On the, ahem, reproduction of fae

Krazedhermit · 11-15-2006, 04:28 PM

*Warning. Do not read anything below this if you can't handle topics of racial reproduction from a theoretical point of view*Now. I've played my little fae guy up to level 11 so far. I'm at Kelethin and I'm starting on the whole Rite of Passage quest. To my suprise, the NPC speaks of how the fae have a sort of reincarnation type of deal going on. I'm not sure if this spirit bud takes a physical form, or if the bud comes to rest in a new body or what exactly. All I know is that newly awakened fae will begin to have vague memories and some deja vu to some degree.Now that brought a couple of questions to mind...I'll start off with various in-game facts I've seen. 1. Females, obviously, have breasts. This indicates mammary glands of some sort for the feeding of young. (Why would a race have breasts just for "show" doesn't make sense. Nature is quite efficent when it comes to what a race needs and doesn't need.) Froglok females for example do not have mammary glands, they do not reproduce in the "normal humanoid" fashion. The iksar mate as humans do, but their young are born with teeth and can eat soft meats, so female iksar do not need mammaries.2. The second NPC you speak to on the Rite of Passage quest, the one that sends you to the history lover.. Well. That NPC says the history lover is her sister. Now, one could shrug this off and say the fae are all brothers and sisters. But that can be said of any race. And the fact is the fae npc never refer to one another as brother and sister as a generic term.3. If all spirit buds are simply reincarnated fae... Well. Then we're dealing with racial stagnation to a certain degree. And to ask a follow-up question on that. Do fae spirits ever learn or "grow" enough to move on to the next level of existance? Or are they constantly recycled? The whole theme of reincarnation is to grow over several life times so that you are worthy to move on to the next plane of existance.4. My friend in-game mentioned this one... Ahem. Male fae have bulges in their pants. That could be a simple artistic shortcut, as the models may simply be a copy of the elf body and made smaller or some such.. Do froglok males have bulges? I've never, uh, noticed. *fidgets*5. There has to be some sort of reproduction system going on, otherwise there wouldn't be two different genders. Again, nature is very streamlined and efficent. If two different genders were not needed, there would only be genderless choice. For example. I believe two races in Final Fantasy Online has only one "gender" persay. They could have easily done this in EQ2 I suspect.So. Alot of evidence points towards the fact that the Fae specifically of the fayefolk reproduce as humans, elves, and so on. Wether a new spirit is created with the insemination, or an old spirit takes residence, is another point of contention as I've no idea how the "older" spirits reform.Anyone want to add to my little theory? Or debunk it?

Message Edited by Krazedhermit on 11-15-2006 05:33 AM

Lorag · 11-15-2006, 05:29 PM

While highly amused by your fascinating theory about the winged fellows now population our world, i feel the need to add my 2 copper.At a first glance, your ideas seem to be very convincing. Since your arguments, technically, are clear and streamlined. But i think exactly this technical view is missing some aspects. I mean, how can anyone take a look into greater faydark and think "Nature is quite efficient and streamlined". Of course animals have to hide and not to show off, that's why they're all grey, but that's not how it works for the rest.The Fae look to me far more magical than a pure design of evolution. And they go a good bit all for the looks! They have wings which no one else has - just for showing off as they flying speed doesn't give them any advantage and they always have to fear a light breeze. Wings just look nice on them, so do breast SMILEY

Lor

steelbadger · 11-15-2006, 05:47 PM

One thing that you must remember is that Evolution is not the same on Norrath as it is on our world.Magic has a great effect on the appearance of races, look at the Erudites.Also, races did not Evolve per say. They where created, fully formed, by their respective gods. The Fae have, supposedly, changed over the time that the gods have been absent, however 500 years is in no way sufficient for Evolution to yield any recognisable results, yet still they changed, and they changed because of the removal of their creator, and the changes in the forest in which they live.Whats more is that the Gods could simply be substituted for Evolution (why would god create a race with mammaries when they are not needed), but the Gods of Norrath ore not perfect nor are they Omnipotent.The reason for fae mammaries could be as simple as Tunare having "a thing" for juggly boobies...

Zagats · 11-15-2006, 07:12 PM

On the movie Dennis the Menace (the one with Christopher Lloyd as the bad guy),

Margret told Dennis that he was stupid because he didnt know where babies come from.

He replied "Yes, I do. The belly button - It opens up".

Margaret - "Then why do boys have belly buttons?"

Dennis - "So we dont look stupid in bathing suits!"

So you could surmise the same is true for the fae women... Fae women have breasts so they dont look silly in bathing suits!

C'mon would you want your fae woman to be called A-cup all the time, like my Iksar female was?

Cusashorn · 11-15-2006, 08:01 PM

steelbadger wrote:
One thing that you must remember is that Evolution is not the same on Norrath as it is on our world.

Magic has a great effect on the appearance of races, look at the Erudites.

Also, races did not Evolve per say. They where created, fully formed, by their respective gods. The Fae have, supposedly, changed over the time that the gods have been absent, however 500 years is in no way sufficient for Evolution to yield any recognisable results, yet still they changed, and they changed because of the removal of their creator, and the changes in the forest in which they live.

Whats more is that the Gods could simply be substituted for Evolution (why would god create a race with mammaries when they are not needed), but the Gods of Norrath ore not perfect nor are they Omnipotent.

The reason for fae mammaries could be as simple as Tunare having "a thing" for juggly boobies...

Actually, the Fae did Evolve.

Vhalen wrote:

The fairies and the fae are similar in many ways. They are both part of a racial class known as fairiefolke. The fairiefolke, sometimes known simply as fay, are comprised of a great many of diverse fay races. Wisps, pixies, brownies, rhym, fae, fairy, etc., these are all types of fairiefolke that exist in Norrath.

All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. Although growth may be the dominant power of most forestlands, it is not the sole influence upon these realms. With a bit of this and a bit of that, fay races can appear far different than their cousins. A pixie may look quite similar to a fairy, but it has a tinge of malice and mirth to create a very troublesome fay that is best avoided.

Fay are not immune to evolution. Their forms are not always constant. They share a close bond to the forest around them. Should the magical properties of that forest change, most likely, the resident fay will also change in some fashion. Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath.

I do hope that helps somewhat.

Krazedhermit · 11-15-2006, 08:14 PM

Okay. Lets look at it from the aspect of Tunare. The goddess of nature and growth.While the gods of Norrath are certainly prone to mistakes. I would guess that the goddess of growth wouldn't make a race that had a set number of spirits being reincairnated over and over again. That isn't growth. That's just simple stagnation. If the spirits do not move on, they can only grow so far.And if the spirits move on, then that means new souls must be born. And if not via reproductive means, and the fae seem to show the signs that they are equipped to physically reproduce, then what? They simply spring outta nothing?

