Please fix knochback behavior of big mobs (aka Vyemm or Tarinax)

Bremer · 08-07-2006, 05:45 PM

When you fight a mob with knockback you are standing in front of a wall to be not knocked back, of course.

But recently Vyemm or Tarinax developed the extremely annoying behavior.

Eg, Vyemm makes his knockback, makes a 180° turn and is standing in the wall ->behind<- me, although I'm standing directly at the well. How the heck can this giant monster hide hisself in a wall?

And the best thing is his new "special" that he is one or two floors above you after his knockback and you wipe because you can't see that damned mob and so can't avoid his front ae.

When we killed him last week down on the arena lvl we found his dead body above the gate where Corsoleander stands.

Same with Tarinax. We have two tanks mm away from each other, the raid behind Tarinax, Tarinax casts knockback, aggro switches from 1st to 2nd tank and Tarinax makes a 180° turn and wipes the raid with his front ae.

Pleae fix this behavior, it is more then annoying if you could easily kill a mob and only wipe because he makes 180° turns in walls and is suddenly two floors above you.

And by the way, EQ2 is no pinball simulation, so please make mobs like the Bloodbeast not knocking you around like you are in one.

FlintAH · 08-07-2006, 05:52 PM

This is a problem w/ the trash the last cpl of weeks in HoS too. They will do their knockback ae and then suddenly fall through the floor or go into the wall, w/o the tank even moving.

jago quicksilver · 08-09-2006, 01:16 AM

the mobs are allowed to move through the geometry so that people cannot use it to exploit, just a simple repositioning after the knockback should solve the problem.

Wayoff · 08-09-2006, 01:49 AM

working as intended

Bremer · 08-09-2006, 03:28 AM

Yeah, little repositioning, run around so the mob wipes your raid with his front ae and than turns around.

If a mob kicks he is chasing after you, no matter if you moved or not at all. If you didn't move he is chasing ghosts into the wall. It's the same when you walk against a closed door for a few seconds all mobs behind the door will attack you, altough you were never in aggro range.

SOE should really fix this, it sucks if you wipe because of such stupid game mechanics.

Ratty31 · 08-09-2006, 06:26 PM

They should remove knockback untill they can fix mobs from getting inside walls.

Mordacion · 08-09-2006, 06:52 PM

Amen Koenig, amen

Mr. Dawki · 08-09-2006, 06:59 PM

This happens with harla dar as well, the second her ae knockback goes off she jumps behind the tank like she wanted to check out his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or something, we never gave it any thought because we did ok killing her, but on a fight like vyem where that would put you in range of DEATH AE, yeah i see how that could be fixed.

In my opinion i dont think any of the topics in this forum are ever gona get fixed, ive only seen things get worse.

IE:

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion)

CLOUD BUGS

when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!)

CLOUD BUGS

i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now SMILEY

FlintAH · 08-10-2006, 02:26 AM

Yeah when it is harla or trash or something it is no big deal. But when it is vyemm or talendor, it totally [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s you at one point. Maybe we are approaching it wrong somehow, but w/ vyemm at some point in the fight the knockback and the scream of chaos will happen so fast together it is physically impossible to reposition him in time. Same w/ Talendor, knockback, flip, ae adds onto the healers. All in less than a second.

-Arctura- · 08-10-2006, 02:34 AM

Mobs in Ascent of the Awakening x4 (audience with the guardian) are COMPLETELY messed up just like the OP described. mobs go thru the roof, thru walls, vanish into the ground. etc etc.Its really horrible

Grimm79 · 08-11-2006, 11:08 AM

I'd like to comment that repositioning Vyemn doesn't work either, we have been taking him down in the chatty eye room but like said before he now does a 180 on us and winds up in the wall? or way up in corsolander room. When this happend the mt ran from one side of the room to the other but NOTHING happend, except for us wiping because we couldnt see the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing.

And the mobs beig allowed to pass through the geometry so we couldnt exploit it??? what is that about? Sounds more like the mobs are wallhacking SMILEY

Rendoir · 08-11-2006, 12:25 PM

yeah, please fix it, if you put large model mobs in game at least make em work. new raid guild clearing everything else in a zone with no trouble at all and then breaking over and over due to huge mobs swinging in and out of walls = no fun at all.

