Rares definitely broken (or changed)

ZeyGnome · 08-02-2007, 09:25 PM

I heard rumours on the Live servers that there was an excessive amount of rares coming into the system, so I did a test (on Test, of course SMILEY )

I set a kitchen timer for one hour and went to Antonica and just harvested. This is the results when the timer dinged:

1 Severed Bone 2 Rough Coral 2 Glowing Items 3 Cured Pelt 4 Sisal Roots 5 Silver Clusters 8 Blackened Iron Clusters

That's 23 rares and 2 imbues in exactly one hour. That's a bit much don't you think? (Not that I mind getting rares for a change, but they're not so rare now)

I am a 350 in all harvesting though, so that might have helped, but it is still a bit much.

On a side note, I noticed that when there were more root nodes added to the lands, the amount of roots harvested off of the nodes has dropped considerably. It's kind of pointless to increase the nodes to help with the lack of roots and then lower the returns. If that's the case, go back to the old way, it was more efficient.

EtoilePirate · 08-02-2007, 11:46 PM

But I totally could not have picked a better time to look for rares to rehab my Freeport house. SMILEY

Now if the luck would extend to moonstones for my Fury...

Aela@Test · 08-02-2007, 11:46 PM

Yesterday in TT I got 3 moonstones and 2 alycria in about 15-20 mins. I thought i was just lucky. However now you mention it...

Bre · 08-03-2007, 04:38 AM

Our new TS Dev addressed it here. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...29&#4246250

"Heya folks, since I'm off at fan faire happening this weekend, I will take a closer look next week when I'm back. I did check up on a number of people who reported high rare rates before I left (and yes, if we know your name and server we can see everything you harvested), not to mention doing a lot of harvesting myself, and so far I haven't seen anything hugely abnormal. For example, sure, 10 rares in a night sounds like a lot, but if the person posting that harvested 2000 things in that session, that's still only 0.5%, which doesn't sound quite as big when you put it in perspective. It can be hard to distinguish between real changes and the RNG being moody. A classic example of this: Aurumn@Unrest wrote:

Harvested last night for about an hour in EL and came back with about 5 rares (a pelt, 3 roots and a soft metal) and a bout 8 imbue items. The night before (monday) I harvested for about 1.5 hours in TS and EL with about 6 rares (2 steel, 1 stone, 2 root, and a soft metal) and about 10 imbue items.

Monday was BEFORE the Game Update ... so this particular harvester in fact doesn't seem to be seeing any change between the before and after. What should have happened with this GU in regards to harvesting:

a greater chance of loam/ore, and metal/gem rares. Previously, those 2-rare nodes were giving 1 rare per X amount of time, like other nodes. This actually means that compared to a 1-rare node like roots, you had only half as much chance of getting a particular rare from a 2-rare node. The node was dropping rares at the same rate, but since your chances were divided between two different rares, they were less common. So, the rate of rares from 2-rare nodes was bumped up a bit to compensate for this.
if you get a single item harvest from a trapping node, you have twice the chance of it being a pelt than a meat. For 3 and 5 item harvests they're equal chances (which means more meats overall). This was intended to give pelts a small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate.
rare roots will be more common of course, since they are now dropping from shrubs. When you consider how many shrubs you previously would harvest that could give you no rare, that's a significant portion of harvesting time that simply couldn't drop a rare. So, yes, rare roots would be more plentiful now and just the fact that the shrubs now have a rare would make the overall rare drop rate go up per harvesting session (if you're clearing everything), even if the % chance of getting a rare had actually gone down (it didn't, but just an example).
imbue stuff got a bit less common. Really, people seem to have stockpiles of the stuff. I know I still have the pre-revision extracts in my bank that I've never used and I regularly destroy the imbue harvests. It's still not rare rare, but it's just a little bit less common. So, if you're seeing a higher % of rares to imbues, that may be as much because of the added roots + fewer imbues, than it is actually most rares being more common.
the higher-end harvesting results are a bit more accessible to people now than they were before. As dedicated harvesters are probably aware, as your harvesting skill increases, you have a higher chance of getting a rare. With this update the skill requirements were lowered a little so that you now have a chance (a small one) of getting the better results before you actually outlevel the tier you're harvesting in (previously you had to entirely outlevel the tier by quite a lot before you could even have a 1% chance of getting the best rare chances -- which seemed to be a bit unfair to people actually crafting in that tier). So, again, this doesn't necessarily make rares more common than they were before but it does mean harvesters of a lower level are getting slightly better results than they were before.

