Question for Devs about Hex dolls and slows.

kind4 · 03-31-2005, 04:03 AM

I dont normally like to come complain on these forums and I know the chance of a dev acually reading it and responding is Minute but I thought I would post this anyway in the hopes that I have made a mistake somewhere.

Someone just linked a T4 common Hex doll in /gu and I looked at one for the first time. (Hehe I would have looked sooner but they conveinently left wisdom off of them but thats a different post) I noticed that the castable effect is a 22% - 26% slow on an 8 second cast time. I almost choked and I didnt take the time to go examine a T5 rare doll so I have to assume they are even stronger.

I am a 45 Mystic. My Adept 1 single target slow is 15%. My group slow is 11%. Mourning soul is somewhere around 35%.

I guess my question is am I missing something? Can any teir 4 player get a great +9 (agi, int, str, sta) for 5 gold that casts a powerless slow which is approximately twice as strong as a lvl 45 Mystic? Granted mourning soul is slightly stronger but roots caster, and has a minute reuse time AFTER the slow wears off.

Someone please point out my mistake here.

Toxin 45 Mystic

thedu · 03-31-2005, 04:15 AM

Yeah I saw the HEX dolls too, but how many charges do they have?

Itachi53 · 03-31-2005, 05:07 AM

All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges

Mystiq · 03-31-2005, 05:37 AM

My monk has a couple of these t5 hex dolls. The cast time on the slow is a long 8 seconds, so I usually pull with it. It seems to have a large chance of being resisted on mobs one or more levels higher than the caster, larger than I'd say haze has. I do find it strange that anyone out there can get their hands on an item that seems to have a significant effect, but I don't really feel threatened by it. Haven't done any parses or anything, but I used the doll a few times while tanking on the Monk, and didn't notice any real decrease in damage or hit ratio when the mob was debuffed with it.

thedu · 03-31-2005, 05:39 AM

Itachi53 wrote:All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges

I think this is the first time in this game I've had an Ellen Feiss momemt...:smileysad:

Itachi53 · 03-31-2005, 06:36 AM

I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me.

Kalam · 03-31-2005, 06:46 AM

Itachi53 wrote:
I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me.

I tend to agree. Both melee haste items and conversely melee slow effects have a rather small impact in EQ2, as most player and NPC damage comes from Combat Arts. Of course haste and slow does help, but their benefits are diluted by this well known fact. The real strength of our Haze line comes from the offsensive skill debuffs, not reducing how often a target swings. However, it does seem silly that a Mystic should go out and get a T4 Hex Doll to cast the best possible slow %, regardless of the cast time.

thedu · 03-31-2005, 06:49 AM

Itachi53 wrote:I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me.

http://www.ellenfeiss.net/ It's the middle of the original Mac Ad that i'm feeling...'like eh' :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by thedump on 03-30-2005 05:49 PM

BigDa · 03-31-2005, 04:48 PM

It's ok - I'm sure there will be items along for 5g that reproduce other classes abilities.

I'm looking forward to the unlimited charge wiz reproducer: Does 500 damage every 8 seconds

Or the tank one? Doubles mitigation and melee damage

Or the scout one? Give tracking ability or Escape

Sure, this doesn't fully reproduce the best tool in our box, but it [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well makes me angry. Just one more reason to not really need a mystic in some situations. Great.

"Hey, you want a mystic for your group?"

"Nah, we have a healer"

"Yeah, but I can slow and stuff"

"Yeah, but we all just bought Hex Dolls. See ya"

Message Edited by BigDave on 03-31-2005 03:52 AM

BigDa · 03-31-2005, 04:50 PM

Itachi53 wrote:
All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges

That's just ridiculous. No charges?! Sheesh

FelixDomesticus · 03-31-2005, 07:14 PM

BigDave wrote:

Itachi53 wrote:
All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges

That's just ridiculous. No charges?! Sheesh

Does it need charges? I read one player complaining that it resists so much that he had severe problems to get it land on any mob at all. If that is true for hex doll resists then I do not mind if they are unlimited.

Banditman · 03-31-2005, 07:27 PM

I'm sure the reason that players trying to use these hex dolls are having so many problems is that these are MELEE players we see using them. Their Disruption skill will be next to nothing, making it extremely difficult for them to land anything.

