New 2:1 MANASHIELD and reduced PVP damage

[Elephanton]

Because we still did not get any response to this post and it got lost deep in the huge whine thread, I thought this issue deserves its own topic.

Feel free to discuss but please stay on topic.

Thanks!

ElephantonRU wrote:

Manashield ratio impoved to 2:1 OMG OMG OMG

Take this warlock

HP 6450 Mana 6800 Miti 40%+

With new manashield, you need

(6450+6800x2) х 1.66 = 33K pure damage to kill this [I cannot control my vocabulary]

IS THIS EVEN THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE FOR ANY CLASS IN THE GAME TO PULL 33K+ OF PURE PVP DAMAGE AFTER DPS NERF?

Note that you only have a few seconds to dish out 33K of damage, because with fixed resists warlock needs just a few seconds to kill you.

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS GAME'S DESIGN????????????????????????

[Legiax]

erm.... warriors auto attack clothies between 100-600, and double attack. Stuns + Stifles, and a lot of CA's and they are dead. Rangers will hit even harder, and if the dual wield changes go through, the damage will be even harder.

You cant kill a caster in 2 hits anymore, and you mean because they have spent TWENTY FOUR AA points to get an ability that is INTENDED to help them live. In return for taking this AA line, the sorcerer loses out on possibly taking STR / AGI / WIS, which majorly reduces overall DPS.

I think its fine.

[Hon]

Narl@Nagafen wrote:

erm.... warriors auto attack clothies between 100-600, and double attack. Stuns + Stifles, and a lot of CA's and they are dead. Rangers will hit even harder, and if the dual wield changes go through, the damage will be even harder.

You cant kill a caster in 2 hits anymore, and you mean because they have spent TWENTY FOUR AA points to get an ability that is INTENDED to help them live. In return for taking this AA line, the sorcerer loses out on possibly taking STR / AGI / WIS, which majorly reduces overall DPS.

I think its fine.

Of course you do.. after reading your comments its painfully clear you are bias. 

[Legiax]

How the hell am i bias? I want Ice Comet / Nova reduced inline with everything else, I said in a previous post I dont agree with the STA line mitigation increase, but I DO think Manashield needed tweaking, as it was a great way to get your power taken in 1 hit before this change.

I simply do not like the fact because we cant be 2 shotted anymore, everyone and their uncle is moaning. WTB more Sorcerers on these forums, theres not enough. I will put money on the care bears winning, as 90% of them are scouts.

[Spag]

First of all, its only going to be 33k if:

1. they use no power
2. they engage manashield at 1%HP
3. you cant effectively keep them from casting manashield
4. you cant figure out how to debuff it

No sorc is going to cast manashield at the beginning of the fight, as that will leave them full health 0 power.  Maybe instead of complaining here because you can no longer burn through both their health and their manashield like everyone could do previously, maybe just maybe, you could try to adapt and learn new ways to overcome.

Wizzies and Warlocks are not free status and tokens anymore, get used to it.

[The_Real_Ohno]

Even though it seems high, it really isnt to big of a deal when u can debuff it or just snare and run for 30 secs.  Im kind of happy some casters are gettin a bone, about time imo.

[Spag]

Yeah, why does everyone think they have to strong arm their way through things?

Work smarter not harder.

[Scatimus]

i like the new manashield changes.  being a wizzy there was nothing that pisses me of more than being killed in 4 seconds, lol.  now manybe i will be able to throw a spell before i hit the ground.  maybe now it will take 7 seconds to kill me.  then again, with the way they are reducing ice nove and fusion, my big hits wont hit for that much.  i havent checked out the test server and dont know exactly what they are doing with it, because it changes so often on test, but i would assume that with the resists being "fixed" that it should cut my ice nove from a max hit of around 4500 (though it rarely if ever hits that hard without a crit) to 2500.  maybe wizzys have a chance now, probably not, but others are going to learn how to actually fight instead of gank now.  thats just my opinion though.  i could be wrong.

[Legiax]

/huggle all

Finally some [Removed for Content] support on these forums lol, I held the fort for us all >.<

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Ok, so getting 2:1 mana shield isn't enough for you Narl, you want to have your damage left alone?  ROFLMAO tbh.