Dillin · 08-11-2006, 09:43 PM

My only concern about this is when drops get lost in the geometry. THis happened with my guild the last time we did Lab. Luckily, our petition was answered quickly and we were still able to get the drop. Although as most of us know, a speedy response is the exception not the rule.

Since Dev's like people that post a problem and a resolution as well... Would it be possible for named raid mobs to drop loot in a specific place? Like in the middle of the room they are in? Might save some time and frustration for everyone (SOE employees included).

Aral · 08-12-2006, 03:03 AM

Not that it has any chance of being fixed but, awhile back when I noticed this with Vyemm I started paying more attention to mob "chase behavior." What's happening - and I'm not a coder so pardon my inarticulation SMILEY

- is that the mobs server side are chasing where they PREDICT the tank is going to be after the knockback. My best guess at what happens:1. Knockback code triggers. Player (MT) has a vector (velocity, direction) based on the knockback code. 2. Game predicts where tank will be based on it's normal movement prediction formulae, using that knockback vector. 3. Mob chase code begins. "If target outside radius xx, begin chase" based on where the mob "thinks" the tank will be, Vyemm/Tarinax etc is running full speed following that knockback vector. 4. Collision detection occurs, keeping tank from going past wall. But...5. Mob chase code has already placed mob behind wall, so it now updates and mob faces new tank position. From behind. Again I'm not an SOE or game programmer, but it seems like there's a very simple solution here: a short delay between the knockback and the chase code. With a delay in milliseconds to allow the game to update the tank's position (collision detection) before the mob chase procedure begins. Is it not possible to create this delay without allowing kiting/exploits? I can't imagine the game cannot update this faster than human reaction time, thus eliminating the exploit aspect. Someone mentioned just repositioning. That can and does work with most of the mobs, including Vyemm, but there are two problems. The way the camera works, tanks can have a real problem seeing that a large mob has gotten behind them, and have to rely on others to notify. Tanks have enough to do tactically, they should not have to be fudging around with mobs hopping into geometry behind them, it's stupid. In addition, Tarinax is SO large that to "reposition" him out of a wall requires a 100 yard sprint practically, so large is his reach and thus inertia. This is why everyone I know fights him in the water, which has its own annoyances.

Raolador · 08-12-2006, 04:05 AM

Vyemm (for the most part) was working properly last night when we cleared Lab.

Felshades · 08-14-2006, 02:45 AM

last night we tried vyemm.. monk, fd, we wiped. monk gets up, NOWHERE NEAR aggro range of vyemm, ressed a healer. she didnt accept right away, some that revived came back started rezzing.. soon as the person the monk rezzed accepts, vyemm charges her and systematically eats us one by one.i saw him literally teleport all over the zone to get at us. one pull, he was moving at what seemed.. hyperspeed. wings flapping fast like a hummingbird, tail and neck movement sudden and jerky.. kinda like the time lapse videos i saw of eq1 raids.. a full 20 min dragon kill condensed into 5 minutes. THAT IS NOT NORMAL.somethin is forked up with vyemm. i dont knwo what it is, but something is not right.

Pins · 08-14-2006, 02:47 AM

Felshades wrote:
last night we tried vyemm.. monk, fd, we wiped. monk gets up, NOWHERE NEAR aggro range of vyemm, ressed a healer. she didnt accept right away, some that revived came back started rezzing.. soon as the person the monk rezzed accepts, vyemm charges her and systematically eats us one by one.

i saw him literally teleport all over the zone to get at us. one pull, he was moving at what seemed.. hyperspeed. wings flapping fast like a hummingbird, tail and neck movement sudden and jerky.. kinda like the time lapse videos i saw of eq1 raids.. a full 20 min dragon kill condensed into 5 minutes. THAT IS NOT NORMAL.

somethin is forked up with vyemm. i dont knwo what it is, but something is not right.

