LU32 - Gnomish Stilts will no longer work while on horseback. Devs please reconsider.

[Nyyte]

I'm posting this here because I can't post in the In Testing Feedback. The Spring Loaded Gnomish Stilts will no longer work while on horseback. Please DO NOT go live with this nerf.  Most tinkered items are worthless as it is... Stilts are the one of a rare few lower-level tinkered items that aren't worthless.  If this nerf goes live, it basically means only wardens and furys with sow upgrades will use them. I can't think of any logical reason this needs to be taken out (except for maybe RP reasons... but come on... are you telling me I can't get an extra pair and strap them to my horse?) For the most part, I like everything else in LU32, but for the love Brell, please don't do this.

[Norrsken]

It looks fugly when people stilt around on horseback.

[MrWolfie]

What it looks like is irrelevant.

People have wildly differing opinions about what looks good and proper. Gameplay decisions should not be made based on aesthetics because you're bound to upset more people than you'll please. I'm sure the OP is much more concerned about gameplay than he is about fugly bouncing horses.

So am I.

Gameplay > Realism.

[Oxanda]

Don't want this to go live either. Stop, cancel horse, equip boots, jump over the obstacle, summon horse... ridiculous *laughs

[MrWolfie]

I've still yet to see any official word on the speed of mounts when reversing either.

Stop. Unsummon mount. Body pull. Fight. Resummon mount.

Or swapping the rearing animation to another key.

Approach obstacle on horseback. Fail to scale it. Try again. Rear. Try to reverse, dreadfully slowly. Reapproach...

Is the message from developers that we need to "get off our horses"? (and drink our milk )

[Windowlicker]

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

[Norrsken]

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

[Nyyte]

Thanks for moving this to the appropriate forum. RP and aesthetics aside, this would be a terrible imbalance for PVP and would overall be a big negative for game play if this goes live. For example: Fae wardens and furys would get the benefit of SOW, glide/safe fall AND stilts, while every other race and class has to choose either movement bonus OR stilts. When you wear stilts you already make the choice to sacrifice vital stats for jump bonus.  Don't make us sacrifice movement speed as well.

[DobyMT]

Norrsken wrote:

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

No, this is another PvP request coming to our PvE servers.  See, in PvE, super jumping on a horse does nothing to affect gameplay.  On PvP, it certainly does.  This change makes a person choose between running fast, or jumping far.  That doesn't change the leash on a PvE mob, but it does a PvP PC.  Please keep the PvP complaints coming so this game can become MORE of the shell that it has become since in the inception of PvP.

[Aeralik]

DobyMT wrote:

Norrsken wrote:

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

No, this is another PvP request coming to our PvE servers.  See, in PvE, super jumping on a horse does nothing to affect gameplay.  On PvP, it certainly does.  This change makes a person choose between running fast, or jumping far.  That doesn't change the leash on a PvE mob, but it does a PvP PC.  Please keep the PvP complaints coming so this game can become MORE of the shell that it has become since in the inception of PvP.

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

[KerowynnKaotic]

Aeralik wrote:

*snipped*

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

---

*sigh* ..  But, it LOOK so cool on a horse!  

I don't have these but I was watching a character with them on his horse in SS.   And, it was like the horse was doing long jumps.   Truely, made that horse seem magical. 

--

As a side thought .. how about making some Magical Horseshoes?   Guild lvl 70 Horse.   Able to leap small buildings in a single bound.   But, can't run as fast as a speeding bullet .. *shrug* 

Can't have it both ways in this game

[Harpax]

Aeralik wrote:

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

So is this horse only, or does it impact carpets and the hovering platforms as well.  Don't you think they should have some built in glide type capabilties?  They are floating to begin with.

[Haciv]

Aeralik wrote:

DobyMT wrote:

Norrsken wrote:

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

No, this is another PvP request coming to our PvE servers.  See, in PvE, super jumping on a horse does nothing to affect gameplay.  On PvP, it certainly does.  This change makes a person choose between running fast, or jumping far.  That doesn't change the leash on a PvE mob, but it does a PvP PC.  Please keep the PvP complaints coming so this game can become MORE of the shell that it has become since in the inception of PvP.

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

Lame.   What you should do is keep it as-is and tell fae to buy a pair of stilts like everyone else.  It would generate a lil business for tinkerers and keep everyone happy.

[Marin]

Aeralik wrote:

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

Can tinkerers get a recipe for a charm slot item for gnomish horseshoes?

[mellowknees72]

I fully support the gnomish horseshoes idea.  That would be awesome and logical.

I mean...come ON...when in the world would you actually be wearing stilts while riding a horse?  And don't give me any of that "this is a game" stuff - that's the same argument I tried to use when fish used to chase us on land and it didn't fly then.

