The reason why warden wont be fixed

Zel · 10-13-2005, 04:37 AM

"But remember that there's no way to please everyone. If you really think everything about the combat changes was "terrible," you're probably going to remain unhappy."Moorgardbr>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410Moorgard said it!The Warden post revamp probably got the bigger nerf/most inappropriate changement, enjoy about it or leave. It wont have any revamp about Regen Ability/Scalability or Redefining Warden Ability because atm Warden is working as intended.It"s very sad for communauty who's complaining ^^A game is all about fun, and if my class was balanced with an other i wont write any feedback/bug report everyday or wont post on boards.Why did people call the warden board of "Whinner's Board" ?Because we're the only class got the end of stick at this revamp, chain healing a tank and pray for he doesnt die or get an ad and wipe, 0 ability to get a REAL role in raid, seeing the 1000+ heal of your healer groupmate and he's laughing about your 600+ heal; its the new warden. Enjoy.

Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 02:40 AM

Knarfst · 10-13-2005, 04:49 AM

I agree. Warden will not be fixed. They probably did a cost benefit analysis.

They realized only a few wardens are actually left with active accounts and decided it would be a waste of time to fix their class only to make a few people happy.

Fortunate for me I am not one of those wardens. My account expires in less than a week. I am thinking about trying out WOW. It probably will fill in the time until vanguard or something better comes along.

Take care fellow wardens.

Zel · 10-13-2005, 05:23 AM

Imho, we have more chance to claim for getting an animal charm and have somes fun ^^From EQOA Warden has got : - DoT - DD - Cold/fire Buff - HoT - Direct Heal - Snare - Root - Detaunt - Buff HP/others stats - SOW - EvacA big missing Spell : Charm Animal !!!! :'(

Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:26 AM

Dragonreal · 10-13-2005, 08:02 AM

Zelya wrote:
Imho, we have more chance to claim for getting an animal charm and have somes fun ^^

From EQOA Warden has got :
- DoT
- DD
- Cold/fire Buff
- HoT
- Direct Heal
- Snare
- Root
- Detaunt
- Buff HP/others stats
- SOW
- Evac

A big missing Spell : Charm Animal !!!! :'(
Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:26 AM

Unless they made some changes since I left eqoa, druids on there never got a detaunt unless they 1) got to 60 and 2) grinded out the most difficult to get healer master class (Diviner); 480 points in stat requirements, 200 for the class, 150 for the two abilities + any other CMs that were worth getting.. like if you wanted charm, that's another 100 points, if you wanted to get the highest stat point maxes, it was another 55 points per stat, etc.. needless to say, there weren't many people who put that much work into it and those who DID get that master class most likely said screw the detaunt cuz honestly detaunts weren't really all that great in that game. Also, that master class was available to any healer, not just the druids.

The direct heals they got, were group heals with a decent size direct portion (if you really really concentrated on the heal mod stat, which most druids found to be useless) and a very small and short hot, insane aggro, and were outdone by clerics anyway. If druids wanted a real direct heal, the only way was with the master class I outlined in my first paragraph.

Anyway.. I just basically wanted to say, please don't try to make wardens on here like eqoa druids lol even now, wardens are much better off imo than an eqoa druid and I should know since I played one for 2 years (lvl 60 diviner master class, ~850 cms, full heal path)

Raijinn · 10-13-2005, 08:10 AM

Zelya

I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410

Sorano · 10-13-2005, 08:21 AM

Raijin if you read that post by MG you will notice that he does not mention wardens in it at all. Guards, assassins and coercers all get a mention, but wardens I'm afraid are now at the bottom of the 'to fix' list, because Lockeye already gave us some attention. Unfortunately this means serious issues like our zero raid viability, our borked marquee spells, and our still less than stellar burst healing abilities are not going to get addressed and that really sucks. This is why wardens are worried because we are still badly broken in a lot of ways and a fix now looks like something that will only happen in the very distant future.

Raijinn · 10-13-2005, 08:52 AM

Sorano,

I wouldn't say that, dev always looks over things and can make changes so don't rule out the thought that it's not going to happen. That's really the main thing.

