Shamen are becoming rare. Who wants to play a gimped class.

climbhi · 03-03-2005, 01:57 AM

On the Butcherblock server Mystics and Defilers are becomes increasingly rare, Each time I zone I do a /who and find that there are at times notShamans or just 1 or two out of 65+. I always see many Druids and Clerics. THough I still see a few Shamans in the Newbee zones; I guess they have to learn the hard way.

I have spoken with many Shaman who state that they are very dicouraged with the class but do not have the time to reroll another character and are hoping that the class will be fixed. A common compliant that I hear is that Shamans have a difficult time getting a group and when they are LFG it is impossible for them to solo because Shamans DPS is too low but the fight can take awhile do to slows and heals.

My main was a 30 Mystic but now I exclusively play a Coercer and only play the Mystic when the group I am in loses a healer, so I log on the Mystic until we can find another healer.

Even the Shaman boards are becoming less and less popular when compared to other classes. Look at the number of threads and responses. All Shamen do is complain about how gimped they are and how wards are ineffective and how their debuffs are ineffective against white or higher mobs. Who cares that you can slow a blue or green mob.

I am getting the impression that Mystics are Defilers are marching out the door (screen) with their feet.

The way things are going SOE will not need to fix the Shaman class because no one will be playing one or will have stopped playing EQ2.

FelixDomesticus · 03-03-2005, 11:11 AM

Well, for me only the hope that they fix mystics keeps me playing it. If (when) I lose that hope I will park my mystic and play alts or quit game totally as I did for Eq1 because they did not fix shaman bugs in it at all.Question is how many mystics will cancel subscription and uninstall instead of playing alts...

Itachi53 · 03-03-2005, 02:02 PM

I , for one, will definately be waiting for some kind of response, on Wards specifically ,before taking any kind of action. If they return with the dreaded "working as intended" on the current state of wards, I'll definately cut my eq2 losses and move on to a new game.

Banditman · 03-03-2005, 07:12 PM

One trick I have learned for solo'ing at higher levels . . .

Seek out "creatures of shadow". Shadowmen in Nek Forest, Nightbloods in EL.

Against these mobs our disease DoT's do significantly more damage than they do against a normal foe. I can effectively solo these types mobs because my DPS is about 35% higher than against a normal mob.

Specteral · 03-03-2005, 07:17 PM

Banditman wrote:
One trick I have learned for solo'ing at higher levels . . .

Seek out "creatures of shadow". Shadowmen in Nek Forest, Nightbloods in EL.

Against these mobs our disease DoT's do significantly more damage than they do against a normal foe. I can effectively solo these types mobs because my DPS is about 35% higher than against a normal mob.

Great tip! I'm currently level 28 (29 shortly), any reccomendations on a list of shadow creatures or something I should be going after for the damage increase?Anyway, I split my time between my Mystic main and a couple alts, but I am starting to fear that by about 35 I'll be swapping to my assassin or bezerker or something, I'm to the point where I fear becoming the Primary Healer in groups. lol

hanna0776 · 03-03-2005, 07:18 PM

I agree with Itachi53Not that anyone at SoE cares,

Spag · 03-03-2005, 08:49 PM

I play on butcherblock, and I have rolled out my mystic for about 30 minutes the other day. I had not used it in weeks. I only did so, because a friend was in desperate need of a healer, and just had to finish a quest. Afterwards, I packed my mystic back up and logged back into my swashie. I have been working on getting adept3 for all my main heals and wards. Once I do, I might roll em back out and see how I do, but until then I will be on my swashie or my warlock.

Bolr · 03-03-2005, 09:41 PM

I play a mystic on Butcherblock, and the problems with mystics are insignificant to me when I play -- although I'm never LFG, having a fairly tight-knit and active guild, and a wife that plays a zerker. SMILEY

Long-term, I'm fairly confident that they'll get the mystic "right". Look at all the "xxx class sucks, then rocks, then sucks, then rocks" changes that happened in EQ1.Until then, I still have fun playing my mystic. When I stop having fun, or start feeling inadequate (or hit level 50 and have all my quests done), there's always another character slot.

Xalibur · 03-03-2005, 09:48 PM

i parked my mystic and rerolled too...now i have fun again

most important is the feeling, as mystic i always felt gimped and less worth than other classes (getting outhealed even by paladins is frustrating..)

Spag · 03-03-2005, 10:02 PM

I agree wholeheartedly. My mystic is on a shelf, I enjoy my swashie, and my warlock. I have also started a Warrior, and currently working on the betrayal quest. Its amazing the things I can do with him. I can solo some Blue ^^ at this point. I am sure that won't last but its nice to use to level up.

Ariochdm1 · 03-03-2005, 10:42 PM

I too have been feeling less and less of an urge to play my mystic. I dont really want to roll up a new character and I have been waiting for quite a while now to hear from the developers as to whether or not our wards are working as intended. The silence from them on that issue has been deafening. Being considered a backup healer and not being able to perform on par with a Druid or Cleric in terms of healing is difficult to deal with. I dont want the Mystic to be uber I just want a balancing so that we can perform on equal footing with the other healers. The solution might be an adjustment to our wards and having the dev's take another look at our heals (possibly the heals from the other classes as well). In any event once I get confirmation that we are gimped as intended or feel that there is no love coming I will likely give up and move on to other things besides EQ. I really dont want to as I do enjoy the game overall but it is getting harder for me to log in when I am unable to perform the main role of a healer in the group. :smileysad:

Spag · 03-03-2005, 11:04 PM

I have finally decided. I am going to delete my warrior (did not really enjoy him anyway), and roll one of the other priest classes. If I like it better than my mystic, I may free up that spot as well.

Muad`D · 03-04-2005, 12:37 AM

About halfway to 44 now and am loving my mystic as much as ever. I honestly just do not see the gimpness that everyone is talking about. I solo heal in CT with a group of 41-45 and have been the solo healer for my group since SH in the mid 20's, Varsoons in the late 20's, RE in the 30's, RV in the late 30's, now CT/EF/Lavastorm. I am in no way discounting the complaints that the people on these boards bring up, nor am I trying to make myself look cool. I simply do not relate the 95% of the threads on these boards because for reasons beyond my comprehension, I do not encounter the problems (i.e. wards being worthless, debuffs not mattering, etc. etc.) that apparently every other shaman is encountering that has made the game unplayable to them.

