Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem

[Elephanton]

Thread title should read:"Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem" 

While I am wholeheartedly for this change, personally I will miss leveling alts with locked XP.There are so many nice quest at T2-T3 I loved to do.

So, here's my idea how to both permit combat XP locking, and address "locked twinks pwning noobs in CL/Ant" issue. 

Very simple:If you are locked, you cannot engage enemy in PVP (but you can fight back once they engage you).

This is a trade off for being locked.So in order to hunt, you will have to unlock. But hunting with combat XP enabled will move you to 30 in a matter of days,  thus no more gank squads of people locked at 14. You kill a few people - ding - you are 15 already.

On the other hand, if you want to just be twinking your char beyond your wildest dreams - do all possible quests, cap your AA - fine, but you will not be able to attack people who might not be doing same thing as you.

May be they should also add XP lock timeout (i.e. you cannot change combat XP state more than once in 1 hour), but I am not really sure if this is even needed.

BTW this proposal also solves the problem with after-ROK newbies, who will never be able to get same amount of AA at level 30 (which will be new lock level I suppose) with the currently planned change as those people who are grinding they chars to 30 doing quests with locked XP right now, while it is still possible. Those people will be gods now (and will probably choose to stay locked at 30 forever abusing the unfair advantage they have). With the proposed change though, everyone can still get to level 30 with capped AA, if they want that.

EDITED to include even better idea!

I've been reading this and came out with even better option.

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

Same, everyone gets a choice:1. Either you gank people, and level past T2 really fast, coming to 30 with no AAs.2. Or you forget about PVPing and do quests to get maximum AA until you hit 30.

I like this even better, because it is easier to implement and has no limitations connected with it (unability to attack players in locked state, like with my initial suggestion). And it makes better sense overall (how can you not be getting XP for killing your foes)?

Ideally, this rule should span whole level range until 80, this will resolve level locking issue once and for all... without removing level locking itself!

[Verith]

I like this idea, cant think of a thing to change or help it at all.

[fxt]

This is a good change.  I for one think it will drastically reduce gank squads in the lower levels because they will be too busy questing for AA since they have to level.  This window gives time for the new player to learn their toon before they run into a x2

[HerbertWalker]

If I just started playing EQ2 right after your proposed change went live, and then read about how the server used to be, I would be very disappointed that I did not get a chance to partake in the fun of suiting up an uber character to dominate the lands.

I prefer a game that has tons of freedom to distinguish my character from the masses.   Just my opinion.

[Elephanton]

Wow not sure what happened with the title, it should read"Another take to "no-locking-til-30" problem"

I would appreciate if a moderator could fix it, because just editing the first post won't change the title.

[zaltar]

Not a bad idea however I must laugh once again at the many protests regarding the idea of not beingable to lock.level lockers should just admit that the real reason they don`t want to lose that option is because they willout level the gear that they have spent tons of plat on and in order to remain competitive they will have tore equip for each tier making the entire concept of having a massive gear advantage both expensive and difficult.Why do it all over again if you can avoid it ?By locking they can pour all of their resources into that particular tier , have the best of everything and dominatethe pvp in those levels rather than be forced into having to spend more plat every 10 levels or so.Thats pretty much their entire plan from the start , put everything into a low level character , make it as strong as possiblelock it , and kill everyone that`s passing through that tier trying to level up.They get their fame , title , whatever , pvp others who are doing the same thing and never have any intention of levelingany further , for them this is the entire game , no worries about having to work to upgrade for new levels.This is why people might be better off planning for end game pvp and saving thier resources for that purpose instead oflocking in whatever tier in order to avoid the cost associated with trying to dominate each tier.IMHO I don`t believe the pvp model was originally designed for low level exploitation of the pve locking feature primarilybecause in many 50 + areas there are no level restrictions on pvp, that should be when consideration of pouring everything into the best gear on the market begins.As long as locking is an option people will continue to remain in whatever tier they decide to pvp in once they have thebest equipment.If they restrict the option to lock until 30 , people will just change their strategy to equip for that tier , lock and dominatepvp in those levels , it won`t change anything.It`s all just going to shift to that tier .Since locking has it`s benefits for content purposes there exists a clear dilemma  over whether or not it should be allowedon a pvp enabled server or not.Maybe putting a time limit in number of days in which locking is allowed might be a solution , that way people could still gainthe advantages of locking for content but not be allowed to stay locked in that tier indefinitely.

