Since Ranger's aren't allowed shoot on the run...

littleman17 · 06-07-2006, 08:07 AM

Well aparently, soe is nerfing the ranger's only way to survive if they are jumped by a multi mob encounter... As it stands, we are able to use our level 50 skill Storm of Arrows while on the move (1k damage to target and surrounding encounter members). There is absolutely no reason to change this on PvE.. now I can see how this skill would totally own on pvp... but I could have sworn the devs said they would not change pve to balance pvp...

So since we are having every last bit of our ability to use our MAIN skills while moving, I say all skills should be unuseable while moving. That means no more jousting because melee CA would require you to stand perfectly still.

And why are they STILL nerfing rangers? Because as it stands, unless we want to burn through half a stack of arrows a fight, our dps is on the bottom of tier 2... I mean I don't see wizards or warlocks having to pay for each spell they cast... (our arrow making skills are usually making the wrong tier of arrows)

Norrsken · 06-07-2006, 12:23 PM

You know that they revoked that statement about damage tiers?

As for now, its just their vision of what the class should be capable of.

And mages do pay for their dps. Try playing a warlock, and get a crit on one of your top tier AoE dots.

You'll die. Wards and amends are pretty much the only thing that could save you in that situation.

Message Edited by roxer2b on 06-07-2006 01:24 AM

Fle · 06-07-2006, 04:33 PM

I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that.

Pins · 06-07-2006, 04:56 PM

You can shoot on the run, you just can't kite mobs while using your traps and your AoEs. Which is the reason for the change. It's because they don't want kiting to be a viable way to kill mobs. Completely crappy, but that's what they want, and thus that is what is happening.

Marcuzs · 06-07-2006, 05:42 PM

While I don't particularly care for the change its not that big of a deal. If a group attacks us we can still root one of them, back up and fire it to hit them all. As long as your target is far enough away you will still hit the ones right next to you. I hardly even noticed the change while testing the adventure pack.

To the guy who said Rangers aren't in teir 2 dps, your right but thats not exactly what he said is it? He said IF we dont want to spend 2p on arrows by using our skills to the fullest, then we will be teir 2 (he didnt put a cost to it, but thats roughly what I pay).

Message Edited by Marcuzs on 06-07-2006 06:43 AM

Solaran_X · 06-07-2006, 05:53 PM

I wish my Assassin could use any of his Ranged CAs while running...

Rorrak · 06-07-2006, 06:42 PM

Fleet wrote:

I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that.

Many Native American tribes were flat out experts at this and quite deadly while on the run.

- Rorrak

Geakor · 06-07-2006, 06:48 PM

More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class.Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!! Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital.Thanks.

Saihung23 · 06-07-2006, 07:08 PM

Geakor wrote:
More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class.

Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!!

Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital.

Thanks.

Geakor, I am not saying anything about you personally here...but that argument is not very well thought out.

Hrmm...let me go outside and try casting an Ice Comet and the same person, guess what it doesnt work very well does it.

Also, yes people did use Bows on the move before, plus, if your argument about this being about shooting on the run was legit, then why are other lines culling the herd, and selection not being nerfed?

See...here is the thing, perhaps you were not happy seeing a thread complaining about a change, perhaps it irritated you a bit, but guess what you clicked into the thread, you chose to read it...and then you get upset over it...so if you want to beat someone up over it go into a closet and beat the hell out of yourself since it was you that decided to.

Dont get mad at me for taking you to task for using the old "whiner" tag on someone who is not happy with a proposed change.

If you dont like this thread ignore it, but dont come in and throw words around like they mean anything to anyone but you. If this were about an "uber" issue...gee...you'd think we would ask for it to be allowed on the run and increase the damage.

Oh well...have fun on the forums and getting mad at people for posting concerns that they have.

Solaran_X · 06-07-2006, 07:46 PM

I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

KnightOfTheWo · 06-07-2006, 07:58 PM

Solaran_X wrote:
I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced.The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day.

deathtoyou5 · 06-07-2006, 08:00 PM

im an assasin and i can use any of my bow shots on the run!

Solaran_X · 06-07-2006, 08:05 PM

KnightOfTheWord wrote:

Solaran_X wrote:
I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced.

The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day.

Maybe it's just this one Ranger or not - I'm not sure. But I've watched him (L70 Ranger with Adept IIIs/Master Is and Legendary/Fabled gear - he's from a raiding guild on Antonia Bayle that recently broke up, to my understanding) kite The Vornerous Tyrant (L69 ^^^ Heroic) after pulling him from the backside of the Hive with no LOS. I've personally watched him do this many, many times - kiting the mob where the fetidthorns are. At one time, I saw him have almost 20 high-T7 (67+) Master Is on the broker at once.