I am slightly insulted that the Devs would "give away" one of our spells like that, but it's just another reason that DEBUFFING SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED PART OF BALANCE.

stoutbrewdrink · 03-31-2005, 08:10 PM

hahaha ive never actually thought about the dolls that way. Doesnt really matter tho im a 50 shaman and ALOT of the mobs we kill in raids i cant cast slow on it SMILEY

. soo basically i got my avatar nerfed and all i got is a few good buffs and crappy wards (yes i even have master 1 aegis and umbral ritual) haha i love my shaman class ... thats why ive been powerlvling my alt..

Ariaya · 03-31-2005, 10:18 PM

A friend of mine brought these dolls to use when I'm not there to slow for him .. and I was happy with his comments.

According to him (I have not tested them myself) the 20-some% slow is a MOVEMENT slow .. aka snare.

The dolls that slow attack speed only do 6 - 8%.

Still not thrilled with a doll having slow but I can handle 8% better than 26%

disru · 03-31-2005, 11:01 PM

I don't really mind even if they did slow attack speed. As other people have said, the offensive debuffs are far superior to the slow aspect. and /agree bandit, lets just use this as another point as to why debuffs should not factor into healing ability.

Vinu · 04-01-2005, 05:47 AM

That slow is only a Movement Slow...

There is another hex doll that does attack speed slow but it is only 6-8% I believe

BigDa · 04-01-2005, 01:36 PM

Vinu wrote:

That slow is only a Movement Slow...

There is another hex doll that does attack speed slow but it is only 6-8% I believe

Ok, I'm slowly calming down... SMILEY

CrazyM · 04-05-2005, 01:23 AM

Actually there are the new imbued wands that provide a hefty nuke at about 8 sec cast. There are fire and ice based versions I've seen and at 40 they hit for around 350+. Unlimited charges too. Quite nice if you ask me for no mana.

Banditman · 04-05-2005, 05:05 PM

Completely USELESS unless when soloing, and in a group you can easily do more DPS with your standard spells.

Mana free makes it "interesting" but not worth the current asking price.

03-31-2005, 05:07 AM	#3
Itachi53 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges __________________ Koju 45 Mystic Antonia Bayle

03-31-2005, 05:37 AM	#4
Mystiq General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 698	My monk has a couple of these t5 hex dolls. The cast time on the slow is a long 8 seconds, so I usually pull with it. It seems to have a large chance of being resisted on mobs one or more levels higher than the caster, larger than I'd say haze has. I do find it strange that anyone out there can get their hands on an item that seems to have a significant effect, but I don't really feel threatened by it. Haven't done any parses or anything, but I used the doll a few times while tanking on the Monk, and didn't notice any real decrease in damage or hit ratio when the mob was debuffed with it. __________________

03-31-2005, 06:36 AM	#6
Itachi53 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me. __________________ Koju 45 Mystic Antonia Bayle

03-31-2005, 06:46 AM	#7
Kalam Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 189	Itachi53 wrote: I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me. I tend to agree. Both melee haste items and conversely melee slow effects have a rather small impact in EQ2, as most player and NPC damage comes from Combat Arts. Of course haste and slow does help, but their benefits are diluted by this well known fact. The real strength of our Haze line comes from the offsensive skill debuffs, not reducing how often a target swings. However, it does seem silly that a Mystic should go out and get a T4 Hex Doll to cast the best possible slow %, regardless of the cast time. __________________ Yahelas - Mystic Crushbone Server Inner Sanctum

03-31-2005, 04:50 PM	#10
BigDa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 227	Itachi53 wrote: All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges That's just ridiculous. No charges?! Sheesh

03-31-2005, 04:03 AM	#1
kind4 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	I dont normally like to come complain on these forums and I know the chance of a dev acually reading it and responding is Minute but I thought I would post this anyway in the hopes that I have made a mistake somewhere. Someone just linked a T4 common Hex doll in /gu and I looked at one for the first time. (Hehe I would have looked sooner but they conveinently left wisdom off of them but thats a different post) I noticed that the castable effect is a 22% - 26% slow on an 8 second cast time. I almost choked and I didnt take the time to go examine a T5 rare doll so I have to assume they are even stronger. I am a 45 Mystic. My Adept 1 single target slow is 15%. My group slow is 11%. Mourning soul is somewhere around 35%. I guess my question is am I missing something? Can any teir 4 player get a great +9 (agi, int, str, sta) for 5 gold that casts a powerless slow which is approximately twice as strong as a lvl 45 Mystic? Granted mourning soul is slightly stronger but roots caster, and has a minute reuse time AFTER the slow wears off. Someone please point out my mistake here. Toxin 45 Mystic

03-31-2005, 04:15 AM	#2
thedu General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 675	Yeah I saw the HEX dolls too, but how many charges do they have?

