Post-LU18 Feedback Collection Thread

[ag]

I've posted this update on the community summit forum Brigand issues for the devs attention. Please correct/confirm/deny anything below, please and thank you. As you add updates here, I'll update it there, daily.20051223 (Updated for LU18, includes previous community comments)Note: most of the issues identified here have been outstanding for well over 2 months and/or since the launch of Desert of Flames, whichever is longer.---BRIGAND SPECIFIC-There are problems with Double-Up. Specifically, Double Up requires you to be in a 'different' range than the combat art you're repeating. This is very obvious when trying to Double-Up after Flashy Throw. Please change the Range/requirements on Double Up so it doesn't matter what combat art you're trying to repeat, it will work.-Snoop does not grant "See Stealth" on Brigands. It used to, the description says it's supposed to, and it should. For clarification, the ambush mobs in Clefts of Rujark that Brigands used to be able to see at the launch of DoF cannot be seen now. Other players in stealth also cannot be seen. We have to use a TOTEM to get a sub-class defining ability, because this skill has been broken for so long. Either change the description so it doesn't say "Grants See Stealth to caster" or fix it!-Befuddle Adversaries line needs a proc message and proc graphical/particle effect. Right now we have nothing. We have no idea when this is going off.-Befuddle Adversaries line needs to have a proc rate increase of something like 5-10%, to make it effective. Right now, we draw aggro like no other class, and with a 60 second recast on the Slip line, we have precious few ways to shed aggro. This is noticably worse now that offhand procs are gone.-The Interrupt proc from our Offensive Stance line appears thusly in the logs:

(1133463547)[Thu Dec 01 11:59:07 2005] You quickly advance and distract your opponent!(1133463547)[Thu Dec 01 11:59:07 2005] YOUR Interrupt hits Noble Dojorn for 128 points of slashing damage.(1133463547)[Thu Dec 01 11:59:07 2005] Noble Dojorn is distracted by a quick advance!

Could we have the messages changed to something like:

You quickly advance and Interrupt your opponent!YOUR Interrupt hits $mobname-etc$mobname is interrupted by a quick advance!

