Arent we Dirges happy?

cartmania01 · 05-03-2007, 04:35 AM

When jumping around the forums i see a lot whine about "we" not being good enough, saying we dont do scout dps, its whine whine whine... i returned a few days ago after 7 months break... yesterday we raided the mayong zone (cant even remember the name of it)^^ and on the trash mobs i did up to 1200 dps, mostly around 1000-1100... i've 0 pieces of EoF gear i've 0 adornments i dont even have a cloak yet i've 57 aa's i use claymore dw and the adamantine one from Lab... u know they arent high dps dws... i see 1k+ dps being nice for a primary buff/debuff class, dont you? learn to play ur class, learn to luve it SMILEY

what is your highest dps? what is your avg about when raiding? i've only raided 2 times since i got back and the first time were a shorter raid, so cant say my yet... do you have problems seeing which CAs to roll, in what order? i can give out some Faqs about what i do if its needed, i just hate to see dirges whine SMILEY

XHousedog · 05-03-2007, 06:41 AM

Oh fine so you come back after 7 Months and the first thing you do is to post that on the official dirge Forum ... nice. So you hit 1k dps, did you hold it over the zone, what was the group setup, mt grp or dps group. What quality are your ca's, did you do debuffing or just tried to dish out dmg. Sry I'm posting rarely, love to play my dirge, think that overall the dirges subforum here offers the best info of all classforums but a post like that just makes me how does soe always says [cannot control my vocabulary]. Best for you would be to just leave for another 7 months or better never come back. /bow Housedog aka Tydus lvl 70 Dirge based on Valor

Topan · 05-03-2007, 08:46 AM

Yea I was sort of confused what the point of the post was. I'm pretty sure people have established that Dirge can parse 1k+, as with all melee classes the ease with which parses like that will come are reliant on a number of things: gear, spell quality, group buffs, and play skill, are the four that come to mind. I guess what you are saying is that you lack the gear, but parsed 1k... grats?

Whysprr_Wyrd · 05-03-2007, 10:41 AM

cartmania01 wrote:

i can give out some Faqs about what i do if its needed, i just hate to see dirges whine

You mean, like whining about the whining on the forums?

On the whole, this is an extraordinarily positive, supportive group. For every whiny post, and let's face facts, people are people, there's one or two (or fifty) in every crowd, there's ten posts trading information, or arguing about AAs (frankly, at this point the whining is almost preferable), or posting pics of their beloved characters, or asking how to make their dirge dirgelier.

Sheesh.

Whysp

munos · 05-03-2007, 10:47 AM

I have never broke 1k myself think my best is 800ish but Im in MT group debuffing, healing, hexing so I must suck without hitting the 1k barrier. I did just respect some bard AA to try to add some dps and but to keep quality to the group as well.

Chuut · 05-03-2007, 10:59 AM

So I am in a non-raiding guild that raids twice weekly. I am usually in the MT group, and I usually spend the first part of the fight debuffing. I have only appeared on the parse at a couple time. I'm wondering why.

My gear is a mix of EoF class gear, relic and KoS class gear. Most of my CAs and Spells are Adept I. Is this the reason? I would put down the money for Masters, I would have to sell a kidney to get them.

I just want to do a bit better for my guild. I know that I am not invited to the raid for my dps, but every little bit helps right?

MadTexan3 · 05-03-2007, 11:20 AM

My dirge is 15th level (in full mastercrafted I have to admit, made by my armorer and the dirge himself), I have no idea what his DPS would parse and I'm happy! SMILEY

Topan · 05-03-2007, 11:47 AM

Chuut wrote:

Most of my CAs and Spells are Adept I. Is this the reason?

It is more than likely a contributing factor. If you can't afford masters, Adept 3's are usually a pretty cheap alternative. Loams at this point in the tier should be fairly cheap or you can always just commit to harvesting them, a couple hours each time you play should get you fully A3'd before too long. Spell quality is definitely one way to contribute to your output though. It may or may not go without saying that your group buffs should be probably be the first priority for spell upgrades (if you are grouping/raiding). Chuut wrote:

I have only appeared on the parse at a couple time. I'm wondering why.

