Assassinate ability moved to level 35.

Tatali · 03-23-2005, 06:19 AM

...if you're a monk or bruiser though. Yes, that's right, "Devastation Fist" is the new brawler assassinate skill (for $6 with bloodlines) that they recieve at level 35. While its limited to non-heroic and non-epic target, they get a stronger version of "Assassinate" on a 5 minute reuse timer. Y'know, just like Condemning Blade we get at 38.6 but it deals more damage. I laughed at the assassins who demanded things like Bloodthirster on a 10sec reuse, CB on 1minute, and assassinate on a 5min timer, but now I'm not so sure. If this is the new benchmark for fighter dps/instant kill abilities, those really don't look all that out of line anymore. We're assassins after all, we should be able to assassinate mobs much better than a fighter, right?

Zaraxal · 03-23-2005, 01:23 PM

I have to agree, Even though Assassinate is basically a fluff spell now.. we can not even have the glory of high hits now that Monks and Brusiers have this new spell at lvl 35. Don't get me wrong I love my assassin, I would just like to have a drop in the timers is all. Putting Assassinate at 15 or 30 mins would make it alot more reasonable.

Zaraxal Nightblade

50 Assassin

Guk

Troops of Doom

KapHn8d · 03-23-2005, 07:40 PM

I can only hope this is just an oversight on "their" part. Regardless of class, regardless of level, a 5k+ hit on a 5 minute reuse is devastatingly unbalancing to the game. It will be corrected... count on it.

Silda · 03-23-2005, 07:43 PM

What (if anything) did Assassins get as an ability/combat art with this expansion?

KapHn8d · 03-23-2005, 07:50 PM

As of this morning's patch, you can purchase the recipe books from teh wholesaler in your home tradeskill instance (the books you needed faction for a Nmarr/Brethren yesterday to buy). I don't have a Jeweler, but perhaps someone can go inspect the recipes in the Ancient K'lorn knowledge books with their jeweler and see if any of the skills match assassin?

Sabinemo · 03-23-2005, 08:59 PM

I heard it is a haste and agil buff like bleeders talent. Someone was saying that as of now it stacks with bleeders giving you 76 percent haste or there about.

khalysta · 03-24-2005, 12:05 AM

Our skill is Honed Reflexes. At app4 its 28% haste for just over a minute with a 300 second reuse timer and stacks with merciless villainy. It's a nice skill but not a 5 min version of assassinate SMILEY

Message Edited by khalysta on 03-23-2005 11:05 AM

Kizee · 03-24-2005, 12:21 AM

I love how they give a skill like that to a tank class that already out DPS's us but yet they wont reduce the timers on assassinate or any other of our high timer abilities. :smileysad:

UnitedtoDestr · 03-24-2005, 12:38 AM

Here is a link to the skill....I dont understand why it does so much dmg...

http://img82.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img82&image=devastationfists4hi.jpg

Tatali · 03-24-2005, 01:07 AM

Why it does so much damage? Because the code says something like, "Get the current HP of the target, then deal exactly that much damage to it." So a level 35 brawler who has this skill and Everfrost access can find a way to sneak down in Permafrost where the sub-50 solo ice gaint are and assasssate them one every 5 minutes. Assassins... a class you'd sort of expect to have an ability to outright kill weaker enemies... don't have anything at all like this. Even "Assassinate" can't one shot most exp mobs. I'd even say its something most predators should have, rangers can snipe off mobs with headshots while assassins knife them in the back. SOE didn't think this one through at all, or they put in a really botched implementation of it.

ChaoticDecree · 03-24-2005, 01:10 AM

It's a sad day for me when the number 1 damage on my server gets replaced by a 47 monk. I can be out-damaged as it is, and now I've lost my one claim to fame SMILEY

kerra · 03-24-2005, 01:56 AM

Tataline wrote:
Why it does so much damage? Because the code says something like, "Get the current HP of the target, then deal exactly that much damage to it." So a level 35 brawler who has this skill and Everfrost access can find a way to sneak down in Permafrost where the sub-50 solo ice gaint are and assasssate them one every 5 minutes.

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate.

Sorry to jump into your boards guys I thought you should know.

EDIT: Why are you guys not [Removed for Content] that a lvl 35 Brigand hit for 13,415?

Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-2005 01:03 PM

Tatali · 03-24-2005, 02:01 AM

*Humor* Dev 1: Well, its time to discuss these new bloodlines combat arts. I made this one that will instantly kill mobs and I think it is fitting for predators since they're assassins and rangers, what do you all think? Dev 2: Give it to monks! It would make mine uber! Dev 3: Ya, that sound great for my brawler! Dev 4: I agree, bruisers are a DPS class anyway, so this instant kill should go to them. Dev 1: Um, are you guys sure? I mean, it's pretty much what assassins do after all... its their lvl50 skill but an improvement. Dev 2: No one here plays scouts, why waste something like that? Dev 3: I think i'm going to go nerf scouts now actually, I'll see you all later tonight. Dev 4: If assassins wanted to instant kill mobs and be a dps class, they should have just made a brawler. Brawlers do almost twice the dps and can tank. Dev 3: (shouts from down the hall) It will be 3x more dps next patch! Muhahaha! */Humor*

Shidip · 03-24-2005, 02:26 AM

kerra wrote:

You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate.

