Constructive Feedback Only plz!

Ranja · 02-22-2006, 08:35 PM

Jay beat me to one of my posts and he brings up several good points in his. Are we able to do our job effectively? I want to keep this thread focused on the changes that we need to help do our jobs effectively. Remember the proc changes are here to stay so saying stuff like go back to the old way is not going to cut it. I want constructive and creative ideas on things SOE can do to bring us back up to our T1 status and also help us solo effectively. Ony constructive feedback please, becasue as Jay said, if you want to whine and complain there are a ton of other thread out there already (and it is ok to whine and complain. We all need to vent).

OK with that said, here are several things I think we can use to make us more effective.

1. An increase in damage on all of our ranged CAs of about 20%-40%

2. Maybe one or two more frontal melee attacks that do significant amount of damage

3. A root or snare that actually works to keep the mob off of us so we can use our bow CAs while solo

4. A stun that works on ^ mobs as well as no arrow mobs. I think Swashies have this already.

5. Another debuff that debuffs melee skills so we have a chance to survive when going melee with mobs.

6. Point blank shot skill. The higher the skill the less interrupts and misses we would have. The lower the skill the easier it would be for us to get interrupted. Also, factors in the amount of damage we take in factoring interrupts.

7. giev us the ability to summon appropriate level arrows to fill the whole quiver, not just a few arrow. Wtih the new importance of auto-attack and haste this sounds like a good idea

Those are a couple of the top of my head. As good ones are posted I will keep updating this thread. Hopefully, we can get some good ideas and some feedback as to whether we are on the right track.

Elbryan60 Ranger

Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200607:55 AM

Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200608:10 AM

klepp · 02-22-2006, 08:44 PM

the only problem i see, is theyve already made changes we know they arent going to dchange back.. at the risk of making themselves look stupid. Deb. arrow on the move is gone for good. Our traps are gonna only catch 1 mob from now on.. So much for being effective on raid adds ect. The trick shot nerf i wont even try to understand....

prove me wrong dev's.. and do it quick, im nto having fun anymroe and i feel like im wasting my time sitting in front of my computer if im nto having fun.

Cael · 02-22-2006, 08:50 PM

I dont want any more melee attacks. Period the end. If so, ya know, assassin....anyway, I think the easiest fix would be to let us use bows regardless of range. Mob gets in your face, ok, trip fire, sharp shot, whatever, LET ME USE MY BOW IM A RANGER

Ranja · 02-22-2006, 08:54 PM

Caelum wrote:
I dont want any more melee attacks. Period the end. If so, ya know, assassin....anyway, I think the easiest fix would be to let us use bows regardless of range. Mob gets in your face, ok, trip fire, sharp shot, whatever, LET ME USE MY BOW IM A RANGER

That is actaully not a bad one. Maybe a skill called point blank shot that needs to be increased. An actual skill SMILEY the lower the skill the more chance you have to be interrupted or miss. The higher the skill the better chance of success. I will add that one to the list.

Thanks!

Khevy · 02-22-2006, 08:58 PM

Well first they need to take away the cost of being a Ranger. Last night I looked at what it would take to fill up a quiver with Inidum Arrows and it would be abotu 64 gold a night. the cost of poison has gown down since we dont' proc that much, but it is only a matter of time before the alchemists jack up the prices do to reduced volume of sales.

1) giev us the ability to summon appropriate level arrows to fill the whole quiver, not just a few arrow. Also they can just take arrows out the game period. If you got a bow then you shoot it.

2) Give us poisons as an ability. Or make our CA's have different poison effects. Last night I was killed by a level 56 ^ ecounter that could heal. If something can heal then we cannot kill it since our DPS is lower.

3) Significantly raise the amount of damage we do. Get us on par with our Tier 1 counterparts.

4) Allow us to use our bow and CA's point blank range. We are supposed to be ranged Damage, not close combat. Leave the infighting to the assasains.

Ranja · 02-22-2006, 09:17 PM

Again the point blank idea - I like that one. I also like the idea of tier appropriate summon arrows given the upped importance of auto-attack now

Elbryan60 Ranger

Bithnar · 02-22-2006, 09:17 PM

Bentgate,

That skill is already in game, its called focus. I get interupted now and again while trying to sneak in one more bow CA when the mob hits me and interupts me. But yes I think we should be able to use bows at close range since thats what we have been relegated to.

StealthM0 · 02-22-2006, 09:18 PM

I tested my ranger extensively yesteday in solo as well as mixed t5/t6 groups. And I dont have any hard numbers (cause the darn parser crashed) but I can tell you this. We aren't nerfed as bad as you think.

There are a few things I would like to ask SoE to look at though.

Imbued rings:

3% chance to proc is a load of troll waste, I know I had a good 400 encounters yesterday/last night/overnight and not ONCE did my rings proc. This proc rate percentage needs to be raised or they need to change rings back to constantly on OR back to USE with duration only. This 3% chance to proc with a 45 second timer is crap.

Bow ca's:

When I started firing debilitating arrow and went to back up and it displayed interrupted I almost cried. We have zero moving bow ca's now. We at least need one or two MOVING ca's. We aren't meant to stand still and be a melee class taking hits (we dont get heavy armor do we?). I am not saying make our uber dps ca's moving. I am asking that devs look at this and consider a median with maybe lesser damage bow ca's being fired other then stationary.

For BlackGuard, tell your ranger dev friend on test to start soloing instead of sitting still in groups all of the time please. It's obvious his input was group content and not solo conent tested.