[Elephanton]

Good stuff...I've been reading this and came out with even better option.

Here it comes:

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

Same, everyone gets a choice:1. Either you gank people, and level past T2 really fast, coming to 30 with no AAs.2. Or you forget about PVPing and do quests to get maximum AA until you hit 30.

I like this even better, because it is easier to implement and has no limitations connected with it (unability to attack players in locked state, like with my initial suggestion). And it makes better sense overall (how can you not be getting XP for killing your foes)?

Ideally, this rule should span whole level range until 80, this will resolve level locking issue once and for all... without removing level locking itself!

[Spyderbite]

ElephantonRU wrote:

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.

No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.

[max.power]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.

No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.

I think it's already that way. The problem is that this blue solo gets a full fame hit, regardless if he got killed by 2, 3 or 6 people (within fame range). The fame should be divided by group members before it's removed from the solo and then (once more) be divided between them.

[Elephanton]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.

No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.

Wait a second. You cannot attack greys up until Sinking Sands, right?Meaning, every kill in any T1-T4 zone will give you combat XP.

Or am I missing your point here?

[Crimson Lord]

I for one am totally against the concept of you have to go to 30. I think too many people whine in this game if you new players are tired of being ganked by people then go to pve. So now i get to have soe dictate how i play the game now by forcing me to go to 30. So whats to stop me from locking at 30 and ganking people as they come up. Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [Removed for Content] near impossible to kill most of the time? I mean its bad enough commonlands, antonica, are as barren as they are now. lets just take 1-29 levels completely out of the equation hell why not have commandlands, and antonica just fall into the ocean or something you think their barren now force people to have to go to 30. Never thought i be playing a game where I can not play the game how I WANT to play it. I enjoy the quests and action in the lower tiers not too many spells from either side for their appropriate classes its a challenge tbh. Now I know someone is gonna say well you must be a plat farmer you must have over 100 plat to completely twink your low level toon, well your wrong. Maybe if you took the time to actually develop your toon instead of rushing to get up in levels you'd find that pvp gear is not a plat at that level hell its under 3g. All it takes is some pvp you want to roll solo your gonna get ganked it has happened to me numerous occasions sure it pisses me off but its a fact of a PVP server. If players are so worried about being ganked in t2 then like I said before go to a pve server.

[Origin]

Crimson Lord wrote:

I for one am totally against the concept of you have to go to 30. I think too many people whine in this game if you new players are tired of being ganked by people then go to pve. So now i get to have soe dictate how i play the game now by forcing me to go to 30. So whats to stop me from locking at 30 and ganking people as they come up. Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [I cannot control my vocabulary] near impossible to kill most of the time? I mean its bad enough commonlands, antonica, are as barren as they are now. lets just take 1-29 levels completely out of the equation hell why not have commandlands, and antonica just fall into the ocean or something you think their barren now force people to have to go to 30. Never thought i be playing a game where I can not play the game how I WANT to play it. I enjoy the quests and action in the lower tiers not too many spells from either side for their appropriate classes its a challenge tbh. Now I know someone is gonna say well you must be a plat farmer you must have over 100 plat to completely twink your low level toon, well your wrong. Maybe if you took the time to actually develop your toon instead of rushing to get up in levels you'd find that pvp gear is not a plat at that level hell its under 3g. All it takes is some pvp you want to roll solo your gonna get ganked it has happened to me numerous occasions sure it pisses me off but its a fact of a PVP server. If players are so worried about being ganked in t2 then like I said before go to a pve server.

