The Sleeper.

BossCre · 06-17-2006, 07:53 AM

(Now...I know it's been said time and time again that Vox and Nagafen are not the parents of Kerafyrm. I've actually seen this stuff in Skyshrine before myself...and have repeatedly told people that Vox and Nagafen are not the parents of Kerafyrm. However...there is a tome that one can acquire and finish labeled "The Age of Destiny" in EQ2. The account is taken from Darathar in a text (he never actually says anything of it, save for "the destruction in the sky" being Kerafyrm's doing). But anyway...here it is. Perhaps the story is being re-written? Or maybe Darathar is lying in a book that one really kind of has to go out of their way to finish for some reason? ...Look.

The Age of Destiny

This book appears to be an extremely valuable illuminated tome. Unfortunately, most of the pages have been ripped out of the book. The title of the story is "The Age of Destiny".

Forward: This volume is a copy of the most recent tome in the library. It is unprecedented to for the Sage of Ages to speak of an Age before it has closed, yet this volume is exactly that. We cannot yet understand what the meaning of these words are. In time they will become clear.

The Sage of Ages, or Sages as the case may be, has observed Norrath for time immemorial.

This story is a glimpse into just one of the many viewpoints of unrecorded history.

The Age of Destiny is upon us. The Ages have come and gone like the passing of a river. The Dragons remain watching their world as they always have done. And now they see sights that alarm them. Many Ages ago, a Law was broken. This was the most sacred of Laws there ever was. And the repercussions of this broken Law are felt to this day.

It is known the Vox and Nagafen had been part of the Ring and they were severed. This has been told before. It is known that they are the Exiled Ones who created a force of destruction that could barely be contained. It is known that they live within their forever prisons to suffer for what they have done. It is known that they are now free.

One was freed from this mortal coil. The Queen of Ice. The Frozen Wyrm. The Lady Vox. She is known by many names, but now she is known only as one - Dead. The faithful Drakota of the Truthbringer felled her within her lair. And this is good.

One was freed from his prison, able to walk this world with ease. The King of Fire. The Enflamed One. Nagafen. He is known by many names, but he is missing the most important - Dead. The faithful Drakota were stopped from completing their task by the use of deceptive magics. But this will not stop the Drakota entirely, for their numbers are many.

But even now, in the Age of Destiny, the Exiled Ones still wish to cause havok and destruction.

For when they broke the first Law, they had a blatant disregard for what they were doing. And now, it is seen that they have broken the Law again. The cost of the first Law being broken was the moon in the sky. Look to it and know the truth. The two of Fire and Ice brought this destruction and must be stopped.

Many Ages ago, the Dragons knew that the Drakota were a very important tool. A tool that could be used to keep order within the world. What they disregarded were the heroes from the lesser races. Even when they looked and saw the possibility, they still did not pay attention. But one Dragon did. The Truthbringer.)

Cusashorn · 06-17-2006, 08:38 AM

Darathar has established time and again that he is a well known liar.

And "The Truthbringer" is Darathar's own self-appointed title.

BossCre · 06-17-2006, 12:06 PM

(Yeah, I know...just found it strange, is all. *shrug*)

Barx · 06-17-2006, 07:08 PM

Aye, anything Darathar says or writes is highly suspect.The fact that he assumes the guise of the Sage of Ages as part of his deception essentially makes anything said by the Sage also suspect. If anything, the book is a piece of propoganda -- Darathar is saying "Look what Naggy and Vox did. Vox is dead and Naggy should be too!" In essence he wants the reader to go out and kill him, since his own plan has failed. How better to make the people of Norrath detest Naggy then to blame him for the destruction of Luclin? Darathar is just hedging his bets... if he can't kill Naggy, maybe he can get someone else to for him? We know he is definately not beyond using adventurers for his own purposes.

SpiceBoi · 06-17-2006, 08:18 PM

I want Naggy, Vox & Darathar plushies for my house. :smileyhappy:

Got that outta my system.

Good read, Boss. Silly Darathar will never learn. When I first started EQ2 & found out that Vox was dead, for real this time, I couldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. Upon seeing her 'ghostly' self chillin' (he he pun) in Permafrost I had to know what was up with Naggy. I was FAR too low level to be sneaking into Sol Eye, but what a thrill it was. Lord Nagafen has suffered enough at the loss of his true love. Darathar needs to lay off & leave him to brood in his lair. If he should begin to stir up major trouble we 'lesser beings' are here to keep him in check.

Zh · 06-17-2006, 10:22 PM

Most definitely interesting although yes, blatant propeganda as well. The True Sage of Ages would be indifferent to events, telling them strictly historically while here after it states Vox's death says "this is good" and I haven't done too much of KoS so what's this linking of the Drakota to Mithaniel Marr they're doing? (The Truthbringer). At the bottom it says that one *Dragon* realized the use of the drakota and calls that dragon The Truthbringer, though that's the nickname of MM.

Cusashorn · 06-17-2006, 10:54 PM

The Truthbringer is Mithanial Marr's sword, if memory serves. Anyway, it's just his own self-proclaimed title because he thinks he's right and never wrong.

Zh · 06-18-2006, 09:57 AM

Ah, I checked the diety listings and it lists Mithaniel Marr - The Truthbringer, just as it lists Cazic-Thule - The Faceless and such. But yeah not suprised he'd be like that.

Mary the Prophetess · 06-18-2006, 12:30 PM

I understand that Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen are not Kerafyrm's parents. That is very clear. I also understand why Vox and Nagafen were sent into exile and by whom.

However, there are persistent hints that Lady Vox did, in fact, produce an egg, (possibly more than one), and that there was a failed attempt to smuggle it to Nagafen. I seem to recall though that there are still rumors that perhaps another egg succeeded in reaching Solusek's Eye.

And that, if successful, a new Prismatic Dragon would have rivaled or exceeded Kerafyrm's power.

What are the facts and rumors around this?

