Why Does SOE charge for Face changes???

Maroger · 04-01-2006, 09:17 PM

Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!!

Wingrider01 · 04-01-2006, 09:42 PM

Maroger wrote:
Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!!

Just because it is on the test serveris LU22 it dows not mean it will make it to the prouction servers. still make a pretty decent profit on my trasdeskill characters

Message Edited by Wingrider01 on 04-01-200610:48 AM

valkyrja · 04-01-2006, 09:52 PM

Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money.

troodon · 04-01-2006, 10:17 PM

Maroger wrote:
Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face?

Because a newbie hasn't been playing long enough to feel like they need to change their face.

Are you trying to suck money out of the game?

Yeah, they are. That's not exactly a secret.

Koehianna · 04-01-2006, 11:01 PM

lol

I can't seem to find the barbers in either city...

Koehianna · 04-01-2006, 11:15 PM

Okay, I found him now.

Ariellia · 04-01-2006, 11:22 PM

Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho.

Mystfit · 04-01-2006, 11:44 PM

I"m delighted for the option. As a female, I am inclined to wanna change of hairdos now and again SMILEY

Dasein · 04-01-2006, 11:44 PM

Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho.

If I don't shave for a few days, my appearance changes. There are many styles of facial hair I can achieve in a few days. Hairstyles can be changed on a whim - going from braided to not braided or putting my hair back in a pony tail takes seconds.

Maroger · 04-02-2006, 12:25 AM

Ariellia wrote:
Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho.

EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge.

If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2???

Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:26 PM

Deson · 04-02-2006, 12:37 AM

Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters.

Calthine · 04-02-2006, 12:42 AM

And this isn't EQ1 SMILEY

Maroger · 04-02-2006, 12:45 AM

Deson wrote:Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters.

I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!!

They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1.

I don't think money sinks control inflation in the economy -- they just make people angry and encourage people to go and buys gold for stuff they want. I think developers have no idea what motivates players to acquire things or how to control inflation as I don't believe they understand the economics involved in MMO - they somehow think it works like the real world or ECON 101.

Calthine wrote:
And this isn't EQ1

If these folks can take ideas from WoW they can take them from EQ1 too.

Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM

Deson · 04-02-2006, 12:50 AM

With the exception of the broker, none of the money sinks in this game are significant. If a charge of one gold makes you want to buy plat.....I've no words for you. Besides, if you are the type inclined to buy plat the exchange servers already exist.Money sinks are a neccessity even in real life it's just that in real life you are more inclined to accept it(if you even notice it). Also,real life has strict controls on how much money is out on the market, EQ2 doesnt have that.

Deson · 04-02-2006, 12:52 AM

Maroger wrote:
.....
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM

Explain please.This makes no sense to me.

Grace37 · 04-02-2006, 12:56 AM

Think of it this way your paying the barber to redo your hairdo and touch up your make-up

cheep price for a total make over..

New hair 50 silver

new make-up 50 silver

The confidence that you look fresh and beautiful...........ohh about 1 gold

bet you thought i was going to say Priceless huh lol

Love Love and Puppy chow

Georga Grace

Conjurer

Lucan server

Lings · 04-02-2006, 01:18 AM

sparql wrote:Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money.

Well... after a certain point... 1 gp is trivial, however most 'noobs' that I've met at that level didn't even have that much, I wouldn't say trivial at level 20, I actually had enough coin to consider 1 gp 'trivial' by level 30 on my first character... Second one it was about 25. As for the guy who said that money sinks defeat the purpose and put more money in the game... How?... How does giving money to an NPC (which theoretically removes it...) create MORE?

edit: that was my first and second adventurers i was talking about. By TSs you would be making more money.... And anyone who is good enough to get a profit... shouldn't really see 1 gold as a significant issue

EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge.

If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2???

Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!!

:smileysurprised:.... I thought you were being sarcastic there for a moment... But, that would make no sense... We aren't shapeshifters... it would ruin the emulsion of the game.

