How many defilers does a guild really need?

[Kaku99]

I'm curious.  Since defilers aren't DPS classes and don't really fit in the mainstream of healers, how many defilers does a guild really need?  They can always use more DPS classes but how many defilers can a guild absorb due to our highly specialized abilities? 

 

I'd appreciate any insight those of you who raid can provide.

 

Snowfall 

Defiler Najeena

 

Message Edited by Kaku99 on 06-30-2006 10:15 AM

[sostrows]

Type A raiding guild (30-40 ppl, high raid % attendance, raids 4-7 days a week) = 1-2Type B raiding guild (75ppl, lower raid attendance per person but raids 4-7 days a week) = 3-4You always want to have at least 1 defiler on a raid and 2 defilers is good also (one in MT grp and one doing grp healer/debuff duty).  3 is probably too many unless there is a general lack of healers.Don't be mislead by the term "healer".  Good defilers always parse at top of raid for healing when you include wards and parsers can't capture debuffs.

Message Edited by sostrows on 06-30-2006 03:47 PM

[Anduian Le'Suri]

It really depends on the flavor of your guild. I have found that in a heavy raiding guild no more then two defilers in a raid formation is ideal. That is unless you have a lack of other healers on. By no means are defilers not healers, both the raid defilers for our guild parse out somewhere in the middle to upper half in the longer named fights. Its the warding and direct to health and power buffs that put us in the MT group over Mystics. As well since most named raid content is essentially a worry about the main mob, our single direct debuffing makes a huge difference.The above poster was right on the money with how many defilers a guild can absorb, and I would add its about attendance as well. If you only have 2 defilers, and they show up 80%++ of the time, then do you really need more then that?We have 3 defilers on our roster, and we usually have 1 or 2 show up every single raid. Sometimes we even have all three because defilers bring so much to a group in a raid formation. Just remeber to stay within group healing and group warding range of the defiler, and any group will be fine with our services.

[MilkToa]

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Kaku99 wrote:

I'm curious.  Since defilers aren't DPS classes and don't really fit in the mainstream of healers, how many defilers does a guild really need?  They can always use more DPS classes but how many defilers can a guild absorb due to our highly specialized abilities? 

 

I'd appreciate any insight those of you who raid can provide.

 

Snowfall 

Defiler Najeena

 

Message Edited by Kaku99 on 06-30-2006 10:15 AM

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I'm not sure what you mean by "don't fit in the mainstream of healers". From my perspective where as much a mainstream healer as the other healing classes.

[Jazmynn]

I like seeing 2 shaman on every raid... hopefully one mystic and one defiler.  Ideally in our high playtime guild we would have 4 shamans in total, 2 mystics and 2 defilers...  My wards make quite a difference on raids, I would definately not discount a shamans healing contribution to any raid... have you watched your raid parse lately?

[Scow]

We have 42 people in our guild and we finally got a second defiler since one of our other Shaman (Mystic) got his account banned. So we have 4 shaman 2 Mystics and two defilers.

[radical_EDWARD]

2 defilers and 1 mystic would be best, 

[sostrows]

parsed a Deathtoll run last night.i crushed the MT warden & templar statwise.  stronger the tank, the better the defiler numbers become as less attacks get through wards/debuffs.i think of defiler/brigand/inq as the 3 primo debuff classes.

[Sokolov]

A guild needs enough defilers to ensure there is one on every raid =D All the other healers can, except for the Mystic, for the most part, be interchanged and you wouldn't have much of a difference.  But if you lose that Defiler.. Mystics are there too with us, tho I think if you are considering which healer is the most missed if missing - it's easily the Defiler.

[Flor]

From the perspection of a person who plays a high level fury and starting to experience the upper end content of the game, I have a much better understanding of the strengths and limitations of each of the healing classes.  In my opinion,  I think that defilers are essential to the success of any group/raid situation.  Our well sized guild has none.  I think that we have one mystic.  I can tell you one thing, not having a shaman type of class really, really hurts us in our groups and raids.  The above posts are right on I think.

As a result, I rolled up a baby defiler and I really like the class.  I find myself not having heal quite as hard as I do with my fury.  Don't get me wrong, I love my fury.  But at times, I really have trouble keeping up, especially if the MT gets a huge damage spike.  Unfortunately, there seem to be so many furies now days because of the pretty good nukes and being able to dish out good DPS.  I've been feeling for awhile that we are a dime a dozen.  So I rolled up a defiler and I love her.  I can see how how a shaman class would be essential on raids.

Just my opinion.  I've played every type of healer in this game, at least up to the 40's.  Right now, I am really liking my defiler in group situations.  She is still a baby (level 1 but our group last evening was taking some some really tough situations and surviving.  I plan on playing her up to end game so I have a healer for any raid situation.

[Argyuile]

    I think Sok is spot on.  You need enouph to ensure you have 1 at every raid.

[sostrows]

thanks for the input Floria.  if you enjoy the class at 18, you're in for a treat as you start gaining more spells and options on how to keep your group up.