Wolfherz · 03-04-2005, 01:01 AM

Muad`Dib wrote:

About halfway to 44 now and am loving my mystic as much as ever. I honestly just do not see the gimpness that everyone is talking about. I solo heal in CT with a group of 41-45 and have been the solo healer for my group since SH in the mid 20's, Varsoons in the late 20's, RE in the 30's, RV in the late 30's, now CT/EF/Lavastorm. I am in no way discounting the complaints that the people on these boards bring up, nor am I trying to make myself look cool. I simply do not relate the 95% of the threads on these boards because for reasons beyond my comprehension, I do not encounter the problems (i.e. wards being worthless, debuffs not mattering, etc. etc.) that apparently every other shaman is encountering that has made the game unplayable to them.

Well said. Mystic 45 here and we feel exactly the same way. Sure wards could be better but overall. We duo whites, heroic solo and groups, we trio yellows and so forth.

Banditman · 03-04-2005, 01:41 AM

Solo healing CT in the early 40's is no great accomplishment. I can do that. Not because my Mystic has the tools, but because my tank simply doesn't take much damage. A 42 Guard in CT can pretty much tank anything there and not take damage at a rate exceeding my power to heal.

Note that I said heal. Not Ward.

I honestly expected a lot more firepower in the enemies in CT. Venekor and his guards being notable exceptions.

Khilendel · 03-04-2005, 02:01 AM

Ok first of all, you guys smoke crack if you think mystic is a gimpy class.

I am a level 45 mystic on Everfrost.

I can slow mobs 65%

Debuff Str/Sta of mobs by 41

Delevel there attack magic by 7 levels, and melee skills by 5.

Do 3500pts in wards

And EASILY pull 50-80dps

Please, play the high end game before u start calling your class gimpy.

-Khil

Wolfherz · 03-04-2005, 02:06 AM

Banditman wrote:

Solo healing CT in the early 40's is no great accomplishment. I can do that. Not because my Mystic has the tools, but because my tank simply doesn't take much damage. A 42 Guard in CT can pretty much tank anything there and not take damage at a rate exceeding my power to heal.

Note that I said heal. Not Ward.

I honestly expected a lot more firepower in the enemies in CT. Venekor and his guards being notable exceptions.

Where must someone hunt at that level to achieve an accomplishment in your eyes ?

disru · 03-04-2005, 02:24 AM

Khilendel84 wrote:
Ok first of all, you guys smoke crack if you think mystic is a gimpy class.

I am a level 45 mystic on Everfrost.

I can slow mobs 65%

Debuff Str/Sta of mobs by 41

Delevel there attack magic by 7 levels, and melee skills by 5.

Do 3500pts in wards

And EASILY pull 50-80dps

Please, play the high end game before u start calling your class gimpy.

-Khil

I can slow mobs 65%:Slows can never exceed 35%, Slows do not stack in any way.Debuff Str/STa....:As of right now you can not debuff stamina at all, they removed the -sta effect from all debuffs about 2 months ago.Delevel there attack....:Try Subjagation and Disruption by ~4 levels and crushing/piercing/slashing by ~3And EASILY pull 50-80dps:LOL, logs please.Please, play the high end game before....:Please make sure that you know what you're talking about before trying to tell people who have been studying and parsing the spells and skills for months anything.You have just proven that being "high level" does not necessarily mean you know what you're talking about.You have totally ruined any credibility toward your future posts.

Message Edited by disrupt on 03-03-2005 01:37 PM

ChristopherK · 03-04-2005, 02:57 AM

disrupt wrote:

And EASILY pull 50-80dps:
LOL, logs please.

Okay, you can knock him on all the other stuff, but 50 - 80dps is doable. The other day in the obelisk of lost I was pulling 90dps as secondary healer (shadow stuff in there). My average DPS as secondary healer in even con to +4 zones is in the 40 - 60 range. I normanly out DPS lazy players SMILEY

disru · 03-04-2005, 03:04 AM

I will concede on that dps range for beings of shadow SMILEY

I have doubts about reaching a dps over 60ish on other stuff without chain dot/nuking.

Message Edited by disrupt on 03-03-2005 02:06 PM

Wolfherz · 03-04-2005, 03:08 AM

ChristopherKee wrote:

disrupt wrote:

And EASILY pull 50-80dps:
LOL, logs please.

Okay, you can knock him on all the other stuff, but 50 - 80dps is doable. The other day in the obelisk of lost I was pulling 90dps as secondary healer (shadow stuff in there). My average DPS as secondary healer in even con to +4 zones is in the 40 - 60 range. I normanly out DPS lazy players

I concur. Melee all the time. Make your HOs count (potential 200+ extra damage every 5 sec). 40-60 is very doable.