The fact of the matter is that there are more than likely going to be 8+ classes along on a raid that *should* be parsing higher than a dirge, so its not unreasonable to not be making parse, depending on the number of raiders being displayed and what your raid set up is. *If* dps is something you want to work on improving, my best recommendation would be to download ACT (advanced combat tracker) and start parsing raids yourself. Just leave it up in the background even and check it after the raid see where you stand, what spells were doing the most of your damage, what your chance to hits were, etc. You may want to seek out more +melee skills gear, or if getting alot of resists on a certain spell get an upgraded version of it. After getting a bit of a feel for it how the parser is laid out, you can set it to keep the mini-parse open and then look to see how each fight went for you between pulls, start to develop a better grasp on what CA orders work best and such. But as mentioned above the big factors are going to be: spell quality, gear, AAs, group make up, and player skill... with time there is no reason that all of these won't get better (cept group make up tends to stay fairly static, generally Dirge gets good classes with them in MT group (Guard's melee skill buff, Coercer dps buff, lots of HP/Resists from healers), if you have a Zerker or Chanter in the dps/OT group then I'm pretty happy there too), but it generally will take some time and practice.

cartmania01 · 05-03-2007, 01:00 PM

well saw a few topics on the other forums where bars were whining about our dps, and that soe dont love us... i noticed a few on this board aswell... i'm not here to brag, i'm just saying i like our dps, its very nice for us being buffers/debuffers... it was in a dps group i did that yes... max i did in mt group 7 months ago was about 900... if u dont count the nameds, yes i did hold it over the zone... only miss 3 masters, percussion, screeching and disheartening discante, we where 3 dirges, so we had 1 encounter debuff each, the debuffs i kept up... xhouse u are just a noob, no reason to respond like that, state what made u do it or just dont respond to posts... my point was, dont whine folks we are fine, dirges dont need more dps, all we need is issues or bug fixes, if they still excist SMILEY

munos · 05-03-2007, 02:14 PM

cartmania01 wrote:

my point was, dont whine folks we are fine, dirges dont need more dps, all we need is issues or bug fixes, if they still excist

So what issues need to be fixed or bugs?

Just b/c you feel one way doesnt mean others dont and since your the lead authority on dirges we should just follow what makes you feel good.

Everyone pays there 15$ a month and if someone brings something to the table not only as a problem as they see but also a solution then let it get debated. I personally never want to short myself or fellows dirges of any extra abilities or what not.

Fromingo · 05-03-2007, 02:40 PM

You posted up the higher end of the average raid dirge's DPS which seems to be 800-1200DPS. You're still outparsed by most of the tanks and priests. You are a scout so you really should be outparsed by only scouts and robe casters. You really should have DPS comparable to brawlers or Fury. That's not the case though. And in the last 7 months is when most everything changed and you went from being at the top 30% of of the DPS'rs to the bottom 10%.

I used to say we don't need more DPS. Why because back then we could still outparse almost everyone but other scouts/casters. That's the way it should be. The game evolved however, other classes evolved, bards did not evolve, my opinion evolved.

royalhardness · 05-04-2007, 12:24 AM

O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh.

Love and Kisses

Jal · 05-04-2007, 05:09 AM

I'm really enjoying my dirge so don't get me wrong that i hate the class but it would be nice to have a personal boost for soloing etc in between raids and the like without having to spec AA's differently. Going all out with eof legendary the odd fabled item and ad3 and the odd m1 ca's and spells in the MT group i can get 600 zonewide, thats not through lack of trying thats working my butt off, i was 4 dps behind a SK in the zonewide last labs run. Shadowknight 1574821 | 613.97 | 1% Dirge (me) 1564567 | 609.97 | 0% People view DPS as a solid unchanging thing but you have to remember a raid parsing 27k+ zonewide will have overall higher individual DPS than a raid parsing 16k zonewide. I'm happy continually trying to improve my performance but id not say no to a little behind the scenes bump.

firza · 05-04-2007, 05:40 AM

I agree with the OP that a talented dirge can put out some ok dps. Not enough if you compare it with talented non bard scouts, but at least ok dps.

