Amazing(ly short) Reflexes

[Valer]

It was just a matter of time before they found an excuse to lock the old thread.  With 19 pages it was either lock it quickly, or respond.  And I'm sure he was too busy enjoying that TV I got him, to find the time to reply.  But anyways, as the title implies, Amazing Reflexes in its current state is too short.  5 seconds (5.7 with Tenure) is a blip on the screen, and impossible to time with incoming AEs due to how frequent and sporadic the newer EoF AEs are.  I find myself only staying in to land all my debuffs with old KoS mobs, because those AEs are almost negligible.  If AR procs (and is still up) great, if not oh well.  Eof on the other hand, if it procs (and stays up) Thank Rallos!, if not you and your debuffs are down.  If it procced of melee attacks then 5sec wouldn't be such a problem, but due to our small supply of short recast combat arts were left w/ a very unreliable spell. 

 

I propose that the duration be increased to 10-12 seconds(without Tenure) and the same chance to proc (maybe a little boost if your feeling generous:smileywink: ).  Even though its only double the duration, it would be infinitely more usefully since we would have a wider widow to time AE avoidance, plus it would give our other skills a chance to refresh and proc AR again later.  Instead of avoiding maybe 1 or 2 AEs during the whole raid we could probly avoid around 50-70%(just a raw estimate).  This would give us a chance to actually stay in and land our debuffs and keep them maintained, because I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that I'm brought to raids for my debuffs, not my uber ranged dps. 

 

Other classes will come in here and say "ad4pt n00bs, joust", but to that i reply jousting isn't rely an acceptable option in EoF.  We have 1 ranged CA, our damage is also based on steady dps not huge spikes like assassins (which everyone should reroll btw:smileywink: ), also we cant afford to just sit there out of AE range watching our debuff timers tick away, we have to be in there landing and keeping everything up.  Raiding will eventually become run in.....Dispatch-Devitalize-Rake-GetTheHellOut, afk 1 minute, rinse and repeat.

 

 

 

Message Edited by Valeros on 12-21-2006 03:48 PM

[Magus_Bl]

Maybe our threads wouldn't become "unconstructive" if we had some flipping dev feedback (which afterall, is what the thread was aimed at) somewhere in the 19 pages of the thread.

 

Amazing reflexes stinks.  It's not useful. 

 

Yeah that's not very constructive.  But with all of the constructive posts, suggestions, feedback on this subject that go unanswered, what really is the point of making a constructive post anymore??  Seriously.  Why waste the time and energy if it's just going to get ignored?  What is the motivation for making a constructive post, exactly?  To 'not' get locked?

Pfft.  Puhlease.

Message Edited by Magus_Blue on 12-21-2006 06:03 PM

[Mos]

Nigh 20 pages and no response, even if it's 'Hey, we looked at it again and there will be no change', is unbelievable.  Can you really blame a community of Brigands for getting a bit unruly at this point?  Congratulations on waiting it out until you could find an excuse to lock the thread.  This will not go away however.

 

AR needs to be addressed here and made marginally useful.  Find some middle ground for pete's sake.  There are a ton of ideas tossed out there that are not overpowering at all and 100 times better than it's current useless state.

 

I agree, at the very least, please look at the timer.  5 seconds is just too short of a span to make use of this skill.

a_brigand01

Message Edited by Mos on 12-21-2006 06:25 PM

[tehh4x]

aye if devs dont want to change the proc style of AR the increase of duration would be the best idea seeing that 5.7 seconds WITH tenure is completely unreliable, AEs calls are 10 seconds most of the time, and yea...10 second call with a 5.7 duration leads to 4.3 seconds of us being open to AEs.  most of our skills are 30 seconds+ to recast also and we have ONE ranged attack with a 30 second recast so its kind of hard to continously proc it so we can go in for a couple seconds of DPS, all we need is 1 response of "we are keeping ar and thats that" or something though, seriously. 

[Ether]

Locking the previous thread is in my opinion a low point for developer resiliance.There were many many extremely valuable posts in that thread, despite the final perhaps uncalled for attacks on the powers above.Shame on them both...The reality remains. AR is simply not valuable in its present incarnation. The developers deserve to be criticized here. Its a class defining skill. Either make it valuable or replace it with something that is.

[Samulbrar]

The thread was locked because it degraded into dev bashing, which will always result in a locked thread, regardless of how good it used to be.  If you wish this discussion to continue, then I suggest that you avoid that path at all costs.

This is your only warning.