Well, the way it works now is that new players have to have the way they play the game dictated by a bunch of jerk twinkers who grief constantly.  I shouldn't have to go play on a PvE server just to be able to enjoy the game.  PvP is not getting a group of twinks together to repeatedly kill new players who are still trying to learn the game.  I enjoy PvP.  I've enjoyed PvP for more than 15 years.  What I do not enjoy is getting killed by the same people over and over again with absolutely NO WAY of defending myself.  If you think that's PvP then you don't know what PvP is.  It also doesn't matter if I roll solo or with a group, because a group of twinks is going to demolish a normal group every time.  There is no competition in that, no honor, and no fun for anyone except the twinks.

[Tae]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy.

I just killed a Q spying with a level 5 freep in Kingdom of the Sky and oh no I'm a champion again. I just attacked a full group of greens who are attacking someone I know and oh dear I am a destroyer what is this. This system would be dumb and would massively penalise the people who are at the level cap, since there's no reds or oranges for us. And yes the reason I want level locking removed is it's just impossible for a legitimate lower level to compete. Being constantly killed by people you cannot hurt isn't fun. It's frustrating.

[Wytie]

I just wanta say im all for making pvp give xp, just dont change anything else.

I like AA and i like choices, to lock and unlock depending on the level of you friends. Pvp is alot better when your the same level as your groups mates.

Leave level locking as it is just add xp to pvp kills and lower faction requirements a tad and we will be good.

You have to lock in order to even think about getting aa and faction, theres just no way around it period.

[XeroXs84]

Still wondering where that rumor came from.. Its not like that on beta or on test (as test pvp is down since ages)...so?

[Wytie]

Fizzie@Nagafen wrote:

Still wondering where that rumor came from.. Its not like that on beta or on test (as test pvp is down since ages)...so?

are there any pvp changes that you know of?

[Bogenbroom123]

This has always been what I view as SOE's problem.  They base 100% of their changes on the whining complaints of people in the forums.  If SOE puts level locking in the game, and people are used to it and enjoy it, it should stay.  People should be allowed to play the game however they want to play it, and not be "forced" to play it based on how other people feel they should play it.  Just because a minority of people don't like it when others level lock, it doesn't mean that it should be removed from the game.  I currently have locked toons in each tier.  I like to pvp at each tier 10-19, 20-29, etc., up to 70.  Not only is it fun to have the variety, but, when one tier is slow, I change to another, and can usually find pvp.  PVP is the only reason I continue to play this game.  I think this change would be as bad for pvp as the change they made with level restrictions in the various zones, i.e. where CL and Ant used to thrive with pvp, now we see only rare sightings of small groups to fight.  I miss old Rallos Zek EQ1 days.  It was a pvp server for pvpers and not people who wanted to change how everyone else enjoyed the game.  When I see people posting about removing  level locks and other things that other people actually enjoy, then I wonder how many little hitlers are running around the world of norrath and how often SOE is supporting that mentality.

[Origin]

How do you know what SOE bases their changes on?  Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice.  If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem.  By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should.  I just spent $40 to re-download the game, coming back after I had heard PvP was now implemented in the game.  I've spent the last 3 days dying over and over again to groups of level-locked twinks, no matter where I go.  Any place they know will have defenseless lowbs, they will be there in groups or by themselves, one or two shotting them.  I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST.  Most of the time I get killed enroute.  I'm completely broke... why?  I die too much to be able to buy any gear.  Bank it?  That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked.  You think this is fun?  You think people are out of line for not enjoying this?  The new expac is coming out tomorrow, and I don't even know if I want to drop more money into SOE's pockets, knowing it's just going to be more of the same.  I've been pvping in many different games for more than 15 years, and I've never felt like quitting a new game because I wasn't able to make any progress due to griefers, but that's how I feel, right now.  As long as the game supports and enables groups of players who have spent months building killers to go out and harvest noobs, it will be weak.  I am in favor of level-locking, but also of giving XP for PvP... the game shouldn't be ruined for everyone just because some people think it's fun to spend months of preparation to be able to kill the defenseless. 

