40% damage cap feedback

[Ikuri]

Before I start I apologize if I posted this on the wrong thread. I'm making a copy of it on the in testing boards as well.

Well here is my feedback on the 40% damage cap. I'm sure the intention of the DEVs  is to increase the length of pvp battles but putting in this cap. However this is a extremly game breaking change for this reason : pvp battles ending quick in pvp is not the cause by big nukes, its caused by the extremly high dps. Below is a list of pros and cons of the 40% cap :

pros : Fights against assasins, shadowknights, warlocks, wizards and rangers will now last longer ...sort of.

cons :

- Major problem of eq2 pvp being the dps, and the rouge classes such a change would make brigands and swashbucklers even more over-powered than they are now. Making scouts THE only valuble class in pvp.

- Such a change will drasticlly over powered druids, and push defilers and mystics even further back in the pvp line. If big damages only do 40% damage, wards will become less needed, and druis will be bale to heal ALL damage easily. So a simple heal that is on a fast casting time and resue time will quickly defuse a bigattack that takesl ong to cast or has a long recast. Ubalancement,

_ This change will totaly kil lthe SK class in pvp. SKs already do little damage with long casting times. Their mig has been nerfed with the dimishing curve to ap oint where scouts have aroundthe same mig as a plate tank. With PT being nerfed they will lose their place in pvp groups.

- Some of the classes on EQ have been developed revovling around their major nuke, nerfing their nuke will mean a revamp of the class or even remaking the class.

Steps that need to be taken to effectively put in a 40% damage cap :

- the DPS of classes such as rouges must be readjusted to be on pair with the big nuke classes such as wizards and warlocks.

- healing vs nuke ratio must be readjusted so that healers are less effective against healer the big nuker's main damage.

- wizards, warlocks and SK will need to be totally revamped and remade since such a change will turn their class upside down in pvp.

In short such a change shouldn't go thru on its own, as i stated above this change will require a mini revamp of the game and some classes to be a effective way of enhancing pvp. As it is right now, its just breaking it even more.

[Aeg]

the 40% rule was unpopular before it even went live. if it went live, it would be a hugely unpopular for anyone who cares about balance. this is a quick "fix" for classes which dont need it. as you said, the most powerful classes do not use large hits, they hit for medium damage very fast. this 40% rule doesnt even touch them.

unless this is the beginning of a much bigger picture, the 40% rule is entirely ignorant. if you want fights to last longer, you need to nerf the classes who actually kill people the fastest. thumbs down on the 40% rule.

[dnice74]

Back when they had the GU32 thread, I was ecstatic about a cap. Today, SK's still hit for 4500 on a crit, wizards can crush you with a snare and forced-crit fusion, KB and Decap are pretty much insta-death for mages, etc, etc. There needs to be a nerfing of these big shots, and I applaud the devs/designers for addressing the issue.

HOWEVER (a very big however)

This is a terrible way of doing it. This is going to screw some classes over to the point that no one will play them. These spells/abilities need to be nerfed INDIVIDUALLY, not capped across the board. PT only hits me sometimes for 2500-3500....and then what? So now it will only hit for 2000? 2500 on a crit? Honestly, I'll probably never lose to an SK again, the threat of PT was the only thing that makes me worry about them. Assassins do need a cap, but 40% might screw them against healers. Healers, brigs and swashies will become gods, unless there is something they are doing with them too (doubt it). Hell, this will benefit my class, too, but I would rather see balancing done PROPERLY. Some need to still hit for at least 50-60%(SK). Wizards do not need to be hitting for 5k, either, period. But 40% seems a little harsh for them too.

It's not that 40% is bad - it works for some of these classes, but man does it mess up some others. I want to know what is going to be done about scouts and healers, tbh. If you thought they were tough before? Pfffft.

[dnice74]

Aegiz wrote:

unless this is the beginning of a much bigger picture, the 40% rule is entirely ignorant. if you want fights to last longer, you need to nerf the classes who actually kill people the fastest. thumbs down on the 40% rule.

Exactly.

[tass]

How the hell can u even have feedback on it. None of the copies have made it over and of the 6 or 8 people that are actually in the server there all maybe 8 to 11 tops. Hell I think I hold the highest level char at 14 so far.