 

 

[Echozar]

nearly 500 posts complety ignored from devs is not dev bashingits player base bashing.Any reply to the first thread from a dev would be highly apreciatedbut no comment so far. Of course locking threads will justlead to open a new one and the problem will still persist.There are many good solutions for AR in the original Postso please do something...Ekapia LVL70 Brigant Valor

[AratornCalahn]

Its a vicious circle, make poeple angry with a bad dicision, they get upset, then ignored, then abusive, then ignored more openly with a thread lock, then more abusive, then banned, then leave the game meaning less money. In my opinion, fix the bad dicisons Make AR useful or give us something diffrent. Dont let that travesty of a spell continue!!

[Valer]

A duration increase to say...10-12 seconds would be an easy, temporary fix to this whole mess.  It's a win-win situation. Something simple enough that you can slip it into a hotfix, and at the same time appease most of the Brigand community while we wait for a more raid appropriate version of AR.  And at the end of the day doesn't it feel good to know that you did what you could to make others happy?:smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by Valeros on 12-22-2006 04:58 AM

[Tholar]

well there were really nice suggestions for a good Amazing Reflexes...tho to the point of changing it with eof:1) why give some more classes aoe immunity which is better than ours? (through aa trees)2) does aoe immunity mean survivability? because i read a letter from a dev who said that AoE immunity is no longer necessary due to the adjustments to the AoEs, but why point 1) then?3) also the point is, the adjustments to the AoEs, that they no longer 1 shot ppl is not fully true.4) the answers from lockeye (in the class forum thread and in the combat discussion thread) are more than dissappointing. several brigands now tested it and the dont come to the same result as lockeye does. i mean if it would be only 3% of the community, i would agree to lockeye, but its more than only 3% who say that AR is worthless and not proccing like lockeye says (once every 4th combat art).suggestions to solve the problem:look in the nearly 20page thread in this class forum, you will find enough suggestions.and last but not least:5) why dont you give brigands in the aa tree some ancient teaching ability from other dps classes? hurricane for example or applying poison... (but pls not something useless) our aa tree isnt bad, i dont deny that, but some things are just plain stupid (more debuffing for agi/wis poisons or more dmg/health from poisons or for example the faster recast of our invis spell...) im 90 aa now and idk what to spend my points into atm... (yes there are a few options left but pretty worthless imo, like the higher proc chance of AR or the more deaggro of elude [dont get aggro atm, even when i double up dispatch + rake and dont use hideaway], but i guess you read that a lot already on the eof beta forums which are no longer available [god knows why...]...)it would be a start if some dev would actually talk to us brigands on the world brigand channel (guk.brigandworld) and discuss it with us....signing out

[Zagats]

of course I have to add my 2c here...

 

What I'm saying in all threads about AR is that for this ability to be good at all, it must be 2 things:

 

1 - controllable.  let ME decide when I want to use the ability.  this adds some skill of play to the ability as well.  if i have to push it to use it, I have to be paying attention and know when the AoE is going to hit in the first place!

 

2 - reliable.  see #1.  If i can skillfully decide when to push the button to be AoE immune, it will guarantee that my life will be spared.  If I (ME, THE PERSON BEHIND THE KEYBOARD) uses it wrong, I'll have no one to blame but myself.

 

That's all we want, Lockeye.  Give us some kind of answer, please.

[DarkMirrax]

just take AR off us and give us another debuff pls

[Met]

With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.

[DarkMirrax]

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Metza wrote:

With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.

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highly doubtful , care to share HOW ?

[PowertothePeople]

The only thing that I wish they would understand is that the game mechanic of AR is not FUN. Watching to see if it proc'd or not in a buff bar is not FUN. Starring at the buff boxes is not fun, do something that could let us know its up, like they did with charm when it is about to brake, it changes the color of the screen for a sec. Do something to let us know that the buff is up, seriously who ever decided this as a game developer should revisit it and think about what makes a game fun. Games are suppose to be fun and the the game mechanics should let that happen, this buff AR is not a good game mechanic u dont know when its up and u dont know when it will be up.

[Magus_Bl]

Personally all I had really hoped for was something along the lines of:

 

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Blackguard wrote:

And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.

As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here.

---

 

You know...  back in the good ole days when we had a Community Relations Manager that came and calmed everyone down with the 'voice of reason'.  To let this go on for so long, unanswered, unaddressed, is imho [Removed for Content] poor.  Sorry if that's considered dev bashing.  It's not meant to be.  It's intended to be communication of my increasing disappointment with community relations. 

The community here has made it clear that they are unhappy with the change, and that communication has perpetuated long after this change has gone live... so it's not like you're getting a knee-jerk reaction to the nerf bat. 

As stated previously by many here, having this ability as a 5s proc is completely useless.  It might as well say in the description : "You have a random chance to not die".  Gee thanks. 