I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!!

If you think it's unethical to charge for a haircut... then you're in the wrong place. You should be complaining at a real barber shop, not the message boards for a game.

They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1.

Well, you can choose a normal house, you can get the carpet quest carpet, you can choose not to pay 1gp (you're really cheap if you can't spare that much...) for a haircut. Or, you can buy the big house to put all your crap in and pay 20 plat for a Nightmare/Mistrunner (if you have a level 40 guild) or whatever. you have the option not to, if you really want to change your looks that bad, then come up with the one gold

Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM

Meleania · 04-02-2006, 01:30 AM

Be happy they arent charging REAL money SMILEY

Maroger · 04-02-2006, 02:14 AM

Deson wrote:
Maroger wrote:
.....
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM
Explain please.This makes no sense to me.

Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing.

First remember money is fungible

If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case.

Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games.

That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work.

Maroger · 04-02-2006, 02:18 AM

Lingsch wrote:
sparql wrote:Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money.
Well... after a certain point... 1 gp is trivial, however most 'noobs' that I've met at that level didn't even have that much, I wouldn't say trivial at level 20, I actually had enough coin to consider 1 gp 'trivial' by level 30 on my first character... Second one it was about 25. As for the guy who said that money sinks defeat the purpose and put more money in the game... How?... How does giving money to an NPC (which theoretically removes it...) create MORE?
edit: that was my first and second adventurers i was talking about. By TSs you would be making more money.... And anyone who is good enough to get a profit... shouldn't really see 1 gold as a significant issue
EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge.
If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2???
Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!!
:smileysurprised:.... I thought you were being sarcastic there for a moment... But, that would make no sense... We aren't shapeshifters... it would ruin the emulsion of the game.
I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!!
If you think it's unethical to charge for a haircut... then you're in the wrong place. You should be complaining at a real barber shop, not the message boards for a game.
They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1.
Well, you can choose a normal house, you can get the carpet quest carpet, you can choose not to pay 1gp (you're really cheap if you can't spare that much...) for a haircut. Or, you can buy the big house to put all your crap in and pay 20 plat for a Nightmare/Mistrunner (if you have a level 40 guild) or whatever. you have the option not to, if you really want to change your looks that bad, then come up with the one gold
Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM
Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM

Not everyone is into role-playing or cares about whether something fits in wtih roleplaying or game immersion. Changing your face is one of those things -- I mean if they let you do it for free once they know how to do it for free again. The barber is just a nuisance -- you have to waste time going there.

Personally I have never like most of the faces in EQ2 -- I thought the ones in EQ1 were a lot better -- especially the Dark Elves.

Finora · 04-02-2006, 02:19 AM

EQ2 barber vs EQ1 /face

EQ2 - by design to be available permanently.

EQ1 /face - was originally only supposed to be available for a short time after Luclin models were introduced. People protested, SOE relented and just left it in.

I'm glad they are putting it in. I can't understand how people can say it breaks the immersion of the game for player characters to get a new hair style, I know people in the real world that have a new hair style/color every week.

I doubt I'll ever use it for my main (I LOOOVE how she looks) but some of my alts could use a new do. And this mechanic will make it easier for SOE to add new looks for player characters at some point in time. People won't have a reason to whine "YOU ADDED NEW LOOKS! I don't want to re-roll to be able to use the new looks!"

Message Edited by Calendri on 04-01-200604:24 PM

Meeker · 04-02-2006, 02:23 AM

Deson wrote:
Maroger wrote:
.....
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM
Explain please.This makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense to the rest of us either. Mostly because it is factually untrue.

Money sinks take money out of the economy. As one of the above posters stated the virtual economy doesn't really have any natural limits. In a real economy the number of hours a peson can work is limited by, at the very least, biology. Since our characters don't need to take time to eat, sleep, or eliminate those limits don't exist. Also, there are very few jobs in a real economy wherein you can kill stuff and have money drop off of their bodies. Without money sinks MUDflation takes over. EQ1 is a fantastic example of this. To summarize; money sinks are what keep us from having to pay 1000pp for a lvl 10 sword.