[yohann koldheart]

i think the only people against this change will be the wizards,rangers,and assasans. and becasue those classes are over 50% of the population because they are the easiest to play you will hear more crying about it. my copy didnt get to test yet, and ill tell you i think its a good change, no 61 ranger,wizard,or assasan should be able to 1 or 2 shot a 70 cloth caster. they need to make those high damage combat arts and nukes have a very high resist rate that will even those classes out more. wizards are worse then scouts in my mind, their root lasts 20+ seconds in pvp you need to constantly run around with potions or a wiz class can root you and burn you down before you see them.  the decap,assasinate, fusion,snipershot,ice comet or nova lines should  all have a 70% or better resist rate,before you figure in the targets resists.

[Groma]

Gideon@Venekor wrote:

i think the only people against this change will be the warlocks,wizards,rangers,and assasans. and becasue those classes are over 50% of the population because they are the easiest to play you will hear more crying about it. my copy didnt get to test yet, and ill tell you i think its a good change, no 61 ranger,wizard,or assasan should be able to 1 or 2 shot a 70 cloth caster. they need to make those high damage combat arts and nukes have a very high resist rate that will even those classes out more. wizards are worse then scouts in my mind, their root lasts 20+ seconds in pvp you need to constantly run around with potions or a wiz class can root you and burn you down before you see them.  the decap,assasinate, fusion,snipershot,ice comet or nova lines should  all have a 70% or better resist rate,before you figure in the targets resists.

And what game altering uber ability do warlocks get that makes us so uber?

[AbyssalSoul]

I was excited thinking that this whole 40% damage cap thing might have gone away... and it keeps sneaking back into discussions.  I think the 40% damage cap is the dumbest idea I have heard in awhile.  People hear things like "Oh wow, assassins and rangers get a one shot ability", but I'd like to argue that an assassin requires a lot more skill than people give them credit for, and I am sure it is the same with a ranger.  Now for warlocks and wizards... all I can say is WOW.  Let's make a class that is already underplayed, MORE underplayed.  A wizard would be hurt more than a warlock by this, but both would be affected.  People who are crying that warlocks and wizards are so uber that they need to be nerfed needs to re-evaluate themselves.  If you think they are a great number in the T7 Population, it is just because of all the damned botters.

I'm a cloth wearer... someone that could potentially die to decapitate, and I am 100% Against this 40% nerf.  I said it before, when this idea was being discussed, and I say it again now:  I know plenty of people who will quit PVP if it takes place.  Myself being one of them.

[Oshef]

If this ever goes live, without some other major changes accompanying it - it will be the end of everquest 2 pvp. Druids are already the only healer archetype that can solo heal a group in T7 PvP.. this will make it even worse. Rogues will be the ONLY viable DPS class. Awful, terrible idea.

[yohann koldheart]

if they dont put the 40% cap in they need to make the hard hitting wizard nukes and ranger ,assasan ca's changed so that players will resist them  70 +% of the time. how they are now they are just way to powerful. i got a self buffed cold resis of almost 9k and still get fusioned and ice nova'd for max of my health, wich is 4892 self buffed.

[AbyssalSoul]

Only if your pets only work 30% of the time, and you can't use undead tide... or any type of siphon life.  Yeah, right.

[Amphibia]

I have no big nukes, and get sniper one-shotted by rangers all the time. I still think a 40% cap is a horrible idea. Mainly because it will take away the only means some classes have and will cause further imbalance. Do druids and swashies need another boost? Well, that's what they're getting if this goes through. For not to speak of annoyance... this is the sort of thing that is guaranteed to [Removed for Content] your customers off. Some classes are supposed to have big hits, at least that's what you're lead to believe when you roll a ranger, assassin or wizard. Please don't take this to live, it is another step in the wrong direction and more of the dedicated players will say F it and leave.

[yohann koldheart]

nice try, my tide, or any of my pets cant 1 shot you or any other class. the problem is the 3 or 4 classes that can 1 shot others. you cant sit here and tell me thats balanced,no one player should be able to 1 shot kill anyone else. ps: maby the 40% cap isnt the way to go. but cloth and leather, mainly cloth need some chance to resist these nukes and ca's.

[Amphibia]

I'm not saying that everything is perfectly balanced today, I'm just worried this will cause further imbalance. The OP listed several reasons, did you read that? Classes with big hits have often little of other things. Let's use wizards as an example: - Low defense - Long casting times - Few means of control (as a necro, you have several. They really only have that root, and when it breaks....) ... and did I mention low defense? Most classes rip them apart easily as it is already, but they have a couple of big nukes to counter that with. Those are easily interrupted, have huge casting times and are often resisted. But when they land, they hit so you'll notice it. Is that really so unfair? And with this we havent even begun to discuss the effects a 40% cap may have on group and raid PvP.....

