Instanced Raids ... to be or not to be?

KrayzieK · 08-03-2006, 04:17 PM

NO! Please stop giving us so many instanced raids. This is the mentality I see being utilized: Okay, we oversee and operate an MMO where a bunch of players are supposed to be able to play together. However, since the players seem to be a problem, let's get rid of them! With the way instances work it's not like we get any less lag .... we still get randomly kicked from instances when they crash. Anyways, I'm sick and tired of doing the same instanced raids with a lockout week after week, is it too much to ask for us to get one single contested raid zone that is actually fun? By fun I mean totally the opposite of Temple of Scale or Silent City. Give us Isle of Dread. Give us an island of 12 epic orange boss mobs and 100's of orange epic roamers. We have been gearing up our alts for months now from the instances and we really need something new in order to progress our guilds.

How does everybody else feel about this? Do you want another weekly instance to do over and over again or a new fun live raid zone ... something we have yet to see in this game?

Quicksilver74 · 08-03-2006, 04:44 PM

The only instances I'd like to see from now on are Single Mob instances, like some of the T5 encounters, Zalak, Drayek, MotM... etc. Daily Lockout, High Metal Chest chance... and something quick that you can do every day. Even if it's a 3 day lockout. I like the crab raid in Fallen Dynasty because it is reminiscent of those old raids with it's short lockout timer and the fact that fabled loot is not garaunteed.

I would absoloutey love another Open Raid zone... especially if it's an Overland Raid zone. Many named mobs, and all of them hard.... that woudl be awesome!

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 05:28 PM

Im exactly the opposite. I love the instances because it cuts out on the drama, but lets players have fun and progress at their own pace. Overland "raid" zones will just be camped by 1-2 guilds who can muster a force 24/7. Unless you have absolutely no life, or job, overland raid zones are not for you. 10 years ago, I would have said differently... but 10 years ago I was in college.

I would actually prefer progressive raid zones closer to WoW's instances. When the first boss in a zone is killed, everyone on the raid gets an Instance #, and that instance is "saved" for the next week. This way, you can go in and kill the first boss monday, the second boss tuesday, etc etc. It allows for much more in-depth and much more difficult encounters in an MMO since the whole zone doesnt have to be designed to be completed in a 2-4hr time-frame.

Anyways, open raids and contested mobs are just a recipe for drama... its something I certainly do not look forward to.

W

KrayzieK · 08-03-2006, 05:49 PM

Maybe you are misinterpreting what I am trying to ask. I do not want all raid zones in the future to be contested and open live zones, just maybe 1 or 2. I have no problem with the majority of raid zones being instanced so that people like yourself can be catered to. However, people like me are pretty much sick and tired of all these instances. Is one major contested raid zone really asking for too much? I don't care if they recycled one of the current T7 zones ... bonemire for instance. If they could recycle the zone structure and just turn all the mobs into epics, I would be satisfied. Just imagine having a raid on the first island in Bonemire where you have to clear it in order to gain access to the cloud that flies to the next island. There are huge beautiful overland zones that could really give this game a new outlook for raiders if they would just be utilized. SOE has the right idea as they tried doing it with Temple of Scale ... they recycled the heroic instance and made an epic version. They did the same thing with Ascent of the Awakened. Both of the zones were done terribly though in my opinion. There are 3 mobs all within 3 minutes of eachother in Temple of Scale that are worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and AoA is seriously the most boring and mind-numbing zone in EQ2. Another thing they messed up with is they removed the contested factor of both of these zones yet they never gave us additional contested mobs to compensate for our loss.

All of these instances are fine and dandy I hope the people who prefer instances are satisfied with the amount available. Like I said though, people who like me who would prefer an open zone full of contested epic mobs are left in the dust with no signal from SOE that they are going to do anything about it. I just want to know a simple answer, will this game eventually give us a live raid zone that isn't boring and tedious like temple of scale and ascent of the awakened or not? Recycle some zones and turn them into epic versions please!

Kaiser Sigma · 08-03-2006, 06:22 PM

Just out of curiosity. How many t7 raiding guilds does The Bazaar has?