As having the words distract and distracted make this appear as though it's tied to the Befuddle line (Distract Adversaries!), which it is not.-Surprise Attack is still causing the Feign Death animation ON THE MONSTER when you cast it. Surely this can't be intentional?-As mentioned below, Sneak should not be "recast" on zoning. I've personally died many times while zoning into a hostile area and appear for a brief moment (long enough for the mobs around me to see me and aggro me) before Sneak re-applies itself (and breaks cause i'm getting the gnome-juice beat out of me!). It should be placed on the Brigand BEFORE the player appears in the zone, not after.-Also, as mentioned below, Double Up needs to be the last 3 seconds, or the last 2 CA's, or something different. If you don't want us to use it to do two CA's, then make it just repeat the most recent CA cast during the past 10 seconds. If we're supposed to be able to use it to repeat the last few CA's, 3 seconds seems a tad more reasonable, given recovery+casting time consumes over half the time elapsed to even USE Double Up.-We need to be able to imbue all sheaths, bandoliers, pouches, and satchels, for all tiers. Just like bows.-Poison should not disappear when mentoring. It should scale down in effectiveness or be suspended (grey out?) until we unmentor.-Poison: We need proc messages for all types of poison, not just direct damage. Something like "You apply (insert type of poison name here) on Target" for debuffs and misc. type poisons. So for debuffs, for example, it would say "You apply hexxing poison on a plated digger" and/or for misc: "You poison a plated digger with sluggish poison", etc. We need a way to verify proc counts and proc rate.-Poison: There should be graphical/particle effects for ALL procs of ALL types, including damage, debuff, and misc. The graphical effects should be distinct for each category, at least.-Poison: All poisons should be single charge items, and when creating them, the number of returns of the combine should be dictated by the quality. So crude returns 3, shaped is 4, normal is 5, and pristine is 7. They should pile up into stacks in your inventory of at least 20, (ideally 99!) per pile.-Poison: The T6 poison vial icons/colors need to be similar to the T5, T4, T3, and T2 icons. That is, they need to vary color by type. Using the same icon is fine, but the colors need to be different. What we do not want is to go back to the situation where poisons and potions use the same icon, as that was just as annoying.-Poison: The misc poisons of Cajoling Whispers and Volatile Virus, and Torment of Rijacki (among others) have 4 procs on them. Proc counts should be as follows: 200 for common Damage + DoT, 100 for Debuffs, and 50 for all Miscellaneous. The misc effects should be changed so that having 50 of them isn't overpowered or 'bad', because having only 4 procs is ludicrous. For example, there's absolutely no harm whatsoever in having 50 procs of Volatile Virus, so why is it just 4? It's just annoying to Alchemists to make something that lasts for 5 minutes (or less) in combat. They won't bother, so the item goes unused. Also, why would you EVER want a mez poison, like Cajoling Whispers? You can't guarantee a proc of it, and even if you could, what's the point? The stun poison does the same thing, (interrupts) so why is the lull effect one even in there?-Poison: The descriptions on all L50-60 poisons need to be updated to include the proc count in the description, like all 3-49 poisons have. We have no idea how many times these poisons should be/are proc'ing!-Poison: A graphical or emote effect when we're applying a poison would be nice. Perhaps the emote-action that alchemists use while at the alchemy table would be appropriate while we're applying? At the moment we just stand there doing nothing.-Poison: Four-proc-count poisons don't show up in the maintained window, and you can't tell when they proc at all. They have no icons when on the monsters and no message of any kind. Completely broken.OTHER ISSUES-A 30 second recast timer on the Lie-Low line would be -really- nice.-Can you drop the cast time on Sneak to 1 second so it provides some differentiation from Snoop, and is something we could use in combat for Run Through? Right now we're lucky if we can use Run Through once per fight, because of the long cast timer on Sneak and the long recast timer on Lie Low. OR Leave Sneak at 2 seconds and change Snoop to 1 second? That'd be fine too.-Personal and Group stealth changes: It'd be nice if green mobs didn't see through invis or stealth, regardless if they have see-invis or see-stealth. I mean, after all, they're green, right? Even if this was just our personal stealth, it would have some value.-All T6 Imbued Cobalt weapons have identical stats after they're imbued. Prior to imbueing, they're correct. After they've been imbued, they're all identical. This is bad. Please retroactively change all imbued cobalt weapons so they have their pre-imbued stats, and just add the proc, like all the other imbued crafted legendary items from T2-T5.-It'd be nice to have some ranged Ammo merchants in the Maj'Dul Courts, or have ammo added to the bursers selling inventory.-When you /yell after engaging an encounter, creatures should exhibit consistent behavior, such as chasing you a fixed distance from the original aggro point or a fixed distance from the /yell point. Right now, it's very random. In some cases, creatures are chasing people across entire zones to kill them or just hit them once and then run away. It should be consistent.-There should be a tooltip in the bank interface explaining how to make change (1p to 100g). The existing mechanism is not intuitive.-Horses should always resummon, as should pets, in any zone that permits it. When? After zoning, using a carpet, or using a Griffon, if they were up when you performed the action. They do not, currently. It's inconsistent.-If harvesting an item is trivial, why do I fail at it? Either remove the trivial message, change it to "you will not gain skill from this action" or make it so if it's trivial, we obtain an item from the harvest node EVERY TIME. For that matter, once you're at your level cap (and can't possibly get any better, no matter how hard you try) why do you fail at all while harvesting? Furthermore, why do you fail harvesting on lower tier harvest nodes? You should not. I can see failing while you're not at your level cap and not in your tier, but that aside, it should be no-fail.-If we cannot modify a faction, please remove it from the faction list until we can modify it.-If we cannot increase our alcohol tolerance, please remove it until we can.-The zone out from Pillars of Flame still doesn't work right. Why has this been reported and broken since DoF beta, and yet remains unchanged?-Please change the lockout timer on the Hidden Cache instance so that it starts after you kill something, not just from zoning in.-Pillars of Flame needs to be instanced. There is tremendous server side latency with 100+ people.Community CommentsKythik:-The slow effect from shrouded blade(ad3 at 22&#37 is not better then Concealed blade (master 1 or 2 at 24&#37. AD3 shrouded blade should be atleast the same % if not slightly better.-Double up needs to be changed to last 2 ca's not last 2 seconds of ca's. this is due to lag on raids. a fair number of the time due to lag you only get 1 ca instead of 2.-Sneak needs to be changed so it doesnt "recast" when you zone. As it is when you zone now you are visible for a short time before you are put back into sneak.-Befuddle Adversaries needs a proc message!-It seems that if a skill misses when you use double up after it, it either doesnt count the skill that missed or that skill auto misses again.Crolack:-When you mentor down to someone and it kills buffs, that it should skip dumping poison/food/drink.Theylive:-The T4 player-made poisons are missing a Large & Very Large up-front DD recipe, because there are three T4 poisons showing as "small" up-front damage (two of which must be incorrectly coded).Dajaan:-I would like all poisons (debuff + misc) to stay for 12h just like the dd,dot poison does, without a counter. If 12h is to long then i would rather like to have it reduced to 3h all together...All replies will be integrated into the Community Summit Forum posting that I maintain there for the backstabbing joy of all Brigands everywhere. Whenever possible, please include date, time, zone, and if the bug or issue is reproducable. Opinion debates will not be incorporated into the consolidated thread. For example, saying "Deceit sucks! You suck! Your Mom sucks! Everything sucks!" is unlikely to bring about any positive changes. Saying "I think Deceit needs to be changed to proc a such-and-such effect rather than increase DPS" would be better.I'll do my best to update this list and repost a new collection thread after every live update, at least.