[convict]

Origin wrote:

How do you know what SOE bases their changes on?  Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice.  If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem.  By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should.  I just spent $40 to re-download the game, coming back after I had heard PvP was now implemented in the game.  I've spent the last 3 days dying over and over again to groups of level-locked twinks, no matter where I go.  Any place they know will have defenseless lowbs, they will be there in groups or by themselves, one or two shotting them.  I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST.  Most of the time I get killed enroute.  I'm completely broke... why?  I die too much to be able to buy any gear.  Bank it?  That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked.  You think this is fun?  You think people are out of line for not enjoying this?  The new expac is coming out tomorrow, and I don't even know if I want to drop more money into SOE's pockets, knowing it's just going to be more of the same.  I've been pvping in many different games for more than 15 years, and I've never felt like quitting a new game because I wasn't able to make any progress due to griefers, but that's how I feel, right now.  As long as the game supports and enables groups of players who have spent months building killers to go out and harvest noobs, it will be weak.  I am in favor of level-locking, but also of giving XP for PvP... the game shouldn't be ruined for everyone just because some people think it's fun to spend months of preparation to be able to kill the defenseless. 

VERY well said...

[Bogenbroom123]

[Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice.  If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem.  By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. ]

All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing."  I know for a fact that lowbie toons aren't being pk'd 100% of the time they are getting exp.  Also, most people who pvp in any tier pk someone, then move on.  The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people.  This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums.  They get pk'd once by someone, revive, and head out, and someone else kills them.  They consider that "griefing," even though it isn't.  I am not saying that some people who pvp don't act like jerks when pvping, but to me and everyone I've ever pvp'd with, griefing is just a waste of time.  We make our kills, and move on. 

 Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing.  I got jacked when my toons were low level.  I still get killed often.  Does it bother me?  Nope.  Why not?  Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time.  When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it.  It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills.  If you're lazy, I guess it is.  If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. 

Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say.

 [I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST.  Most of the time I get killed enroute.  I'm completely broke... why?  I die too much to be able to buy any gear.  Bank it?  That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. ]

I think that's complete bs.  I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides.  Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that.  I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.

[Origin]

It's a shame you feel you need to make your point with ad hom attacks.  But I will address what you said nonetheless.[All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing."]Continuing to whine?  I made a single post about level-locking.  When I came to look at thread again, I saw what someone had said, and decided to respond.  I don't really think that qualifies as continuing to whine.[The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people.  This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums.]I'm not sure what's typical or not, as I don't spend much time in the forums.  However, I don't apply the term, "griefing," to getting ganked by different groups of people.  I apply the term, "griefing," to the same individuals or groups repeatedly killing you, hanging out by your respawn point, and then killing you again, and again, and again.  I apply the term, "griefing," to the people who hunt noobie levelling spots and kill people who cannot defend themselves.[Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing.  I got jacked when my toons were low level.  I still get killed often.  Does it bother me?  Nope.  Why not?  Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time.  When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it.  It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills.  If you're lazy, I guess it is.  If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. ]I've asked for nothing for free, and I haven't cried or whined.  Are you so bothered by a different opinion on an opinion discussion forum that you must lash at people who don't think like you?  When did you make your first toon on Nag?  It matters, because the longer a server exists, the greater chance that the number of level-locked twinks will increase.  Meaning, the server when you started could be a very different animal than it is now.[Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say.]I didn't say that EVERY zone with lowbs was under attack 100% of the time, because I haven't been to every zone.  I've spent all my 10+ time in the Commonlands and in DLW.[I think that's complete bs.  I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides.  Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that.  I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.]Factual... Okay.  I have 2 characters.  My Necromancer has 11 hours of play time.  He is level 14.  Now, subtract from the 11 hours, the time it took me to hit level 10, including all the running around trying to figure out my class and zone.  I'll help you out.... It took me about 4 or 5 hours to get from level 10 to level 14.  In that time I amassed 19 deaths and no kills.  Almost all of them were from two different groups of the same people.  Much of that 4 or 5 hours was spent sitting with immunity at the fair, trying to wait for it to clear up enough for me to run out.My Shadowknight is level 17.  I took him to DLW from the Ruins at level 12 and spent much of a day trying to XP and Quest, with frequent stops back to Scale Yard to check at the broker.  So, in 5 levels, he died 20 times, from the same people almost every time.  In fact, the reason I stopped playing him and started my necromancer was because I couldn't leave a safe area without dying. So, all told, on both of my characters, I've died 39 times in about 10 hours of game play, though as I said, much of that time was spent re-buffing, waiting in immunity for the all clear, zoning back and forth for extended immunity, etc.  Anyway... I'm not whining about it.  This is a forum, and I felt I needed to say my piece about level-locking, or rather the excuses that gankers make as to why they need it... Feel free to respond with more vitriol, though... it proves your point so well.Edit:  By the way... I've played and PvP'd in Q2WF, CS, D2, EQ, Shadowbane, AO, L2, RYL, DAOC, WoW, EVE, SWG, Runescape(lol), as well as games going as far back as 1200bd modems on 286SX computers, using nothing but text, and this is the FIRST time I've made a complaint about being griefed, so you can take that, "whiny" BS and shove it up thine [Removed for Content].