Poisons, poisons seem to be proccing the same if not more for me. I am still going through a charge (200 procs) of poison pretty fast (not the 1-3 times a day as I read elsewhere). So poisons are still proccin as they should be. Last night I hit a new record far as arrow usage, I finally wiped out an entire t6 pristine scaled quiver full of makeshift fulginate arrows. One non stop gore fest from 515pm last night to 1am (est when AB went down for 10 minutes) till 955am est today. I decided I was going to thoroughly test these changes before I made any comments regarding the changes.

In conclusion, there are two issues I'd like the devs to at least take a look at, one is the imbued rings are now garbage, you might as well just take the rare and get a nice adept made, or sell it, because its not worth getting a ring made in its present form. They just don't proc...at all. The second being the moving bow ca's, we are rangers, we are not meant to melee, we are meant to stand back and knock the crap out of our target. That is what defines us as a class we have superior bow skills. Well its not so superior when you cant't move 5 feet while shooting, nor at all for that matter. Sure autoattack works on the move, but with the other changes I've noticed (base damage on bows seems lower to me, as in lower then prelu20 postlu19) SoE is changing too much too fast and not taking the variables into account.

Please SoE investigate this issue with imbued rings, cause as it is now imbued rings are worthless and a waste of a good rare imo (I feel like I was ripped off for 1.2plat after the fact. And invesitgate this issue with moving bow ca's. I can't see this as a good thing that these two things are so messed up post lu20.

Lastly quivers, take a close look at these, we should get some type of stat on here, maybe even if its only agi/power, SOMETHING should be on here.

Arrows....even at adept 3 I cant keep enough makeshift fulginate arrows around to last me more then one night of hardcore playing (not raiding just playing). So possibly take a look at this as well, maybe a small increase in the amount made per trigger would help. Maybe it won't I don't know I am just trying to voice my observations constructively. I hope this isn't flamed and read through to see that I do care about rangers and I am trying to be civil about this. There are some changes yet to be made (or un made depending on your view of it).

TwistedFaith · 02-22-2006, 09:23 PM

Please dont ask for more melee skills SMILEY

We're rangers bro, if people want to do T1 DPS with a sword then go a Assasin.

Ranja · 02-22-2006, 09:32 PM

Bithnar wrote:
Bentgate,

That skill is already in game, its called focus. I get interupted now and again while trying to sneak in one more bow CA when the mob hits me and interupts me. But yes I think we should be able to use bows at close range since thats what we have been relegated to.

Yes focus lets us not get interrupted but a point blank skill would let us fire at point blank. Maybe the skill requires a focus check to prevent from being interrupted.

Elbryan60 Ragner

Bithnar · 02-22-2006, 10:16 PM

I guess what I was meaning was that Focus already is used to check for interupts, they just now need to let us use our bow CA's at point blank range and use focus to check if we are inturupted . . . so we agree =)

LoreLady · 02-22-2006, 11:48 PM

1: Have arrows consume only on auto attack2: Add another proc skill3: Increase our dots to hit a second, instead of once every 4 seconds(similar to the necro ones)4: Vastly increase auto attack damage5: Increase all our CA damage so we are on par with t1 without using poisons (we shouldent have to pay for our dps)6: Faster cast times on Stealthy fire, and snipers shot7: Keep casttimes the same, but increase damage on these two abilities8: Increase the damage crafted arrows do9: Change the offensive around so that we can proc melee as well as ranged (also change the assassin one around to 30%)10: Give rangers more backshot type abilities that do moderate/heavy damage11: A ranged sneak attack, similar to longshank (I normally find that I use shadow before stealthy fire because im to far out of range)12: Change around stream of arrows so that we can get closer to the mob. (I find when facing giants I have to stand REALLY far away to cast it)13: Give us an ability to get poisons free - similar to salvage arrows.14: Give us two ranged dots that do not stack with lunging blade or fatal reminder, and keep those two dots for pure melee15: Eliminate the need to find the "sweet spot" inorder to use meleeskills (longshank, fatalreminder etc) and archery abilities16:Give us group buffs (if sorc's can get them why cant we?, Or increase our DPS so we dont need utility)17:Give us something similar to the assassins apply poison, that will stack with our CA18:Increase track (thats what I loved about eq1, I knew what was up int he zone)19:Change the formula on stats, so that agil or str also adds chance to hit.(do the same for casters)20:Give out quests that will give out rares21: Put on an EQ MP3 player (eq1 had one, why not eq2)22: Put on a EQ parser23:Increase the arrows we get for salvaged arrows to 99 for master 224:A teleport attack to get behind the mob and in ranged/melee range (the sweet spot)25:Give attack speed to quivers (similar to EQ1)Im not going on on how ranger should be number 1 class - I just think that preds should be the top single target damage dealers, and mages should be top group target damage dealers. Our skills were geared that way (But now both rangers and assassins need work).I really hope something is done quick.Edit: Got smileys on SMILEY

(: P)

Message Edited by LoreLady on 02-22-200610:49 AM

Blackguard · 02-22-2006, 11:53 PM

Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.

Message Edited by Blackguard on 02-22-2006 12:03 PM

TwistedFaith · 02-22-2006, 11:57 PM

Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.

There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge.

Tomanak · 02-22-2006, 11:58 PM

valleyboy1 wrote:
Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.
There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge.

Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III.

LoreLady · 02-23-2006, 12:02 AM

Well, a reply is a reply none the less. Atleast I have some assurance that something is being done, in the meantime I plan to do some parsings each time I group and post snippits down on what other classes are averaging as oposed to what I am doing. If I am outdamaging everyone,I will post that. If a templar is outdamaging me, I will post that.