Deson · 04-02-2006, 02:33 AM

Maroger wrote:
Deson wrote:
Maroger wrote:
.....
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM
Explain please.This makes no sense to me.
Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing.
First remember money is fungible
If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case.
Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games.
That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work.

The people who buy plat are going to buy it with or without money sinks-look at EQ1. The system isn't designed around them. It's designed around guys like me who like being able to say I've earned every blessed thing I've ever touched.Money sinks work for us as it establishes relative value of the currency in game.

Ildarus · 04-02-2006, 02:42 AM

Maroger wrote:
Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!!

Because people have been asking for it and saying they are willing to pay to do it. You have to pay when you go to the barber or stylist in RL so you do in the game as well. Get over it. There are lots of other things to worry about and complain about instead of a gp to make some character changes.

Bhagpuss · 04-02-2006, 02:45 AM

I would be a lot more annoyed if they had put in free appearance changes, personally.The more that this kind of thing can be made to follow some in-game logic, rather than out-of-game UI trick, the better.Whether the price is currently appropriate is another matter, but 1 gold is a trivial sum for most players after 20th or so, and I would have thought it wasn't too much to ask for people to stick with their first appearance choice for that long.

Pon · 04-02-2006, 02:55 AM

Maroger wrote:
Deson wrote:
Maroger wrote:
.....
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM
Explain please.This makes no sense to me.
Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing.
First remember money is fungible
If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case.
Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games.
That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work.

First, the money they are buying is already in the game. They are not buying the money directly from sony who then creates the money and sends it to them. Second, 1 gold is spare change to probably 95% of the population. personally I think they should charge more. Money sicks are a part of the game just like in real life. You want something your going to have to pay for it one way or another. And like someone else said, if charging you 1 gold makes you want to run out and buy a plat or two from a a botter or SE, then I feel sorry for you.

Delameko Stone · 04-02-2006, 03:41 AM

Sigh... people always find a way to complain about something.

Meeker · 04-02-2006, 03:43 AM

Maroger wrote:
If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case.
Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games.
That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work.

This is also untrue.

Buying gold does not create money. Duping creates money. If a player buys gold on their server, where did the gold come from? Unless it was duped, it came from from another player who earned it through legitimate means. If the gold wasn't duped, it didn't just appear. It was on the server already and it changed hands.

If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't high enough level to have acquired the requisite cash and you are the type of person who is williing to cheat you will simply go and buy gold. However money sinks do not cause players to buy gold. Greed causes players to buy gold. Laziness causes players to buy gold. The desire to have more than the player is willing to work for causes players to buy gold. Money sinks cause players to spend gold. That's all.

Those players who are willing to cheat and buy gold don't really require encouragement. They require real disposable income. This is sepreate from in game gold. No matter what the players who buy gold think they are cheating, unless they are buying and selling on an Exchange server.

How is SOE trying to "artificially take your money"? There is no fee in Norrath that you must pay. Your toon can survive without a room. You can choose not to mend. You can never upgrade spells. Likewise you can choose never to change your toon's appearance. As you said, "money is never really finite in these games". That's why we need money sinks.

Money sinks do work in the long run. They work quite well. What would happen if SOE removed all the money sinks? The total amount of money on the server would continually grow in a never-ending cycle, until the entire economy is devalued. It's called inflation.

Solaran_X · 04-02-2006, 04:24 AM

Maroger wrote:
Deson wrote:Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters.
I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!!
They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1.
I don't think money sinks control inflation in the economy -- they just make people angry and encourage people to go and buys gold for stuff they want. I think developers have no idea what motivates players to acquire things or how to control inflation as I don't believe they understand the economics involved in MMO - they somehow think it works like the real world or ECON 101.
Calthine wrote:
And this isn't EQ1
If these folks can take ideas from WoW they can take them from EQ1 too.
Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!!

Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM

And where do you think WoW got the majority of it's ideas?

Yep.

EQLive, or was you people are calling it - EQ1.

joeygopher · 04-02-2006, 04:29 AM

More than happy to be able to pay for a makeover.

In fact, while they're at it, how about some looks and hairstyles that you can get by spending your hard-earned status points on?

04-01-2006, 09:42 PM	#2
Wingrider01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,999	Maroger wrote: Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!! Just because it is on the test serveris LU22 it dows not mean it will make it to the prouction servers. still make a pretty decent profit on my trasdeskill characters Message Edited by Wingrider01 on 04-01-200610:48 AM __________________ Fixing computer issues, one SOC7 at a time. Yes Jim, the user has experienced the dreaded PICNIC error

04-01-2006, 09:52 PM	#3
valkyrja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 559	Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money. __________________

04-01-2006, 10:17 PM	#4
troodon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Temple of Terror, Cabilis Posts: 1,098	Maroger wrote: Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? Because a newbie hasn't been playing long enough to feel like they need to change their face. Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Yeah, they are. That's not exactly a secret. __________________ ---- ROL GRATUL SKORCHERS!!

04-01-2006, 11:22 PM	#7
Ariellia Otaku Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 65	Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho. __________________

04-01-2006, 11:44 PM	#8
Mystfit Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,984	I"m delighted for the option. As a female, I am inclined to wanna change of hairdos now and again __________________

04-01-2006, 09:17 PM	#1
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!!

04-01-2006, 11:01 PM	#5
Koehianna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 295	lol I can't seem to find the barbers in either city...

04-01-2006, 11:15 PM	#6
Koehianna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 295	Okay, I found him now.

04-01-2006, 11:44 PM	#9
Dasein Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,847	Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho. If I don't shave for a few days, my appearance changes. There are many styles of facial hair I can achieve in a few days. Hairstyles can be changed on a whim - going from braided to not braided or putting my hair back in a pony tail takes seconds. __________________ Troll Lord Casywdian

04-02-2006, 12:25 AM	#10
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Ariellia wrote: Wow...people are actually complaining about them charging 1g? In most games I have encountered once you set your appearance it is set permanently. I think it's awesome that SOE has given us this option. If this option was ever introduced, I expected there would be a charge, and am actually surprised it ONLY costs 1g. It takes away from the realism o f the game if people are changing their appearance every few days - and with no charge, they could. Designing the appearance of your character should be an important decision, just like the selection of achievements, imho. EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge. If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2??? Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:26 PM

04-02-2006, 12:37 AM	#11
Deson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,754	Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters. __________________ I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom. I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break...

04-02-2006, 12:42 AM	#12
Calthine ZAM EQII Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,439	And this isn't EQ1 __________________ Please visit my non-gaming Blog! or follow me on Twitter!

04-02-2006, 12:45 AM	#13
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Deson wrote:Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters. I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!! They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1. I don't think money sinks control inflation in the economy -- they just make people angry and encourage people to go and buys gold for stuff they want. I think developers have no idea what motivates players to acquire things or how to control inflation as I don't believe they understand the economics involved in MMO - they somehow think it works like the real world or ECON 101. Calthine wrote: And this isn't EQ1 If these folks can take ideas from WoW they can take them from EQ1 too. Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM

04-02-2006, 12:50 AM	#14
Deson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,754	With the exception of the broker, none of the money sinks in this game are significant. If a charge of one gold makes you want to buy plat.....I've no words for you. Besides, if you are the type inclined to buy plat the exchange servers already exist.Money sinks are a neccessity even in real life it's just that in real life you are more inclined to accept it(if you even notice it). Also,real life has strict controls on how much money is out on the market, EQ2 doesnt have that. __________________ I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom. I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break...