[Rezikai]

some good points in this post..

 

also I find it hillarious we're such a small community we can post each others names about issues... like here and we all know who and what we're talkign about....lol

 

Brigs suck... =)

Message Edited by Porkchop133 on 12-23-2005 02:29 PM

[heke]

How come brigands and swashbucklers share their stances while eg ranger/assassins don't? This not only means more competition for the master spells than other classes have, it also means the stance is not balanced, as swashbucklers with all their self-haste and ae cas will trigger it about 5-15x as often.

[NemaLVey]

Double-Up should just do the last Combat Art used... period.

Time restraints make it near useless if lagging, or when the npc dies before using Double-Up, in a multi-mob group.

Its range on Double Up is good for "Up to 5m" should be removed completely and replaced with "Depending on Combat Art used" or "Special".

 

This would take care of any and all issues caused by Double Up.

[kyth]

Thuggish Negotiations + Double up does nothing sometimes. Double Up (master 1 astleast) says Evasion instead of Elude. Double Up still seems to randomly pick CA's on occasion not exactly sure why.  Perhaps when a skill misses it picks something else?

Message Edited by kythik on 12-29-2005 09:17 PM

[AratornCalahn]

---

kythik wrote:

Thuggish Negotiations + Double up does nothing sometimes.

---

If there is no target when useing double up (the mob dies for exmpale) it will not let you do it (but the AOE does let you use it with no target) thats another similar problem I guess

[kyth]

    ya it gives you a no valid target message or something then.  that also is lame.

[hoop]

"as swashbucklers with all their self-haste and ae cas will trigger it about 5-15x as often."

 

plz leave swashbucklers out of how to improve brigands. They already swung the bat at us almost evey LU after the revamp. I dont even see how u guys have to much to complain about in the first place.

 

 hoopdee

[Gyilok]

i don't know if it has been brought up before, but our only ranged CA has it's flaw:

description says it does MELEE damage to mob, which means it should do the damage type of the weapon-ammo used, but the CA does pierce only dmg even with used with my pouch/shurikens, which did slashing damage last time i checked

[ag]

Hm, can't confirm that, Gyilok. I use throwing hammers, and I get crushing damage 100% of the time. Perhaps this is a problem with pierce/slashing throwing weapons only?

[Gyilok]

ok, got it figured, her is the deal: pouch and shurikens do piercing damage, on ranged auto attack too, but at the same time, pouch sells listed as SLASHING  weapon on broker (can check for yourselves) so another SOE [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]up revealed

 

 

[Damari]

In prep of LU19.

[ag]

I'm going to be culling that list down pretty severely on Thursday. Specifically, all the mechanics issues and stuff about poisons, as it's possible it will all be moot. As well, I will be putting a date stamp on every issue, as we've gone over 6 months now without most of these problems being addressed. In the past, it was requested the date stamps be removed, but that was the only motivator, it seems, to fixing the problems.As you can probably tell, I'm becoming slightly frustrated at the lack of fixes.

[kyth]

   time stamps are good thing.