Krazedhermit · 11-15-2006, 09:02 PM

I found the information I needed right here!http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20949

From being in beta and discussing this in a thread with Owlchick, the following was given to us:

Specteral wrote:I have a few questions relating to the lore and history of the fae:First, what kind of lifespan do fae have? Don't need anything exact, just trying to figure out which segment of life my fae will be in.Second, what kind of family structure do Fae have? Are they born or do they appear as a result of magical excess similar to faries?Third, are there any great heros in the Fae culture that would pertain to melee combat? I suspect I can find the answer to this one off old EQ1 lore sites, but decided to ask at the source instead.Fourth, any cultural things that Fae should stay away from? IE Fae normally don't like X.Hope I didn't ask anything too screwy, trying to come up with a decent backstory for my little Fae monk.

MG and I had long, philosophical discussions about these things. I was surprised, actually, at how many folks asked your question two first (albeit phrased in such a way that would make someone as sweet and innocent as a Fae blush).

The general lifespan of a Fae is approximately 70 "human years," although of course disease, war and other unpleasant things can shorten that considerably.

Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs. What changes within a Fae is a period during which their spirit begins to stir, an awakening that marks the end of their childhood and the beginning of the adult phase in their lives. The Fae may not generally remember precise details of their spirits' past, but they may have increased sensitivity to places and things that held significance for that spirit. Some Fae have a much stronger spirit that allows glimpses of its past in addition to the emotional stirrings tied to locations and objects.

Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens. In fact, when a Fae dies, its spirit is often seen as a tiny, flickering light that will remain near the site of that Fae's demise for some time. That light is considered the "spirit bud" and is often brought back to Kelethin by the deceased Fae's kin. Losing a spirit bud is considered a very tragic event, as it means that the memories and experiences of that particular Fae's spirit cannot be recovered. A particular fear is losing a spirit bud far from home, as the Fae worry that their enemies might seek to use that spirit with unnatural and unpleasant consequences.

Combat is not the primary focus of the Fae, so there are no martial heroes in the sense of conquerers. Individuals are less likely to be known than groups of defenders, though even in that regard, the Fae are pretty reticent about their achievements. There are no written records of the Fae being involved in the War of the Fay (which began the Burning Ring), although according to Fae tradition, they had come to the defense of Kelethin and allied with the Feir'Dal. Perhaps, as they were smaller in size then, their contributions were simply overlooked. In this way, any modern Fae can tell the tale of how one of their ancestors did this thing or the other during the War of Fay (or any other Ring in their history) and no one can really dispute it.

Fae, like many magical beings, are superstitious. They would rather cross upstream than downstream (as being downstream has the "ebb" factor, and they consider it bad luck to do something that might cause their magic to ebb). They prefer not to ride horses because the motion is not as smooth and graceful as their glide...but then, some Fae find it great fun because it's so different. They particularly like dark chocolate with...oh...wait. That last one was about me.

The Fae love to play tricks of all kinds on the unwary and they don't mind when the joke is on them so long as it's a good one.

Hope this helps somewhat.

T'chickDesigner

Also, the spirit buds are more like becoming aware of your previous selves.. think of it like a reincarnation awareness.

--------------

This obviously means that the fae have children. But what puzzles me is do they have children and one of the "spirit buds" merge with the new child? Or is the child empty upon birth? Such a strange race.. Yet so interesting!

RaphaNissi · 11-15-2006, 09:15 PM

It seems to me that the spirit buds enter the children sometime after birth. The nursery is described as a place for the spirit buds to rest and rejuvenate until they find a Fae child to enter.

Illmarr · 11-15-2006, 09:40 PM

Owlchick wrote:

Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs. What changes within a Fae is a period during which their spirit begins to stir, an awakening that marks the end of their childhood and the beginning of the adult phase in their lives. The Fae may not generally remember precise details of their spirits' past, but they may have increased sensitivity to places and things that held significance for that spirit. Some Fae have a much stronger spirit that allows glimpses of its past in addition to the emotional stirrings tied to locations and objects.

Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens. In fact, when a Fae dies, its spirit is often seen as a tiny, flickering light that will remain near the site of that Fae's demise for some time. That light is considered the "spirit bud" and is often brought back to Kelethin by the deceased Fae's kin. Losing a spirit bud is considered a very tragic event, as it means that the memories and experiences of that particular Fae's spirit cannot be recovered. A particular fear is losing a spirit bud far from home, as the Fae worry that their enemies might seek to use that spirit with unnatural and unpleasant consequences.

Vhalen wrote:

The fairies and the fae are similar in many ways. They are both part of a racial class known as fairiefolke. The fairiefolke, sometimes known simply as fay, are comprised of a great many of diverse fay races. Wisps, pixies, brownies, rhym, fae, fairy, etc., these are all types of fairiefolke that exist in Norrath.

All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. Although growth may be the dominant power of most forestlands, it is not the sole influence upon these realms. With a bit of this and a bit of that, fay races can appear far different than their cousins. A pixie may look quite similar to a fairy, but it has a tinge of malice and mirth to create a very troublesome fay that is best avoided.

Fay are not immune to evolution. Their forms are not always constant. They share a close bond to the forest around them. Should the magical properties of that forest change, most likely, the resident fay will also change in some fashion. Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath.

Could one Interpret Vhalen's statement as concerning the origin of Spirit Buds and not the flesh and blood Fae child? That would lead to a steady influx of new buds and avoid the stagnation mentioned above. Are Fae flesh and blood? Cut them and do they not bleed? Due to the whole Spirit Bud nature, I'd say that in a sense Fae are all "Brother and Sister", but also like the idea of them having families as Owlchick said, which to me allows for procreation and *gasp* fun for Fae!

Edit: Somewhere I lost a couple of paragraphs. As I recall, the Rite of Passage quest is the journey to discover what your Spirit Bud is attuned to so to speak. Waking in the Nursery is basically the first memory a Fae hase as a being with a Spirit Bud. They remember what happened before, but in the grand scheme of things, aside from relationships built and nurtured, their "adult" lives begin in the Nursery and they can begin to write their destiny. (I'm having a hard time articulating this thought properly, and I'm rushed for a meeting now so it'll have to do )

Message Edited by Illmarr on 11-15-2006 08:49 AM

Giland · 11-15-2006, 11:03 PM

Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this boardhttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807---quote---Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form.---end quote---

The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment.

