So is our charm the ONLY one to be nerfed?

Jeger_Wulf · 05-17-2006, 03:27 AM

I have been carrying on a conversation on the Gameplay board, but I thought I would also ask you guys. Coercers can charm and their charm is not being nerfed. Necros can charm undead. As far as I know, their charm is not being nerfed. Furies can charm animals, and as far as I know, their charm is not being nerfed.

I am not knowledgable with all the classes. Is our charm the only one in the game to be nerfed?

Message Edited by mbolme on 05-16-2006 04:28 PM

SeregWethrin · 05-17-2006, 05:01 AM

The goal was to force troubadors to no longer solo. They didnt want troubs to solo greens so they decided to take our two main solo utilities away. They also wanted to make it easier for troubs to play. Its part of the master plan reduce dps to a point where it is useless. I forsee them adding in twisting and autotwisting and reducing us to a /autotwist /follow bot.

Jooneau · 05-17-2006, 10:56 AM

It is one of those things where Lockeye or whoever is in charge for the "control changes" got so completely focused on fixing "control," whatever the ---- that does for them, that they neglected to consider how negatively the change to charm and mez would affect our ability to solo or contribute meaningfully to a group.I am certain that they do all their game design on spreadsheets and don't bother actually playing, because you have to be seriously out of touch with the game to think that an 8 second charm with a 1 minute reuse timer is useful.SOE has a history of having absolutely no clue when it comes to balancing charm in a MMO. Look at EQ1 Enchanter Charm for a classic example of what not to do to a class with charm capabilities.

vinterskugge · 05-17-2006, 11:50 AM

It's not that they hate us or want us to stop playing - we are paying customers after all. I think we've simply been overlooked. Lockeye seems to have gone through every class's control abilities and nerfed them, I just think he was unaware of the huge impact it would have on us.

Snublefot · 05-17-2006, 12:18 PM

Thats what I think too. The dev going trough CC abilities just didnt get it. And most certainly dont play a Troub...

Jeger_Wulf · 05-17-2006, 08:07 PM

I think one problem is the basic assumption that charm is CC.

Mez, root, and stun are all CC. They immobilize the mob without doing any damage to it. Charm is an offensive ability. Our charmed mobs do damage to the enemy. It is true that the charmed mobs no longer do damage to us, but dead mobs don't do damage to us either, but that does not make nukes a form of CC.

Message Edited by mbolme on 05-17-2006 09:25 AM

SeratedEdge · 05-17-2006, 08:52 PM

I think the problem is that bard master charm is the same as coercer master charm, in other words the mobs spells and dot components of CAs are at heroic^^^ level.

Belisarius · 05-17-2006, 09:59 PM

Nerf them all, let the mobs sort them out!

ootpek · 05-18-2006, 06:55 PM

I can't see them leaving charm at 8 seconds duration. It's useless at that duration. They have to change it. It's basically an 8 second mez at that point as the mob wont have much time to react and protect you even. What? Maybe 1 or 2 hits? For a 2.5 second cast? BAH

Bassist · 05-18-2006, 07:12 PM

Now, if we could use it while on the move I can see the usefulness of using it as a first-cast burst DPS on a multi-mob encounter. Obviously only used once per fight since we can't really extend multi-mob fights anymore with mezz.

05-17-2006, 03:27 AM	#1
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	I have been carrying on a conversation on the Gameplay board, but I thought I would also ask you guys. Coercers can charm and their charm is not being nerfed. Necros can charm undead. As far as I know, their charm is not being nerfed. Furies can charm animals, and as far as I know, their charm is not being nerfed. I am not knowledgable with all the classes. Is our charm the only one in the game to be nerfed? Message Edited by mbolme on 05-16-2006 04:28 PM __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

05-17-2006, 05:01 AM	#2
SeregWethrin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	The goal was to force troubadors to no longer solo. They didnt want troubs to solo greens so they decided to take our two main solo utilities away. They also wanted to make it easier for troubs to play. Its part of the master plan reduce dps to a point where it is useless. I forsee them adding in twisting and autotwisting and reducing us to a /autotwist /follow bot. __________________ Maethor

05-17-2006, 12:18 PM	#5
Snublefot Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 208	Thats what I think too. The dev going trough CC abilities just didnt get it. And most certainly dont play a Troub... __________________ Level 81 Troubador Level 71 Provisioner

05-17-2006, 08:07 PM	#6
Jeger_Wulf Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 505	I think one problem is the basic assumption that charm is CC. Mez, root, and stun are all CC. They immobilize the mob without doing any damage to it. Charm is an offensive ability. Our charmed mobs do damage to the enemy. It is true that the charmed mobs no longer do damage to us, but dead mobs don't do damage to us either, but that does not make nukes a form of CC. Message Edited by mbolme on 05-17-2006 09:25 AM __________________ Karc Shadowwalker 80 Illusionist, Najena Jeger Wulf 80 Troubadour, Najena Foster Suncaller 7x Warlock, Najena

05-17-2006, 09:59 PM	#8
Belisarius Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Nerf them all, let the mobs sort them out! __________________ 70 Troubadour, Oasis Troubadours are overpowered! Nerf us!

05-17-2006, 10:56 AM	#3
Jooneau Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 264	It is one of those things where Lockeye or whoever is in charge for the "control changes" got so completely focused on fixing "control," whatever the ---- that does for them, that they neglected to consider how negatively the change to charm and mez would affect our ability to solo or contribute meaningfully to a group.I am certain that they do all their game design on spreadsheets and don't bother actually playing, because you have to be seriously out of touch with the game to think that an 8 second charm with a 1 minute reuse timer is useful.SOE has a history of having absolutely no clue when it comes to balancing charm in a MMO. Look at EQ1 Enchanter Charm for a classic example of what not to do to a class with charm capabilities.

05-17-2006, 11:50 AM	#4
vinterskugge Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 696	It's not that they hate us or want us to stop playing - we are paying customers after all. I think we've simply been overlooked. Lockeye seems to have gone through every class's control abilities and nerfed them, I just think he was unaware of the huge impact it would have on us.

05-17-2006, 08:52 PM	#7
SeratedEdge Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 23	I think the problem is that bard master charm is the same as coercer master charm, in other words the mobs spells and dot components of CAs are at heroic^^^ level.

05-18-2006, 06:55 PM	#9
ootpek Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 144	I can't see them leaving charm at 8 seconds duration. It's useless at that duration. They have to change it. It's basically an 8 second mez at that point as the mob wont have much time to react and protect you even. What? Maybe 1 or 2 hits? For a 2.5 second cast? BAH

05-18-2006, 07:12 PM	#10
Bassist Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 124	Now, if we could use it while on the move I can see the usefulness of using it as a first-cast burst DPS on a multi-mob encounter. Obviously only used once per fight since we can't really extend multi-mob fights anymore with mezz. __________________