ZONING/RESPAWNING/REENGAGEMENT

Mordumor · 05-25-2007, 09:25 AM

It seems to me this is an obvious flaw in the no-zoning rule, that I assumed SOE would have addressed at the same time, but it is obvious nowthat they have little ability to see ahead. Nice that you can't zone when in engaged in pvp, BAD that most respawn points are next to the ZONE LINE YOU CAN'T USE. So I am fighting a fury/wiz, I kill wizard, then I'm working on fury, by the time I killed the fury the wizard was back in game, had buffed the fury and gave me player hate or what ever to prevent me from zoning. Then I killed the wizard, and the fury had zoned back in engaged me and etc any group attacks i utilize makes me have player hate toward the fury again. Now, you could say well dont fight next to zone lines, I say fix it. How about you cant engage in pvp for 5min after you die from pvp unless you are rezzed by a dam cleric or druid, and this would fix several things.

Borias · 05-25-2007, 09:33 AM

An alternate to that would be that anyone that revive zergs you(ie, attacks you first while on recent, not you attack them) will drop status, tokens, and fame again. Granted this goes right back to the problem of token farming, so maybe just let them count as new kills, steal fame, and give status every time. Had a ranger revive up over and over today in PoA to try to snipe our warlock, but I bet if he lost fame every time, he wouldn't do it twice.

I feel for ya though, it sucks to not be able to dps down 2 people before one comes back and gets back into combat again. Opens up a whole new level of cheese.

sprogn · 05-25-2007, 09:47 AM

Actually doesn't work like that.

Example: If you are Qeynos and fighting Freeport 1 and Freeport 2 near a zoneline who are grouped. You kill Freeport 1, work on FP2.

FP1 then revives and re-engages, you are ONLY locked in on FP2. You can kill FP2 if you are fast and then zone.

I agree it's not fair, but your claim that you will be re-locked on FP1 is false - UNLESS you AOE'ed/Encounter AOE'ed or got taunted and didn't stop attacking fast enough.

Still needs to be addressed though.

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 10:07 AM

It's not zone lines you have to avoid, really, it's respawns.

Please tell us what zones are so horrendous that you can't do this?

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 10:36 AM

Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them.

GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT...

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 10:52 AM

kreepr13 wrote:

Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them.
GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT...

So what you're trying to say is that in spots where there previously were respawns and zone lines where people could zerg on you and you'd dishonorably flee, you now have to avoid those places for pvp?

I guess pvp is now defunct in GFD, BB, TS, EL, and Feerrott! [Removed for Content] YOU SOE!!! SMILEY

pvp used to suck in all the places you're talking about. attack someone by the spire camp in gfd, they zone out. attack someone by the ts docks, they fight back if they want to, and zone with immunity. ts, same, el, same, feerrrott, same.

Now they have to stay and fight.. and it's better.

Avoid revive points if you don't want to be zerged. True since the begining of pvp.

Splintered · 05-25-2007, 10:53 AM

yeah... a group tried this with my warlock last night... It was a group of 4 blue cons to my lvl 37 warlock. They quickly revived and tried to get back at me, but I had already fortuanly wiped there group. It was kinda pathetic though that 3 bruisers and an inquisitor had to try and attack again.

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 10:57 AM

Splintered wrote:

yeah... a group tried this with my warlock last night... It was a group of 4 blue cons to my lvl 37 warlock. They quickly revived and tried to get back at me, but I had already fortuanly wiped there group. It was kinda pathetic though that 3 bruisers and an inquisitor had to try and attack again.

i think the pathetic started when they said "Yeah.. let's get that third bruiser, 2 isn't enough"

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 11:46 AM

Bozidar wrote:

kreepr13 wrote:
Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them.
GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT...
So what you're trying to say is that in spots where there previously were respawns and zone lines where people could zerg on you and you'd dishonorably flee, you now have to avoid those places for pvp?
I guess pvp is now defunct in GFD, BB, TS, EL, and Feerrott! [I cannot control my vocabulary] YOU SOE!!!
pvp used to suck in all the places you're talking about. attack someone by the spire camp in gfd, they zone out. attack someone by the ts docks, they fight back if they want to, and zone with immunity. ts, same, el, same, feerrrott, same.
Now they have to stay and fight.. and it's better.
Avoid revive points if you don't want to be zerged. True since the begining of pvp.