WazzaTU · 03-04-2005, 03:39 AM

I agree 100% with the poster who said they have trouble relating to most of the posts on this board (hence this being the first post). I would be jumping for joy if they added AC mitigation to wards, I mean who wouldn't, but I have never felt gimped or weak or whatever, and I have never, ever, ever had problems solo healing since I first tried it out around level 33 in RV. As a matter of fact, ever since then I've been under the impression that having 2 healers in a pure exp group is a complete waste of time. I also don't understand what the poster who called solo healing at level 42 in CT "no great accomplishment" or whatever, seeing how there are only two "main" zones for xp that level, CT and PF. The first time I went to perma I was a solo healer, and it was at level 42, the only time I had any trouble whatsoever was on the level 50 giants, because slow did not always stick right away, and when it doesnt, the encounter gets considerably harder. (by level 43 when they no longer con red, this is no longer a problem.) As far as the low levels go, I can't comment. As I said before, I didnt even attempt to solo heal a group pre level 33, but as I recall, Clerics and Druids weren't doing it either. Now it has been quite a while since I xp'd in RE or those places, and *maybe* there are Clerics and Druids running around solo healing down there now all the time, maybe not, like I said, I don't know so I won't comment.I've read posts in here where people are saying things like "I get resisted 50-60% of the time" and crap like that, and really the only thing to do is to either call BS or just don't say anything, which is what I have always opted to do. Unfortunately, for every satisfied Mystic not saying anything, theres an unhappy one here posting (which, hey, if you are unhappy with the class and want to get some things tuned/fixed, more power to you, I have a lot of issues with a lot of spells, it just happens that Wards aren't one of them) but that doesnt make the class "gimped". It also seems like everyone who comes on this board and states that they are happy with their Mystic gets ran right up outta here, which sucks because most class boards have a broad range of various topics related to their class, while everytime I click on this board, I see pages and pages of "Mystics suck!" threads, just with different titles. It's all extremely annoying. Kudos to whoever the dude was that made that thread trying to consolidate all the gripes about broken spells into one thread. Maybe it will cut down on all the threads started simply to say "My Mystic is gimped".We CAN heal solo, and effectively, I do it every single night, and so do many others.Waza X47 MysticOasis

Spag · 03-04-2005, 04:34 AM

About the only thing I can say in our defense, is most of you that are in your high 30's or mid 40's went through the 20s a long time ago, well before they increased the amount of damage the 20's level mobs dish out, as well as increased the amount of HP they have. Mystics may be fine and balanced at 40+ I have no idea, but 20's level mystic is gimped in a big way. My adept3 spectral lasts one hit, maybe two. Due to other issues of passing on unmitigated damage after the ward expires, it makes wards not only useless, but a liability. So we are basically healing with one hand tied behind our backs. Now I can still do my job against a single ^^ mob. This is not too much problem, but I still burn alot of power. Any multiple mob group of even con in this level range is pretty dangerous if your only healer is a shaman class. We go our of power before the fight is over due to having to spam instant heals, that is if we can even keep up with it.

Sure you guys can sit back and disregard what i am saying, laugh to yourself and say that I simply dont know how to play. But mind you, our 20's are not as easy as your 20's were, its barely the same game it was in Dec, when you went through your 20's.

Like I said, tonight I am going to roll a druid and take a hard look at the difference between the two. Although I am sure many will find a way to disregard any and all of my findings simply because "back in their day" they did not have any problems.

Spag · 03-04-2005, 04:39 AM

Another thing I should note. I have a couple other characters in their 20's and have been in groups where a mystic is our only healer, and others where we have a templar, fury or warden. While the mystic is still able to get the job done, barring any adds or bouncing aggro, the other healers can handle it, throw in some DPS and still come out with more power. Adds, and bouncing aggro, no problem, they may have to cut out the DPS a bit, but they can handle healing more efficiently and therefore effectively have a larger power pool.

Like I said, I will let you all know what I find, that is if you care.

Wolfherz · 03-04-2005, 04:40 AM

Spagma wrote:

About the only thing I can say in our defense, is most of you that are in your high 30's or mid 40's went through the 20s a long time ago, well before they increased the amount of damage the 20's level mobs dish out, as well as increased the amount of HP they have. Mystics may be fine and balanced at 40+ I have no idea, but 20's level mystic is gimped in a big way. My adept3 spectral lasts one hit, maybe two. Due to other issues of passing on unmitigated damage after the ward expires, it makes wards not only useless, but a liability. So we are basically healing with one hand tied behind our backs. Now I can still do my job against a single ^^ mob. This is not too much problem, but I still burn alot of power. Any multiple mob group of even con in this level range is pretty dangerous if your only healer is a shaman class. We go our of power before the fight is over due to having to spam instant heals, that is if we can even keep up with it.

Sure you guys can sit back and disregard what i am saying, laugh to yourself and say that I simply dont know how to play. But mind you, our 20's are not as easy as your 20's were, its barely the same game it was in Dec, when you went through your 20's.

Like I said, tonight I am going to roll a druid and take a hard look at the difference between the two. Although I am sure many will find a way to disregard any and all of my findings simply because "back in their day" they did not have any problems.

Well, soon we have mentoring and we can test your theory. I suspect our opinion won't change. Most of the points you make to explain why the 20s are so difficult are true if not more so for the 40s.

Spag · 03-04-2005, 06:27 AM

That may be true, but you also have much more in your arsenal by that point, you can stack single target wards, and have more heals to choose from. Not to mention, group debuffs, and better slows. Again, I am only guessing at this as I am not up there yet. From what I know about our class I have 1 heal spell thats worth anything, and 1 single target ward. A slow that does not debuff, and a debuff that does not do much of anything. Each last about 50 seconds or so, and have to be reapplied 2-3 times throughout a fight. My mana pool is limited, and my most mana efficient direct heal uses about 1/5 of it.