Ranja · 02-23-2006, 12:04 AM

Thanks for responding BG. It is good to know you are monitoring the situation. There are alot of parses floating around on this board and the development corner baord that suggest tanks (zerkers, monks, and bruisers) are outdamaging us on a consistent basis. I know this is not meant to be the case and I know there will be some adjustments made. What I and all of my ranger breatheren are worried about is how long these changes may take. Not a single one of us wants to run around as a gimped DPS classes for 6-12 months seeing all of KoS as a lame duck ranger.

If procs were reduced, as I think they shuold have been, I think an immediate and practical solution would be to up the damage on our CAs a bit. As it stands now, our heaviest hitting CA , Triple Shot, (besides Sniper Shot) only does about 700-900 damage and that is if all three shots hit (This is without poison procs). I am no expert on other DPS classes but I am sure their heaviest hitter (with a similar recast time) hits much harder. I think the main problem is that you took away procs from our abilities which were based on procs. The damage from all of our abilities was made on the assumption of the old proc rule. The old proc rule was changed and it therefore made the damage on most of our abilities way underpowered.

I hope we can continue to give good feedback and you can monitor the situation.

Elbryan60 Ranger

Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200611:09 AM

TwistedFaith · 02-23-2006, 12:15 AM

Tomanak wrote:
valleyboy1 wrote:
Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.
There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge.
Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III.

You sure? I have a lvl 60 alchemist and I rememember reading something about the removal of appIII spells (possibly from merchants?)If i'm mistaken then I apologise, maybe because I never make anything except AdeptIII.

FlintAH · 02-23-2006, 12:21 AM

valleyboy1 wrote:
Tomanak wrote:
valleyboy1 wrote:
Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.
There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge.
Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III.
You sure? I have a lvl 60 alchemist and I rememember reading something about the removal of appIII spells (possibly from merchants?)If i'm mistaken then I apologise, maybe because I never make anything except AdeptIII.

You are mistaken

Zeijandi · 02-23-2006, 12:23 AM

My constructive post for the quarter. Yep, this is it, just one. From now on, it will be nothing more than u r teh sux, l2p, qq, etc...Give rangers back the ability to kite. Remove the restriction which keeps rangers glued to the ground while they try to shoot. Kiting takes skill. Situational awareness. It doesn't inflate damage one bit, but it allows a skillfull player to avoid some damage and succeed at difficult challenges. Keep only a couple of arts interruptable, like sniper shot or something, but return the vast majority of them to fireable on the move. I believe this would help to give some skillful players the fun option to attempt difficult encounters without asking the devs to inflate base CA dmg. This won't help rangers who stand and shoot arrows at big mobs for the duration of a raid, but I would like it considered in the 'Nice things to do in Norrath when you're dead' list.

dancingbe · 02-23-2006, 12:29 AM

As a suggestion BG, please try a healthy amount of soloing as opposed to just grouping.Its a bummer that we cant put out much dps in groups any more certainly, but my biggest complaint with the current situation is the inabiltiy to effectively solo.

Bithnar · 02-23-2006, 12:33 AM

BG I would like to make a suggestion.

Dont use all Adept 3 skills, because not everyone can aford them or find the rares to have them made. Use a few sure because we all try to get a few of our more used skills there, but mix em up a few Adept 3's, Adept 1's and App 4's. Also, not sure how your test character are made, ie where they get their gear, but give yourself coin and then buy poisons and arrows and see how fast you go through the coinage to see what we have to do. Buy your poisons/arrows from a broker/vendor like we do, dont just "create" them out of thin air. Using the summoned arrow line is fine though :smileyvery-happy:

SIlly Muffin · 02-23-2006, 12:36 AM

Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY

COMBAT

1. Reduce the cool-down timers for bow procs a tad. These attacks are our bread and butter. Auto-attack with bows is hardly worth it unless you spend a fortune on arrows.

2. Make AGI a useful stat for rangers vs STR again. We are not asking for invunerability but consider this: Use AGI on rangers to mitigate interrupts for bow auto-attack arts rather than resist saves. A ranger may not be able to use a bow in close 100% the time, but a very agile ranger might be able to do so.

3. Allow Rangers (only) to kite again, but limit it. Perhaps a moving ranger will have a far lower chance to hit (or hit with less damage) (– 50% each) while kiting than if they standing still.

4. New ability: “Hidden Path” a 50% chance (based on mob level/agility) to fully break/end a combat versus a non-player mob. Effect a solo ranger becomes invisible and “frozen” for 30s; but all aggro/combat is ended. If grouped; ranger reduced aggro to 0 for him/herself rather then end combat – frozen for 15s Rangers are master of evasion in the wild.

5. Increase the cheap/shot stun to a bit longer with a small percentage to land on heroics. (no not for easy soloability but rather to escape/help group). I’d make it that if a stun lands on a heroic it would break immediately if the mob is it.

UTILITY

1. Bring back some utility. If we cant be T1 then give us back some of the EQ1 utility we enjoyed – especially for soloability

A. Root – snares just don’t last long enough. We are rangers, we use bows and if we are to solo at all we should be able to use them more than 1 shot openers, Scale it with the mob tier (Regular 50% success, heroic 25%, epic 5%)

B. Some sort of mini-quick self heals or bandage use. Rangers are supposed be a bit of a survivalist/jack of all trades (low heal / moderate-long cooldown)

C. Craft poison – I am not asking for legendary / uber poisons but rather the ability to make functional tier appropriate damage poison from say a looted poison gland or stinger etc… (not debuff poisons .etc)

2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tier appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute

3. Scouting. Increase the likelihood of stealthed scout to pass mobs. Especially those lower level than the ranger. Right now invisiblity is useless as it seems almost every mob can see past it. Even grey mobs many levels below the ranger see through invis..