My point being that before you could engage in a fight and if they res zerg you can get out now you cant so you are stuck either till you drop them all and don't reingage, get killed, run out of power from fending off the res zerging and get killed. Yeah there are spots that the revive points are out of the way and you can avoid it but there are a lot that there not. I didn't avoid pvp anywhere before because if they res zerged I could just zone and move on. Now I have to avoid spots like that because I can get locked in a zone by my enemy, if I engage.

I have already experienced and watched people us this to lock people in zones to get ganked( I will be getting the tinkered goggles that lets me see stealth now). I give up the argument, its not worth my time any more. I will just deal with it. I will not engage unless I am sure that I wont get ganked so less pvp for me and everyone I come across. I was cautious before now I will be very cautious. Edit* as far as dishonorably fleeing yeah if I had already killed them and they are Zerging then yeah cause at that point I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. So yeah I'm out of there.

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 11:59 AM

But that's the point.... don't fight near rez spots. Period.

Zerging is bad, and i'm open to a discussion on how to fix it (such as the widely mentioned "you can not revive while your party is engaged in pvp combat" idea).

Until zerging is fixed though, just avoid rez spots. Just like you avoid guards with rangers near them because of Hook Arrow.

Mordumor · 05-25-2007, 12:25 PM

There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule).

Get rid of locked zoning, or fix the rez zerg..you can't have both.

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 12:36 PM

Mordumor@Nagafen wrote:

There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule).

I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else.

I thought about it and seems the people that cry the most get what they want in this game, look all the crybabies got no zoning put in so let the crying begin

I agree get rid of the locked zoning.

sprogn · 05-25-2007, 12:43 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

Mordumor@Nagafen wrote:
There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule).
I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else.

It's kind of funny to see someone with a L17 twink in his sig complain about it. How many of your kills were made in the caves and involved hopping to the caves, running a lap of dishonour and zoning back to Down Below or Vermins before this fix?

Rez zerging is a problem. Best way to deal with it is to introduce "PVP Rez Sickness". Your stats (HP/Power/STA/STR/INT/WIS/AGI) are reduced by 95% for the first minute, 75% for the second minute, 50% for the third minute and 25% in the fourth and fifth minute. After a full 5 minutes, rez sickness is gone. Leave immunity as it is - it will force people to stand still and not re-engage.

As for people baiting someone into combat then zoning in a group/raid on them mid-fight - if a group member is engaged in PVP when you load into a zone, it should "break" the encounter - meaning the two in combat can not loose fame/coin to each other. The fight can still continue - but nothing is gained or lost.

sprogn · 05-25-2007, 12:47 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

Mordumor@Nagafen wrote:
I thought about it and seems the people that cry the most get what they want in this game, look all the crybabies got no zoning put in so let the crying begin
I agree get rid of the locked zoning.

Nice addition on the edit. I've never cried about people running away in PVP - sure it's annoying when someone tried to gank, realise they've made an error and uses 65% sprint or pact to run to a zone and flee - but hardly worth crying about.

However, I think no zoning in PVP is a GREAT addition. I love it! It makes you think twice before trying for a gank, and it's definately a blast when a group of green's tries to have a go then scarpers when you take out their healer. Catch them up at the zone and pick them off one at a time.

Few fixes are needed as I mentioned above, but overall great change!

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 12:57 PM

sprognak wrote:

kreepr13 wrote:
Mordumor@Nagafen wrote:
There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule).
I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else.
It's kind of funny to see someone with a L17 twink in his sig complain about it. How many of your kills were made in the caves and involved hopping to the caves, running a lap of dishonour and zoning back to Down Below or Vermins before this fix?
Rez zerging is a problem. Best way to deal with it is to introduce "PVP Rez Sickness". Your stats (HP/Power/STA/STR/INT/WIS/AGI) are reduced by 95% for the first minute, 75% for the second minute, 50% for the third minute and 25% in the fourth and fifth minute. After a full 5 minutes, rez sickness is gone. Leave immunity as it is - it will force people to stand still and not re-engage.
As for people baiting someone into combat then zoning in a group/raid on them mid-fight - if a group member is engaged in PVP when you load into a zone, it should "break" the encounter - meaning the two in combat can not loose fame/coin to each other. The fight can still continue - but nothing is gained or lost.

Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning.