WazzaTU · 03-04-2005, 12:37 PM

~double post

Message Edited by WazzaTU on 03-03-2005 11:46 PM

WazzaTU · 03-04-2005, 12:45 PM

.....You can't be serious.Ok, so I will completly disregard the fact that you are implying the 40's are easier than the 20's, and move forward. What level are you that you only have "1 heal spell that's worth anything?". There is no, I repeat no level in which you are a full blown Mystic that you only have 1 heal. I can't seem to find a list, but you should always have at least 1 fast heal for a lot of HP/Mana, and the slower one with the quicker recast, less mana uaage and less HP healed. Totemic Aid I think was the lowest. You should be alternating between them, using the slow one with the noxious cure attached as the main heal. If you already knew this, I apologize, but that statement makes 0 sense, the only time a heal becomes "useless" is when it is replaced by a better heal that uses the same timer. If you only have 1 single target ward, you'd have to be below level 26.6, which means you are using spectral ward, which was like level 12 or something. Come on man, that spell is very old at that point. Suck it up and level to 26.6 and get AW, which will stack on top of SW, and the efficency shoots way way up, not only do you have a brand new ward, but you can also use the old one on top of it.As far as slow effectiveness, it is all relative. KH is pretty much the same as HH, the latter just works on higher level mobs. And regarding your final statement...your most mana efficient heal uses 1/5 of your mana pool? There is either something very wrong with your mana pool, or that is not your most mana efficient heal. If you can only heal 5 times during the course of one fight, which is also assuming you don't cast anything else at all, I don't really know what to tell you, except that making a Druid will not fix that. I can only hope that the mistake you are making is that you are using the quick heal as your main form of healing, instead of using the slower heal with the noxious cure attached. If you aren't, and you are healing correctly, you need to get more mana from somewhere, somehow, and fast. Since you just become a true Mystic at level 20, of course it is going to take some time to get into the routine, but I refuse to believe that 20-30 are the hell levels, regardless of whatever SOE did to the mobs in that range. It may be hard (or next to impossible even) to solo heal a group at that level, I don't know, I never tried, but if it is, join a group with another healer, like you should be at that level anyhow. I seem to recall most of my groups in the 20's having 2 tanks as well. 2 healer groups become obsolete around the same time 2 tank groups do. That is just the way it is.Waza X47 MysticOasis

Message Edited by WazzaTU on 03-03-2005 11:51 PM

BigDa · 03-04-2005, 03:03 PM

WazzaTU wrote:
.....

You can't be serious.

Ok, so I will completly disregard the fact that you are implying the 40's are easier than the 20's, and move forward. What level are you that you only have "1 heal spell that's worth anything?". There is no, I repeat no level in which you are a full blown Mystic that you only have 1 heal. I can't seem to find a list, but you should always have at least 1 fast heal for a lot of HP/Mana, and the slower one with the quicker recast, less mana uaage and less HP healed. Totemic Aid I think was the lowest. You should be alternating between them, using the slow one with the noxious cure attached as the main heal. If you already knew this, I apologize, but that statement makes 0 sense, the only time a heal becomes "useless" is when it is replaced by a better heal that uses the same timer.

You are right in a way, though what the poster probably means is there is only one heal with a decent power to HP ratio - I haven't really checked, myself. Currently at level 42 I have 4 heals I can use one after the other. 2 fast and 2 slow - one, however (a slow one) has a much better power to HP ratio than the others.

If you only have 1 single target ward, you'd have to be below level 26.6, which means you are using spectral ward, which was like level 12 or something. Come on man, that spell is very old at that point. Suck it up and level to 26.6 and get AW, which will stack on top of SW, and the efficency shoots way way up, not only do you have a brand new ward, but you can also use the old one on top of it.

At level 42 I have 4 single and one group ward and I can stack all 5 on a target. However, because so much damage (specials, DoTs, spells, even some 'normal') leaks through ALL FIVE AT ONCE having more then one up is often pointless.

As far as slow effectiveness, it is all relative. KH is pretty much the same as HH, the latter just works on higher level mobs. And regarding your final statement...your most mana efficient heal uses 1/5 of your mana pool? There is either something very wrong with your mana pool, or that is not your most mana efficient heal. If you can only heal 5 times during the course of one fight, which is also assuming you don't cast anything else at all, I don't really know what to tell you, except that making a Druid will not fix that. I can only hope that the mistake you are making is that you are using the quick heal as your main form of healing, instead of using the slower heal with the noxious cure attached. If you aren't, and you are healing correctly, you need to get more mana from somewhere, somehow, and fast. Since you just become a true Mystic at level 20, of course it is going to take some time to get into the routine, but I refuse to believe that 20-30 are the hell levels, regardless of whatever SOE did to the mobs in that range. It may be hard (or next to impossible even) to solo heal a group at that level, I don't know, I never tried, but if it is, join a group with another healer, like you should be at that level anyhow. I seem to recall most of my groups in the 20's having 2 tanks as well. 2 healer groups become obsolete around the same time 2 tank groups do. That is just the way it is.

I'm not sure that 20-30 is worse than 30-40. IMHO healing for a group is difficult all the way along for mystics unless you have a chanter or another healer or a bard or something seriously augmenting things.

Waza X
47 Mystic
Oasis

It seems that when you near 50th level the mystic is pretty good. This has been a theme in lots of "stop moaning - mystics are awesome" posts. Good for you guys. I'm truly happy for you. Unfortunately, lots of us aren't just grinding to 50 to do raids and get uber-loot - some of us would like to enjoy the journey more.

Miric · 03-04-2005, 04:01 PM

I have a 21 fury and a 30 defiler, I love them both, i couldnt favor 1 over the other, i don't see the same probs with the ward's/debuffs stated here, infact when on my fury i sometimes wish i had my defiler's buffs.

Ya'll need to learn how to use HO's, not specifically in 4-6 peep groups cause it can get messy (but i find in 4-6 peep groups your issues with being solo healer isnt sush a burden as you should have enuff dps to finish most things off quicker than you really need to heal, so i figure most ppl's complaints about their debuffs/healing/wards are all about soloing and small groups with lil DPS) I duo alot with my zerker gf on my defiler, now all we pretty much do after ive warded her and debuffed the mob is combined HO's, saves so much power i can finish an encounter even 2-3 mob white encounters with 1/4 - 1/2 power pool left. Not only can you do massive damage together on combined HO's but with defiler/zerker (think it might be all fighter/all priest) combined HO's i can heal her for upto 750 which 80% of the time complete heals her that same effect adds a small HoT and a ward for a short time.

I dont believe that there isnt things that need to be fixed on mystic/defiler class but you need to learn how to play it to its best ability, ive never dreaded being solo healer, could mostly be due to i trust my tank. Tho I believe most of the time you are only as good as your tank, if your tank sucks no matter how fast your heals are you cant keep them alive.......that being said, when it all comes down to it, you need to choose ur battles that best suits your abilities.