But Also I want to say that most bards do not only complain because of the dps, but because of scaling issues, bugs, being neglected/feeling neglected etc.

Coming back to a game after 7 months you will see that some stuff changed. And not all for the good.

munos · 05-04-2007, 09:53 AM

royalhardness wrote:

O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh.
Love and Kisses

Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you

Jal · 05-04-2007, 10:05 AM

munos wrote:

royalhardness wrote:
O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh.
Love and Kisses
Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you

You totally missed the sarcasm in his post didnt you :p

DarkVillian · 05-04-2007, 11:15 AM

munos wrote:

royalhardness wrote:
O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh.
Love and Kisses
Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you

But, this one time (two nights ago) I was parsing like 1.5+k on the dirge............

In courts....with group and half farming masters......With Illusionist haste, Illusionary Arm, Synergism, Emberseed, apply poison and inq DPS mod...So what?

Total sarcasm from royalhardness...But still funny!

Hazeroth · 05-04-2007, 11:38 AM

Trouble with sarcasm is that is translates very poorly with the writen word.

munos · 05-04-2007, 12:35 PM

Maybe I did miss it. Was kinda hurried this am. I have seen in the posts where people are talking about these really high parses. I have seen some proof but then I have went and looked at peoples stats and equipement and I am thinking to myself hmmm

05-03-2007, 04:35 AM	#1
cartmania01 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 57	When jumping around the forums i see a lot whine about "we" not being good enough, saying we dont do scout dps, its whine whine whine... i returned a few days ago after 7 months break... yesterday we raided the mayong zone (cant even remember the name of it)^^ and on the trash mobs i did up to 1200 dps, mostly around 1000-1100... i've 0 pieces of EoF gear i've 0 adornments i dont even have a cloak yet i've 57 aa's i use claymore dw and the adamantine one from Lab... u know they arent high dps dws... i see 1k+ dps being nice for a primary buff/debuff class, dont you? learn to play ur class, learn to luve it what is your highest dps? what is your avg about when raiding? i've only raided 2 times since i got back and the first time were a shorter raid, so cant say my yet... do you have problems seeing which CAs to roll, in what order? i can give out some Faqs about what i do if its needed, i just hate to see dirges whine __________________ Hippi 80 Dirge

05-03-2007, 10:41 AM	#4
Whysprr_Wyrd Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 908	cartmania01 wrote: i can give out some Faqs about what i do if its needed, i just hate to see dirges whine You mean, like whining about the whining on the forums? On the whole, this is an extraordinarily positive, supportive group. For every whiny post, and let's face facts, people are people, there's one or two (or fifty) in every crowd, there's ten posts trading information, or arguing about AAs (frankly, at this point the whining is almost preferable), or posting pics of their beloved characters, or asking how to make their dirge dirgelier. Sheesh. Whysp __________________

05-03-2007, 11:20 AM	#7
MadTexan3 Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: Rotan, TX Posts: 442	My dirge is 15th level (in full mastercrafted I have to admit, made by my armorer and the dirge himself), I have no idea what his DPS would parse and I'm *happy! __________________ Beware the blades, but fear the voice...*