Mordumor · 05-25-2007, 01:03 PM

Expanding the discussion..if i just kill somone and they "revive" zerg and are involved in killing me why do they get infamy and why do I lose infamy? They should not be able toget infamy off me at all for 30min, just like i can't get infamy off them for 30min. Doesnt even make sense to have it any other way. We really need to have battle rezzes mean something.

sprogn · 05-25-2007, 01:08 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning.

Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here.

GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere.

CL - fair do's.

Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone?

Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday.

azekah · 05-25-2007, 01:29 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right.

Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight?

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 01:31 PM

azekah wrote:

kreepr13 wrote:
This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right.
Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight?

dunno.. i went to pirate school, not paladin school.

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 01:39 PM

sprognak wrote:

kreepr13 wrote:
Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning.
Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here.
GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere.
CL - fair do's.
Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone?
Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday.

Whats in my sig about what other tiers I play? Nothing and thats what is none of your business. Putting ghila in my sig is a stab at people that cry about level locked twinks, a few inperticuler. If you gather all your info about people from there sig then you got a little to learn. /backontrack

Sorry left out GFD and now DLW to but I notice you don't mention Qgates and roaming Antonica, I hunt every where I can. If there are Q in there I will go after them. TS griff well not everyone that goes there res zergs but think what you will. I run when I must and stay when I can. I am not going to just sit there and hand it over and I don't expect anyone else to either.

There are many issues that should have been resolved befor this was put in. Game is worse today then it was on Tuesday

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 01:43 PM

Bozidar wrote:

azekah wrote:
kreepr13 wrote:
This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right.
Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight?
dunno.. i went to pirate school, not paladin school.

I am talking hacks/exploites/bugs/. Not 3vs.1 fair

Bozidar · 05-25-2007, 01:51 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

I am talking hacks/exploites/bugs/. Not 3vs.1 fair

Every time i see it, i /petition it. I've rarely, if ever, seen the same guy hack more than one time if i /petition them.

/report

/petition <-- give name and details of the fight...

in my experience, the GMs do a bang up job on that stuff.

sprogn · 05-25-2007, 01:51 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

sprognak wrote:
kreepr13 wrote:
Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning.
Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here.
GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere.
CL - fair do's.
Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone?
Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday.
Whats in my sig about what other tiers I play? Nothing and thats what is none of your business. Putting ghila in my sig is a stab at people that cry about level locked twinks, a few inperticuler. If you gather all your info about people from there sig then you got a little to learn. /backontrack
Sorry left out GFD and now DLW to but I notice you don't mention Qgates and roaming Antonica, I hunt every where I can. If there are Q in there I will go after them. TS griff well not everyone that goes there res zergs but think what you will. I run when I must and stay when I can. I am not going to just sit there and hand it over and I don't expect anyone else to either.
There are many issues that should have been resolved befor this was put in. Game is worse today then it was on Tuesday

Sitting there and handing it over? To be prevented from zoning you actually have to attack/engage someone, if you made a bad choice on a target then give it your best shot and try and hide.

No longer are fights won by who has the fastest PC. - And this is coming from someone who 95% of fights that involve my opponent running, ends up loading in before them.

You think it's worse, I think it's better. Bottom line is it is what it is, so learn to live with it.

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 02:10 PM

sprognak wrote:

Sitting there and handing it over? To be prevented from zoning you actually have to attack/engage someone, if you made a bad choice on a target then give it your best shot and try and hide.
No longer are fights won by who has the fastest PC. - And this is coming from someone who 95% of fights that involve my opponent running, ends up loading in before them.
You think it's worse, I think it's better. Bottom line is it is what it is, so learn to live with it.

Yeah bad choice is thinking I at 17 can handle a 25 one vs. one that's a bad choice. Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live

My fights where not won because someone had a faster pc if they got to a zone line and zoned I let them get there. My fault, not my computer. Did I chase them back and forth and listen to them lol at me eeehhh some times hopping that I would catch them slippin but not most I would move on.

Yeah I agree we disagree and it is what it is, for now. I will learn to live with it for now. I do know this though it's been proven time and time again on these forums that the people that cry the loudest get what they want.

Cantilena · 05-25-2007, 03:19 PM

When you make a kill near a revive point:

1) Don't re-engage the bind-rusher. Finish the kill you are working on, THEN zone. If the bind-rush worked for your enemy, and you go down, get over it and/or don't fight at revive points.

2) If you have to run from the bind-rusher, run AWAY from the zone. (I know, it's a foreign idea to most zone-hugging wussies to run anywhere else, but it CAN be done.)