Note: nowhere did I ask for more damage or nerfing another class. I understand and agree that rangers were bit overpowerful. Yet reducing us in DPS to the point we cant solo or meaningfully contribute to DPS beyond that of any other t2-t3 class is untenable. What I am proposing is to make the class a bit more utile and flexible in HOW it fights. We don’t do stand up fights; when we do we try to get away or use our wits and skills.

These ideas may/may not be new. They may be controvertial, but I’d like to see them discussed, as I think they would add some flavour to the class.

Muffin

Message Edited by SIlly Muffin on 02-22-200611:52 AM

Sirlutt · 02-23-2006, 12:37 AM

Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well.

your awesome.. thanks for stopping by.

Star · 02-23-2006, 12:44 AM

A good point mentioned in another thread that I saw was that even if our DPS is in Tier 1 and balanced with Wizards and Warlocks, they still bring, to quote the other poster, "considerably more utility". Wizzies get an Int/Str grp buff. Warlocks get something similar I'm sure. They can root adds if needs be. They bring group buffs to resists. Etc.

So maybe a possible solution, if SOE is dead set that ranger DPS is in Tier 1 and where it should be, is to give us some utility to the group.

I personally would prefer if they put us above the Sorcerers in DPS to compensate for the complete lack of utility we bring to groups other than our DPS.

Sirlutt · 02-23-2006, 12:52 AM

SIlly Muffin wrote:
Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY
2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tear appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute

your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup

TwistedFaith · 02-23-2006, 12:54 AM

Ok i'll give this a go.Core elements that need to be addressed.1. Damage - If a wizard is going to be tossing out Ice Nova and Ball of Lava hitting for 3.5k and 8k damage each then we need CA's to do similar damage. Our combat arts are woefully inadequate at present. Compare the tier 7 wizard spells to the ranger CA's. This would not have been a issue if we had our procs, but without them you will see how gimped the class is at present.2. If we cant rely on posions to proc and procs in general then factoring them into the equation of our DPS shouldnt be done.3. Rangers want to use a bow, we are not assasins, we do not want to be face to face with the mobs 99% of the time. We need a root like a wizard would have. The proc change has hurt rangers soloing because all rangers who knew what they were doing used a stun potion to solo.4. I dont want utility. Yep you heard me, if I wanted utility I would have rolled a bard or rogue class. I want DPS and I want to be matching everyother T1 DPS class.5. Speed. To put it bluntly rangers are totally and utterly annoyed by this entire debacle, something needs to be done as soon as possible.

SIlly Muffin · 02-23-2006, 12:58 AM

SIlly Muffin wrote:
Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY
2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tear appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute

your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup

Oh I didnt know that. I was trying to figure out how "Bounty" was supposed to work. :smileyvery-happy:

However, my point here isnt to give me money easily, but rather a off-set benefit that makes in game sense- be it easier fo rme to get food in wild or perhaps a chance for sellable pelt. etc.. SOmething with more game flavout than just insta-cash.

Muffin

Sydares · 02-23-2006, 12:58 AM

Sirlutt wrote:

your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup

No.

Runewind · 02-23-2006, 01:04 AM

I agree we were overpowered. I logged on last night and it was pretty bad. I imagine we are hit much harder than the devs intended. I'm glad BG is looking into this. I take back the mean things I said about him. I was a bit angry and confused and feeling neglected. Here is my constructive suggestions they're pretty short.First of all I think stun poisons were overpowered so I think they needed to be nerfed for sure I also think that if the weapon speed bug was unintended it's good it was fixed I did notice that 5% meant no where NEAR 5% and I always found that odd so if it's fixed well then fine I'm glad it was fixed.I am going to ask that maybe they change it so that we can proc multiple times on mulit hits again though. I think if they were to maybe say stun poisons can't proc on multi-hits but other procs can maybe things would be evened out more. We wouldn't be super-powered like before but we would be comparable to other T1 classes especially since the weapon speed bug is gone.If that's not an option than I agree all our CAs should be raised in damage if we aren't intended to get 55% of our damage from procs than we need to have an increase in damage to the point where we are intended to be. I think the whole ranger community would be very happy with that. it would save us money and it would mean we were back to T1 DPS. Please do something soon though. Things are pretty ugly out there right now and they really do need to be fixed.I understand that there are other problems that need addressing. Things like zone problems and the like and go ahead and fix those but please try to fix ranger damage as soon as you can. I don't think we can wait for another live update. It's already getting to the point where we can't get groups because we don't do enough damage to be usefull.On a side note does Stream of Arrows count as a multi-hit? Like can we only proc our abilities once in the whole 30 seconds?

Message Edited by TwistedRiddles on 02-22-200612:07 PM

02-22-2006, 08:35 PM	#1
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Jay beat me to one of my posts and he brings up several good points in his. Are we able to do our job effectively? I want to keep this thread focused on the changes that we need to help do our jobs effectively. Remember the proc changes are here to stay so saying stuff like go back to the old way is not going to cut it. I want constructive and creative ideas on things SOE can do to bring us back up to our T1 status and also help us solo effectively. Ony constructive feedback please, becasue as Jay said, if you want to whine and complain there are a ton of other thread out there already (and it is ok to whine and complain. We all need to vent). OK with that said, here are several things I think we can use to make us more effective. 1. An increase in damage on all of our ranged CAs of about 20%-40% 2. Maybe one or two more frontal melee attacks that do significant amount of damage 3. A root or snare that actually works to keep the mob off of us so we can use our bow CAs while solo 4. A stun that works on ^ mobs as well as no arrow mobs. I think Swashies have this already. 5. Another debuff that debuffs melee skills so we have a chance to survive when going melee with mobs. 6. Point blank shot skill. The higher the skill the less interrupts and misses we would have. The lower the skill the easier it would be for us to get interrupted. Also, factors in the amount of damage we take in factoring interrupts. 7. giev us the ability to summon appropriate level arrows to fill the whole quiver, not just a few arrow. Wtih the new importance of auto-attack and haste this sounds like a good idea Those are a couple of the top of my head. As good ones are posted I will keep updating this thread. Hopefully, we can get some good ideas and some feedback as to whether we are on the right track. Elbryan60 Ranger Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200607:55 AM Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200608:10 AM __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