05-03-2007, 11:47 AM	#8
Topan Server: Everfrost General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 247	Chuut wrote: Most of my CAs and Spells are Adept I. Is this the reason? It is more than likely a contributing factor. If you can't afford masters, Adept 3's are usually a pretty cheap alternative. Loams at this point in the tier should be fairly cheap or you can always just commit to harvesting them, a couple hours each time you play should get you fully A3'd before too long. Spell quality is definitely one way to contribute to your output though. It may or may not go without saying that your group buffs should be probably be the first priority for spell upgrades (if you are grouping/raiding). Chuut wrote: I have only appeared on the parse at a couple time. I'm wondering why. The fact of the matter is that there are more than likely going to be 8+ classes along on a raid that should be parsing higher than a dirge, so its not unreasonable to not be making parse, depending on the number of raiders being displayed and what your raid set up is. If dps is something you want to work on improving, my best recommendation would be to download ACT (advanced combat tracker) and start parsing raids yourself. Just leave it up in the background even and check it after the raid see where you stand, what spells were doing the most of your damage, what your chance to hits were, etc. You may want to seek out more +melee skills gear, or if getting alot of resists on a certain spell get an upgraded version of it. After getting a bit of a feel for it how the parser is laid out, you can set it to keep the mini-parse open and then look to see how each fight went for you between pulls, start to develop a better grasp on what CA orders work best and such. But as mentioned above the big factors are going to be: spell quality, gear, AAs, group make up, and player skill... with time there is no reason that all of these won't get better (cept group make up tends to stay fairly static, generally Dirge gets good classes with them in MT group (Guard's melee skill buff, Coercer dps buff, lots of HP/Resists from healers), if you have a Zerker or Chanter in the dps/OT group then I'm pretty happy there too), but it generally will take some time and practice.

05-03-2007, 01:00 PM	#9
cartmania01 Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 57	well saw a few topics on the other forums where bars were whining about our dps, and that soe dont love us... i noticed a few on this board aswell... i'm not here to brag, i'm just saying i like our dps, its very nice for us being buffers/debuffers... it was in a dps group i did that yes... max i did in mt group 7 months ago was about 900... if u dont count the nameds, yes i did hold it over the zone... only miss 3 masters, percussion, screeching and disheartening discante, we where 3 dirges, so we had 1 encounter debuff each, the debuffs i kept up... xhouse u are just a noob, no reason to respond like that, state what made u do it or just dont respond to posts... my point was, dont whine folks we are fine, dirges dont need more dps, all we need is issues or bug fixes, if they still excist __________________ Hippi 80 Dirge

05-03-2007, 06:41 AM	#2
XHousedog Lord Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 24	Oh fine so you come back after 7 Months and the first thing you do is to post that on the official dirge Forum ... nice. So you hit 1k dps, did you hold it over the zone, what was the group setup, mt grp or dps group. What quality are your ca's, did you do debuffing or just tried to dish out dmg. Sry I'm posting rarely, love to play my dirge, think that overall the dirges subforum here offers the best info of all classforums but a post like that just makes me how does soe always says [cannot control my vocabulary]. Best for you would be to just leave for another 7 months or better never come back. /bow Housedog aka Tydus lvl 70 Dirge based on Valor

05-03-2007, 08:46 AM	#3
Topan Server: Everfrost General Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 247	Yea I was sort of confused what the point of the post was. I'm pretty sure people have established that Dirge can parse 1k+, as with all melee classes the ease with which parses like that will come are reliant on a number of things: gear, spell quality, group buffs, and play skill, are the four that come to mind. I guess what you are saying is that you lack the gear, but parsed 1k... grats?

05-03-2007, 10:47 AM	#5
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	I have never broke 1k myself think my best is 800ish but Im in MT group debuffing, healing, hexing so I must suck without hitting the 1k barrier. I did just respect some bard AA to try to add some dps and but to keep quality to the group as well.

05-03-2007, 10:59 AM	#6
Chuut Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 11	So I am in a non-raiding guild that raids twice weekly. I am usually in the MT group, and I usually spend the first part of the fight debuffing. I have only appeared on the parse at a couple time. I'm wondering why. My gear is a mix of EoF class gear, relic and KoS class gear. Most of my CAs and Spells are Adept I. Is this the reason? I would put down the money for Masters, I would have to sell a kidney to get them. I just want to do a bit better for my guild. I know that I am not invited to the raid for my dps, but every little bit helps right?