[DobyMT]

Aeralik wrote:

DobyMT wrote:

Norrsken wrote:

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

No, this is another PvP request coming to our PvE servers.  See, in PvE, super jumping on a horse does nothing to affect gameplay.  On PvP, it certainly does.  This change makes a person choose between running fast, or jumping far.  That doesn't change the leash on a PvE mob, but it does a PvP PC.  Please keep the PvP complaints coming so this game can become MORE of the shell that it has become since in the inception of PvP.

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

So aesthetically speaking, horses are ok going THAT slow backwards, we can still dodge, parry, and riposte on a horse, we can invis and sneak while on a horse, WE take falling damage while on a horse, some horses are spirits, we call them all with a whistle, I mean, I can go on and on about the look and feel of the mounts in the game.  And as was mentioned, Fae druids can have the benefit of everything, increased run speed, comparable to a horse, glide, and stilts?  I don't understand how in a fantasy game, a horse can't get a benefit from a spell from its master.  Consistancy hasn't really been an issue in this game, but I'm not complaining about that.  So why so much concern about those gnomish boots(2 updates in a row) when there are so many other fish to fry?

[DobyMT]

mellowknees72 wrote:

I fully support the gnomish horseshoes idea.  That would be awesome and logical.

I mean...come ON...when in the world would you actually be wearing stilts while riding a horse?  And don't give me any of that "this is a game" stuff - that's the same argument I tried to use when fish used to chase us on land and it didn't fly then.

No more casting spells, healing, having mana, teleporting, dying and reviving, "zoning", fighting anything that doesn't exist in the real world, you can only be a Human, undead don't exist anymore, sending tells across zones, having pets, using flying carpets, or hover pads, no such thing as run speed increase.....

See where I'm going with this?  Its a fantasy game, and if my guy felt like defying earth physics and wearing stilts on a horse, then he should be allowed to.  

[goboy]

Harpax wrote:

Aeralik wrote:

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

So is this horse only, or does it impact carpets and the hovering platforms as well.  Don't you think they should have some built in glide type capabilties?  They are floating to begin with.

It affects carpets so would expect it would impact hovering platforms as well.

BTW, it was a rude suprise on test when I was running along on my carpet and tried to jump that gully with my jumpy boots.  That was how I found out about it heh.

[CoLD MeTaL]

Aeralik wrote:

DobyMT wrote:

Norrsken wrote:

Windowlicker wrote:

You can thank the PVP servers for the horse changes.

No, the ones begging for new, more realistic horse graphics are the ones to blame.

No, this is another PvP request coming to our PvE servers.  See, in PvE, super jumping on a horse does nothing to affect gameplay.  On PvP, it certainly does.  This change makes a person choose between running fast, or jumping far.  That doesn't change the leash on a PvE mob, but it does a PvP PC.  Please keep the PvP complaints coming so this game can become MORE of the shell that it has become since in the inception of PvP.

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

First the slow backing up mounted (slower than I can walk for pete's sake) is just wrong IMO.  How does a carpet even have a 'back'?  If it were NO speed buff on backing, that would be 'ok'

 Second, will my mount not have 'safefall' on my assassin and bruiser?

Gnomish stilts i don't really care about, but the mount backing thing is a pain.

[Pain Divine]

You can't use them while on horseback because... wait for it... HORSES DONT WEAR STILTS.

I mean, come one...

as far as the horse speed backing up? Who cares? Why do you have to face the mob while pulling? You aren't gonig to auto-face until you actually attack... and you can turn auto-face OFF if you want.

[Mareth]

I really liked having a sort of flying carpet :/

[Nyyte]

Aeralik wrote:

Not every change is about pvp and this definitely wasn't.  Once again if we wanted this disabled in pvp we could have attached the same requisite and used an and condition for pvp servers.  The main reason behind the change was twofold.  Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

But once again, something is getting nerfed that actually made game play a little more enjoyable.  Let's look at this a little more logically:  By choosing to use the stilts you choose to sacrifice stats for jump bonus.  This is true across all classes and races.  Here's a solution: Give horses a jump bonus in addition to movement bonus.  It's perfectly logical and balanced.  Have it scalable similar to the movement bonus.  If you want to jump farther, it's going to cost you a little more plat/status.  Horses should be able to jump farther anyway.  What looks silly now is when a horse jumps about 3 feet.