Sorry to jump into your boards guys I thought you should know.

EDIT: Why are you guys not [Removed for Content] that a lvl 35 Brigand hit for 13,415?

Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-200501:03 PM

lol. When did assassinate become cool?? Unless you also think our poo cloud looks cool too.

They only cool thing about it, is it put Assassins in top magic hit spots, but now that is not the case with this Monk skill.

I think any Assassin in here would gladly trade our "uber end-game skill" for your level 35 skill.

Im not saying that your skill is awesome or over powered...just that it is better than our level 50 skill. Its basically a slap in the face from SOE.

kerra · 03-24-2005, 02:40 AM

Shidipoo wrote:

Im not saying that your skill is awesome or over powered...just that it is better than our level 50 skill. Its basically a slap in the face from SOE.

Kinda like Guardians having more avoid than us huh.:smileywink:

Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-2005 01:42 PM

Tatali · 03-24-2005, 02:48 AM

kerra wrote:
You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate.

Then why are lvl 35 monks posting they're assassinating lvl38 mobs? Are they lying just to make it look better than it is?

kerra · 03-24-2005, 02:52 AM

Tataline wrote:

Then why are lvl 35 monks posting they're assassinating lvl38 mobs? Are they lying just to make it look better than it is?

Yeah I made the mistake as well but the mob was even to me however, it does say in the skill discrip that this spell is good upto level 50 but I would assume the monk would have to be 50 as well.

Zaraxal · 03-24-2005, 03:01 AM

The only reason I can think of why they would give the fighters this new high damage combat art was to get another $5.00 out of everyones pocket. Thats what it really comes down to. No one over level 45 would have bought this add on if they didnt add this. I think it is a pretty weak concept to add something like this that totally throws off the balance issues that was already there. Also a hates buff, which is nice, is no where near what the other classes get.

Zaraxal Nightblade

50 Assassin

Guk

Troops of Doom

Arjin · 03-24-2005, 03:31 AM

Keep in mind that the devs have stated recently that they are looking at class damage to make sure that warriors are not outdamaging scouts. I could be that scouts are getting a bump in the very near future, or the changes are at least close enough to be in place that this new monk/brawler skill won't matter once those changes are in place. Perhaps with the scouts getting their damage bumped up, this new skill will seem less powerful, so they kept it in.

I know this a "glass is half full" outlook, but I am hopeful that the devs realize that scouts, and specifically the predators, are severly underpowered. Rangers are even more gimped that assassins.

Arj

Mattil · 03-24-2005, 03:42 AM

That may be...but at what cost? If they make us all stronger then all they have done is make MOBs easier and leave the imballance. Seems better to help us and leave them alone.

Message Edited by Mattilla on 03-23-2005 02:42 PM

Weasel23 · 03-24-2005, 05:51 PM

Screw the fighters. Why is a lvl 35 brigand at 13k damage and a lvl 38 wizard at 11k damage? I looked these 2 characters up. Both have no gear on and they were both created on march 21. That's 3 days ago people.

excuse me, warlock not wizard

Kaycee Krossblade

50 Assassin

----

Nektulos

Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-200504:54 AM

Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 04:54 AM

KapHn8d · 03-24-2005, 07:21 PM

1 to 35/38 in a few days.

Wow.

Darqz · 03-24-2005, 07:32 PM

Weasel,

Do you mind linking what your talking about? I'm sure there is a logical explanation for such things happening such as they managed to pull the damage off of a well timed HO or such. I looked through and did not see the 38 warlock or the 35 brigands on the few servers I pinged off of.

To others,

I don't know if I speak for the assassin group when I say this but I always welcome positive feedback and information from other groups. With this being said I wish to point out a few things. No where did SOE ever say that Assassin's will always do the top damage. Part of the reason for HOs were to allow other classes to get that high damage spike that we enjoy on a daily basis. Should we be up there 90% of the time? Yes, but thats just my opinion about what the class should be and how it should be defined, kinda like how the Wiz/Warlocks feel they should always do insane damage. One problem I've seen and this is on the test server forums as well, is that many of the fighter classes feel like they are getting shafted worse than we are. While we offer the ability to spin HOs, evac, disarm, etc they feel that the only thing they bring to the table is damage and the ability to get hit. At higher levels of the game the Guardian is the primary raid tank. Now I'm not going to dive into this because I don't want to stray too far off the topic, but people that play bruisers and such now have another skill to at least offer to the table when they go on thier 45+ raids. Over all, all classes are feeling this class envy pain. Scouts are envious that most classes do like or more damage in the high end game. Fighters are envious within their own ranks because one class takes better damage than other fighters or does more damage than other fighters. Some people in the mage area are mad that they can’t do 10k nukes from the start and be in the number one damage area. I’m not sure what the clerics are angry about but I’m sure there is something. I know we aren’t mad that bruisers got this skill. Many of us don’t want to see another or any class get nerfed. What the biggest problem that many of us do see is that other classes are getting higher melee damage skills than that of a class that was designed to do the damage. Not only that but the problem is, for example, with this spell is that another class has basically “taken” the identity that many of us hold dear. Just like when scouts found that grouping with troubies/dirges allowed us to tank by pushing the agility past the 200pt marker and our dodge/evade skills went through roof. The fighter classes went into an uproar and soon scouts dodge/avoidance were “brought into perspective” and agility was nerfed across the board. Scouts were not meant to tank mobs. With this being said it is a bruiser/monk’s role to do damage to gain agro in a group as a tank, but when you start giving them skills that do an assassin’s job of “killing a weaker enemy”, do high damage, and put it on a lower timer; it should be expected that hard feelings are stirred up and complaints are made. Assassin’s get a weaker version of this at 50 that not only has a ridiculous timer but also only works on mobs that are much weaker. I’m sure that any bruiser that is reading this (or any class for that matter) would wonder why SOE would give an assassin the ability to mitigate damage like that of say a guardian on mobs of equal or lower creation all the way up to 50 and put that skill on a 5 minute reuse timer. (that was a hypothetical example). I for one wouldn’t mind letting bruisers have this skill if it was designed as a weaker version to assassinate and put on similar restrictions. After all in a pinch, the bruiser could use that as a last minute ditch effort to keep agro or save the group as the MT. Lets hope the future revamps or promised skills assist us instead of pouring salt into some of our open wounds.

