Raid level loot

[Kwoung]

Since no one else started the thread, I will.IMHO, the raid level loot in EQ2 is really poor in both quality and quantity. Granted, we are not hard core raiders, but after 3 months of raiding targets every weekend and never getting an upgrade, I have come to this conclusion and heree my specific beefs:1. Overall quality of loot. 90% of the stuff that drops on our raids is complete garbage, I get better stuff out duoing grind mobs with my wife. Spending hours to work our way to a target with 23 other players and getting mostly adept 1 scrolls or treasured gear that isn't as good as what any of us is wearing already or getting harvesting rares that are the tier below us is completely ridiculous. Now lets talk about the boss mob, who 85% of the time drops the same level of garbage as the trash mobs (can you really call ANY epicx4 mobs trash btw) we killed along the way.2. Overall lack of loot. In EQ1 when we went on a raid, stuff was dropping almost from the get go (maybe an hour in) and it was dropping in quantity. We were not flooded with loot by any means, but by the end of the raid you could count on a good many people having recieved upgrades to their equipment On the off chance we do in fact get a fabeled piece of gear here, it is most likely level 40 (off the level 55 mobs we are killing) and there is only a single piece. What of the 23 other members of the raid, how come they get squat for their contribution? Granted, mobs should not flood the world with loot, but I never walked out of a EQ1 raid where at least 10 of the 50 raiders did not walk away with a MAJOR gear upgrade, many more got minor upgrades and almost EVERYONE got something to make the time they spent worth their while cash or advancement wise (blue diamonds, quest pieces, etc).Anyways, with the current state of affairs, I find raiding in EQ2 to be extremely UNrewarding and a complete waste of my time with the possible exception of the prismatic series we are working on.. as I am at least guarenteed something for my time once we complete that!

[EtoilePirate]

/agree I haven't had time in the last two weeks, but I like raiding.  I like being part of a coordinated force and doing my part.  And I like earning points toward loots.  And I've build up a nice respectable number, over the course of three months in the TSA, and I've spent one point. On a pair of treasured gloves that were equally likely to drop from an Everfrost mob. The one or two Fabled items that have dropped in each raid (most raids, some haven't had any at all) have always been useless to me.  Plate?  Crushing weapons?  Splendid.  I'll just go scout over in the corner; call me when we're /randoming the ebon clusters. Not that I begrudge my lovely raid-mates their fabled loots, because their stuff is sweet and they deserve it.  But it is starting to seem unfair that there have been maybe a dozen pieces of it in all the raids I've been on.  Total.  Since I wsa a wee level 31 in a GL 20 BSV raid.  There should be something to bid raid points on! (Edited to Add: When the changes went in to Cazic-Thule, I ran through it with a group.  I saw more Legendary loots and Master books in an hour there than I've seen, total, in the last five raids I've been on.  So just for comparison.) 

Message Edited by EtoilePB on 11-29-2005 01:27 AM

[Kwoung]

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EtoilePB wrote:
(Edited to Add: When the changes went in to Cazic-Thule, I ran through it with a group.  I saw more Legendary loots and Master books in an hour there than I've seen, total, in the last five raids I've been on.  So just for comparison.) 

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Yeah, most of the fabled loots people have on test have actually come from single group instances if I am not mistaken, how pathetic is that? Go to an easy instance with 5 of your friends for 45 min and walk out with 1 - 2 fabled pieces of level 55 gear. Get 23 of your friends together for an entire day, suffer multiple random deaths and if you are real lucky, walk away with 1 - 2 pieces of fabled level 40 gear to split among the 24 participants... woot!

 

There really needs to be some major adjustments made, I am so tired of wasting my time for hours and hours on end with nothing to show for it.

 

Check this out: http://www.eq2test.com/raids/listmembers.php?s=&o=2.0&filter=none

 

I count like 30 raids over a 3 month period and out of those.. ONLY 9 Fabled items have dropped and most of those are low to mid level 40 items!

