EQ2 must be the only mmo when you level up you get weaker

[Metis]

I noticed that i know i'm not crazy and it has to do with skill cap being increased by 5 points.   So basicly i'm level X and i'm killing mobs same level as me, i get a resist on occasion, nothing major.  Now i level up and i'm still killing the same mobs (now 1 level below me) and i get resist after resist after resist, until my skills are capped again.   I just find stupid that you actually get weaker as you level up.

[liveja]

Metisha wrote:

I just find stupid that you actually get weaker as you level up.

Well, actually, I've never felt that I do get weaker as I level up.

[Zabom]

Metisha wrote:

I noticed that i know i'm not crazy and it has to do with skill cap being increased by 5 points.   So basicly i'm level X and i'm killing mobs same level as me, i get a resist on occasion, nothing major.  Now i level up and i'm still killing the same mobs (now 1 level below me) and i get resist after resist after resist, until my skills are capped again.   I just find stupid that you actually get weaker as you level up.

I have run into times that I felt this way too. But then I looked at the situation and realized why. It usually happens right after I get a spell upgrade when I gain a lvl. I delete the older version from my hotkeys and replace it with the new one. And thats the last I think about it. Even if I immediatly go buy an adept or even a master, I have a tendancy to forget that the newer version of the spell requires a higher skill to cast. You, Like myself,  might find it easier to use the older version of a spell untill you cap the casting skill again. 

[othera1]

Well at lvl 1 i died to 15 ^^^'s now at lvl 70 i can pretty much 1 hit KO them so uhh... yea

[retro_guy]

Metisha wrote:

I noticed that i know i'm not crazy and it has to do with skill cap being increased by 5 points.   So basicly i'm level X and i'm killing mobs same level as me, i get a resist on occasion, nothing major.  Now i level up and i'm still killing the same mobs (now 1 level below me) and i get resist after resist after resist, until my skills are capped again.   I just find stupid that you actually get weaker as you level up.

Yes, it's been acknowledged that the mechanic is a little weird, but honesty it's very quick to cap thise skills again, what does it take, a few minutes?I've never felt that I get weaked as I level up, in fact, often I strive to get another level, then am able to more easily take down the name I'm trying to master.

[Wildmage]

Its pretty much post 20 a short term loss, long term gain.  When you first level if you right then and there start fighting mobs 1 level higher than what ever you were fighting you might notice some weakness but your relevant skills will go up quick enough that problem stops.

[LordPazuzu]

That's generally because when you level and get an ability or spell upgrade, the new one takes a higher level of skill to cast than the old one.  You don't cast the new one as effectively as you did the old one until you skill up a bit. 

[Lornick]

I completely fail to see the logic of the OP.

[Maroger]

Metisha wrote:

I noticed that i know i'm not crazy and it has to do with skill cap being increased by 5 points.   So basicly i'm level X and i'm killing mobs same level as me, i get a resist on occasion, nothing major.  Now i level up and i'm still killing the same mobs (now 1 level below me) and i get resist after resist after resist, until my skills are capped again.   I just find stupid that you actually get weaker as you level up.

This is very true if you are coercer - the higher we get the more the nerfs come roling in and the harder they bite.

[interstellarmatter]

It's a tough balance.  In a game like Ultima Online, everything is skill based.  So, it's pretty simple concept, higher skill = better able to kill.  In EQ2, you have levels + skill which complicates the combat mechanics.  I remember in EQ1 that skill made a huge difference.  A warrior power leveled to 50 would be dropped by a lvl 50 mob his first tanking job.  This was because his skills didn't keep up.  Here, it's not as extreme but skill does play an important role. 

Don't think of leveling as growing more powerful, but opening the potential for you to grow stronger.

[UlteriorModem]

I can almost see the logic of a new higher level spell or ability being more difficult to cast sucessfully but whats up with avoidance ?

Why does my avoidance get reduced untill I get beat up a bit ??

The same mob I was able to just destroy at level 15 is suddenly a real challange at 16 ? at least for a while, then after my avoidance gets back up its not even worth wasting time on them they are so easy to kill. I prefer a bit of challange. Im happiest when I win a big fight with just a few HP left or even lose now and then.

[Allastor]

It is very noticeable at low levels because you don't spent much time with your skills capped because you level almost as fast as you cap your skills in some cases.After about 40 or so the time you are not skill capped is so negligable compared to the time it takes to level that it is almost a non issue. And the % of impairment due to not having your skills maxed becomes less as you level, since skill 10 out of 15 possible makes it 33% harder, but 95 out of 100 possible is just 5% harder against the same mobs.But you are right, at the moment you level up your ability to hit, and defend against the same mobs you were just fighting is less. The bright side is that it gets better.

[UlteriorModem]

Allastor@Befallen wrote:

But you are right, at the moment you level up your ability to hit, and defend against the same mobs you were just fighting is less. The bright side is that it gets better.

Maybe its just a hang over from celebrating your advancement.

[joshshift]

the OP is correct i have noticed this on my coercer for a while.

[Nelin]

From the Dirge forums - Daro's Sorrowful Dirge level 44.