Weasel23 · 03-24-2005, 08:21 PM

I in no way staed that assassins should be the top. Man did you miss the point. To add to this, with the right gear, a bruiser can outdamage an assassin any time if he knew what he was doing. I had a bruiser in my raid once. He outdamaged Zalak the Ancient outright. Assassins need a fix and we need it now.

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player_swrankings_detailed.vm?action=CharacterAgg. getByRankSwide&rank=magicHitRankSwide&type=HighestMagicalHit

Kaycee Krossblade

50 Assassin

Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 07:23 AM

Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 07:31 AM

Qa · 03-24-2005, 08:51 PM

This is a joke, right?

ha?

...

kerra · 03-24-2005, 11:00 PM

KapHn8d wrote:

1 to 35/38 in a few days.

Wow.

That right there is why everyone of you guys are PO'ed ...I think this monk said it best.

Grabaan wrote:
So far, this spell is good for two things:

1) Giving monks the chance to compete in the realm of magical hits (which is unimportant despite everyone constantly pining over appearing on the charts) Sure, I'm number one on the chart for my server right now, but do I feel that makes me uber? Hell no.

In fact, I could care less that I'm on the chart, but it sure means a lot to some people.

2) This attack is great for killing solo adds. Case in point: Rivervale. Lots of single, non arrow mobs running around there that can be quite annoying. Very satisfying to knock them out in one hit when they decide to add themselves to what ever group encounter you may be fighting.

What it boils down to is this is an extremely limited attack which happens to spam a lot of damage under the right circumstances. We pay the price for this damage by becoming completely stifled from using additional attacks for 30 seconds, plus unable to use the attack again for 5 minutes. A high price to pay for an attack that has usefulness on roughly 10% of the encounters in the game.

Ask yourself if your self worth is based on the flawed statistics of EQ2players.com, and then decide whether its really that big of a deal. Either way, I expect everyone will whine about it until we dissapear from the top 10 magical hits so that everyone can stroke their own egos.

I'm off to go tank something ~

Peace

syniste · 03-24-2005, 11:35 PM

kerra wrote:

KapHn8d wrote:

1 to 35/38 in a few days.

Wow.

That right there is why everyone of you guys are PO'ed ...I think this monk said it best.

Grabaan wrote:
So far, this spell is good for two things:

1) Giving monks the chance to compete in the realm of magical hits (which is unimportant despite everyone constantly pining over appearing on the charts) Sure, I'm number one on the chart for my server right now, but do I feel that makes me uber? Hell no.

In fact, I could care less that I'm on the chart, but it sure means a lot to some people.

2) This attack is great for killing solo adds. Case in point: Rivervale. Lots of single, non arrow mobs running around there that can be quite annoying. Very satisfying to knock them out in one hit when they decide to add themselves to what ever group encounter you may be fighting.

What it boils down to is this is an extremely limited attack which happens to spam a lot of damage under the right circumstances. We pay the price for this damage by becoming completely stifled from using additional attacks for 30 seconds, plus unable to use the attack again for 5 minutes. A high price to pay for an attack that has usefulness on roughly 10% of the encounters in the game.

Ask yourself if your self worth is based on the flawed statistics of EQ2players.com, and then decide whether its really that big of a deal. Either way, I expect everyone will whine about it until we dissapear from the top 10 magical hits so that everyone can stroke their own egos.

I'm off to go tank something ~

Peace

No offence, but you're an idiot. A level 35 monk doing 13,000 damage and then being stifled, where they are then forced to use their superior base melee attack damage (since scouts have a what, -30% or so damage penalty pre-strengh modifier?)... that's completely [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].Put it on a 1hr timer, then you'll know where I'm coming from.With this ability on a 1hr timer, it's still easily 2x the DPS potential as our level 50 Assassinate, which MAXES OUT around 6k-ish... and you think being stifled for 30 sec makes much difference when you can already dish out more base melee than our nerfed 'DPS' class?I'll take your 35 level, 5min reuse ability and you can have my 50 level, 1hr reuse ability Any Day Of The Week. I don't know where you get 10% from, but I want some of what you're on. There's plenty of group encounters with multiple mobs that have no ^'s.