[ladyvengeance]

Bogenbroom123 wrote:

[Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice.  If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem.  By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should. ]

All I see when I look at this post is someone continuing to whine about what they consider "griefing."  I know for a fact that lowbie toons aren't being pk'd 100% of the time they are getting exp.  Also, most people who pvp in any tier pk someone, then move on.  The term "griefing" should not be applied to getting pk'd by different groups of people.  This is typical of the whiners who post on the pvp forums.  They get pk'd once by someone, revive, and head out, and someone else kills them.  They consider that "griefing," even though it isn't.  I am not saying that some people who pvp don't act like jerks when pvping, but to me and everyone I've ever pvp'd with, griefing is just a waste of time.  We make our kills, and move on. 

 Another point to understand is that I, yes that's me, started out on the server with nothing.  I got jacked when my toons were low level.  I still get killed often.  Does it bother me?  Nope.  Why not?  Because a. it's a game and b. I'm not a cry baby about it and c. it gave me more reason to better my toon and come back stronger the next time.  When I see people whining about how they get ganked and killed and complaining nonstop about how unfair it is, I always remember that I had nothing when I started and I rose above it.  It's not impossible to get better gear/spells/skills.  If you're lazy, I guess it is.  If you're a pathetic whiner who just wants eveything for free, then maybe it is. 

Also, I know for a fact that not every zone which lower level players exp in is under attack 100% of the time like that whiny posting was trying to say.

 [I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST.  Most of the time I get killed enroute.  I'm completely broke... why?  I die too much to be able to buy any gear.  Bank it?  That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked. ]

I think that's complete bs.  I started on the server when the population was 5 or 10 times as much as it is now, and I know exactly how it is on both sides.  Try posting something that's factual, instead of making up complete bs like that.  I think it's time for SOE to stop spoon feeding the weak.

Very well said. I also agree with you on your earlier point about locking toons in each tier so you can enjoy the game more fully. If level locking was removed and I had 7 level 80 characters......well, that just seems boring as hell. Taking the same 7 character through the same zones fighting the same people. By locking toons in different levels I not only get to see more of the game, but I get to group with different people and fight different people.

I too, started with nothing. I got ganked a lot. I  didn't cry about it or quit. I learned to play and got better. Getting ganked just gave me the motivation to get better. If you're getting ganked a lot, then log out and come back later or move to a different zone -- there are tons of so-called "noob" zones around Norrath for you to do quests in. Also, if you're getting one-shotted then you need some better gear. Get into a guild and have them help you with that.

Guys, it's really not that difficult. It will take some time; you won't learn to play this overnight.