WarShe · 06-19-2006, 06:12 PM

Im not sure what relevance this is but I know for sure at one time there deffinatly was another dragon in Sol, Thats where Ragefire originaly appeared if I remember but he wasnt prismatic.

I dont know for sure but in my mind I always thought of him as Naggy's brother but its been a while and ive forgotten the history of him. My warrior had a full set of his dropped armor Blazzing armor of Fennin Ro.

Sarago · 06-19-2006, 06:24 PM

WarSheol wrote:

Im not sure what relevance this is but I know for sure at one time there deffinatly was another dragon in Sol, Thats where Ragefire originaly appeared if I remember but he wasnt prismatic.

I dont know for sure but in my mind I always thought of him as Naggy's brother but its been a while and ive forgotten the history of him. My warrior had a full set of his dropped armor Blazzing armor of Fennin Ro.

Ragefire appeared in a few different locations throughout EQ1.. But yes he was in Sol as well. I'm not sure of his relation to naggy if any.

WarShe · 06-19-2006, 07:15 PM

An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

Cusashorn · 06-19-2006, 07:49 PM

Well, factoring in Game Mechanics as one way to verify his power, it took about 3 hours 20 minutes for Wudan, Magus Imperialus Magus, and Ascending Dawn to Kill the sleeper on Rallos Zek.

... Ahh good times. I remember watching it all happen with my very eyes.

Anyway, I've said time and again that you shouldn't count the game mechanics to verify a monster's strength from a lore point of view, but when it came to Kerafyrm in EQlive, I think it was justified. He had billions of HP, hit for 7400, had a deathtouch proc with his melee attacks, and the only way they could kill him was to zerg him.

They killed him for the sake of proving that he was indeed a killable mob.

MoD1133 · 06-19-2006, 08:38 PM

WarSheol wrote:

An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

[Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] You say, 'Hail, Melalafen'
[Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] Melalafen says 'We are aware of your presence, fleshling.
[Tue Sep 11 19:22:01 2001] You say, 'who are you ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:22:02 2001] Melalafen says 'We are those who have been in hiding. We are those who have been in waiting. We are those who await the return of our Master.
[Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] You say, 'who is your master ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] Melalafen says 'Our Master? Surely all know of our Master now. It was he who was sleeping. It is he who is now freed. We give him honor, loyalty, and our lives. Jaled'Dar, first of our order, set in motion the events that freed our Master. But the Master has departed quickly, perhaps to challenge the Mother herself, such is his power. We wish to aid our Master, but we fear he is not aware that we exist, for his last memory of Wyrmkind was one of treachery and defeat. We believe we know where he has gone, but we do not know how to reach him.
[Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] You say, 'where has he gone ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] Melalafen says 'We believe that he is in a far distant plane, beyond the powers of even the mightiest dragon to reach. He goes places only Veeshan herself was able to visit. We believe he searches for our long departed Mother, to challenge her for rule of the very heavens. If only we had some means of reaching him, we would give him all our aid! We doubt your pitiful mammal brain is capable of devising a plan where we have failed, but we will listen to your chatter, such is our desperation

IrishWonder · 06-20-2006, 10:52 AM

Mary the Prophetess wrote:
However, there are persistent hints that Lady Vox did, in fact, produce an egg, (possibly more than one), and that there was a failed attempt to smuggle it to Nagafen. I seem to recall though that there are still rumors that perhaps another egg succeeded in reaching Solusek's Eye.

And that, if successful, a new Prismatic Dragon would have rivaled or exceeded Kerafyrm's power.

What are the facts and rumors around this?

Yes, it's true. After the Rending or Shattering, both Nagafen and Vox were able to break free of their prisons and produce a number of prismatic eggs. These eggs are currently under the watch of Nagafen. The prismatic 1.0 revolves around you trying to get one of these eggs, which was stolen by Darather, back to Nagafen. In the end, you accidentally shatter the egg in the fight with Darathar. Upon giving this news to Nagafen, he tells you it's no problem because he is actually in posession of a whole horde of eggs from his courtship with Vox... he only wanted to make sure that the egg was not in the posession of Darathar.

Also, during Deathtoll access, Nagafen makes another reference to his prismatic eggs. I can't remember the exact text... I'm at work and don't have it... but when he's talking about the Droags uniting under his leadership now that the generals of the Awakened Cult are dead, he says something along the lines of "Hey, as soon as my eggs hatch, I'll be the leader of my own prismatic army... ph33r the Naggy!"

In any case, expect this to be a recurring plot in EQ2's future... and most likely a huge deal at some point.

Sarago · 06-20-2006, 07:40 PM

WarSheol wrote:

An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

I've debated this point as well.. Seems a lot of people believe the sleeper could beat Veeshan.. I just don't see how it's possible to destroy a dragon the size (if not bigger) then the planet in which the supposed attacker resides on.

WarShe · 06-20-2006, 08:04 PM

Just want to say I wouldnt base a winner by their size, its a matter of power. I have seen some thing as small as an arrow kill a giant which is much bigger than it is :smileyhappy:

Jaale · 06-21-2006, 05:12 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

Saragoth · 06-21-2006, 06:05 PM

WarSheol wrote:
Just want to say I wouldnt base a winner by their size, its a matter of power. I have seen some thing as small as an arrow kill a giant which is much bigger than it is :smileyhappy:

Ok not to mention that Veeshan is a god... and your incorperating in game mechanics into lore which is a huge no no.. Veeshan Huge with Godly powers... The Sleeper = Normal dragon sized with tremendous mortal dragon powers..

Saragoth · 06-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM
Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age..

MoD1133 · 06-21-2006, 06:09 PM

Saragoth wrote:

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age..

All dragons themselves are immortal too.

MoD1133 · 06-21-2006, 06:25 PM

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power.

I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure.

What rule are you talking about? the rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad.

Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic.

The-Fourm-Pirate · 06-21-2006, 06:59 PM

Saragoth wrote:

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age..