Darqz · 03-25-2005, 12:45 AM

Weasel,

If you re-read my post I only directed the request for links from you. The rest of the post was placed towards all that read. I didn't disagree with anything you said I just relayed my view on things. If you would re-read what I wrote I basically stated that Bruisers are defending thier skills because they use damage as a taunt. While many of us out there think we should do the most damage all of the time it just wont happen. As for being outdamaged by a tank that will happen to almost everyone post 45. Scouts in general have a serious fall in damage post 43 and it gets worse as the resists to piercing and slashing goes up. Only when our heavy hitters are up do we pose any kind of serious damage towards a mob and even then we may barely outdamage a tank that isn't going at its fullest. My post does say though that part of the reason that we are outraged is because of the damage that is done and the definition of this skill given to bruisers. Again, if you re-read my post and think I'm disagreeing with you or stating that we are fine the way we are right now then let me know. I'll be glad to re-edit my post and make it clearer for you to read.

kerra · 03-25-2005, 01:45 AM

synister9 wrote:
I'm speaking of tanks in general when I say this, but 50 assassin vs 50 tank and the tank will have to do a fraction of the button pushing we need to do and still out dps us on raid mobs. It's a known fact. I play my assassin well, and I can out-dps most tanks currently at 41 - but there are slashing and piercing immune mobs out there.

Yay - I can be guild photographer and take screen shots. Sweet.

This is way off topic though. The topic being that a level 35 tank should not have such a strong dps ability on a 5 min reuse time. Period. I don't care about charts and ranking... I'm talking pure DPS which is NOT on any charts. How can you explain a tank class already on the verge of out-DPS'ing a DPS class being given this ability?

/Off Topic

Look Syn I for one am In Favor of your big skill timer being reduced, I love your class and over all think a party is better with you over most other DPS classes out there. I have very good friend that has a level 24 assassin that has that level 24.6-assassin skill at master one and is dishing out almost 1k points on damage on most mobs. How many other classes have this type of ability at level 24? The majority of other classes know that you have this ability but just accept it because you are assassins and technically at level 24, you have only been an assassin for four levels but that is unimportant.

/On Topic

As far as slashing piercing mobs being resistant, trust me when I say as a monk I feel your pain I have spent every dime I have and had T5 rare crafted in slashing, crushing, and piercing just to make sure that I always have the right equipment just to help keep my toon viable in raid situations. (Pre crafter patch so now I have to do it again :smileymad: )

A level 35 tank with an ability to make him a crappy tank to me is just not a great ability. My fear is that all these level 35 monks are going to start using this skill and getting parties wiped out because they can not taunt, AOE, Buff or anything after and in essence making the class look like crap, its bad enough we are considered second best to Guardians as it is.

As I said before I cannot explain, why we were given this skill I have had no problems with our damage out-put and from what I see on our forums, it has never been an issue. Here is what I do see the Scout line of class is the most important class to a party, you people start the killer HO's, in most cases out DPS us and just about every other class out there and have IMO great utilities.

/Just my final opinion

Monks to the normal gamer forming a group never saw us as a tank class they saw us more like scouts that suck because we have no evac and could be out DPS'ed by the majority of the scout classes so in essence to them we were useless. The majority of us have to go out there every day and prove that we are tanks and that plain old just sucks, there is no question of what your role is every time you join a group. Short story long, you can have this skill because I think it is going to have more negative effects that positive.

Arevirrr

Edit: my crappy grammer and spelling:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by kerra on 03-24-2005 12:57 PM

Shidip · 03-25-2005, 03:06 AM

kerra,

Dude. This is really not about the Monks and their problems. This is about Assassins and our problems. Try to remember what forum you are in.

Also...most of us do not care about the lower level game play. Our issues revolve around the end-game. A lot of our end game skills are either bugged or total crap.

kerra wrote:

...Here is what I do see the Scout line of class is the most important class to a party, you people start the killer HO's, in most cases out DPS us and just about every other class out there and have IMO great utilities...

[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]...are you serious?? Most Assassins average around 150-160 DPS. Most fighters and conj average slighly better than that and Wiz/Warlock average in the mid to high 200s

I agree that SOME scouts have great utilities, but again, you are in the Assassin forum...What great utilities do we get??

We start great HO's? wooopie...not that I even agree with that.

Don't come into our forums and preach how good you THINK we are when you obviously have no idea about our issues.

You don't see me coming to your forums and saying how well Monks can stun/stifle epic mobs, FD, self heal, etc... therefore they have nothing to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about.

Again..this has nothing to do with the Monk/Bruiser class...so go Troll somewhere else.

