Sugested alternative to "ATTUNE"

VinDark · 02-19-2005, 04:45 AM

When you die your gear gets "worn" right?What if each time you repaired the equipment it never came back to "as new" ie 100%.First "mend" brought the item back to maximum condition of 90Second mend brings it back to a maximum condition of 80.Third to 70.So on and so forth till you've really given that equipment an absolute flogging and it's time to junk it with an NPC merchant to at least recoup some of the money you spent on it.This way through normal use items will leave the market.Tradeskillers will still have a market selling NEW gear never worn before. Adventurers will still be able to pass on equipment when they outgrow it if they havent died a lot and ruined the condition of the gear!Plus is a MUCH more plausible situation than having to attune to everything and pass on nothing. Items will still pass out of the market, but its the best of both worlds.---- EDIT ----Here's a revision to the idea which was posted further down the thread... pasted up here to make it easier to track:What if the max condition was to go down by 1 each mend instead of 10?ie First mend max condition 99Second mend max condition 98Third 97... etc etcThat way you'd get 100 mends whilst wearing an item then it's useless. If you let things run down till they fall off you (condition 0) and if the amount of deaths you can have before you cant equip the item is "condition divided by 10 (rounded up)"you'd have 550 deaths before an item is unrepairable and unequipable.For special things such as hallmark items and powerful quest items they should be attuneable - which of course means non-tradeable... and have it so that attuneable items do not suffer the effects of mending (they're magic after all right?)

Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 11:59 AM

foulpla · 02-19-2005, 04:49 AM

I'm not sure if this is what you meant but....How about if there was a maximum number of times you could mend it, like 20(times at 10 points per mend).Its condition starts at 100, but drops 10 every time, every mend brings it up by 10.and if your equipment's condition drops to 0 it is broken but may be salvaged for supplies for crafting SMILEY

*just a thought*Ramza

VinDark · 02-19-2005, 04:54 AM

Yeah that was the idea - wasnt going to talk about the "salvaging" part as I figured that is a battle for another day.... the important part is to rid the world of this "attune to everything" problem first.The idea is that each time you mend, the condition of your items is not as good as it was when you bought it brand new.Over time, and many deaths later the armor is shoddy and unequippable, the sword is bent all out of shape and so dull it's now a crushing weapon.... the jewelery's catch broke and I'd be damned if i could find where that gem went when it popped out of its setting after that last smashing I got.... things like that.Have equipment leave the marketplace through hard use - not through forced attunement.

Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 09:56 AM

foulpla · 02-19-2005, 05:01 AM

VinDarkan wrote:Yeah that was the idea - wasnt going to talk about the "salvaging" part as I figured that is a battle for another day.... the important part is to rid the world of this "attune to everything" problem first.The idea is that each time you mend, the condition of your items is not as good as it was when you bought it brand new.Over time, and many deaths later the armor is shoddy and unequippable, the sword is bent all out of shape and so dull it's now a crushing weapon.... the jewelery's catch broke and I'd be damned if i could find where that gem went when it popped out of its setting after that last smashing I got.... things like that.Have equipment leave the marketplace through hard use - not through forced attunement.
Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 09:56 AM

That would be cool, a slow degrade of equipment quality every time you die. Like it starts as 20-40 max damage and goes down to 18-36, then 16-32, etc until its 0-0 and not usable SMILEY

*just a thought*Ramza :: 20 monk

VinDark · 02-19-2005, 05:11 AM

It wood be cool if as the condition lowers the usefulness lowers... but I'd imagine it'd be much more coding and decision-making on the dev's behalf to judge how much each item loses at each condition level, then the sheer number crunching involved to implement.What I'm suggesting here is as a quick fix is to just drop the "attuning to everything" idea and adopt the simple method of making condition of an item more important than what it currently is.As it stands, condition means "oh i gotta go mend that soon". If this proposed change was adopted then it would still mean "oh i gotta go mend that soon" but will also mean "hmm may need to replace this soon" too.Stimulates the market, allows people to hand off items to others (if they havent trashed it through use themselves!) and makes a lot of sense too.

foulpla · 02-19-2005, 05:32 AM

I couldn't agree with you more, I think that the "ATTUNE" system was a bad idea, but now that they've got themselves into a predicament they should try to escape from it gracefully. Excellent discussion*just a thought*Ramza :: 20 Monk

Jinsou · 02-19-2005, 05:33 AM

This would be way harsh to tanks IMO, who tend to die first in exp groups. Furthermore I don't think the degradation of items is going to alleviate the adventurers who are complaining about attuning, because a degraded piece of armor (at say 50% max durability) would sell just as poorly to a player via the broker system, than it would to an NPC vendor.

