Can't decide between Brigand or Swashy

[pillb]

Having trouble deciding between Brigand or Swashy.  What do Brigand's do that Swashy's cant and how much damage dif is between the two? What are the pluses to Brigand since Group invis makes Swash seem really tempting.

Message Edited by pillbub on 11-02-2005 09:14 AM

[Kegofbud]

Brigs get group invis as well, but then again, so do Furies and Illusionists. It's a fairly common skill at higher levels.

Brigs get stuns while Swashes get Mez.

Brigs are masters of the Debuff. Swashes, I hate. :smileywink:

That is all I will add, because there are a lot of posts like yours if you'd like to read more about the topic by searching. If you have to ask, don't be a Brigand is what most of us will say.  :smileyhappy:

[fre'do]

try one and see.

[Prieston]

Brigands have group invis, so I wouldn't base my opinion off of that. The biggest difference I see is stun versus mez.

[ag]

Try Swashbuckler.

[Gyilok]

shwash got good single target, ae and ranged damage if they want, also nice debuffs and are from queynos, what else can you wish for

[DaLurk]

Btw, all Brigs here have rerolled an alt Swashy cause they're far better. We just keep talking here cause it's a bad habit.

[Keldo]

Having played both extensively (Swash to 60 and Brigand to 56) I would say the general feel is the same, but there are differences.  Mostly in how they feel and how they contribute to a fight. Swashbucklers 'feel' much faster than Brigands.  Swashbucklers have many attacks, so many they feel like a twitch class in fights.  Of all those attacks, only two attacks have a recast higher than 30 seconds.  Every fight you or every pull you are using all of your attacks (generally).  All of your attacks are direct damage with no DoT component at all.  You have 2 large area of effect attacks, not encounter based.  Swashbucklers get 2 stuns besides cheap shot, one for 1.5 seconds and one for 3.5 seconds which requires stealth.   Your throwing attack snares as a secondary effect, and at 55 you get a power free ~350 DPS ranged attack.  You can debuff physical mitigation by a medium amount, you can debuff only one magical resist (magic) with snare which dissipates upon attacking, your debuffs are on a fast timer, meaning you can debuff any mob that reaches camp.  You can debuff INT, AGI, WIS and DPS by a large amount.  You can mez for 20 seconds with a 30 second reuse, this is of limited use but handy when the situation dictates.  Your aggro is yours to control, you have many tools to get rid of it and you can easily hold it when necessary.  Overall, the feel of this class is more like an EQ1 rogue, you feel you do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, you feel like you always have to be active in order to be effective.  In a tight situation, you can deal out a massive amount of damage in a short time, but your debuffs are merely supplimentary to your class and your control spell - mez - is largely ineffective in practical use.  This leaves you as damage with benefits, but while your bust damage is probably second to none when all long reuse buffs are blown, that is the extent of your contribution to a tough fight. As far as buffs go, you get the following:  A deaggro proc chance based on hitting the mob, a + DPS + Haste buff, a + large amount of haste + small amount of aggro buff, a + STR + AGI conc buff, an aggro transfer buff, a 13 second buff which does large damage with each melee strike, an offensive and defensive stance, self and group invis, and a conc buff which makes your main hand attacks area effect. Brigands are a control class.  You have the same amount of attacks as swashbucklers, but your best attacks require longer to work than Swash arts.  Most debuffs, which are much better than Swashbuckler debuffs (high amount of physical debuff, high amount of magical debuff - all types), have a reuse time of one minute meaning they will not be used on every mob.  You can debuff STR, AGI and attack speed by a large amount.  Most of your attacks have a DoT component, meaning they take time to add up.  You have only one small area of effect spell, not encounter based.  You get 4 stuns besides cheap shot, meaning you have a much easier time with up arrow solo mobs, and can effectively incapacitate any non epic mob for a long period of time (approx 15 seconds).  Your throwing attack stuns as a secondary effect.    Your aggro is high when using debuffs in succession and your ability to control it is less than a Swash.  You can take aggro easily when you want it and hold it.  Overall I feel Brigands are a better class for an intelligent player, you deal similar damage, although far less in a burst situation, but your control can be matched against an enchanters and vs heriocs you can single handedly turn an extremely difficult fight into a trivial one.  On a raid your debuffs are invaluable and you are a rare class, making you desired and able to impress people who are unfamiliar with your class. As far as buffs go you have the following: A deaggro which drops you 1 position and x threat when you are struck, a + DPS + chance to knockdown/stun, a 'rescue' type effect when you can intercept damage and aggro from another group member, a + STR + physical mitigation conc buff, a conc buff which makes you immune to all area effect attacks which do not directly target you, self and group invis, and an offensive and defensive stance. Doing the Brigand buffs from memory since I'm logged on the Swashbuckler right now, so lemme know if I missed anything !  and lemme know if you have anymore questions, I love both classes to death - I would lean toward brigand if you are raiding type, but otherwise it comes down to personal preference.

