PvP Experiences?

[Rinul]

I'm curious to know what everyone's experience has been with a Warden in PvP. At level 16, I'm consistently dying to blues, white, and yellow con opponents. This is solo, I have yet to participate in group PvP.My general strategy is to throw up a Renewal (which I took as my Master II choice) at the beginning of the fight. I then root, and start throwing Chill and Greater Fire. Chill is Adept I, Greater Fire is Apprentice II. If they are melee, then I will get close so that they are hitting my damage shield for a little additional damage.I'll admit that I'm a PvP newbie. Never played in a PvP environment before, but I wanted some extra excitement to my game play.Have any thoughts? Is our class not very powerful in solo PvP? Should I avoid it altogether?

[verukte76]

I have a warden level 33 name is kroete with a 2:1 KvD. Only class i had trouble soloing at that level was a necro and brigand. Now its SK's rest is pretty easy.

Upgraded all your spells it makes all the difference as well as raising your INT. I do not melee with a melee class, the thorn damage is not worth it i do go melee agains caster types.

I always open with root and debuff. Then I heal as neccesary as I nuke.

Worse case I throw down snare and unass the AO.

[Oneira]

At level 16 it's still far too early to draw any conclusions about a Warden in PvP.    You probably don't have anywhere near the armor, jewelry and spell upgrades yet.Once you get all 4 of the damage spells, including and especially your DOT that lowers ele resistance and your AE Encounter attack at 32, then Wardens become tough, very tough.   Just get your mitigation and resistances as high as they will go.  Disease resistance is especially important, as is poison. If you keep your spells upgraded getting as many adept 1's and a few adept III's and Masters, then by the mid-30's you will be a very formidable opponent in solo PvP and in group PvP.At 37 I almost never lose to a blue con opponent.  Even cons, even many yellow cons I win more than half the time. For strategy tips, keep your AE root-line button ready.  This will save your life many, many times.  I don't how often i've been jumped by oranges, immediately hit my escape spell (the Wisp line), rooted them, and got away.  Likewise use your emergency heal sooner than later.  Don't hold it back.  Also, remember that your damage shield puts you into combat mode, so beware.

[Arielle Nightshade]

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Oneira wrote:
At level 16 it's still far too early to draw any conclusions about a Warden in PvP.    You probably don't have anywhere near the armor, jewelry and spell upgrades yet.

Once you get all 4 of the damage spells, including and especially your DOT that lowers ele resistance and your AE Encounter attack at 32, then Wardens become tough, very tough.   Just get your mitigation and resistances as high as they will go.  Disease resistance is especially important, as is poison. 

If you keep your spells upgraded getting as many adept 1's and a few adept III's and Masters, then by the mid-30's you will be a very formidable opponent in solo PvP and in group PvP.

At 37 I almost never lose to a blue con opponent.  Even cons, even many yellow cons I win more than half the time. 

For strategy tips, keep your AE root-line button ready.  This will save your life many, many times.  I don't how often i've been jumped by oranges, immediately hit my escape spell (the Wisp line), rooted them, and got away.  Likewise use your emergency heal sooner than later.  Don't hold it back.  Also, remember that your damage shield puts you into combat mode, so beware.

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This is excellent advice - and I agree, at lvl 16 you don't have all the spells in your arsenal that really make Wardens in PvP shine.    I agree that it's kind of disheartening to have to wait to level up to really see any difference, but if you stick with it, it does get better.  Besides what Oneira has said here, I also strongly suggest that you try to PvP as much as possible in a group.   This will give you some successes, and be quite a bit less demoralizing than trying to fight the higher levels solo that are, no doubt, 'jumping' you now.

From 190  levels of being a protected healer (Warden, then Templar) it's been a REAL shock to me, needing LOTS of adjustment ..to be thrown into the middle of things.  In most cases, my group will protect me, but when the poo really hits the fan, you need to have the mindset of protecting yourself, as well.  The other discouraging thing about being a healer in PvP is that any encounter begins with "Ok..we take out the healer first.."    