While not all Rangers are probably able to do it, it doesn't change the fact that it is possible (just like all these people who want Conjurors and Necromancers nerfed into oblivion because of what a handful of the class can do with Adept IIIs/Master Is and all Legendary/Fabled gear). I'm sure using his big Ranged CA is a huge help in killing this mob, but I also know he'll find a way to adapt - we all do.

Personally, I'd much rather see SOE actually fix problems instead of nerfing innocent bystanders because of people crying about another class. I play a Necromancer, and right now I'm getting beat down with a nerf bat wrapped in barbed wire because of what a handful of raiding Necromancers (and Conjurors) can do and in part because of the complaints from the Wizard community drawing the attention of the devs on to my class and Conjurors in specific (and Mages in general).

Geakor · 06-07-2006, 08:22 PM

Saihung23 wrote:
Geakor wrote:
More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class.

Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!!

Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital.

Thanks.
Geakor, I am not saying anything about you personally here...but that argument is not very well thought out.
Hrmm...let me go outside and try casting an Ice Comet and the same person, guess what it doesnt work very well does it.
Also, yes people did use Bows on the move before, plus, if your argument about this being about shooting on the run was legit, then why are other lines culling the herd, and selection not being nerfed?
See...here is the thing, perhaps you were not happy seeing a thread complaining about a change, perhaps it irritated you a bit, but guess what you clicked into the thread, you chose to read it...and then you get upset over it...so if you want to beat someone up over it go into a closet and beat the hell out of yourself since it was you that decided to.
Dont get mad at me for taking you to task for using the old "whiner" tag on someone who is not happy with a proposed change.
If you dont like this thread ignore it, but dont come in and throw words around like they mean anything to anyone but you. If this were about an "uber" issue...gee...you'd think we would ask for it to be allowed on the run and increase the damage.
Oh well...have fun on the forums and getting mad at people for posting concerns that they have.

It is well thought out if you actually think about =DLets see, archery can be associated with RL, meaning I can go outside and shoot a bow and arrow. Fictional, let me go out side and cast magic missle. Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it, butchered that word, ie gravity. To be able to cast a spell one must stand still because it requires their concentration, to be able to shoot a bow properly one must stand still to be able to aim does this not make sense? If not please explain for I hunt, and have used a bow (i have one), it's hard to pull back for one, and it takes time to aim it correctly to be able to hit ANYTHING.Thanks again, but I DO agree with you that you should be able to move and shoot with this skill. I say this because it is a SHOWER OF ARROWS meaning this is a FAF skill (fire and forget)learned that from HALO2's rocket launcher, but that was fire and forget it took no skill to make the kill MWHAHA Ok done

Bledso · 06-07-2006, 08:38 PM

Fleet wrote:

I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that.

Ummm weren't the native americans able to shoot bows from horseback - is that not moving and like running.

Unskilled people running and shooting or using bows and arrows would naturally have a hard time - a class that's to be an expert in ranged bows and arrows should be able to - I think it's called skill.

I can see the trouble of losing this ability since they are also cutting down the root duration. It may have been better to increase the recharge time and instead of damage make it a stun instead of taking away an ability - rain of arrows then would be a last ditch effort to flee to safety or evac instead of a kiting ability.

Just my 2 copper

Geekyone · 06-07-2006, 08:53 PM

Geakor wrote:

Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it,

ROFLMAO

*gets up*

ROFLMAO

Aandien · 06-07-2006, 08:56 PM

running while shooting a bow is significantly different than riding a horse and shooting a bow. For anyone that actually knows how to ride horses at a gallop, know that there upper body really isn't moving all that much, and thus aiming and shooting isn't all that hard. Running, on the other hand, and trying to aim at something to your side or behind you, is significantly harder.

Saihung23 · 06-07-2006, 09:56 PM

Okay...so you really want to pursue the "but you cant do that in real life" argument.

Well lets nerf rangers more unless you skilled hunters out there are shooting 3-5 arrows at once.

This is a fantasy game...FANTASY...if I can accept that there is some cat person running around shooting 5 arrows at once into the rear end of a dog like creature on two legs then I can certainly accept a ranger in said fantasy game shooting on the move.

Plus...there are still ranged ca's that the ranger can use on the move...and as every ranger will tell you a ca that you can use on the move that has a 3 minute recast timer on it is virtually useless if you are trying to kite.

Additionally, for assassins who say "I dont have a ranged ca I can use" I do believe you have one, but even if you didnt, you are assassins, not rangers...you have are more of a master of melee than ranged. However, I couldnt care less if they gave them to you...if they do great. But this isnt about comparing rangers to our evil counterparts is it?