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 06:26 PM

Look at it from SOE's perspective...

Either:
1) Design a zone for 1% of the 1%... where only a handfull of their playerbase will ever get the chance to enjoy.
2) Design a zone that everyone can enjoy and participate in.

Developer time is finite.

Then ask again, why exactly do you want more contested mobs?

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 06:35 PM

Anariale wrote:
Look at it from SOE's perspective...
Either:
1) Design a zone for 1% of the 1%... where only a handfull of their playerbase will ever get the chance to enjoy.
2) Design a zone that everyone can enjoy and participate in.
Developer time is finite.
Then ask again, why exactly do you want more contested mobs?

First off, you obviously dont have experience raiding t5 when there were a lot of contested. MANY guilds on every server were waiting and watching for them to have a shot at taking them down. Yes most of them failed or the one guild got most of them, but it wasnt just 1% of the raiding population killing them. Contested mobs are fun on many levels that you obviously have yet to reach. Please refrain from commenting on them when you do not have first hand experience with them.

Kaiser Sigma · 08-03-2006, 06:40 PM

Ishboozor wrote:

Contested mobs are fun on many levels that you obviously have yet to reach. Please refrain from commenting on them when you do not have first hand experience with them.

Contested mobs; yes, I agree. Very fun stuff (especially because mobs dropped more than just three fabled pieces, I miss rares). Contested zones, strictly speaking from what I've seen in Everquest 2 as I've never played Everquest 1, so far have been a yawn fest. New contested mobs in the same amounts we had in t5 would be great, I'm not so sure about contested zones with the precedent DoF and KoS have set.

Message Edited by Kaiser Sigma on 08-03-2006 11:41 AM

Scarrlette · 08-03-2006, 06:48 PM

Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please?

J4k · 08-03-2006, 06:50 PM

I dont think SoE's servers can handel open raid instances imo. T6 for example silent city epic area. more then 1 guild there cause a good 5 - 10second lag and lag spikes. Since then lag has gotten much worse with both instances and open areas such as contested. For example if one person zones into and creates a new instance that you are in = lag spike. A whole raid does this = mega lag spike of suckage. more then 2 raids are at a contested = perma 5second spell lag etc. If they somehow managed to take out the lag factore which seems to be progressivly getting worse as expansions go by then maybe this would be somewhat considered a good idea but untill then keep it to instances. little lag spikes are much better then permanent lag through the entire raid.

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 07:11 PM

Thanks for stepping in, Scarlette.

I was around for T5 contested farming. I hated it for the same reason Ive always hated contesteds. My most prevalent memory was being trained multiple times while attempting Vox.

The bottom line is that contested mobs are for a very very small portion of the overall game population. Instances allow the same content for a larger portion of the playerbase without the drama.

W

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 07:12 PM

Scarrlette wrote:Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please?

Ok fair enough.Although someone with no contested raid content experience and no interest in any of it being added to the game in the future is about as off topic in a thread asking if there will ever be a fully contested raid zone added to the game as you can get.Just think, if I had the power to simply delete his post from this thread, then I would have to reply to it and be an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

J4k · 08-03-2006, 07:13 PM

then dont do contested. I personally love contested Racing to a contested with 2 or 3 other guilds = fun. picking your nose and walking to a instance isnt to much fun is it?

Scarrlette · 08-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Ishboozor wrote:

Scarrlette wrote:
Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please?

Ok fair enough.

Although someone with no contested raid content experience and no interest in any of it being added to the game in the future is about as off topic in a thread asking if there will ever be a fully contested raid zone added to the game as you can get.