Lars · 02-19-2005, 05:40 AM

Yea great idea for MT:s and wizards who drop like flies.....theyd be naked after an good nights gaming

foulpla · 02-19-2005, 05:41 AM

Jinsou wrote:This would be way harsh to tanks IMO, who tend to die first in exp groups. Furthermore I don't think the degradation of items is going to alleviate the adventurers who are complaining about attuning, because a degraded piece of armor (at say 50% max durability) would sell just as poorly to a player via the broker system, than it would to an NPC vendor.

It is supposed to be a money sink hole and it is supposed to make it less valuable to people, that was their goal with the attuning system, I just feel that attuning made too sharp of a decrease in value of equipment, and this would promote more of a steady decline of a piece of armor's value over time, say you buy it for 50s, die 3x with it in your 5 levels you use it for, its slightly less valuable but still a decent piece of armor, so then you can sell it for say 40s or so. It keeps rare drops useful, and if done responsibly it could be a very efficient and effective system.*just a thought*Ramza :: 20 Monk

Verdyn · 02-19-2005, 05:54 AM

How about making certain items indestructable so that way the only stuff that degenerates are the replaceable stuff. That way, Heritage quests and very difficult items don't need to be replaced but the smaller stuff does, giving more business to those who craft them in the first place.

Kuroitsuki · 02-19-2005, 05:56 AM

Bad Idea.... see SWG for a CF... things are soooo bad people just don't want to be AS / WS cos it is crap.... you spend all your play time crafting.But I agree that as it stands the "attune" system needs a tweak...My Idea is a "Deattune" NPC in town, the mechanic would be that the NPC will "deattune" an item either for monetary cost or for stats cost, ie the item loses 10% say of the bonuses / AC / damage etc....That is your moneysink without totally killing the re-sale market.Kuroi

foulpla · 02-19-2005, 05:58 AM

Kuroitsuki wrote:Bad Idea.... see SWG for a CF... things are soooo bad people just don't want to be AS / WS cos it is crap.... you spend all your play time crafting.But I agree that as it stands the "attune" system needs a tweak...My Idea is a "Deattune" NPC in town, the mechanic would be that the NPC will "deattune" an item either for monetary cost or for stats cost, ie the item loses 10% say of the bonuses / AC / damage etc....That is your moneysink without totally killing the re-sale market.Kuroi

Thats a really good idea too.

Dimidri · 02-19-2005, 05:59 AM

The attune system is fair to everyone, doesn't punish tanks who already pay the most for armor (the plate ones anyway).

VinDark · 02-19-2005, 06:37 AM

The only problems with this idea I see being mentioned here is that people who die a lot will be punished.What if the max condition was to go down by 1 each mend instead of 10?ie First mend max condition 99Second mend max condition 98Third 97... etc etcThat way you'd get 100 mends whilst wearing an item then it's useless. If you let things run down till they fall off you (condition 0) and if the amount of deaths you can have before you cant equip the item is "condition divided by 10 (rounded up)"you'd have 550 deaths before an item is unrepairable and unequipable.Quite frankly I think that's more than fair (yes, I'm a tank myself). And it still provides a great incentive to buy new crafted stuff from tradeskillers based upon the condition of what second-hand equipment may have.For special things such as hallmark items and powerful quest items they should be attuneable - which of course means non-tradeable... and have it so that attuneable items do not suffer the effects of mending (they're magic after all right?)

Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 11:54 AM

02-19-2005, 04:49 AM	#2
foulpla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	I'm not sure if this is what you meant but....How about if there was a maximum number of times you could mend it, like 20(times at 10 points per mend).Its condition starts at 100, but drops 10 every time, every mend brings it up by 10.and if your equipment's condition drops to 0 it is broken but may be salvaged for supplies for crafting just a thoughtRamza __________________ I'm sorta back.Dead 62 Brigand of Nagafen Sempiternal "Most people want to be the guy with the title. That's a fair and reasonable goal. It's just not those guys I respect and remember." -Vroheem of Talisman http://www.ccdplace.com/marantz/gnome.jpg