03-03-2005, 11:11 AM	#2
FelixDomesticus Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 289	Well, for me only the hope that they fix mystics keeps me playing it. If (when) I lose that hope I will park my mystic and play alts or quit game totally as I did for Eq1 because they did not fix shaman bugs in it at all.Question is how many mystics will cancel subscription and uninstall instead of playing alts... __________________ =========================================== If your parents did not have a child, it is unlikely that you will have one either

03-03-2005, 02:02 PM	#3
Itachi53 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 47	I , for one, will definately be waiting for some kind of response, on Wards specifically ,before taking any kind of action. If they return with the dreaded "working as intended" on the current state of wards, I'll definately cut my eq2 losses and move on to a new game. __________________ Koju 45 Mystic Antonia Bayle

03-03-2005, 07:12 PM	#4
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	One trick I have learned for solo'ing at higher levels . . . Seek out "creatures of shadow". Shadowmen in Nek Forest, Nightbloods in EL. Against these mobs our disease DoT's do significantly more damage than they do against a normal foe. I can effectively solo these types mobs because my DPS is about 35% higher than against a normal mob. __________________

03-03-2005, 07:17 PM	#5
Specteral Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 141	Banditman wrote: One trick I have learned for solo'ing at higher levels . . . Seek out "creatures of shadow". Shadowmen in Nek Forest, Nightbloods in EL. Against these mobs our disease DoT's do significantly more damage than they do against a normal foe. I can effectively solo these types mobs because my DPS is about 35% higher than against a normal mob. Great tip! I'm currently level 28 (29 shortly), any reccomendations on a list of shadow creatures or something I should be going after for the damage increase?Anyway, I split my time between my Mystic main and a couple alts, but I am starting to fear that by about 35 I'll be swapping to my assassin or bezerker or something, I'm to the point where I fear becoming the Primary Healer in groups. lol __________________

03-03-2005, 08:49 PM	#7
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	I play on butcherblock, and I have rolled out my mystic for about 30 minutes the other day. I had not used it in weeks. I only did so, because a friend was in desperate need of a healer, and just had to finish a quest. Afterwards, I packed my mystic back up and logged back into my swashie. I have been working on getting adept3 for all my main heals and wards. Once I do, I might roll em back out and see how I do, but until then I will be on my swashie or my warlock. __________________

03-03-2005, 01:57 AM	#1
climbhi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	On the Butcherblock server Mystics and Defilers are becomes increasingly rare, Each time I zone I do a /who and find that there are at times notShamans or just 1 or two out of 65+. I always see many Druids and Clerics. THough I still see a few Shamans in the Newbee zones; I guess they have to learn the hard way. I have spoken with many Shaman who state that they are very dicouraged with the class but do not have the time to reroll another character and are hoping that the class will be fixed. A common compliant that I hear is that Shamans have a difficult time getting a group and when they are LFG it is impossible for them to solo because Shamans DPS is too low but the fight can take awhile do to slows and heals. My main was a 30 Mystic but now I exclusively play a Coercer and only play the Mystic when the group I am in loses a healer, so I log on the Mystic until we can find another healer. Even the Shaman boards are becoming less and less popular when compared to other classes. Look at the number of threads and responses. All Shamen do is complain about how gimped they are and how wards are ineffective and how their debuffs are ineffective against white or higher mobs. Who cares that you can slow a blue or green mob. I am getting the impression that Mystics are Defilers are marching out the door (screen) with their feet. The way things are going SOE will not need to fix the Shaman class because no one will be playing one or will have stopped playing EQ2.

03-03-2005, 07:18 PM	#6
hanna0776 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	I agree with Itachi53Not that anyone at SoE cares,

03-03-2005, 09:41 PM	#8
Bolr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 72	I play a mystic on Butcherblock, and the problems with mystics are insignificant to me when I play -- although I'm never LFG, having a fairly tight-knit and active guild, and a wife that plays a zerker. Long-term, I'm fairly confident that they'll get the mystic "right". Look at all the "xxx class sucks, then rocks, then sucks, then rocks" changes that happened in EQ1.Until then, I still have fun playing my mystic. When I stop having fun, or start feeling inadequate (or hit level 50 and have all my quests done), there's always another character slot.

03-03-2005, 09:48 PM	#9
Xalibur Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 136	i parked my mystic and rerolled too...now i have fun again most important is the feeling, as mystic i always felt gimped and less worth than other classes (getting outhealed even by paladins is frustrating..)

03-03-2005, 10:02 PM	#10
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	I agree wholeheartedly. My mystic is on a shelf, I enjoy my swashie, and my warlock. I have also started a Warrior, and currently working on the betrayal quest. Its amazing the things I can do with him. I can solo some Blue ^^ at this point. I am sure that won't last but its nice to use to level up. __________________

03-03-2005, 10:42 PM	#11
Ariochdm1 Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4	I too have been feeling less and less of an urge to play my mystic. I dont really want to roll up a new character and I have been waiting for quite a while now to hear from the developers as to whether or not our wards are working as intended. The silence from them on that issue has been deafening. Being considered a backup healer and not being able to perform on par with a Druid or Cleric in terms of healing is difficult to deal with. I dont want the Mystic to be uber I just want a balancing so that we can perform on equal footing with the other healers. The solution might be an adjustment to our wards and having the dev's take another look at our heals (possibly the heals from the other classes as well). In any event once I get confirmation that we are gimped as intended or feel that there is no love coming I will likely give up and move on to other things besides EQ. I really dont want to as I do enjoy the game overall but it is getting harder for me to log in when I am unable to perform the main role of a healer in the group. :smileysad:

03-03-2005, 11:04 PM	#12
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	I have finally decided. I am going to delete my warrior (did not really enjoy him anyway), and roll one of the other priest classes. If I like it better than my mystic, I may free up that spot as well. __________________

03-04-2005, 12:37 AM	#13
Muad`D General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 72	About halfway to 44 now and am loving my mystic as much as ever. I honestly just do not see the gimpness that everyone is talking about. I solo heal in CT with a group of 41-45 and have been the solo healer for my group since SH in the mid 20's, Varsoons in the late 20's, RE in the 30's, RV in the late 30's, now CT/EF/Lavastorm. I am in no way discounting the complaints that the people on these boards bring up, nor am I trying to make myself look cool. I simply do not relate the 95% of the threads on these boards because for reasons beyond my comprehension, I do not encounter the problems (i.e. wards being worthless, debuffs not mattering, etc. etc.) that apparently every other shaman is encountering that has made the game unplayable to them. __________________ 50 Human Mystic Kithicor Server