Message Edited by sostrows on 07-03-2006 10:25 AM

[Shadus]

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Kaku99 wrote:

I'm curious.  Since defilers aren't DPS classes and don't really fit in the mainstream of healers, how many defilers does a guild really need?  They can always use more DPS classes but how many defilers can a guild absorb due to our highly specialized abilities? 

 

I'd appreciate any insight those of you who raid can provide.

 

Snowfall 

Defiler Najeena

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Our guild has a distinct lack of defilers and shamans in general.  We have 1 mystic at present, I'd like to see a defiler or two, it would make the raiding much easier and give us a much wider variety of targets.  Our guild has the opposite problem of too many defilers... we have to many other healers... infact a good 1/3rd of our late 60s-70 population is healers heh.  Mostly druids of some sort or another but we have a few clerics (3).  Raiding I've found my prefered setup to be a shaman & druid in group1, any one healer for groups 2-4.  There are a few raids that need more than 5 healers but not many to many.  Defilers are one of the better healers in all honesty.

[Supa Mint Flava]

Would say a raiding guild should have 2 Defilers. 

 

Having played a Defiler in a high-end raiding guild, and completing Nizara  a number of times with different class/healer combo's, it's really difficult to say Defiler is "better than" another type of healer, because they all have their niche.  Shaman wards take a while to cast, so it's critical to have a faster casting healer in group, such as a druid.  We simply slap on a layer of damage prevention so that the other healers can get the tank back up in the green for that short second, and help keep the MT group alive when the nasty ae hits.  Given the combo of healing style, debuffs, etc., I really enjoy playing Defiler.  Every raiding guild should have at least one shaman.

[Habita]

i think 2 shamans on a raid is the optimum... debuffing, warding... what should a 3rd shaman do? there are 2 im my guild, me and a defiler, both 100% attendance. just ideal.....  (wwahrhawhr for loot too   )

[Facedown]

We always ran 3 shamans, we had about 28 people in the guild with 99% attendance, back when I was playing/raiding that is. 2 Defilers and a mystic. The guild kinda had a hard on for the mystic so she was in the MT group 90% of the time even when a defiler would have been a better choice for the situation. 2 Defilers left me or him in the MT group and it really helps to have an extra defiler with you so you can focus on one aspect and the other defiler can pick up your extra stuff so you dont get overwhelmed and forget key stuff like, warding

[sostrows]

2 defilers and 1 mystic is our preferred setup.

Message Edited by sostrows on 07-08-2006 10:41 PM

[Bjerde]

Shadus wrote:Raiding I've found my prefered setup to be a shaman & druid in group1, any one healer for groups 2-4.  There are a few raids that need more than 5 healers but not many to many.  Defilers are one of the better healers in all honesty.Honestly, not sure why it wouldn't be Templar and Defiler. Unless you don't have a Templar, Druids are wonderful raids healers for the DPS groups (especially Fury for the buffs) but the group regen just keeps everyones health up nicely. For the MT group Templar and Defiler buff the HP the most (equal amounts), the wards can absorb some huge hits and the Templar has Stoneskin for the tank, plus more little heal tools to pick up healing more than any other priest class (all in-group)...and Sanctuary for those stun-pulls.Raven 68 Defiler 

[arieste]

I am not a raid leader, as such I speak with a bit less authority than is possible.  However, I am a defiler in a high end raiding guild.

We almost always have 2 defilers in a raid, sometimes we also have a mystic as well.  I would say that any raid with less than 2 defilers can use another one.

The defiler in the MT group generally parses #1 on heals and the defiler out of MT group is usually busy debuffing non-stop.  On multiple mob encounters, the ability to debuff everythign in sight is devastating.  On mobs with large AEs, we can help ward a second group and furthemore we can throw 5 portents on HP-[Removed for Content] classes and keep them alive.  Portent is a buff that stacks with all other buffs and gives awesome HP.  Also, on mobs that AE, both Defiler's pets generally outparse the raid's secondary cleric (on heals). 

But honestly, I think a major benefit of having a second defiler on a raid is that we can still be 100% useful without being a healer.  We have enough debuffs to basically spend our lives debuffing.  Our superb power regeneration helps keep this up. 

The aforementioned power regen also helps with those mobs where someone needs to spam cures. 

So to answer the question:  A raid guilds needs enuf defilers to have 2 on every raid. (imho)

Side note on Parsing:  A shaman's heailng parses should be taken with a grain of salt.  Since wards are the first thing that is used up, we always get max effect out of our wards while those that have better heals will only count if damage gets through the parse.  For example, on any given (epic) encounter, I (being out of MT group) can parse 1st or 2nd by simply spamming my single target Ward on Raid Tank.  If I don't do anything on the same fight, the tank still doesn't take any damage and I parse last.  So healing parses are not as concrete as DPS ones.

[Sokolov]

Well, that's just it.  There's a factor of exclusion with Healing parses, whereas DPS parses have no such factor.  Prior to Wards being parsed, I claimed that Shamans had the ability to "heal-block" other priests and was attacked, but this has held true in my experience.

[sostrows]

did a fun raid awhile back in SOTL and mobs were low greens.mobs never got past the defiler/mystic combo.  probably could did raid with 2 healers.generally, for easy mobs, shaman will dominate heal parsing.on boss mobs though, it takes a village