03-24-2005, 12:05 AM	#7
khalysta Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 490	Our skill is Honed Reflexes. At app4 its 28% haste for just over a minute with a 300 second reuse timer and stacks with merciless villainy. It's a nice skill but not a 5 min version of assassinate Message Edited by khalysta on 03-23-2005 11:05 AM

03-24-2005, 12:38 AM	#9
UnitedtoDestr Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 23	Here is a link to the skill....I dont understand why it does so much dmg... http://img82.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img82&image=devastationfists4hi.jpg __________________ WAR IS PEACE IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH SLAVERY IS FREEDOM

03-24-2005, 01:10 AM	#11
ChaoticDecree Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	It's a sad day for me when the number 1 damage on my server gets replaced by a 47 monk. I can be out-damaged as it is, and now I've lost my one claim to fame __________________ The task of the leader is to get his people from where they are to where they have not been. ~Henry Kissinger

03-24-2005, 01:56 AM	#12
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	Tataline wrote: Why it does so much damage? Because the code says something like, "Get the current HP of the target, then deal exactly that much damage to it." So a level 35 brawler who has this skill and Everfrost access can find a way to sneak down in Permafrost where the sub-50 solo ice gaint are and assasssate them one every 5 minutes. You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate. Sorry to jump into your boards guys I thought you should know. EDIT: Why are you guys not [Removed for Content] that a lvl 35 Brigand hit for 13,415? Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-2005 01:03 PM

03-24-2005, 02:26 AM	#14
Shidip Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	kerra wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate. Sorry to jump into your boards guys I thought you should know. EDIT: Why are you guys not [Removed for Content] that a lvl 35 Brigand hit for 13,415? Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-200501:03 PM lol. When did assassinate become cool?? Unless you also think our poo cloud looks cool too. They only cool thing about it, is it put Assassins in top magic hit spots, but now that is not the case with this Monk skill. I think any Assassin in here would gladly trade our "uber end-game skill" for your level 35 skill. Im not saying that your skill is awesome or over powered...just that it is better than our level 50 skill. Its basically a slap in the face from SOE. __________________ Shidisu Aei Desis (GUK)

03-23-2005, 06:19 AM	#1
Tatali Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	...if you're a monk or bruiser though. Yes, that's right, "Devastation Fist" is the new brawler assassinate skill (for $6 with bloodlines) that they recieve at level 35. While its limited to non-heroic and non-epic target, they get a stronger version of "Assassinate" on a 5 minute reuse timer. Y'know, just like Condemning Blade we get at 38.6 but it deals more damage. I laughed at the assassins who demanded things like Bloodthirster on a 10sec reuse, CB on 1minute, and assassinate on a 5min timer, but now I'm not so sure. If this is the new benchmark for fighter dps/instant kill abilities, those really don't look all that out of line anymore. We're assassins after all, we should be able to assassinate mobs much better than a fighter, right?

03-23-2005, 01:23 PM	#2
Zaraxal Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	I have to agree, Even though Assassinate is basically a fluff spell now.. we can not even have the glory of high hits now that Monks and Brusiers have this new spell at lvl 35. Don't get me wrong I love my assassin, I would just like to have a drop in the timers is all. Putting Assassinate at 15 or 30 mins would make it alot more reasonable. Zaraxal Nightblade 50 Assassin Guk Troops of Doom

03-23-2005, 07:40 PM	#3
KapHn8d Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	I can only hope this is just an oversight on "their" part. Regardless of class, regardless of level, a 5k+ hit on a 5 minute reuse is devastatingly unbalancing to the game. It will be corrected... count on it.

03-23-2005, 07:43 PM	#4
Silda General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	What (if anything) did Assassins get as an ability/combat art with this expansion?

03-23-2005, 07:50 PM	#5
KapHn8d Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	As of this morning's patch, you can purchase the recipe books from teh wholesaler in your home tradeskill instance (the books you needed faction for a Nmarr/Brethren yesterday to buy). I don't have a Jeweler, but perhaps someone can go inspect the recipes in the Ancient K'lorn knowledge books with their jeweler and see if any of the skills match assassin?

03-23-2005, 08:59 PM	#6
Sabinemo General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 29	I heard it is a haste and agil buff like bleeders talent. Someone was saying that as of now it stacks with bleeders giving you 76 percent haste or there about.

03-24-2005, 12:21 AM	#8
Kizee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,093	I love how they give a skill like that to a tank class that already out DPS's us but yet they wont reduce the timers on assassinate or any other of our high timer abilities. :smileysad:

03-24-2005, 01:07 AM	#10
Tatali Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	Why it does so much damage? Because the code says something like, "Get the current HP of the target, then deal exactly that much damage to it." So a level 35 brawler who has this skill and Everfrost access can find a way to sneak down in Permafrost where the sub-50 solo ice gaint are and assasssate them one every 5 minutes. Assassins... a class you'd sort of expect to have an ability to outright kill weaker enemies... don't have anything at all like this. Even "Assassinate" can't one shot most exp mobs. I'd even say its something most predators should have, rangers can snipe off mobs with headshots while assassins knife them in the back. SOE didn't think this one through at all, or they put in a really botched implementation of it.