Just think, if I had the power to simply delete his post from this thread, then I would have to reply to it and be an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

And this is why you aren't a mod! SMILEY

Just make things a lil easier on us and behave and I will be forever indebted to you. SMILEY

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 07:17 PM

Anariale wrote:
The bottom line is that contested mobs are for a very very small portion of the overall game population. Instances allow the same content for a larger portion of the playerbase without the drama.
W

The level 1 tradeskill recipes are for a very very small portion of the player base and are never used for anything except to make the recipe once to level. Yet they still added them in. For most people they dont even go anywhere but one workbench or forge, or whatever, and only make one level 1 recipe of the like 20 or so there are, but they are still there if someone should choose to utilize them.There are 1000000 things in this game that only a small portion of people ever see and an even smaller portion of people ever use. How many people see and use a level 2 master spell for wizards? Far less people than kill contested mobs at the top end of the game. Yet they are still in the game. You have specialy named ranks in your guild, Ghosts of War. Do you know how many people get to make use of those ranks you have named? Far less than people that would make use of a contested raid zone, but thats still there in game and being supported.Quit just picking parts of the game you dont like and saying they shouldnt be included because you dont like them.

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 07:19 PM

Scarrlette wrote:
And this is why you aren't a mod!
Just make things a lil easier on us and behave and I will be forever indebted to you.
Lol what does it matter? Either way its good for you. If Im nice, everybody wins. If I keep being a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about things, Im perma banned next time anyways.Heck, I wouldnt be shocked to find out the minute raijinn gets back Im done anyways :/
Message Edited by Ishboozor on 08-03-2006 08:19 AM

ChaosUndivided · 08-03-2006, 07:26 PM

Ideally, Instanced and Contested content would coexist.

Something of a mix of t5 and t7. With 13-15 Contested Mobs (x2 and x4). 2-3 Daily Instances. Then 4-5 Week Long Instances would be awesome.

ChaosUndivided · 08-03-2006, 07:28 PM

That's not including the starter guild raids either, they would be the stepping stones to the x2's and daily content, which would be stepping stones in terms of gear progression to the long instances, which in turn would progress to the grand daddy x4 contested.

Kaiser Sigma · 08-03-2006, 07:30 PM

ChaosUndivided wrote:

Something of a mix of t5 and t7. With 13-15 Contested Mobs (x2 and x4). 2-3 Daily Instances. Then 4-5 Week Long Instances would be awesome.

If only wishes were fishes. =/

Gaige · 08-03-2006, 07:43 PM

I'm all for contested content, its a lot harder to revive zerg stuff that is in an overland zone.

J4k · 08-03-2006, 07:46 PM

Death Coordination fo sho

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 07:49 PM

I agree, a mix is necessary to have a good game. You want the content to be as available as possible to the largest number of players. In order to do so, you want to balance out your design time on the different aspects of the game. Spending a lot of design time on designing non-instanced raiding zones just seems counter-intuitive. Again, an open raid-zone that only a handful of the playerbase would make full use of, and its no small task for SOE to design new zones.

W

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 07:53 PM

It doesnt have to be a complete new zone. It can be a contested instance. Just how there can be an antonic 1 and 2, there could be Bonemire and Bonemire Epic. When you try zoneing into bonemire you are presented with the chioce of wich zone you want to choose. One is going to be the regular bonemire and one could be filled with epic mobs.It wouldnt even have to be an overland zone. There could be a contested Nest of the Great Egg. No lockout for this instance and it respawns on a 6-8day cycle. It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them.

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 07:55 PM

It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them.

Wow... so thats all they have to do...

/sarcasm

Ishbu · 08-03-2006, 07:57 PM

Anariale wrote:
It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them.
Wow... so thats all they have to do...
/sarcasm

Designing a loot table is not that daunting of a task.

Gaige · 08-03-2006, 07:58 PM

Anariale wrote:

It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them.

Wow... so thats all they have to do...

/sarcasm

It is, pretty much. Use existing art (which always takes the most amount of dev time) and then assign a dev to populate it and itemize it with epic mobs. Wouldn't be that bad.

That is why you see instanced content reusing art and textures - because that is the hardest part of the process. Once the art is done a single dev can populate it and itemize it, prob even add quests if they wanted to, although I feel in a zone of that nature its unnecessary unless its a quest to kill all the mobs.