Marcuzs · 06-07-2006, 10:25 PM

Solaran_X wrote:

KnightOfTheWord wrote:

Solaran_X wrote:
I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced.

The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day.

Maybe it's just this one Ranger or not - I'm not sure. But I've watched him (L70 Ranger with Adept IIIs/Master Is and Legendary/Fabled gear - he's from a raiding guild on Antonia Bayle that recently broke up, to my understanding) kite The Vornerous Tyrant (L69 ^^^ Heroic) after pulling him from the backside of the Hive with no LOS. I've personally watched him do this many, many times - kiting the mob where the fetidthorns are. At one time, I saw him have almost 20 high-T7 (67+) Master Is on the broker at once.

While not all Rangers are probably able to do it, it doesn't change the fact that it is possible (just like all these people who want Conjurors and Necromancers nerfed into oblivion because of what a handful of the class can do with Adept IIIs/Master Is and all Legendary/Fabled gear). I'm sure using his big Ranged CA is a huge help in killing this mob, but I also know he'll find a way to adapt - we all do.

Personally, I'd much rather see SOE actually fix problems instead of nerfing innocent bystanders because of people crying about another class. I play a Necromancer, and right now I'm getting beat down with a nerf bat wrapped in barbed wire because of what a handful of raiding Necromancers (and Conjurors) can do and in part because of the complaints from the Wizard community drawing the attention of the devs on to my class and Conjurors in specific (and Mages in general).

This Ranger who kited this named heroic wont have anymore difficulty in continueing to do it after this change. Why? Because a skill that is on a 3 min timer is hardly going to impact this fight. What will likely hurt is the reduction in our trap root time and the loss of the stun from snipershot. (I can only assume the Ranger pulled with his no line of sight shot, back up over trap then got into invis and hit with snipershot, which would stun for 4 sec and then get a couple more shots off before kiting backwords, which can be a pain in the [Removed for Content])

Crychtonn · 06-07-2006, 10:51 PM

Solaran_X wrote:
I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

This statement is just plain ignorant. Kiting a mob and keeping it at distance with the run speed mobs have takes alot of skill. Along with awareness of your surroundings and movements of other mobs in the area. It takes alot of skill and a little luck to become a good kiter. If you want easy and low risk go with a wizard. Root and nuke is just a more slow paced way to kite and requires alot less skill.

As for the ranger that kite Vorenous who gives a crap. I know a class that can solo every single named in the bonemire outside of the contested. And a crap load of other classes can solo various but not all of the named there. But all you care about is one ranger and one named ?? You have to be kidding me. And if you think this change will make him change one bit of his strat on killing it your even more ignorant. The skill has a THREE minute recast on it. That means he's using it Once per fight.

And I've seen you in other thread complain about the rangers skill that doesn't require LoS and this ranger that kites Vorenous. My question to you is how is this one skill that doesn't require LoS any more powerfull then your Necro's ability to send in and pet pull a mob from long distance and without LoS. FYI I have a conjuror and target mobs, move and then pull without LoS all the time so don't try and give me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that you can't do it. That ranger has to go down and grab the target then move just the same as you would.

PS - And trying to talk down to the ranger community about your necro being beat down with a nerf bat covered in barbwire is just dumb. The ranger community already got hit with that bat over a month ago and are still getting even more hits. The nerf to summoners is bad but not near as bad is what happened and is continuing to happen to rangers. And remember I play both at L70 so I know from experience.

Message Edited by Crychtonn on 06-07-2006 11:55 AM

Geakor · 06-07-2006, 11:34 PM

Geekyone wrote:
Geakor wrote:

Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it,

ROFLMAO
*gets up*
ROFLMAO

Notice after that I said I butchered the word. I didn't claim to be the spelling champion, matter of fact I can't spell for poop. So "ROFL" all you want I am sure you have miss spelt pleanty of things, and I wasn't about to open word to check the spelling.

Saihung23 · 06-07-2006, 11:40 PM

Dont let that bother you, everyone mispells something every now and then...everyone is human behind the keyboard.

We all understood what you meant (lol, maybe I didnt agree..but anyway)...and thats what is important. Personally I find anyone making fun of someone's spelling to be a bit on the low side...it just shouldnt happen.

So, please dont ever refrain from sharing your thoughts simply because someone brings up spelling mistakes that you yourself point out.

Haavo · 06-07-2006, 11:42 PM

Solaran_X wrote:
I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull.

Saihung23 · 06-07-2006, 11:46 PM

Haavokk wrote:

Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull.

/agreed

Assassins can use a ca, it IS from behind and stealthed...no worry of that being nerfed SMILEY

and it is not worth the time nor effort to kite even with this ca being on the move....effort+time does not equal what you get out of it.