[Spider]

and whens the last time youve EVER seen , or heard of a horse tht can walk on STILTS ? oh thats right they CANt its physicly IMPOSSIBLE

its obvious that youve never had the experiance in life to try out a pair of stilts even the simple no rise well balanced drywalling stilts are VERY difficult to use and require an amazing ammount of agility

while more standard stills well theres a reason u only see them used int eh circus

 a horse doesnt have the phisical cabability to use them not even an animated one in a game so lets try to make a little sence pls

[-Frank-]

If you really wanna throw the realism argument out there, stilts don't make you float. That's just what they're called. The whole concept of stilts on horses is irrelevant since they're not exactly stilts on players either. They just make you float a little while, and don't make you any taller. Personally, I wish they'd continue to work. Bad enough that only 2 classes got SoW upgrades, but now those two classes (and bards too) can still use high speed with the floaty boots, and everyone else gets the shaft unless they're constantly trying to get the additional speed from someone else. All this does is make getting around a little more of a pain, it doesn't actually help the game in any way that I can tell.

[Caliga]

Its funny how everything under the sun gets blamed on pvp.  No one likes to be nerfed but it makes sense, I mean horses can't even back up.  If I can't fight on my horse (even with stat buffs from it, grrrrr) I don't see why other people should get super jump.

[Nyyte]

Spider wrote:

and whens the last time youve EVER seen , or heard of a horse tht can walk on STILTS ? oh thats right they CANt its physicly IMPOSSIBLE

its obvious that youve never had the experiance in life to try out a pair of stilts even the simple no rise well balanced drywalling stilts are VERY difficult to use and require an amazing ammount of agility

while more standard stills well theres a reason u only see them used int eh circus

 a horse doesnt have the phisical cabability to use them not even an animated one in a game so lets try to make a little sence pls

And when was the last time you've ever seen or heard of someone shapshifting into a wolf in real life?  how about a flying carpet?  or just about anything else from the game in real life? Rethink your argument and then try again.

[Iseabeil]

In general, I can understand and accept most changes made, even the ones I dun like myself. What I personally tend to dislike is when alike things go in totally different directions. Oki, my horse can not jump over a cliff anymore, as its obviously not able to use stilts itself, but as long as Im playin a scout or a brawler when riding that horse, the horse mysteriously has very good safe fall skills and wont break a leg from very high falls. So one player effect will rub itself of a mount and another will not (and no, I dun want safe fall disabled when mounted). I can live with the changes, I just fail to see the patterns behind many changes and its a bit unsettling at times to never know where and how it will head next.

[Caliga]

Iseabeil wrote:

In general, I can understand and accept most changes made, even the ones I dun like myself. What I personally tend to dislike is when alike things go in totally different directions. Oki, my horse can not jump over a cliff anymore, as its obviously not able to use stilts itself, but as long as Im playin a scout or a brawler when riding that horse, the horse mysteriously has very good safe fall skills and wont break a leg from very high falls. So one player effect will rub itself of a mount and another will not (and no, I dun want safe fall disabled when mounted). I can live with the changes, I just fail to see the patterns behind many changes and its a bit unsettling at times to never know where and how it will head next.

Might be programming.  Might be no one has thought of it.  But I'm sure now that you've mentioned it, pretty soon it will be gone.  Same as how mystic SoW gets nerfed cause the bards wouldn't stop crying.

[Nyyte]

-Frank- wrote:

... All this does is make getting around a little more of a pain, it doesn't actually help the game in any way that I can tell.

QFT

[MrWolfie]

Aeralik wrote:

Fist it looks kinda silly when the horses jump because these are stilts after all not gnomish horseshoes.  The main reason though is consistency. When a fae gets on a horse, the glide trait disables.  The stilts use the same effect as glide but due to some differences between spells on an item and cast spells it wasnt initially possible to restrict it on the stilts.  We took care of that and now the stilts will disable like fae glide. 

I hate to just re-post what I said earlier, but:  

What it looks like is irrelevant.

People have wildly differing opinions about what looks good and proper. Gameplay decisions should not be made based on aesthetics because you're bound to upset more people than you'll please. I'm sure the OP is much more concerned about gameplay than he is about fugly bouncing horses.

So am I.

Gameplay > Realism.

On that note, perhaps a Fae's glide ability should NOT disable when they're on a horse? Or indeed, as mentioned by a previous poster, perhaps Fae could buy stilts to have their glide ability reactivated while on horseback.

Let's face it, they spent their attribute point on GLIDE, they spent their hard-earned cash (and possibly status too) on a horse. And again, it's an either/or situation. Too many restrictions equals a dour game, imo.

There's more options that taking something away from players (like the nerf to Mystics' SoW enhance to make Bards feel better. That kind of robbing-Peter-to-pay-Paul thinking always leaves people with a bad taste in their mouths. Bards are still not happy, and Mystics are [Removed for Content] off. Well done!)

P.S. GAMEPLAY > REALISM!