HomeChicken · 08-03-2006, 08:16 PM

adding loot is the easiest thing to do in the game

take random graphic

add random numbers for stats

add random FT #

violia! you have a peice of raid loot

KrayzieK · 08-03-2006, 08:34 PM

It is true that the zone artwork is what takes up most of the developer's time. Recycling zones is a healthy choice for a game with alot of instances. If you look at TFD, The Antechamber of Fate is a duplicate of a heroic zone. The City of Nizara is also a zone structure recycled multiples times for varying audiences and play styles.

I think the Splitpaw AP did an outstanding job with the concept I am referring to. Acts of War and Brutal Acts of War. The same instance but different difficulty settings and different loot tables. I know some people keep saying that the developers shouldn't be spending their time on stuff that targets such a small portion of the player-base, but that just doesen't make sense. Think about all of the older zones that most people have out-grown by now . They ressurected Cazic Thule and gave us Spirits of the Lost and a world event. They did the same thing with Permafrost and the Icy Diggs. I would like to see Solusek's Eye revamped and our storyline with Nagafen continued and be of epic proportion.

To my knowledge there was supposed to be a more steady amount of adventure packs in the game ... I would take 2 recycled old-world AP instances over a single new one anyday.

Anyways, this is getting a bit off topic. Most importantly I really think there should be live over-world contested zones. You can't say that we are the minority in this case ... if they introduced an epic contested Bonemire the zone would be just as packed with raiders as the normal bonemire is with whoever. The entire "contested" aspect of this game is completely out of whack right now. The encounters are alot more thought-out and interesting that is for sure, but there just aren't enough contested mobs. All we need is one major zone where guilds can progress at their own rate with no lockout and the best part of all ... they can do it all in the same zone together, interacting. That's how an MMO is supposed to feel right? Massively Multiplayer Online? Or is it Massive Mobs Overandoverandoveragain? Saying that they shouldn't make a contested raid zone because of lag is like saying they may as well not make any zones period. Every instance that I know of raid-wise will lag when there are multiple guilds doing it even though they all have their own individual instance.

catweaver · 08-03-2006, 09:45 PM

I know this would potentially add to the lag but wouldn't it be great if there were ways for non-raiders to come in and safely watch? Have enclosed walkways through the zone (underground, in the air, wherever works) that come to a caged area that's entirely enclosed, no way out of it (flag people when they go into that area, they get auto-ported to the zone entrance if they try to get out of the cage).

Non-raiders could watch epic battles - people who couldn't get in on their guild raid that day but still want to watch the action can sit back and enjoy. Maybe more people would catch the raiding bug if they truly knew what it was like to be involved! One way to drum up more support for raiding zones, contested mobs etc. is to enable a way to have a larger audience.

EQ2 is my first mmo and I hear all the stories about open zones that were seriously tough in EQ1 and I'm jealous... I want some of that action, pretty please!

Lubij, Ethereal Legacy
70 Fury

Anariale · 08-03-2006, 09:52 PM

Again, the reason to not make a contested zone isnt because of lag... its because the game experience is only available to 24 people every x-timeframe. If the rewards are going to be worthwhile, thats 24 people every 6-7 days. Im not sure about other servers, but on Permafrost, Contesteds are up for about an hour, tops. Its better to design content in a way that more people can experience it.

Even now we are running out of things to do in T7. You can easily raid everything on a 4-night raiding schedule... possibly 3 if you push it.

Day 1 - Lyceum (2hrs) / HoS (2hrs)

Day 2 - MotAT4 (30 minutes) / Labs (2 hrs) /ToS (1 hr) / AoA (30 minutes) (plus travel time, so *shrug* its a busy night)

Day 3 - DT (2hrs)

Day 4 - ?

Sure you can work on Chel'Drak for the remaining time there... but as a whole, there isnt a lot of raiding content in T7. If the Devs want to go back and revamp old zones with T7 content, that would be wonderful... but encounters arent "easy" to design. They take time.

Oh, but Ill agree, loot is easy... if you have a formula to follow, which I dont think SOE has.