[The_Real_Ohno]

We lost enough ppl with EoF, how many more will we lose if this cap goes live?  Like Oshef said, this would truly kill EQ2 PvP if went live.

[Geoff]

screw this 40% idea, buff shaman and clerics for pvp, and let's call it a day.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

I think both are good already, but I want to know why you didn't poston the 'Devs-I need your help with brigs' post from  conjuror on vox, judging by your kvd ratio, you dont have to much of a problem owning anyone eh?  Tell him how to beat brigands as a conjuror please so he'll stop ranting :p

[The_Real_Ohno]

Fiz always runs in a grp, like 95% of the time.  He doesnt solo much at all.  Not crackin him for it, just sayin.  Casters T7 to stay alive pretty much have to be grped.

[Wytie]

The_Real_Ohnoes wrote:

We lost enough ppl with EoF, how many more will we lose if this cap goes live?  Like Oshef said, this would truly kill EQ2 PvP if went live.

I agree.... nerf heals  [Removed for Content] holes!  does SOE have any idea how hard it is to solo a healer? [Removed for Content] why dont we all roll healers and F our selfs................. Everyone talks about the SK's hell this will hardly effect me i hardly ever hit over 40% in T7 The dumbest part is now there will be an attack of greys cause they cant get one shotted or even 2 shoted any more by higher cons...

[Xzerius]

I have recently been seriously considering cancelling my EQ2 subscription. I almost wish the 40% cap went live because then my decision would be easy to make.  I play a large variety of classes. My only big hitter is a level 70 Assassin thats been un fun and parked and nothing more than craft mule anymore. The rest of my toons do not fall in the big hitter category and I am against the 40% cap. Part of the fun and risk is knowing there are classes capable of doing what they can do and trying to avoid them or giving my self a really huge pat on the back when I do  win vs them. PvE bored me to PvP.......... theres nothing left after this except /cancel.

Not sure about other servers but Venekor is pretty hurting for population. without a doubt this sure wont help it.

P.S.  Greys are already over powered vs higher level toons........ this change would put a nice bright red S on their breast plates.

[Gagla]

Wytie wrote:

The_Real_Ohnoes wrote:

We lost enough ppl with EoF, how many more will we lose if this cap goes live?  Like Oshef said, this would truly kill EQ2 PvP if went live.

I agree.... nerf heals  [I cannot control my vocabulary] holes!  does SOE have any idea how hard it is to solo a healer? [Removed for Content] why dont we all roll healers and F our selfs.................

Nerf Templar imo, definitely too good.

[Xzerius]

Gaglaak@Vox wrote:

Wytie wrote:

The_Real_Ohnoes wrote:

We lost enough ppl with EoF, how many more will we lose if this cap goes live?  Like Oshef said, this would truly kill EQ2 PvP if went live.

I agree.... nerf heals  [I cannot control my vocabulary] holes!  does SOE have any idea how hard it is to solo a healer? [Removed for Content] why dont we all roll healers and F our selfs.................

Nerf Templar imo, definitely too good.

I dont mind not being able to kill a healer solo.......... its BEING killed by a HEALER that I find out right embarrassing!!!!!

[Gagla]

It's been my experience in soloing as a templar that anyone who chooses to leave the area in the next 5 minutes gets to live. =p

 Your choice, run(Walk, crawl)away or die!

[Xzerius]

Gaglaak@Vox wrote:

It's been my experience in soloing as a templar that anyone who chooses to leave the area in the next 5 minutes gets to live. =p

 Your choice, run(Walk, crawl)away or die!

lol              actually........ I've seen some lvl 70 templars woop some  (_!_)

[Siphar]

Your kidding right? I'm a 70 assassin and here is my opinion..

Assassin's (some extent Rangers) will be hit the hardest by this change, followed by wizards and finally SK's. Sk's aren't supposed to be DPS, are not supposed to deal significant damage. They are Tanks and supposed to "Tank" for their group. HT imo is fluff, they should just be happy they can do some damage.

The whole point of an assassin is surprise attack, relying on burst inital damage. After the initial damage assassin's are extremely exposed and weak, similar in some respect to the ranger, but atleast they have the advantage of range and many in-combat speed buffs (through AA etc). This is why assasin's are [Removed for Content] in PvP, they are easy to fight against when you quickly learn their weaknesses.