03-04-2005, 01:01 AM	#14
Wolfherz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 102	Muad`Dib wrote: About halfway to 44 now and am loving my mystic as much as ever. I honestly just do not see the gimpness that everyone is talking about. I solo heal in CT with a group of 41-45 and have been the solo healer for my group since SH in the mid 20's, Varsoons in the late 20's, RE in the 30's, RV in the late 30's, now CT/EF/Lavastorm. I am in no way discounting the complaints that the people on these boards bring up, nor am I trying to make myself look cool. I simply do not relate the 95% of the threads on these boards because for reasons beyond my comprehension, I do not encounter the problems (i.e. wards being worthless, debuffs not mattering, etc. etc.) that apparently every other shaman is encountering that has made the game unplayable to them. Well said. Mystic 45 here and we feel exactly the same way. Sure wards could be better but overall. We duo whites, heroic solo and groups, we trio yellows and so forth.

03-04-2005, 01:41 AM	#15
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Solo healing CT in the early 40's is no great accomplishment. I can do that. Not because my Mystic has the tools, but because my tank simply doesn't take much damage. A 42 Guard in CT can pretty much tank anything there and not take damage at a rate exceeding my power to heal. Note that I said heal. Not Ward. I honestly expected a lot more firepower in the enemies in CT. Venekor and his guards being notable exceptions. __________________

03-04-2005, 02:01 AM	#16
Khilendel Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Ok first of all, you guys smoke crack if you think mystic is a gimpy class. I am a level 45 mystic on Everfrost. I can slow mobs 65% Debuff Str/Sta of mobs by 41 Delevel there attack magic by 7 levels, and melee skills by 5. Do 3500pts in wards And EASILY pull 50-80dps Please, play the high end game before u start calling your class gimpy. -Khil __________________ -Rindeil of Core First Non-bot level 50 mystic on EverFrost.

03-04-2005, 02:06 AM	#17
Wolfherz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 102	Banditman wrote: Solo healing CT in the early 40's is no great accomplishment. I can do that. Not because my Mystic has the tools, but because my tank simply doesn't take much damage. A 42 Guard in CT can pretty much tank anything there and not take damage at a rate exceeding my power to heal. Note that I said heal. Not Ward. I honestly expected a lot more firepower in the enemies in CT. Venekor and his guards being notable exceptions. Where must someone hunt at that level to achieve an accomplishment in your eyes ?

03-04-2005, 02:24 AM	#18
disru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 285	Khilendel84 wrote: Ok first of all, you guys smoke crack if you think mystic is a gimpy class. I am a level 45 mystic on Everfrost. I can slow mobs 65% Debuff Str/Sta of mobs by 41 Delevel there attack magic by 7 levels, and melee skills by 5. Do 3500pts in wards And EASILY pull 50-80dps Please, play the high end game before u start calling your class gimpy. -Khil I can slow mobs 65%:Slows can never exceed 35%, Slows do not stack in any way.Debuff Str/STa....:As of right now you can not debuff stamina at all, they removed the -sta effect from all debuffs about 2 months ago.Delevel there attack....:Try Subjagation and Disruption by ~4 levels and crushing/piercing/slashing by ~3And EASILY pull 50-80dps:LOL, logs please.Please, play the high end game before....:Please make sure that you know what you're talking about before trying to tell people who have been studying and parsing the spells and skills for months anything.You have just proven that being "high level" does not necessarily mean you know what you're talking about.You have totally ruined any credibility toward your future posts. Message Edited by disrupt on 03-03-2005 01:37 PM __________________ Please go voice your disdain for Mystic nerfage here!

03-04-2005, 02:57 AM	#19
ChristopherK Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 85	disrupt wrote: And EASILY pull 50-80dps: LOL, logs please. Okay, you can knock him on all the other stuff, but 50 - 80dps is doable. The other day in the obelisk of lost I was pulling 90dps as secondary healer (shadow stuff in there). My average DPS as secondary healer in even con to +4 zones is in the 40 - 60 range. I normanly out DPS lazy players

03-04-2005, 03:04 AM	#20
disru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 285	I will concede on that dps range for beings of shadow I have doubts about reaching a dps over 60ish on other stuff without chain dot/nuking. Message Edited by disrupt on 03-03-2005 02:06 PM __________________ Please go voice your disdain for Mystic nerfage here!

03-04-2005, 03:08 AM	#21
Wolfherz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 102	ChristopherKee wrote: disrupt wrote: And EASILY pull 50-80dps: LOL, logs please. Okay, you can knock him on all the other stuff, but 50 - 80dps is doable. The other day in the obelisk of lost I was pulling 90dps as secondary healer (shadow stuff in there). My average DPS as secondary healer in even con to +4 zones is in the 40 - 60 range. I normanly out DPS lazy players I concur. Melee all the time. Make your HOs count (potential 200+ extra damage every 5 sec). 40-60 is very doable.

