mentoring,PvP and you

Siphar · 04-05-2007, 08:58 PM

Was it really that bad being able to mentor and PvP?

Sure there were more unbalanced battles compared to today, however i'd rather have unbalanced PvP than no PvP.

Level locking issues have come up again, i personally feel level locking is fine. Swings and round-abouts.. but lets consider putting back in mentored PvP. Under current rules, you have to wait 30 secs to mentor/unmentor, lets keep it that way and just enable PvP.

I'd also like to see dueling activated on PvP. Not sure how the programming would work though. Just make it so same faction can duel but still be attacked by opposing factions.

Lets encourage PvP on the PvP servers.

70 Assassin, 67 Coercer, 40 warden, 34 Bruiser, 34 SK (Venekor PVP) 60 Ranger, 60 Pally (PvE)

Radigazt · 04-05-2007, 11:02 PM

OK, I have no official insight, so what I'm gonna say is more of a guess than anything else. But, I think the reason they're not fixing mentoring (at least not yet) is that they want the same mentoring code for PvE servers as PvP servers, and they want to leave PvE mentored players really super uber. They quickly realized that mentored players PvP'ing were way stronger than any twink could really be at that level, and it wasn't at all fair, so they disabled it.

What they would need to do to fix the mentoring problem would be this: 1) Mentor all the gear down to the Mastercrafted version, so any procs on gear would be changed while mentored to be only those available on the Mastercrafted version. All mitigation, resistances, stats, procs, etc. would go down to the Mastercrafted level of that tier. 2) Reduce health, power, stats, etc., and make sure that all higher level racial bonuses etc. gained higher than the level mentored to would be gone while mentored. 3) Cap the number of AA's someone has while mentored, i.e. if you're mentored to level 30, maybe cap that at 40 AA's, so whatever were the first 40 AA's you chose, those would be what's available to you while mentored down to level 30. 4) Reduce spells/combat arts to only those available at that level ... everything else would be greyed out. But, if you have a higher level version of a spell that's available in that line, then you'd have the stats of that spell reduced to the stats of the one appropriate to that level. So, if you had Malefic Touch (Shadowknight's higher level version of Harm Touch) and were mentored down, you wouldn't have to switch hotkeys or anything, but when you clicked your hotkey for Malefic Touch, it would use the spell for the appropriate level version of that spell, such as Harm Touch.

I don't know how much trouble that would be coding, but I assume it would be significant. Regardless, this would be a different mentoring system than is already in place on the PvE servers. I think most PvE people like the super uberness of mentoring, so they might not be as happy about this nerf to their mentoring system. The other option would be to have two separate codes, one for PvE and a second for PvP ... but I don't think they'll do that.

So, while there are a lot more PvE servers than PvP servers, the PvE is going to continue to come first. I'm still hoping--and advocating--for fixing mentoring ... but we need to be loud and persistent if we're going to convince them to re-implement it correctly. That's my 2 copper pieces.

SweetheartRose · 04-06-2007, 04:39 AM

Why not just make it so that any group with a mentored person gets no faction/status/tokens from PvP but that same group will lose faction, give status, and drop tokens to enemies if said enemy is not also mentored.

Kocia · 04-06-2007, 04:45 AM

Rushed to 70? Nothing to do? Let's go whine on the forum so I can go back and slap around punks in their teens.

No thanks.

Siphar · 04-06-2007, 09:30 AM

Not sure what inspired this genius response? SMILEY maybe you didnt see that i have several characters spread across the level range

"70 Assassin, 67 Coercer, 40 warden, 34 Bruiser, 34 SK (Venekor PVP) 60 Ranger, 60 Pally (PvE)"

Thanks for the other replies though.

Killque · 04-06-2007, 11:16 AM

Be lucky we even have mentoring at all. I do belive EQ2 is the only game where this is possible. All my friends who play WoW are very jelious...

I personaly think making pvp availiable during Mentoring is a very very bad idea.

I wonder if there is some relationship between people who want mentored pvp and people who complain about level locking... hmmm

AbyssalSoul · 04-06-2007, 11:19 AM

How I think mentoring in PVP should work:

1) Could only use gear to the level you are mentored to. For example if you mentor a 32, you could only wear lvl 32 and below gear.

2) Could only use spells to the level you are mentored to. For example if you mentor a 32, you could not use level 33 abilities.

3) They would have to have a fair way of determining hit points and power.

But honestly, I wouldn't want to see mentored PVP. Just my 2 cents.

Bozidar · 04-06-2007, 11:23 AM

Purity ; you make some good points there, i like the idea of the armor and spells. I also don't think mentor pvp is a great idea.. and it doesn't seem the devs do either.

The one problem with the idea is that it'll make it even HARDER for low-level toons to get good gear and spells from the broker, whena lvl 70 pally buys that lvl 29 spell so that he can mentor, or that uber shield... the lvl 29 guy has to suck it up. That aspect kinda sucks, IMO.

AbyssalSoul · 04-06-2007, 11:27 AM

Mentored PVP was really rough when PVP first came out... I know personally my fiance was a wizard and loved to mentor because his higher lvl version of conflagaration did ungodly damage to the poor guys leveling up in wailing caves. And fire ball would one-shot just about everything and everyone mentored. If people complain about level locked lowbie twinks, they have NO clue what it was like with mentored high level characters. It was just ridiculous... of course the fiance had fun one-shotting people (and who wouldn't lol). Very very bad idea to allow mentored pvp I think.