Nocturnal Aby · 11-16-2006, 02:39 AM

So from reading the various comments by Owlchick and Vhalen below, it would seem the answers are as follows:

Krazedhermit wrote

1. Females, obviously, have breasts. This indicates mammary glands of some sort for the feeding of young. (Why would a race have breasts just for "show" doesn't make sense. Nature is quite efficent when it comes to what a race needs and doesn't need.) Froglok females for example do not have mammary glands, they do not reproduce in the "normal humanoid" fashion. The iksar mate as humans do, but their young are born with teeth and can eat soft meats, so female iksar do not need mammaries.

Fae are birthed in the same way most other humanoid races are! A mommy and daddy who love each other very much get together and...show eachother how much they love eachother. When a spirit bud feels the presence of a fae child they like, they will imbue the child.

And on a side note, iksar lay eggs, much like most other reptiles. In fact, in old days, the Hierophants (iksar shaman) would read the energies of eggs to determine which class (caste) the iksar inside was going to be. In many of the stories, you can read about the iksars being clutchmates, and somewhere, I remember a comment about their being a nursery-type place in Cabilis where all the eggs were cared for. But you're right, they are born fairly developed, again, like most rl reptiles, and are able to eat meat right after being hatched.

2. The second NPC you speak to on the Rite of Passage quest, the one that sends you to the history lover.. Well. That NPC says the history lover is her sister. Now, one could shrug this off and say the fae are all brothers and sisters. But that can be said of any race. And the fact is the fae npc never refer to one another as brother and sister as a generic term.

Quotes from Owlchick:

Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs....

Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens.

3. If all spirit buds are simply reincarnated fae... Well. Then we're dealing with racial stagnation to a certain degree. And to ask a follow-up question on that. Do fae spirits ever learn or "grow" enough to move on to the next level of existance? Or are they constantly recycled? The whole theme of reincarnation is to grow over several life times so that you are worthy to move on to the next plane of existance.

Now see, this is somewhat fascinating to me!! Given the previous statements made by owlchick, when a Fae dies, it does not necessarily mean that their spirit is reincarnated! The life force must join another Fae in order for that to happen! What this means, is that SOME Fae our what could be called "old souls," while others are brand, spanking new! It could be just as likely to talk to a Fae who has had the spirit of a fae who was alive in the Age of Turmoil, and has lived several generations, as one who is experiencing the world for the first time!

4. My friend in-game mentioned this one... Ahem. Male fae have bulges in their pants. That could be a simple artistic shortcut, as the models may simply be a copy of the elf body and made smaller or some such.. Do froglok males have bulges? I've never, uh, noticed. *fidgets*

Again, they reproduce like we do, only they have opportunity for their souls to be merged with older ones.

5. There has to be some sort of reproduction system going on, otherwise there wouldn't be two different genders. Again, nature is very streamlined and efficent. If two different genders were not needed, there would only be genderless choice. For example. I believe two races in Final Fantasy Online has only one "gender" persay. They could have easily done this in EQ2 I suspect.

This is, perhaps, one of the few parts of your theory I'm skeptical about...evolution in Norrath is not exactly like the theory of evolution in real life. Most of the evolution we've seen in Norrath has been sparked by outside influence, whether it is the step from barbarian to human, initiated by their divine creators, the near forced evolution that occurred to the Erudites after the Age of Turmoil that seems to have been brought about by arcane means, or, as we see with the Fae, the evolution brought about by proximity to the direct power of a Plane of Nature. It has been said over and over again how linked the Fae are with nature. The Bloom of Growth has influenced the rate and strength of much of the natural growth in Faydwer, is it any small wonder that a race so linked to nature has also been affected by this power?

Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on 11-15-2006 02:45 PM

Illmarr · 11-16-2006, 03:27 AM

So you have baby cherubs over here, and Spirit buds over there waiting to join. That suggests that the cherubs are the product of biological reproduction to me. They exist without being merged with a Spirit Bud. My question off this working premise becomes: Are the Fae drawn by some mystical force when the time is right to the Nursery to join with their Spirit Bud? Is there a sort of racial Ritual/Celebration that takes young Fae into the Nursery and then whatever joining occurs? Am I over-thinking and is this just too esoteric or irrelevant a question/topic for a game? The Fae are interesting to me just because they are a bit of a blank slate really as far as lore is concerned compared to the already established races.

KerowynnKaotic · 11-16-2006, 05:03 AM

They mate like regular "humans". They have 2 arms, 2 legs and the appropriate genitalia.

The wings are merely an accident of evolution. (from when the very 1st Fairy was created).

Though, like many other races, the wings are a focal point for "beauty".

They may judge each other (subconciously) as potential mates solely on the basis of Wing Color / Length / Display & etc.

When a female Fae is heavy with child and ready to give birth she goes to the Nursery. Where it is conspicuously absent of any true "baby" fae but on the other hand do we really need annoying Fae Children asking if we "have ever seen an werewolf??" or "when I grow up I'm going to visit the Queen!" *shivers with dread* but, I digress ...

There in the safe and tranquil Nursery she goes into labor, this attracts the attention of any local "spirit buds" in the vicinity. They help the mother fae through the labor by emitting a soothing humming sound. The humming sound is actually them bickering amongst themselves as to "who" will be joining with the "cherub"; they can sense whether the "cherub" will be male or female. Upon the actual birth to her little "cherub" and the baby's very first breath the "spirit bud" merges with the "cherub" and goes into a hiberated state until the child is old enough to learn about their "selves".

.... yep yep .. true story ....

Owlchick · 11-16-2006, 07:21 AM

Illmarr wrote:

So you have baby cherubs over here, and Spirit buds over there waiting to join. That suggests that the cherubs are the product of biological reproduction to me. They exist without being merged with a Spirit Bud. My question off this working premise becomes: Are the Fae drawn by some mystical force when the time is right to the Nursery to join with their Spirit Bud? Yes, that's a great way of looking at it. It's sort of like listening to a song , or reading a poem, and feeling something stir inside you. You want to find out more about whatever it is that brought on those feelings, so you read more poems or listen to more of the same music. The Fae are naturally curious creatures, so this is a time when they will explore their environment, seeking out places where these feelings are strongest.

Is there a sort of racial Ritual/Celebration that takes young Fae into the Nursery and then whatever joining occurs? As the Fae youth feel these stirrings, they naturally gravitate toward those areas in which the Fae spirit buds are more concentrated. And of course, a high concentration of Fae spirit buds would be most likely to occur in areas where there are magical influences that allow them freedom to grow.

Am I over-thinking and is this just too esoteric or irrelevant a question/topic for a game? Well, as someone quoted me earlier, I was surprised by how many people are thinking this through to it's natural, er, beginning.