02-22-2006, 08:54 PM	#4
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Caelum wrote: I dont want any more melee attacks. Period the end. If so, ya know, assassin....anyway, I think the easiest fix would be to let us use bows regardless of range. Mob gets in your face, ok, trip fire, sharp shot, whatever, LET ME USE MY BOW IM A RANGER That is actaully not a bad one. Maybe a skill called point blank shot that needs to be increased. An actual skill the lower the skill the more chance you have to be interrupted or miss. The higher the skill the better chance of success. I will add that one to the list. Thanks! __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

02-22-2006, 09:17 PM	#6
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Again the point blank idea - I like that one. I also like the idea of tier appropriate summon arrows given the upped importance of auto-attack now Elbryan60 Ranger __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

02-22-2006, 09:17 PM	#7
Bithnar Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 304	Bentgate, That skill is already in game, its called focus. I get interupted now and again while trying to sneak in one more bow CA when the mob hits me and interupts me. But yes I think we should be able to use bows at close range since thats what we have been relegated to. __________________

02-22-2006, 09:18 PM	#8
StealthM0 General Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Baltimore, Md Posts: 375	I tested my ranger extensively yesteday in solo as well as mixed t5/t6 groups. And I dont have any hard numbers (cause the darn parser crashed) but I can tell you this. We aren't nerfed as bad as you think. There are a few things I would like to ask SoE to look at though. Imbued rings: 3% chance to proc is a load of troll waste, I know I had a good 400 encounters yesterday/last night/overnight and not ONCE did my rings proc. This proc rate percentage needs to be raised or they need to change rings back to constantly on OR back to USE with duration only. This 3% chance to proc with a 45 second timer is crap. Bow ca's: When I started firing debilitating arrow and went to back up and it displayed interrupted I almost cried. We have zero moving bow ca's now. We at least need one or two MOVING ca's. We aren't meant to stand still and be a melee class taking hits (we dont get heavy armor do we?). I am not saying make our uber dps ca's moving. I am asking that devs look at this and consider a median with maybe lesser damage bow ca's being fired other then stationary. For BlackGuard, tell your ranger dev friend on test to start soloing instead of sitting still in groups all of the time please. It's obvious his input was group content and not solo conent tested. Poisons, poisons seem to be proccing the same if not more for me. I am still going through a charge (200 procs) of poison pretty fast (not the 1-3 times a day as I read elsewhere). So poisons are still proccin as they should be. Last night I hit a new record far as arrow usage, I finally wiped out an entire t6 pristine scaled quiver full of makeshift fulginate arrows. One non stop gore fest from 515pm last night to 1am (est when AB went down for 10 minutes) till 955am est today. I decided I was going to thoroughly test these changes before I made any comments regarding the changes. In conclusion, there are two issues I'd like the devs to at least take a look at, one is the imbued rings are now garbage, you might as well just take the rare and get a nice adept made, or sell it, because its not worth getting a ring made in its present form. They just don't proc...at all. The second being the moving bow ca's, we are rangers, we are not meant to melee, we are meant to stand back and knock the crap out of our target. That is what defines us as a class we have superior bow skills. Well its not so superior when you cant't move 5 feet while shooting, nor at all for that matter. Sure autoattack works on the move, but with the other changes I've noticed (base damage on bows seems lower to me, as in lower then prelu20 postlu19) SoE is changing too much too fast and not taking the variables into account. Please SoE investigate this issue with imbued rings, cause as it is now imbued rings are worthless and a waste of a good rare imo (I feel like I was ripped off for 1.2plat after the fact. And invesitgate this issue with moving bow ca's. I can't see this as a good thing that these two things are so messed up post lu20. Lastly quivers, take a close look at these, we should get some type of stat on here, maybe even if its only agi/power, SOMETHING should be on here. Arrows....even at adept 3 I cant keep enough makeshift fulginate arrows around to last me more then one night of hardcore playing (not raiding just playing). So possibly take a look at this as well, maybe a small increase in the amount made per trigger would help. Maybe it won't I don't know I am just trying to voice my observations constructively. I hope this isn't flamed and read through to see that I do care about rangers and I am trying to be civil about this. There are some changes yet to be made (or un made depending on your view of it). __________________ FIX THE RANGER MYTHICAL IN 09! DEVZ KNOW ITS BROKE, GMs KNOW ITS BROKE, SO WHY IS IT STILL BROKE?!? FIX REPEATING ARROWS, AND OUR OTHER BROKEN CA'S! AND READD BY PRODUCT INGOTS, OR REMOVE BY PRODUCT DUSTS!

02-22-2006, 08:44 PM	#2
klepp Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 236	the only problem i see, is theyve already made changes we know they arent going to dchange back.. at the risk of making themselves look stupid. Deb. arrow on the move is gone for good. Our traps are gonna only catch 1 mob from now on.. So much for being effective on raid adds ect. The trick shot nerf i wont even try to understand.... prove me wrong dev's.. and do it quick, im nto having fun anymroe and i feel like im wasting my time sitting in front of my computer if im nto having fun.