Anyway, that's the summary. I'll see y'all next week, and if you're coming to the fan faire, stop by and say hello! I'll be hanging out in the Legends Lounge from 3-4 on Friday, and probably various other times too. And if you're not coming to the fan faire, enjoy the new furniture and stay out of trouble! SMILEY "

And yes, she doth rock hard and out loud.

Brega.

Kuulei · 08-15-2007, 02:56 AM

Findings after patch on 08/14/2007 ~ SOEBuild=4298L

exactly 3 hours of harvesting in Enchanted Lands, 70 provisioner with maxed skills 350/350

With overclocked Tinkered tools (level 66) skills are: Mining 370/370, Foresting, Gathering, Trapping and Fishing are 360/360.

Rares

Oak root (2): Both rare roots gotten from velvety root nodes and none from mystical natural garden, quantities as follows; Tussah Roots = 399, Grean tea = 153, Wild apple = 157, Cucumber = 124. Everfrost Ice Bean = 131. Total gathered from bushes = 565 items, Total roots = 399, grand Total = 964, with only 2 Oak Roots obtained from the Velvety Root nodes, zero from bushes. This seems worse than ever!

Severed Oak (2) and Glimmering Material (1): Foresting of Wretched Arbor yeilded 2 Severed Oak rares and 1 Glimmering Material, total forested of the Severed Briarwood: 528

Ductile Loam (1) and Feysteel Cluster (2) and Glimmering Material (1): Mining the Residual Ore was a bit harder to find, compared to all the other nodes. Totals: Feyiron Cluster = 227, Supple Loam = 251, Glimmering Material = 1, Ductile Loam = 1, Feysteel Cluster = 2. This seemed lower than pre-patch and despite the low numbers of Ore nodes, I think it could be better.

Ruthenium Cluster (4) and Rough Opal (2): This seemed a bit better, less than pre 08/14/07 patch but higher than before the increases were put in last month. Mining the Rhythmic Stone yielded: Velium Cluster = 271. Rough Opaline = 281, Ruthenium Cluster = 4, Rough Opal = 2

Engraved Leather Pelt (4) and Glimmering Material (1): Trapping the Animal Dens I did see more pelts than meats which may account for the number of rares. Etched Leather Pelts = 453, Griffon Meat = 96. Bear Meat = 101, Glimmering Material = 1, Engraved Leather Pelt = 4

Conclusion: Total gathered items = 3242, total rares: 17, total materials (glimmering): 3

Sunrayn · 08-15-2007, 11:58 AM

Actually, the numbers from T2 and T4 sound about right..You *should* be getting rares by the pile when you are as much as 260 points over the 'real' max for that zone.

To Aela. Your numbers really dont sound that off. Feather spent an hour on Fear Tainted last night harvesting and got a grand total of *one* rough moonstone with 350 skill.

Some people for some obscure reason just seem to have better luck getting rares.

Garinof, at 350 skill, has *never* harvested an acrylia but, I have gotten a bunch of moonstone.

Kethaera · 08-15-2007, 02:25 PM

I've often wondered if characters don't have some kind of hidden skill number that affects their rolls. I have two level 70/70 characters, both with max harvesting and only woodworker harvesting tools. Lei consistently pulls more rares than Keth, and I've spent many many hours harvesting with both. So if I harvested only with Lei, I would think rare drops were fair, and if I harvested only with Keth, I would think they were low. I must admit, lately since I've realized this, I take Lei harvesting far more often than Keth...wouldn't you?

Kwoung · 08-15-2007, 05:10 PM

A dev would have to confirm, but the rate you can harvest rares also depends on if you are in the zone the rares are "hot" in at that moment. My understanding is that at any given time, only one of the zones for a given tier is the "hot" zone, and it has an increased drop rate, the rest of that tiers zones have the default crummy drop rate.

I have found that generally, if you are in the zone in which you can harvest a "10", you are in the hot zone and it is good to stay harvesting until the rares migrate away to another zone. The difference most see with one character vs another in harvesting is not so much a difference in the character, but your luck at which zone you choose to harvest that day and whether it was the hot spot.

I generally give a zone 30 mins, if I have not gotten a "10" by then, I move on because I know at best, I will get one rare per hour or two. If I do get a "10", I stick around and will generally get a rare per 30 min.