[shagr1414]

Spag wrote:

First of all, its only going to be 33k if:

1. they use no power
2. they engage manashield at 1%HP
3. you cant effectively keep them from casting manashield
4. you cant figure out how to debuff it

No sorc is going to cast manashield at the beginning of the fight, as that will leave them full health 0 power.  Maybe instead of complaining here because you can no longer burn through both their health and their manashield like everyone could do previously, maybe just maybe, you could try to adapt and learn new ways to overcome.

Wizzies and Warlocks are not free status and tokens anymore, get used to it.

Yet all other mage classes still get bent over and screw'd =/

[Spag]

shagr1414 wrote:

Yet all other mage classes still get bent over and screw'd =/

Enchanters have excellent control abilities to use as their defense.  With the fix to resist rates our guild illusionist was owning us all on pvp test.  The only way to kill him was to either double team him or kill him before he could react.  Either of these strategies would kill a sorceror just as fast.

As for summoners, their pets can do DPS on the run.  They just need to keep distance and let their pets do the job.

Specifically which mage class were you referring to?

[XeroXs84]

The new Manashield change is awsome for sorceres and gives them finally a decent way to survive. Its still very easy to get past it tho, so theres really no reason to whine about it (and its already mentioned how). Summoners also get a nice tool on the testserver, which is their AA spell that transfers aggro to the fighter pet.. As in test notes stated this ability got now an PVP effect too, which sounds to me like u can let your pet taunt off ppl on command.. sounds very nice tbh.. Alltho i have to admit i couldnt test that yet as i dont have a conj. Anyhow i was able to test the sorcerer changes with the warlock.. and its awsome, and I dont think its overpowered. with the right strategy it can be brought down, and fights usually end up quite close.. thats the was its supposed to be.

[shalom]

As a 63 Swashy who eats most wizzies (70 or otherwise) for lunch...somethings broke.

Even if they land one biggie on me I can almost always finish 'em off.

I've only played a lowbie wiz, so I'm not up on the high end aa's and the proposed changes, but I'm willing to hold off bein chicken little till it actually happens.

If wizzy's do end up being overpowered for a little while, well they prolly deserve their turn.

[Scatimus]

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote:

Ok, so getting 2:1 mana shield isn't enough for you Narl, you want to have your damage left alone?  ROFLMAO tbh.

for some reason no one is understanding what he is saying.  he is saying he is fine with the original changes to all the classes.  but they decided to remove the nerf on some of the high hitting spells or not nerf them as badly, but ice nova and fusions are still getting nerfed big.  he is saying it is not fair for every other class to get some of their damage back on their biggest hitting spells and not the wizzards. 

trying reading the entire post first tbh.

edit: because you're only lvl 25 your opinion doesnt count, HAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vydar]

Muhaha@Nagafen wrote:

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote:

Ok, so getting 2:1 mana shield isn't enough for you Narl, you want to have your damage left alone?  ROFLMAO tbh.

for some reason no one is understanding what he is saying.  he is saying he is fine with the original changes to all the classes.  but they decided to remove the nerf on some of the high hitting spells or not nerf them as badly, but ice nova and fusions are still getting nerfed big.  he is saying it is not fair for every other class to get some of their damage back on their biggest hitting spells and not the wizzards. 

trying reading the entire post first tbh.

edit: because you're only lvl 25 your opinion doesnt count, HAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's had 3 level 70's on another server, so yeah. And it sounds like Ice Comet is getting its damage back, but not Fusion.  Since they said Decap, PT, etc, the etc. would make me think the class specific hard hitting hit is coming back.

[XeroXs84]

well i think fusion is quite class specific too?

[Ozgood]

Well you asked me on the SK forums to come over here and post, so I shall.  What you didn't know is that my main is a Coercer and that I know your pain and then some.

Some more work has to be done to balance, but be patient, they have I believe up to 100 levels in this game, I am sure things will even out.

 That being said, I guess I don't understand rangers coming on these boards complaining about mana shield and HT.  As I said in my other post, rangers can select their targets through tracking, stealth to them, get a farther range than you are and kill you in 1-2 hits from a distance greater than your max range.  If you rush them, they will kill you before you get there, if you run you are dead.

So lets review:

Track, stealth, same DPS, more utility, better mitigation, longer range and mach 6 get away speed.

It is THE class with no risk and all reward.  Whereas casters, are all risk, with a little reward.

Am I saying nerf rangers?  No.

What I am saying is that Manashield is nice, but IMHO, not the solution.  It makes an offensive class, defensive.