03-31-2005, 05:39 AM	#5
thedu General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 675	Itachi53 wrote:All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges I think this is the first time in this game I've had an Ellen Feiss momemt...:smileysad:

03-31-2005, 06:49 AM	#8
thedu General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 675	Itachi53 wrote:I'll be honest, I have no idea who that is. Anyway, the dolls do not feature the offensive level debuffing aspect of our slows do they? because IMO that is the true power behind our slows, the slow % is irrelevant to me. http://www.ellenfeiss.net/ It's the middle of the original Mac Ad that i'm feeling...'like eh' :smileyvery-happy: Message Edited by thedump on 03-30-2005 05:49 PM

03-31-2005, 04:48 PM	#9
BigDa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 227	It's ok - I'm sure there will be items along for 5g that reproduce other classes abilities. I'm looking forward to the unlimited charge wiz reproducer: Does 500 damage every 8 seconds Or the tank one? Doubles mitigation and melee damage Or the scout one? Give tracking ability or Escape Sure, this doesn't fully reproduce the best tool in our box, but it [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well makes me angry. Just one more reason to not really need a mystic in some situations. Great. "Hey, you want a mystic for your group?" "Nah, we have a healer" "Yeah, but I can slow and stuff" "Yeah, but we all just bought Hex Dolls. See ya" Message Edited by BigDave on 03-31-2005 03:52 AM

03-31-2005, 07:14 PM	#11
FelixDomesticus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 289	BigDave wrote: Itachi53 wrote: All of the hex dolls I have seen are unlimited charges That's just ridiculous. No charges?! Sheesh Does it need charges? I read one player complaining that it resists so much that he had severe problems to get it land on any mob at all. If that is true for hex doll resists then I do not mind if they are unlimited. __________________ =========================================== If your parents did not have a child, it is unlikely that you will have one either

03-31-2005, 07:27 PM	#12
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	I'm sure the reason that players trying to use these hex dolls are having so many problems is that these are MELEE players we see using them. Their Disruption skill will be next to nothing, making it extremely difficult for them to land anything. I am slightly insulted that the Devs would "give away" one of our spells like that, but it's just another reason that DEBUFFING SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED PART OF BALANCE. __________________

03-31-2005, 08:10 PM	#13
stoutbrewdrink Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	hahaha ive never actually thought about the dolls that way. Doesnt really matter tho im a 50 shaman and ALOT of the mobs we kill in raids i cant cast slow on it . soo basically i got my avatar nerfed and all i got is a few good buffs and crappy wards (yes i even have master 1 aegis and umbral ritual) haha i love my shaman class ... thats why ive been powerlvling my alt..

03-31-2005, 10:18 PM	#14
Ariaya Tester Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 84	A friend of mine brought these dolls to use when I'm not there to slow for him .. and I was happy with his comments. According to him (I have not tested them myself) the 20-some% slow is a MOVEMENT slow .. aka snare. The dolls that slow attack speed only do 6 - 8%. Still not thrilled with a doll having slow but I can handle 8% better than 26% __________________ ~ Ariaya, Mystic and Provisioner of Unrest

03-31-2005, 11:01 PM	#15
disru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 285	I don't really mind even if they did slow attack speed. As other people have said, the offensive debuffs are far superior to the slow aspect. and /agree bandit, lets just use this as another point as to why debuffs should not factor into healing ability. __________________ Please go voice your disdain for Mystic nerfage here!

04-01-2005, 05:47 AM	#16
Vinu Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5	That slow is only a Movement Slow... There is another hex doll that does attack speed slow but it is only 6-8% I believe

04-01-2005, 01:36 PM	#17
BigDa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 227	Vinu wrote: That slow is only a Movement Slow... There is another hex doll that does attack speed slow but it is only 6-8% I believe Ok, I'm slowly calming down...

04-05-2005, 01:23 AM	#18
CrazyM Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	Actually there are the new imbued wands that provide a hefty nuke at about 8 sec cast. There are fire and ice based versions I've seen and at 40 they hit for around 350+. Unlimited charges too. Quite nice if you ask me for no mana.

04-05-2005, 05:05 PM	#19
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Completely USELESS unless when soloing, and in a group you can easily do more DPS with your standard spells. Mana free makes it "interesting" but not worth the current asking price. __________________