03-24-2005, 02:01 AM	#13
Tatali Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	Humor Dev 1: Well, its time to discuss these new bloodlines combat arts. I made this one that will instantly kill mobs and I think it is fitting for predators since they're assassins and rangers, what do you all think? Dev 2: Give it to monks! It would make mine uber! Dev 3: Ya, that sound great for my brawler! Dev 4: I agree, bruisers are a DPS class anyway, so this instant kill should go to them. Dev 1: Um, are you guys sure? I mean, it's pretty much what assassins do after all... its their lvl50 skill but an improvement. Dev 2: No one here plays scouts, why waste something like that? Dev 3: I think i'm going to go nerf scouts now actually, I'll see you all later tonight. Dev 4: If assassins wanted to instant kill mobs and be a dps class, they should have just made a brawler. Brawlers do almost twice the dps and can tank. Dev 3: (shouts from down the hall) It will be 3x more dps next patch! Muhahaha! /Humor

03-24-2005, 02:40 AM	#15
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	Shidipoo wrote: Im not saying that your skill is awesome or over powered...just that it is better than our level 50 skill. Its basically a slap in the face from SOE. Kinda like Guardians having more avoid than us huh.:smileywink: Message Edited by kerra on 03-23-2005 01:42 PM

03-24-2005, 02:48 AM	#16
Tatali Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	kerra wrote: You have no idea what you are talking about do you?....Read the spell discrip ..."can only kill those of an equal or weaker lvl" not a lvl 35 monk to a lvl 43-45 giant out on EF. In a group fight the monk can instant kill one right ? Yes, but then he is stunned for 30 seconds w/o any avoid and takes full damage for the hit that he gets from the mob. I did this and I was nearly killed because it, not a very smart move to do while soloing. Is it a cool spell, yes but it is but not nearly as cool as assassinate. Then why are lvl 35 monks posting they're assassinating lvl38 mobs? Are they lying just to make it look better than it is?

03-24-2005, 02:52 AM	#17
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	Tataline wrote: Then why are lvl 35 monks posting they're assassinating lvl38 mobs? Are they lying just to make it look better than it is? Yeah I made the mistake as well but the mob was even to me however, it does say in the skill discrip that this spell is good upto level 50 but I would assume the monk would have to be 50 as well.

03-24-2005, 03:01 AM	#18
Zaraxal Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10	The only reason I can think of why they would give the fighters this new high damage combat art was to get another $5.00 out of everyones pocket. Thats what it really comes down to. No one over level 45 would have bought this add on if they didnt add this. I think it is a pretty weak concept to add something like this that totally throws off the balance issues that was already there. Also a hates buff, which is nice, is no where near what the other classes get. Zaraxal Nightblade 50 Assassin Guk Troops of Doom

03-24-2005, 03:31 AM	#19
Arjin Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 21	Keep in mind that the devs have stated recently that they are looking at class damage to make sure that warriors are not outdamaging scouts. I could be that scouts are getting a bump in the very near future, or the changes are at least close enough to be in place that this new monk/brawler skill won't matter once those changes are in place. Perhaps with the scouts getting their damage bumped up, this new skill will seem less powerful, so they kept it in. I know this a "glass is half full" outlook, but I am hopeful that the devs realize that scouts, and specifically the predators, are severly underpowered. Rangers are even more gimped that assassins. Arj

03-24-2005, 03:42 AM	#20
Mattil Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	That may be...but at what cost? If they make us all stronger then all they have done is make MOBs easier and leave the imballance. Seems better to help us and leave them alone. Message Edited by Mattilla on 03-23-2005 02:42 PM

03-24-2005, 05:51 PM	#21
Weasel23 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8	Screw the fighters. Why is a lvl 35 brigand at 13k damage and a lvl 38 wizard at 11k damage? I looked these 2 characters up. Both have no gear on and they were both created on march 21. That's 3 days ago people. excuse me, warlock not wizard Kaycee Krossblade 50 Assassin ---- Nektulos Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-200504:54 AM Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 04:54 AM

03-24-2005, 07:21 PM	#22
KapHn8d Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	1 to 35/38 in a few days. Wow.