[zaltar]

Origin wrote:

How do you know what SOE bases their changes on?  Yet another person whining about how we should be able to play the game however we want, but has no problem with the fact that new players, or people new to the server don't get the same choice.  If someone makes a toon on whichever server, and gets killed by the same level-locking twinks over and over again in the freaking noob area, there is a problem.  By griefing lowbs, you are FORCING them to play the game based on how YOU feel they should.  I just spent $40 to re-download the game, coming back after I had heard PvP was now implemented in the game.  I've spent the last 3 days dying over and over again to groups of level-locked twinks, no matter where I go.  Any place they know will have defenseless lowbs, they will be there in groups or by themselves, one or two shotting them.  I usually have about 5 minutes at the most at any given quest or xp spot before I get rolled... at the MOST.  Most of the time I get killed enroute.  I'm completely broke... why?  I die too much to be able to buy any gear.  Bank it?  That'd be nice, but I can't even make it to the bank without getting ganked.  You think this is fun?  You think people are out of line for not enjoying this?  The new expac is coming out tomorrow, and I don't even know if I want to drop more money into SOE's pockets, knowing it's just going to be more of the same.  I've been pvping in many different games for more than 15 years, and I've never felt like quitting a new game because I wasn't able to make any progress due to griefers, but that's how I feel, right now.  As long as the game supports and enables groups of players who have spent months building killers to go out and harvest noobs, it will be weak.  I am in favor of level-locking, but also of giving XP for PvP... the game shouldn't be ruined for everyone just because some people think it's fun to spend months of preparation to be able to kill the defenseless. 

          On my high level char I was killed more than 500 times within 6 weeks or so by gangs when I was caught solo anywhere in the game.          On another more recent alt . I was killed within 10 minutes of dinging level 10 , in fact I was standing there examining my upgrades          from my new level when I got wacked .          In a balanced fight I would be concerned about performance but when people group against a solo it`s no mystery that it requires          0 skill , they believe according to the system that they have achieved something , I know they have achieved nothing .          Fortunately , due to the fact that the pvp in this game has a questionable reputation based on commentary that exists on other          boards out there , I was prepared before I began playing here for what goes on as it has been described in exact detail by long time          players who got tired of wasting their time and money on an unsupervised gank fest mmorpg populated by groups of kids who          believe their engaging in hard core pvp because Sony has handed them a license to grief .          Just to be clear , it won`t change in higher tiers.          You will still have the same mentality of players camping spawns , quest areas etc. in every tier all the way up.          I continue to play this game because the majority of the good pvp games Iv`e played are to much of a grindfest and          are limited on content.          This game IMHO is very good on content compared to others and it`s easy exp.                                    

[KarmaPimp]

Anyone who believes Sony is stupid enough to make a move like this should be playing WoW instead.  If you don't like getting ganked by Tweaks then play on a PVE server or make a toon on the PVP practice server (Vox) until you learn how to PVP.  Or maybe try out a non-RPG where all toons are identical.  Putting everyone on an even keel completely defeats the purpose of playing an RPG in the first place.  If you people thought through how many problems doing away with locking would cause and how terrible it would be for the game you would call yourself crazy for wanting to do away with it.  There is a 0% chance of this happening. 

If you want to help out people new to the game the only way to do that would be to lower the PVP ranges again.  Maybe even taking PVP out of areas like The Peat Bog, Oakmyst, Forest Ruins, The Caves, Graveyard, Sunken City and The Sprawl would be a great idea.  Then lower the PVP range in CL and Ant to 2 and it would help protect newbs from getting ganked and discourage others from low level ganking without destroying the game. 

[zorros]

KarmaPimp wrote:

Anyone who believes Sony is stupid enough to make a move like this should be playing WoW instead.  If you don't like getting ganked by Tweaks then play on a PVE server or make a toon on the PVP practice server (Vox) until you learn how to PVP.  Or maybe try out a non-RPG where all toons are identical.  Putting everyone on an even keel completely defeats the purpose of playing an RPG in the first place.  If you people thought through how many problems doing away with locking would cause and how terrible it would be for the game you would call yourself crazy for wanting to do away with it.  There is a 0% chance of this happening. 

If you want to help out people new to the game the only way to do that would be to lower the PVP ranges again.  Maybe even taking PVP out of areas like The Peat Bog, Oakmyst, Forest Ruins, The Caves, Graveyard, Sunken City and The Sprawl would be a great idea.  Then lower the PVP range in CL and Ant to 2 and it would help protect newbs from getting ganked and discourage others from low level ganking without destroying the game. 