The Fae are interesting to me just because they are a bit of a blank slate really as far as lore is concerned compared to the already established races.

Winter · 11-16-2006, 10:24 AM

As long as I'm not laying eggs on a leaf somewhere. *cringes at the thought*

Pass me the pepto bismol, these eggs are putting a hurtin' on meh!

Cusashorn · 11-16-2006, 10:25 AM

Be glad you're not a froglok or Iksar then.

lucid_dream · 11-16-2006, 06:27 PM

Interesting to read how sacred the spirit buds are considered by the fae. As part of the Innoruuk deity quest, the Prophet of Hate has us steal a spirit bud and give to her. No doubt to be corrupted by hate and used for evil purposes. Great stuff! SMILEY

EvilIguana9 · 11-16-2006, 09:17 PM

Cusashorn wrote:
Be glad you're not a froglok or Iksar then.

Interesting you should mention that. Had I been in charge of lore, Iksar would have given birth to live young. Just seems to make more sense to me, and it is certainly not unprecedented in the natutral world. Lots of reptiles bear live young, it's really not all that functionally different from laying eggs. Just that rather than laying them and waiting for them to hatch, the mother keeps them in her body all the way to that point. Frogloks I'd leave as egg layers, since I can't think of any live bearing amphibians offhand to base such a thing on. But frog eggs are very different from reptile eggs. While reptiles lay eggs typically with leathery, semi-hard shells, frogs, and amphibians in general, lay eggs that lack such a shell. In fact, they somewhat resemble what you see when you crack open a hen egg in the process of preparing breakfast, a gelatinous sphere with a darker sphere (the embryo) in the center. I'm not sure I've ever seen a froglok egg in EQ or EQ2 though. Plenty of tadloks though.

therodge · 11-17-2006, 01:36 AM

name 2 reptiles that bear live young(lol)

KerowynnKaotic · 11-17-2006, 01:47 AM

therodge wrote:
name 2 reptiles that bear live young(lol)

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/reptile/rerepro.html

CycoDelic · 11-17-2006, 02:56 AM

uNF?

Josgar · 11-19-2006, 09:21 AM

Giland wrote:
Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this board
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807

---quote---
Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form.

---end quote---

The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment.

The Fae evloved from Fairies in eq1 becuase of the magic in the environment, and those fairies were created by Tunare.

Cusashorn · 11-19-2006, 11:05 AM

Josgar wrote:

Giland wrote:
Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this board
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807

---quote---
Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form.

---end quote---

The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment.

The Fae evloved from Fairies in eq1 becuase of the magic in the environment, and those fairies were created by Tunare.

Yes, but the FAE themselves were the products of evolution, not created by Tunare.

Josgar · 11-19-2006, 11:28 AM

They would not exist if Tunare did not create the Fairies. I rest my case.

KerowynnKaotic · 11-19-2006, 12:13 PM

Josgar wrote:
They would not exist if Tunare did not create the Fairies. I rest my case.

not 100% true since Vhalan said .. " All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. " That means any magic that was "pooled" around had/has the chance of creating a "fay-type creature". That it was Tunare's magic that created the Fairies in EQ1's Greater & Lesser Faydark can still be debated, since there were other Gods playing around Faydwer as well ....

Cusashorn · 11-19-2006, 09:26 PM

Josgar, you're trying to prove VHALEN wrong on what he said... He said that the Fae were NOT created by Tunare, and he's the one who writes the lore.

RaphaNissi · 11-19-2006, 11:59 PM

Cusashorn wrote:
Josgar, you're trying to prove VHALEN wrong on what he said... He said that the Fae were NOT created by Tunare, and he's the one who writes the lore.

That's not technically true. You can't take part of the picture (them being created by the arcane environment) and leave out the rest. Here is the key part of the rest of the picture....Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath.Who do we say is the creator of the Tier'Dal? Tunare..oh wait, it was Innoruuk. He took something created by another force and influenced it into a race and is credited for the creation of the Dark Elves. Same concept can be applied here. Tunare influenced the environment that the Fae live in thus molding and evolving them into the race we call the Fae. Their history book gives credit to Tunare for their race, and Vhalen's post (taken in it's entirety) also gives credit to the Tunare for the creation of the Fae race.

DarrkElf · 11-20-2006, 08:02 AM

Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer.

Owlchick · 11-20-2006, 10:05 AM

DarrkElf wrote:
Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer.

Me, too SMILEY

To be honest, there's nothing in what Vhalen said that contraindicates speculation about whether Fae are Tunare's creations or not. In writing the lore for them, I always appeal to his sense of history, because he has much more of a handle on the then of things, but the Fae have become a now.

Or something. I'm going to go praise the creator of Guiness for now. Cheers!

Ama · 11-20-2006, 08:06 PM

Owlchick wrote:

DarrkElf wrote:
Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer.

Me, too

To be honest, there's nothing in what Vhalen said that contraindicates speculation about whether Fae are Tunare's creations or not. In writing the lore for them, I always appeal to his sense of history, because he has much more of a handle on the then of things, but the Fae have become a now.

Or something. I'm going to go praise the creator of Guiness for now. Cheers!

:smileyindifferent:

But, but, but according to the Fairy book in everling's lab Fairy are the creation of pure magic and Fae are hybrids arn't they like Half-Elfs? :smileyindifferent:

11-15-2006, 04:28 PM	#1
Krazedhermit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Warning. Do not read anything below this if you can't handle topics of racial reproduction from a theoretical point of viewNow. I've played my little fae guy up to level 11 so far. I'm at Kelethin and I'm starting on the whole Rite of Passage quest. To my suprise, the NPC speaks of how the fae have a sort of reincarnation type of deal going on. I'm not sure if this spirit bud takes a physical form, or if the bud comes to rest in a new body or what exactly. All I know is that newly awakened fae will begin to have vague memories and some deja vu to some degree.Now that brought a couple of questions to mind...I'll start off with various in-game facts I've seen. 1. Females, obviously, have breasts. This indicates mammary glands of some sort for the feeding of young. (Why would a race have breasts just for "show" doesn't make sense. Nature is quite efficent when it comes to what a race needs and doesn't need.) Froglok females for example do not have mammary glands, they do not reproduce in the "normal humanoid" fashion. The iksar mate as humans do, but their young are born with teeth and can eat soft meats, so female iksar do not need mammaries.2. The second NPC you speak to on the Rite of Passage quest, the one that sends you to the history lover.. Well. That NPC says the history lover is her sister. Now, one could shrug this off and say the fae are all brothers and sisters. But that can be said of any race. And the fact is the fae npc never refer to one another as brother and sister as a generic term.3. If all spirit buds are simply reincarnated fae... Well. Then we're dealing with racial stagnation to a certain degree. And to ask a follow-up question on that. Do fae spirits ever learn or "grow" enough to move on to the next level of existance? Or are they constantly recycled? The whole theme of reincarnation is to grow over several life times so that you are worthy to move on to the next plane of existance.4. My friend in-game mentioned this one... Ahem. Male fae have bulges in their pants. That could be a simple artistic shortcut, as the models may simply be a copy of the elf body and made smaller or some such.. Do froglok males have bulges? I've never, uh, noticed. fidgets5. There has to be some sort of reproduction system going on, otherwise there wouldn't be two different genders. Again, nature is very streamlined and efficent. If two different genders were not needed, there would only be genderless choice. For example. I believe two races in Final Fantasy Online has only one "gender" persay. They could have easily done this in EQ2 I suspect.So. Alot of evidence points towards the fact that the Fae specifically of the fayefolk reproduce as humans, elves, and so on. Wether a new spirit is created with the insemination, or an old spirit takes residence, is another point of contention as I've no idea how the "older" spirits reform.Anyone want to add to my little theory? Or debunk it? Message Edited by Krazedhermit on 11-15-2006 05:33 AM __________________ ---------------- Travic - Antonia Bayle

