Disappointed in slow

[Cru]

It doesn't seem that combat abilities are affected in any way by slow. Unless I'm hallucinating.

 

In EQ1 shaman we're highly sought after by groups for their ability to slow mobs, which was critical when going up against hard hitting stuff. The difference between a slowed boss and an unslowed one was huge. There was strategy behind it as well. Knowing which bosses could be slowed, getting debuffs in QUICK so slow wouldn't get resisted, etc. It was cool.

 

In EQ2, slow is much less cool. Sure, the melee dmg a mob generates is less when it's slowed. But it's combat abilities are typically the big damage spike generator in an encounter. In the mid-20's, mobs will hit for 100-ish but crank out these nasty 350pt combat abilities, and crank them out with relative frequency. And since each mob's power pool is significant, my int/wis debuff and even chanter drains seem pretty much useless.

 

 I'm not looking to become overpowered. I really like the class so far. But I was hoping slow would play a bigger role in encounters than it does.

 

 

[Putka]

its called 'overbalanced' classes :smileyvery-happy:

 

i'm sort of disappointed with debuffs myself.. i guess. its truly hard to see any difference in mob DPS if he has 0 debuffs on him or with all 4 debuffs. really not gonna waste mana on them anymore.. i'll just be using my master1 fulginous sphere cause it also dots for over 600 noxious the rest of my power will be better spent on wards and heals.

[MadHatter23]

Yep, I agree Putka.  It seems the devs are so obsessed with balancing that all classes end up having very bland abilities.  Sure there isn't any advantage of one class over another but there isn't any interest in the differences either. 

 

All the classes need 1 uber ability that makes people go "Wow COOL!  What class gets that?!?!"  Eidolic Ward is ok, but still doesn't give me much fun.  Maybe we could get a decent slow as well? 

[Cru]

Pretty much every "hook" that made shaman so cool in EQ1 has been gimped. Weak slow, debuffs that do virtually nothing, no cannibalize, no pet, dots that are ok but nowhere near the god-like status of EQ1...but at least I can look like a rat.

 

 

[Reevanthara]

Ok, how many of you were there at EQ release?  I played in Phase 3 of beta, Phase 4 of beta and then release.  You know what?  Shaman's sucked HARD for a very long time.

 

Most of the abilities that defined the class, like the pet, came much later on.  Also, tell me how many of you are 39+?  I most certainly am not, and in EQ1 as a shaman my slows were decent at lower levels.  Just like they are here.  I see a noticable difference if I strap on all my debuffs, and I love the fact that I have stackable DoT spells that also debuff.

 

My favorite part is that I can handle main healer just as well as a cleric, which I never could have done in EQ.  So, yes, we did lose a few things.  But we gained others to compensate.

 

Comparing to EQ is not fair when you are comparing a level 25 character here to a level 65+ there...

[Eats]

actually i live by usen certain debuffs when im grouped theres a combo i use on every pull thats got double up arrows and ive found its saved me alot of power in the long run and made these mobs alot easier to kill .when mobs pulled i lead with ful globe lvl 24 dot that slows the mob i then follow with degenerous aura ( debuff that slows mob both of these stack and theres slows add up ) after wich i ward the tank and repeat the ful globe every time it drops. both the slowing effect and the bit of added dps help the group and ive found that ive never had power problems doing this. more often then not ive found my wards to last longer then if id just repeat chain cast wards on the tanks.

[Of_mice_and_men]

If slow became a necessity then the shaman class would be more desireable as the healer in a group.  To counter that reliance on the shaman they would have to nerf some other aspect of the shaman class (Healing in EQ1).  Stat debuffs are a different story but slow just isn't what it was in EQ1 nor should it be like that in EQ2.

 

I welcome SOE's stance on classes in EQ2.

[Twizz]

---

Of_mice_and_men wrote:

If slow became a necessity then the shaman class would be more desireable as the healer in a group.  To counter that reliance on the shaman they would have to nerf some other aspect of the shaman class (Healing in EQ1).  Stat debuffs are a different story but slow just isn't what it was in EQ1 nor should it be like that in EQ2.

 

I welcome SOE's stance on classes in EQ2.

---

Great post.

 

I'm not playing a shaman class myself, just browsing boards to see what different classes think about themselves.

 

This EQ1 comparison drives me crazy, I see it everywhere.

 

And now I will use Eq1 comparison as well since that is what people seem to understand...

 

I heard alot of whining from some shamans in EQ1 for their lack healing and disirability for groups. (Beastlords and chanters could slow just fine). Also many of the dots wasn't worth it. Everyone wanted clerics for gorups, except some enlightened people who realized you could do many things without cleric and enchanter. (Did most grouping with druid, shaman, pali, beastlord, enchanter, warrior, and worked better togehter then any other gorups I've had). I played a druid and had to prove myself in every pickup group. Usually took an hour then someone said "wow this works great" and if something went wrong it was always blamed due to lack of cleric.

 

You could do most things without a cleric, problem was that many refused to try anything without one.