 

Edit: I will toss out an example here, Karnors Castle in EQ. That was a 45 min raid, on the way in we would kill 2-5 named mobs, many times getting a rare drop from at least one of them and always getting their common, which for some was generally an upgrade for someone. Then we get to the boss, who would drop 2 pairs of the kunark class pants a large portion of the time and when he didn't, a pretty decent staff for some casters. The EQ2 eqiuvilent in my mind is Epic Angler, an instance in which the trash mobs never drop anything worthwhile to my knowledge and the boss on a really good day, may drop a fabled piece of gear. Bottom line EQ 7 pieces of gear, 3 of which were fabled level. EQ2 possibly one peice of fabled OR 1-2 pieces of complete junk that isn't even wortyh holding onto for a twink.

 

On the long term raids, lets compare VT to Spirits. Gear rained down in VT and out of a 50 person raid, a good quarter to half the raid could count on getting at least a minor upgrade for the trip through, many folks got MAJOR upgrades on the raid. Spirits, maybe 1-2 pieces of fabled for the entire raid and as usual, a ton of crap treasured gear no one needs or wants it is so crummy.

 

Please keep in mind, we all have many slots in which to use gear and there are many different class types to cater to. I am not asking that I should have filled a dozen slots with fabled loot in 3 months of weekend raiding. But sheesh, I would be happy if I could even get 1 piece a month based on my 10-20 hours a month spent trying... and when it drops, it dang well be better than the stuff I loot with my friends in a single group instance!

Message Edited by Kwoung on 11-29-2005 12:32 AM

[Agathorn]

I havent' done much raiding myself.. 2 or 3 only due to my level, but I have to say that i've yet to see anything worthwhile at ALL. Cash loot, nothing more. My Monk is equipped with standard SOLO quest items and other solo drops. Absolutely nothing exceptional, at all. Yet when we took down Ladon the boots he dropped where worse than what I had. And not a single other piece as far as I could tell was an upgrade for anyone on the raid.

[Zindicatt]

OK I am just going to link my post on the EQIITest Registry here.  Basically as you can see, Kwoung and I did some comparison and concluded that raid loots in EQII need to be scale up.   This is my post:

http://www.eq2test.com/viewtopic.php?t=1218

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I feel that currently this is out of balance in EQII.  Based on my own playing experience, more effort and time does not equal to more reward. 

Here are some of the examples:

1. On a 24-people 4 hour raid on old world content, "yet another lvl 43 Adept" is a very typical reward.  In fact it is so typical that I personally have not spent 1 point in getting any item upgrade for three months of raiding.

This also rings true for DoF raid content.  The only difference is that now we are looking at "lvl 53 Adepts".

2. In comparison, Kwoung and I duo'ed through 1 level in Pillar of Flames killing lvl 57-58 heroic encounters.  The drops we got are typically "lvl 59 Adepts" on top of a bracer upgrade from killing a nearby named mob. They are BETTER than what we have seen on typical "Epic Drops".

3. In further comparison, someone (not naming names but you probably know who I am talking about) was soloing in CT and got multiple FABLED drops in one afternoon, giving out upgrades that are better than anything I personally have seen in kiling epics on raids.

There are many other examples I can give but I think my point is clear.

To coordinate a 24-people raid is more effort than duoing or soloing.  The time taken is longer.  The risk of dying is higher.  What I would really like to see is a great increase of Master Chests of all "epic x 2" and "epic x 4" mobs.

Raiding in EQLive was more rewarding because unless we failed to kill any named mobs, we always got some equipment upgrades on raids.  Granted, we could have up to 75 people one raid and we could raid for 8 hours, what I have experienced in EQII still is in no comparison to EQI.  Here only 1 out of 5 raids have I seen anyone walk away happily with an upgrade.

I don't know how live server experience is like.  I don't know if Test is different.  But this imbalance really bugs me and I hope to see some changes.

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Message Edited by Zindicatt on 11-29-200509:21 AM

Message Edited by Zindicatt on 11-29-2005 09:21 AM

[Kwoung]

On a related note to all this... whats up with having to work your way through a slew of x2 content on your way to the x4 stuff? Effectively, we get zero loot off all the mobs we have to kill along the way to our target mobs because they show as "broken encounters" due to us having 4 groups and them being x2.Can this be changed, x2 content isn't exactly a walk in the park even with 4 groups and having to work through hours of this with no chance of loot to make your way to the x4 mob is just frustrating. Let these mobs drop chests or make the entire zone x2 or x4, do not mix them together.