02-19-2005, 05:01 AM	#4
foulpla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	VinDarkan wrote:Yeah that was the idea - wasnt going to talk about the "salvaging" part as I figured that is a battle for another day.... the important part is to rid the world of this "attune to everything" problem first.The idea is that each time you mend, the condition of your items is not as good as it was when you bought it brand new.Over time, and many deaths later the armor is shoddy and unequippable, the sword is bent all out of shape and so dull it's now a crushing weapon.... the jewelery's catch broke and I'd be damned if i could find where that gem went when it popped out of its setting after that last smashing I got.... things like that.Have equipment leave the marketplace through hard use - not through forced attunement. Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 09:56 AM That would be cool, a slow degrade of equipment quality every time you die. Like it starts as 20-40 max damage and goes down to 18-36, then 16-32, etc until its 0-0 and not usable just a thoughtRamza :: 20 monk __________________ I'm sorta back.Dead 62 Brigand of Nagafen Sempiternal "Most people want to be the guy with the title. That's a fair and reasonable goal. It's just not those guys I respect and remember." -Vroheem of Talisman http://www.ccdplace.com/marantz/gnome.jpg

02-19-2005, 05:32 AM	#6
foulpla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	I couldn't agree with you more, I think that the "ATTUNE" system was a bad idea, but now that they've got themselves into a predicament they should try to escape from it gracefully. Excellent discussionjust a thoughtRamza :: 20 Monk __________________ I'm sorta back.Dead 62 Brigand of Nagafen Sempiternal "Most people want to be the guy with the title. That's a fair and reasonable goal. It's just not those guys I respect and remember." -Vroheem of Talisman http://www.ccdplace.com/marantz/gnome.jpg

02-19-2005, 05:40 AM	#8
Lars General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	Yea great idea for MT:s and wizards who drop like flies.....theyd be naked after an good nights gaming __________________ "And i looked and behold a pale horse, and his name that sat on him was SoE, and hell followed with him"

02-19-2005, 05:41 AM	#9
foulpla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Jinsou wrote:This would be way harsh to tanks IMO, who tend to die first in exp groups. Furthermore I don't think the degradation of items is going to alleviate the adventurers who are complaining about attuning, because a degraded piece of armor (at say 50% max durability) would sell just as poorly to a player via the broker system, than it would to an NPC vendor. It is supposed to be a money sink hole and it is supposed to make it less valuable to people, that was their goal with the attuning system, I just feel that attuning made too sharp of a decrease in value of equipment, and this would promote more of a steady decline of a piece of armor's value over time, say you buy it for 50s, die 3x with it in your 5 levels you use it for, its slightly less valuable but still a decent piece of armor, so then you can sell it for say 40s or so. It keeps rare drops useful, and if done responsibly it could be a very efficient and effective system.just a thoughtRamza :: 20 Monk __________________ I'm sorta back.Dead 62 Brigand of Nagafen Sempiternal "Most people want to be the guy with the title. That's a fair and reasonable goal. It's just not those guys I respect and remember." -Vroheem of Talisman http://www.ccdplace.com/marantz/gnome.jpg

02-19-2005, 04:45 AM	#1
VinDark Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	When you die your gear gets "worn" right?What if each time you repaired the equipment it never came back to "as new" ie 100%.First "mend" brought the item back to maximum condition of 90Second mend brings it back to a maximum condition of 80.Third to 70.So on and so forth till you've really given that equipment an absolute flogging and it's time to junk it with an NPC merchant to at least recoup some of the money you spent on it.This way through normal use items will leave the market.Tradeskillers will still have a market selling NEW gear never worn before. Adventurers will still be able to pass on equipment when they outgrow it if they havent died a lot and ruined the condition of the gear!Plus is a MUCH more plausible situation than having to attune to everything and pass on nothing. Items will still pass out of the market, but its the best of both worlds.---- EDIT ----Here's a revision to the idea which was posted further down the thread... pasted up here to make it easier to track:What if the max condition was to go down by 1 each mend instead of 10?ie First mend max condition 99Second mend max condition 98Third 97... etc etcThat way you'd get 100 mends whilst wearing an item then it's useless. If you let things run down till they fall off you (condition 0) and if the amount of deaths you can have before you cant equip the item is "condition divided by 10 (rounded up)"you'd have 550 deaths before an item is unrepairable and unequipable.For special things such as hallmark items and powerful quest items they should be attuneable - which of course means non-tradeable... and have it so that attuneable items do not suffer the effects of mending (they're magic after all right?) Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 11:59 AM

