think anyone has a problem with Solo questing to be an option, its when it is _the_ option that some of us begin to have concern.

[phoenixshard]

Wastura wrote:

Alexander@Guk wrote

Who'd have guessed that questing would be an option in EverQUEST?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the game is called Everquest, not EversoloalotofdifferentQuests. EverQuest is an MMO, as such I expect a game that feels like a massive ammount of multiple players getting together online to complete a goal or "quest." Do not argue semantics, bring something to the table or leave.

   

MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online, it does not mean that everyone has to become a part of any community that builds up around the game. In my case, I don't interact with anyone in game for the most part other than real life friends.  I don't play Everquest to make new friends or for any social reasons.  I play because I prefer to play in a dynamic gaming world for relaxation rather than a static one like an offline RPG offers.There was another line where you said that you are upset because your class can't solo that well.  That was your choice to make that character and keep it.  A game should not be changed just so that you can have an easier time advancing your character.  If you want to group, then group, but don't say that is the only playstyle since that is what MMO's were created for, there are others that others find just as enjoyable.

[Yimway]

phoenixshard wrote:

There was another line where you said that you are upset because your class can't solo that well.  That was your choice to make that character and keep it.  A game should not be changed just so that you can have an easier time advancing your character.  If you want to group, then group, but don't say that is the only playstyle since that is what MMO's were created for, there are others that others find just as enjoyable.

I believe the point he was making is grouping has all but been removed from the game as a viable means of leveling.  He can't find groups to level with cause the 5 other classes grouping with him will be sacrificing their time to do group content vs doing it solo.  Its the healers and support classes that complain the most about the solo progression mandate.

[re1master]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Alexander@Guk wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Come on, don't lie to back up your point.  my guild had a consistant group going, and my friend's guild (whom I often duo with or group with), had about 3 groups going at any time, not to mention I was recieving constant tells asking for us to join groups.  Not everyone is trying to powerlevel, some of us are taking our time and enjoying the game still, maybe you just play with the wrong crowd.  If your guild really is so concerned about this, why not group within your guild?::Alexander.

Man, I'm so sick of beating a dead horse.Taking 6 people 70-75 into KC for 3 hours yeilds ~15% xp (with the new bonus).  The same 6 people solo questing for 3 hours earns 30-75% xp.Those 6 people grouping are sacrificing to be doing content together vs the level of rewards for doing content separately.Our guild does put groups together.  In fact durring prime time, its not unusual for 2 of the 3 groups in KC to be wearing our tag. However every time we group we recognize we're choosing the worst path of advancenemt, leaving a very, very sour taste in our mouths.  I personally feel bad asking my friends to come group up in KC when I know I'm asking them to come get crappy rewards and XP compared to us all going out and soloing.Now, if there were enough heroic quest progressions to do to level 70-80 like there are solo quests (and like IMO there has always been in EQ2 until now), there wouldn't be these problems.  There isn't enough heroic content 70-76, there are about 5% as many heroic quests for 70-76 as there should have been. And the rewards for doing that content is still siginifcantly worse compared to the same time spent soloing.

So grouping DOES give exp right?  It is an option?  Okay good just making sure.Yes, I think group content does need a larger exp boost, but I personally like grouping because it gives me a break when I become bored of questing, which happens pretty quick (do a round of quests, group some, do a round of quests, group some...etc).  I'm obviously in no rush to 80, as I'm only just now approaching 72, I'm taking my time, grouping or questing depending on what I feel like, I think you should do the same, don't turn leveling into a race.

[Yimway]

Alexander@Guk wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrot

So grouping DOES give exp right?  It is an option?  Okay good just making sure.Yes, I think group content does need a larger exp boost, but I personally like grouping because it gives me a break when I become bored of questing, which happens pretty quick (do a round of quests, group some, do a round of quests, group some...etc).  I'm obviously in no rush to 80, as I'm only just now approaching 72, I'm taking my time, grouping or questing depending on what I feel like, I think you should do the same, don't turn leveling into a race.

Kendrick makes this point far more eloquently than I do...Its not about a race, its about using what time you have most effectively.  Doing group content is making a conscious decision to use your time in a less effective manner.  IMO, This is flat out the wrong mechanic for EQ2.   Doing content as a group _should_ be a conscious decision to use your time in the most effective manner.   My point is they've placed the carrot only in front of the solo progression and have effectively removed community from the game.As far as solo questing, I'd assume repeatedly slam my head in a door than do a solo quest in an MMO.  I've done ~50 since expansion, and I recognize there is no way in hell I'm doing how many are required to level so I can start into raid content.  I personally refuse to pay to grind content I loathe to do so I can get to what brings me into the game in the first place.  Others just take it as a necessary penance to get back to raiding.  I suppose I'm just hard headed in that I expect the progression I had since launch day to still exist.

[Pyra Shineflame]

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Alexander@Guk wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Come on, don't lie to back up your point.  my guild had a consistant group going, and my friend's guild (whom I often duo with or group with), had about 3 groups going at any time, not to mention I was recieving constant tells asking for us to join groups.  Not everyone is trying to powerlevel, some of us are taking our time and enjoying the game still, maybe you just play with the wrong crowd.  If your guild really is so concerned about this, why not group within your guild?::Alexander.

Man, I'm so sick of beating a dead horse.Taking 6 people 70-75 into KC for 3 hours yeilds ~15% xp (with the new bonus).  The same 6 people solo questing for 3 hours earns 30-75% xp.Those 6 people grouping are sacrificing to be doing content together vs the level of rewards for doing content separately.Our guild does put groups together.  In fact durring prime time, its not unusual for 2 of the 3 groups in KC to be wearing our tag. However every time we group we recognize we're choosing the worst path of advancenemt, leaving a very, very sour taste in our mouths.  I personally feel bad asking my friends to come group up in KC when I know I'm asking them to come get crappy rewards and XP compared to us all going out and soloing.Now, if there were enough heroic quest progressions to do to level 70-80 like there are solo quests (and like IMO there has always been in EQ2 until now), there wouldn't be these problems.  There isn't enough heroic content 70-76, there are about 5% as many heroic quests for 70-76 as there should have been. And the rewards for doing that content is still siginifcantly worse compared to the same time spent soloing.

You are tired of beating a dead horse? I've been going around posts to all the whiners about ow RoK signals a shift to soloing only conveniently forgetting something that was supposed to be in this expansion but was rolled back.

Epic weapons.

Correct me if I am wrong but there was supposed to be ample grouping and epic questing line in order to gain these.

Since they got taken out we are seeing less than we would.

Complain that the epic weapons were taken out, not that SOE is screwing over grouping content.

Sheesh.

[Yimway]

Pyra Shineflame wrote:

Atan@Unrest wrote:

You are tired of beating a dead horse? I've been going around posts to all the whiners about ow RoK signals a shift to soloing only conveniently forgetting something that was supposed to be in this expansion but was rolled back.

Epic weapons.

Correct me if I am wrong but there was supposed to be ample grouping and epic questing line in order to gain these.

Since they got taken out we are seeing less than we would.

Complain that the epic weapons were taken out, not that SOE is screwing over grouping content.

Sheesh.

I'm not going to bother to dig up the links atm as they aren't handy...However, SoE said on multiple occasions that starting your epic progression would be recommended content for level 80, and likely impossible to start prior to 78.I'm not complaining about them not being in, as I can't progress to the min level to start them.Now, there was some heroic progression arcs that existed in beta that didn't go live.  I've sure complained about the decision to remove those.