She is also nearly unkillable, if Kerafyrm, by some amazing means, killed Veeshan, she could just come back shortly thereafter just as strong, and do that as many times as nessicary until kerafyrm weakened her enough for her to fade out of existance.

Plus there is the size issue, Veeshan is literally as big as Norrath. Kerafyrm would be squashed like an ant.

Jaale · 06-21-2006, 07:22 PM

MoD1133 wrote:

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power.

I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure.

What rule are you talking about? The rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad.

Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic.

General Rule of Thumb with Dragons that Age denotes power, granted it is mostly in other dragon lore not sure if it has been applied in EQ2 Dragon lore but I assume so as Naggy is much more powerful after 500 years than he was in EQ1 and most if not all the dragons are more powerful than they were.. (Again Naggy is sitting on a hord of Prismatic eggs from Vox so that maybe suplimenting his power.)

Ah I didn't know that Veeshan is a crystalline dragon, do we know how this comes about? (2 prismatic's for example?)

Ok it would appear that i need to brush up on my lore for dragons in EQ2 SMILEY That said why did Kildrukaun make the rule unless it had happened in the past? (I assume that this rule was made before Kerafyrm) so one must have known about that to make such a strong rule, otherwise you could say it about any type of dragon mating, this rule must have originated somewhere. (did Veeshan pass it down and if so why?)

As to Kerafyrm taking out Veeshan I don't believe that, unless there is a way that he can increase his power greatly, he is a different/lower(?) class of dragon after all. I prefer to believe that he is heading to Veeshan to bring to her attention what is going on in her world, as he is supposed to be awake now and heading where only Veeshan has been able to go before (outer space I'm guessing) she has been long absent.

Thanks for the info guys any more is always good SMILEY

MoD1133 · 06-21-2006, 08:25 PM

Jaale wrote:

MoD1133 wrote:

Jaale wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are?

If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan?

Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already?

That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful.....

It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm.

The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.)

Just some food for thought.

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM

Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power.

I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure.

What rule are you talking about? The rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad.

Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic.

General Rule of Thumb with Dragons that Age denotes power, granted it is mostly in other dragon lore not sure if it has been applied in EQ2 Dragon lore but I assume so as Naggy is much more powerful after 500 years than he was in EQ1 and most if not all the dragons are more powerful than they were.. (Again Naggy is sitting on a hord of Prismatic eggs from Vox so that maybe suplimenting his power.)

Ah I didn't know that Veeshan is a crystalline dragon, do we know how this comes about? (2 prismatic's for example?)

Ok it would appear that i need to brush up on my lore for dragons in EQ2 That said why did Kildrukaun make the rule unless it had happened in the past? (I assume that this rule was made before Kerafyrm) so one must have known about that to make such a strong rule, otherwise you could say it about any type of dragon mating, this rule must have originated somewhere. (did Veeshan pass it down and if so why?)

As to Kerafyrm taking out Veeshan I don't believe that, unless there is a way that he can increase his power greatly, he is a different/lower(?) class of dragon after all. I prefer to believe that he is heading to Veeshan to bring to her attention what is going on in her world, as he is supposed to be awake now and heading where only Veeshan has been able to go before (outer space I'm guessing) she has been long absent.

Thanks for the info guys any more is always good

[Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] You say, 'Hail, Melalafen'
[Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] Melalafen says 'We are aware of your presence, fleshling.
[Tue Sep 11 19:22:01 2001] You say, 'who are you ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:22:02 2001] Melalafen says 'We are those who have been in hiding. We are those who have been in waiting. We are those who await the return of our Master.
[Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] You say, 'who is your master ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] Melalafen says 'Our Master? Surely all know of our Master now. It was he who was sleeping. It is he who is now freed. We give him honor, loyalty, and our lives. Jaled'Dar, first of our order, set in motion the events that freed our Master. But the Master has departed quickly, perhaps to challenge the Mother herself, such is his power. We wish to aid our Master, but we fear he is not aware that we exist, for his last memory of Wyrmkind was one of treachery and defeat. We believe we know where he has gone, but we do not know how to reach him.
[Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] You say, 'where has he gone ?'
[Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] Melalafen says 'We believe that he is in a far distant plane, beyond the powers of even the mightiest dragon to reach. He goes places only Veeshan herself was able to visit. We believe he searches for our long departed Mother, to challenge her for rule of the very heavens. If only we had some means of reaching him, we would give him all our aid! We doubt your pitiful mammal brain is capable of devising a plan where we have failed, but we will listen to your chatter, such is our desperation

Theres my little chat with Mel back in EQlive before me and my guild awakened the sleeper on mithaniel marr. Proving just how strong Kerafyrm is. It does seem unlikely that Kerafyrm can defeat her but i bet he can probably fight her for a bit. Veeshan seems much more powerful than Kerafyrm, she marked a whole planet with just one swipe of her massive claws.

I can't say i know why Kildrukaun made the decree but im guessing its because he was the Arch Priest of Veeshan and he probably had some connection with her and knew what she wanted and what she didn't want, he was after all chosen through a divine rite. All Veeshan did was mark norrath, gave life to a gray planet and depositted the first dragons on Norrath and left, none of the dragons ever saw her but knew she existed and what she did. The samething can be said about Veeshan, how do the dragons know she even exists? how do they know she marked a lifeless planet and she was the one responsible for there existance, they just do, just as Kildrkuan knew that there will be consequences with the mating of two dragons of opposing elements. Kildrukaun assumed many things, he said that a prismatic would never come to exist but when one did eventually hatch he changed his beliefs and believed that Kerafyrm was born to fulfill a purpose, he assumed this purpose would be to unite the Ring of Scale and Claws of Veeshan which Kerafyrm has done in a way since the Awakened are dragons from both the Ring of Scale and Claws of Veeshan who previously weren't united and are now united under Kerafyrm.