03-04-2005, 03:39 AM	#22
WazzaTU Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	I agree 100% with the poster who said they have trouble relating to most of the posts on this board (hence this being the first post). I would be jumping for joy if they added AC mitigation to wards, I mean who wouldn't, but I have never felt gimped or weak or whatever, and I have never, ever, ever had problems solo healing since I first tried it out around level 33 in RV. As a matter of fact, ever since then I've been under the impression that having 2 healers in a pure exp group is a complete waste of time. I also don't understand what the poster who called solo healing at level 42 in CT "no great accomplishment" or whatever, seeing how there are only two "main" zones for xp that level, CT and PF. The first time I went to perma I was a solo healer, and it was at level 42, the only time I had any trouble whatsoever was on the level 50 giants, because slow did not always stick right away, and when it doesnt, the encounter gets considerably harder. (by level 43 when they no longer con red, this is no longer a problem.) As far as the low levels go, I can't comment. As I said before, I didnt even attempt to solo heal a group pre level 33, but as I recall, Clerics and Druids weren't doing it either. Now it has been quite a while since I xp'd in RE or those places, and maybe there are Clerics and Druids running around solo healing down there now all the time, maybe not, like I said, I don't know so I won't comment.I've read posts in here where people are saying things like "I get resisted 50-60% of the time" and crap like that, and really the only thing to do is to either call BS or just don't say anything, which is what I have always opted to do. Unfortunately, for every satisfied Mystic not saying anything, theres an unhappy one here posting (which, hey, if you are unhappy with the class and want to get some things tuned/fixed, more power to you, I have a lot of issues with a lot of spells, it just happens that Wards aren't one of them) but that doesnt make the class "gimped". It also seems like everyone who comes on this board and states that they are happy with their Mystic gets ran right up outta here, which sucks because most class boards have a broad range of various topics related to their class, while everytime I click on this board, I see pages and pages of "Mystics suck!" threads, just with different titles. It's all extremely annoying. Kudos to whoever the dude was that made that thread trying to consolidate all the gripes about broken spells into one thread. Maybe it will cut down on all the threads started simply to say "My Mystic is gimped".We CAN heal solo, and effectively, I do it every single night, and so do many others.Waza X47 MysticOasis

03-04-2005, 04:34 AM	#23
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	About the only thing I can say in our defense, is most of you that are in your high 30's or mid 40's went through the 20s a long time ago, well before they increased the amount of damage the 20's level mobs dish out, as well as increased the amount of HP they have. Mystics may be fine and balanced at 40+ I have no idea, but 20's level mystic is gimped in a big way. My adept3 spectral lasts one hit, maybe two. Due to other issues of passing on unmitigated damage after the ward expires, it makes wards not only useless, but a liability. So we are basically healing with one hand tied behind our backs. Now I can still do my job against a single ^^ mob. This is not too much problem, but I still burn alot of power. Any multiple mob group of even con in this level range is pretty dangerous if your only healer is a shaman class. We go our of power before the fight is over due to having to spam instant heals, that is if we can even keep up with it. Sure you guys can sit back and disregard what i am saying, laugh to yourself and say that I simply dont know how to play. But mind you, our 20's are not as easy as your 20's were, its barely the same game it was in Dec, when you went through your 20's. Like I said, tonight I am going to roll a druid and take a hard look at the difference between the two. Although I am sure many will find a way to disregard any and all of my findings simply because "back in their day" they did not have any problems. __________________

03-04-2005, 04:39 AM	#24
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	Another thing I should note. I have a couple other characters in their 20's and have been in groups where a mystic is our only healer, and others where we have a templar, fury or warden. While the mystic is still able to get the job done, barring any adds or bouncing aggro, the other healers can handle it, throw in some DPS and still come out with more power. Adds, and bouncing aggro, no problem, they may have to cut out the DPS a bit, but they can handle healing more efficiently and therefore effectively have a larger power pool. Like I said, I will let you all know what I find, that is if you care. __________________

03-04-2005, 04:40 AM	#25
Wolfherz Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 102	Spagma wrote: About the only thing I can say in our defense, is most of you that are in your high 30's or mid 40's went through the 20s a long time ago, well before they increased the amount of damage the 20's level mobs dish out, as well as increased the amount of HP they have. Mystics may be fine and balanced at 40+ I have no idea, but 20's level mystic is gimped in a big way. My adept3 spectral lasts one hit, maybe two. Due to other issues of passing on unmitigated damage after the ward expires, it makes wards not only useless, but a liability. So we are basically healing with one hand tied behind our backs. Now I can still do my job against a single ^^ mob. This is not too much problem, but I still burn alot of power. Any multiple mob group of even con in this level range is pretty dangerous if your only healer is a shaman class. We go our of power before the fight is over due to having to spam instant heals, that is if we can even keep up with it. Sure you guys can sit back and disregard what i am saying, laugh to yourself and say that I simply dont know how to play. But mind you, our 20's are not as easy as your 20's were, its barely the same game it was in Dec, when you went through your 20's. Like I said, tonight I am going to roll a druid and take a hard look at the difference between the two. Although I am sure many will find a way to disregard any and all of my findings simply because "back in their day" they did not have any problems. Well, soon we have mentoring and we can test your theory. I suspect our opinion won't change. Most of the points you make to explain why the 20s are so difficult are true if not more so for the 40s.

03-04-2005, 06:27 AM	#26
Spag Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 788	That may be true, but you also have much more in your arsenal by that point, you can stack single target wards, and have more heals to choose from. Not to mention, group debuffs, and better slows. Again, I am only guessing at this as I am not up there yet. From what I know about our class I have 1 heal spell thats worth anything, and 1 single target ward. A slow that does not debuff, and a debuff that does not do much of anything. Each last about 50 seconds or so, and have to be reapplied 2-3 times throughout a fight. My mana pool is limited, and my most mana efficient direct heal uses about 1/5 of it. __________________

03-04-2005, 12:37 PM	#27
WazzaTU Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	~double post Message Edited by WazzaTU on 03-03-2005 11:46 PM