04-06-2007, 09:30 AM	#5
Siphar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,322	Not sure what inspired this genius response? maybe you didnt see that i have several characters spread across the level range "70 Assassin, 67 Coercer, 40 warden, 34 Bruiser, 34 SK (Venekor PVP) 60 Ranger, 60 Pally (PvE)" Thanks for the other replies though.

04-05-2007, 08:58 PM	#1
Siphar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,322	Was it really that bad being able to mentor and PvP? Sure there were more unbalanced battles compared to today, however i'd rather have unbalanced PvP than no PvP. Level locking issues have come up again, i personally feel level locking is fine. Swings and round-abouts.. but lets consider putting back in mentored PvP. Under current rules, you have to wait 30 secs to mentor/unmentor, lets keep it that way and just enable PvP. I'd also like to see dueling activated on PvP. Not sure how the programming would work though. Just make it so same faction can duel but still be attacked by opposing factions. Lets encourage PvP on the PvP servers. 70 Assassin, 67 Coercer, 40 warden, 34 Bruiser, 34 SK (Venekor PVP) 60 Ranger, 60 Pally (PvE)

04-05-2007, 11:02 PM	#2
Radigazt Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 491	OK, I have no official insight, so what I'm gonna say is more of a guess than anything else. But, I think the reason they're not fixing mentoring (at least not yet) is that they want the same mentoring code for PvE servers as PvP servers, and they want to leave PvE mentored players really super uber. They quickly realized that mentored players PvP'ing were way stronger than any twink could really be at that level, and it wasn't at all fair, so they disabled it. What they would need to do to fix the mentoring problem would be this: 1) Mentor all the gear down to the Mastercrafted version, so any procs on gear would be changed while mentored to be only those available on the Mastercrafted version. All mitigation, resistances, stats, procs, etc. would go down to the Mastercrafted level of that tier. 2) Reduce health, power, stats, etc., and make sure that all higher level racial bonuses etc. gained higher than the level mentored to would be gone while mentored. 3) Cap the number of AA's someone has while mentored, i.e. if you're mentored to level 30, maybe cap that at 40 AA's, so whatever were the first 40 AA's you chose, those would be what's available to you while mentored down to level 30. 4) Reduce spells/combat arts to only those available at that level ... everything else would be greyed out. But, if you have a higher level version of a spell that's available in that line, then you'd have the stats of that spell reduced to the stats of the one appropriate to that level. So, if you had Malefic Touch (Shadowknight's higher level version of Harm Touch) and were mentored down, you wouldn't have to switch hotkeys or anything, but when you clicked your hotkey for Malefic Touch, it would use the spell for the appropriate level version of that spell, such as Harm Touch. I don't know how much trouble that would be coding, but I assume it would be significant. Regardless, this would be a different mentoring system than is already in place on the PvE servers. I think most PvE people like the super uberness of mentoring, so they might not be as happy about this nerf to their mentoring system. The other option would be to have two separate codes, one for PvE and a second for PvP ... but I don't think they'll do that. So, while there are a lot more PvE servers than PvP servers, the PvE is going to continue to come first. I'm still hoping--and advocating--for fixing mentoring ... but we need to be loud and persistent if we're going to convince them to re-implement it correctly. That's my 2 copper pieces.

04-06-2007, 04:39 AM	#3
SweetheartRose Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Paasadena, CA Posts: 43	Why not just make it so that any group with a mentored person gets no faction/status/tokens from PvP but that same group will lose faction, give status, and drop tokens to enemies if said enemy is not also mentored.

04-06-2007, 04:45 AM	#4
Kocia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 110	Rushed to 70? Nothing to do? Let's go whine on the forum so I can go back and slap around punks in their teens. No thanks.

04-06-2007, 11:16 AM	#6
Killque Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,112	Be lucky we even have mentoring at all. I do belive EQ2 is the only game where this is possible. All my friends who play WoW are very jelious... I personaly think making pvp availiable during Mentoring is a very very bad idea. I wonder if there is some relationship between people who want mentored pvp and people who complain about level locking... hmmm

04-06-2007, 11:19 AM	#7
AbyssalSoul Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 38	How I think mentoring in PVP should work: 1) Could only use gear to the level you are mentored to. For example if you mentor a 32, you could only wear lvl 32 and below gear. 2) Could only use spells to the level you are mentored to. For example if you mentor a 32, you could not use level 33 abilities. 3) They would have to have a fair way of determining hit points and power. But honestly, I wouldn't want to see mentored PVP. Just my 2 cents.

04-06-2007, 11:23 AM	#8
Bozidar Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,292	Purity ; you make some good points there, i like the idea of the armor and spells. I also don't think mentor pvp is a great idea.. and it doesn't seem the devs do either. The one problem with the idea is that it'll make it even HARDER for low-level toons to get good gear and spells from the broker, whena lvl 70 pally buys that lvl 29 spell so that he can mentor, or that uber shield... the lvl 29 guy has to suck it up. That aspect kinda sucks, IMO.

04-06-2007, 11:27 AM	#9
AbyssalSoul Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 38	Mentored PVP was really rough when PVP first came out... I know personally my fiance was a wizard and loved to mentor because his higher lvl version of conflagaration did ungodly damage to the poor guys leveling up in wailing caves. And fire ball would one-shot just about everything and everyone mentored. If people complain about level locked lowbie twinks, they have NO clue what it was like with mentored high level characters. It was just ridiculous... of course the fiance had fun one-shotting people (and who wouldn't lol). Very very bad idea to allow mentored pvp I think.