This change CANT be about kiting...if it is, then it is a stupid change.

Haavo · 06-08-2006, 12:00 AM

Saihung23 wrote:

Haavokk wrote:
Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull.

/agreed

Assassins can use a ca, it IS from behind and stealthed...no worry of that being nerfed

and it is not worth the time nor effort to kite even with this ca being on the move....effort+time does not equal what you get out of it.

This change CANT be about kiting...if it is, then it is a stupid change.

Probably in regards to pvp kiting. The devs want to turn the ranger into a slightly lower dps wizard in chain. I believe the only ranged CAs that should be used while running should be behind and flanked, to catch the runners.

Saihung23 · 06-08-2006, 12:08 AM

On PvP I agree...100% I mean, that makes total sense to me...

On PvE, changes should not be made because of PvP...they stated it would be that way and if it isnt I would like to know.

I may not like or agree with all changes, but it is much easier to accept changes when they are announced like other changes and given a reason.

With all the stun changes and root changes and the change to PBS :smileymad: I dont like them but they have given reason for them....and I understand the reasons...I may not like the changes but I am willing to be patient and deal with it. If it results in serious issues solo'ing and what not then I may make my voice heard....

But I dont understand this change, I dont agree with it, and I would like to see some consistency in how they are presenting these changes to the class involved. Hell...this change will be easier to take than the rest of LU24 but it hasnt been explained.

Gorl · 06-08-2006, 01:49 AM

Makes perfect since to me... In order to make that killer shot, a ranger need to stop and aim...Do not worry, you'll get over it... I know since the same happened to my class... 2 lines were changed to not being able to cast while on the run.. B!tch all you want, it makes me smile.BTW, i hate rangers...

Message Edited by Gorlim on 06-07-2006 02:50 PM

TaleraRis · 06-08-2006, 02:15 AM

Haavokk wrote:
Probably in regards to pvp kiting. The devs want to turn the ranger into a slightly lower dps wizard in chain. I believe the only ranged CAs that should be used while running should be behind and flanked, to catch the runners.

We have CAs now that we have to be in stealth or behind or even both and we can't cast them on the run. The discrepancies between which lines we can and which lines we can't follow no logical reasoning or pattern.

ke'la · 06-08-2006, 03:52 AM

Bledso wrote:

Fleet wrote:

I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that.

Ummm weren't the native americans able to shoot bows from horseback - is that not moving and like running.

Unskilled people running and shooting or using bows and arrows would naturally have a hard time - a class that's to be an expert in ranged bows and arrows should be able to - I think it's called skill.

I can see the trouble of losing this ability since they are also cutting down the root duration. It may have been better to increase the recharge time and instead of damage make it a stun instead of taking away an ability - rain of arrows then would be a last ditch effort to flee to safety or evac instead of a kiting ability.

Just my 2 copper

Horse Archers, both the American Indains and Mongoles of Asia, use SHORT BOWS at a range of less then 10m, basicly they used a Bow instead of a throwing Spear. So if you want to beable to move and shoot your bow you have to a) have a short bow equiped and b) use it at ranges closer then 15m. If you use the Brittish Long bow you CAN NOT use that on the Move heck even the best archers could bearly get them pulled to full Draw befor having to release the string.

Crychtonn · 06-08-2006, 04:14 AM

This and the other threads like it are just becoming amusement now. Every other class and their brother all want to just pop in and toss down the Reality bit. Completely ignoring other game mechanics and facts. Wonder how their classes would pass on this Reality stick they like to toss around.

06-07-2006, 08:07 AM	#1
littleman17 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 675	Well aparently, soe is nerfing the ranger's only way to survive if they are jumped by a multi mob encounter... As it stands, we are able to use our level 50 skill Storm of Arrows while on the move (1k damage to target and surrounding encounter members). There is absolutely no reason to change this on PvE.. now I can see how this skill would totally own on pvp... but I could have sworn the devs said they would not change pve to balance pvp... So since we are having every last bit of our ability to use our MAIN skills while moving, I say all skills should be unuseable while moving. That means no more jousting because melee CA would require you to stand perfectly still. And why are they STILL nerfing rangers? Because as it stands, unless we want to burn through half a stack of arrows a fight, our dps is on the bottom of tier 2... I mean I don't see wizards or warlocks having to pay for each spell they cast... (our arrow making skills are usually making the wrong tier of arrows) __________________ Faynar: Level 71 Ranger Daynar: Level 57 Bruiser Tulnar: Level 61 Necromancer Kulnar: Level 50 Templar Bronar: Level 43 Paladin Vronar: Level 40 Defiler Everfrost FTW!