[tesarei]

Well raid loot does seem to be sparce when comparing it to eq1. However compering eq2 to eq1 isnt the measuring stick that should necisarly be used (allthough the loot was nice and did help people want to set up and go on raids). I would have to say that the raids that i have been on the loot as a general rule has not been all that desirable with much of it being called vender trash.  While I don't have a problem getting adept 1 spells these mobs there should be more then one spell for this lvl of mobs(content) unless your getting a master ( ie maybe 3 adept 1 spells or 1 master), I do think incressing the chance of having fabled drops from these Encounters is not going to hurt or posibly making the tresured that is droped at least on par with what you can get solo or in small groups.

on all the raids I have been on there have only been a few things I have wanted (but I suck at randoms hehe)

and that has been the rare harvest drops ( ie ruby, pearls, roots) and a pair of pants ( one that if I make the t6 rare then what I have made is better) so far nothing else has been of interest to me but then I don't realy pay attention to the plate and leather drops or weapons that are not usefull to a caster. Ill still say that i had fun getting togeather and working as a group to to get there (except when listening to a few individuals whine about how poor the loot is and no kwoung it was not you). For me getting there and interacting with those aroung is most of the fun for a raid

 

as far as mixing x2 and x4 well that is kinda a pain as you still have to fight them but if you have a team that can take them out prety fast then its not to bad as your just moving through them. all though to be honest i have never realy like this  single, group, raid x2, x4 designation on mobs as it is realy limiting content in my opinion and relys on developers making a decission on what content we get to see. personaly if it says raid i think it should allow or for any size 2 - 4 groups.  perhaps a 2x mob thats attacked by a group of  2 could posibly  have a different table then a 2x mob that gets taken out by a 3-4 group raid? this way you could still get something but that chance isn't as high. the solo group raid x2 x4 designation is prolly one of my personal biggest pet pevess with eq2 and was one of my defining resons when I originaly took a break from the game. what drew me back was not a change in development ideas but missing friends that i like to play with.

[Kwoung]

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tesarei wrote:

as far as mixing x2 and x4 well that is kinda a pain as you still have to fight them but if you have a team that can take them out prety fast then its not to bad as your just moving through them.

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My thought was not so much of how hard or easy it is to move through them, but more about the loot really. It might go a long ways towards helping with the scarcity of loot if half (or more) of the mobs you were killing were actually going to drop some. To me at least, it is pretty frustrating working through x2 content knowing there is absolutely no chance of loot dropping when just the night before, the exact same mobs we are killing now had dropped a very desireable bracer that every healer on the server was ohhing and ahhing over.

 

Or maybe put in some sort of option that makes it a lot easier to split a x4 raid into 2 x2 raids in order to do the x2 content (and get rewards) and then rejoin into a x4 raid again afterwards, which is really the biggest problem. I think our raids would be a lot more willing to split up and rejoin if it wasn't such a hassle. Coodinating the split and rejoining of a couple groups while surrounded by epic level content, is the things wipes are made of.

[Kaknya]

Or maybe put in some sort of option that makes it a lot easier to split a x4 raid into 2 x2 raids in order to do the x2 content (and get rewards) and then rejoin into a x4 raid again afterwards, which is really the biggest problem.   --Quote for Kwoung..hmm.. that rhymes..    This might take some altering of the raid ui, but my idea would be..The leader of the first group creating a raid would be considered the raid leader. the respective groups falling under him as they are added. allow the raid leader to select the groups within the list. the first group selected would be considered the lead group and any additional groups selected would fall under the first group selected. then the raid leader would then hit a raid split button, effectively splitting or removing those groups from the current raid and in to a raid of thier own with the first selected groups leader as the new raid leader. in a 4 group raid groups 1,2,3 and 4.. perhaps a console entry of /r split 3 2 ?  spliting the 4 group raid where group 3 becomes the lead group, followed by 2, and leaving groups 1 and 4 together. then when finished x2 content.. perhaps a /r merge merging the two raid groups together. kwoung being the leader of the other 2 groups, would recieve a message stating that another raid group wishes to join the raid allowing would then bring in the other two groups at the end of the raid list.     Just a couple of ideas.