The bad news is: you are a major target.  The good news is:  with good spell upgrades and even some middling decent armor (doesn't have to be rare...)  a Warden is not easy to kill...although it may seem like it at lvl 16.   There is a strategy to this too...if you can keep yourself healed, many groups will focus on killing you - to their detriment.  While they are (in a lot of cases unsuccessfully) trying to kill you, the DPS in your group has a free hand to kill them.   This is a different mindset from PvE healing where, if you take a hit..you often ignore your own injuries to keep the group healed.

I can't say I always follow this advice, but I am trying to learn:  If you can keep your head and not freak out when you are getting hit - you can succeed. 

 When you level to 20, you get your first Wolf spell, which will really help you a lot.  That provides some extra mitigation, as well as allowing you to see invis'd people....which helps you get a jump on either attack or defense.    My advice is to upgrade this as best as you possibly can.  

 What I'm finding is:  in PvE, the no-brainer upgrades are heals (usually single target direct heal, group direct heal, regens...etc).  In PvP, I'm seeing that the better upgrades are Wolf and defense buffs...with heals being sort of interspersed in there too.  This is under the theory that:  if you dont have much defense and are dead...it doesn't matter HOW uber your heals are.

At level 47, I'm still deciding if I like PvP, and am not certain I do.   The level range is, IMO too large to really offer any challenge.  It seems you either have the choice of killing green cons (which I don't like)  or getting Jumped by orange or higher con.   I rarely see anyone my own level or close willing to engage in a fair fight.  

I'm rambling..but, in summary:   Upgrade Wolf as soon as possible after you get it.  Try and choose an nice mix of STA, WIS and INT for your gear (vs the 'close to pure' WIS choices you'd make in PvE).  Find a good group if at all possible and cultivate a list of people you can hang out with.   Upgrade your spells as much as you can afford to do - which..if you have a good group..is a bit easier to do (with a group, you can go places where the Good Stuff drops).   And above all, give yourself a chance!

Good luck!   I do feel your frustration...but with practice, you will see some less frustrating results.

Message Edited by Arielle Nightshade on 06-16-2006 01:58 PM

[Vorr]

I have to say, this is some pretty sound advice here.  The extra damage you do while in melee range due to your damage shield is not worth the amount of punishment you will be taking from the melee classes.  It is better to root them straight off and pound on them, doing as much as you can while they are held at a (somewhat) safe distance.  Also, if you get jumped and have a DPS with you, you don't necessarily have to root and run.  Stay out of combat and mode and just chain heal.  This allows you to continue to regenerate power at your out of combat rate, ensuring you have plenty to finish them off with, all the while your DPS friend is beating on the attacker.  This is especially true for tank types who just cannot do enough damage to seriously threaten you (unless you're a Qeynosian and fight a SK with his Harm Touch up, that is).Also, like others have said, my primary focus is on getting my spells to adept I or higher.  At level 34 I do not have a single upgradable spell that is not at or higher than Adept I.  It makes a HUGE difference.  You heal for more per shot, do more damage, get resisted less often, have better buffs (and for a Warden that means more WIS, which in turn means better resists).Basically as a healer, your pvp experience will be the waiting game.  Over the course of a long fight you should be able to keep yourself alive longer than any other class type, then have plenty of power left over for the kill.  (and grouping is a BIG part of pvp, especially for a healer.  Get yourself a group with a tank and at least one dps and you should be able to do amazing things.)

[Arielle Nightshade]

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Vorryl wrote:

 You heal for more per shot, do more damage, get resisted less often, have better buffs (and for a Warden that means more WIS, which in turn means better resists).Basically as a healer, your pvp experience will be the waiting game.  Over the course of a long fight you should be able to keep yourself alive longer than any other class type, then have plenty of power left over for the kill.  (and grouping is a BIG part of pvp, especially for a healer.  Get yourself a group with a tank and at least one dps and you should be able to do amazing things.)

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Awesome advice...adding to Vorryl's WIS comment, too:  besides resists, WIS is your power pool.  Up to the cap, the more WIS you have, the more power you will have.   The "other side" is waiting for the healer to run oop.  Just make sure you make them wait good and long (evil laugh....)