W

08-03-2006, 05:28 PM	#3
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	Im exactly the opposite. I love the instances because it cuts out on the drama, but lets players have fun and progress at their own pace. Overland "raid" zones will just be camped by 1-2 guilds who can muster a force 24/7. Unless you have absolutely no life, or job, overland raid zones are not for you. 10 years ago, I would have said differently... but 10 years ago I was in college. I would actually prefer progressive raid zones closer to WoW's instances. When the first boss in a zone is killed, everyone on the raid gets an Instance #, and that instance is "saved" for the next week. This way, you can go in and kill the first boss monday, the second boss tuesday, etc etc. It allows for much more in-depth and much more difficult encounters in an MMO since the whole zone doesnt have to be designed to be completed in a 2-4hr time-frame. Anyways, open raids and contested mobs are just a recipe for drama... its something I certainly do not look forward to. W __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

08-03-2006, 06:26 PM	#6
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	Look at it from SOE's perspective... Either: 1) Design a zone for 1% of the 1%... where only a handfull of their playerbase will ever get the chance to enjoy. 2) Design a zone that everyone can enjoy and participate in. Developer time is finite. Then ask again, why exactly do you want more contested mobs? __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

08-03-2006, 06:35 PM	#7
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	Anariale wrote: Look at it from SOE's perspective... Either: 1) Design a zone for 1% of the 1%... where only a handfull of their playerbase will ever get the chance to enjoy. 2) Design a zone that everyone can enjoy and participate in. Developer time is finite. Then ask again, why exactly do you want more contested mobs? First off, you obviously dont have experience raiding t5 when there were a lot of contested. MANY guilds on every server were waiting and watching for them to have a shot at taking them down. Yes most of them failed or the one guild got most of them, but it wasnt just 1% of the raiding population killing them. Contested mobs are fun on many levels that you obviously have yet to reach. Please refrain from commenting on them when you do not have first hand experience with them. __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 06:40 PM	#8
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	Ishboozor wrote: Contested mobs are fun on many levels that you obviously have yet to reach. Please refrain from commenting on them when you do not have first hand experience with them. Contested mobs; yes, I agree. Very fun stuff (especially because mobs dropped more than just three fabled pieces, I miss rares). Contested zones, strictly speaking from what I've seen in Everquest 2 as I've never played Everquest 1, so far have been a yawn fest. New contested mobs in the same amounts we had in t5 would be great, I'm not so sure about contested zones with the precedent DoF and KoS have set. Message Edited by Kaiser Sigma on 08-03-2006 11:41 AM

08-03-2006, 06:48 PM	#9
Scarrlette Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 135	Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please? __________________

08-03-2006, 04:17 PM	#1
KrayzieK General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	NO! Please stop giving us so many instanced raids. This is the mentality I see being utilized: Okay, we oversee and operate an MMO where a bunch of players are supposed to be able to play together. However, since the players seem to be a problem, let's get rid of them! With the way instances work it's not like we get any less lag .... we still get randomly kicked from instances when they crash. Anyways, I'm sick and tired of doing the same instanced raids with a lockout week after week, is it too much to ask for us to get one single contested raid zone that is actually fun? By fun I mean totally the opposite of Temple of Scale or Silent City. Give us Isle of Dread. Give us an island of 12 epic orange boss mobs and 100's of orange epic roamers. We have been gearing up our alts for months now from the instances and we really need something new in order to progress our guilds. How does everybody else feel about this? Do you want another weekly instance to do over and over again or a new fun live raid zone ... something we have yet to see in this game?

08-03-2006, 04:44 PM	#2
Quicksilver74 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,640	The only instances I'd like to see from now on are Single Mob instances, like some of the T5 encounters, Zalak, Drayek, MotM... etc. Daily Lockout, High Metal Chest chance... and something quick that you can do every day. Even if it's a 3 day lockout. I like the crab raid in Fallen Dynasty because it is reminiscent of those old raids with it's short lockout timer and the fact that fabled loot is not garaunteed. I would absoloutey love another Open Raid zone... especially if it's an Overland Raid zone. Many named mobs, and all of them hard.... that woudl be awesome!