08-02-2007, 09:25 PM	#1
ZeyGnome Tester Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 267	I heard rumours on the Live servers that there was an excessive amount of rares coming into the system, so I did a test (on Test, of course ) I set a kitchen timer for one hour and went to Antonica and just harvested. This is the results when the timer dinged: 1 Severed Bone 2 Rough Coral 2 Glowing Items 3 Cured Pelt 4 Sisal Roots 5 Silver Clusters 8 Blackened Iron Clusters That's 23 rares and 2 imbues in exactly one hour. That's a bit much don't you think? (Not that I mind getting rares for a change, but they're not so rare now) I am a 350 in all harvesting though, so that might have helped, but it is still a bit much. On a side note, I noticed that when there were more root nodes added to the lands, the amount of roots harvested off of the nodes has dropped considerably. It's kind of pointless to increase the nodes to help with the lack of roots and then lower the returns. If that's the case, go back to the old way, it was more efficient. __________________

08-02-2007, 11:46 PM	#2
EtoilePirate Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,258	But I totally could not have picked a better time to look for rares to rehab my Freeport house. Now if the luck would extend to moonstones for my Fury... __________________ Kella The Mighty Pirate, Assassin & Tailor Nimari, Fury-at-Large Test Server

08-15-2007, 02:56 AM	#5
Kuulei Tester Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 468	Findings after patch on 08/14/2007 ~ SOEBuild=4298L exactly 3 hours of harvesting in Enchanted Lands, 70 provisioner with maxed skills 350/350 With overclocked Tinkered tools (level 66) skills are: Mining 370/370, Foresting, Gathering, Trapping and Fishing are 360/360. Rares Oak root (2): Both rare roots gotten from velvety root nodes and none from mystical natural garden, quantities as follows; Tussah Roots = 399, Grean tea = 153, Wild apple = 157, Cucumber = 124. Everfrost Ice Bean = 131. Total gathered from bushes = 565 items, Total roots = 399, grand Total = 964, with only 2 Oak Roots obtained from the Velvety Root nodes, zero from bushes. This seems worse than ever! Severed Oak (2) and Glimmering Material (1): Foresting of Wretched Arbor yeilded 2 Severed Oak rares and 1 Glimmering Material, total forested of the Severed Briarwood: 528 Ductile Loam (1) and Feysteel Cluster (2) and Glimmering Material (1): Mining the Residual Ore was a bit harder to find, compared to all the other nodes. Totals: Feyiron Cluster = 227, Supple Loam = 251, Glimmering Material = 1, Ductile Loam = 1, Feysteel Cluster = 2. This seemed lower than pre-patch and despite the low numbers of Ore nodes, I think it could be better. Ruthenium Cluster (4) and Rough Opal (2): This seemed a bit better, less than pre 08/14/07 patch but higher than before the increases were put in last month. Mining the Rhythmic Stone yielded: Velium Cluster = 271. Rough Opaline = 281, Ruthenium Cluster = 4, Rough Opal = 2 Engraved Leather Pelt (4) and Glimmering Material (1): Trapping the Animal Dens I did see more pelts than meats which may account for the number of rares. Etched Leather Pelts = 453, Griffon Meat = 96. Bear Meat = 101, Glimmering Material = 1, Engraved Leather Pelt = 4 Conclusion: Total gathered items = 3242, total rares: 17, total materials (glimmering): 3 __________________ Kuulei ~ Warden of Test

08-15-2007, 02:25 PM	#7
Kethaera Tester Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 460	I've often wondered if characters don't have some kind of hidden skill number that affects their rolls. I have two level 70/70 characters, both with max harvesting and only woodworker harvesting tools. Lei consistently pulls more rares than Keth, and I've spent many many hours harvesting with both. So if I harvested only with Lei, I would think rare drops were fair, and if I harvested only with Keth, I would think they were low. I must admit, lately since I've realized this, I take Lei harvesting far more often than Keth...wouldn't you? __________________

08-15-2007, 05:10 PM	#8
Kwoung Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 710	A dev would have to confirm, but the rate you can harvest rares also depends on if you are in the zone the rares are "hot" in at that moment. My understanding is that at any given time, only one of the zones for a given tier is the "hot" zone, and it has an increased drop rate, the rest of that tiers zones have the default crummy drop rate. I have found that generally, if you are in the zone in which you can harvest a "10", you are in the hot zone and it is good to stay harvesting until the rares migrate away to another zone. The difference most see with one character vs another in harvesting is not so much a difference in the character, but your luck at which zone you choose to harvest that day and whether it was the hot spot. I generally give a zone 30 mins, if I have not gotten a "10" by then, I move on because I know at best, I will get one rare per hour or two. If I do get a "10", I stick around and will generally get a rare per 30 min. __________________ Everquest II Test Server Community

08-02-2007, 11:46 PM	#3
Aela@Test Tester Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 171	Yesterday in TT I got 3 moonstones and 2 alycria in about 15-20 mins. I thought i was just lucky. However now you mention it...