[serialxv]

I'm having the exact opposite experience in low level PvP with my Warden.  I'm currently lvl 21.  Try outhealing their damage until you can safely throw damage out.  I'm finding myself having no problems with yellows.  My problem is them running away when they're down to 20-30% health and pretty much out of power  (just as I'm getting warmed up offensively) :smileymad: My healing is much more mana efficient than the damage dealing of the people I'm coming up against.  I know I'm irritating them to no end.  I have been running into on average one PC a day that decides to keep coming back and throwing themselves at me.  It may be in the hopes of learning how to defeat a defensive stance like I've been taking, but some of them are just really [Removed for Content]. Try healing through the initial burst while they blow all their longer timers.  Then keep an eye on your health and start to ramp up your offensive spells. 

[Lordviperscorpian]

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serialxv wrote:I'm having the exact opposite experience in low level PvP with my Warden.  I'm currently lvl 21.  Try outhealing their damage until you can safely throw damage out.  I'm finding myself having no problems with yellows.  My problem is them running away when they're down to 20-30% health and pretty much out of power  (just as I'm getting warmed up offensively) :smileymad: My healing is much more mana efficient than the damage dealing of the people I'm coming up against.  I know I'm irritating them to no end.  I have been running into on average one PC a day that decides to keep coming back and throwing themselves at me.  It may be in the hopes of learning how to defeat a defensive stance like I've been taking, but some of them are just really [Removed for Content]. Try healing through the initial burst while they blow all their longer timers.  Then keep an eye on your health and start to ramp up your offensive spells. 

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Its slow at the lower levels for wardens.  You really get good starting at 45 when you get duststorm, then at 54 when you get natures ally you get reeeaaaallly good :smileytongue:Remember our snare spell cant be broken by any damage, so save that for when they start to run.  Thats 12 seconds of then being snared without fear of you breaking it.And of course in group pvp the winning equation is always:Warden + Fury = Win.Unless you get fusioned....i got blowed up :smileysad:Roor64 warden NagafenSempiternal

Message Edited by Lordviperscorpian on 04-11-2006 11:30 AM

[Dolamaine]

wardens have the best group heals and its all about group healing in pvp. im finding that i've got a bulls eye on my back after the 1st heal or two. if you want to "pwn solo" don't be a warden. through lvl 20, best thing we have going for us is our faster cast times and root.

[Lukee]

I have a 50 Berserker on Nagafen and was thinking about rolling a healer alt. I was debating Fury or Warden. A buddy is convinced that Warden is the way to go because of the strong root/heals/evac and survivability.

Last night, I was in Maj'dul and see a yellow conning warden coming my way. We both stop and just kinda look at each other. Well, he hit me with a spell, so the fight was on. I was expecting to die since he was higher level, but this guy must not know how to play the class well, or I just got lucky. I went at him and used Rampage and Frenzy. He took quick damage and died.  I was a bit bummed out because I thought Wardens would at least fare better, expecially considering that he had a t least a few levels on me.

Did he just not play to the Warden's strength? How would you veterans out there handle a Berserker 1-1 when you get in the first strike?

Thanks in advance.

[Lordviperscorpian]

With duststorm up i never have any troubles with melee classes what so ever.  Wardens have alot higher MIT and Avoid than a fury.  In fact i have alot higher mit than most chain classes my level.  Sounds like the guy just didnt have duststorm up if you were able to take him out that quick. 

[Rappy]

the crucial difference in addition to what has been said above is the massive focus buffs wardens have built into their wolf form

[serialxv]

Ah, you hit one of those wardens that don't know that they can heal?  I've run into a few of those on Nagafen.  I'm lower level but fighter classes aren't a problem.  Monk interupts can be a bit of challenge if you don't stay on top of the casting.   I played an assasin till mid-40's on pvp before rolling my warden.  The warden is tougher and has significantly more chance of survival.  I know that the warden does suit my playstyle more, but what a difference in pvp.  I am no longer a glass cannon.  Now, if only my roots was resisted less by the orange pc's that decide they want to gank and run when they're out of power and I'm still at full health and half power.....

[Lukee]

Ok, thank you. That's what I thought. I only have a few interrupts, but with the immunity timer, it certainly gives a warden enough time to heal.