All clothies need a Quickcast feature that allows the next spell (not special or AA ability) to automatically hit and do have the damage, duration AFTER resists.

Secondly, if you do tone down damage (even Coercers got "nerfed&quot than up the range of all casters to compensate (they should be the greatest range of all don't you think).

Lastly, many classes can "lock you down" with stuns, knockbacks, snares, stuns again and keep you blurry for a whole fight.  We, on the other hand, give immunities to effects that lock others down.  Again, no balance.   Therefore, make them [Removed for Content] familiars useful and give them to all non-perma pet casters that are non attackable and can stun, knockdown, interrupt someone or something every 6 seconds, for 1.5 seconds or so.

Hell, they should give the shaman one too so they can get their long [Removed for Content] wards off, hehe.

[Pumancat]

 Some of this I posted on other thread, some new.

Ward of Sages is being changed to protect vs non physical only, and with 7 points into my Magi Shielding, WoS, and Mail of Frost,  I'm still getting killed in less than 5 seconds. At 1:1 Manashield was not even worth spending 24 points for (just like manaburn).

 So now on test they made changes to our protections (WoS, MS, MoF ) to [Removed for Content] us even more vs CAs, but tell us they made Manashield double the strength so we have to take it and become dependent on having it, to TRY to survive PVP. Now they reduce the protection from the ability 1.5:1  that THEY are forcing us to take.

So I guess we're once again just sitting tokens, but only for a couple seconds more.

Fix the imbalance between mit and resists first, then talk about reducing damage, cause we never get to cast our heavy hitters anyway. 

Nyarlath - 70 wizard

[Legiax]

yet again, the scouts (aka carebears), win.

Getting used to it now tbh.

[CresentBlade]

Reduced heals for healers and reduced damage for the casters, hmm but scouts not get hitting hard anymore. Oh wait who we kidding nerf everyone but scouts and up the DPS for scouts a little more....umm ya.

[Legiax]

Lets list reasons here why you would play:

Wizard vs Ranger

• Wizard gets Ice Comet! A 4 second cast time nuke which can be interrupted... oh wait, Ranger gets about 3-4 hits all similar which are quicker cast times
• Bwahaha, Fusion mofo's! ......... bleh, ranger has rain of arrows, Rain > Fusion
• Oh yea? I can root j00!, no wait, Ranger can do that too, and can snare for more.
• I have 1 ability I can use whilst moving, pwnt! ... Wait, ranger has a series of melee attacks he can cast whilst moving, amongst others.
• I get wardz! oh.... but they gimped my wardz and they now dont work vs melee. but rangers can usse ward potions to protect vs my uber nukez =/
• Ok ok... I pwn you in 1 aspect, I get a pointy hat, and I bet I die more than you tbh.

Warlock vs Swashbuckler

• Rift ftw... I can cast it and throw you in the air!! Inspiration + Hurricanne + Poisons + Reach > Rift
• I can nuke you from far away, haha, catch me now! Swashy has reach.
• I can control j00 with my root + fear! Swashy has a mezz + snares + knockdowns + stuns
• hmmz.. I can put my uber DoTs on you, and nibble you to death, beat that. /cure potion
• /give up

So myeah, why do we play sorcerers again? I forget.

/discuss

[Elephanton]

As a topic starter I'd like to thank devs for toning down manashield to 1.5:1

This is a good step forward ,although I think that given the overall PVP damage reduction in GU36 old 1:1 manashield would be best.

1.5:1 manashield still gives sorcerors over 25K of hit points, probably no class in the game is capable of delivering this much damage fast enough (as you well know sorcerors do not need a whole lot time to kill anyone now with outright resists fixed).

[Valdar]

Narl@Nagafen wrote:

So myeah, why do we play sorcerers again? I forget.

Let me remind you: Warlocks rock in grp vs grp pvp.

[MikeMatsumo]

hi. i like have a good game balanced. thats why I'm loving this new update. anyway, i still don't know if is me or have something weird. i still need fight more. but in last week i fight like 6 times with mages in test-server. im a pally btw. all times they use manashields was impossible for me win. i will try again today, but really looks something is wrong right now. i will post again when i fight more in there. take care.

[Oidan]

ElephantonRU wrote:

As a topic starter I'd like to thank devs for toning down manashield to 1.5:1

This is a good step forward ,although I think that given the overall PVP damage reduction in GU36 old 1:1 manashield would be best.