04-02-2006, 12:52 AM	#15
Deson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,754	Maroger wrote: ..... Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM Explain please.This makes no sense to me. __________________ I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom. I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break...

04-02-2006, 12:56 AM	#16
Grace37 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Kelethin, Greater Feydark, Norath Posts: 54	Think of it this way your paying the barber to redo your hairdo and touch up your make-up cheep price for a total make over.. New hair 50 silver new make-up 50 silver The confidence that you look fresh and beautiful...........ohh about 1 gold bet you thought i was going to say Priceless huh lol Love Love and Puppy chow Georga Grace Conjurer Lucan server __________________

04-02-2006, 01:18 AM	#17
Lings Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 141	sparql wrote:Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money. Well... after a certain point... 1 gp is trivial, however most 'noobs' that I've met at that level didn't even have that much, I wouldn't say trivial at level 20, I actually had enough coin to consider 1 gp 'trivial' by level 30 on my first character... Second one it was about 25. As for the guy who said that money sinks defeat the purpose and put more money in the game... How?... How does giving money to an NPC (which theoretically removes it...) create MORE? edit: that was my first and second adventurers i was talking about. By TSs you would be making more money.... And anyone who is good enough to get a profit... shouldn't really see 1 gold as a significant issue EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge. If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2??? Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!! :smileysurprised:.... I thought you were being sarcastic there for a moment... But, that would make no sense... We aren't shapeshifters... it would ruin the emulsion of the game. I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!! If you think it's unethical to charge for a haircut... then you're in the wrong place. You should be complaining at a real barber shop, not the message boards for a game. They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1. Well, you can choose a normal house, you can get the carpet quest carpet, you can choose not to pay 1gp (you're really cheap if you can't spare that much...) for a haircut. Or, you can buy the big house to put all your crap in and pay 20 plat for a Nightmare/Mistrunner (if you have a level 40 guild) or whatever. you have the option not to, if you really want to change your looks that bad, then come up with the one gold Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM

04-02-2006, 01:30 AM	#18
Meleania Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 109	Be happy they arent charging REAL money __________________

04-02-2006, 02:14 AM	#19
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Deson wrote: Maroger wrote: ..... Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM Explain please.This makes no sense to me. Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing. First remember money is fungible If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case. Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games. That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work.

04-02-2006, 02:18 AM	#20
Maroger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,313	Lingsch wrote: sparql wrote:Because it is a money sink. Once you hit level 20, 1gp is a trivial amount of money. Well... after a certain point... 1 gp is trivial, however most 'noobs' that I've met at that level didn't even have that much, I wouldn't say trivial at level 20, I actually had enough coin to consider 1 gp 'trivial' by level 30 on my first character... Second one it was about 25. As for the guy who said that money sinks defeat the purpose and put more money in the game... How?... How does giving money to an NPC (which theoretically removes it...) create MORE? edit: that was my first and second adventurers i was talking about. By TSs you would be making more money.... And anyone who is good enough to get a profit... shouldn't really see 1 gold as a significant issue EQ1 set the standard for SOE - they did not charge and there was no tom-foolery about going to a barber to make it plausible to charge. If EQ1 could let players do it free why can't EQ2??? Skip the barber and other cute stuff and just make it an option to CHANGE APPEARANCE when you log on!! :smileysurprised:.... I thought you were being sarcastic there for a moment... But, that would make no sense... We aren't shapeshifters... it would ruin the emulsion of the game. I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!! If you think it's unethical to charge for a haircut... then you're in the wrong place. You should be complaining at a real barber shop, not the message boards for a game. They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1. Well, you can choose a normal house, you can get the carpet quest carpet, you can choose not to pay 1gp (you're really cheap if you can't spare that much...) for a haircut. Or, you can buy the big house to put all your crap in and pay 20 plat for a Nightmare/Mistrunner (if you have a level 40 guild) or whatever. you have the option not to, if you really want to change your looks that bad, then come up with the one gold Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM Message Edited by Lingsch on 04-01-200612:32 PM Not everyone is into role-playing or cares about whether something fits in wtih roleplaying or game immersion. Changing your face is one of those things -- I mean if they let you do it for free once they know how to do it for free again. The barber is just a nuisance -- you have to waste time going there. Personally I have never like most of the faces in EQ2 -- I thought the ones in EQ1 were a lot better -- especially the Dark Elves.