[Arielle Nightshade]

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serialxv wrote:
Ah, you hit one of those wardens that don't know that they can heal?  I've run into a few of those on Nagafen.  I'm lower level but fighter classes aren't a problem.  Monk interupts can be a bit of challenge if you don't stay on top of the casting.   I played an assasin till mid-40's on pvp before rolling my warden.  The warden is tougher and has significantly more chance of survival.  I know that the warden does suit my playstyle more, but what a difference in pvp.  I am no longer a glass cannon.  Now, if only my roots was resisted less by the orange pc's that decide they want to gank and run when they're out of power and I'm still at full health and half power.....

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Exactly....I can wipe the floor with a lower conned plate tank.     I was a shy pvp'er on the PvE servers, and only would pvp with my monk partner.  As a result, I can wipe the floor with an evenly conned monk, too,  one on one - but that's only with lots of practice, and not a warden 'feature', I think.   

Serial has the right of it though...you have to stop them from casting those blasted stuns ..    

In PvP I usually throw the bruiser at 'em.  That stops them!!  LOL

 

[Toej]

Wardens start getting tough at aorund the 30's.  I first discovered this a few weeks ago.  I ran into a blue con Warden when I was at level 34 and hit him with a fireball, then with a few other nukes.  He hit me with a debuff/DOT and healed back most of the damage I did.  The fight went on for a few mintues until my power started to dry up.  By this time I was at half health and realized that there was no way I was going to kill him when he had nearly half power left.  My only option was to evac with the power I had left.  In the end the best I could do was 2/3 damage.

[commieb]

Well, at 62 my warden is standing up extremely well. I think I went a bit different than others in how i outfitted him and I think it's paying off. Instead of bothering with INT and getting wisdom into the high 400's I've been getting my Mitigation & Avoidance up while keeping my resists very high. This way I'm not taking much damage and it makes it easier for my HoT to keep me up. I see other wardens and furies wearing cloth and going down far too quickly. Go defensive, it works out well. Anyways-- If you arent a few levels above me you arent killing me. Thats pretty much what it has boiled down to. I may not kill them, but they sure arent killing me. @ 62 its like 2850 mit, 28% avoid, and all 2500-3500 resists-- 3900hp--seems respectable enough to me.

[Geroth Vex'T]

i am a 70 warden on a non pvp server that duels alot... wearing 90% raid gear, all resists above 5k self buffed....3k mit 6700 power solo, 5k hp (no potions / food taken into account for these stats)

my experience when dueling some of the best equipped lvl 70's on my server is that a sk should be avoided, and necros and conjurer you better be paying attn to beat them

guardians when extremely well equipped can pose a problem of sorts, but you always have the ability to root them and kill (i have master root for single target so im not sure how well ad3 etc roots are resisted but master seems to land with enough predictability to kill a guardian if its really needed.)

note that rooting a tank to kill him will probly [Removed for Content] him off so i do try to avoid using it in duels, I duel guardians without sandstorm and just dps them as much as possible til they die, I duel bezerkers with sandstorm and use same technique.

vs another priest i highly recommend doing the quest in sos for a weapon called essentia which is equippable (though it is dw weapon) by a warden... this weapon procs a mana tap, also serene symbol aa ability will help you keep the priest you are dueling on his/her toes and is even better if they dont notice their buffs poofing.

i really havent dueled a brigand lately but i assume they are still mean because they dispell your buffs so easily, but they might be easy if they lack the dps to kill a lvl 70 since we can heal like mofos.

in a group our regens shine, plain and simple

warden is definately one of the better classes to play for pvp, wizards and warlocks, all scouts, and 99% of the priests you fight are no problem to beat, and the only class i see an issue with is shadowknights with very good resists.

[Geroth Vex'T]

i forgot to mention monks / bruisers in duels... i have a bruiser friend that uses a 106 dmg rating weapon and another weapon with less dmg but better procs... the dmg can catch you off guard but a brawler still has a better chance of loosing a duel to a warden than a warden does of loosing to a brawler.

[Noguks]

What AA line up do you have or plan on for your pvp setup?