11-15-2006, 05:29 PM	#2
Lorag Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1	While highly amused by your fascinating theory about the winged fellows now population our world, i feel the need to add my 2 copper.At a first glance, your ideas seem to be very convincing. Since your arguments, technically, are clear and streamlined. But i think exactly this technical view is missing some aspects. I mean, how can anyone take a look into greater faydark and think "Nature is quite efficient and streamlined". Of course animals have to hide and not to show off, that's why they're all grey, but that's not how it works for the rest.The Fae look to me far more magical than a pure design of evolution. And they go a good bit all for the looks! They have wings which no one else has - just for showing off as they flying speed doesn't give them any advantage and they always have to fear a light breeze. Wings just look nice on them, so do breast Lor

11-15-2006, 07:12 PM	#4
Zagats Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 419	On the movie Dennis the Menace (the one with Christopher Lloyd as the bad guy), Margret told Dennis that he was stupid because he didnt know where babies come from. He replied "Yes, I do. The belly button - It opens up". Margaret - "Then why do boys have belly buttons?" Dennis - "So we dont look stupid in bathing suits!" So you could surmise the same is true for the fae women... Fae women have breasts so they dont look silly in bathing suits! C'mon would you want your fae woman to be called A-cup all the time, like my Iksar female was? __________________ 80 Defiler - Lawlz/ 80 Alchy/ Master Tink/ 189AA aka 80 Brig - Brekon/ 80 Jeweler/ Master Tink/ 198 AA Retired!!! 80 Coercer - Freeqq/ Master Tink/ 168 AA 80 Guard - Zomg/ Master Muter/ 192 AA 80 Zerk - Zomg (R.I.P) 80 Zerk - Barn/ 80 Provi/ 162 AA 80 Dirge - Micetro/ 165AA 80 Swash - Erno/ 141 AA 80 Templar - Shortey/ 75 Alchy/ 151 AA 80 Inquis - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Templar - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Wiz - Brnd/ 145AA 72Conjy - Zzzz 71 Assasin - Scoole 70 Swash - Bladeflash ... I play too much.

11-15-2006, 08:01 PM	#5
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	steelbadger wrote: One thing that you must remember is that Evolution is not the same on Norrath as it is on our world. Magic has a great effect on the appearance of races, look at the Erudites. Also, races did not Evolve per say. They where created, fully formed, by their respective gods. The Fae have, supposedly, changed over the time that the gods have been absent, however 500 years is in no way sufficient for Evolution to yield any recognisable results, yet still they changed, and they changed because of the removal of their creator, and the changes in the forest in which they live. Whats more is that the Gods could simply be substituted for Evolution (why would god create a race with mammaries when they are not needed), but the Gods of Norrath ore not perfect nor are they Omnipotent. The reason for fae mammaries could be as simple as Tunare having "a thing" for juggly boobies... Actually, the Fae did Evolve. Vhalen wrote: The fairies and the fae are similar in many ways. They are both part of a racial class known as fairiefolke. The fairiefolke, sometimes known simply as fay, are comprised of a great many of diverse fay races. Wisps, pixies, brownies, rhym, fae, fairy, etc., these are all types of fairiefolke that exist in Norrath. All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. Although growth may be the dominant power of most forestlands, it is not the sole influence upon these realms. With a bit of this and a bit of that, fay races can appear far different than their cousins. A pixie may look quite similar to a fairy, but it has a tinge of malice and mirth to create a very troublesome fay that is best avoided. Fay are not immune to evolution. Their forms are not always constant. They share a close bond to the forest around them. Should the magical properties of that forest change, most likely, the resident fay will also change in some fashion. Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath. I do hope that helps somewhat.

11-15-2006, 08:14 PM	#6
Krazedhermit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	Okay. Lets look at it from the aspect of Tunare. The goddess of nature and growth.While the gods of Norrath are certainly prone to mistakes. I would guess that the goddess of growth wouldn't make a race that had a set number of spirits being reincairnated over and over again. That isn't growth. That's just simple stagnation. If the spirits do not move on, they can only grow so far.And if the spirits move on, then that means new souls must be born. And if not via reproductive means, and the fae seem to show the signs that they are equipped to physically reproduce, then what? They simply spring outta nothing? __________________ ---------------- Travic - Antonia Bayle

11-15-2006, 05:47 PM	#3
steelbadger Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 816	One thing that you must remember is that Evolution is not the same on Norrath as it is on our world.Magic has a great effect on the appearance of races, look at the Erudites.Also, races did not Evolve per say. They where created, fully formed, by their respective gods. The Fae have, supposedly, changed over the time that the gods have been absent, however 500 years is in no way sufficient for Evolution to yield any recognisable results, yet still they changed, and they changed because of the removal of their creator, and the changes in the forest in which they live.Whats more is that the Gods could simply be substituted for Evolution (why would god create a race with mammaries when they are not needed), but the Gods of Norrath ore not perfect nor are they Omnipotent.The reason for fae mammaries could be as simple as Tunare having "a thing" for juggly boobies...

