Haste cap and dual wield

[Kelypto]

I've read in other forums that the best delay you can get from 2 handers is 0.8, which at the haste cap (100%) means that the most efficient damage you can do is with a 1.6 delay weapon (at 100% haste gives you a delay of 0..  Does it work the same with dual wield?  Is getting the lowest delay weapon really the smart thing?  If you had 1.2 delay weapons, this would cap out at 50% haste, which is fairly easy to achieve, and you would be losing damage from any extra haste.  Under this scenario, dual 1.6 delay weapons would be the route to go, since your weapons would be swinging at the same rate as a lower delay weapon at the haste cap, but with more damage.  Thus, I'm using 2 sais (1 cobalt, 1 ebon 1.7 delay each).  The proc damage is greater than a lower delay weapon, which offsets the slower swing.  Does anyone know what the dual wield haste cap is?

[Dejetdude]

I've heard people talk about a .8 haste cap before, but I've have never seen it proven. Does anyone have any data supporting a .8 haste cap? If there is such a cap it would make sense that the type of weapon Dual, 1, or 2 hander wouldn't make a difference, the game machanics should still be the same. It would make sense to keep your weapon speed at 1.6 or higher, if the cap exists. I'm not sure if I understand your proc damage statement, proc damage on the your sai's is greater the a lower delay weapon? I believe procs are still factored over time, and the percent chance to proc is over a 3 second time period, no matter the weapon delay. Unless recent dual weapon updates have changed this. Dejet

[Priestbane]

The reason the proc statement is there is because we don't know if proc per swing percentage is static to the weapon base delay, or calculated based on the modified (hasted) delay.  If it remains static, *and you reach the cap*, you would get better proc percentages based on the slower weapon.  (if you don't reach the cap, the math is linear so delay/3 seconds still comes up with a balanced percentage per swing with the same proc rate)

[Kelypto]

Yes, it is true that the damage listed on the proc is higher for slower delay weapons.  I was comparing two when I bought them, and since the proc damage was higher on the slower weapon, I went with the higher delay since the proc/swing factor was made up for.

[ITZBITZ]

With cobalt, since all the stats are the same, I went with the slowest I could get since the time you're casting CA's counts in the weapon reuse timer. Since I'm usually chaining arts, both weapons are always hitting for 100+ damage when the CA completes and I move onto another one. Before with fast weapons each attack in between CAs was only 70-ish or so. And since they bumped up the damage for DW weapons, I'm very happy.

[Whysprr_Wyrd]

Does the current consensus really favor faster weapons for the pre-CoB crowd?  I haven't seen any systematic analysis. 

 

Whysprr

[Priestbane]

There hasn't been.  And it's quite possible to truly get the best benefit out of CoB is to have somewhat slower weapons due to a hard minimum weapon delay, which is at this point unknown.

[GnarlyDu]

I know in T5 that the leafblades seemed to parse the best so when I reached L40 I got 2 Ebon leafblades.  Going into T6 and seeing our CoB spell I notices that the proc is a fixed amount of damage (or appeared to be) and was per hit.  Based on this it looked like It would be best to have the fastest possible weapon in order to get the most # of procs.  So I bought x2 1.2 delay cobalt imbued short swords.  I did not know there was a min delay cap, to me it makes no sence seing how there is now been haste nerfs where multiple haste items no longer stack.  Anyhow I am wondering if I have made the wrong choice and should have went with the crecent axes instead.  I do know though that when I cast CoB, its an abosolute blaze of melee spam in my window, which I must admit I really like.

[Laromor]

Prior to the combat changes, the majority of our songs had a cast time of 3 seconds.  So, made good sense to have slower weapons, since there was plenty of time for their "swings" to refresh while casting CAs.

Now after the combat changes and cast time of our songs being lowered to 1-2 secs, high delay weapons (like the 2.1 delay leafblades) dont always refresh inbetween CAs, even iwith high haste.

I know that some dirges are able to reach very high haste percentages... and for them, high delay weapons might be the optimal way to go.  But if you arent able to get atleast 50% haste, then I dont think that >1.6 delay is worth it.  Simply because weapons wont refresh between CAs.

And if the delay cap is indeed 0.8, then the above makes sense with CoB as well.  CoB Adept 3 is 45% haste added to the 50%.  This would make a 1.6 delay weapon come in just over 0.8 delay.  Ofcourse again... if you are able to reach an insane haste percentage prior to CoB, then higher delay would make sense... for instance leafblades with 100% haste + 45% from CoB would get to roughly 0.85 delay.

[Priestbane]

Be aware that haste spells don't stack, so unless the CoB haste is exceeding enchanter haste (for example), you won't get any difference.  Regardless, the fact remains that there is no longer the big difference with high delay weapons due to faster art/song execution, and the *advantage* to high delay weapons goes away a bit, but you are not gimped if you DO have a high delay weapon.  The playing field is simply more level.

[Landsurvey]

I do think your right about the 0.8 cap.  I have really seen this since I switched to 2 1.2 delay weapons.  I am not sure your correct about all hastes not stacking.  I know the old rule of thumb was (1) equipment haste + (1) spell/song haste but when I had slower weapons Bravos I am pretty sure stacks also.  But I am one that is happy that our Haste line switched to DPS because of COB.  I use COB everytime it pops and since there is no other haste in the group when it is running it makes a huge impact.

 

I am going to switch weapons though to slower though I think.  Even with just 15% haste and CoB 45% I am not getting full potential out of my weapons.