I was initially thinking going for 8 in the spell crit line (roughly 12% dmg increase), 8 in charm animal (pets do serious dmg + its nice to diversify dmg type) and 8 in double attack (double attack with 2hander seems nasty).  This would seem to be the max dps setup. 

But my experiences so far at lvl 33 have made me reconsider and set my sights on the 30 sec stun immunity.  I seem to spend way to much time trying to heal myself when a melee is on me than I do fighting back due to interrupts and stuns.

I know dealing with interrupts should be less of a problem due to the increased focus buff from wolf form and perhaps the duststorm series but stuns will always be a problem.  Also a side bonus is that in raids you can cancel a stun and cure your team. 

What are your thoughts?

Oh another question to end game lvl Wardens.  How is your dmg holding up to raid equipped players?  Fire and cold resist are fairly easy to max out.

Thanks again.

Message Edited by Noguks on 05-24-2006 08:01 AM

[serialxv]

I mastered my solo roots.  I was getting tired of spending the time outlasting a player and having them able to run me off because they resisted my roots so often.  The master helped significantly.  I can now land a root on an even or yellow con.  With just an adept 1, I couldn't land a root on an even con, let alone a yellow.  I'm working down the Stamina line first in AA's.  There's just too much PvP fun in that line to ignore it. I'm currently lvl51 on a PvP server and I excel in [Removed for Content] off other players trying to kill me.  I don't kill fast, but I can heal through most front end damage they deal as they blow through all their timers.  Then it's my turn :smileyvery-happy:

Message Edited by serialxv on 05-24-2006 12:41 PM

[Geroth Vex'T]

even considering pure pvp as your goal i dont know about skipping the heal crit aa in the stam line would be worth it, you do have to heal yourself in pvp ;p

toss up between str and int line of aa is something i havent yet decided on, imo wait until you get a very nice t7 sword to do the str line (or if your lower lvl and find a nice as hell sword use it)

[kap]

My overall question to this topic would be how effective are Wardens in dealing with spike damage? I find that to be the most problematic aspect of the PvP servers. Like most people noted you're most often fighting against people that are orange or higher and they usually can deal a lot of damage quickly. Oddly enough they also can outlast your entire party in power as well. I'm not all that familiar with the way wardens heal. I'm under the impression that they're regen healers for being the most effective but PvP especially when you're fighting against someone who's way higher is about spike damage. Can wardens keep up with this kind of damage?

[Lopan13]

Me'z kin tell joo dis... Me'z wuz out luukin fer halfies in Antonica. Me'z do ok when me'z fight yellers n below... wun on wun me'z only prollem is when me'z lose me'z cool. Den me'z luuk back n tink.. " Chingy, joo know better'n dat." sumtimes joo win, sumtimes joo eat da dirt... OH n sumtimes joo losin, den joo tun da tide, n dey go poof... me'z had dat happen about twenty times in antonica, dat witch qween let her minions git outta trouble when dey go against da Troll! Me'z seem ta be guud against da dress wearin Q's. but me'z did have a paticularly nice lil chase wit dis Iseeku. Or sumtin like dat. Heem chase me'z around fer a long time.. den when heem catch me'z we go at it fer a guud long time. Sumwhar long da line heem see da powah o da faceless n me'z put da fear o thule in heem. Heem wuz singin da whole time, so me'z tink heem wantin ta fight Troll ta have sumtin ta sing bout.. Me'z only prollem is dat dere nar nuff halfies fightin fer Q's. Dem delishus lil buggars hard ta spot, but when da whole battlefield filled wit scrawny, gamey woodies. So me'z have wun request... lift da breeding cap in da Halfie hovel! Let dem drink, n make lil halfies so dat me'z nar be so skinny! in conklusion, halfies taste guud

[sythys]

I have to say, at lvl 14, I Already like my Warden in pvp. First I tried defiler and it was a joke. Long casting time on EVERYTHING, 0 damage, and no CC. With warden it's a whole different story. I have ben jumped by guys 6-8 lvls higher than me and I can root them, nuke, heal when needed. I have almost killed people that much higher than me. Atleast if I can't kill them I can almost always get away. Lovin it so far.....