06-07-2006, 12:23 PM	#2
Norrsken Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,450	You know that they revoked that statement about damage tiers? As for now, its just their vision of what the class should be capable of. And mages do pay for their dps. Try playing a warlock, and get a crit on one of your top tier AoE dots. You'll die. Wards and amends are pretty much the only thing that could save you in that situation. Message Edited by roxer2b on 06-07-2006 01:24 AM __________________

06-07-2006, 04:56 PM	#4
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	You can shoot on the run, you just can't kite mobs while using your traps and your AoEs. Which is the reason for the change. It's because they don't want kiting to be a viable way to kill mobs. Completely crappy, but that's what they want, and thus that is what is happening. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

06-07-2006, 05:42 PM	#5
Marcuzs Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 164	While I don't particularly care for the change its not that big of a deal. If a group attacks us we can still root one of them, back up and fire it to hit them all. As long as your target is far enough away you will still hit the ones right next to you. I hardly even noticed the change while testing the adventure pack. To the guy who said Rangers aren't in teir 2 dps, your right but thats not exactly what he said is it? He said IF we dont want to spend 2p on arrows by using our skills to the fullest, then we will be teir 2 (he didnt put a cost to it, but thats roughly what I pay). Message Edited by Marcuzs on 06-07-2006 06:43 AM __________________

06-07-2006, 06:42 PM	#7
Rorrak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 103	Fleet wrote: I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that. Many Native American tribes were flat out experts at this and quite deadly while on the run. - Rorrak __________________

06-07-2006, 04:33 PM	#3
Fle General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 123	I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that.

06-07-2006, 05:53 PM	#6
Solaran_X Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 396	I wish my Assassin could use any of his Ranged CAs while running...

06-07-2006, 06:48 PM	#8
Geakor Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 79	More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class.Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!! Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital.Thanks. __________________

06-07-2006, 07:08 PM	#9
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	Geakor wrote: More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class. Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!! Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital. Thanks. Geakor, I am not saying anything about you personally here...but that argument is not very well thought out. Hrmm...let me go outside and try casting an Ice Comet and the same person, guess what it doesnt work very well does it. Also, yes people did use Bows on the move before, plus, if your argument about this being about shooting on the run was legit, then why are other lines culling the herd, and selection not being nerfed? See...here is the thing, perhaps you were not happy seeing a thread complaining about a change, perhaps it irritated you a bit, but guess what you clicked into the thread, you chose to read it...and then you get upset over it...so if you want to beat someone up over it go into a closet and beat the hell out of yourself since it was you that decided to. Dont get mad at me for taking you to task for using the old "whiner" tag on someone who is not happy with a proposed change. If you dont like this thread ignore it, but dont come in and throw words around like they mean anything to anyone but you. If this were about an "uber" issue...gee...you'd think we would ask for it to be allowed on the run and increase the damage. Oh well...have fun on the forums and getting mad at people for posting concerns that they have. __________________

06-07-2006, 07:46 PM	#10
Solaran_X Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 396	I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying.

06-07-2006, 07:58 PM	#11
KnightOfTheWo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 304	Solaran_X wrote: I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying. Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced.The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day. __________________

06-07-2006, 08:00 PM	#12
deathtoyou5 Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 114	im an assasin and i can use any of my bow shots on the run!

06-07-2006, 08:05 PM	#13
Solaran_X Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 396	KnightOfTheWord wrote: Solaran_X wrote: I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying. Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced. The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day. Maybe it's just this one Ranger or not - I'm not sure. But I've watched him (L70 Ranger with Adept IIIs/Master Is and Legendary/Fabled gear - he's from a raiding guild on Antonia Bayle that recently broke up, to my understanding) kite The Vornerous Tyrant (L69 ^^^ Heroic) after pulling him from the backside of the Hive with no LOS. I've personally watched him do this many, many times - kiting the mob where the fetidthorns are. At one time, I saw him have almost 20 high-T7 (67+) Master Is on the broker at once. While not all Rangers are probably able to do it, it doesn't change the fact that it is possible (just like all these people who want Conjurors and Necromancers nerfed into oblivion because of what a handful of the class can do with Adept IIIs/Master Is and all Legendary/Fabled gear). I'm sure using his big Ranged CA is a huge help in killing this mob, but I also know he'll find a way to adapt - we all do. Personally, I'd much rather see SOE actually fix problems instead of nerfing innocent bystanders because of people crying about another class. I play a Necromancer, and right now I'm getting beat down with a nerf bat wrapped in barbed wire because of what a handful of raiding Necromancers (and Conjurors) can do and in part because of the complaints from the Wizard community drawing the attention of the devs on to my class and Conjurors in specific (and Mages in general).