Bind rushing has always been a problem in this game, both before the EoF care-bear immunity and after; both before and after this change as well. There have been many good suggestions adressing the issue:

1) More crippling revive sickness (mentioned above in this thread)

2) Make /recent work both ways. Have /recentkills and /recentdeaths lists. If you attack someone on your /recentdeaths lists within say 5 minutes (long enough to ensure that the original fight is over), you gain NOTHING. (This will not prevent bind-rushing, but would take away any positive reward for the bind-rusher). They could also make it so the player being re-attacked would lose no fame if they lost. (They would still get no fame for winning, since the bind-rusher would be on their /recentkills list).

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 04:04 PM

DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game.

Cantilena · 05-25-2007, 04:10 PM

kreepr13 wrote:

DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game.

Names like "coward"? If the shoe fits...

I never liked bind rushing either, and have posted suggesting the above fixes many times. But no, I never found bind-rushing to be so annoying that it made the game not fun anymore. Never finding anyone interested in fighting unless they were guaranteed a victory did indeed make the game not fun.

PS: learn to spell / type. You make yourself look like an idiot.

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 04:49 PM

Feroce@Venekor wrote:

kreepr13 wrote:
DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game.
Names like "coward"? If the shoe fits...
I never liked bind rushing either, and have posted suggesting the above fixes many times. But no, I never found bind-rushing to be so annoying that it made the game not fun anymore. Never finding anyone interested in fighting unless they were guaranteed a victory did indeed make the game not fun.
PS: learn to spell / type. You make yourself look like an idiot.

Call it what you want I call it playing smart and avoiding a death. Point still is they should have fixed the game before they broke it even further.

LOL you got nothing better then spell check/typo. Why don't you go back to delivering your pies.

jimmythenun · 05-25-2007, 05:42 PM

"Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live" Translated: " I want to pick only fights I can win, and if the shoe is on the other foot, I want to run." You chose your opponent and they outsmarted you. You picked a fight you thought you could win and then the tide turned. You got beat, fooled, whatever you want to call it. I die, a lot. It doesn't really bother me that much. Level locked twinks in the caves, wreaking havoc and then zoning out when reinforcements come are ruining the game for true newbs trying to level up. I'm for the change, if I choose to fight, I'll win or die.

kreepr · 05-25-2007, 06:02 PM

jimmythenun wrote:

"Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live" Translated: " I want to pick only fights I can win, and if the shoe is on the other foot, I want to run." You chose your opponent and they outsmarted you. You picked a fight you thought you could win and then the tide turned. You got beat, fooled, whatever you want to call it. I die, a lot. It doesn't really bother me that much. Level locked twinks in the caves, wreaking havoc and then zoning out when reinforcements come are ruining the game for true newbs trying to level up. I'm for the change, if I choose to fight, I'll win or die.

Yeah and your point is??? Who picks a fight they cant win just to do it??? And yes I will run and evade. It's part of the game. It's a strategic move. It's your job as a player to stop that person from running but some of you couldn't do it or figure it out so you have to have Sony do it for you.

I am so glad you like to die I don't.

I'm not for the change.

05-25-2007, 09:25 AM	#1
Mordumor Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Recruiters Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	It seems to me this is an obvious flaw in the no-zoning rule, that I assumed SOE would have addressed at the same time, but it is obvious nowthat they have little ability to see ahead. Nice that you can't zone when in engaged in pvp, BAD that most respawn points are next to the ZONE LINE YOU CAN'T USE. So I am fighting a fury/wiz, I kill wizard, then I'm working on fury, by the time I killed the fury the wizard was back in game, had buffed the fury and gave me player hate or what ever to prevent me from zoning. Then I killed the wizard, and the fury had zoned back in engaged me and etc any group attacks i utilize makes me have player hate toward the fury again. Now, you could say well dont fight next to zone lines, I say fix it. How about you cant engage in pvp for 5min after you die from pvp unless you are rezzed by a dam cleric or druid, and this would fix several things. __________________

05-25-2007, 09:47 AM	#3
sprogn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	Actually doesn't work like that. Example: If you are Qeynos and fighting Freeport 1 and Freeport 2 near a zoneline who are grouped. You kill Freeport 1, work on FP2. FP1 then revives and re-engages, you are ONLY locked in on FP2. You can kill FP2 if you are fast and then zone. I agree it's not fair, but your claim that you will be re-locked on FP1 is false - UNLESS you AOE'ed/Encounter AOE'ed or got taunted and didn't stop attacking fast enough. Still needs to be addressed though. __________________