02-19-2005, 04:54 AM	#3
VinDark Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	Yeah that was the idea - wasnt going to talk about the "salvaging" part as I figured that is a battle for another day.... the important part is to rid the world of this "attune to everything" problem first.The idea is that each time you mend, the condition of your items is not as good as it was when you bought it brand new.Over time, and many deaths later the armor is shoddy and unequippable, the sword is bent all out of shape and so dull it's now a crushing weapon.... the jewelery's catch broke and I'd be damned if i could find where that gem went when it popped out of its setting after that last smashing I got.... things like that.Have equipment leave the marketplace through hard use - not through forced attunement. Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 09:56 AM

02-19-2005, 05:11 AM	#5
VinDark Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	It wood be cool if as the condition lowers the usefulness lowers... but I'd imagine it'd be much more coding and decision-making on the dev's behalf to judge how much each item loses at each condition level, then the sheer number crunching involved to implement.What I'm suggesting here is as a quick fix is to just drop the "attuning to everything" idea and adopt the simple method of making condition of an item more important than what it currently is.As it stands, condition means "oh i gotta go mend that soon". If this proposed change was adopted then it would still mean "oh i gotta go mend that soon" but will also mean "hmm may need to replace this soon" too.Stimulates the market, allows people to hand off items to others (if they havent trashed it through use themselves!) and makes a lot of sense too.

02-19-2005, 05:33 AM	#7
Jinsou Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 22	This would be way harsh to tanks IMO, who tend to die first in exp groups. Furthermore I don't think the degradation of items is going to alleviate the adventurers who are complaining about attuning, because a degraded piece of armor (at say 50% max durability) would sell just as poorly to a player via the broker system, than it would to an NPC vendor.

02-19-2005, 05:54 AM	#10
Verdyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 25	How about making certain items indestructable so that way the only stuff that degenerates are the replaceable stuff. That way, Heritage quests and very difficult items don't need to be replaced but the smaller stuff does, giving more business to those who craft them in the first place. __________________

02-19-2005, 05:56 AM	#11
Kuroitsuki Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 162	Bad Idea.... see SWG for a CF... things are soooo bad people just don't want to be AS / WS cos it is crap.... you spend all your play time crafting.But I agree that as it stands the "attune" system needs a tweak...My Idea is a "Deattune" NPC in town, the mechanic would be that the NPC will "deattune" an item either for monetary cost or for stats cost, ie the item loses 10% say of the bonuses / AC / damage etc....That is your moneysink without totally killing the re-sale market.Kuroi

02-19-2005, 05:58 AM	#12
foulpla Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Kuroitsuki wrote:Bad Idea.... see SWG for a CF... things are soooo bad people just don't want to be AS / WS cos it is crap.... you spend all your play time crafting.But I agree that as it stands the "attune" system needs a tweak...My Idea is a "Deattune" NPC in town, the mechanic would be that the NPC will "deattune" an item either for monetary cost or for stats cost, ie the item loses 10% say of the bonuses / AC / damage etc....That is your moneysink without totally killing the re-sale market.Kuroi Thats a really good idea too. __________________ I'm sorta back.Dead 62 Brigand of Nagafen Sempiternal "Most people want to be the guy with the title. That's a fair and reasonable goal. It's just not those guys I respect and remember." -Vroheem of Talisman http://www.ccdplace.com/marantz/gnome.jpg

02-19-2005, 05:59 AM	#13
Dimidri General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 89	The attune system is fair to everyone, doesn't punish tanks who already pay the most for armor (the plate ones anyway).

02-19-2005, 06:37 AM	#14
VinDark Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	The only problems with this idea I see being mentioned here is that people who die a lot will be punished.What if the max condition was to go down by 1 each mend instead of 10?ie First mend max condition 99Second mend max condition 98Third 97... etc etcThat way you'd get 100 mends whilst wearing an item then it's useless. If you let things run down till they fall off you (condition 0) and if the amount of deaths you can have before you cant equip the item is "condition divided by 10 (rounded up)"you'd have 550 deaths before an item is unrepairable and unequipable.Quite frankly I think that's more than fair (yes, I'm a tank myself). And it still provides a great incentive to buy new crafted stuff from tradeskillers based upon the condition of what second-hand equipment may have.For special things such as hallmark items and powerful quest items they should be attuneable - which of course means non-tradeable... and have it so that attuneable items do not suffer the effects of mending (they're magic after all right?) Message Edited by VinDarkan on 02-19-2005 11:54 AM