02-22-2006, 08:50 PM	#3
Cael General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 137	I dont want any more melee attacks. Period the end. If so, ya know, assassin....anyway, I think the easiest fix would be to let us use bows regardless of range. Mob gets in your face, ok, trip fire, sharp shot, whatever, LET ME USE MY BOW IM A RANGER

02-22-2006, 08:58 PM	#5
Khevy General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 32	Well first they need to take away the cost of being a Ranger. Last night I looked at what it would take to fill up a quiver with Inidum Arrows and it would be abotu 64 gold a night. the cost of poison has gown down since we dont' proc that much, but it is only a matter of time before the alchemists jack up the prices do to reduced volume of sales. 1) giev us the ability to summon appropriate level arrows to fill the whole quiver, not just a few arrow. Also they can just take arrows out the game period. If you got a bow then you shoot it. 2) Give us poisons as an ability. Or make our CA's have different poison effects. Last night I was killed by a level 56 ^ ecounter that could heal. If something can heal then we cannot kill it since our DPS is lower. 3) Significantly raise the amount of damage we do. Get us on par with our Tier 1 counterparts. 4) Allow us to use our bow and CA's point blank range. We are supposed to be ranged Damage, not close combat. Leave the infighting to the assasains.

02-22-2006, 09:23 PM	#9
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Please dont ask for more melee skills We're rangers bro, if people want to do T1 DPS with a sword then go a Assasin.

02-22-2006, 09:32 PM	#10
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Bithnar wrote: Bentgate, That skill is already in game, its called focus. I get interupted now and again while trying to sneak in one more bow CA when the mob hits me and interupts me. But yes I think we should be able to use bows at close range since thats what we have been relegated to. Yes focus lets us not get interrupted but a point blank skill would let us fire at point blank. Maybe the skill requires a focus check to prevent from being interrupted. Elbryan60 Ragner __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

02-22-2006, 10:16 PM	#11
Bithnar Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 304	I guess what I was meaning was that Focus already is used to check for interupts, they just now need to let us use our bow CA's at point blank range and use focus to check if we are inturupted . . . so we agree =) __________________

02-22-2006, 11:48 PM	#12
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	1: Have arrows consume only on auto attack2: Add another proc skill3: Increase our dots to hit a second, instead of once every 4 seconds(similar to the necro ones)4: Vastly increase auto attack damage5: Increase all our CA damage so we are on par with t1 without using poisons (we shouldent have to pay for our dps)6: Faster cast times on Stealthy fire, and snipers shot7: Keep casttimes the same, but increase damage on these two abilities8: Increase the damage crafted arrows do9: Change the offensive around so that we can proc melee as well as ranged (also change the assassin one around to 30%)10: Give rangers more backshot type abilities that do moderate/heavy damage11: A ranged sneak attack, similar to longshank (I normally find that I use shadow before stealthy fire because im to far out of range)12: Change around stream of arrows so that we can get closer to the mob. (I find when facing giants I have to stand REALLY far away to cast it)13: Give us an ability to get poisons free - similar to salvage arrows.14: Give us two ranged dots that do not stack with lunging blade or fatal reminder, and keep those two dots for pure melee15: Eliminate the need to find the "sweet spot" inorder to use meleeskills (longshank, fatalreminder etc) and archery abilities16:Give us group buffs (if sorc's can get them why cant we?, Or increase our DPS so we dont need utility)17:Give us something similar to the assassins apply poison, that will stack with our CA18:Increase track (thats what I loved about eq1, I knew what was up int he zone)19:Change the formula on stats, so that agil or str also adds chance to hit.(do the same for casters)20:Give out quests that will give out rares21: Put on an EQ MP3 player (eq1 had one, why not eq2)22: Put on a EQ parser23:Increase the arrows we get for salvaged arrows to 99 for master 224:A teleport attack to get behind the mob and in ranged/melee range (the sweet spot)25:Give attack speed to quivers (similar to EQ1)Im not going on on how ranger should be number 1 class - I just think that preds should be the top single target damage dealers, and mages should be top group target damage dealers. Our skills were geared that way (But now both rangers and assassins need work).I really hope something is done quick.Edit: Got smileys on (: P) Message Edited by LoreLady on 02-22-200610:49 AM __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

02-22-2006, 11:53 PM	#13
Blackguard Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 686	Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App II spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. Message Edited by Blackguard on 02-22-2006 12:03 PM __________________ Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder Community Relations Manager Custodian of the Nerfbat

02-22-2006, 11:57 PM	#14
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge.

02-22-2006, 11:58 PM	#15
Tomanak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 595	valleyboy1 wrote: Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge. Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III. __________________

02-23-2006, 12:02 AM	#16
LoreLady Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,039	Well, a reply is a reply none the less. Atleast I have some assurance that something is being done, in the meantime I plan to do some parsings each time I group and post snippits down on what other classes are averaging as oposed to what I am doing. If I am outdamaging everyone,I will post that. If a templar is outdamaging me, I will post that. __________________ RIP Oakleaf 1949-2006

02-23-2006, 12:04 AM	#17
Ranja Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,657	Thanks for responding BG. It is good to know you are monitoring the situation. There are alot of parses floating around on this board and the development corner baord that suggest tanks (zerkers, monks, and bruisers) are outdamaging us on a consistent basis. I know this is not meant to be the case and I know there will be some adjustments made. What I and all of my ranger breatheren are worried about is how long these changes may take. Not a single one of us wants to run around as a gimped DPS classes for 6-12 months seeing all of KoS as a lame duck ranger. If procs were reduced, as I think they shuold have been, I think an immediate and practical solution would be to up the damage on our CAs a bit. As it stands now, our heaviest hitting CA , Triple Shot, (besides Sniper Shot) only does about 700-900 damage and that is if all three shots hit (This is without poison procs). I am no expert on other DPS classes but I am sure their heaviest hitter (with a similar recast time) hits much harder. I think the main problem is that you took away procs from our abilities which were based on procs. The damage from all of our abilities was made on the assumption of the old proc rule. The old proc rule was changed and it therefore made the damage on most of our abilities way underpowered. I hope we can continue to give good feedback and you can monitor the situation. Elbryan60 Ranger Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200611:09 AM Message Edited by bentgate on 02-22-200611:09 AM __________________ Elbryan, 90 Half-elf Ranger Thoghmor, 70 Troll Bruiser Rotir, 90 Dark Elf Swash Terrano, 82 Dark Elf Dirge Aymon, 90, Barbarian Shadowknight The Destroyer of Worlds: http://s7.gladiatus.com/game/c.php?uid=84341

