Wierd!

Peston · 08-15-2006, 09:29 PM

1.Lord Vyemm 270

2.a mutagenic bodyswarmer 265

3.FC 238

4.Chel'Drak the Ancient Lord 228

5.Tarinax the Destroyer 2146.Twinked 190

7.Vilucidae the Priest of Thule 168

8.Darathar 159

9.an ashengaze basilisk 159

10.The Djinn Master 153Shouldnt are buffs to UBER to let the tank down? hehe

terzaghi · 08-15-2006, 09:40 PM

Huh? I don't get it.

Peston · 08-15-2006, 09:41 PM

Its telling you how many people died becuase of those mobs

Llewrend · 08-15-2006, 11:18 PM

Peston wrote:
8.Darathar 159

Argh! My wings!!!

Edit : Our buffs aren't too effective for tanks, atleast since LU13. Dirges buff tanks better than we do, and even so, wipes and deaths from mobs isn't anything that could be prevented by one class's buffs.

Message Edited by Llewrend on 08-15-2006 03:27 PM

terzaghi · 08-15-2006, 11:35 PM

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Peston · 08-16-2006, 09:05 PM

i wonder why... arent we the defencive class and dirges are offensive?

Sanju · 08-16-2006, 10:32 PM

No.And even if we (or dirges) were, how boring would the game be if one class could turn random.noob.tank.423 into Superman?This thread makes Xelus/Xelos/Zelus a saaaad panda.

Message Edited by Sanju on 08-16-2006 01:32 PM

Jait · 08-17-2006, 06:37 AM

Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented.

Or at least in theory...

Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear.

Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh.

Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-2006 07:39 PM

ForgottenFoundling · 08-17-2006, 07:27 AM

Jait wrote:

Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented.

Or at least in theory...

Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear.

Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh.

Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-2006 07:39 PM

If you're gonna whine, whine right...

Our "charm" is the equivalent to their "fear". Our mez was supposed to be a comparable ability to their rez.

Yes troubs are hurting, but for raids one dirge is enough. You can have multiple troubs /afk'in to max dps hate reduction.

Seddo · 08-19-2006, 01:23 PM

Peston wrote:
[...]8.Darathar 1599.an ashengaze basilisk 159[...]

ok thats really wierd. darathar kills about as many ppl as the normal solomob-basilisks in bonemire.... poor darathar, suppose his statistic was better once SMILEY

vinterskugge · 08-19-2006, 07:23 PM

Jait wrote:

Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented.

No no no no no NO NO!

Emerix · 08-23-2006, 12:58 PM

vinterskugge wrote:

Jait wrote:

Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented.

No no no no no NO NO!

Yes ? for the simple fact that we get POM and those silly ''life sucks LALALAA'' dirges get their coco blade thing id say they buff melee chars better than we do .

FatedByChan · 08-23-2006, 04:40 PM

Poor Scafloc, he's been nerfed so bad he's in denial SMILEY

vinterskugge · 08-23-2006, 05:30 PM

Ok, so tell me why scouts wouldn't Alins? It's better than anything a dirge can give them.

Lachlan · 08-23-2006, 08:57 PM

Jait wrote:

Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented.

Or at least in theory...

Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear.

Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh.

Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-200607:39 PM

Unfortunatly, this post is spot on. I'd just add that the distinction between raid Bards nowdays is Troubs for DPS groups and Dirges with Tank groups. I think the "Troub for caster buffs" idea has faded now that proc buffs have been scaled back so much. As many predicted Troubs are a mana battery with hate transfer buff, all stuff you could do /follow go pop a dvd in, check back in an hour. Alin's is the only buff icon that people immediately notice if it's not up. Flower power ftw!

I can't believe that the Dev's are unaware of how far troub dps has sunken. They've reduced dps for a lot of classes and clearly that's how things are going to be. It just happens that Bards didn't have a ton of direct dps to begin with and other utility spells like stiffle and especially mez/charm were nerfed to hell one LU after the proc nerfs. Maybe they'll take another look at how Bard abilities scale up to endgame play but more likely the priority is keeping raid encounters inside of a very narrow, predictable range of difficulty and the fate of one lightly played class isn't worth it for them to monkey with dps much. I think that's the result of laziness or lack of resources and better solutions could be implimented. Not to worry though, new hats are on the way!