Kerafyrm is different from other dragons but that doesn't mean his breed is a lower class, they are just dangerous and feared. I suppose Kerafyrm is going to her to get her attention as you said, but like Melalafen said, his last memory of dragonkind is that of treachery and defeat.

Another thing to also note is that, it seems Jaled Dar and Melalafem are the founders of the Awakened but thats off topic.

WarShe · 06-21-2006, 11:27 PM

Veeshan, marks the planet with claw marks supposedly, right?

How do we know it was Veeshan that did this? Who claims it was Veeshan and not just any Crystalline dragon from space?

How do we know Veeshan is really a god?

Quoting some thing over looked for a while

"it is rumored amongst the most intellegent races of Norrath that first came the dragons. The great Crystalline dragon, ruler over the plane of sky deposited life onto a lifeless planet, and with one swipe of her mighty claws laid claim to the promise of a new world."

1, it is Rumored, this is as good as guessing how your world was made.

2, Deposited life, this could have simply been laid eggs on or dropped a friend off here. it is Not clear.

3, No where does it indicat the dragons name just that it is a her. Do you know how many crystalline dragons can fly in space that are female? Because I sure dont.

4, No mention that magic was used in any way shape or form, or that it was done by a god, simply says "ruler over the plane of sky".

So many things have been told for so long they are simply accepted as truth and fact, and many of these things we think we know for sure are based off of Rumors as is this.

Not to mention if Veeshan isnt as powerfull as she would like us to beleive would she say? No of coourse not. And as I saw mentioned if she really is missing an eye and a claw think it was, this is a big deal, you all try running around with one eye let alone fly through space and see how many things you run into heh.

and finaly Dragons age = Wisdom from all ive heard in norrath any way.

The direct quote I have above I wrote word for word from the starting original movie for EQLive from 1999.

Cusashorn · 06-22-2006, 12:44 AM

WarSheol wrote:

Veeshan, marks the planet with claw marks supposedly, right?

How do we know it was Veeshan that did this? Who claims it was Veeshan and not just any Crystalline dragon from space?

How do we know Veeshan is really a god?

Quoting some thing over looked for a while

"it is rumored amongst the most intellegent races of Norrath that first came the dragons. The great Crystalline dragon, ruler over the plane of sky deposited life onto a lifeless planet, and with one swipe of her mighty claws laid claim to the promise of a new world."

1, it is Rumored, this is as good as guessing how your world was made.

2, Deposited life, this could have simply been laid eggs on or dropped a friend off here. it is Not clear.

3, No where does it indicat the dragons name just that it is a her. Do you know how many crystalline dragons can fly in space that are female? Because I sure dont.

4, No mention that magic was used in any way shape or form, or that it was done by a god, simply says "ruler over the plane of sky".

So many things have been told for so long they are simply accepted as truth and fact, and many of these things we think we know for sure are based off of Rumors as is this.

Not to mention if Veeshan isnt as powerfull as she would like us to beleive would she say? No of coourse not. And as I saw mentioned if she really is missing an eye and a claw think it was, this is a big deal, you all try running around with one eye let alone fly through space and see how many things you run into heh.

and finaly Dragons age = Wisdom from all ive heard in norrath any way.

The direct quote I have above I wrote word for word from the starting original movie for EQLive from 1999.

Don't question the opening movie from Everquest. If it says she's a god, then She's a god. If it says she created the Great Divide with her foretalon and created two huge ravines in the Western Wastes with her two back claws, then she did. If it says that she made Norrath inhabatable in the first place, and the dragons were the first creatures to live on Norrath, then she did, and they were.

WarShe · 06-22-2006, 01:05 AM

"Don't question the opening movie from Everquest. If it says she's a god, then She's a god. If it says she created the Great Divide with her foretalon and created two huge ravines in the Western Wastes with her two back claws, then she did. If it says that she made Norrath inhabatable in the first place, and the dragons were the first creatures to live on Norrath, then she did, and they were. "

I pointed out that it does say Rumored and does not say god Anywhere. It does not even say Veeshan at all in the actual movie. You didnt read my post at all did you? lol :smileyhappy:

Cusashorn · 06-22-2006, 01:13 AM

A good poster never reads. They skim. It draws out the argument better if you don't read all the points. SMILEY

Edit:

Woot! 5000.

Message Edited by Cusashorn on 06-21-2006 04:13 PM

Dynn The Mo · 06-22-2006, 06:00 AM

I don't see why you're doubting official lore. Veeshan is definately a god, and is the only 'great crystalline dragon' the last time I checked.

06-17-2006, 07:53 AM	#1
BossCre General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	(Now...I know it's been said time and time again that Vox and Nagafen are not the parents of Kerafyrm. I've actually seen this stuff in Skyshrine before myself...and have repeatedly told people that Vox and Nagafen are not the parents of Kerafyrm. However...there is a tome that one can acquire and finish labeled "The Age of Destiny" in EQ2. The account is taken from Darathar in a text (he never actually says anything of it, save for "the destruction in the sky" being Kerafyrm's doing). But anyway...here it is. Perhaps the story is being re-written? Or maybe Darathar is lying in a book that one really kind of has to go out of their way to finish for some reason? ...Look. The Age of Destiny This book appears to be an extremely valuable illuminated tome. Unfortunately, most of the pages have been ripped out of the book. The title of the story is "The Age of Destiny". Forward: This volume is a copy of the most recent tome in the library. It is unprecedented to for the Sage of Ages to speak of an Age before it has closed, yet this volume is exactly that. We cannot yet understand what the meaning of these words are. In time they will become clear. The Sage of Ages, or Sages as the case may be, has observed Norrath for time immemorial. This story is a glimpse into just one of the many viewpoints of unrecorded history. The Age of Destiny is upon us. The Ages have come and gone like the passing of a river. The Dragons remain watching their world as they always have done. And now they see sights that alarm them. Many Ages ago, a Law was broken. This was the most sacred of Laws there ever was. And the repercussions of this broken Law are felt to this day. It is known the Vox and Nagafen had been part of the Ring and they were severed. This has been told before. It is known that they are the Exiled Ones who created a force of destruction that could barely be contained. It is known that they live within their forever prisons to suffer for what they have done. It is known that they are now free. One was freed from this mortal coil. The Queen of Ice. The Frozen Wyrm. The Lady Vox. She is known by many names, but now she is known only as one - Dead. The faithful Drakota of the Truthbringer felled her within her lair. And this is good. One was freed from his prison, able to walk this world with ease. The King of Fire. The Enflamed One. Nagafen. He is known by many names, but he is missing the most important - Dead. The faithful Drakota were stopped from completing their task by the use of deceptive magics. But this will not stop the Drakota entirely, for their numbers are many. But even now, in the Age of Destiny, the Exiled Ones still wish to cause havok and destruction. For when they broke the first Law, they had a blatant disregard for what they were doing. And now, it is seen that they have broken the Law again. The cost of the first Law being broken was the moon in the sky. Look to it and know the truth. The two of Fire and Ice brought this destruction and must be stopped. Many Ages ago, the Dragons knew that the Drakota were a very important tool. A tool that could be used to keep order within the world. What they disregarded were the heroes from the lesser races. Even when they looked and saw the possibility, they still did not pay attention. But one Dragon did. The Truthbringer.) __________________