The dragon sees you ressing people, so it wants to eat you. Just hit revive instead, this is the way it's always been.

Felshades · 08-14-2006, 02:50 AM

pinski.. you didnt get the part where it didnt matter where in the zone this one person rezzed someone.. hell he was trying to rez someone that tried to run back and made it up a few levels and had NO line of sight to vyemm.. vyemm charges as soon as she gets up.that is just not right.

Noaani · 08-14-2006, 08:57 AM

Felshades wrote:
pinski.. you didnt get the part where it didnt matter where in the zone this one person rezzed someone.. hell he was trying to rez someone that tried to run back and made it up a few levels and had NO line of sight to vyemm.. vyemm charges as soon as she gets up.

that is just not right.

In a zone like this, if your raid wipes, just tell everyone to die. If someone has FDed, tell them to get up and die. No one in the raid should revive until EVERYONE is dead. Rezzing in a raid zone is only for during combat, and rezz items from healers are next to useless on raids.

If your going to wipe, make sure the whole raid knows about it, and that they all die, and then revive at the same time.

electricninjasex · 08-14-2006, 12:19 PM

Mr. Dawkins wrote:

IE:

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion)

CLOUD BUGS

when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!)

CLOUD BUGS

i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now

(emphasis added) I went hoarse yelling at my PC from the wipes that caused when soloing.

Mgunner · 08-14-2006, 07:08 PM

electricninjasex wrote:

Mr. Dawkins wrote:

IE:

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further)

CLOUD BUGS

the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion)

CLOUD BUGS

when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!)

CLOUD BUGS

i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now

(emphasis added) I went hoarse yelling at my PC from the wipes that caused when soloing.

I agree. Warping mobs is my biggest issue right now.

08-09-2006, 01:49 AM	#4
Wayoff Server: Permafrost Guild: Defiance Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 49	working as intended __________________

08-09-2006, 06:52 PM	#7
Mordacion Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 102	Amen Koenig, amen __________________

08-11-2006, 11:08 AM	#11
Grimm79 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 52	I'd like to comment that repositioning Vyemn doesn't work either, we have been taking him down in the chatty eye room but like said before he now does a 180 on us and winds up in the wall? or way up in corsolander room. When this happend the mt ran from one side of the room to the other but NOTHING happend, except for us wiping because we couldnt see the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing. And the mobs beig allowed to pass through the geometry so we couldnt exploit it??? what is that about? Sounds more like the mobs are wallhacking __________________ Grimmus 90 Shadow Knight lvl 15 Artisan (I can tie my shoelaces but not pristine)

08-11-2006, 09:43 PM	#13
Dillin Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 401	My only concern about this is when drops get lost in the geometry. THis happened with my guild the last time we did Lab. Luckily, our petition was answered quickly and we were still able to get the drop. Although as most of us know, a speedy response is the exception not the rule. Since Dev's like people that post a problem and a resolution as well... Would it be possible for named raid mobs to drop loot in a specific place? Like in the middle of the room they are in? Might save some time and frustration for everyone (SOE employees included). __________________ Aeonn 90 Dirge Karthes 90 Templar All around bad azz

08-12-2006, 03:03 AM	#14
Aral General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 381	Not that it has any chance of being fixed but, awhile back when I noticed this with Vyemm I started paying more attention to mob "chase behavior." What's happening - and I'm not a coder so pardon my inarticulation - is that the mobs server side are chasing where they PREDICT the tank is going to be after the knockback. My best guess at what happens:1. Knockback code triggers. Player (MT) has a vector (velocity, direction) based on the knockback code. 2. Game predicts where tank will be based on it's normal movement prediction formulae, using that knockback vector. 3. Mob chase code begins. "If target outside radius xx, begin chase" based on where the mob "thinks" the tank will be, Vyemm/Tarinax etc is running full speed following that knockback vector. 4. Collision detection occurs, keeping tank from going past wall. But...5. Mob chase code has already placed mob behind wall, so it now updates and mob faces new tank position. From behind. Again I'm not an SOE or game programmer, but it seems like there's a very simple solution here: a short delay between the knockback and the chase code. With a delay in milliseconds to allow the game to update the tank's position (collision detection) before the mob chase procedure begins. Is it not possible to create this delay without allowing kiting/exploits? I can't imagine the game cannot update this faster than human reaction time, thus eliminating the exploit aspect. Someone mentioned just repositioning. That can and does work with most of the mobs, including Vyemm, but there are two problems. The way the camera works, tanks can have a real problem seeing that a large mob has gotten behind them, and have to rely on others to notify. Tanks have enough to do tactically, they should not have to be fudging around with mobs hopping into geometry behind them, it's stupid. In addition, Tarinax is SO large that to "reposition" him out of a wall requires a 100 yard sprint practically, so large is his reach and thus inertia. This is why everyone I know fights him in the water, which has its own annoyances.