08-03-2007, 04:38 AM	#4
Bre General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 366	Our new TS Dev addressed it here. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...29&#4246250 "Heya folks, since I'm off at fan faire happening this weekend, I will take a closer look next week when I'm back. I did check up on a number of people who reported high rare rates before I left (and yes, if we know your name and server we can see everything you harvested), not to mention doing a lot of harvesting myself, and so far I haven't seen anything hugely abnormal. For example, sure, 10 rares in a night sounds like a lot, but if the person posting that harvested 2000 things in that session, that's still only 0.5%, which doesn't sound quite as big when you put it in perspective. It can be hard to distinguish between real changes and the RNG being moody. A classic example of this: Aurumn@Unrest wrote: Harvested last night for about an hour in EL and came back with about 5 rares (a pelt, 3 roots and a soft metal) and a bout 8 imbue items. The night before (monday) I harvested for about 1.5 hours in TS and EL with about 6 rares (2 steel, 1 stone, 2 root, and a soft metal) and about 10 imbue items. Monday was BEFORE the Game Update ... so this particular harvester in fact doesn't seem to be seeing any change between the before and after. What should have happened with this GU in regards to harvesting: a greater chance of loam/ore, and metal/gem rares. Previously, those 2-rare nodes were giving 1 rare per X amount of time, like other nodes. This actually means that compared to a 1-rare node like roots, you had only half as much chance of getting a particular rare from a 2-rare node. The node was dropping rares at the same rate, but since your chances were divided between two different rares, they were less common. So, the rate of rares from 2-rare nodes was bumped up a bit to compensate for this. if you get a single item harvest from a trapping node, you have twice the chance of it being a pelt than a meat. For 3 and 5 item harvests they're equal chances (which means more meats overall). This was intended to give pelts a small but not overwhelming boost in drop rate. rare roots will be more common of course, since they are now dropping from shrubs. When you consider how many shrubs you previously would harvest that could give you no rare, that's a significant portion of harvesting time that simply couldn't drop a rare. So, yes, rare roots would be more plentiful now and just the fact that the shrubs now have a rare would make the overall rare drop rate go up per harvesting session (if you're clearing everything), even if the % chance of getting a rare had actually gone down (it didn't, but just an example). imbue stuff got a bit less common. Really, people seem to have stockpiles of the stuff. I know I still have the pre-revision extracts in my bank that I've never used and I regularly destroy the imbue harvests. It's still not rare rare, but it's just a little bit less common. So, if you're seeing a higher % of rares to imbues, that may be as much because of the added roots + fewer imbues, than it is actually most rares being more common. the higher-end harvesting results are a bit more accessible to people now than they were before. As dedicated harvesters are probably aware, as your harvesting skill increases, you have a higher chance of getting a rare. With this update the skill requirements were lowered a little so that you now have a chance (a small one) of getting the better results before you actually outlevel the tier you're harvesting in (previously you had to entirely outlevel the tier by quite a lot before you could even have a 1% chance of getting the best rare chances -- which seemed to be a bit unfair to people actually crafting in that tier). So, again, this doesn't necessarily make rares more common than they were before but it does mean harvesters of a lower level are getting slightly better results than they were before. Anyway, that's the summary. I'll see y'all next week, and if you're coming to the fan faire, stop by and say hello! I'll be hanging out in the Legends Lounge from 3-4 on Friday, and probably various other times too. And if you're not coming to the fan faire, enjoy the new furniture and stay out of trouble! " And yes, she doth rock hard and out loud. Brega.

08-15-2007, 11:58 AM	#6
Sunrayn Tester Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 498	Actually, the numbers from T2 and T4 sound about right..You should be getting rares by the pile when you are as much as 260 points over the 'real' max for that zone. To Aela. Your numbers really dont sound that off. Feather spent an hour on Fear Tainted last night harvesting and got a grand total of one rough moonstone with 350 skill. Some people for some obscure reason just seem to have better luck getting rares. Garinof, at 350 skill, has never harvested an acrylia but, I have gotten a bunch of moonstone.