 

Now back to EQ2...

 

Is this where you want things to be. 2 or 4 very disired classes that most people think you couldn't live without?

 

Shamans are by many people considered the best healers in Eq2 right now, even though no class seem to be prefferred over anohter yet...

 

Face it, the shaman classes are primary healers now, nothing else. The rest is just utility spells that may be class defining.

 

Sorry if I upset anyone by writing this but EQ2 is a new game, so please stop comparing it with older games taht doesn't even have the same classes. I see the same in other forums, almost every class is omparing themselves with EQ1 classes, especially guardians.

 

I had no trouble getting groups in EQ1 as a druid allthough I had to convince people I could heal I hope that no class will have to do this in EQ2...

 

[DCpunk]

---

Crumm wrote:

It doesn't seem that combat abilities are affected in any way by slow. Unless I'm hallucinating.

 

In EQ1 shaman we're highly sought after by groups for their ability to slow mobs, which was critical when going up against hard hitting stuff. The difference between a slowed boss and an unslowed one was huge. There was strategy behind it as well. Knowing which bosses could be slowed, getting debuffs in QUICK so slow wouldn't get resisted, etc. It was cool.

 

In EQ2, slow is much less cool. Sure, the melee dmg a mob generates is less when it's slowed. But it's combat abilities are typically the big damage spike generator in an encounter. In the mid-20's, mobs will hit for 100-ish but crank out these nasty 350pt combat abilities, and crank them out with relative frequency. And since each mob's power pool is significant, my int/wis debuff and even chanter drains seem pretty much useless.

 

 I'm not looking to become overpowered. I really like the class so far. But I was hoping slow would play a bigger role in encounters than it does.

 

 

---

Shaman's uber slow in EQ1 ruined the class and eventually got them phased out of the game almost completely.  Their heals were much lower than other priests because of it, and they were completely built towards the long fight.  Since short fights against high resist mobs became the norm, the shaman could no longer be effective in anything past mid-level PoP encounters.

 

Leave slow exactly the way it is, please.

[Neothe]

The slow may not be super, but having all the debuffs on a mob keeps their hits smaller. I have seen a mob that would normally do 500+ with abilities drop down to 300 or so damage making a healer much more mana efficient.

[Brael]

I think you guys are misguided.  How many of you actually play a tank?  Well I do and slow rules.  I think slow + wards need a *little* bit of tweaking, but not a complete overhaul like you are suggesting.  Contrary to what you might think the priest classes are pretty balanced, at least through the mid 20s.  Perhaps something magical happens at lvl 30 but that doesn't seem to be the issue here.

 

Bloodthirster

24 Guardian

[Hellraiser4]

i have to disagree that shamans are the best primary healers right now, WE ARE NOT, WE SUCK AT HEALING COMPARED to druids and clerics.

Other thing, i am very happy and impressed with the balancing jobs on shamans as of now, our slows do help, and where we may not notice it, the tank sure does.  Also, this game does NOT need to be compared to eq1, it is in no way shape or form the same, or similar in any way, it does not need to be compared.  If you will remember in eq1 however there were lots of balancing issues, and when sony balanced it out, people just got [Removed for Content] off.  People are always going to be [Removed for Content] off, but, as far as the shaman balancing goes, the only thing i would like is an increased drop rate for our adepts (i have seen one, that is all, ever) and fix countenance line of spells =p, i want to be a flaming ogre of death, not a human.

[oldsham]

---

Hellraiser433 wrote:

i have to disagree that shamans are the best primary healers right now, WE ARE NOT, WE SUCK AT HEALING COMPARED to druids and clerics.

---

Its called Ward ... look, into it.

[AstralDrea]

ward indeed. who says who suck compared to druids or clerics. tanks love me in a group.

[Viim]

mages love you too.  We get adds in the middle of a fight.  I'm throwing my single target mez (rant for another time) as fast as I can, but a rogue runs up to me and backstabs me for... 13 dmg?  Bless you wonderful defilers and your beautiful wards.  The only thing more pathetic than my armor class is my hitpoints.  Sure druids got nice regen spells, but it's the wards us robe monkeys love.  I die in one to two hits when fighting group mobs and there's not a regen in the game that can keep me up for another hit, but your wards sure can. 

[Crados]

Unfortunately once you get high 20s wards are becoming more and more useless though. Best healers in the game we are not in a healing ability for mana expenditure no way. Until they beef up wards my adept 1 ward is dropping in 2 hits at lvl 28.  It can buy you a turn or two to get a heal off and for that I do like it but it peaks as a useful spell at about lvl 20 until they fix it.

 

That said and back on topic I'm really liking slow. I only have Degen apprentice III right now and with the lvl 35 double arrow mobs we were fighting last night my group would nearly die ( I was the only healer) if I didn't get slow to stick. Comparing that to the battles where there was no resist and I got it to stick right away we were laughing.  I find slow does still matter and revulsion is a great debuff too. I think you might need to have it on the kind of mobs that tear through tanks to really appreciate it but I so far haven't notice slow sucking or anything.