08-07-2006, 05:45 PM	#1
Bremer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,902	When you fight a mob with knockback you are standing in front of a wall to be not knocked back, of course. But recently Vyemm or Tarinax developed the extremely annoying behavior. Eg, Vyemm makes his knockback, makes a 180° turn and is standing in the wall ->behind<- me, although I'm standing directly at the well. How the heck can this giant monster hide hisself in a wall? And the best thing is his new "special" that he is one or two floors above you after his knockback and you wipe because you can't see that damned mob and so can't avoid his front ae. When we killed him last week down on the arena lvl we found his dead body above the gate where Corsoleander stands. Same with Tarinax. We have two tanks mm away from each other, the raid behind Tarinax, Tarinax casts knockback, aggro switches from 1st to 2nd tank and Tarinax makes a 180° turn and wipes the raid with his front ae. Pleae fix this behavior, it is more then annoying if you could easily kill a mob and only wipe because he makes 180° turns in walls and is suddenly two floors above you. And by the way, EQ2 is no pinball simulation, so please make mobs like the Bloodbeast not knocking you around like you are in one.

08-07-2006, 05:52 PM	#2
FlintAH Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 382	This is a problem w/ the trash the last cpl of weeks in HoS too. They will do their knockback ae and then suddenly fall through the floor or go into the wall, w/o the tank even moving.

08-09-2006, 01:16 AM	#3
jago quicksilver Lord Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 306	the mobs are allowed to move through the geometry so that people cannot use it to exploit, just a simple repositioning after the knockback should solve the problem.

08-09-2006, 03:28 AM	#5
Bremer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,902	Yeah, little repositioning, run around so the mob wipes your raid with his front ae and than turns around. If a mob kicks he is chasing after you, no matter if you moved or not at all. If you didn't move he is chasing ghosts into the wall. It's the same when you walk against a closed door for a few seconds all mobs behind the door will attack you, altough you were never in aggro range. SOE should really fix this, it sucks if you wipe because of such stupid game mechanics.

08-09-2006, 06:26 PM	#6
Ratty31 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 351	They should remove knockback untill they can fix mobs from getting inside walls.

08-09-2006, 06:59 PM	#8
Mr. Dawki General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 789	This happens with harla dar as well, the second her ae knockback goes off she jumps behind the tank like she wanted to check out his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] or something, we never gave it any thought because we did ok killing her, but on a fight like vyem where that would put you in range of DEATH AE, yeah i see how that could be fixed. In my opinion i dont think any of the topics in this forum are ever gona get fixed, ive only seen things get worse. IE: CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion) CLOUD BUGS when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!) CLOUD BUGS i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now

08-10-2006, 02:26 AM	#9
FlintAH Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 382	Yeah when it is harla or trash or something it is no big deal. But when it is vyemm or talendor, it totally [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s you at one point. Maybe we are approaching it wrong somehow, but w/ vyemm at some point in the fight the knockback and the scream of chaos will happen so fast together it is physically impossible to reposition him in time. Same w/ Talendor, knockback, flip, ae adds onto the healers. All in less than a second.