04-02-2006, 02:19 AM	#21
Finora Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,423	EQ2 barber vs EQ1 /face EQ2 - by design to be available permanently. EQ1 /face - was originally only supposed to be available for a short time after Luclin models were introduced. People protested, SOE relented and just left it in. I'm glad they are putting it in. I can't understand how people can say it breaks the immersion of the game for player characters to get a new hair style, I know people in the real world that have a new hair style/color every week. I doubt I'll ever use it for my main (I LOOOVE how she looks) but some of my alts could use a new do. And this mechanic will make it easier for SOE to add new looks for player characters at some point in time. People won't have a reason to whine "YOU ADDED NEW LOOKS! I don't want to re-roll to be able to use the new looks!" Message Edited by Calendri on 04-01-200604:24 PM __________________ Lady Finora Mystic of Prism Everfrost(Grobb) Finora of Valiant Knights Test Server

04-02-2006, 02:23 AM	#22
Meeker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 117	Deson wrote: Maroger wrote: ..... Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM Explain please.This makes no sense to me. It makes no sense to the rest of us either. Mostly because it is factually untrue. Money sinks take money out of the economy. As one of the above posters stated the virtual economy doesn't really have any natural limits. In a real economy the number of hours a peson can work is limited by, at the very least, biology. Since our characters don't need to take time to eat, sleep, or eliminate those limits don't exist. Also, there are very few jobs in a real economy wherein you can kill stuff and have money drop off of their bodies. Without money sinks MUDflation takes over. EQ1 is a fantastic example of this. To summarize; money sinks are what keep us from having to pay 1000pp for a lvl 10 sword.

04-02-2006, 02:33 AM	#23
Deson Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,754	Maroger wrote: Deson wrote: Maroger wrote: ..... Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM Explain please.This makes no sense to me. Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing. First remember money is fungible If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case. Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games. That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work. The people who buy plat are going to buy it with or without money sinks-look at EQ1. The system isn't designed around them. It's designed around guys like me who like being able to say I've earned every blessed thing I've ever touched.Money sinks work for us as it establishes relative value of the currency in game. __________________ I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom. I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break my doom and gloom.I will not let Domino break...

04-02-2006, 02:42 AM	#24
Ildarus Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 221	Maroger wrote: Why does SOE feel it is necessary to charge 1g ( a little pricey for newbies) to change you face? They manage to insert that feature into EQ1 without charging for it -- why the charge here? Are you trying to suck money out of the game? Haven't you done that already by spoiling trade skills so hardly any skill will get you a profit any more!! Because people have been asking for it and saying they are willing to pay to do it. You have to pay when you go to the barber or stylist in RL so you do in the game as well. Get over it. There are lots of other things to worry about and complain about instead of a gp to make some character changes. __________________ Lord Sarron-Level 80 Swashbuckler Serpaw-Level 74 Berserker Simbarth-Level 22 Shadowknight/76 Alchemist

04-02-2006, 02:45 AM	#25
Bhagpuss Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 347	I would be a lot more annoyed if they had put in free appearance changes, personally.The more that this kind of thing can be made to follow some in-game logic, rather than out-of-game UI trick, the better.Whether the price is currently appropriate is another matter, but 1 gold is a trivial sum for most players after 20th or so, and I would have thought it wasn't too much to ask for people to stick with their first appearance choice for that long.