[Sau]

There are a couple of problems that I see with our slow. The first problem I see is that it is 10% for all our slow spells ( level 42 so far) except for the level 10 slow spell. Now this just seems strange to me that our level 10 spell is the slow spell with highest slow ( yes I know the others decrease str too ). Then I also would like to see some increace when upgrading from app1 to

adept 1. as it is now, the only upgrade there come is the debuff of the stats no upgrade in slow. I would also like a bit more than 10%, The reason I choosed to be a defiler was because of our ability to avoid taken any damage( i.e. wards, slows, debuff) so I really would be glad if our slow spells played a bit bigger role in our way of healing. As it is right now, it is hardly worth casting a 10% slow if chances of it getting resisted is quite big.

 

Another way to make the slow more effective would be to let it impact on casting time too(aleast for fighter mobs). Because as it is right now, a lot of the damage comes from combat arts, this also includes the damage mobs are giving. So a slow that only slows the normal hitting is really that important if the mobs mainly damage through special attacks.

[argsix]

---

Sault wrote:

There are a couple of problems that I see with our slow. The first problem I see is that it is 10% for all our slow spells ( level 42 so far) except for the level 10 slow spell. Now this just seems strange to me that our level 10 spell is the slow spell with highest slow ( yes I know the others decrease str too ). Then I also would like to see some increace when upgrading from app1 to

adept 1. as it is now, the only upgrade there come is the debuff of the stats no upgrade in slow. I would also like a bit more than 10%, The reason I choosed to be a defiler was because of our ability to avoid taken any damage( i.e. wards, slows, debuff) so I really would be glad if our slow spells played a bit bigger role in our way of healing. As it is right now, it is hardly worth casting a 10% slow if chances of it getting resisted is quite big.

Another way to make the slow more effective would be to let it impact on casting time too(aleast for fighter mobs). Because as it is right now, a lot of the damage comes from combat arts, this also includes the damage mobs are giving. So a slow that only slows the normal hitting is really that important if the mobs mainly damage through special attacks.

---

I think impacting the casting time would be too powerfull... longer casting spells = easier to interupt. Better would be to have slows also target recast time. Same effect, but no boost to interupt chance.

[Di0Xi]

Well strength debuffs at early levels can be very effective at reducing damage, since 100 strength is a 25% bonus to a mob in damage, so if you can cut into that and the mob is not over 100 strength to begin with that can be very significant. However, when/if mobs begin to get more than 100 strength the debuff begins to mean a lot less even though it itself increases in number because of the strength changes.Anyway my point is that, sure our slows may be dissapointing, but thats not all to consider. I hate all the EQ1 comparisons too.

[Geohi]

Okay clarrisa, lets put this in perspective for you. You're an assassin, right? So says your little siggy right there, so I'm going to go by that.I'm sure when you rolled your assassin, you had to have been looking at something. You wanted to damage, and be a stealthy mother-fer just like Rogues were in eq1. Great, cool! So lets just imagine that you roll up into your 30s 40s and 50s and suddnely realize, you can't do much damage at all! Your core damage spells are almost useless. Infact, the purpose of your class has totally flopped and isnt what the class description says at all! You'd be mad, wouldn't you?When i rolled my Defiler, i was looking at shamans in eq1 adn the class description. I, and i thinhk every player that rolled a Defiler, expected to be the master of debuffs. And at the core of debuffs comes Slow. Slow IS debuffs. I rolled my character over my druid because i was tired of constantly just healing and that being it, i wanted to do something else, and healing be my side deal. That was not at ALL what i got. I got broken wards, useless slows, mediocre debuffs (and mediocre is generous, considering the new stamina change), and good heals. GOOD HEALS! Exactly what i didnt want. I mean, of course i wanted to heal, its why i chose Priest. But DEFILER and the class description lead me to believe i wouldn't just be a [Removed for Content]-tastic healer.Geohin Geowolf, 49 Defiler.

[Aelojia]

Your mistake was thinking a shaman in eq2 would be similar to a shaman in eq1.A shaman in eq2 is a priest, and therefore is a healer at its core. We do get good debuffs, but they are not the core function of our class.The core function, of course, is keeping a group alive.Slow is no longer the core of debuff, in fact slow is probably the least important of our debuffs.Debuffing str cuts mob damage from melee and specials, where slow only affects melee damage.Loathsome Seal is another great debuff because it lowers defensive skill, increasing our groups melee damage considerably.Also don't forget about our resist-debuffs, Aphotic Corruption and Ruinous Imprecation will improve caster dps considerably.So you can choose your debuffs keeping the current group make-up in mind.Also the new stamina buffs work wonders in speeding up fights.Wards need to be looked at, since they are not as effective as reactives or regens. Since wards are such an important part of the way we heal, our class is a bit behind in keeping a group alive in comparison to druids and clerics.Once wards are fixed I think we will be the healer of choice for all xp groups, but i might be a bit biased =)