Message Edited by Keldoth on 11-03-2005 06:47 PM

[DaLurk]

Kill-Joy. :smileytongue:

[Novalos]

Very well said.  I've played a Brigand up until now knowing full well about my abilities, and not so much about the swash side of the class.  This has cleared up a whole lot for me.

Message Edited by DigitalRaven on 11-04-2005 11:46 AM

[Thro]

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 Overall I feel Brigands . . . control can be matched against an enchanters

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Keldoth,

 

I'm struggling with the decision whether to make a Brigand or a Swashie. I'd prefer to make a Brigand, as my other characters are freeportians, but looking over the classes Swashies just look better on paper. When I read what you wrote here about Brigands being a pseudo-control class it really excited me. But looking over the Brigand spell list I just don't see it. What control are you referring to? If anything, just on paper it looks like Swashies are more of the "enchanterish" of the two with their single-target mez.

 

What am I missing?

[fre'do]

u see throne most of us brigands dont usually talk about the class them more people might play one...u are doing good if we give u a straight answer...i picked this class because i wanted someone from freeport and i have never seen one...but after lvl 6 i realize i loved scout...when i finally got lvl 20 and became a rare class i was happy...of course i was always too high to group with people or too low.. so i learned to solo...i will tell u brigand and a fighter class is a good combination...as long as the figther realizes i can be a agro [Removed for Content] easily and quickly if i mess up.  solo ruse is your best friend...in group stuns, and debuffs are great for helpin the group out..and u have the capability to help the healer and mages out with cuss and ruse if need be.  technically i have only been a brigand for 5 lvls but i considered myself a brigand since i was lvl 3 and became a scout.  most of us will tell u be something else ...we like brigands bein small FIGHT CLUB were we dont complain to much...i bet u wont be unhappy with either class since both classes are under played...and swash is played more then us.

[Aral]

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Throne wrote:

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 Overall I feel Brigands . . . control can be matched against an enchanters

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Keldoth,

 

I'm struggling with the decision whether to make a Brigand or a Swashie. I'd prefer to make a Brigand, as my other characters are freeportians, but looking over the classes Swashies just look better on paper. When I read what you wrote here about Brigands being a pseudo-control class it really excited me. But looking over the Brigand spell list I just don't see it. What control are you referring to? If anything, just on paper it looks like Swashies are more of the "enchanterish" of the two with their single-target mez.

 

What am I missing?

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I think it's probably more accurate to say that we can effectively "control" as in destroy with extreme prejudice and keep stunned a single mob.  The debuffs are very strong, and we have enough stuns, interrupts, and aggro tricks to give some fun tactical options.  We can grab aggro almost at will (debilitate/dispatch plus subdue, double up, it's turning) and can drop our own hate position (as can swashes) as well as dropping a groupmate from aggro (swashes can't).  In group play I often find myself picking a mob that is aggro on a healer or mage and just tearing it's head off, figuratively speaking, via stuns, debuffs, and damage.  While we don't have any single art that is as big as say Ice comet or assassinate, we have a LOT of strong damage arts, and when you get the urge to hurt a mob, you can do it very well. 

Swash is definately much stronger in the ae damage, with very strong single target damage as well.  Inspired daring is just a beast, as is hurricane.  Their debuffs aren't as strong as a brig, but stronger than most classes.  They are much better at keeping agg off themselves, but I don't believe they can grab it at will as well (though if they hit with daring on a mob you've just Dispatched...) and cannot de-agg a groupmate.  

[Keldo]

Well, by control I was referring to debuffs, interrupts, snares, stuns.. all of those are control spells. Brigands get 5 stuns, 2 snares, 2 interrupts and some of the best debuffs in the game.  By contrast, Swashbucklers get 2 stuns, 2 snares, 2 interrupts, 1 mez and moderate debuffs.  In a 6 person group, stuns are the most powerful spells going at this time.  Nothing is better than being able to stun a mob for 15 seconds, that is enough to reduce a high difficulty boss to a mob that barely gets an attack off, and probably why it was the target of a stealth nerf this patch as well.  Swashbuckler mez has a recast longer than its duration.  This means it is basically a short stun, not true crowd control.  Until that changes, Brigands are much more of a control class in my opinion.