08-03-2006, 05:49 PM	#4
KrayzieK General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	Maybe you are misinterpreting what I am trying to ask. I do not want all raid zones in the future to be contested and open live zones, just maybe 1 or 2. I have no problem with the majority of raid zones being instanced so that people like yourself can be catered to. However, people like me are pretty much sick and tired of all these instances. Is one major contested raid zone really asking for too much? I don't care if they recycled one of the current T7 zones ... bonemire for instance. If they could recycle the zone structure and just turn all the mobs into epics, I would be satisfied. Just imagine having a raid on the first island in Bonemire where you have to clear it in order to gain access to the cloud that flies to the next island. There are huge beautiful overland zones that could really give this game a new outlook for raiders if they would just be utilized. SOE has the right idea as they tried doing it with Temple of Scale ... they recycled the heroic instance and made an epic version. They did the same thing with Ascent of the Awakened. Both of the zones were done terribly though in my opinion. There are 3 mobs all within 3 minutes of eachother in Temple of Scale that are worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], and AoA is seriously the most boring and mind-numbing zone in EQ2. Another thing they messed up with is they removed the contested factor of both of these zones yet they never gave us additional contested mobs to compensate for our loss. All of these instances are fine and dandy I hope the people who prefer instances are satisfied with the amount available. Like I said though, people who like me who would prefer an open zone full of contested epic mobs are left in the dust with no signal from SOE that they are going to do anything about it. I just want to know a simple answer, will this game eventually give us a live raid zone that isn't boring and tedious like temple of scale and ascent of the awakened or not? Recycle some zones and turn them into epic versions please!

08-03-2006, 06:22 PM	#5
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	Just out of curiosity. How many t7 raiding guilds does The Bazaar has?

08-03-2006, 06:50 PM	#10
J4k Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	I dont think SoE's servers can handel open raid instances imo. T6 for example silent city epic area. more then 1 guild there cause a good 5 - 10second lag and lag spikes. Since then lag has gotten much worse with both instances and open areas such as contested. For example if one person zones into and creates a new instance that you are in = lag spike. A whole raid does this = mega lag spike of suckage. more then 2 raids are at a contested = perma 5second spell lag etc. If they somehow managed to take out the lag factore which seems to be progressivly getting worse as expansions go by then maybe this would be somewhat considered a good idea but untill then keep it to instances. little lag spikes are much better then permanent lag through the entire raid. __________________

08-03-2006, 07:11 PM	#11
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	Thanks for stepping in, Scarlette. I was around for T5 contested farming. I hated it for the same reason Ive always hated contesteds. My most prevalent memory was being trained multiple times while attempting Vox. The bottom line is that contested mobs are for a very very small portion of the overall game population. Instances allow the same content for a larger portion of the playerbase without the drama. W __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

08-03-2006, 07:12 PM	#12
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	Scarrlette wrote:Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please? Ok fair enough.Although someone with no contested raid content experience and no interest in any of it being added to the game in the future is about as off topic in a thread asking if there will ever be a fully contested raid zone added to the game as you can get.Just think, if I had the power to simply delete his post from this thread, then I would have to reply to it and be an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 07:13 PM	#13
J4k Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	then dont do contested. I personally love contested Racing to a contested with 2 or 3 other guilds = fun. picking your nose and walking to a instance isnt to much fun is it? __________________

08-03-2006, 07:17 PM	#14
Scarrlette Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 135	Ishboozor wrote: Scarrlette wrote: Come on Ishboozer..Stay on topic and please stop trying to tick people off. Please? Ok fair enough. Although someone with no contested raid content experience and no interest in any of it being added to the game in the future is about as off topic in a thread asking if there will ever be a fully contested raid zone added to the game as you can get. Just think, if I had the power to simply delete his post from this thread, then I would have to reply to it and be an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. And this is why you aren't a mod! Just make things a lil easier on us and behave and I will be forever indebted to you. __________________