11-15-2006, 09:02 PM	#7
Krazedhermit Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	I found the information I needed right here!http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20949 From being in beta and discussing this in a thread with Owlchick, the following was given to us: Specteral wrote:I have a few questions relating to the lore and history of the fae:First, what kind of lifespan do fae have? Don't need anything exact, just trying to figure out which segment of life my fae will be in.Second, what kind of family structure do Fae have? Are they born or do they appear as a result of magical excess similar to faries?Third, are there any great heros in the Fae culture that would pertain to melee combat? I suspect I can find the answer to this one off old EQ1 lore sites, but decided to ask at the source instead.Fourth, any cultural things that Fae should stay away from? IE Fae normally don't like X.Hope I didn't ask anything too screwy, trying to come up with a decent backstory for my little Fae monk. MG and I had long, philosophical discussions about these things. I was surprised, actually, at how many folks asked your question two first (albeit phrased in such a way that would make someone as sweet and innocent as a Fae blush). The general lifespan of a Fae is approximately 70 "human years," although of course disease, war and other unpleasant things can shorten that considerably. Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs. What changes within a Fae is a period during which their spirit begins to stir, an awakening that marks the end of their childhood and the beginning of the adult phase in their lives. The Fae may not generally remember precise details of their spirits' past, but they may have increased sensitivity to places and things that held significance for that spirit. Some Fae have a much stronger spirit that allows glimpses of its past in addition to the emotional stirrings tied to locations and objects. Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens. In fact, when a Fae dies, its spirit is often seen as a tiny, flickering light that will remain near the site of that Fae's demise for some time. That light is considered the "spirit bud" and is often brought back to Kelethin by the deceased Fae's kin. Losing a spirit bud is considered a very tragic event, as it means that the memories and experiences of that particular Fae's spirit cannot be recovered. A particular fear is losing a spirit bud far from home, as the Fae worry that their enemies might seek to use that spirit with unnatural and unpleasant consequences. Combat is not the primary focus of the Fae, so there are no martial heroes in the sense of conquerers. Individuals are less likely to be known than groups of defenders, though even in that regard, the Fae are pretty reticent about their achievements. There are no written records of the Fae being involved in the War of the Fay (which began the Burning Ring), although according to Fae tradition, they had come to the defense of Kelethin and allied with the Feir'Dal. Perhaps, as they were smaller in size then, their contributions were simply overlooked. In this way, any modern Fae can tell the tale of how one of their ancestors did this thing or the other during the War of Fay (or any other Ring in their history) and no one can really dispute it. Fae, like many magical beings, are superstitious. They would rather cross upstream than downstream (as being downstream has the "ebb" factor, and they consider it bad luck to do something that might cause their magic to ebb). They prefer not to ride horses because the motion is not as smooth and graceful as their glide...but then, some Fae find it great fun because it's so different. They particularly like dark chocolate with...oh...wait. That last one was about me. The Fae love to play tricks of all kinds on the unwary and they don't mind when the joke is on them so long as it's a good one. Hope this helps somewhat. T'chickDesigner Also, the spirit buds are more like becoming aware of your previous selves.. think of it like a reincarnation awareness. -------------- This obviously means that the fae have children. But what puzzles me is do they have children and one of the "spirit buds" merge with the new child? Or is the child empty upon birth? Such a strange race.. Yet so interesting! __________________ ---------------- Travic - Antonia Bayle

11-15-2006, 09:15 PM	#8
RaphaNissi The Athenaeum Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 721	It seems to me that the spirit buds enter the children sometime after birth. The nursery is described as a place for the spirit buds to rest and rejuvenate until they find a Fae child to enter. __________________

11-15-2006, 09:40 PM	#9
Illmarr Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,448	Owlchick wrote: Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs. What changes within a Fae is a period during which their spirit begins to stir, an awakening that marks the end of their childhood and the beginning of the adult phase in their lives. The Fae may not generally remember precise details of their spirits' past, but they may have increased sensitivity to places and things that held significance for that spirit. Some Fae have a much stronger spirit that allows glimpses of its past in addition to the emotional stirrings tied to locations and objects. Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens. In fact, when a Fae dies, its spirit is often seen as a tiny, flickering light that will remain near the site of that Fae's demise for some time. That light is considered the "spirit bud" and is often brought back to Kelethin by the deceased Fae's kin. Losing a spirit bud is considered a very tragic event, as it means that the memories and experiences of that particular Fae's spirit cannot be recovered. A particular fear is losing a spirit bud far from home, as the Fae worry that their enemies might seek to use that spirit with unnatural and unpleasant consequences. Vhalen wrote: The fairies and the fae are similar in many ways. They are both part of a racial class known as fairiefolke. The fairiefolke, sometimes known simply as fay, are comprised of a great many of diverse fay races. Wisps, pixies, brownies, rhym, fae, fairy, etc., these are all types of fairiefolke that exist in Norrath. All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. Although growth may be the dominant power of most forestlands, it is not the sole influence upon these realms. With a bit of this and a bit of that, fay races can appear far different than their cousins. A pixie may look quite similar to a fairy, but it has a tinge of malice and mirth to create a very troublesome fay that is best avoided. Fay are not immune to evolution. Their forms are not always constant. They share a close bond to the forest around them. Should the magical properties of that forest change, most likely, the resident fay will also change in some fashion. Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath. Could one Interpret Vhalen's statement as concerning the origin of Spirit Buds and not the flesh and blood Fae child? That would lead to a steady influx of new buds and avoid the stagnation mentioned above. Are Fae flesh and blood? Cut them and do they not bleed? Due to the whole Spirit Bud nature, I'd say that in a sense Fae are all "Brother and Sister", but also like the idea of them having families as Owlchick said, which to me allows for procreation and gasp fun for Fae! Edit: Somewhere I lost a couple of paragraphs. As I recall, the Rite of Passage quest is the journey to discover what your Spirit Bud is attuned to so to speak. Waking in the Nursery is basically the first memory a Fae hase as a being with a Spirit Bud. They remember what happened before, but in the grand scheme of things, aside from relationships built and nurtured, their "adult" lives begin in the Nursery and they can begin to write their destiny. (I'm having a hard time articulating this thought properly, and I'm rushed for a meeting now so it'll have to do ) Message Edited by Illmarr on 11-15-2006 08:49 AM

11-15-2006, 11:03 PM	#10
Giland Tester Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 323	Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this boardhttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807---quote---Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form.---end quote--- The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment.