06-17-2006, 12:06 PM	#3
BossCre General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	(Yeah, I know...just found it strange, is all. shrug) __________________

06-17-2006, 08:18 PM	#5
SpiceBoi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 60	I want Naggy, Vox & Darathar plushies for my house. :smileyhappy: Got that outta my system. Good read, Boss. Silly Darathar will never learn. When I first started EQ2 & found out that Vox was dead, for real this time, I couldn't believe it until I saw it for myself. Upon seeing her 'ghostly' self chillin' (he he pun) in Permafrost I had to know what was up with Naggy. I was FAR too low level to be sneaking into Sol Eye, but what a thrill it was. Lord Nagafen has suffered enough at the loss of his true love. Darathar needs to lay off & leave him to brood in his lair. If he should begin to stir up major trouble we 'lesser beings' are here to keep him in check. __________________

06-17-2006, 10:22 PM	#6
Zh Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 104	Most definitely interesting although yes, blatant propeganda as well. The True Sage of Ages would be indifferent to events, telling them strictly historically while here after it states Vox's death says "this is good" and I haven't done too much of KoS so what's this linking of the Drakota to Mithaniel Marr they're doing? (The Truthbringer). At the bottom it says that one Dragon realized the use of the drakota and calls that dragon The Truthbringer, though that's the nickname of MM. __________________ VideoGameVoters Unrest Johnny - 58 HUM Bruiser Xilekulus - 55 IKS RNG

06-18-2006, 09:57 AM	#8
Zh Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 104	Ah, I checked the diety listings and it lists Mithaniel Marr - The Truthbringer, just as it lists Cazic-Thule - The Faceless and such. But yeah not suprised he'd be like that. __________________ VideoGameVoters Unrest Johnny - 58 HUM Bruiser Xilekulus - 55 IKS RNG

06-17-2006, 08:38 AM	#2
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Darathar has established time and again that he is a well known liar. And "The Truthbringer" is Darathar's own self-appointed title.

06-17-2006, 07:08 PM	#4
Barx Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Mayhem Rank: Officers Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Manors of Mithaniel, New Halas Posts: 3,480	Aye, anything Darathar says or writes is highly suspect.The fact that he assumes the guise of the Sage of Ages as part of his deception essentially makes anything said by the Sage also suspect. If anything, the book is a piece of propoganda -- Darathar is saying "Look what Naggy and Vox did. Vox is dead and Naggy should be too!" In essence he wants the reader to go out and kill him, since his own plan has failed. How better to make the people of Norrath detest Naggy then to blame him for the destruction of Luclin? Darathar is just hedging his bets... if he can't kill Naggy, maybe he can get someone else to for him? We know he is definately not beyond using adventurers for his own purposes.

06-17-2006, 10:54 PM	#7
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	The Truthbringer is Mithanial Marr's sword, if memory serves. Anyway, it's just his own self-proclaimed title because he thinks he's right and never wrong.

06-18-2006, 12:30 PM	#9
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	I understand that Lady Vox and Lord Nagafen are not Kerafyrm's parents. That is very clear. I also understand why Vox and Nagafen were sent into exile and by whom. However, there are persistent hints that Lady Vox did, in fact, produce an egg, (possibly more than one), and that there was a failed attempt to smuggle it to Nagafen. I seem to recall though that there are still rumors that perhaps another egg succeeded in reaching Solusek's Eye. And that, if successful, a new Prismatic Dragon would have rivaled or exceeded Kerafyrm's power. What are the facts and rumors around this?

06-19-2006, 06:12 PM	#10
WarShe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Im not sure what relevance this is but I know for sure at one time there deffinatly was another dragon in Sol, Thats where Ragefire originaly appeared if I remember but he wasnt prismatic. I dont know for sure but in my mind I always thought of him as Naggy's brother but its been a while and ive forgotten the history of him. My warrior had a full set of his dropped armor Blazzing armor of Fennin Ro. __________________ Wars - of Antonia Bayle Server. Sect of Sheol - Leader.

06-19-2006, 06:24 PM	#11
Sarago Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13	WarSheol wrote: Im not sure what relevance this is but I know for sure at one time there deffinatly was another dragon in Sol, Thats where Ragefire originaly appeared if I remember but he wasnt prismatic. I dont know for sure but in my mind I always thought of him as Naggy's brother but its been a while and ive forgotten the history of him. My warrior had a full set of his dropped armor Blazzing armor of Fennin Ro. Ragefire appeared in a few different locations throughout EQ1.. But yes he was in Sol as well. I'm not sure of his relation to naggy if any.

06-19-2006, 07:15 PM	#12
WarShe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 __________________ Wars - of Antonia Bayle Server. Sect of Sheol - Leader.