Emerix · 08-23-2006, 09:30 PM

well 700 dps is no problem for me and that is noticable in raids .

Lachlan · 08-23-2006, 09:54 PM

Emerix wrote:

well 700 dps is no problem for me and that is noticable in raids .

Good for you. We had another thread about that subject and the general conclusion was if you've got all your important masters, all legendary/fabled gear/lvl 70 with 50AA points then you've beaten the current content and are are just messing around until the next expansion or raiding your troub when not leveling an alt. It doesn't help Troubs who are in the meat of the content mid-50's up to 70 and still accumlating gear and spell upgrades. They aren't doing 700dps and their abilities/buffs have been reigned in heavily by LU24-25; events that are real, not imagined.

Emerix · 08-23-2006, 10:45 PM

i have 2 fabled items on me thank you . and i did 500 dps EASILY when i got to level 70 . if people know how to play their class they arent useless .

vinterskugge · 08-23-2006, 11:15 PM

I can do 900-1100 dps. So what? If I wanted to do dps I'd play my necro.

Emerix · 08-23-2006, 11:21 PM

vinterskugge wrote:

I can do 900-1100 dps. So what? If I wanted to do dps I'd play my necro.

i just said its wrong tha troubys cant do dps .. if you go /af /afk during a raid because you think your dps doesnt matter its just plain wrong >.<

vinterskugge · 08-23-2006, 11:26 PM

I do dkp for my guild. You know why? Because I can alt/tab out to update the site but still be nearly as effective, no other class can do that.

Emerix · 08-24-2006, 02:30 AM

well yea sorry i prefer to focus when i raid and help a bit more .. why complain anyways ? be happy youre such a great buffbot that you dont have to do things yourself .

Peston · 08-24-2006, 07:37 PM

guys im wondering all i wanted know is why were a dps class!

Dorg · 08-25-2006, 07:08 PM

sadly it's true Troubs just aren't what we should be. I've actually watched movies on my second monitor while raiding. we used to be very helpful to casters with our proc line, but with the nerfs on it all we have left for a raid group is mana song and hate reduction.

Zelsabri · 08-29-2006, 04:42 AM

I'm still a newb and only have one toon right now. A level 29 troub. I really enjoy her but if what everyone's saying is true I think I'm going to have to create an alt and try that instead. = This is depressing info.

KongstadPS · 08-29-2006, 04:46 PM

I just made a level 8 troub last night on Nagafen as I really wanted to try out that character though I have been warned constantly not to do it.

Background: 43 Paladin( pve) current main is a 36 warden on nagafen pvp and then i have a retired level 70 ranger on euro darathar pvp.

Now I wanted to roll a troubadour instead of a dirge, but I'm having a hard time seperating the actual usefullness and their roll in pvp aswell as pve and raid groups. I was hoping to clear that out before i leave work to go home and level a useless character. Now I know for sure that I want to make a bard. Would it be wise to roll a dirge instead?

I never had anything against rolling a "bad" class, I always tend to get it to work ( when rangers was useless ) allright for me. But do you sincerely recommend that I drop troub and roll a dirge instead?

What I put weight on is :

Fun class to play
Some Bow Skills
Wanted in groups ( I never saw anyone saying LF Troub SMILEY ) but i mean supplying usefull dps / buffs / whatever

Also I heard someone say that dirge got ressurection and troubadour gets a mesmerize skill. Hows that working out and at what level do you get both skills? I do seem to favour mesmerize to crowd control when a slobby tank or a lazy warlock pulls an extra roamer.

So help me out please SMILEY Stuck here for another 3 hours :S

08-15-2006, 09:29 PM	#1
Peston Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 44	1.Lord Vyemm 2702.a mutagenic bodyswarmer 2653.FC 2384.Chel'Drak the Ancient Lord 2285.Tarinax the Destroyer 2146.Twinked 1907.Vilucidae the Priest of Thule 1688.Darathar 1599.an ashengaze basilisk 15910.The Djinn Master 153Shouldnt are buffs to UBER to let the tank down? hehe __________________ -------------------- Perscitus - Created: March 22, 2005 Wood Elf Ranger Level 70 Oasis - The Awakening

08-15-2006, 09:41 PM	#3
Peston Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 44	Its telling you how many people died becuase of those mobs __________________ -------------------- Perscitus - Created: March 22, 2005 Wood Elf Ranger Level 70 Oasis - The Awakening

08-15-2006, 11:18 PM	#4
Llewrend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	Peston wrote: 8.Darathar 159 Argh! My wings!!! Edit : Our buffs aren't too effective for tanks, atleast since LU13. Dirges buff tanks better than we do, and even so, wipes and deaths from mobs isn't anything that could be prevented by one class's buffs. Message Edited by Llewrend on 08-15-2006 03:27 PM __________________ Llewbador!