11-16-2006, 02:39 AM	#11
Nocturnal Aby General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 581	So from reading the various comments by Owlchick and Vhalen below, it would seem the answers are as follows: Krazedhermit wrote 1. Females, obviously, have breasts. This indicates mammary glands of some sort for the feeding of young. (Why would a race have breasts just for "show" doesn't make sense. Nature is quite efficent when it comes to what a race needs and doesn't need.) Froglok females for example do not have mammary glands, they do not reproduce in the "normal humanoid" fashion. The iksar mate as humans do, but their young are born with teeth and can eat soft meats, so female iksar do not need mammaries. Fae are birthed in the same way most other humanoid races are! A mommy and daddy who love each other very much get together and...show eachother how much they love eachother. When a spirit bud feels the presence of a fae child they like, they will imbue the child. And on a side note, iksar lay eggs, much like most other reptiles. In fact, in old days, the Hierophants (iksar shaman) would read the energies of eggs to determine which class (caste) the iksar inside was going to be. In many of the stories, you can read about the iksars being clutchmates, and somewhere, I remember a comment about their being a nursery-type place in Cabilis where all the eggs were cared for. But you're right, they are born fairly developed, again, like most rl reptiles, and are able to eat meat right after being hatched. 2. The second NPC you speak to on the Rite of Passage quest, the one that sends you to the history lover.. Well. That NPC says the history lover is her sister. Now, one could shrug this off and say the fae are all brothers and sisters. But that can be said of any race. And the fact is the fae npc never refer to one another as brother and sister as a generic term. Quotes from Owlchick: Fae families are essentially the same as Feir'Dal: there is a father and a mother and then there are little cherubs.... Before joining with a new Fae, the spirit buds tend to cluster in areas near Kelethin, sometimes called "nurseries," although the spirits are not actual flowers. Fae are obviously very close to nature and some of their spirits would probably enjoy sleeping on a petal, so there are often spirits floating amongst gardens. 3. If all spirit buds are simply reincarnated fae... Well. Then we're dealing with racial stagnation to a certain degree. And to ask a follow-up question on that. Do fae spirits ever learn or "grow" enough to move on to the next level of existance? Or are they constantly recycled? The whole theme of reincarnation is to grow over several life times so that you are worthy to move on to the next plane of existance. Now see, this is somewhat fascinating to me!! Given the previous statements made by owlchick, when a Fae dies, it does not necessarily mean that their spirit is reincarnated! The life force must join another Fae in order for that to happen! What this means, is that SOME Fae our what could be called "old souls," while others are brand, spanking new! It could be just as likely to talk to a Fae who has had the spirit of a fae who was alive in the Age of Turmoil, and has lived several generations, as one who is experiencing the world for the first time! 4. My friend in-game mentioned this one... Ahem. Male fae have bulges in their pants. That could be a simple artistic shortcut, as the models may simply be a copy of the elf body and made smaller or some such.. Do froglok males have bulges? I've never, uh, noticed. fidgets Again, they reproduce like we do, only they have opportunity for their souls to be merged with older ones. 5. There has to be some sort of reproduction system going on, otherwise there wouldn't be two different genders. Again, nature is very streamlined and efficent. If two different genders were not needed, there would only be genderless choice. For example. I believe two races in Final Fantasy Online has only one "gender" persay. They could have easily done this in EQ2 I suspect. This is, perhaps, one of the few parts of your theory I'm skeptical about...evolution in Norrath is not exactly like the theory of evolution in real life. Most of the evolution we've seen in Norrath has been sparked by outside influence, whether it is the step from barbarian to human, initiated by their divine creators, the near forced evolution that occurred to the Erudites after the Age of Turmoil that seems to have been brought about by arcane means, or, as we see with the Fae, the evolution brought about by proximity to the direct power of a Plane of Nature. It has been said over and over again how linked the Fae are with nature. The Bloom of Growth has influenced the rate and strength of much of the natural growth in Faydwer, is it any small wonder that a race so linked to nature has also been affected by this power? Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on 11-15-2006 02:45 PM __________________ Keeper of Lore Endless Source of Useless Information

11-16-2006, 03:27 AM	#12
Illmarr Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,448	So you have baby cherubs over here, and Spirit buds over there waiting to join. That suggests that the cherubs are the product of biological reproduction to me. They exist without being merged with a Spirit Bud. My question off this working premise becomes: Are the Fae drawn by some mystical force when the time is right to the Nursery to join with their Spirit Bud? Is there a sort of racial Ritual/Celebration that takes young Fae into the Nursery and then whatever joining occurs? Am I over-thinking and is this just too esoteric or irrelevant a question/topic for a game? The Fae are interesting to me just because they are a bit of a blank slate really as far as lore is concerned compared to the already established races.

11-16-2006, 05:03 AM	#13
KerowynnKaotic Tormentor of Fae Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Arizona Posts: 1,862	They mate like regular "humans". They have 2 arms, 2 legs and the appropriate genitalia. The wings are merely an accident of evolution. (from when the very 1st Fairy was created). Though, like many other races, the wings are a focal point for "beauty". They may judge each other (subconciously) as potential mates solely on the basis of Wing Color / Length / Display & etc. When a female Fae is heavy with child and ready to give birth she goes to the Nursery. Where it is conspicuously absent of any true "baby" fae but on the other hand do we really need annoying Fae Children asking if we "have ever seen an werewolf??" or "when I grow up I'm going to visit the Queen!" shivers with dread but, I digress ... There in the safe and tranquil Nursery she goes into labor, this attracts the attention of any local "spirit buds" in the vicinity. They help the mother fae through the labor by emitting a soothing humming sound. The humming sound is actually them bickering amongst themselves as to "who" will be joining with the "cherub"; they can sense whether the "cherub" will be male or female. Upon the actual birth to her little "cherub" and the baby's very first breath the "spirit bud" merges with the "cherub" and goes into a hiberated state until the child is old enough to learn about their "selves". .... yep yep .. true story .... __________________

11-16-2006, 07:21 AM	#14
Owlchick Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	Illmarr wrote: So you have baby cherubs over here, and Spirit buds over there waiting to join. That suggests that the cherubs are the product of biological reproduction to me. They exist without being merged with a Spirit Bud. My question off this working premise becomes: Are the Fae drawn by some mystical force when the time is right to the Nursery to join with their Spirit Bud? Yes, that's a great way of looking at it. It's sort of like listening to a song , or reading a poem, and feeling something stir inside you. You want to find out more about whatever it is that brought on those feelings, so you read more poems or listen to more of the same music. The Fae are naturally curious creatures, so this is a time when they will explore their environment, seeking out places where these feelings are strongest. Is there a sort of racial Ritual/Celebration that takes young Fae into the Nursery and then whatever joining occurs? As the Fae youth feel these stirrings, they naturally gravitate toward those areas in which the Fae spirit buds are more concentrated. And of course, a high concentration of Fae spirit buds would be most likely to occur in areas where there are magical influences that allow them freedom to grow. Am I over-thinking and is this just too esoteric or irrelevant a question/topic for a game? Well, as someone quoted me earlier, I was surprised by how many people are thinking this through to it's natural, er, beginning. The Fae are interesting to me just because they are a bit of a blank slate really as far as lore is concerned compared to the already established races. __________________ Tracy Seamster Designer, The Agency Gamers in Real Life

11-16-2006, 10:24 AM	#15
Winter Crazy for Fae! Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 655	As long as I'm not laying eggs on a leaf somewhere. cringes at the thought Pass me the pepto bismol, these eggs are putting a hurtin' on meh! __________________

11-16-2006, 10:25 AM	#16
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Be glad you're not a froglok or Iksar then.