06-19-2006, 07:49 PM	#13
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Well, factoring in Game Mechanics as one way to verify his power, it took about 3 hours 20 minutes for Wudan, Magus Imperialus Magus, and Ascending Dawn to Kill the sleeper on Rallos Zek. ... Ahh good times. I remember watching it all happen with my very eyes. Anyway, I've said time and again that you shouldn't count the game mechanics to verify a monster's strength from a lore point of view, but when it came to Kerafyrm in EQlive, I think it was justified. He had billions of HP, hit for 7400, had a deathtouch proc with his melee attacks, and the only way they could kill him was to zerg him. They killed him for the sake of proving that he was indeed a killable mob.

06-19-2006, 08:38 PM	#14
MoD1133 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 210	WarSheol wrote: An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 [Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] You say, 'Hail, Melalafen' [Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] Melalafen says 'We are aware of your presence, fleshling. [Tue Sep 11 19:22:01 2001] You say, 'who are you ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:22:02 2001] Melalafen says 'We are those who have been in hiding. We are those who have been in waiting. We are those who await the return of our Master. [Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] You say, 'who is your master ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] Melalafen says 'Our Master? Surely all know of our Master now. It was he who was sleeping. It is he who is now freed. We give him honor, loyalty, and our lives. Jaled'Dar, first of our order, set in motion the events that freed our Master. But the Master has departed quickly, perhaps to challenge the Mother herself, such is his power. We wish to aid our Master, but we fear he is not aware that we exist, for his last memory of Wyrmkind was one of treachery and defeat. We believe we know where he has gone, but we do not know how to reach him. [Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] You say, 'where has he gone ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] Melalafen says 'We believe that he is in a far distant plane, beyond the powers of even the mightiest dragon to reach. He goes places only Veeshan herself was able to visit. We believe he searches for our long departed Mother, to challenge her for rule of the very heavens. If only we had some means of reaching him, we would give him all our aid! We doubt your pitiful mammal brain is capable of devising a plan where we have failed, but we will listen to your chatter, such is our desperation

06-20-2006, 10:52 AM	#15
IrishWonder Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 458	Mary the Prophetess wrote: However, there are persistent hints that Lady Vox did, in fact, produce an egg, (possibly more than one), and that there was a failed attempt to smuggle it to Nagafen. I seem to recall though that there are still rumors that perhaps another egg succeeded in reaching Solusek's Eye. And that, if successful, a new Prismatic Dragon would have rivaled or exceeded Kerafyrm's power. What are the facts and rumors around this? Yes, it's true. After the Rending or Shattering, both Nagafen and Vox were able to break free of their prisons and produce a number of prismatic eggs. These eggs are currently under the watch of Nagafen. The prismatic 1.0 revolves around you trying to get one of these eggs, which was stolen by Darather, back to Nagafen. In the end, you accidentally shatter the egg in the fight with Darathar. Upon giving this news to Nagafen, he tells you it's no problem because he is actually in posession of a whole horde of eggs from his courtship with Vox... he only wanted to make sure that the egg was not in the posession of Darathar. Also, during Deathtoll access, Nagafen makes another reference to his prismatic eggs. I can't remember the exact text... I'm at work and don't have it... but when he's talking about the Droags uniting under his leadership now that the generals of the Awakened Cult are dead, he says something along the lines of "Hey, as soon as my eggs hatch, I'll be the leader of my own prismatic army... ph33r the Naggy!" In any case, expect this to be a recurring plot in EQ2's future... and most likely a huge deal at some point. __________________ The only Light you'll see from me, is that which burns the soul to see. Shadowreap Deathbane, The First Dark Elf Conjuror on Guk troopsofdoom.com - VIDEOS OF RAID MOBS!!! Nexona, Trakanon, Wuoshi, and more!

06-20-2006, 07:40 PM	#16
Sarago Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13	WarSheol wrote: An interesting old thread from EQlive argued that the Sleeper stood a slim chance against Veeshan, of course its all speculation and there is no absolute answer but shows how powerfull Sleeper is/could be. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=404&view=by_date_ascending&page=1 I've debated this point as well.. Seems a lot of people believe the sleeper could beat Veeshan.. I just don't see how it's possible to destroy a dragon the size (if not bigger) then the planet in which the supposed attacker resides on.

06-20-2006, 08:04 PM	#17
WarShe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Just want to say I wouldnt base a winner by their size, its a matter of power. I have seen some thing as small as an arrow kill a giant which is much bigger than it is :smileyhappy: __________________ Wars - of Antonia Bayle Server. Sect of Sheol - Leader.

06-21-2006, 05:12 PM	#18
Jaale Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 185	Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM

06-21-2006, 06:05 PM	#19
Saragoth Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7	WarSheol wrote: Just want to say I wouldnt base a winner by their size, its a matter of power. I have seen some thing as small as an arrow kill a giant which is much bigger than it is :smileyhappy: Ok not to mention that Veeshan is a god... and your incorperating in game mechanics into lore which is a huge no no.. Veeshan Huge with Godly powers... The Sleeper = Normal dragon sized with tremendous mortal dragon powers..

06-21-2006, 06:06 PM	#20
Saragoth Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7	Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age..

06-21-2006, 06:09 PM	#21
MoD1133 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 210	Saragoth wrote: Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age.. All dragons themselves are immortal too.

06-21-2006, 06:25 PM	#22
MoD1133 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 210	Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power. I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure. What rule are you talking about? the rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad. Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic.