08-16-2006, 09:05 PM	#6
Peston Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 44	i wonder why... arent we the defencive class and dirges are offensive? __________________ -------------------- Perscitus - Created: March 22, 2005 Wood Elf Ranger Level 70 Oasis - The Awakening

08-16-2006, 10:32 PM	#7
Sanju Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 305	No.And even if we (or dirges) were, how boring would the game be if one class could turn random.noob.tank.423 into Superman?This thread makes Xelus/Xelos/Zelus a saaaad panda. Message Edited by Sanju on 08-16-2006 01:32 PM __________________

08-15-2006, 09:40 PM	#2
terzaghi Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	Huh? I don't get it.

08-15-2006, 11:35 PM	#5
terzaghi Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 68	Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.

08-17-2006, 06:37 AM	#8
Jait Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented. Or at least in theory... Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear. Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh. Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-2006 07:39 PM

08-17-2006, 07:27 AM	#9
ForgottenFoundling Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 373	Jait wrote: Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented. Or at least in theory... Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear. Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh. Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-2006 07:39 PM If you're gonna whine, whine right... Our "charm" is the equivalent to their "fear". Our mez was supposed to be a comparable ability to their rez. Yes troubs are hurting, but for raids one dirge is enough. You can have multiple troubs /afk'in to max dps hate reduction. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Poofe Fromage the Fragrant - Erudite Troubadour 80 / Tailor 80 - Qeynos - ButcherBlock/Highkeep

08-19-2006, 01:23 PM	#10
Seddo Lord Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Seligenstadt / Germany Posts: 33	Peston wrote: [...]8.Darathar 1599.an ashengaze basilisk 159[...] ok thats really wierd. darathar kills about as many ppl as the normal solomob-basilisks in bonemire.... poor darathar, suppose his statistic was better once

08-19-2006, 07:23 PM	#11
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	Jait wrote: Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented. No no no no no NO NO!

08-23-2006, 12:58 PM	#12
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	vinterskugge wrote: Jait wrote: Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented. No no no no no NO NO! Yes ? for the simple fact that we get POM and those silly ''life sucks LALALAA'' dirges get their coco blade thing id say they buff melee chars better than we do .

08-23-2006, 04:40 PM	#13
FatedByChan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 43	Poor Scafloc, he's been nerfed so bad he's in denial

08-23-2006, 05:30 PM	#14
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	Ok, so tell me why scouts wouldn't Alins? It's better than anything a dirge can give them.

08-23-2006, 08:57 PM	#15
Lachlan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Jait wrote: Dirges are melee oriented. Troubs are caster oriented. Or at least in theory... Raiding Troubs have really gotten the short end of the stick. We've suffered nerf after nerf only to never see a boost despite the other bard class not suffering the same, which is sad considering pre-nerf Troubs were still considered worse off than Dirges. What were left with is two bards. One worth having, and one you kind pf have to laugh at. Maestro and Aria just have not scaled to make them worthwhile, but Cacophany (dirge) rocks. Our Mez/Charm have been nerfed to hell. Dirges get better hate, better haste (dps), stoneskin instead of reflect, rez instead of a 14 sec charm. The only advantage we have is our single-target mez is far better than their Fear. Sorry if it sounds like a whine, was really meant to be an explaination heh. Message Edited by Jait on 08-16-200607:39 PM Unfortunatly, this post is spot on. I'd just add that the distinction between raid Bards nowdays is Troubs for DPS groups and Dirges with Tank groups. I think the "Troub for caster buffs" idea has faded now that proc buffs have been scaled back so much. As many predicted Troubs are a mana battery with hate transfer buff, all stuff you could do /follow go pop a dvd in, check back in an hour. Alin's is the only buff icon that people immediately notice if it's not up. Flower power ftw! I can't believe that the Dev's are unaware of how far troub dps has sunken. They've reduced dps for a lot of classes and clearly that's how things are going to be. It just happens that Bards didn't have a ton of direct dps to begin with and other utility spells like stiffle and especially mez/charm were nerfed to hell one LU after the proc nerfs. Maybe they'll take another look at how Bard abilities scale up to endgame play but more likely the priority is keeping raid encounters inside of a very narrow, predictable range of difficulty and the fate of one lightly played class isn't worth it for them to monkey with dps much. I think that's the result of laziness or lack of resources and better solutions could be implimented. Not to worry though, new hats are on the way!