08-03-2006, 07:17 PM	#15
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	Anariale wrote: The bottom line is that contested mobs are for a very very small portion of the overall game population. Instances allow the same content for a larger portion of the playerbase without the drama. W The level 1 tradeskill recipes are for a very very small portion of the player base and are never used for anything except to make the recipe once to level. Yet they still added them in. For most people they dont even go anywhere but one workbench or forge, or whatever, and only make one level 1 recipe of the like 20 or so there are, but they are still there if someone should choose to utilize them.There are 1000000 things in this game that only a small portion of people ever see and an even smaller portion of people ever use. How many people see and use a level 2 master spell for wizards? Far less people than kill contested mobs at the top end of the game. Yet they are still in the game. You have specialy named ranks in your guild, Ghosts of War. Do you know how many people get to make use of those ranks you have named? Far less than people that would make use of a contested raid zone, but thats still there in game and being supported.Quit just picking parts of the game you dont like and saying they shouldnt be included because you dont like them. __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 07:19 PM	#16
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	Scarrlette wrote: And this is why you aren't a mod! Just make things a lil easier on us and behave and I will be forever indebted to you. Lol what does it matter? Either way its good for you. If Im nice, everybody wins. If I keep being a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about things, Im perma banned next time anyways.Heck, I wouldnt be shocked to find out the minute raijinn gets back Im done anyways :/ Message Edited by Ishboozor on 08-03-2006 08:19 AM __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 07:26 PM	#17
ChaosUndivided Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 692	Ideally, Instanced and Contested content would coexist. Something of a mix of t5 and t7. With 13-15 Contested Mobs (x2 and x4). 2-3 Daily Instances. Then 4-5 Week Long Instances would be awesome.

08-03-2006, 07:28 PM	#18
ChaosUndivided Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 692	That's not including the starter guild raids either, they would be the stepping stones to the x2's and daily content, which would be stepping stones in terms of gear progression to the long instances, which in turn would progress to the grand daddy x4 contested.

08-03-2006, 07:30 PM	#19
Kaiser Sigma Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 361	ChaosUndivided wrote: Something of a mix of t5 and t7. With 13-15 Contested Mobs (x2 and x4). 2-3 Daily Instances. Then 4-5 Week Long Instances would be awesome. If only wishes were fishes. =/

08-03-2006, 07:43 PM	#20
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	I'm all for contested content, its a lot harder to revive zerg stuff that is in an overland zone. __________________

08-03-2006, 07:46 PM	#21
J4k Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 288	Death Coordination fo sho __________________

08-03-2006, 07:49 PM	#22
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	I agree, a mix is necessary to have a good game. You want the content to be as available as possible to the largest number of players. In order to do so, you want to balance out your design time on the different aspects of the game. Spending a lot of design time on designing non-instanced raiding zones just seems counter-intuitive. Again, an open raid-zone that only a handful of the playerbase would make full use of, and its no small task for SOE to design new zones. W __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

08-03-2006, 07:53 PM	#23
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	It doesnt have to be a complete new zone. It can be a contested instance. Just how there can be an antonic 1 and 2, there could be Bonemire and Bonemire Epic. When you try zoneing into bonemire you are presented with the chioce of wich zone you want to choose. One is going to be the regular bonemire and one could be filled with epic mobs.It wouldnt even have to be an overland zone. There could be a contested Nest of the Great Egg. No lockout for this instance and it respawns on a 6-8day cycle. It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them. __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 07:55 PM	#24
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them. Wow... so thats all they have to do... /sarcasm __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

08-03-2006, 07:57 PM	#25
Ishbu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 949	Anariale wrote: It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them. Wow... so thats all they have to do... /sarcasm Designing a loot table is not that daunting of a task. __________________ Ishbu!

08-03-2006, 07:58 PM	#26
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Anariale wrote: It would be great and all that needs to be added are mobs/loot tables, so all the work of designing the zone is already done for them. Wow... so thats all they have to do... /sarcasm It is, pretty much. Use existing art (which always takes the most amount of dev time) and then assign a dev to populate it and itemize it with epic mobs. Wouldn't be that bad. That is why you see instanced content reusing art and textures - because that is the hardest part of the process. Once the art is done a single dev can populate it and itemize it, prob even add quests if they wanted to, although I feel in a zone of that nature its unnecessary unless its a quest to kill all the mobs. __________________