03-24-2005, 07:32 PM	#23
Darqz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 74	Weasel, Do you mind linking what your talking about? I'm sure there is a logical explanation for such things happening such as they managed to pull the damage off of a well timed HO or such. I looked through and did not see the 38 warlock or the 35 brigands on the few servers I pinged off of. To others, I don't know if I speak for the assassin group when I say this but I always welcome positive feedback and information from other groups. With this being said I wish to point out a few things. No where did SOE ever say that Assassin's will always do the top damage. Part of the reason for HOs were to allow other classes to get that high damage spike that we enjoy on a daily basis. Should we be up there 90% of the time? Yes, but thats just my opinion about what the class should be and how it should be defined, kinda like how the Wiz/Warlocks feel they should always do insane damage. One problem I've seen and this is on the test server forums as well, is that many of the fighter classes feel like they are getting shafted worse than we are. While we offer the ability to spin HOs, evac, disarm, etc they feel that the only thing they bring to the table is damage and the ability to get hit. At higher levels of the game the Guardian is the primary raid tank. Now I'm not going to dive into this because I don't want to stray too far off the topic, but people that play bruisers and such now have another skill to at least offer to the table when they go on thier 45+ raids. Over all, all classes are feeling this class envy pain. Scouts are envious that most classes do like or more damage in the high end game. Fighters are envious within their own ranks because one class takes better damage than other fighters or does more damage than other fighters. Some people in the mage area are mad that they can’t do 10k nukes from the start and be in the number one damage area. I’m not sure what the clerics are angry about but I’m sure there is something. I know we aren’t mad that bruisers got this skill. Many of us don’t want to see another or any class get nerfed. What the biggest problem that many of us do see is that other classes are getting higher melee damage skills than that of a class that was designed to do the damage. Not only that but the problem is, for example, with this spell is that another class has basically “taken” the identity that many of us hold dear. Just like when scouts found that grouping with troubies/dirges allowed us to tank by pushing the agility past the 200pt marker and our dodge/evade skills went through roof. The fighter classes went into an uproar and soon scouts dodge/avoidance were “brought into perspective” and agility was nerfed across the board. Scouts were not meant to tank mobs. With this being said it is a bruiser/monk’s role to do damage to gain agro in a group as a tank, but when you start giving them skills that do an assassin’s job of “killing a weaker enemy”, do high damage, and put it on a lower timer; it should be expected that hard feelings are stirred up and complaints are made. Assassin’s get a weaker version of this at 50 that not only has a ridiculous timer but also only works on mobs that are much weaker. I’m sure that any bruiser that is reading this (or any class for that matter) would wonder why SOE would give an assassin the ability to mitigate damage like that of say a guardian on mobs of equal or lower creation all the way up to 50 and put that skill on a 5 minute reuse timer. (that was a hypothetical example). I for one wouldn’t mind letting bruisers have this skill if it was designed as a weaker version to assassinate and put on similar restrictions. After all in a pinch, the bruiser could use that as a last minute ditch effort to keep agro or save the group as the MT. Lets hope the future revamps or promised skills assist us instead of pouring salt into some of our open wounds.

03-24-2005, 08:21 PM	#24
Weasel23 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8	I in no way staed that assassins should be the top. Man did you miss the point. To add to this, with the right gear, a bruiser can outdamage an assassin any time if he knew what he was doing. I had a bruiser in my raid once. He outdamaged Zalak the Ancient outright. Assassins need a fix and we need it now. http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/player_swrankings_detailed.vm?action=CharacterAgg. getByRankSwide&rank=magicHitRankSwide&type=HighestMagicalHit Kaycee Krossblade 50 Assassin Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 07:23 AM Message Edited by Weasel23 on 03-24-2005 07:31 AM

03-24-2005, 08:51 PM	#25
Qa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	This is a joke, right? ha? ...

03-24-2005, 11:00 PM	#26
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	KapHn8d wrote: 1 to 35/38 in a few days. Wow. That right there is why everyone of you guys are PO'ed ...I think this monk said it best. Grabaan wrote: So far, this spell is good for two things: 1) Giving monks the chance to compete in the realm of magical hits (which is unimportant despite everyone constantly pining over appearing on the charts) Sure, I'm number one on the chart for my server right now, but do I feel that makes me uber? Hell no. In fact, I could care less that I'm on the chart, but it sure means a lot to some people. 2) This attack is great for killing solo adds. Case in point: Rivervale. Lots of single, non arrow mobs running around there that can be quite annoying. Very satisfying to knock them out in one hit when they decide to add themselves to what ever group encounter you may be fighting. What it boils down to is this is an extremely limited attack which happens to spam a lot of damage under the right circumstances. We pay the price for this damage by becoming completely stifled from using additional attacks for 30 seconds, plus unable to use the attack again for 5 minutes. A high price to pay for an attack that has usefulness on roughly 10% of the encounters in the game. Ask yourself if your self worth is based on the flawed statistics of EQ2players.com, and then decide whether its really that big of a deal. Either way, I expect everyone will whine about it until we dissapear from the top 10 magical hits so that everyone can stroke their own egos. I'm off to go tank something ~ Peace

03-24-2005, 11:35 PM	#27
syniste Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 53	kerra wrote: KapHn8d wrote: 1 to 35/38 in a few days. Wow. That right there is why everyone of you guys are PO'ed ...I think this monk said it best. Grabaan wrote: So far, this spell is good for two things: 1) Giving monks the chance to compete in the realm of magical hits (which is unimportant despite everyone constantly pining over appearing on the charts) Sure, I'm number one on the chart for my server right now, but do I feel that makes me uber? Hell no. In fact, I could care less that I'm on the chart, but it sure means a lot to some people. 2) This attack is great for killing solo adds. Case in point: Rivervale. Lots of single, non arrow mobs running around there that can be quite annoying. Very satisfying to knock them out in one hit when they decide to add themselves to what ever group encounter you may be fighting. What it boils down to is this is an extremely limited attack which happens to spam a lot of damage under the right circumstances. We pay the price for this damage by becoming completely stifled from using additional attacks for 30 seconds, plus unable to use the attack again for 5 minutes. A high price to pay for an attack that has usefulness on roughly 10% of the encounters in the game. Ask yourself if your self worth is based on the flawed statistics of EQ2players.com, and then decide whether its really that big of a deal. Either way, I expect everyone will whine about it until we dissapear from the top 10 magical hits so that everyone can stroke their own egos. I'm off to go tank something ~ Peace No offence, but you're an idiot. A level 35 monk doing 13,000 damage and then being stifled, where they are then forced to use their superior base melee attack damage (since scouts have a what, -30% or so damage penalty pre-strengh modifier?)... that's completely [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].Put it on a 1hr timer, then you'll know where I'm coming from.With this ability on a 1hr timer, it's still easily 2x the DPS potential as our level 50 Assassinate, which MAXES OUT around 6k-ish... and you think being stifled for 30 sec makes much difference when you can already dish out more base melee than our nerfed 'DPS' class?I'll take your 35 level, 5min reuse ability and you can have my 50 level, 1hr reuse ability Any Day Of The Week. I don't know where you get 10% from, but I want some of what you're on. There's plenty of group encounters with multiple mobs that have no ^'s.