05-25-2007, 10:52 AM	#6
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	kreepr13 wrote: Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them. GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT... So what you're trying to say is that in spots where there previously were respawns and zone lines where people could zerg on you and you'd dishonorably flee, you now have to avoid those places for pvp? I guess pvp is now defunct in GFD, BB, TS, EL, and Feerrott! [Removed for Content] YOU SOE!!! pvp used to suck in all the places you're talking about. attack someone by the spire camp in gfd, they zone out. attack someone by the ts docks, they fight back if they want to, and zone with immunity. ts, same, el, same, feerrrott, same. Now they have to stay and fight.. and it's better. Avoid revive points if you don't want to be zerged. True since the begining of pvp.

05-25-2007, 10:53 AM	#7
Splintered Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 344	yeah... a group tried this with my warlock last night... It was a group of 4 blue cons to my lvl 37 warlock. They quickly revived and tried to get back at me, but I had already fortuanly wiped there group. It was kinda pathetic though that 3 bruisers and an inquisitor had to try and attack again. __________________

05-25-2007, 10:57 AM	#8
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	Splintered wrote: yeah... a group tried this with my warlock last night... It was a group of 4 blue cons to my lvl 37 warlock. They quickly revived and tried to get back at me, but I had already fortuanly wiped there group. It was kinda pathetic though that 3 bruisers and an inquisitor had to try and attack again. i think the pathetic started when they said "Yeah.. let's get that third bruiser, 2 isn't enough"

05-25-2007, 09:33 AM	#2
Borias Server: Venekor Guild: Shadows of Storm Rank: Lord of Shadows Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 621	An alternate to that would be that anyone that revive zergs you(ie, attacks you first while on recent, not you attack them) will drop status, tokens, and fame again. Granted this goes right back to the problem of token farming, so maybe just let them count as new kills, steal fame, and give status every time. Had a ranger revive up over and over today in PoA to try to snipe our warlock, but I bet if he lost fame every time, he wouldn't do it twice. I feel for ya though, it sucks to not be able to dps down 2 people before one comes back and gets back into combat again. Opens up a whole new level of cheese.

05-25-2007, 10:07 AM	#4
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	It's not zone lines you have to avoid, really, it's respawns. Please tell us what zones are so horrendous that you can't do this?

05-25-2007, 10:36 AM	#5
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them. GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT...

05-25-2007, 11:46 AM	#9
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	Bozidar wrote: kreepr13 wrote: Come on Boz you should know there are quite a few zone lines that have respawns right by them. GFD/BB, TS docks, EL, Ferrot just to name a few. Alot of them have them right at the front of the zone where you do alot of the new quests for the zone. Trying to fix something that wasent broke cause a few people where crying about runners. Now it really is broke and more places we have to avoid PVP GREAT... So what you're trying to say is that in spots where there previously were respawns and zone lines where people could zerg on you and you'd dishonorably flee, you now have to avoid those places for pvp? I guess pvp is now defunct in GFD, BB, TS, EL, and Feerrott! [I cannot control my vocabulary] YOU SOE!!! pvp used to suck in all the places you're talking about. attack someone by the spire camp in gfd, they zone out. attack someone by the ts docks, they fight back if they want to, and zone with immunity. ts, same, el, same, feerrrott, same. Now they have to stay and fight.. and it's better. Avoid revive points if you don't want to be zerged. True since the begining of pvp. My point being that before you could engage in a fight and if they res zerg you can get out now you cant so you are stuck either till you drop them all and don't reingage, get killed, run out of power from fending off the res zerging and get killed. Yeah there are spots that the revive points are out of the way and you can avoid it but there are a lot that there not. I didn't avoid pvp anywhere before because if they res zerged I could just zone and move on. Now I have to avoid spots like that because I can get locked in a zone by my enemy, if I engage. I have already experienced and watched people us this to lock people in zones to get ganked( I will be getting the tinkered goggles that lets me see stealth now). I give up the argument, its not worth my time any more. I will just deal with it. I will not engage unless I am sure that I wont get ganked so less pvp for me and everyone I come across. I was cautious before now I will be very cautious. Edit* as far as dishonorably fleeing yeah if I had already killed them and they are Zerging then yeah cause at that point I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. So yeah I'm out of there.