08-10-2006, 02:34 AM	#10
-Arctura- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,589	Mobs in Ascent of the Awakening x4 (audience with the guardian) are COMPLETELY messed up just like the OP described. mobs go thru the roof, thru walls, vanish into the ground. etc etc.Its really horrible

08-11-2006, 12:25 PM	#12
Rendoir Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 212	yeah, please fix it, if you put large model mobs in game at least make em work. new raid guild clearing everything else in a zone with no trouble at all and then breaking over and over due to huge mobs swinging in and out of walls = no fun at all.

08-12-2006, 04:05 AM	#15
Raolador Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 33	Vyemm (for the most part) was working properly last night when we cleared Lab.

08-14-2006, 02:45 AM	#16
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	last night we tried vyemm.. monk, fd, we wiped. monk gets up, NOWHERE NEAR aggro range of vyemm, ressed a healer. she didnt accept right away, some that revived came back started rezzing.. soon as the person the monk rezzed accepts, vyemm charges her and systematically eats us one by one.i saw him literally teleport all over the zone to get at us. one pull, he was moving at what seemed.. hyperspeed. wings flapping fast like a hummingbird, tail and neck movement sudden and jerky.. kinda like the time lapse videos i saw of eq1 raids.. a full 20 min dragon kill condensed into 5 minutes. THAT IS NOT NORMAL.somethin is forked up with vyemm. i dont knwo what it is, but something is not right.

08-14-2006, 02:47 AM	#17
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Felshades wrote: last night we tried vyemm.. monk, fd, we wiped. monk gets up, NOWHERE NEAR aggro range of vyemm, ressed a healer. she didnt accept right away, some that revived came back started rezzing.. soon as the person the monk rezzed accepts, vyemm charges her and systematically eats us one by one. i saw him literally teleport all over the zone to get at us. one pull, he was moving at what seemed.. hyperspeed. wings flapping fast like a hummingbird, tail and neck movement sudden and jerky.. kinda like the time lapse videos i saw of eq1 raids.. a full 20 min dragon kill condensed into 5 minutes. THAT IS NOT NORMAL. somethin is forked up with vyemm. i dont knwo what it is, but something is not right. The dragon sees you ressing people, so it wants to eat you. Just hit revive instead, this is the way it's always been. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

08-14-2006, 02:50 AM	#18
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	pinski.. you didnt get the part where it didnt matter where in the zone this one person rezzed someone.. hell he was trying to rez someone that tried to run back and made it up a few levels and had NO line of sight to vyemm.. vyemm charges as soon as she gets up.that is just not right.

08-14-2006, 08:57 AM	#19
Noaani Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,077	Felshades wrote: pinski.. you didnt get the part where it didnt matter where in the zone this one person rezzed someone.. hell he was trying to rez someone that tried to run back and made it up a few levels and had NO line of sight to vyemm.. vyemm charges as soon as she gets up. that is just not right. In a zone like this, if your raid wipes, just tell everyone to die. If someone has FDed, tell them to get up and die. No one in the raid should revive until EVERYONE is dead. Rezzing in a raid zone is only for during combat, and rezz items from healers are next to useless on raids. If your going to wipe, make sure the whole raid knows about it, and that they all die, and then revive at the same time. __________________ The superior man knows what is right. The inferior man knows what will sell. Confucius

08-14-2006, 12:19 PM	#20
electricninjasex Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 413	Mr. Dawkins wrote: IE: CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion) CLOUD BUGS when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!) CLOUD BUGS i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now (emphasis added) I went hoarse yelling at my PC from the wipes that caused when soloing.

08-14-2006, 07:08 PM	#21
Mgunner Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 225	electricninjasex wrote: Mr. Dawkins wrote: IE: CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing vyem (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS ninja fixing tarinax (breaking him further) CLOUD BUGS the problem with flying into HoF from labs (has been going on since the launce of the expansion) CLOUD BUGS when normal everyday mobs are rooted they seem to teliport right beside you ( i never knew dune spiders would learn that!) CLOUD BUGS i know im missing a whole list of them that have been going on for WAY too long, and will never be fixed as long as we continue to line SOE's pockets, but i got to go to work now (emphasis added) I went hoarse yelling at my PC from the wipes that caused when soloing. I agree. Warping mobs is my biggest issue right now. __________________