Pick:  Daro's for the long-term.  The Master II of this spell is within a percent or two as effective as the T7 - yep, you heard right - the T7 version, while using significantly less power.

[liveja]

UlteriorModem wrote:

The same mob I was able to just destroy at level 15 is suddenly a real challange at 16 ?

I've never noticed that to be the case.

What I have noticed is that when I'm below level 10, a white con mob is easy as pie, but above 10th level, a white con is a little more dangerous. But the same mob, once it cons blue, is much less difficult to kill.

A perfect example is the young kodiaks in DLW. When they're white cons, they're tough; once they turn blue, they're cake easy. That, to me, is evidence of getting STRONGER as you level up, not weaker.

[Giland]

The reason some numbers can appear lower after leveling is they are always compared to the mobs of your level.So if you are lvl 15 and your avoidance is showing say 30%, you ding 16, and your avoidance is now 29%, is because before, you skill, stats, and armor were being compared to lvl 15 mobs. Now, they are being compared to lvl 16 mobs and you are found lacking. Against lvl 15 mobs, the stats would still be the same, and get better as you raise the skill, but the only number you can see is against mobs your same level. Raising your avoidance back to max would bring you back to the 30% you had before. Better armor now available to you can raise it even higher.

[Beldin_]

There are some things that result from the 14 level spell cycle and also from the way how armor gets weaker with every level.

Take for example a fury that only has a limited number of spells, the biggest is strike of thunder that you get with 22 i think. When you get it at 22 the 1000 damage or whatever it does is really a big hit against level 22 mobs. However at 31 it still is you main spell, and the mobs have much more HPs, so if you don't have increased your INT it looks weak against the actual mobs.

Also look at effective mitigation, if you get a set of mastercrafted plate for example at 22 for your tank you will have around 50%, at 31 it is dropped down to around 40%.

[Leatherneck]

Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:

UlteriorModem wrote:

The same mob I was able to just destroy at level 15 is suddenly a real challange at 16 ?

I've never noticed that to be the case.

What I have noticed is that when I'm below level 10, a white con mob is easy as pie, but above 10th level, a white con is a little more dangerous. But the same mob, once it cons blue, is much less difficult to kill.

A perfect example is the young kodiaks in DLW. When they're white cons, they're tough; once they turn blue, they're cake easy. That, to me, is evidence of getting STRONGER as you level up, not weaker.

Absolutely right on.  And that's not unique to EQ2.  Look at EQ1.  Pretty much any class at, say level 5 can slap down a yellow.  Try that mess at 65 and it's a different story.  Even classes that can solo well can have it all fall apart with one resisted spell.

The spread in relative power (solo vs green/blue/white/yellow/orange/red) isn't nearly as pronounced in EQ2, but it's still there.

There are some games where that doesn't happen, CoH/CoV is one example, but the loss of personal power vs even level mobs as you gain levels isn'tunique to EQ2.

[Effie]

LordPazuzu wrote:

That's generally because when you level and get an ability or spell upgrade, the new one takes a higher level of skill to cast than the old one.  You don't cast the new one as effectively as you did the old one until you skill up a bit. 

The above comment is completely inaccurate.

[UlteriorModem]

All I know is that when my Swashbuckler went from 15 to 16 'her' avoidance dropped from 33% to around 16%.

Thats a considerable difference and 'she' had better watch her step at least for the first 1/3 of the way to 17.

[Beldin_]

UlteriorModem wrote:

All I know is that when my Swashbuckler went from 15 to 16 'her' avoidance dropped from 33% to around 16%.

Thats a considerable difference and 'she' had better watch her step at least for the first 1/3 of the way to 17.

There are 2 things here, first your avoidance didn't really drop, it just shows now your avoidance compared to a level 16 mob, and before it was compared to a 15 mob.

The other thing is, that especially scouts, often have very low parry and defense skill. Even since i mostly solo, my swash and briga were 30+ when they finally had maxed these skill, and at low level there avoidance was often 0% because the skills were so low.

[Belaythien]

I don't know if this has been changed, but quite some time ago your spells would actually do less damage once you leveled up. The weird game mechanic expects you to stay around the cap of your damage stat (int for example). If you leveled up, this cap is raised and you are further away from it, thus loosing damage done by spells. No idea if this is still the case, though.

[Effie]

Belaythien wrote:

I don't know if this has been changed, but quite some time ago your spells would actually do less damage once you leveled up. The weird game mechanic expects you to stay around the cap of your damage stat (int for example). If you leveled up, this cap is raised and you are further away from it, thus loosing damage done by spells. No idea if this is still the case, though.

That bonehead game mechanic was changed ages ago.

[AtrumPan]

Nelinia wrote:

From the Dirge forums - Daro's Sorrowful Dirge level 44.

Pick:  Daro's for the long-term.  The Master II of this spell is within a percent or two as effective as the T7 - yep, you heard right - the T7 version, while using significantly less power.

I have a lvl 36 (I think) Master II spell that is better than the Adept I of the lvl 60 version XD

That's Everburning XXXXXXXX for monk btw :p