1.5:1 manashield still gives sorcerors over 25K of hit points, probably no class in the game is capable of delivering this much damage fast enough (as you well know sorcerors do not need a whole lot time to kill anyone now with outright resists fixed).

What class and level do you play? You can add, I will give you that but you lack common sense. Well after reading your comment, I can see that sense is not all that common.

[silentpsycho]

Narl@Nagafen wrote:

erm.... warriors auto attack clothies between 100-600, and double attack. Stuns + Stifles, and a lot of CA's and they are dead. Rangers will hit even harder, and if the dual wield changes go through, the damage will be even harder.

You cant kill a caster in 2 hits anymore, and you mean because they have spent TWENTY FOUR AA points to get an ability that is INTENDED to help them live. In return for taking this AA line, the sorcerer loses out on possibly taking STR / AGI / WIS, which majorly reduces overall DPS.

I think its fine.

... um, I'd spend all 50 aa points for an instant cast 32k hp ward, and I play a defiler.  To be fair, though, it should take 30 seconds to cast this spell (and I'm being generous there).

[Bawang]

If at the end of this whole exercise it turns out that scouts are still going to be at the top of the food chain again (as it's certainly starting to look like), then what difference does it make that my Wizard can last 8 seconds instead of the previous 4 seconds.  Dead is dead and I lose infamy just the same.

[tass]

lol if a mage was actually a mage in this game they wouldn't need the manasheild to begin with. But a mage is not a mage in this game. lol a scout is a mage in this game, well and a fury to would be the closest resemblance. You know I wonder who actually thought these classes up and there abilities? Did they use any type of anything at all when pondering what each of them should do? I mean seriously. Lets look at you mages. Ok the main ones do a good bit of dps but get resisted so dam much. Now we can just say mages as a whole are used to dps right? right. Now you have your scouts. Now a rouge is like that trap finder and all of that right? Yet they do as much dmg as the mages. Now you have your predators. They basically deal dmg with some other aspect like tracking or whatever it is rangers do and such. But again they do as much dmg as your mages. Then you have your brawlers. Now they really should be offencive fighters but in this game they're called tanks. And they do not as much but pretty close to the other peoples dmg. So tack them on in there. So you have your mages, your scouts, your brawlers, 1 healer the fury (maybe the warden to with all that melee crap) and [Removed for Content] lets throw a sk in there to. All are basically your dps classes. And they don't differ in dps because they're all pretty much the same except that some do different things like have certain debuffs all of which don't mean jack really to the actual debuff classes And then you have your healers, basically 1 in the same all heal about the same or ward the same. And then your tanks which do have some diversity still. So basically [Removed for Content] was someone looking off of when they thought up each classes abilities. The box might as well of said we got 5 classes. Dps, crowd control, tank, healer, buffer. Because their is nothing different.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

Vydar@Vox wrote:

Muhaha@Nagafen wrote:

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote:

Ok, so getting 2:1 mana shield isn't enough for you Narl, you want to have your damage left alone?  ROFLMAO tbh.

for some reason no one is understanding what he is saying.  he is saying he is fine with the original changes to all the classes.  but they decided to remove the nerf on some of the high hitting spells or not nerf them as badly, but ice nova and fusions are still getting nerfed big.  he is saying it is not fair for every other class to get some of their damage back on their biggest hitting spells and not the wizzards. 

trying reading the entire post first tbh.

edit: because you're only lvl 25 your opinion doesnt count, HAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's had 3 level 70's on another server, so yeah. And it sounds like Ice Comet is getting its damage back, but not Fusion.  Since they said Decap, PT, etc, the etc. would make me think the class specific hard hitting hit is coming back.

/bow.  Thanks buddy!  And I will be in tier 7 on Nagafen soon enough, 15k faction and counting (Mega amazing dirge to replace my lowbie brigand!).  I have to get my 100AA and crap before I go there, not to mention pay for all of my tier 7 masters, so atm, I pvp a ton and farm even more.  I cannot raid so I'm going to have to rely on getting pvp gear fast as possible when I get there.  Also, would never leave Norrath Pirates, so even if I COULD raid, I wouldn't be able to join a raid guild and would never get loot.  Oh well.  And I am levelling as a wood worker.  You ever done a tradeskill that makes your eyes want to bleed?  It's even worse than provisioner.