03-25-2005, 12:45 AM	#28
Darqz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 74	Weasel, If you re-read my post I only directed the request for links from you. The rest of the post was placed towards all that read. I didn't disagree with anything you said I just relayed my view on things. If you would re-read what I wrote I basically stated that Bruisers are defending thier skills because they use damage as a taunt. While many of us out there think we should do the most damage all of the time it just wont happen. As for being outdamaged by a tank that will happen to almost everyone post 45. Scouts in general have a serious fall in damage post 43 and it gets worse as the resists to piercing and slashing goes up. Only when our heavy hitters are up do we pose any kind of serious damage towards a mob and even then we may barely outdamage a tank that isn't going at its fullest. My post does say though that part of the reason that we are outraged is because of the damage that is done and the definition of this skill given to bruisers. Again, if you re-read my post and think I'm disagreeing with you or stating that we are fine the way we are right now then let me know. I'll be glad to re-edit my post and make it clearer for you to read.

03-25-2005, 01:45 AM	#29
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	synister9 wrote: I'm speaking of tanks in general when I say this, but 50 assassin vs 50 tank and the tank will have to do a fraction of the button pushing we need to do and still out dps us on raid mobs. It's a known fact. I play my assassin well, and I can out-dps most tanks currently at 41 - but there are slashing and piercing immune mobs out there. Yay - I can be guild photographer and take screen shots. Sweet. This is way off topic though. The topic being that a level 35 tank should not have such a strong dps ability on a 5 min reuse time. Period. I don't care about charts and ranking... I'm talking pure DPS which is NOT on any charts. How can you explain a tank class already on the verge of out-DPS'ing a DPS class being given this ability? /Off Topic Look Syn I for one am In Favor of your big skill timer being reduced, I love your class and over all think a party is better with you over most other DPS classes out there. I have very good friend that has a level 24 assassin that has that level 24.6-assassin skill at master one and is dishing out almost 1k points on damage on most mobs. How many other classes have this type of ability at level 24? The majority of other classes know that you have this ability but just accept it because you are assassins and technically at level 24, you have only been an assassin for four levels but that is unimportant. /On Topic As far as slashing piercing mobs being resistant, trust me when I say as a monk I feel your pain I have spent every dime I have and had T5 rare crafted in slashing, crushing, and piercing just to make sure that I always have the right equipment just to help keep my toon viable in raid situations. (Pre crafter patch so now I have to do it again :smileymad: ) A level 35 tank with an ability to make him a crappy tank to me is just not a great ability. My fear is that all these level 35 monks are going to start using this skill and getting parties wiped out because they can not taunt, AOE, Buff or anything after and in essence making the class look like crap, its bad enough we are considered second best to Guardians as it is. As I said before I cannot explain, why we were given this skill I have had no problems with our damage out-put and from what I see on our forums, it has never been an issue. Here is what I do see the Scout line of class is the most important class to a party, you people start the killer HO's, in most cases out DPS us and just about every other class out there and have IMO great utilities. /Just my final opinion Monks to the normal gamer forming a group never saw us as a tank class they saw us more like scouts that suck because we have no evac and could be out DPS'ed by the majority of the scout classes so in essence to them we were useless. The majority of us have to go out there every day and prove that we are tanks and that plain old just sucks, there is no question of what your role is every time you join a group. Short story long, you can have this skill because I think it is going to have more negative effects that positive. Arevirrr Edit: my crappy grammer and spelling:smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by kerra on 03-24-2005 12:57 PM

03-25-2005, 03:06 AM	#30
Shidip Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	kerra, Dude. This is really not about the Monks and their problems. This is about Assassins and our problems. Try to remember what forum you are in. Also...most of us do not care about the lower level game play. Our issues revolve around the end-game. A lot of our end game skills are either bugged or total crap. kerra wrote: ...Here is what I do see the Scout line of class is the most important class to a party, you people start the killer HO's, in most cases out DPS us and just about every other class out there and have IMO great utilities... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]...are you serious?? Most Assassins average around 150-160 DPS. Most fighters and conj average slighly better than that and Wiz/Warlock average in the mid to high 200s I agree that SOME scouts have great utilities, but again, you are in the Assassin forum...What great utilities do we get?? We start great HO's? wooopie...not that I even agree with that. Don't come into our forums and preach how good you THINK we are when you obviously have no idea about our issues. You don't see me coming to your forums and saying how well Monks can stun/stifle epic mobs, FD, self heal, etc... therefore they have nothing to [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about. Again..this has nothing to do with the Monk/Bruiser class...so go Troll somewhere else. __________________ Shidisu Aei Desis (GUK)