03-04-2005, 12:45 PM	#28
WazzaTU Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 9	.....You can't be serious.Ok, so I will completly disregard the fact that you are implying the 40's are easier than the 20's, and move forward. What level are you that you only have "1 heal spell that's worth anything?". There is no, I repeat no level in which you are a full blown Mystic that you only have 1 heal. I can't seem to find a list, but you should always have at least 1 fast heal for a lot of HP/Mana, and the slower one with the quicker recast, less mana uaage and less HP healed. Totemic Aid I think was the lowest. You should be alternating between them, using the slow one with the noxious cure attached as the main heal. If you already knew this, I apologize, but that statement makes 0 sense, the only time a heal becomes "useless" is when it is replaced by a better heal that uses the same timer. If you only have 1 single target ward, you'd have to be below level 26.6, which means you are using spectral ward, which was like level 12 or something. Come on man, that spell is very old at that point. Suck it up and level to 26.6 and get AW, which will stack on top of SW, and the efficency shoots way way up, not only do you have a brand new ward, but you can also use the old one on top of it.As far as slow effectiveness, it is all relative. KH is pretty much the same as HH, the latter just works on higher level mobs. And regarding your final statement...your most mana efficient heal uses 1/5 of your mana pool? There is either something very wrong with your mana pool, or that is not your most mana efficient heal. If you can only heal 5 times during the course of one fight, which is also assuming you don't cast anything else at all, I don't really know what to tell you, except that making a Druid will not fix that. I can only hope that the mistake you are making is that you are using the quick heal as your main form of healing, instead of using the slower heal with the noxious cure attached. If you aren't, and you are healing correctly, you need to get more mana from somewhere, somehow, and fast. Since you just become a true Mystic at level 20, of course it is going to take some time to get into the routine, but I refuse to believe that 20-30 are the hell levels, regardless of whatever SOE did to the mobs in that range. It may be hard (or next to impossible even) to solo heal a group at that level, I don't know, I never tried, but if it is, join a group with another healer, like you should be at that level anyhow. I seem to recall most of my groups in the 20's having 2 tanks as well. 2 healer groups become obsolete around the same time 2 tank groups do. That is just the way it is.Waza X47 MysticOasis Message Edited by WazzaTU on 03-03-2005 11:51 PM

03-04-2005, 03:03 PM	#29
BigDa Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 227	WazzaTU wrote: ..... You can't be serious. Ok, so I will completly disregard the fact that you are implying the 40's are easier than the 20's, and move forward. What level are you that you only have "1 heal spell that's worth anything?". There is no, I repeat no level in which you are a full blown Mystic that you only have 1 heal. I can't seem to find a list, but you should always have at least 1 fast heal for a lot of HP/Mana, and the slower one with the quicker recast, less mana uaage and less HP healed. Totemic Aid I think was the lowest. You should be alternating between them, using the slow one with the noxious cure attached as the main heal. If you already knew this, I apologize, but that statement makes 0 sense, the only time a heal becomes "useless" is when it is replaced by a better heal that uses the same timer. You are right in a way, though what the poster probably means is there is only one heal with a decent power to HP ratio - I haven't really checked, myself. Currently at level 42 I have 4 heals I can use one after the other. 2 fast and 2 slow - one, however (a slow one) has a much better power to HP ratio than the others. If you only have 1 single target ward, you'd have to be below level 26.6, which means you are using spectral ward, which was like level 12 or something. Come on man, that spell is very old at that point. Suck it up and level to 26.6 and get AW, which will stack on top of SW, and the efficency shoots way way up, not only do you have a brand new ward, but you can also use the old one on top of it. At level 42 I have 4 single and one group ward and I can stack all 5 on a target. However, because so much damage (specials, DoTs, spells, even some 'normal') leaks through ALL FIVE AT ONCE having more then one up is often pointless. As far as slow effectiveness, it is all relative. KH is pretty much the same as HH, the latter just works on higher level mobs. And regarding your final statement...your most mana efficient heal uses 1/5 of your mana pool? There is either something very wrong with your mana pool, or that is not your most mana efficient heal. If you can only heal 5 times during the course of one fight, which is also assuming you don't cast anything else at all, I don't really know what to tell you, except that making a Druid will not fix that. I can only hope that the mistake you are making is that you are using the quick heal as your main form of healing, instead of using the slower heal with the noxious cure attached. If you aren't, and you are healing correctly, you need to get more mana from somewhere, somehow, and fast. Since you just become a true Mystic at level 20, of course it is going to take some time to get into the routine, but I refuse to believe that 20-30 are the hell levels, regardless of whatever SOE did to the mobs in that range. It may be hard (or next to impossible even) to solo heal a group at that level, I don't know, I never tried, but if it is, join a group with another healer, like you should be at that level anyhow. I seem to recall most of my groups in the 20's having 2 tanks as well. 2 healer groups become obsolete around the same time 2 tank groups do. That is just the way it is. I'm not sure that 20-30 is worse than 30-40. IMHO healing for a group is difficult all the way along for mystics unless you have a chanter or another healer or a bard or something seriously augmenting things. Waza X 47 Mystic Oasis It seems that when you near 50th level the mystic is pretty good. This has been a theme in lots of "stop moaning - mystics are awesome" posts. Good for you guys. I'm truly happy for you. Unfortunately, lots of us aren't just grinding to 50 to do raids and get uber-loot - some of us would like to enjoy the journey more.

03-04-2005, 04:01 PM	#30
Miric Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2	I have a 21 fury and a 30 defiler, I love them both, i couldnt favor 1 over the other, i don't see the same probs with the ward's/debuffs stated here, infact when on my fury i sometimes wish i had my defiler's buffs. Ya'll need to learn how to use HO's, not specifically in 4-6 peep groups cause it can get messy (but i find in 4-6 peep groups your issues with being solo healer isnt sush a burden as you should have enuff dps to finish most things off quicker than you really need to heal, so i figure most ppl's complaints about their debuffs/healing/wards are all about soloing and small groups with lil DPS) I duo alot with my zerker gf on my defiler, now all we pretty much do after ive warded her and debuffed the mob is combined HO's, saves so much power i can finish an encounter even 2-3 mob white encounters with 1/4 - 1/2 power pool left. Not only can you do massive damage together on combined HO's but with defiler/zerker (think it might be all fighter/all priest) combined HO's i can heal her for upto 750 which 80% of the time complete heals her that same effect adds a small HoT and a ward for a short time. I dont believe that there isnt things that need to be fixed on mystic/defiler class but you need to learn how to play it to its best ability, ive never dreaded being solo healer, could mostly be due to i trust my tank. Tho I believe most of the time you are only as good as your tank, if your tank sucks no matter how fast your heals are you cant keep them alive.......that being said, when it all comes down to it, you need to choose ur battles that best suits your abilities.