06-21-2006, 06:59 PM	#23
The-Fourm-Pirate Lord Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 482	Saragoth wrote: Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM Your forgetting something... Veeshan is a god and thus doesn't age.. She is also nearly unkillable, if Kerafyrm, by some amazing means, killed Veeshan, she could just come back shortly thereafter just as strong, and do that as many times as nessicary until kerafyrm weakened her enough for her to fade out of existance. Plus there is the size issue, Veeshan is literally as big as Norrath. Kerafyrm would be squashed like an ant. __________________ Desann: 70 Brigand Bossk: 70 Inquisitor

06-21-2006, 07:22 PM	#24
Jaale Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 185	MoD1133 wrote: Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power. I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure. What rule are you talking about? The rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad. Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic. General Rule of Thumb with Dragons that Age denotes power, granted it is mostly in other dragon lore not sure if it has been applied in EQ2 Dragon lore but I assume so as Naggy is much more powerful after 500 years than he was in EQ1 and most if not all the dragons are more powerful than they were.. (Again Naggy is sitting on a hord of Prismatic eggs from Vox so that maybe suplimenting his power.) Ah I didn't know that Veeshan is a crystalline dragon, do we know how this comes about? (2 prismatic's for example?) Ok it would appear that i need to brush up on my lore for dragons in EQ2 That said why did Kildrukaun make the rule unless it had happened in the past? (I assume that this rule was made before Kerafyrm) so one must have known about that to make such a strong rule, otherwise you could say it about any type of dragon mating, this rule must have originated somewhere. (did Veeshan pass it down and if so why?) As to Kerafyrm taking out Veeshan I don't believe that, unless there is a way that he can increase his power greatly, he is a different/lower(?) class of dragon after all. I prefer to believe that he is heading to Veeshan to bring to her attention what is going on in her world, as he is supposed to be awake now and heading where only Veeshan has been able to go before (outer space I'm guessing) she has been long absent. Thanks for the info guys any more is always good

06-21-2006, 08:25 PM	#25
MoD1133 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 210	Jaale wrote: MoD1133 wrote: Jaale wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dragon gain more power the older they are? If that is the case, a new dragon (comparatively) wouldn't stand a chance against a dragon the age of Veeshan? Also what makes people think that this is the first time that this has happened? I would assume that the rule is there for a reason... and for the rule to happen some one must have tried it out to see the results already? That would mean that either the first try was put down, or that Veeshan is an ancient prismatic herself after beating the original Dragon God, but that still revolves back to age bringing strength/wisdom in dragons and Kerafyrm being much younger and therefore not as powerful..... It could also follow that after a time the older Veeshan could be on the decline power wise just ripe for a take over from Kerafyrm, that would lead to every so often the old dragon god would be replaced by a newer version of a Prismatic from an earlier seeded planet, in which case there maybe a planet already out there that has been seeded by Kerafyrm. The Law could be there knowing that it will be broken but it will not happen that often, stopping the skys from being filled with Prismatics from hundreds of planets causeing a rumpus like never seen before, something that maybe even the Nameless would have to step in to stop. (Maybe he already has once and created the Law himself.) Just some food for thought. Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:15 PM Message Edited by Jaale on 06-21-2006 02:18 PM I have never heard of a dragons age effecting his/her power. I doubt Kerafyrm can take a god on, but the dragons do say he has the power to so we can't know for sure. What rule are you talking about? The rule about dragons of opposing elements should never mate or they may end up getting a prismatic dragon? This rule was made by Kildrukaun when he was eventually chosen as the new Arch Priest of Veeshan, the first rule he made was to never let two dragons of opposing elements mate with each other or it would have dire consequences, he believed it was against Veeshans will and that it would lead to dire consequences, they never said what the mating of two opposing dragons would lead to but it will be bad. Veeshan is a crystalline dragon not a prismatic. General Rule of Thumb with Dragons that Age denotes power, granted it is mostly in other dragon lore not sure if it has been applied in EQ2 Dragon lore but I assume so as Naggy is much more powerful after 500 years than he was in EQ1 and most if not all the dragons are more powerful than they were.. (Again Naggy is sitting on a hord of Prismatic eggs from Vox so that maybe suplimenting his power.) Ah I didn't know that Veeshan is a crystalline dragon, do we know how this comes about? (2 prismatic's for example?) Ok it would appear that i need to brush up on my lore for dragons in EQ2 That said why did Kildrukaun make the rule unless it had happened in the past? (I assume that this rule was made before Kerafyrm) so one must have known about that to make such a strong rule, otherwise you could say it about any type of dragon mating, this rule must have originated somewhere. (did Veeshan pass it down and if so why?) As to Kerafyrm taking out Veeshan I don't believe that, unless there is a way that he can increase his power greatly, he is a different/lower(?) class of dragon after all. I prefer to believe that he is heading to Veeshan to bring to her attention what is going on in her world, as he is supposed to be awake now and heading where only Veeshan has been able to go before (outer space I'm guessing) she has been long absent. Thanks for the info guys any more is always good [Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] You say, 'Hail, Melalafen' [Tue Sep 11 19:17:11 2001] Melalafen says 'We are aware of your presence, fleshling. [Tue Sep 11 19:22:01 2001] You say, 'who are you ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:22:02 2001] Melalafen says 'We are those who have been in hiding. We are those who have been in waiting. We are those who await the return of our Master. [Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] You say, 'who is your master ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:24:26 2001] Melalafen says 'Our Master? Surely all know of our Master now. It was he who was sleeping. It is he who is now freed. We give him honor, loyalty, and our lives. Jaled'Dar, first of our order, set in motion the events that freed our Master. But the Master has departed quickly, perhaps to challenge the Mother herself, such is his power. We wish to aid our Master, but we fear he is not aware that we exist, for his last memory of Wyrmkind was one of treachery and defeat. We believe we know where he has gone, but we do not know how to reach him. [Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] You say, 'where has he gone ?' [Tue Sep 11 19:32:16 2001] Melalafen says 'We believe that he is in a far distant plane, beyond the powers of even the mightiest dragon to reach. He goes places only Veeshan herself was able to visit. We believe he searches for our long departed Mother, to challenge her for rule of the very heavens. If only we had some means of reaching him, we would give him all our aid! We doubt your pitiful mammal brain is capable of devising a plan where we have failed, but we will listen to your chatter, such is our desperation Theres my little chat with Mel back in EQlive before me and my guild awakened the sleeper on mithaniel marr. Proving just how strong Kerafyrm is. It does seem unlikely that Kerafyrm can defeat her but i bet he can probably fight her for a bit. Veeshan seems much more powerful than Kerafyrm, she marked a whole planet with just one swipe of her massive claws. I can't say i know why Kildrukaun made the decree but im guessing its because he was the Arch Priest of Veeshan and he probably had some connection with her and knew what she wanted and what she didn't want, he was after all chosen through a divine rite. All Veeshan did was mark norrath, gave life to a gray planet and depositted the first dragons on Norrath and left, none of the dragons ever saw her but knew she existed and what she did. The samething can be said about Veeshan, how do the dragons know she even exists? how do they know she marked a lifeless planet and she was the one responsible for there existance, they just do, just as Kildrkuan knew that there will be consequences with the mating of two dragons of opposing elements. Kildrukaun assumed many things, he said that a prismatic would never come to exist but when one did eventually hatch he changed his beliefs and believed that Kerafyrm was born to fulfill a purpose, he assumed this purpose would be to unite the Ring of Scale and Claws of Veeshan which Kerafyrm has done in a way since the Awakened are dragons from both the Ring of Scale and Claws of Veeshan who previously weren't united and are now united under Kerafyrm. Kerafyrm is different from other dragons but that doesn't mean his breed is a lower class, they are just dangerous and feared. I suppose Kerafyrm is going to her to get her attention as you said, but like Melalafen said, his last memory of dragonkind is that of treachery and defeat. Another thing to also note is that, it seems Jaled Dar and Melalafem are the founders of the Awakened but thats off topic.