05-25-2007, 11:59 AM	#10
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	But that's the point.... don't fight near rez spots. Period. Zerging is bad, and i'm open to a discussion on how to fix it (such as the widely mentioned "you can not revive while your party is engaged in pvp combat" idea). Until zerging is fixed though, just avoid rez spots. Just like you avoid guards with rangers near them because of Hook Arrow.

05-25-2007, 12:25 PM	#11
Mordumor Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Recruiters Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule). Get rid of locked zoning, or fix the rez zerg..you can't have both. __________________

05-25-2007, 12:36 PM	#12
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	Mordumor@Nagafen wrote: There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule). I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else. I thought about it and seems the people that cry the most get what they want in this game, look all the crybabies got no zoning put in so let the crying begin I agree get rid of the locked zoning.

05-25-2007, 12:43 PM	#13
sprogn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	kreepr13 wrote: Mordumor@Nagafen wrote: There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule). I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else. It's kind of funny to see someone with a L17 twink in his sig complain about it. How many of your kills were made in the caves and involved hopping to the caves, running a lap of dishonour and zoning back to Down Below or Vermins before this fix? Rez zerging is a problem. Best way to deal with it is to introduce "PVP Rez Sickness". Your stats (HP/Power/STA/STR/INT/WIS/AGI) are reduced by 95% for the first minute, 75% for the second minute, 50% for the third minute and 25% in the fourth and fifth minute. After a full 5 minutes, rez sickness is gone. Leave immunity as it is - it will force people to stand still and not re-engage. As for people baiting someone into combat then zoning in a group/raid on them mid-fight - if a group member is engaged in PVP when you load into a zone, it should "break" the encounter - meaning the two in combat can not loose fame/coin to each other. The fight can still continue - but nothing is gained or lost. __________________

05-25-2007, 12:47 PM	#14
sprogn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	kreepr13 wrote: Mordumor@Nagafen wrote: I thought about it and seems the people that cry the most get what they want in this game, look all the crybabies got no zoning put in so let the crying begin I agree get rid of the locked zoning. Nice addition on the edit. I've never cried about people running away in PVP - sure it's annoying when someone tried to gank, realise they've made an error and uses 65% sprint or pact to run to a zone and flee - but hardly worth crying about. However, I think no zoning in PVP is a GREAT addition. I love it! It makes you think twice before trying for a gank, and it's definately a blast when a group of green's tries to have a go then scarpers when you take out their healer. Catch them up at the zone and pick them off one at a time. Few fixes are needed as I mentioned above, but overall great change! __________________

05-25-2007, 12:57 PM	#15
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	sprognak wrote: kreepr13 wrote: Mordumor@Nagafen wrote: There are enough disadvatanges for guards as it is. If I kill someone, he should not be able to run back and continue helping his partner, especially now that I am locked from zoning. If you can't recognize how this is an unreasonable advantage, then you are likely playing one of the two-button wonder classes that kill people in 5 seconds- regardless if its right by the zoneline or 25seconds away. Any zone that has only one entrance and exit, this is a problem (i.e. cazic thule). I play mostly scouts and I do agree with you. It's a half [I cannot control my vocabulary] solution was not tested fully and I already had figured out how to pvp at res points which gave me more opportunity to pvp and not worry about avoiding them. Now I have to avoid them cause there is no way around it. This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. This would have been a great change, but they didn't fix the bugs it didn't get tested and people look for anything they can use to screw someone else. It's kind of funny to see someone with a L17 twink in his sig complain about it. How many of your kills were made in the caves and involved hopping to the caves, running a lap of dishonour and zoning back to Down Below or Vermins before this fix? Rez zerging is a problem. Best way to deal with it is to introduce "PVP Rez Sickness". Your stats (HP/Power/STA/STR/INT/WIS/AGI) are reduced by 95% for the first minute, 75% for the second minute, 50% for the third minute and 25% in the fourth and fifth minute. After a full 5 minutes, rez sickness is gone. Leave immunity as it is - it will force people to stand still and not re-engage. As for people baiting someone into combat then zoning in a group/raid on them mid-fight - if a group member is engaged in PVP when you load into a zone, it should "break" the encounter - meaning the two in combat can not loose fame/coin to each other. The fight can still continue - but nothing is gained or lost. Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning.