Now totems make any surprise attack (especially at T7) by an Assassin almost impossible to 75%+ of the general non-group PvP population because they are scouts and can track.

This change will further boost classes that can sustain their dps like rogues making them even more over-powered.

A horrible change which if occurs i will personally just quit my Assassin and focus on my Coercer/Warden, if not altogether. I am very dissappointed with SoE's lack of attention to detail.

SoE should be focusing on the rogue class which is clearly dominating the PvP at present, due to their innate class design, and tweaking that instead of nerf'ing classes which are already semi-gimped (assassin's) and fully gimped (wizards).

My 2cp

[Ikuri]

Siphar wrote:

Your kidding right? I'm a 70 assassin and here is my opinion..

Assassin's (some extent Rangers) will be hit the hardest by this change, followed by wizards and finally SK's. Sk's aren't supposed to be DPS, are not supposed to deal significant damage. They are Tanks and supposed to "Tank" for their group. HT imo is fluff, they should just be happy they can do some damage.

The whole point of an assassin is surprise attack, relying on burst inital damage. After the initial damage assassin's are extremely exposed and weak, similar in some respect to the ranger, but atleast they have the advantage of range and many in-combat speed buffs (through AA etc). This is why assasin's are [Removed for Content] in PvP, they are easy to fight against when you quickly learn their weaknesses.

Now totems make any surprise attack (especially at T7) by an Assassin almost impossible to 75%+ of the general non-group PvP population because they are scouts and can track.

This change will further boost classes that can sustain their dps like rogues making them even more over-powered.

A horrible change which if occurs i will personally just quit my Assassin and focus on my Coercer/Warden, if not altogether. I am very dissappointed with SoE's lack of attention to detail.

SoE should be focusing on the rogue class which is clearly dominating the PvP at present, due to their innate class design, and tweaking that instead of nerf'ing classes which are already semi-gimped (assassin's) and fully gimped (wizards).

My 2cp

You might not know this so I won't flame you. Though withyour post you are putting yourself in a flame spot and might get one from other players :p

A SK is suppose to be a dps tank. I have played one far too long to know this. We get cut back on defensive aspects of a tank, that is why zerkers and guardians get to tank over a sk in every zone. However as it stands right now the whole arguement of tanks aren't suppose to do damage is null. Why ? Because a scout can take more hits than a tank can deal 20x the dps. A scout equally equipped as a tank at lvl 70 has 3% less mig and about 15-20% more avoidance and 20x the dps. I know you wouldn't know this if you haven;t played a tank class, but you might wanna re-think your post.

[Siphar]

One element in my post was about Sk's. DPS tanks or not, this change will not affect them nearly as much as wizards and assassin's.

That was the point of my post.

[Radigazt]

Two thumbs up for the 40% rule.    I think it is a great addition to PvP.  Now everyone has a chance to compete and it really only hurts those llamas that Harm Touch and camp, or Gank Greens.  Overall it's a very good rule. 

To the OP, it actually hurts Furies because their big hitters, Strike of Thunder line (Thunderbolt) and Starburst line (Starnova) will be nerfed, particularly against mages.  Additionally, they will no longer take advantage of the 35% critical chance from their Intelligence line since those spells are already 40% or more to white, blue and green cons.  Furthermore, the recent whigning about the Fury's Energy Vortex power should cool down as neither of those two lines can really benefit from Energy Vortex if the 40% rule goes into effect.  So, Fury DPS will take a major hit if this goes live.  When you say that it makes druids stronger .... I'm afraid you're very incorrect about Furies, it's a major nerf to Fury DPS. 

Wardens, like Swashbucklers and Brigands, will slip under the radar of this nerf, but I don't think Wardens DPS is out of line with a mele specc'd Defiler, Inquisitor, etc.  If your only real gripe is that Swashies and Brigands will be overpowered ... Swashies have been by far the best class for  a while now, and both Swashies and Brigands have been hearing how they're overpowered for a long time (despite Brigands being nerfed repeatedly). 

Shadowknights will have to play their classes instead of Harm Touching and then camping for 15 minutes ... good.  Warlocks may lose some DPS, but their AoE DPS will be even more in demand after the 40% rule goes into effect than it was before the 40% rule.  Yes, Assassins and to a lesser degree Rangers will lose some of their burst damage, but I don't think either class will be underpowered because of it ... those classes were and will remain two of the top 4 PvP classes along with the Swashbuckler and Brigand.  They'll still dominate as solo classes with huge burst DPS, tracking, stealth, evac, and a bunch of other nice PvP abilities. 