Please explain the problems it would cause.

[Outkasted2006]

Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA.

 No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period.

 1.) What it promotes it bad enough.

 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.

For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.

But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA.

 Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.

[Ridyen]

Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:

ElephantonRU wrote:

PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state.

No other limitations whatsoever, everything as it is today.

I like this idea. Especially because it voids the mass objection "But, we're just locked so we can fight each other!".However, as far as I know, there is no exp gain currently for killing gray mobs so this really isn't going discourage ganking of newbs. Instead it will encourage it further because they'll still receive faction and no exp gain.I still believe that messing with level locking and/or zone restrictions is not the answer. In my opinion, its the Fame system that needs an overhaul. Penalize those that attack gray & green people with a negative ding to their infamy. Killing a blue offers little or no gain to fame. Killing white, yellow orange & reds gains fame incrementally upwards. Killing in a group distributes the fame gain proportionately to the size of the group. E.g. kill a blue solo with a group of 2 and the fame is split equally. Kill a blue with a group of 3 and each member only receives a 1/3 of the fame.Been brought up before and only poo'd on by the newb harvesters. Go figure.

Note his first sentence: "PVP kills always give combat XP, no matter of your combat XP lock state."  I see nothing in this statement that suggests that you would not get combat XP from killing greys.   Unless they are exile you can't hit greys in the first place.    There may however be some issues with how to handle players getting attacked by a group of greys.  I'm not sure the solo player should be penalized for fighting back and perhaps taking a couple of the greys with him.  Perhaps the rule would only apply to those initiating the attack. 

How about preventing you from initiating a PVP attack with combat XP turn off?  If you are attacked and win you get the faction but no XP if you have your combat XP turned off.  If you join a group the whole group must have combat XP on or off to prevent groups from exploiting it. 

[Valdar]

Crimson Lord wrote:

Whats next soe gonna force everyone to go to t7 where u can deal with pvpers that got all raid gear and [I cannot control my vocabulary] near impossible to kill most of the time?

So you admit that you suck at this game and can't compete in T7 so you want to gank players leveling up with your locked toon?Thank you for clarifying what you want from this game!

[Ridyen]

Outkasted2006 wrote:

Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA.

 No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period.

 1.) What it promotes it bad enough.

 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.

For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.

But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA.

 Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.

First of all let me state that I (As do a lot of us) have a level 70 that's pretty much mastered out and has some decent (Fabled) KOS gear and a level locked 43 thats pretty much mastered out but whose gear is ok but not the best.  I've played both sides of this issue.  I stopped playing my level 70 because I found that getting constantly ganked by groups waiting at cloud landing sites in KOS was simply no fun.  Gear and AA don't mean a thing when you are constanly jumped by gank groups or raiding guilds.  Like I said my lvl 70 has pretty good gear but the best gear can only be obtained by raiding, raiding and more raiding.  Some of us just don't like raiding 6 days a week so we can have a50/50 chance of winning a solo pvp fight on the 7th day.

For the past year I have had more fun with my locked level 43 than I ever had just level grinding to get to 70.  Yes I killed anything I could for faction but I certainly didn't go out of my way to hunt them.  More often that not it is the group of grey destroyers trying to kill me (and they do). 

If the AA is your issue then I would advocate eliminateing all AA until lvl 70.  Give it as a reward to those who rushed up to level 70 and have nothing left to do besides raid or wait at for a lvl 60 to pounce on.  Personally I am enjoing the questing and the PVP that comes with it. 

As for buying/selling of masters at t2 I'm not sure of your issue there.  Due to level lockers there are a ton of masters on the market and many are dirt cheap - only 15-20 gold.  My level 70 never had masters in the lower tiers because they were so expensive and I knew that I would simply be growing out of them in 10 levels.  Let's talk the price of some masters in the higher tiers.  As I said above my lvl 70 is "pretty much mastered" but not entirely.  Folks wanting 50-100pp for lvl 60-70 masters is much more insane. 