05-25-2007, 01:03 PM	#16
Mordumor Server: Nagafen Guild: Illuminati Rank: Recruiters Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	Expanding the discussion..if i just kill somone and they "revive" zerg and are involved in killing me why do they get infamy and why do I lose infamy? They should not be able toget infamy off me at all for 30min, just like i can't get infamy off them for 30min. Doesnt even make sense to have it any other way. We really need to have battle rezzes mean something. __________________

05-25-2007, 01:08 PM	#17
sprogn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	kreepr13 wrote: Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning. Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here. GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere. CL - fair do's. Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone? Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday. __________________

05-25-2007, 01:29 PM	#18
azekah Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Jersey Posts: 818	kreepr13 wrote: This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight?

05-25-2007, 01:31 PM	#19
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	azekah wrote: kreepr13 wrote: This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight? dunno.. i went to pirate school, not paladin school.

05-25-2007, 01:39 PM	#20
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	sprognak wrote: kreepr13 wrote: Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning. Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here. GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere. CL - fair do's. Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone? Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday. Whats in my sig about what other tiers I play? Nothing and thats what is none of your business. Putting ghila in my sig is a stab at people that cry about level locked twinks, a few inperticuler. If you gather all your info about people from there sig then you got a little to learn. /backontrack Sorry left out GFD and now DLW to but I notice you don't mention Qgates and roaming Antonica, I hunt every where I can. If there are Q in there I will go after them. TS griff well not everyone that goes there res zergs but think what you will. I run when I must and stay when I can. I am not going to just sit there and hand it over and I don't expect anyone else to either. There are many issues that should have been resolved befor this was put in. Game is worse today then it was on Tuesday

05-25-2007, 01:43 PM	#21
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	Bozidar wrote: azekah wrote: kreepr13 wrote: This system would work just fine had all the bugs of getting pulled into combat and in general just dirty play had been resolved, if everyone on this server played fair LOL yeah right. Lol...since when is PvP supposed to be a fair fight? dunno.. i went to pirate school, not paladin school. I am talking hacks/exploites/bugs/. Not 3vs.1 fair

05-25-2007, 01:51 PM	#22
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	kreepr13 wrote: I am talking hacks/exploites/bugs/. Not 3vs.1 fair Every time i see it, i /petition it. I've rarely, if ever, seen the same guy hack more than one time if i /petition them. /report /petition <-- give name and details of the fight... in my experience, the GMs do a bang up job on that stuff.

05-25-2007, 01:51 PM	#23
sprogn General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	kreepr13 wrote: sprognak wrote: kreepr13 wrote: Well whats so funny about it? Just cause I have that toon in my sig does not mean its my only one I got toons from T5 down. But that's really none of your business is it, what toons I have and what levels I play. As far as where I play most of my kills have been in GY,Sprawl, Antonica, Qgates, TSgriff, alot of time in CL and yes I have gone in the caves, oakmyst,and forestruins. I hunt where I can. I still stand by all that other stuff should have been fix before they just threw in no zoning. Well to be honest, putting it in your sig for the world to see kinda makes it everyone's business. People like to see what perspective the arguement is coming from, but let's not derail totally here. GY/Sprawl/Caves/Oakmyst/Forest Ruins - Near a zoneline pretty much everywhere. CL - fair do's. Ant near TS Grifs - Rez zerging anyone? Again, there are some issues to be resolved, but the game is better today than it was yesterday. Whats in my sig about what other tiers I play? Nothing and thats what is none of your business. Putting ghila in my sig is a stab at people that cry about level locked twinks, a few inperticuler. If you gather all your info about people from there sig then you got a little to learn. /backontrack Sorry left out GFD and now DLW to but I notice you don't mention Qgates and roaming Antonica, I hunt every where I can. If there are Q in there I will go after them. TS griff well not everyone that goes there res zergs but think what you will. I run when I must and stay when I can. I am not going to just sit there and hand it over and I don't expect anyone else to either. There are many issues that should have been resolved befor this was put in. Game is worse today then it was on Tuesday Sitting there and handing it over? To be prevented from zoning you actually have to attack/engage someone, if you made a bad choice on a target then give it your best shot and try and hide. No longer are fights won by who has the fastest PC. - And this is coming from someone who 95% of fights that involve my opponent running, ends up loading in before them. You think it's worse, I think it's better. Bottom line is it is what it is, so learn to live with it. __________________

05-25-2007, 02:10 PM	#24
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	sprognak wrote: Sitting there and handing it over? To be prevented from zoning you actually have to attack/engage someone, if you made a bad choice on a target then give it your best shot and try and hide. No longer are fights won by who has the fastest PC. - And this is coming from someone who 95% of fights that involve my opponent running, ends up loading in before them. You think it's worse, I think it's better. Bottom line is it is what it is, so learn to live with it. Yeah bad choice is thinking I at 17 can handle a 25 one vs. one that's a bad choice. Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live My fights where not won because someone had a faster pc if they got to a zone line and zoned I let them get there. My fault, not my computer. Did I chase them back and forth and listen to them lol at me eeehhh some times hopping that I would catch them slippin but not most I would move on. Yeah I agree we disagree and it is what it is, for now. I will learn to live with it for now. I do know this though it's been proven time and time again on these forums that the people that cry the loudest get what they want.