08-03-2006, 08:16 PM	#27
HomeChicken Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 259	adding loot is the easiest thing to do in the game take random graphic add random numbers for stats add random FT # violia! you have a peice of raid loot __________________

08-03-2006, 08:34 PM	#28
KrayzieK General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 105	It is true that the zone artwork is what takes up most of the developer's time. Recycling zones is a healthy choice for a game with alot of instances. If you look at TFD, The Antechamber of Fate is a duplicate of a heroic zone. The City of Nizara is also a zone structure recycled multiples times for varying audiences and play styles. I think the Splitpaw AP did an outstanding job with the concept I am referring to. Acts of War and Brutal Acts of War. The same instance but different difficulty settings and different loot tables. I know some people keep saying that the developers shouldn't be spending their time on stuff that targets such a small portion of the player-base, but that just doesen't make sense. Think about all of the older zones that most people have out-grown by now . They ressurected Cazic Thule and gave us Spirits of the Lost and a world event. They did the same thing with Permafrost and the Icy Diggs. I would like to see Solusek's Eye revamped and our storyline with Nagafen continued and be of epic proportion. To my knowledge there was supposed to be a more steady amount of adventure packs in the game ... I would take 2 recycled old-world AP instances over a single new one anyday. Anyways, this is getting a bit off topic. Most importantly I really think there should be live over-world contested zones. You can't say that we are the minority in this case ... if they introduced an epic contested Bonemire the zone would be just as packed with raiders as the normal bonemire is with whoever. The entire "contested" aspect of this game is completely out of whack right now. The encounters are alot more thought-out and interesting that is for sure, but there just aren't enough contested mobs. All we need is one major zone where guilds can progress at their own rate with no lockout and the best part of all ... they can do it all in the same zone together, interacting. That's how an MMO is supposed to feel right? Massively Multiplayer Online? Or is it Massive Mobs Overandoverandoveragain? Saying that they shouldn't make a contested raid zone because of lag is like saying they may as well not make any zones period. Every instance that I know of raid-wise will lag when there are multiple guilds doing it even though they all have their own individual instance.

08-03-2006, 09:45 PM	#29
catweaver Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 139	I know this would potentially add to the lag but wouldn't it be great if there were ways for non-raiders to come in and safely watch? Have enclosed walkways through the zone (underground, in the air, wherever works) that come to a caged area that's entirely enclosed, no way out of it (flag people when they go into that area, they get auto-ported to the zone entrance if they try to get out of the cage). Non-raiders could watch epic battles - people who couldn't get in on their guild raid that day but still want to watch the action can sit back and enjoy. Maybe more people would catch the raiding bug if they truly knew what it was like to be involved! One way to drum up more support for raiding zones, contested mobs etc. is to enable a way to have a larger audience. EQ2 is my first mmo and I hear all the stories about open zones that were seriously tough in EQ1 and I'm jealous... I want some of that action, pretty please! Lubij, Ethereal Legacy 70 Fury

08-03-2006, 09:52 PM	#30
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	Again, the reason to not make a contested zone isnt because of lag... its because the game experience is only available to 24 people every x-timeframe. If the rewards are going to be worthwhile, thats 24 people every 6-7 days. Im not sure about other servers, but on Permafrost, Contesteds are up for about an hour, tops. Its better to design content in a way that more people can experience it. Even now we are running out of things to do in T7. You can easily raid everything on a 4-night raiding schedule... possibly 3 if you push it. Day 1 - Lyceum (2hrs) / HoS (2hrs) Day 2 - MotAT4 (30 minutes) / Labs (2 hrs) /ToS (1 hr) / AoA (30 minutes) (plus travel time, so shrug its a busy night) Day 3 - DT (2hrs) Day 4 - ? Sure you can work on Chel'Drak for the remaining time there... but as a whole, there isnt a lot of raiding content in T7. If the Devs want to go back and revamp old zones with T7 content, that would be wonderful... but encounters arent "easy" to design. They take time. Oh, but Ill agree, loot is easy... if you have a formula to follow, which I dont think SOE has. W __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost