Newbie City Quest Changes -- our opinion did not matter

Maroger · 07-13-2006, 06:52 PM

You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content.

It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game.

There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway.

I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!!

Freliant · 07-13-2006, 07:01 PM

I you like living in a static, unchanging world, then by all means, yes, the change was bad... but for the rest of us that actually enjoy a change every now and then, this is a very welcome change. I have multiple toons and I love doing the low level content, and every time a change comes to Norath, its like something actually happened in the game that affected everything, it affects lore, and for those of us that like RPing, things get really interesting. Removing the quests made it so those quest junkies wouldn't feel obligated to do those simple quests just because they are there, and it makes new players less confused when starting out the game.

Overall I think there were many more possitive effects from these changes than there are bad ones.

Simon Snowlock · 07-13-2006, 07:05 PM

Wow. This is the first time SOE has ever made a change despite protests from some players. Why would they ever do such a thing?

Do you know how many people were tired of all those little pointless quests that you couldn't even complete in an organized manner? Probably a lot more than wanted to keep them. Being vocal doesn't give your opinion any extra weight.

Dorien_Lytefoot · 07-13-2006, 07:06 PM

This is the same type of behavior on the part of the Devs that caused me to leave SWG, and it will cause me to leave EQ2 as well.Not because of the content that was changed, but becuase they just don't listen to the paying customers.How do I know that another portion of content that I have invested hours of game time in isn't the next thing on the chopping block.I am a business man in RL and if I do not listen to my customers, I simply lose their business.

Jackula · 07-13-2006, 07:09 PM

I'm with Freliant on this one. I may be in the minority, but that makes it even more important to me to chime in and say I agree with the sentiments he expressed 100%. To those that are unhappy with the change, I hope you took advance notice of the change to heart and did complete all the starter quests you could with your alts before they were removed. I'm a glass is half full persepctive kind of guy and hope the changes help focus players new to the game into a more colorful and aimed questing experience, rather than a plethora of simple and rather mindless questing. I'll take a focused more story driven quest that helps you learn your surroundings over 10 "go deliver this" quests. The true test will be if this is the kind of new content that is added. The revamping of the starter areas leads me to believe it will be. SoE is trying harder than ever imo and I think they do have good intentions for their game.*edit for gud speeling

Message Edited by countjackula on 07-13-2006 01:24 PM

VericSauvari · 07-13-2006, 07:16 PM

this "sony does not listen to us" garbage pisses me off. If i had a dollar for everytime a small small minority of players (probably no more then 5 or 10) complains about something changing after they post a 1 page 6 post thread we would all be rich. Everyone has an opinion but it means jack all in the grand scheme of things. Get used to it and stop playing the ignored wounded minority masses. SOE changes things for the betterment of the GAME not the betterment of a small cabal of players who like the fact that each wall has 1 polygon and 6 textures but in the next LU its moving up to 3 polygons and 24 textures. they cannot keep EVERYONE HAPPY

Message Edited by VericSauvari on 07-13-2006 11:17 AM

Cusashorn · 07-13-2006, 07:20 PM

Hey, if this patch change finally shuts up Innkeeper Jerben Sleepwell once and for all, since his Batwing Crunchies quest was removed from the game a long time ago anyway, then I welcome the change.

Y · 07-13-2006, 07:20 PM

Maroger wrote:
It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game.

No, it demonstrates that SOE has a better idea of what's harmful to the health of the game than you do.As an older player rolling a new alt you know what to expect. As a new player talking to every NPC trying to catch your attention (either by calling out to you or via quest icons over their heads) you'll end up being literally drowned in mostly pointless quests early on. Early quests in particular need to be engaging and rewarding to gain people's interest. You're not going to prove EQ2's worth to new players by requiring them to try and pick the interesting quests with a multitude of "bring item A from B to C, return to B for your reward"-type quests.

Dorien_Lytefoot · 07-13-2006, 07:27 PM

Yax wrote:
Maroger wrote:
It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game.

No, it demonstrates that SOE has a better idea of what's harmful to the health of the game than you do.As an older player rolling a new alt you know what to expect. As a new player talking to every NPC trying to catch your attention (either by calling out to you or via quest icons over their heads) you'll end up being literally drowned in mostly pointless quests early on. Early quests in particular need to be engaging and rewarding to gain people's interest. You're not going to prove EQ2's worth to new players by requiring them to try and pick the interesting quests with a multitude of "bring item A from B to C, return to B for your reward"-type quests.

With regard to the statement I put in red, I wan't you to REALLY think about that.Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did.Do I really need to go on ?????

Ildarus · 07-13-2006, 07:33 PM

Maroger wrote:

You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content.

It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game.

There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway.

I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

who is "our"? Do you mean you and a handful of people. Obviously SOE has more accurate numbers on who wanted what and apparently "our" please were not the majority. Personally I only did a couple of those silly little quests on my newbies and then they got old. I am glad they are putting something new in and getting rid of some clutter.

Terabethia · 07-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Dorien_Lytefoot wrote:

Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did.

Do I really need to go on ?????

What I would like to know is... why does everyone with an opinion automatically assume that everyone agree's with them and they are the mass majority? The fact is, maybe less than 10% of the players actually come to these fourms, and less than that probably post. Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean that 90% of everyone else agree's with you.

Oh, and if you INSIST on claiming that SoE never listens, I invite you to check out this post. It is one of many where they DID listen, but is the most recent I could remember. Enjoy!

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=59505&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Eveningsong · 07-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Have you people complaining even tried starting a new character on Test to see how many quests were removed? There weren't that many imo. I just levelled a toon up to 18 and there were plenty of newb city quests left... ones that take you from one area to another, ones that guide you to learn your own racial area, ones that lead you from the starting areas into the next higher areas to adventure. Ones that give you a piece of armour or a weapon. There is no lack of content for newbies that I could see, and now its not nearly so intimidating for a new player to find that they suddenly have 50 quests in their book and they have no idea where the heck any of the places are to finish them. And gees, nothing is ever written in stone. Just because SOE chose to follow their own instincts and make the changes doesnt mean that they can't (or won't) change them again.

Dorien_Lytefoot · 07-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Ildarus wrote:
Maroger wrote:
You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content.

It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game.

There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway.

I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!!

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!
who is "our"? Do you mean you and a handful of people. Obviously SOE has more accurate numbers on who wanted what and apparently "our" please were not the majority. Personally I only did a couple of those silly little quests on my newbies and then they got old. I am glad they are putting something new in and getting rid of some clutter.

Obviously another player who never lived through any of the debacles in SWG. I beg you not to put that much confidence in SOE to know what the players really want.

Dorien_Lytefoot · 07-13-2006, 07:57 PM

Terabethia wrote:

Dorien_Lytefoot wrote:
Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did.Do I really need to go on ?????

What I would like to know is... why does everyone with an opinion automatically assume that everyone agree's with them and they are the mass majority? The fact is, maybe less than 10% of the players actually come to these fourms, and less than that probably post. Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean that 90% of everyone else agree's with you.

Oh, and if you INSIST on claiming that SoE never listens, I invite you to check out this post. It is one of many where they DID listen, but is the most recent I could remember. Enjoy!

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=59505&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Ok, let me try to explain my position a different way.When the devs begin to remove content from the game it is a very slippery slope. I think you will see that in my posts, I never really complain about the specific content affected during this LU.I am trying to address the bigger issue of the devs removing game content that some players (even if it is in the minority) enjoy. These types of changes set a precedent for the future.It did not HARM the game to leave the quests in. What the quests did do was provide a fun gaming experience to some players (again, regardless of how small a percentage). We ALL pay for the right to enjoy this game regardless of our individual playstyle.Next time, it could be an element of the game that YOU really love that is removed. Do not think for one moment that it can't happen. I hate to keep using SWG as an example, but those now infamous changes did not happen all at once either. Bottom line; Please do not put too much confidence in the Devs to always do what is "best for the game"

NightrunnerX · 07-13-2006, 08:05 PM

I am so sick and tired of hearing people griping and whining about SOE and how they never listen and how they suck just so much. If you hate SOE so much THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Quit complaining and do us all a favor and get the hell out of here. Change is inevitable. Some changes are good, others are bad but basically it all depends on personal preference. The point is, griping about changing one thing because you dont like it makes no sense. The very nature of an MMO lends itself to change. These games constantly evolve. This is something you should have realized before playing the game. If you do not like change then go play Dungeon Siege or something and leave all of us who appreciate change, the good and the bad, in peace.

Etherium · 07-13-2006, 08:05 PM

I wish they had kept them and expressed that desire. What bothers me is that they post to say they want feedback. Then they post about removing the short cut boat rides. There was a lot of negative feedback and no comment from SOE. Then they post about removing quests. Again a segment of the community expressed a comparatively high level of concern, and again no comment from SOE beyond the "we're doing this." I'm not claiming that they did not read the feedback or even consider it. I just think it is demoralizing for those that do take the initiative to respond to their posts about changes to feel as if they have absolutely no voice.

It is their game and they need to do what they feel is best. But I wish there was better communication. (Two way communication that is)

Saihung23 · 07-13-2006, 08:15 PM

The devs do listen to the players...and they will do what they feel is the right thing to do.

Example of them listening: Changing harvestables in TT to T6 rather than T7 since the content there was level 55+. They announced their intentions, listened to the feedback, decided NOT to implement it.

Them going forward to remove these quests doesnt mean they didnt listen to you...it means they didnt agree with you. As I didnt agree with you...as a lot of folks (obviously) didnt agree with you.

Resistance is futile.

Dasein · 07-13-2006, 08:30 PM

I am trying to address the bigger issue of the devs removing game content that some players (even if it is in the minority) enjoy. These types of changes set a precedent for the future.

There's always been a certain level of content change, with some content removed or altered and new content added. This precedent was set far earlier than LU25, but we've not seen any dramatic change, and the addition of new content easily outweighs removal of content.

thepriz · 07-13-2006, 08:33 PM

I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content. So what if you hated all the quests, "DON'T DO THEM THEN!". You are not forced to do anything in the game that you don't like to do. Why take something out of the game that gives more to the game. It made the cities feel alive and that the residents in the city needed help. I don't usually mind change, but I do mind the fact that content has been removed. I do have alts that have not run the quests yet and I will see what damage was done tonight. And comment more tomarrow.

Vulking · 07-13-2006, 09:00 PM

While in creating alts, I never really did alot of these quests. It was nice to know they were there if I so chose to do one. What I want to know, is why they need to be removed at all? What is the harm in just leaving them in?

Add whatever quests you want to make the noobie experience more cohesive. But, a linear game or anything that hints at that is not something I would want. ( EQ2 is not currently linear, but moving in that direction would be bad imo).

I'll Im saying is be careful SoE. I trust you but, please be careful.

Dasein · 07-13-2006, 09:02 PM

I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content.

Why? This is hardly the first time they've removed quests, and they're constantly modifying other content, and adidng new things to do. Content is dynamic.

deathsspite · 07-13-2006, 09:02 PM

Did any of you people whiningread the 2nd post? They wanted to remove worthless quests. If some newbie went around getting his hopes up that he would find an enertaining, interesting quest, witha nice reward! I hated thos quests. I only did them for the slight XP they gave.

Dev's do listen, but the majority comes over the minority. Thats how it works in real life. Maybe you've forgotten that.

Message Edited by deathsspite on 07-13-2006 10:04 AM

Jerr · 07-13-2006, 09:06 PM

Give me a break with the "newbie's were swamped with all the quests." You need to try a different argument as that one is just sad.

I was one of those that responded asking them not to remove any quests-but since they are, I will withold any judgement until I get a chance to run through them.

cheers,

Jerril

Ildarus · 07-13-2006, 09:09 PM

Dorien_Lytefoot wrote:

Ildarus wrote:

Obviously another player who never lived through any of the debacles in SWG. I beg you not to put that much confidence in SOE to know what the players really want.

What you don't seem to get Dorien is that this isn't SWG. So get over it!! Besides you don't really have any rights in what happens to the content in this game or any other game. Sony owns the rights to it, just because you pay a monthly fee doesn't give you a vote in what happens. It basically says that in the EULA every time you log in. You know what things have happened that I didn't like, I got over them and moved on. In the end it ended up working out better for me.

Also, Mr. Dorien I have read other things from players in SWG and from what I can tell, people that were willing to adjust to change are now having more fun than before and the game is still thriving. It is just the people like you that are now complaining about change in this game that seem to keep holding onto their grudge against the devs at SWG. Get over it, it is not worth it. These games are about having fun and change is going to happen. If you don't like it, you can go to a different game and put this one behind you but you can't seem to get over SWG so I am guessing that won't happen.

EDIT: I would also like to add my comment to those that keep saying "what could it hurt to just leave them" and also "If you don't want to do them just don't do them and let others do them that want to". Well obviously you have never heard of "clutter". Do you think that there is unlimited amount of resources at SOE to keep all these quests working and up to date when there are changes made in game that could effect those quests. No there isn't. So when they add more new and interesting quests for these zones, they need to remove some of the "clutter". I for one am glad they are able to take the time to even go back and spend time working on the newbie zones.

Message Edited by Ildarus on 07-13-2006 10:15 AM

swordfel · 07-13-2006, 09:13 PM

thepriz wrote:
I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content. So what if you hated all the quests, "DON'T DO THEM THEN!". You are not forced to do anything in the game that you don't like to do. Why take something out of the game that gives more to the game. It made the cities feel alive and that the residents in the city needed help. I don't usually mind change, but I do mind the fact that content has been removed. I do have alts that have not run the quests yet and I will see what damage was done tonight. And comment more tomarrow.

first of all, this change was made mainly for new players to the game. they would not have enough experience with the game at that point to decide which quests are important and which are not. now, let me make something very clear to everyone that is complaining. listen carefully.

THIS CHANGE WAS MADE TO BENEFIT PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO THE GAME. THIS WAS NOT MADE TO BENEFIT YOU.

so what if they removed a couple of low lvl quests? to anyone who has experience with the game and is making an alt, these quests are pointless anyway.

TO ANYONE WHO IS NEW, HAVING 20 QUESTS THAT TELL YOU TO GO TO SOUTH QEYNOS AND BACK IS JUST STUPID. 15 IS MORE THAN ENOUGH. JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK GOING TO SOUTH QEYNOS AND BACK 20 TIMES IS FUN, DOESNT MEAN THAT EVERYONE DOES.

besides, most of these quests are for people around lvl 10ish. to anyone making an alt, you will get past lvl 10ish long before you have a chance to finish all of these quests, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT GRIND AT ALL.

finally, if you think that SOE is not listening to customer feedback JUST BECAUSE they dont agree with what you think they should do, you are going to be very very dissapointed.

SOE IS NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME. THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY OTHER GOOD MMO COMPANIES. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE CHANGES, THEN EITHER LEAVE THE GAME OR SUCK IT UP AND CONTINUE PLAYING.

P.S. i am in no way saying that every change SOE has made is a good one, and neither am i saying that you should not complain about changes that make no sense, however, when an explanation for a change has been given, the explanation is a good one, and the majority agree with them, do not go around claiming that SOE doesnt listen to its customers.

P.P.S. sorry about the big bold letters, but i felt that some people needed it spelt out in big letters before they would understand.

P.P.P.S. this was not directed to the person who i quoted, i just felt the need to comment on the part that i colored red.

BlackVelve · 07-13-2006, 09:14 PM

I did make a character on test and found it to be a bad thing they removed 97 percent of the quests. I am a bit suprised they made this a priority when there are more pressing things to fix. This was not broken imo. People had the option to delete. The feedback that I have seen on this subject has been a majority of the people want the content in. I don't think it's that people don't want change as some of you are using that as an argument (lame), this was too drastic of a change that didn't make sense for the quest lover.

BlackVelve · 07-13-2006, 09:15 PM

Just say no to big bold letters shouting SMILEY

I don't read them lol.

Dasein · 07-13-2006, 09:19 PM

Another thing to keep in mind is that EoF will be introducing entirely new low-level zones, meaning we are going to see a huge expansion in low level content ina few months, so thinning things out now might be preperation for the expansion.

Also, no one seems to know exactly how many quests were removed. If they simply trimmed a few quests here and there, so what?

Ildarus · 07-13-2006, 09:24 PM

BlackVelvet2 wrote:

I did make a character on test and found it to be a bad thing they removed 97 percent of the quests. I am a bit suprised they made this a priority when there are more pressing things to fix. This was not broken imo. People had the option to delete. The feedback that I have seen on this subject has been a majority of the people want the content in. I don't think it's that people don't want change as some of you are using that as an argument (lame), this was too drastic of a change that didn't make sense for the quest lover.

I don't know why I keep responding to this stuff, but what you wrote is un-realistic. They did not remove 97% of the content. Please show me and everyone else where they say they removed 97% and if they did, the way I understand it, they replaced a lot of it with new content. Also, you said majority of the people want the content in, how do you know this????

OMG, that last statement about too drastic of a change, that one gave me a good laugh. I don't know this for a fact, but I am guessing based on that comment and the date you registered in the forum that you weren't around for LU13 or have you paid much attention to the tradeskill changes of LU24 or you werent around when they changed from the Isle of Refuge being the training area to the Queens Colony and Overlords Outpost being seperate training areas. Those are drastic changes. Removing and replacing some quests in the newbie zone is not a drastic change.

Please go play the game

Message Edited by Ildarus on 07-13-2006 10:26 AM

Ashlian · 07-13-2006, 09:27 PM

I don't think you can quite compare the removal of a few newbie Fed Ex quests in EQ2 to the removal of ENTIRE CLASSES in SWG.....but hey, that could just be me. No arguments about not listening to the playerbase in SWG.....I would absolutely quit playing EQ2 if my class were removed from the game :smileysad: for whatever reason. There simply isn't a reason good enough that they could give me for removing my beloved character that I've had since launch.

It's totally comparing apples and oranges, though.....you're not winning any arguments that way. It's not the same team, even if it is the same company. That's like saying I'm mad with California because Florida is doing major highway construction right now. Completely different parts of the same company! They have nothing to do with each other directly....and I'm sure SWG was an excellent lesson on what NOT to do. Ever. Though I wish they'd learned a few things about what to do right.....I'd love to be able to sit down in a chair. And tailor decorative clothing that isn't the same thing recolored thirty different ways! Maybe after the great model revamp :smileyhappy:

What I would like to know is if the retooled newbie quests are more involving along the lines of the racial questlines? Any comments?

07-13-2006, 07:01 PM	#2
Freliant Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,016	I you like living in a static, unchanging world, then by all means, yes, the change was bad... but for the rest of us that actually enjoy a change every now and then, this is a very welcome change. I have multiple toons and I love doing the low level content, and every time a change comes to Norath, its like something actually happened in the game that affected everything, it affects lore, and for those of us that like RPing, things get really interesting. Removing the quests made it so those quest junkies wouldn't feel obligated to do those simple quests just because they are there, and it makes new players less confused when starting out the game. Overall I think there were many more possitive effects from these changes than there are bad ones. __________________ "Change is inevitable" - AM Sephastus 80 Wizard - Retired Onosphire 80 Guardian- Retired

07-13-2006, 07:16 PM	#6
VericSauvari Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 302	this "sony does not listen to us" garbage pisses me off. If i had a dollar for everytime a small small minority of players (probably no more then 5 or 10) complains about something changing after they post a 1 page 6 post thread we would all be rich. Everyone has an opinion but it means jack all in the grand scheme of things. Get used to it and stop playing the ignored wounded minority masses. SOE changes things for the betterment of the GAME not the betterment of a small cabal of players who like the fact that each wall has 1 polygon and 6 textures but in the next LU its moving up to 3 polygons and 24 textures. they cannot keep EVERYONE HAPPY Message Edited by VericSauvari on 07-13-2006 11:17 AM __________________ (boycott pay-2-pwn (RMT) !

07-13-2006, 07:20 PM	#8
Y General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 141	Maroger wrote: It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game. No, it demonstrates that SOE has a better idea of what's harmful to the health of the game than you do.As an older player rolling a new alt you know what to expect. As a new player talking to every NPC trying to catch your attention (either by calling out to you or via quest icons over their heads) you'll end up being literally drowned in mostly pointless quests early on. Early quests in particular need to be engaging and rewarding to gain people's interest. You're not going to prove EQ2's worth to new players by requiring them to try and pick the interesting quests with a multitude of "bring item A from B to C, return to B for your reward"-type quests. __________________

07-13-2006, 07:27 PM	#9
Dorien_Lytefoot Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 23	Yax wrote: Maroger wrote: It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game. No, it demonstrates that SOE has a better idea of what's harmful to the health of the game than you do.As an older player rolling a new alt you know what to expect. As a new player talking to every NPC trying to catch your attention (either by calling out to you or via quest icons over their heads) you'll end up being literally drowned in mostly pointless quests early on. Early quests in particular need to be engaging and rewarding to gain people's interest. You're not going to prove EQ2's worth to new players by requiring them to try and pick the interesting quests with a multitude of "bring item A from B to C, return to B for your reward"-type quests. With regard to the statement I put in red, I wan't you to REALLY think about that.Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did.Do I really need to go on ?????

07-13-2006, 07:33 PM	#10
Ildarus Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 221	Maroger wrote: You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content. It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game. There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway. I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!! who is "our"? Do you mean you and a handful of people. Obviously SOE has more accurate numbers on who wanted what and apparently "our" please were not the majority. Personally I only did a couple of those silly little quests on my newbies and then they got old. I am glad they are putting something new in and getting rid of some clutter. __________________ Lord Sarron-Level 80 Swashbuckler Serpaw-Level 74 Berserker Simbarth-Level 22 Shadowknight/76 Alchemist

07-13-2006, 06:52 PM	#1
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content. It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game. There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway. I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!!

07-13-2006, 07:05 PM	#3
Simon Snowlock Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 23	Wow. This is the first time SOE has ever made a change despite protests from some players. Why would they ever do such a thing? Do you know how many people were tired of all those little pointless quests that you couldn't even complete in an organized manner? Probably a lot more than wanted to keep them. Being vocal doesn't give your opinion any extra weight.

07-13-2006, 07:06 PM	#4
Dorien_Lytefoot Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 23	This is the same type of behavior on the part of the Devs that caused me to leave SWG, and it will cause me to leave EQ2 as well.Not because of the content that was changed, but becuase they just don't listen to the paying customers.How do I know that another portion of content that I have invested hours of game time in isn't the next thing on the chopping block.I am a business man in RL and if I do not listen to my customers, I simply lose their business.

07-13-2006, 07:09 PM	#5
Jackula Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 257	I'm with Freliant on this one. I may be in the minority, but that makes it even more important to me to chime in and say I agree with the sentiments he expressed 100%. To those that are unhappy with the change, I hope you took advance notice of the change to heart and did complete all the starter quests you could with your alts before they were removed. I'm a glass is half full persepctive kind of guy and hope the changes help focus players new to the game into a more colorful and aimed questing experience, rather than a plethora of simple and rather mindless questing. I'll take a focused more story driven quest that helps you learn your surroundings over 10 "go deliver this" quests. The true test will be if this is the kind of new content that is added. The revamping of the starter areas leads me to believe it will be. SoE is trying harder than ever imo and I think they do have good intentions for their game.*edit for gud speeling Message Edited by countjackula on 07-13-2006 01:24 PM

07-13-2006, 07:20 PM	#7
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Hey, if this patch change finally shuts up Innkeeper Jerben Sleepwell once and for all, since his Batwing Crunchies quest was removed from the game a long time ago anyway, then I welcome the change.

07-13-2006, 07:38 PM	#11
Terabethia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 256	Dorien_Lytefoot wrote: Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did. Do I really need to go on ????? What I would like to know is... why does everyone with an opinion automatically assume that everyone agree's with them and they are the mass majority? The fact is, maybe less than 10% of the players actually come to these fourms, and less than that probably post. Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean that 90% of everyone else agree's with you. Oh, and if you INSIST on claiming that SoE never listens, I invite you to check out this post. It is one of many where they DID listen, but is the most recent I could remember. Enjoy! http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=59505&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

07-13-2006, 07:38 PM	#12
Eveningsong Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,844	Have you people complaining even tried starting a new character on Test to see how many quests were removed? There weren't that many imo. I just levelled a toon up to 18 and there were plenty of newb city quests left... ones that take you from one area to another, ones that guide you to learn your own racial area, ones that lead you from the starting areas into the next higher areas to adventure. Ones that give you a piece of armour or a weapon. There is no lack of content for newbies that I could see, and now its not nearly so intimidating for a new player to find that they suddenly have 50 quests in their book and they have no idea where the heck any of the places are to finish them. And gees, nothing is ever written in stone. Just because SOE chose to follow their own instincts and make the changes doesnt mean that they can't (or won't) change them again.

07-13-2006, 07:38 PM	#13
Dorien_Lytefoot Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 23	Ildarus wrote: Maroger wrote: You will notice in the update notes for LU25 that SOE went right on and took out quests depite our pleas not to remove content. It once again demonstrates that we are wasting time telling SOE that what they are doing is harmful to the game. There was NO HARM done leaving the quests, no matter how trivial they were, in the game. A lot of people liked tham. But just because they wanted to do it and the changes were in the work, they gave us "the finger" and did it anyway. I don't like the way this was done and the fact that no comment was ever made to our arguments and please not to remove content, we never received the courtesy of a reply!! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!! who is "our"? Do you mean you and a handful of people. Obviously SOE has more accurate numbers on who wanted what and apparently "our" please were not the majority. Personally I only did a couple of those silly little quests on my newbies and then they got old. I am glad they are putting something new in and getting rid of some clutter. Obviously another player who never lived through any of the debacles in SWG. I beg you not to put that much confidence in SOE to know what the players really want.

07-13-2006, 07:57 PM	#14
Dorien_Lytefoot Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 23	Terabethia wrote: Dorien_Lytefoot wrote: Thats right, SOE also thought it had a better idea of what was good for SWG than the players did.Do I really need to go on ????? What I would like to know is... why does everyone with an opinion automatically assume that everyone agree's with them and they are the mass majority? The fact is, maybe less than 10% of the players actually come to these fourms, and less than that probably post. Just because you don't like the change doesn't mean that 90% of everyone else agree's with you. Oh, and if you INSIST on claiming that SoE never listens, I invite you to check out this post. It is one of many where they DID listen, but is the most recent I could remember. Enjoy! http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=59505&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 Ok, let me try to explain my position a different way.When the devs begin to remove content from the game it is a very slippery slope. I think you will see that in my posts, I never really complain about the specific content affected during this LU.I am trying to address the bigger issue of the devs removing game content that some players (even if it is in the minority) enjoy. These types of changes set a precedent for the future.It did not HARM the game to leave the quests in. What the quests did do was provide a fun gaming experience to some players (again, regardless of how small a percentage). We ALL pay for the right to enjoy this game regardless of our individual playstyle.Next time, it could be an element of the game that YOU really love that is removed. Do not think for one moment that it can't happen. I hate to keep using SWG as an example, but those now infamous changes did not happen all at once either. Bottom line; Please do not put too much confidence in the Devs to always do what is "best for the game"

07-13-2006, 08:05 PM	#15
NightrunnerX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	I am so sick and tired of hearing people griping and whining about SOE and how they never listen and how they suck just so much. If you hate SOE so much THEN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Quit complaining and do us all a favor and get the hell out of here. Change is inevitable. Some changes are good, others are bad but basically it all depends on personal preference. The point is, griping about changing one thing because you dont like it makes no sense. The very nature of an MMO lends itself to change. These games constantly evolve. This is something you should have realized before playing the game. If you do not like change then go play Dungeon Siege or something and leave all of us who appreciate change, the good and the bad, in peace. __________________ As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy, than to create. Victoria, 80 Ranger, Antonia Bayle Bandages, 50 Fury, Antonia Bayle Balthazor, 75 Shadowknight, Antonia Bayle

07-13-2006, 08:05 PM	#16
Etherium Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 91	I wish they had kept them and expressed that desire. What bothers me is that they post to say they want feedback. Then they post about removing the short cut boat rides. There was a lot of negative feedback and no comment from SOE. Then they post about removing quests. Again a segment of the community expressed a comparatively high level of concern, and again no comment from SOE beyond the "we're doing this." I'm not claiming that they did not read the feedback or even consider it. I just think it is demoralizing for those that do take the initiative to respond to their posts about changes to feel as if they have absolutely no voice. It is their game and they need to do what they feel is best. But I wish there was better communication. (Two way communication that is)

07-13-2006, 08:15 PM	#17
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	The devs do listen to the players...and they will do what they feel is the right thing to do. Example of them listening: Changing harvestables in TT to T6 rather than T7 since the content there was level 55+. They announced their intentions, listened to the feedback, decided NOT to implement it. Them going forward to remove these quests doesnt mean they didnt listen to you...it means they didnt agree with you. As I didnt agree with you...as a lot of folks (obviously) didnt agree with you. Resistance is futile. __________________

07-13-2006, 08:30 PM	#18
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	I am trying to address the bigger issue of the devs removing game content that some players (even if it is in the minority) enjoy. These types of changes set a precedent for the future. There's always been a certain level of content change, with some content removed or altered and new content added. This precedent was set far earlier than LU25, but we've not seen any dramatic change, and the addition of new content easily outweighs removal of content. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

07-13-2006, 08:33 PM	#19
thepriz Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 219	I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content. So what if you hated all the quests, "DON'T DO THEM THEN!". You are not forced to do anything in the game that you don't like to do. Why take something out of the game that gives more to the game. It made the cities feel alive and that the residents in the city needed help. I don't usually mind change, but I do mind the fact that content has been removed. I do have alts that have not run the quests yet and I will see what damage was done tonight. And comment more tomarrow. __________________

07-13-2006, 09:00 PM	#20
Vulking Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 301	While in creating alts, I never really did alot of these quests. It was nice to know they were there if I so chose to do one. What I want to know, is why they need to be removed at all? What is the harm in just leaving them in? Add whatever quests you want to make the noobie experience more cohesive. But, a linear game or anything that hints at that is not something I would want. ( EQ2 is not currently linear, but moving in that direction would be bad imo). I'll Im saying is be careful SoE. I trust you but, please be careful. __________________ Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "I can't shake him!" Red One: "stay on topic.." Red Two: "There too close!.....ahhhhhhghh!!"

07-13-2006, 09:02 PM	#21
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content. Why? This is hardly the first time they've removed quests, and they're constantly modifying other content, and adidng new things to do. Content is dynamic. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

07-13-2006, 09:02 PM	#22
deathsspite Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4	Did any of you people whiningread the 2nd post? They wanted to remove worthless quests. If some newbie went around getting his hopes up that he would find an enertaining, interesting quest, witha nice reward! I hated thos quests. I only did them for the slight XP they gave. Dev's do listen, but the majority comes over the minority. Thats how it works in real life. Maybe you've forgotten that. Message Edited by deathsspite on 07-13-2006 10:04 AM __________________ Currently playing on Vene and moving o Naggy as soon as server transfers are available. Vox... It was okay while it lasted!

07-13-2006, 09:06 PM	#23
Jerr General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 134	Give me a break with the "newbie's were swamped with all the quests." You need to try a different argument as that one is just sad. I was one of those that responded asking them not to remove any quests-but since they are, I will withold any judgement until I get a chance to run through them. cheers, Jerril

07-13-2006, 09:09 PM	#24
Ildarus Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 221	Dorien_Lytefoot wrote: Ildarus wrote: Obviously another player who never lived through any of the debacles in SWG. I beg you not to put that much confidence in SOE to know what the players really want. What you don't seem to get Dorien is that this isn't SWG. So get over it!! Besides you don't really have any rights in what happens to the content in this game or any other game. Sony owns the rights to it, just because you pay a monthly fee doesn't give you a vote in what happens. It basically says that in the EULA every time you log in. You know what things have happened that I didn't like, I got over them and moved on. In the end it ended up working out better for me. Also, Mr. Dorien I have read other things from players in SWG and from what I can tell, people that were willing to adjust to change are now having more fun than before and the game is still thriving. It is just the people like you that are now complaining about change in this game that seem to keep holding onto their grudge against the devs at SWG. Get over it, it is not worth it. These games are about having fun and change is going to happen. If you don't like it, you can go to a different game and put this one behind you but you can't seem to get over SWG so I am guessing that won't happen. EDIT: I would also like to add my comment to those that keep saying "what could it hurt to just leave them" and also "If you don't want to do them just don't do them and let others do them that want to". Well obviously you have never heard of "clutter". Do you think that there is unlimited amount of resources at SOE to keep all these quests working and up to date when there are changes made in game that could effect those quests. No there isn't. So when they add more new and interesting quests for these zones, they need to remove some of the "clutter". I for one am glad they are able to take the time to even go back and spend time working on the newbie zones. Message Edited by Ildarus on 07-13-2006 10:15 AM __________________ Lord Sarron-Level 80 Swashbuckler Serpaw-Level 74 Berserker Simbarth-Level 22 Shadowknight/76 Alchemist

07-13-2006, 09:13 PM	#25
swordfel Lord Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 72	thepriz wrote: I agree and can't believe SOE would remove content. So what if you hated all the quests, "DON'T DO THEM THEN!". You are not forced to do anything in the game that you don't like to do. Why take something out of the game that gives more to the game. It made the cities feel alive and that the residents in the city needed help. I don't usually mind change, but I do mind the fact that content has been removed. I do have alts that have not run the quests yet and I will see what damage was done tonight. And comment more tomarrow. first of all, this change was made mainly for new players to the game. they would not have enough experience with the game at that point to decide which quests are important and which are not. now, let me make something very clear to everyone that is complaining. listen carefully. THIS CHANGE WAS MADE TO BENEFIT PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO THE GAME. THIS WAS NOT MADE TO BENEFIT YOU. so what if they removed a couple of low lvl quests? to anyone who has experience with the game and is making an alt, these quests are pointless anyway. TO ANYONE WHO IS NEW, HAVING 20 QUESTS THAT TELL YOU TO GO TO SOUTH QEYNOS AND BACK IS JUST STUPID. 15 IS MORE THAN ENOUGH. JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK GOING TO SOUTH QEYNOS AND BACK 20 TIMES IS FUN, DOESNT MEAN THAT EVERYONE DOES. besides, most of these quests are for people around lvl 10ish. to anyone making an alt, you will get past lvl 10ish long before you have a chance to finish all of these quests, EVEN IF YOU DO NOT GRIND AT ALL. finally, if you think that SOE is not listening to customer feedback JUST BECAUSE they dont agree with what you think they should do, you are going to be very very dissapointed. SOE IS NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME. THIS HOLDS TRUE FOR ANY OTHER GOOD MMO COMPANIES. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH THE CHANGES, THEN EITHER LEAVE THE GAME OR SUCK IT UP AND CONTINUE PLAYING. P.S. i am in no way saying that every change SOE has made is a good one, and neither am i saying that you should not complain about changes that make no sense, however, when an explanation for a change has been given, the explanation is a good one, and the majority agree with them, do not go around claiming that SOE doesnt listen to its customers. P.P.S. sorry about the big bold letters, but i felt that some people needed it spelt out in big letters before they would understand. P.P.P.S. this was not directed to the person who i quoted, i just felt the need to comment on the part that i colored red. __________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________ Hi, my name is Paper. Nerf Scissors, Rock is fine. __________________________________________________ ___________________________

07-13-2006, 09:14 PM	#26
BlackVelve Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 29	I did make a character on test and found it to be a bad thing they removed 97 percent of the quests. I am a bit suprised they made this a priority when there are more pressing things to fix. This was not broken imo. People had the option to delete. The feedback that I have seen on this subject has been a majority of the people want the content in. I don't think it's that people don't want change as some of you are using that as an argument (lame), this was too drastic of a change that didn't make sense for the quest lover.

07-13-2006, 09:15 PM	#27
BlackVelve Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 29	Just say no to big bold letters shouting I don't read them lol.

07-13-2006, 09:19 PM	#28
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Another thing to keep in mind is that EoF will be introducing entirely new low-level zones, meaning we are going to see a huge expansion in low level content ina few months, so thinning things out now might be preperation for the expansion. Also, no one seems to know exactly how many quests were removed. If they simply trimmed a few quests here and there, so what? __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

07-13-2006, 09:24 PM	#29
Ildarus Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 221	BlackVelvet2 wrote: I did make a character on test and found it to be a bad thing they removed 97 percent of the quests. I am a bit suprised they made this a priority when there are more pressing things to fix. This was not broken imo. People had the option to delete. The feedback that I have seen on this subject has been a majority of the people want the content in. I don't think it's that people don't want change as some of you are using that as an argument (lame), this was too drastic of a change that didn't make sense for the quest lover. I don't know why I keep responding to this stuff, but what you wrote is un-realistic. They did not remove 97% of the content. Please show me and everyone else where they say they removed 97% and if they did, the way I understand it, they replaced a lot of it with new content. Also, you said majority of the people want the content in, how do you know this???? OMG, that last statement about too drastic of a change, that one gave me a good laugh. I don't know this for a fact, but I am guessing based on that comment and the date you registered in the forum that you weren't around for LU13 or have you paid much attention to the tradeskill changes of LU24 or you werent around when they changed from the Isle of Refuge being the training area to the Queens Colony and Overlords Outpost being seperate training areas. Those are drastic changes. Removing and replacing some quests in the newbie zone is not a drastic change. Please go play the game Message Edited by Ildarus on 07-13-2006 10:26 AM __________________ Lord Sarron-Level 80 Swashbuckler Serpaw-Level 74 Berserker Simbarth-Level 22 Shadowknight/76 Alchemist

07-13-2006, 09:27 PM	#30
Ashlian Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 432	I don't think you can quite compare the removal of a few newbie Fed Ex quests in EQ2 to the removal of ENTIRE CLASSES in SWG.....but hey, that could just be me. No arguments about not listening to the playerbase in SWG.....I would absolutely quit playing EQ2 if my class were removed from the game :smileysad: for whatever reason. There simply isn't a reason good enough that they could give me for removing my beloved character that I've had since launch. It's totally comparing apples and oranges, though.....you're not winning any arguments that way. It's not the same team, even if it is the same company. That's like saying I'm mad with California because Florida is doing major highway construction right now. Completely different parts of the same company! They have nothing to do with each other directly....and I'm sure SWG was an excellent lesson on what NOT to do. Ever. Though I wish they'd learned a few things about what to do right.....I'd love to be able to sit down in a chair. And tailor decorative clothing that isn't the same thing recolored thirty different ways! Maybe after the great model revamp :smileyhappy: What I would like to know is if the retooled newbie quests are more involving along the lines of the racial questlines? Any comments? __________________