06-07-2006, 08:22 PM	#14
Geakor Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 79	Saihung23 wrote: Geakor wrote: More whining coming from a I don't want to be nerfed cause I'm uber class. Tell you what next time your not sitting down enjoying EQ2 go out side and run by someone and punch them in the gut tell me how that works. I bet pretty well, infact I think it might hurt them more than if you were standing still!! Now go out side and shoot someone with a REAL bow&arrow let me know how that works out, if your not in hospital. Thanks. Geakor, I am not saying anything about you personally here...but that argument is not very well thought out. Hrmm...let me go outside and try casting an Ice Comet and the same person, guess what it doesnt work very well does it. Also, yes people did use Bows on the move before, plus, if your argument about this being about shooting on the run was legit, then why are other lines culling the herd, and selection not being nerfed? See...here is the thing, perhaps you were not happy seeing a thread complaining about a change, perhaps it irritated you a bit, but guess what you clicked into the thread, you chose to read it...and then you get upset over it...so if you want to beat someone up over it go into a closet and beat the hell out of yourself since it was you that decided to. Dont get mad at me for taking you to task for using the old "whiner" tag on someone who is not happy with a proposed change. If you dont like this thread ignore it, but dont come in and throw words around like they mean anything to anyone but you. If this were about an "uber" issue...gee...you'd think we would ask for it to be allowed on the run and increase the damage. Oh well...have fun on the forums and getting mad at people for posting concerns that they have. It is well thought out if you actually think about =DLets see, archery can be associated with RL, meaning I can go outside and shoot a bow and arrow. Fictional, let me go out side and cast magic missle. Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it, butchered that word, ie gravity. To be able to cast a spell one must stand still because it requires their concentration, to be able to shoot a bow properly one must stand still to be able to aim does this not make sense? If not please explain for I hunt, and have used a bow (i have one), it's hard to pull back for one, and it takes time to aim it correctly to be able to hit ANYTHING.Thanks again, but I DO agree with you that you should be able to move and shoot with this skill. I say this because it is a SHOWER OF ARROWS meaning this is a FAF skill (fire and forget)learned that from HALO2's rocket launcher, but that was fire and forget it took no skill to make the kill MWHAHA Ok done __________________

06-07-2006, 08:38 PM	#15
Bledso Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 222	Fleet wrote: I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that. Ummm weren't the native americans able to shoot bows from horseback - is that not moving and like running. Unskilled people running and shooting or using bows and arrows would naturally have a hard time - a class that's to be an expert in ranged bows and arrows should be able to - I think it's called skill. I can see the trouble of losing this ability since they are also cutting down the root duration. It may have been better to increase the recharge time and instead of damage make it a stun instead of taking away an ability - rain of arrows then would be a last ditch effort to flee to safety or evac instead of a kiting ability. Just my 2 copper

06-07-2006, 08:53 PM	#16
Geekyone Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 236	Geakor wrote: Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it, ROFLMAO gets up ROFLMAO __________________ Kittik

06-07-2006, 08:56 PM	#17
Aandien Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	running while shooting a bow is significantly different than riding a horse and shooting a bow. For anyone that actually knows how to ride horses at a gallop, know that there upper body really isn't moving all that much, and thus aiming and shooting isn't all that hard. Running, on the other hand, and trying to aim at something to your side or behind you, is significantly harder. __________________ -Aandien

06-07-2006, 09:56 PM	#18
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	Okay...so you really want to pursue the "but you cant do that in real life" argument. Well lets nerf rangers more unless you skilled hunters out there are shooting 3-5 arrows at once. This is a fantasy game...FANTASY...if I can accept that there is some cat person running around shooting 5 arrows at once into the rear end of a dog like creature on two legs then I can certainly accept a ranger in said fantasy game shooting on the move. Plus...there are still ranged ca's that the ranger can use on the move...and as every ranger will tell you a ca that you can use on the move that has a 3 minute recast timer on it is virtually useless if you are trying to kite. Additionally, for assassins who say "I dont have a ranged ca I can use" I do believe you have one, but even if you didnt, you are assassins, not rangers...you have are more of a master of melee than ranged. However, I couldnt care less if they gave them to you...if they do great. But this isnt about comparing rangers to our evil counterparts is it? __________________