02-23-2006, 12:15 AM	#18
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Tomanak wrote: valleyboy1 wrote: Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge. Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III. You sure? I have a lvl 60 alchemist and I rememember reading something about the removal of appIII spells (possibly from merchants?)If i'm mistaken then I apologise, maybe because I never make anything except AdeptIII.

02-23-2006, 12:21 AM	#19
FlintAH Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 382	valleyboy1 wrote: Tomanak wrote: valleyboy1 wrote: Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback.We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will makechanges if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out withhandcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to checkthem out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty muchevery class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll bediscussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not theonly one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. There are no app III spells to the best of my knowledge. Then your knowledge is flawed. As a crafter I can assure you, that a 3rd level combine of a skill up results in an App III. You sure? I have a lvl 60 alchemist and I rememember reading something about the removal of appIII spells (possibly from merchants?)If i'm mistaken then I apologise, maybe because I never make anything except AdeptIII. You are mistaken

02-23-2006, 12:23 AM	#20
Zeijandi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 68	My constructive post for the quarter. Yep, this is it, just one. From now on, it will be nothing more than u r teh sux, l2p, qq, etc...Give rangers back the ability to kite. Remove the restriction which keeps rangers glued to the ground while they try to shoot. Kiting takes skill. Situational awareness. It doesn't inflate damage one bit, but it allows a skillfull player to avoid some damage and succeed at difficult challenges. Keep only a couple of arts interruptable, like sniper shot or something, but return the vast majority of them to fireable on the move. I believe this would help to give some skillful players the fun option to attempt difficult encounters without asking the devs to inflate base CA dmg. This won't help rangers who stand and shoot arrows at big mobs for the duration of a raid, but I would like it considered in the 'Nice things to do in Norrath when you're dead' list. __________________ Zeijandi Thunderstalker 80 Ranger Division of Anarchy Aggro-monkey of Death Neriakithicor

02-23-2006, 12:29 AM	#21
dancingbe Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	As a suggestion BG, please try a healthy amount of soloing as opposed to just grouping.Its a bummer that we cant put out much dps in groups any more certainly, but my biggest complaint with the current situation is the inabiltiy to effectively solo.

02-23-2006, 12:33 AM	#22
Bithnar Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florence, KY Posts: 304	BG I would like to make a suggestion. Dont use all Adept 3 skills, because not everyone can aford them or find the rares to have them made. Use a few sure because we all try to get a few of our more used skills there, but mix em up a few Adept 3's, Adept 1's and App 4's. Also, not sure how your test character are made, ie where they get their gear, but give yourself coin and then buy poisons and arrows and see how fast you go through the coinage to see what we have to do. Buy your poisons/arrows from a broker/vendor like we do, dont just "create" them out of thin air. Using the summoned arrow line is fine though :smileyvery-happy: __________________

02-23-2006, 12:36 AM	#23
SIlly Muffin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY COMBAT 1. Reduce the cool-down timers for bow procs a tad. These attacks are our bread and butter. Auto-attack with bows is hardly worth it unless you spend a fortune on arrows. 2. Make AGI a useful stat for rangers vs STR again. We are not asking for invunerability but consider this: Use AGI on rangers to mitigate interrupts for bow auto-attack arts rather than resist saves. A ranger may not be able to use a bow in close 100% the time, but a very agile ranger might be able to do so. 3. Allow Rangers (only) to kite again, but limit it. Perhaps a moving ranger will have a far lower chance to hit (or hit with less damage) (– 50% each) while kiting than if they standing still. 4. New ability: “Hidden Path” a 50% chance (based on mob level/agility) to fully break/end a combat versus a non-player mob. Effect a solo ranger becomes invisible and “frozen” for 30s; but all aggro/combat is ended. If grouped; ranger reduced aggro to 0 for him/herself rather then end combat – frozen for 15s Rangers are master of evasion in the wild. 5. Increase the cheap/shot stun to a bit longer with a small percentage to land on heroics. (no not for easy soloability but rather to escape/help group). I’d make it that if a stun lands on a heroic it would break immediately if the mob is it. UTILITY 1. Bring back some utility. If we cant be T1 then give us back some of the EQ1 utility we enjoyed – especially for soloability A. Root – snares just don’t last long enough. We are rangers, we use bows and if we are to solo at all we should be able to use them more than 1 shot openers, Scale it with the mob tier (Regular 50% success, heroic 25%, epic 5%) B. Some sort of mini-quick self heals or bandage use. Rangers are supposed be a bit of a survivalist/jack of all trades (low heal / moderate-long cooldown) C. Craft poison – I am not asking for legendary / uber poisons but rather the ability to make functional tier appropriate damage poison from say a looted poison gland or stinger etc… (not debuff poisons .etc) 2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tier appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute 3. Scouting. Increase the likelihood of stealthed scout to pass mobs. Especially those lower level than the ranger. Right now invisiblity is useless as it seems almost every mob can see past it. Even grey mobs many levels below the ranger see through invis.. Note: nowhere did I ask for more damage or nerfing another class. I understand and agree that rangers were bit overpowerful. Yet reducing us in DPS to the point we cant solo or meaningfully contribute to DPS beyond that of any other t2-t3 class is untenable. What I am proposing is to make the class a bit more utile and flexible in HOW it fights. We don’t do stand up fights; when we do we try to get away or use our wits and skills. These ideas may/may not be new. They may be controvertial, but I’d like to see them discussed, as I think they would add some flavour to the class. Muffin Message Edited by SIlly Muffin on 02-22-200611:52 AM