[Outkasted2006]

Ridyen65 wrote:

Outkasted2006 wrote:

Being that i have a 70/100 (As do a lot of us) , I think it's a joke lower levels in pvp can lock lvls, twink out, put all their resources into that tier, and actually be rewarded for it to, they are given AA.

 No offense, but you should not get AA in spot of XP if your not max level. Period.

 1.) What it promotes it bad enough.

 2.) Yes it does create a unfair enviroment. (Don't say "well you can do it yourself so don't cry about it" Not everyone wants to spend their life in t2-t4) This level locking has promoted a lot of negative issues, and promoting little to nothing positive.

For one ,because of it, T5 and ESPECIALLY T6 are virtually dead, and finding a decent group is tough.

But my biggest point to all this, is if you chose to shut off your Combat XP, you shouldn't get AA anyways. Being that when your lvl 70 and kill anything what do you get.. AA. If your combat is shut off you definitely shouldn't be rewarded with AA.

 Please just do away with level locking. For one, it makes everything cost way to much. Sorry folks, watching the buying and selling of t2 masters for 1-4 plat makes me sick.

First of all let me state that I (As do a lot of us) have a level 70 that's pretty much mastered out and has some decent (Fabled) KOS gear and a level locked 43 thats pretty much mastered out but whose gear is ok but not the best.  I've played both sides of this issue.  I stopped playing my level 70 because I found that getting constantly ganked by groups waiting at cloud landing sites in KOS was simply no fun.  Gear and AA don't mean a thing when you are constanly jumped by gank groups or raiding guilds.  Like I said my lvl 70 has pretty good gear but the best gear can only be obtained by raiding, raiding and more raiding.  Some of us just don't like raiding 6 days a week so we can have a50/50 chance of winning a solo pvp fight on the 7th day.

For the past year I have had more fun with my locked level 43 than I ever had just level grinding to get to 70.  Yes I killed anything I could for faction but I certainly didn't go out of my way to hunt them.  More often that not it is the group of grey destroyers trying to kill me (and they do). 

If the AA is your issue then I would advocate eliminateing all AA until lvl 70.  Give it as a reward to those who rushed up to level 70 and have nothing left to do besides raid or wait at for a lvl 60 to pounce on.  Personally I am enjoing the questing and the PVP that comes with it.  

As for buying/selling of masters at t2 I'm not sure of your issue there.  Due to level lockers there are a ton of masters on the market and many are dirt cheap - only 15-20 gold.  My level 70 never had masters in the lower tiers because they were so expensive and I knew that I would simply be growing out of them in 10 levels.  Let's talk the price of some masters in the higher tiers.  As I said above my lvl 70 is "pretty much mastered" but not entirely.  Folks wanting 50-100pp for lvl 60-70 masters is much more insane. 

   It's not about raiding, it's about making the game a lot more even.  Ill get back to all the pvp stuff in a sec, but as far as those masters? yeah, thats what my guardian paid till T4 now they are all a 2-5 plat. My buddies warden though? from lvl 10 up masters have been expensive. Yes , there has been like 3 lvls where his masters were relatively cheap. but outside of that. Nada, that's the the deal. And I've seen the same case with other classes. Certain classes are cheaper then others for the most part.

The reply to your AA response , Dude, you enjoy questing? That's great and you should get AA for it, but you shouldnt get the pvp AA. Not to mention the childish arguement of "well if I can't get AS MUCH of it as I would like now, then I don't want it at all" arguement is just plain stupid. No , AA should remain as is, minus the fact if you turn off your XP you do NOT get AA for combat XP simple as that. N

Now the T7 masters that have and go for that price, dude, I have sold a ton of those. And at the time they were worth it, There were NO , I mean ZERO, upgrades to these spells. And  until, RoK comes out you can't upgrade them. And some of them still don't HAVE a upgrade. Having your spells mastered is a distinct advantage in raiding, and YES in PVP.  You know their is raid gear in every tier, why not take away the lvl locking crap, have more T7 (now Tand keep the flow of the game going, and that way the game is in a nice ordered progression unlike it is right now.