06-07-2006, 10:25 PM	#19
Marcuzs Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 164	Solaran_X wrote: KnightOfTheWord wrote: Solaran_X wrote: I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying. Just as an FYI...although Rangers can use some ranged CAs while running, any Ranger that tries to take on ANY heroic ^^ or ^^^ mobs is going to be dead, period, except in those rare situations like 1) sheer dumb luck or maybe 2) All Master or Adept3 CAs, fabled or legendary gear and weapons COMBINED with sheer dumb luck. It doesn't matter whether the Ranger tries to kite said heroic ^^^ mob or not. It's not worth the trouble for Rangers to try to take on mobs that aren't supposed to be soloed anyway. I may not speak for everyone, but that's what I've experienced. The OP is frustrated. We can agree or disagree with him, but the "uber class is whining again" attacks don't really serve any purpose other than to start the flamewar of the day. Maybe it's just this one Ranger or not - I'm not sure. But I've watched him (L70 Ranger with Adept IIIs/Master Is and Legendary/Fabled gear - he's from a raiding guild on Antonia Bayle that recently broke up, to my understanding) kite The Vornerous Tyrant (L69 ^^^ Heroic) after pulling him from the backside of the Hive with no LOS. I've personally watched him do this many, many times - kiting the mob where the fetidthorns are. At one time, I saw him have almost 20 high-T7 (67+) Master Is on the broker at once. While not all Rangers are probably able to do it, it doesn't change the fact that it is possible (just like all these people who want Conjurors and Necromancers nerfed into oblivion because of what a handful of the class can do with Adept IIIs/Master Is and all Legendary/Fabled gear). I'm sure using his big Ranged CA is a huge help in killing this mob, but I also know he'll find a way to adapt - we all do. Personally, I'd much rather see SOE actually fix problems instead of nerfing innocent bystanders because of people crying about another class. I play a Necromancer, and right now I'm getting beat down with a nerf bat wrapped in barbed wire because of what a handful of raiding Necromancers (and Conjurors) can do and in part because of the complaints from the Wizard community drawing the attention of the devs on to my class and Conjurors in specific (and Mages in general). This Ranger who kited this named heroic wont have anymore difficulty in continueing to do it after this change. Why? Because a skill that is on a 3 min timer is hardly going to impact this fight. What will likely hurt is the reduction in our trap root time and the loss of the stun from snipershot. (I can only assume the Ranger pulled with his no line of sight shot, back up over trap then got into invis and hit with snipershot, which would stun for 4 sec and then get a couple more shots off before kiting backwords, which can be a pain in the [Removed for Content]) __________________

06-07-2006, 10:51 PM	#20
Crychtonn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 684	Solaran_X wrote: I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying. This statement is just plain ignorant. Kiting a mob and keeping it at distance with the run speed mobs have takes alot of skill. Along with awareness of your surroundings and movements of other mobs in the area. It takes alot of skill and a little luck to become a good kiter. If you want easy and low risk go with a wizard. Root and nuke is just a more slow paced way to kite and requires alot less skill. As for the ranger that kite Vorenous who gives a crap. I know a class that can solo every single named in the bonemire outside of the contested. And a crap load of other classes can solo various but not all of the named there. But all you care about is one ranger and one named ?? You have to be kidding me. And if you think this change will make him change one bit of his strat on killing it your even more ignorant. The skill has a THREE minute recast on it. That means he's using it Once per fight. And I've seen you in other thread complain about the rangers skill that doesn't require LoS and this ranger that kites Vorenous. My question to you is how is this one skill that doesn't require LoS any more powerfull then your Necro's ability to send in and pet pull a mob from long distance and without LoS. FYI I have a conjuror and target mobs, move and then pull without LoS all the time so don't try and give me [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] that you can't do it. That ranger has to go down and grab the target then move just the same as you would. PS - And trying to talk down to the ranger community about your necro being beat down with a nerf bat covered in barbwire is just dumb. The ranger community already got hit with that bat over a month ago and are still getting even more hits. The nerf to summoners is bad but not near as bad is what happened and is continuing to happen to rangers. And remember I play both at L70 so I know from experience. Message Edited by Crychtonn on 06-07-2006 11:55 AM

06-07-2006, 11:34 PM	#21
Geakor Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 79	Geekyone wrote: Geakor wrote: Yes it is a game but the game has solid mechinesums to it, ROFLMAO gets up ROFLMAO Notice after that I said I butchered the word. I didn't claim to be the spelling champion, matter of fact I can't spell for poop. So "ROFL" all you want I am sure you have miss spelt pleanty of things, and I wasn't about to open word to check the spelling. __________________

06-07-2006, 11:40 PM	#22
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	Dont let that bother you, everyone mispells something every now and then...everyone is human behind the keyboard. We all understood what you meant (lol, maybe I didnt agree..but anyway)...and thats what is important. Personally I find anyone making fun of someone's spelling to be a bit on the low side...it just shouldnt happen. So, please dont ever refrain from sharing your thoughts simply because someone brings up spelling mistakes that you yourself point out. __________________