02-23-2006, 12:37 AM	#24
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	Blackguard wrote:Thanks for putting together a thread for constructive Ranger feedback. We are paying close attention to ensure Rangers are fun and will make changes if necessary. I'm even planning on trying a Ranger out with handcrafted gear and App III spells at every 10 level range to check them out. I may not have a Ranger on Live, but I've played pretty much every class in some form so I have an idea of how they work. I'll be discussing my findings with Design afterwards. Of course, I'm not the only one looking at them closely--the mechanics team is as well. your awesome.. thanks for stopping by. __________________ I heart DE Broads

02-23-2006, 12:44 AM	#25
Star Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 481	A good point mentioned in another thread that I saw was that even if our DPS is in Tier 1 and balanced with Wizards and Warlocks, they still bring, to quote the other poster, "considerably more utility". Wizzies get an Int/Str grp buff. Warlocks get something similar I'm sure. They can root adds if needs be. They bring group buffs to resists. Etc. So maybe a possible solution, if SOE is dead set that ranger DPS is in Tier 1 and where it should be, is to give us some utility to the group. I personally would prefer if they put us above the Sorcerers in DPS to compensate for the complete lack of utility we bring to groups other than our DPS. __________________

02-23-2006, 12:52 AM	#26
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	SIlly Muffin wrote: Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY 2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tear appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup __________________ I heart DE Broads

02-23-2006, 12:54 AM	#27
TwistedFaith Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 892	Ok i'll give this a go.Core elements that need to be addressed.1. Damage - If a wizard is going to be tossing out Ice Nova and Ball of Lava hitting for 3.5k and 8k damage each then we need CA's to do similar damage. Our combat arts are woefully inadequate at present. Compare the tier 7 wizard spells to the ranger CA's. This would not have been a issue if we had our procs, but without them you will see how gimped the class is at present.2. If we cant rely on posions to proc and procs in general then factoring them into the equation of our DPS shouldnt be done.3. Rangers want to use a bow, we are not assasins, we do not want to be face to face with the mobs 99% of the time. We need a root like a wizard would have. The proc change has hurt rangers soloing because all rangers who knew what they were doing used a stun potion to solo.4. I dont want utility. Yep you heard me, if I wanted utility I would have rolled a bard or rogue class. I want DPS and I want to be matching everyother T1 DPS class.5. Speed. To put it bluntly rangers are totally and utterly annoyed by this entire debacle, something needs to be done as soon as possible.

02-23-2006, 12:58 AM	#28
SIlly Muffin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	SIlly Muffin wrote: Ranger Proposals (to get us back to T1 DPS) – Rough suggestions ONLY 2. If we have to pay for DPS allow us some sort of monetary compensation elsewhere. Perhaps the ability to forage half-decent foods in the wild. Again, not on par with the provisioner foods, but again, tear appropriate functional foods. Perhaps the ability to use raws, in part, as a food substitute your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup Oh I didnt know that. I was trying to figure out how "Bounty" was supposed to work. :smileyvery-happy: However, my point here isnt to give me money easily, but rather a off-set benefit that makes in game sense- be it easier fo rme to get food in wild or perhaps a chance for sellable pelt. etc.. SOmething with more game flavout than just insta-cash. Muffin

02-23-2006, 12:58 AM	#29
Sydares Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 700	Sirlutt wrote: your first AA does that for you.. gives you 2-8 silver every 5 mins while fighting... it add sup No.

02-23-2006, 01:04 AM	#30
Runewind Fansite Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 341	I agree we were overpowered. I logged on last night and it was pretty bad. I imagine we are hit much harder than the devs intended. I'm glad BG is looking into this. I take back the mean things I said about him. I was a bit angry and confused and feeling neglected. Here is my constructive suggestions they're pretty short.First of all I think stun poisons were overpowered so I think they needed to be nerfed for sure I also think that if the weapon speed bug was unintended it's good it was fixed I did notice that 5% meant no where NEAR 5% and I always found that odd so if it's fixed well then fine I'm glad it was fixed.I am going to ask that maybe they change it so that we can proc multiple times on mulit hits again though. I think if they were to maybe say stun poisons can't proc on multi-hits but other procs can maybe things would be evened out more. We wouldn't be super-powered like before but we would be comparable to other T1 classes especially since the weapon speed bug is gone.If that's not an option than I agree all our CAs should be raised in damage if we aren't intended to get 55% of our damage from procs than we need to have an increase in damage to the point where we are intended to be. I think the whole ranger community would be very happy with that. it would save us money and it would mean we were back to T1 DPS. Please do something soon though. Things are pretty ugly out there right now and they really do need to be fixed.I understand that there are other problems that need addressing. Things like zone problems and the like and go ahead and fix those but please try to fix ranger damage as soon as you can. I don't think we can wait for another live update. It's already getting to the point where we can't get groups because we don't do enough damage to be usefull.On a side note does Stream of Arrows count as a multi-hit? Like can we only proc our abilities once in the whole 30 seconds? Message Edited by TwistedRiddles on 02-22-200612:07 PM __________________