06-21-2006, 11:27 PM	#26
WarShe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	Veeshan, marks the planet with claw marks supposedly, right? How do we know it was Veeshan that did this? Who claims it was Veeshan and not just any Crystalline dragon from space? How do we know Veeshan is really a god? Quoting some thing over looked for a while "it is rumored amongst the most intellegent races of Norrath that first came the dragons. The great Crystalline dragon, ruler over the plane of sky deposited life onto a lifeless planet, and with one swipe of her mighty claws laid claim to the promise of a new world." 1, it is Rumored, this is as good as guessing how your world was made. 2, Deposited life, this could have simply been laid eggs on or dropped a friend off here. it is Not clear. 3, No where does it indicat the dragons name just that it is a her. Do you know how many crystalline dragons can fly in space that are female? Because I sure dont. 4, No mention that magic was used in any way shape or form, or that it was done by a god, simply says "ruler over the plane of sky". So many things have been told for so long they are simply accepted as truth and fact, and many of these things we think we know for sure are based off of Rumors as is this. Not to mention if Veeshan isnt as powerfull as she would like us to beleive would she say? No of coourse not. And as I saw mentioned if she really is missing an eye and a claw think it was, this is a big deal, you all try running around with one eye let alone fly through space and see how many things you run into heh. and finaly Dragons age = Wisdom from all ive heard in norrath any way. The direct quote I have above I wrote word for word from the starting original movie for EQLive from 1999. __________________ Wars - of Antonia Bayle Server. Sect of Sheol - Leader.

06-22-2006, 12:44 AM	#27
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	WarSheol wrote: Veeshan, marks the planet with claw marks supposedly, right? How do we know it was Veeshan that did this? Who claims it was Veeshan and not just any Crystalline dragon from space? How do we know Veeshan is really a god? Quoting some thing over looked for a while "it is rumored amongst the most intellegent races of Norrath that first came the dragons. The great Crystalline dragon, ruler over the plane of sky deposited life onto a lifeless planet, and with one swipe of her mighty claws laid claim to the promise of a new world." 1, it is Rumored, this is as good as guessing how your world was made. 2, Deposited life, this could have simply been laid eggs on or dropped a friend off here. it is Not clear. 3, No where does it indicat the dragons name just that it is a her. Do you know how many crystalline dragons can fly in space that are female? Because I sure dont. 4, No mention that magic was used in any way shape or form, or that it was done by a god, simply says "ruler over the plane of sky". So many things have been told for so long they are simply accepted as truth and fact, and many of these things we think we know for sure are based off of Rumors as is this. Not to mention if Veeshan isnt as powerfull as she would like us to beleive would she say? No of coourse not. And as I saw mentioned if she really is missing an eye and a claw think it was, this is a big deal, you all try running around with one eye let alone fly through space and see how many things you run into heh. and finaly Dragons age = Wisdom from all ive heard in norrath any way. The direct quote I have above I wrote word for word from the starting original movie for EQLive from 1999. Don't question the opening movie from Everquest. If it says she's a god, then She's a god. If it says she created the Great Divide with her foretalon and created two huge ravines in the Western Wastes with her two back claws, then she did. If it says that she made Norrath inhabatable in the first place, and the dragons were the first creatures to live on Norrath, then she did, and they were.

06-22-2006, 01:05 AM	#28
WarShe General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 118	"Don't question the opening movie from Everquest. If it says she's a god, then She's a god. If it says she created the Great Divide with her foretalon and created two huge ravines in the Western Wastes with her two back claws, then she did. If it says that she made Norrath inhabatable in the first place, and the dragons were the first creatures to live on Norrath, then she did, and they were. " I pointed out that it does say Rumored and does not say god Anywhere. It does not even say Veeshan at all in the actual movie. You didnt read my post at all did you? lol :smileyhappy: __________________ Wars - of Antonia Bayle Server. Sect of Sheol - Leader.

06-22-2006, 01:13 AM	#29
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	A good poster never reads. They skim. It draws out the argument better if you don't read all the points. Edit: Woot! 5000. Message Edited by Cusashorn on 06-21-2006 04:13 PM

06-22-2006, 06:00 AM	#30
Dynn The Mo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14	I don't see why you're doubting official lore. Veeshan is definately a god, and is the only 'great crystalline dragon' the last time I checked.