Wizards are the only class that I feel need help at the moment, and the 40% rule is going to hurt them even more.  I think Wizards should be boosted somehow, regardless of whether the 40% rule is implemented or not. 

 I vote YES to implementing the 40% rule. 

[Krokous]

Give plate tanks back their migitation: look at wardens or brigands migit! SK without HT is nothing - or let pvp SK change to other plate tank!

[Ikuri]

Radigazt wrote:

Two thumbs up for the 40% rule.    I think it is a great addition to PvP.  Now everyone has a chance to compete and it really only hurts those llamas that Harm Touch and camp, or Gank Greens.  Overall it's a very good rule. 

To the OP, it actually hurts Furies because their big hitters, Strike of Thunder line (Thunderbolt) and Starburst line (Starnova) will be nerfed, particularly against mages.  Additionally, they will no longer take advantage of the 35% critical chance from their Intelligence line since those spells are already 40% or more to white, blue and green cons.  Furthermore, the recent whigning about the Fury's Energy Vortex power should cool down as neither of those two lines can really benefit from Energy Vortex if the 40% rule goes into effect.  So, Fury DPS will take a major hit if this goes live.  When you say that it makes druids stronger .... I'm afraid you're very incorrect about Furies, it's a major nerf to Fury DPS. 

Wardens, like Swashbucklers and Brigands, will slip under the radar of this nerf, but I don't think Wardens DPS is out of line with a mele specc'd Defiler, Inquisitor, etc.  If your only real gripe is that Swashies and Brigands will be overpowered ... Swashies have been by far the best class for  a while now, and both Swashies and Brigands have been hearing how they're overpowered for a long time (despite Brigands being nerfed repeatedly). 

Shadowknights will have to play their classes instead of Harm Touching and then camping for 15 minutes ... good.  Warlocks may lose some DPS, but their AoE DPS will be even more in demand after the 40% rule goes into effect than it was before the 40% rule.  Yes, Assassins and to a lesser degree Rangers will lose some of their burst damage, but I don't think either class will be underpowered because of it ... those classes were and will remain two of the top 4 PvP classes along with the Swashbuckler and Brigand.  They'll still dominate as solo classes with huge burst DPS, tracking, stealth, evac, and a bunch of other nice PvP abilities. 

Wizards are the only class that I feel need help at the moment, and the 40% rule is going to hurt them even more.  I think Wizards should be boosted somehow, regardless of whether the 40% rule is implemented or not. 

 I vote YES to implementing the 40% rule. 

You are very wrong here. You are only looking at the direct effect of the change not the side effects. How would this hurt a fury's dps ? I hardly know of a fury that can hit me for over 40% of my max health. even if they do, the fact this over-poweres them even more is not because of their dps. I get the feeling you didn't even read my OP, you saw the word fury and overpowered in once setance and clickedo n the reply key. Furies never rely on their burst dps to win a fight, furies outlast their target's dps ..then kill them with their own slow but steady dps. Do you know what this change will do ? Lets say a wizard take 5-6seconds to hit the fury with fusion for only 40% ...then fusion will be down for about 1.5 min. Now in the 5-6 seconds how many heals the fury could get off to heal that 40% damage done ? if you do the math it will leave enough time to even damage the wizard.

Now on to SKs, how many SKs do you know that can hit over 40% of someone's health with pt ? If I'm lucky and crit when im grouped and have 950 intel I hit someone for about 4-4.5k. (thats including a few debuffs) thats about 40% isn't it ? Now what this change will do is, it will totally make the whole debuffing aspect of the game worthless. A big part of eq2 and t7 pvp is cordinating big nukes with group debuffs, which will go down the drain. Besides from that, SKs don't miss out on alot of aspects of being a plate tank due to their big nuke in pvp, nw taking that away without making changes to their class is a big nerf.

From what I gather from your post, you must be a level locker and speaking more of the low lvl pvp. In T2 and T3. Well i agree big nukes at that level ate almost one shot kill. Why does the T5, T6, T7 pvp have to suffer because of the already trouble maker twinks ? simple solution is to decrease the damage of the big nukes in lower lvls. They are perfectly fine in T7.