[sythys]

True story: Last night in CL I was attacked by 3 seperate gankers: A wizard, a ranger, and a swashy. All of them were 4 levels higher than me. Each fight I just stood there and chain healed myself until they ran out of power. The wizard actually did a /cry and then danced around me for a bit and left. LOL. The ranger wouldn't give up so I had to root him and run but man was it hilarious. People must get so [Removed for Content] when no matter how hard they try you JUST WON'T DIE! :smileyvery-happy:Is this a valid tactic in higher lvl pvp as well? Running someone out of power with self heals and then switching to offense? Hope so cause it's fun.

Message Edited by sythys on 06-15-2006 09:14 AM

[stargazer5678]

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sythys wrote:
True story:

Last night in CL I was attacked by 3 seperate gankers: A wizard, a ranger, and a swashy. All of them were 4 levels higher than me. Each fight I just stood there and chain healed myself until they ran out of power. The wizard actually did a /cry and then danced around me for a bit and left. LOL. The ranger wouldn't give up so I had to root him and run but man was it hilarious. People must get so [Removed for Content] when no matter how hard they try you JUST WON'T DIE! :smileyvery-happy:


Is this a valid tactic in higher lvl pvp as well? Running someone out of power with self heals and then switching to offense? Hope so cause it's fun.

Message Edited by sythys on 06-15-2006 09:14 AM

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Really depends on the class you are fighting. In most cases it's possible to heal yourself staying out of combat. You regen power quickly since not in combat and can kill them later when they run out of power.

The problem here is that in most cases you want to kill not just defend. I am currently level 59 and almost always solo PvP. It's not enough for me to survive, I have to figure out how to kill. When you get into the 40s you have to deal with more experienced players that generally have better gear and spells. In the early levels you can (20 to 30) you can kill many because they don't know yet how to play their class and have bad gear/spells.

From my experience I can say that I only had problem with Conjurors (not sure if it still will be the case after LU24). I could take down other classes even if some of them were orange to me. In terms of tough classes here is the list going from hard to easy

Conjuror

Swashbuckler

Monk

Ranger

Paladin (only after tier 5)

Berserker

Illusionist

Dirge/Troubadour

Wizard

Warlock

Guardian

 

All healers is a special case. If they are close in level just forget about them because it's going to be a 10 minute fight with good chance of help from someone else who happens to be nearby..

I would strongly recommend to improve Intelligence. I chose Int line for AA and have some Int gear. With that it's possible to have Int at around 230-250 at level 60. If you ignore Int you are likely to be in 130-170 range therefore dealing noticeably less damage in PvP.

What I am trying to say Wardens can do OK DPS if they choose to do so and that's without really sacrificing much in the healing department..

 

Leshii, 59 Warden Nagafen

[commieb]

The problem with spec'ing for INT and offense is not that your healing is going to be any worse, its that your defense is going to suffer horribly. I see wardens with 350 int and such running around at 70..  then i look at their other stats.. like 4200 hp.. 5000 power... 2200 mitigation.. Bad resists.. You just sacrifice far too much. Im sitting at 5100hp 6100power 3250mit and great resists across the board. like 240int. I dont have problems unless someones maxed out on heat/cold. I think your better off going max health and defense and resists so you arent taken down quickly. Then you can just throw sandstorm up and take your time vs a melee.. and casters are a joke with high resists.

As for classes @ 70 that pose a problem.. Well the only class that is going to beat a defensive warden is a Ranger with sniper shot or a group. Swashies, Monks, Conjurors.. all jokes. Sandstorm absolutely destroys swashies and monks and most other melee classes, and with high resists and stuff conjurors/wizards and the like do no damage to you. Fusion by the good wizards barely scratches me these days. The key is make sure you get sand up right away vs a melee class, especially a dual weild.

This is who's gonna beat you anyways, theres plenty of classes that can easily escape.. other healers.. illusionists, monks.. etc

Message Edited by commiebob on 06-15-2006 03:03 PM

[sythys]

so sandstorm rootsyou in place? But can you still cast other things?

[Tuppen]

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sythys wrote:
so sandstorm rootsyou in place? But can you still cast other things?

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Yes