05-25-2007, 03:19 PM	#25
Cantilena Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	When you make a kill near a revive point: 1) Don't re-engage the bind-rusher. Finish the kill you are working on, THEN zone. If the bind-rush worked for your enemy, and you go down, get over it and/or don't fight at revive points. 2) If you have to run from the bind-rusher, run AWAY from the zone. (I know, it's a foreign idea to most zone-hugging wussies to run anywhere else, but it CAN be done.) Bind rushing has always been a problem in this game, both before the EoF care-bear immunity and after; both before and after this change as well. There have been many good suggestions adressing the issue: 1) More crippling revive sickness (mentioned above in this thread) 2) Make /recent work both ways. Have /recentkills and /recentdeaths lists. If you attack someone on your /recentdeaths lists within say 5 minutes (long enough to ensure that the original fight is over), you gain NOTHING. (This will not prevent bind-rushing, but would take away any positive reward for the bind-rusher). They could also make it so the player being re-attacked would lose no fame if they lost. (They would still get no fame for winning, since the bind-rusher would be on their /recentkills list). __________________

05-25-2007, 04:04 PM	#26
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game.

05-25-2007, 04:10 PM	#27
Cantilena Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 113	kreepr13 wrote: DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game. Names like "coward"? If the shoe fits... I never liked bind rushing either, and have posted suggesting the above fixes many times. But no, I never found bind-rushing to be so annoying that it made the game not fun anymore. Never finding anyone interested in fighting unless they were guaranteed a victory did indeed make the game not fun. PS: learn to spell / type. You make yourself look like an idiot. __________________

05-25-2007, 04:49 PM	#28
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	Feroce@Venekor wrote: kreepr13 wrote: DId you get over people running no you cryed about it started calling people names and qiut the game. Names like "coward"? If the shoe fits... I never liked bind rushing either, and have posted suggesting the above fixes many times. But no, I never found bind-rushing to be so annoying that it made the game not fun anymore. Never finding anyone interested in fighting unless they were guaranteed a victory did indeed make the game not fun. PS: learn to spell / type. You make yourself look like an idiot. Call it what you want I call it playing smart and avoiding a death. Point still is they should have fixed the game before they broke it even further. LOL you got nothing better then spell check/typo. Why don't you go back to delivering your pies.

05-25-2007, 05:42 PM	#29
jimmythenun Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 61	"Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live" Translated: " I want to pick only fights I can win, and if the shoe is on the other foot, I want to run." You chose your opponent and they outsmarted you. You picked a fight you thought you could win and then the tide turned. You got beat, fooled, whatever you want to call it. I die, a lot. It doesn't really bother me that much. Level locked twinks in the caves, wreaking havoc and then zoning out when reinforcements come are ruining the game for true newbs trying to level up. I'm for the change, if I choose to fight, I'll win or die.

05-25-2007, 06:02 PM	#30
kreepr General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 681	jimmythenun wrote: "Hitting an even con and having 3 others pop up outta no where is getting corn holed, which is why I am getting the tinkered goggles that lets you see stealth. Learn to live" Translated: " I want to pick only fights I can win, and if the shoe is on the other foot, I want to run." You chose your opponent and they outsmarted you. You picked a fight you thought you could win and then the tide turned. You got beat, fooled, whatever you want to call it. I die, a lot. It doesn't really bother me that much. Level locked twinks in the caves, wreaking havoc and then zoning out when reinforcements come are ruining the game for true newbs trying to level up. I'm for the change, if I choose to fight, I'll win or die. Yeah and your point is??? Who picks a fight they cant win just to do it??? And yes I will run and evade. It's part of the game. It's a strategic move. It's your job as a player to stop that person from running but some of you couldn't do it or figure it out so you have to have Sony do it for you. I am so glad you like to die I don't. I'm not for the change.