[Met]

Take a look at other classes buffs and AA's and see what you can come up with. It works and is vey possible. I dont agree with the devs and what they did to AR but sadly I doubt it will change to like they stated were going to have to adapt. If you dont want to spend the time researching into other options take up the idea the Brigand community guy suggested and get some resists lol, I'd say about 12k to be safe

[Magus_Bl]

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Metza wrote:

With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.

---

What do you have?  Two bards jestering you or something?

I'm sure whatever it is, not everyone will have the luxury of this group setup.

[duuf]

Metza wrote:With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope._____________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________/boggle/jaundiced eye/crapola detectorCrapola Detector reports at 100%/sighDuufus lvl70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)Everfrost

[FuzzBall]

Another perfect example of my previous point, Lockeye really doesnt like suggestions or criticism, least from the playerbasehow long until we get a "This thread has hit a nerve and will now be closed" ???[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you moderators, WE WILL BE HEARD

Message Edited by FuzzBall on 12-22-2006 09:40 AM

[Magus_Bl]

 

Super.  IBTL.

Message Edited by Magus_Blue on 12-22-2006 07:44 AM

[Sete Soujiro]

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rtwitty wrote:
Metza wrote:
With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________

/boggle
/jaundiced eye
/crapola detector
Crapola Detector reports at 100%
/sigh

Duufus lvl70 Brig
Duufuss lvl 70 Pally
Duffus lvl 70
LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)
Everfrost

---

 

Your aa's combined with another classes aa's and your looking at about a 63% chance to proc ar is what he is saying.

[Zagats]

do I really have to repeat myself?

 

as long as it's a proc, its unreliable.

give ME the choice to decide when to use the ability, not a random % chance, no matter how large the %.

(unless its 100%, which would put it back to the way it was).

 

adding other class' buffs etc is not really a viable option for many of us, though we have tried this, and it failed

miserably.  We're lucky to have a second bard in the raid ever.  The first one ALWAYS goes to main tank

group.

 

Other than that, I think you're BSing us, Metza.  I'd like proof.  If every other brigand here hasnt figured it out yet,

how about helping your fellow brigands out?

You wont because you cant...because its BS.

[Met]

I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition

Message Edited by Metza on 12-22-2006 04:37 PM

[Harvash]

Well, I knew it wouldnt take long for them to lock the previous discussion.  However, over 450 posts were made - good, bad and ugly - shouldnt this prompt at least a wee bit of investigation on behalf of the dev's?

The point here is simple - a proc on AE resistance is simply not usefull.  Taking our skill away because "we dont need it anymore" and giving it to others is condictory at best - if not needed, then why is it availiable to others /shrug.

I can tell you what has saved me -Safefall.  Last night, in Lyceum, the named with the big flying knockback AE failed to kill me - not because of AR (which I never usefully proc'd in any fashion) but because when the AE hit (taking me to about 10% health) I Fell Softly after hitting the wall IN THE NEXT ROOM.

So, this being said - leave AR as it is and make sure the next round nerf's Safefall to a proc to avoid damage /sarcasm off

We need to be able to enable AR manually to make it usefull. Period. Full Stop. 

[Met]

Yeah i do agree it needs to be a manually activated effect or the proc needs to last 10+ seconds. The method i use works but like someone pointed out a few posts back we cant all have the group setup we want and have to make do with what we are given, luckily i get enough of the required classes. If we ever get a response or some sort of feedback about AR i'll be dispatching the Devs along with the rest of you lol

[Zygwen]

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Metza wrote:

I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition

Message Edited by Metza on 12-22-2006 04:37 PM

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Heh, I told them how to do it but they won't believe me.

[duuf]

Metz wrote:I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/sigh/Leet DetectorLeet Detector unable to verify requested Leetness requested subject may be full of crapola please apply crapola detector/Crapola DetectorCrapola Detector ERROR ERROR Crapola at critical levelsCritical Error Please turn detector off before Crapola overload/sighDuufus lvl 70 brigDuufuss lvl 70 pallyDuffus lvl 70 wizLEET HAX! (Title Conferred by that Greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)

[DarkMirrax]

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Metza wrote:

I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition

Message Edited by Metza on 12-22-2006 04:37 PM

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help the competition ? this is the BRIGAND commuinty ffs rillix if you dont want to help then dont bother posting at all

typical sort of crap you get from a fable members (the self accaimed best euro raiding guild) /sighs

 

 

[DarkMirrax]

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Zygwen wrote:

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Metza wrote:

I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].

 

If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition

Message Edited by Metza on 12-22-2006 04:37 PM

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Heh, I told them how to do it but they won't believe me.

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yup its got to be true right as 1 brigand SAYS he can ? every other one cant ?

/sarcasm off