11-16-2006, 06:27 PM	#17
lucid_dream Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 64	Interesting to read how sacred the spirit buds are considered by the fae. As part of the Innoruuk deity quest, the Prophet of Hate has us steal a spirit bud and give to her. No doubt to be corrupted by hate and used for evil purposes. Great stuff!

11-16-2006, 09:17 PM	#18
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	Cusashorn wrote: Be glad you're not a froglok or Iksar then. Interesting you should mention that. Had I been in charge of lore, Iksar would have given birth to live young. Just seems to make more sense to me, and it is certainly not unprecedented in the natutral world. Lots of reptiles bear live young, it's really not all that functionally different from laying eggs. Just that rather than laying them and waiting for them to hatch, the mother keeps them in her body all the way to that point. Frogloks I'd leave as egg layers, since I can't think of any live bearing amphibians offhand to base such a thing on. But frog eggs are very different from reptile eggs. While reptiles lay eggs typically with leathery, semi-hard shells, frogs, and amphibians in general, lay eggs that lack such a shell. In fact, they somewhat resemble what you see when you crack open a hen egg in the process of preparing breakfast, a gelatinous sphere with a darker sphere (the embryo) in the center. I'm not sure I've ever seen a froglok egg in EQ or EQ2 though. Plenty of tadloks though.

11-17-2006, 01:36 AM	#19
therodge Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 824	name 2 reptiles that bear live young(lol)

11-17-2006, 01:47 AM	#20
KerowynnKaotic Tormentor of Fae Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Arizona Posts: 1,862	therodge wrote: name 2 reptiles that bear live young(lol) http://www.exoticpetvet.net/reptile/rerepro.html __________________

11-17-2006, 02:56 AM	#21
CycoDelic Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 113	uNF? __________________ Sumgee 90 Paladin

11-19-2006, 09:21 AM	#22
Josgar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,606	Giland wrote: Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this board http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807 ---quote--- Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form. ---end quote--- The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment. The Fae evloved from Fairies in eq1 becuase of the magic in the environment, and those fairies were created by Tunare.

11-19-2006, 11:05 AM	#23
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Josgar wrote: Giland wrote: Quoted from the Lore Interview with Vhalen post on this board http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=20807 ---quote--- Vhalen: As I had stated at one time or another, fairies are creatures that are brought to life by the condensed magic of a given location. The symbiotic relationship between the fairies and their environment helps create the fairy form and can even evolve that original form. The dragonfly fairy, the wisps, sun fairies, etc. These are all fairyfolke given life, not by the hand of the gods, but by the arcane environment around them. The fae are an evolved form. ---end quote--- The fae where not created by a god, but sprang to life from free magic in the environment. The Fae evloved from Fairies in eq1 becuase of the magic in the environment, and those fairies were created by Tunare. Yes, but the FAE themselves were the products of evolution, not created by Tunare.

11-19-2006, 11:28 AM	#24
Josgar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,606	They would not exist if Tunare did not create the Fairies. I rest my case.

11-19-2006, 12:13 PM	#25
KerowynnKaotic Tormentor of Fae Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Arizona Posts: 1,862	Josgar wrote: They would not exist if Tunare did not create the Fairies. I rest my case. not 100% true since Vhalan said .. " All fairiefolke are entities that spring to life from the condensed arcane forces of growth of their native environment. " That means any magic that was "pooled" around had/has the chance of creating a "fay-type creature". That it was Tunare's magic that created the Fairies in EQ1's Greater & Lesser Faydark can still be debated, since there were other Gods playing around Faydwer as well .... __________________

11-19-2006, 09:26 PM	#26
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Josgar, you're trying to prove VHALEN wrong on what he said... He said that the Fae were NOT created by Tunare, and he's the one who writes the lore.

11-19-2006, 11:59 PM	#27
RaphaNissi The Athenaeum Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 721	Cusashorn wrote: Josgar, you're trying to prove VHALEN wrong on what he said... He said that the Fae were NOT created by Tunare, and he's the one who writes the lore. That's not technically true. You can't take part of the picture (them being created by the arcane environment) and leave out the rest. Here is the key part of the rest of the picture....Tunare had a large influence over the Faydark forests of Faydwer. Simply visiting the woodlands had a great effect to the arcane composition of the realm. It is rumored that the planar presence of the Goddess of Growth eventually evolved the fae to the race they are today, one of the dominant fairiefolke races of Norrath.Who do we say is the creator of the Tier'Dal? Tunare..oh wait, it was Innoruuk. He took something created by another force and influenced it into a race and is credited for the creation of the Dark Elves. Same concept can be applied here. Tunare influenced the environment that the Fae live in thus molding and evolving them into the race we call the Fae. Their history book gives credit to Tunare for their race, and Vhalen's post (taken in it's entirety) also gives credit to the Tunare for the creation of the Fae race. __________________

11-20-2006, 08:02 AM	#28
DarrkElf Lord Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 196	Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer.

11-20-2006, 10:05 AM	#29
Owlchick Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	DarrkElf wrote: Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer. Me, too To be honest, there's nothing in what Vhalen said that contraindicates speculation about whether Fae are Tunare's creations or not. In writing the lore for them, I always appeal to his sense of history, because he has much more of a handle on the then of things, but the Fae have become a now. Or something. I'm going to go praise the creator of Guiness for now. Cheers! __________________ Tracy Seamster Designer, The Agency Gamers in Real Life

11-20-2006, 08:06 PM	#30
Ama General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2,833	Owlchick wrote: DarrkElf wrote: Having read through all the posts in this thread I have come to the definite conclusion that...... I need a beer. Me, too To be honest, there's nothing in what Vhalen said that contraindicates speculation about whether Fae are Tunare's creations or not. In writing the lore for them, I always appeal to his sense of history, because he has much more of a handle on the then of things, but the Fae have become a now. Or something. I'm going to go praise the creator of Guiness for now. Cheers! :smileyindifferent: But, but, but according to the Fairy book in everling's lab Fairy are the creation of pure magic and Fae are hybrids arn't they like Half-Elfs? :smileyindifferent: __________________