08-23-2006, 09:30 PM	#16
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	well 700 dps is no problem for me and that is noticable in raids .

08-23-2006, 09:54 PM	#17
Lachlan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 49	Emerix wrote: well 700 dps is no problem for me and that is noticable in raids . Good for you. We had another thread about that subject and the general conclusion was if you've got all your important masters, all legendary/fabled gear/lvl 70 with 50AA points then you've beaten the current content and are are just messing around until the next expansion or raiding your troub when not leveling an alt. It doesn't help Troubs who are in the meat of the content mid-50's up to 70 and still accumlating gear and spell upgrades. They aren't doing 700dps and their abilities/buffs have been reigned in heavily by LU24-25; events that are real, not imagined.

08-23-2006, 10:45 PM	#18
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	i have 2 fabled items on me thank you . and i did 500 dps EASILY when i got to level 70 . if people know how to play their class they arent useless .

08-23-2006, 11:15 PM	#19
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	I can do 900-1100 dps. So what? If I wanted to do dps I'd play my necro.

08-23-2006, 11:21 PM	#20
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	vinterskugge wrote: I can do 900-1100 dps. So what? If I wanted to do dps I'd play my necro. i just said its wrong tha troubys cant do dps .. if you go /af /afk during a raid because you think your dps doesnt matter its just plain wrong >.<

08-23-2006, 11:26 PM	#21
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	I do dkp for my guild. You know why? Because I can alt/tab out to update the site but still be nearly as effective, no other class can do that.

08-24-2006, 02:30 AM	#22
Emerix Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 371	well yea sorry i prefer to focus when i raid and help a bit more .. why complain anyways ? be happy youre such a great buffbot that you dont have to do things yourself .

08-24-2006, 07:37 PM	#23
Peston Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 44	guys im wondering all i wanted know is why were a dps class! __________________ -------------------- Perscitus - Created: March 22, 2005 Wood Elf Ranger Level 70 Oasis - The Awakening

08-25-2006, 07:08 PM	#24
Dorg Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	sadly it's true Troubs just aren't what we should be. I've actually watched movies on my second monitor while raiding. we used to be very helpful to casters with our proc line, but with the nerfs on it all we have left for a raid group is mana song and hate reduction.

08-29-2006, 04:42 AM	#25
Zelsabri General Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1	I'm still a newb and only have one toon right now. A level 29 troub. I really enjoy her but if what everyone's saying is true I think I'm going to have to create an alt and try that instead. = This is depressing info.

08-29-2006, 04:46 PM	#26
KongstadPS Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 90	I just made a level 8 troub last night on Nagafen as I really wanted to try out that character though I have been warned constantly not to do it. Background: 43 Paladin( pve) current main is a 36 warden on nagafen pvp and then i have a retired level 70 ranger on euro darathar pvp. Now I wanted to roll a troubadour instead of a dirge, but I'm having a hard time seperating the actual usefullness and their roll in pvp aswell as pve and raid groups. I was hoping to clear that out before i leave work to go home and level a useless character. Now I know for sure that I want to make a bard. Would it be wise to roll a dirge instead? I never had anything against rolling a "bad" class, I always tend to get it to work ( when rangers was useless ) allright for me. But do you sincerely recommend that I drop troub and roll a dirge instead? What I put weight on is : Fun class to play Some Bow Skills Wanted in groups ( I never saw anyone saying LF Troub ) but i mean supplying usefull dps / buffs / whatever Also I heard someone say that dirge got ressurection and troubadour gets a mesmerize skill. Hows that working out and at what level do you get both skills? I do seem to favour mesmerize to crowd control when a slobby tank or a lazy warlock pulls an extra roamer. So help me out please Stuck here for another 3 hours :S __________________ Lucy Pinder is hot