05-03-2007, 02:14 PM	#10
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	cartmania01 wrote: my point was, dont whine folks we are fine, dirges dont need more dps, all we need is issues or bug fixes, if they still excist So what issues need to be fixed or bugs? Just b/c you feel one way doesnt mean others dont and since your the lead authority on dirges we should just follow what makes you feel good. Everyone pays there 15$ a month and if someone brings something to the table not only as a problem as they see but also a solution then let it get debated. I personally never want to short myself or fellows dirges of any extra abilities or what not.

05-03-2007, 02:40 PM	#11
Fromingo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 536	You posted up the higher end of the average raid dirge's DPS which seems to be 800-1200DPS. You're still outparsed by most of the tanks and priests. You are a scout so you really should be outparsed by only scouts and robe casters. You really should have DPS comparable to brawlers or Fury. That's not the case though. And in the last 7 months is when most everything changed and you went from being at the top 30% of of the DPS'rs to the bottom 10%. I used to say we don't need more DPS. Why because back then we could still outparse almost everyone but other scouts/casters. That's the way it should be. The game evolved however, other classes evolved, bards did not evolve, my opinion evolved.

05-04-2007, 12:24 AM	#12
royalhardness Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 23	O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh. Love and Kisses

05-04-2007, 05:09 AM	#13
Jal General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,345	I'm really enjoying my dirge so don't get me wrong that i hate the class but it would be nice to have a personal boost for soloing etc in between raids and the like without having to spec AA's differently. Going all out with eof legendary the odd fabled item and ad3 and the odd m1 ca's and spells in the MT group i can get 600 zonewide, thats not through lack of trying thats working my butt off, i was 4 dps behind a SK in the zonewide last labs run. Shadowknight 1574821 \| 613.97 \| 1% Dirge (me) 1564567 \| 609.97 \| 0% People view DPS as a solid unchanging thing but you have to remember a raid parsing 27k+ zonewide will have overall higher individual DPS than a raid parsing 16k zonewide. I'm happy continually trying to improve my performance but id not say no to a little behind the scenes bump.

05-04-2007, 05:40 AM	#14
firza Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 640	I agree with the OP that a talented dirge can put out some ok dps. Not enough if you compare it with talented non bard scouts, but at least ok dps. But Also I want to say that most bards do not only complain because of the dps, but because of scaling issues, bugs, being neglected/feeling neglected etc. Coming back to a game after 7 months you will see that some stuff changed. And not all for the good.

05-04-2007, 09:53 AM	#15
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	royalhardness wrote: O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh. Love and Kisses Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you

05-04-2007, 10:05 AM	#16
Jal General Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 1,345	munos wrote: royalhardness wrote: O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh. Love and Kisses Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you You totally missed the sarcasm in his post didnt you :p

05-04-2007, 11:15 AM	#17
DarkVillian Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 282	munos wrote: royalhardness wrote: O last night we fought an Avatar don't really remember it's name but I was parsing 1500+ don't know what everyone is whinning about. I have mastercrafted weapons with procs, no fabled and only adapt 3 spells. O wait you would actually like to see a parse ah ah well you see our main parse guy was out that day, yeh yeh that's it and I didn't save mine so I'll have to get it next time. See Hippi anyone can do that so until you throw down some proof your statement means squat. You just sound like 1 Big A Hole. Anyways it was a cute story post more please so I can have a good laugh. Love and Kisses Show me the parse. I dont believe this one bit. Even if you in a off tank group buffed with every haste buff there is doing no debuffs on the avatar. No way he double ll you are doing this. Show me the parse and if so I will concede to you But, this one time (two nights ago) I was parsing like 1.5+k on the dirge............ In courts....with group and half farming masters......With Illusionist haste, Illusionary Arm, Synergism, Emberseed, apply poison and inq DPS mod...So what? Total sarcasm from royalhardness...But still funny!

05-04-2007, 11:38 AM	#18
Hazeroth Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 209	Trouble with sarcasm is that is translates very poorly with the writen word. __________________

05-04-2007, 12:35 PM	#19
munos Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 376	Maybe I did miss it. Was kinda hurried this am. I have seen in the posts where people are talking about these really high parses. I have seen some proof but then I have went and looked at peoples stats and equipement and I am thinking to myself hmmm