04-02-2006, 02:55 AM	#26
Pon General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 93	Maroger wrote: Deson wrote: Maroger wrote: ..... Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM Explain please.This makes no sense to me. Unless you are some kid whose parents are paying from he/she/it to play -- you are probably and adult with disposable income. If you didn't have disposable income you wouldn't be playing. First remember money is fungible If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case. Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games. That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work. First, the money they are buying is already in the game. They are not buying the money directly from sony who then creates the money and sends it to them. Second, 1 gold is spare change to probably 95% of the population. personally I think they should charge more. Money sicks are a part of the game just like in real life. You want something your going to have to pay for it one way or another. And like someone else said, if charging you 1 gold makes you want to run out and buy a plat or two from a a botter or SE, then I feel sorry for you. __________________

04-02-2006, 03:41 AM	#27
Delameko Stone Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: UK Posts: 279	Sigh... people always find a way to complain about something.

04-02-2006, 03:43 AM	#28
Meeker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 117	Maroger wrote: If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't a high enough level to have acquire the requisite cash you will simply go and buy gold. Thereby putting more money into the game than would normally be the case. Efforts to create money sinks merely encourage those with a sufficient amount of disposable income to buy the gold to get what they want. That is human nature and I doubt that most who do it consider it cheating. SOE is trying to artificially take your money and make it harder for your to get what you want and you aren't going to let them. Rather like dealing with the IRS. Money is never really finite in these games. That is why money sinks in the long run don't really work. This is also untrue. Buying gold does not create money. Duping creates money. If a player buys gold on their server, where did the gold come from? Unless it was duped, it came from from another player who earned it through legitimate means. If the gold wasn't duped, it didn't just appear. It was on the server already and it changed hands. If you are an adult with disposable income and you want something for your toon and you aren't high enough level to have acquired the requisite cash and you are the type of person who is williing to cheat you will simply go and buy gold. However money sinks do not cause players to buy gold. Greed causes players to buy gold. Laziness causes players to buy gold. The desire to have more than the player is willing to work for causes players to buy gold. Money sinks cause players to spend gold. That's all. Those players who are willing to cheat and buy gold don't really require encouragement. They require real disposable income. This is sepreate from in game gold. No matter what the players who buy gold think they are cheating, unless they are buying and selling on an Exchange server. How is SOE trying to "artificially take your money"? There is no fee in Norrath that you must pay. Your toon can survive without a room. You can choose not to mend. You can never upgrade spells. Likewise you can choose never to change your toon's appearance. As you said, "money is never really finite in these games". That's why we need money sinks. Money sinks do work in the long run. They work quite well. What would happen if SOE removed all the money sinks? The total amount of money on the server would continually grow in a never-ending cycle, until the entire economy is devalued. It's called inflation.

04-02-2006, 04:24 AM	#29
Solaran_X Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 396	Maroger wrote: Deson wrote:Eq1 also had rampant inflation due to there being no real money sinks in the game. All the money sinks in EQ2 are supposed to help control an econmy that has no natural limiters. I am sorry I think it is wrong to charge. I almost think it is unethical!! They have enough money sinks in this game -- horses and houses etc -- much bigger money sinks than EQ1. I don't think money sinks control inflation in the economy -- they just make people angry and encourage people to go and buys gold for stuff they want. I think developers have no idea what motivates players to acquire things or how to control inflation as I don't believe they understand the economics involved in MMO - they somehow think it works like the real world or ECON 101. Calthine wrote: And this isn't EQ1 If these folks can take ideas from WoW they can take them from EQ1 too. Money sinks end up defeating the purpose for which they are put in!! They cause inflation and merely increase the flow of money in the game.!! Message Edited by Maroger on 04-01-200602:48 PM And where do you think WoW got the majority of it's ideas? Yep. EQLive, or was you people are calling it - EQ1.

04-02-2006, 04:29 AM	#30
joeygopher Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 258	More than happy to be able to pay for a makeover. In fact, while they're at it, how about some looks and hairstyles that you can get by spending your hard-earned status points on?