06-07-2006, 11:42 PM	#23
Haavo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 31	Solaran_X wrote: I'm sure Rangers will still be allowed to shoot on the run (a la kiting), just won't be able to use their Ranged CAs while running - which makes sense. I know as an Assassin (only L40, but still), if I had been able to use my Ranged CAs while running - it would be easy to kite my way up in the levels by killing ^^ and ^^^ Heroic mobs with little to no risk of dying. Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull. __________________

06-07-2006, 11:46 PM	#24
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	Haavokk wrote: Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull. /agreed Assassins can use a ca, it IS from behind and stealthed...no worry of that being nerfed and it is not worth the time nor effort to kite even with this ca being on the move....effort+time does not equal what you get out of it. This change CANT be about kiting...if it is, then it is a stupid change. __________________

06-08-2006, 12:00 AM	#25
Haavo Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 31	Saihung23 wrote: Haavokk wrote: Assassins can use their ranged CAs while running, and 2/3 of them are behind only. Even though it's possible to kite with the snare CA, the exp/time ratio would make anyone change their mind after one pull. /agreed Assassins can use a ca, it IS from behind and stealthed...no worry of that being nerfed and it is not worth the time nor effort to kite even with this ca being on the move....effort+time does not equal what you get out of it. This change CANT be about kiting...if it is, then it is a stupid change. Probably in regards to pvp kiting. The devs want to turn the ranger into a slightly lower dps wizard in chain. I believe the only ranged CAs that should be used while running should be behind and flanked, to catch the runners. __________________

06-08-2006, 12:08 AM	#26
Saihung23 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Delaware:Home of...Home of...we got stuff! Posts: 1,527	On PvP I agree...100% I mean, that makes total sense to me... On PvE, changes should not be made because of PvP...they stated it would be that way and if it isnt I would like to know. I may not like or agree with all changes, but it is much easier to accept changes when they are announced like other changes and given a reason. With all the stun changes and root changes and the change to PBS :smileymad: I dont like them but they have given reason for them....and I understand the reasons...I may not like the changes but I am willing to be patient and deal with it. If it results in serious issues solo'ing and what not then I may make my voice heard.... But I dont understand this change, I dont agree with it, and I would like to see some consistency in how they are presenting these changes to the class involved. Hell...this change will be easier to take than the rest of LU24 but it hasnt been explained. __________________

06-08-2006, 01:49 AM	#27
Gorl General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Makes perfect since to me... In order to make that killer shot, a ranger need to stop and aim...Do not worry, you'll get over it... I know since the same happened to my class... 2 lines were changed to not being able to cast while on the run.. B!tch all you want, it makes me smile.BTW, i hate rangers... Message Edited by Gorlim on 06-07-2006 02:50 PM

06-08-2006, 02:15 AM	#28
TaleraRis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,083	Haavokk wrote: Probably in regards to pvp kiting. The devs want to turn the ranger into a slightly lower dps wizard in chain. I believe the only ranged CAs that should be used while running should be behind and flanked, to catch the runners. We have CAs now that we have to be in stealth or behind or even both and we can't cast them on the run. The discrepancies between which lines we can and which lines we can't follow no logical reasoning or pattern. __________________ Gwyneth Lecarde 90 Warty Arrow Flinger 90 Sword Shiner Najena Morgasand Ka'Bael 54 Roswellian Mind Scrambler 87 Shield Polisher Najena

06-08-2006, 03:52 AM	#29
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Bledso wrote: Fleet wrote: I know eq2 is only a game but try shooting a bow and arrow in real life while running and while trying to hit a target. And stop with the bs about rangers being low tier2 dps, they are far far better than that. Ummm weren't the native americans able to shoot bows from horseback - is that not moving and like running. Unskilled people running and shooting or using bows and arrows would naturally have a hard time - a class that's to be an expert in ranged bows and arrows should be able to - I think it's called skill. I can see the trouble of losing this ability since they are also cutting down the root duration. It may have been better to increase the recharge time and instead of damage make it a stun instead of taking away an ability - rain of arrows then would be a last ditch effort to flee to safety or evac instead of a kiting ability. Just my 2 copper Horse Archers, both the American Indains and Mongoles of Asia, use SHORT BOWS at a range of less then 10m, basicly they used a Bow instead of a throwing Spear. So if you want to beable to move and shoot your bow you have to a) have a short bow equiped and b) use it at ranges closer then 15m. If you use the Brittish Long bow you CAN NOT use that on the Move heck even the best archers could bearly get them pulled to full Draw befor having to release the string. __________________

06-08-2006, 04:14 AM	#30
Crychtonn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 684	This and the other threads like it are just becoming amusement now. Every other class and their brother all want to just pop in and toss down the Reality bit. Completely ignoring other game mechanics and facts. Wonder how their classes would pass on this Reality stick they like to toss around.