[Chakas]

Can't say anything about swashbucklers since I have't walked a foot in their boots, but I do love my brigand.  Soloing hasn't been a problem and now with Master II Trickery (did over 1600 in one hit even though max listed is 15??), followed by stun and 4 rear attacks chained (the str, agil, magic, etc) debuffs + DOT dmg + poison.  Group snare stacks with single (snare + cold debuff) so the target is practically crawling if need breathing room, not to mention the stunning throw attack if need be.  I'm not sure about swashies attacks, but the fact that only one brigand attack requires stealth - the rear Str debuff - makes it nice not having to worry about getting invis all the time like my ranger.

 

Also, in a good group with a good tank, I've never been really able to steal aggro with constant chaining of debuffs and stuns.  Haven't played since today's update (#16) so it's hard to say what might have been screwed over.  My ranger might have the edge in a wide open, add-less area, but indoors in close quarters I'd have to go with the brigand.   Another bonus is since it's one of the least played classes 99% of my skills are adept 1 or better.  ::smileyvery-happy:

 

I would like to know where that 15 sec stun is though....haven't encountered that one up to lvl 36 so far. :smileywink:

 

Guess it just comes down to determining what you like best and where you want to be based

 

Shivin Shivout, 36 Ratonga brigand, Neriak

 

 

 

 

 

[DaLurk]

> I would like to know where that 15 sec stun is though....haven't encountered that one up to lvl 36 so far. I guess it's Subdue+DoubleUp probably maybe.

[MaestroX]

Very nice posts here.  The Rogue class is very well balanced and I don't think you can go wrong here.  It might come down to which town do you want to live in...

My 2c:

 If you spend most of your time in groups, I think the brigand comes out ahead purely based on debuffs (Magic1400, physical 1400, everything 3000).  I am very popular to get invited to Instance groups doing Roost, Poets, Cache'and Cazels right now  because once the debuffs hit, even lvl60+^^^ mobs start to melt with decent dps in the group.  We get through the instances quicker, so we can hit all four in one night.

In raids, the debuffs still work on epics, when mez and stuns do not.  This also the perfect time to mention that Amazing Reflexes allows us to stay in melee range to apply the debuffs by avoiding all non-targeted AE.

[Lyasa]

15s stun. rapid throw (3.5s) + sap (5s) + low blow (4s) + cheap shot (2-6s) = 14.5 - 18.5s of stun (that's at 46, not sure on timers post 50)

so that's pretty nice.

though i did prefer to 100% baffle vs. the new proc'ing baffle... used to love to turn it, hit trick, then watch it either die or go back to tank w/ alot less hp.

[Atrocity]

Go swashy, Brigands are decisive. Vlademir

[Nydysean]

First off, to the person who said that cheap shot will net you 2-6 seconds of stun, I have yet to see it in recent play.  If the mob has any / at all then cheap shot is only an interrupt and nothing more.  As far as what class to choose... go swashie, it is the most popular for a reason right. :smileywink:

[Astragot]

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Atrocity wrote:
Go swashy, Brigands are decisive.

Vlademir

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[Removed for Content] :smileyvery-happy:

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

Go swashie, they're way better.

[ibeo]

it's true

swashies rule

and brigs drool

 

go swashie for sure man

 

[pillb]

I appreciate the replys guys but my Brigand is already 60.  He's 60 for a week now. thanks for the help btw your're right- brigands suck :smileywink:

Message Edited by pillbub on 12-01-2005 11:27 PM

[ag]

You went from 16 to 60 in 3 weeks?Sheesh, did you sleep?

[sorinev]

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agra wrote:You went from 16 to 60 in 3 weeks?Sheesh, did you sleep?

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You can get to 20 in 5 hours or so after creation via collection quests, and you can very easily get 5 levels a day in t3 and t4 and maybe t5 by being power leveled. So 60 in 3 weeks very feasible.

[Carna]

I'm thinking I'm going to go with a Brigand after playing about with a Swashbuckler and a Ranger. This choice is based upon two assumptions however...

1) That a Brigands dps is roughly in the same ballpark as a Swashbucklers.

2) A Brigands CAs tend to be a slightly slower timers.

... are these reasonable assumptions; or am I mistaken?

 

[Magus_Bl]

Don't Brigands also get a concentration buff that makes them immune to AE?  Can someone comment on how this works in raid?

[ag]

Remarkably similar to the way it works in group.

[Lyasa]

well it works alot like this:

"what? voice of vox has an AE attack? really?"