Drebin · 10-13-2005, 01:47 PM

*Irony mode on*

Now that wardens are healers as monks are dps, shorten our Evac casting time so we will be used as in EQ1 in raids.

I mean seating down behind the raid, regen the rezzed mates and evac on Raid Leader's order.....

*Irony mode off*

Seriously, where is the balance in this?!? Why would a lvl 50 group chose a warden instead of a fury, inqui, mystic, etc... They will pick a lvl 40 of the mentioned class instead of us.

Michirure · 10-13-2005, 02:36 PM

hello, Raijnn,

thanks for listening to the warden concerns. It must be exhausting, to read the same statements again and again.

Firstly I didn't wanted to throw in my words due to the fact that English is not my native language and my struggle to express my feelings in the right way is simply embarrassing.

But please, can you understand why the wardens keep complaining? Where is the developers feedback for the very clear, precise and reasonable expressed reasons that warden still lack the ability to heal adequate, where the feedback for the very good proposals being made from Caerwyn et al.?

Of course, apart from the stated:

"All Casting times are being reduced to match Fury cast times.
All Initial heal amounts are being increased.."

This was much appreciated, but really, the warden is still not balanced to other healing classes. Yesterday I had another crucial experience, talking to a 36Templar. He was plainly shocked to compare his healing spells which heal more than double the amount of an initial heal of mine (lvl 50) and how agonizing slowly and for what small an amount the HoTs tick.

14 levels difference!!

Should not the high level healer heals at least slightly better than the low level, not the low level healer much better than the high level?

It was my turn to be shocked as the Templars pal (Dirge) said: "If you are not able to heal or to heal properly, than you must do something wrong, because you have your HoTs. It is how you are supposed to heal, with HoTs".

I really AM humble, but this was impertinent. Mr Scout feels the urge to explain the Warden how to heal properly.

I told him how it feels, if someone is to build a strong house and all what he has got for this task are tools made of rubber. How would he feel, when a fellow craftsman or a neighbor comes by, the pockets full of good and proper tools, observing the poor [Removed for Content]’s endeavours: "if you are not able to build the house with the tools you got, you MUST do something wrong, I think, you just lack experience!"

The dirge was quite fine with LU13. I am really unenvious about this, but should not the warden feel the same?

Do the developers think, what this Dirge thinks? That we are just simpletons and not able to adapt to the changes being made? Yes? No?

Or do they think, we are just whining because we are accustomed to be considered as some sort of Uber healer? Personally, I think, this is what the developers have in mind, this is why no more adjustment to the warden class were made, because we only mourn about "the good old Uber times".

Maybe in the beginning the Warden WERE complaining like ALL other classes, because all classes got a nerf here and there and it is normal to complain in this process of adaption to the changes.

But now the situation is different. We are still complaining, but now because we were some time in combat, struggling and fighting with very great effort and difficulties to keep a tank alive in a tough encounter and eyeing the relative ease other healing classes have in the same encounter now.

Dear developers, I don’t want to be an Uber healer beyond all other healing classes, I don’t want to have the "best" healing class in the game.

There should be no "best", is this not the sense of "balancing"? There should not be a "worst" either, but this are the Wardens now.

All I want are features matching the features all other healing subclasses have. All I want are the same POTENTIALITIES the other healing classes have, of course in a different WAY to reach my goal, but nonetheless with the SAME accomplishment, not this anguishing remnant I am now.

Wardens just want to be equal, not more. Do you find this cormorant?

I am frustrated and sad beyond words. I really love to play everquest2, but I want to play it as a happy warden. I started playing some alts but still all I want to be is a warden.

By cancelling my account I would be frustrated and sad also, but at least it would not cost me any money?

Please, would you PLEASE adjust the Warden to the other healers?

Message Edited by Michirure on 10-13-2005 03:44 AM

Rappy · 10-13-2005, 03:15 PM

sadly i'm comming to this conclusion although i still have some hope that we will hear something - i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough MG plays a bruiser... i rolled a bruiser - call me a cynic but i figure thats the least likely class to get broken without some sort of quick response -- sad when a guild leader has to consider starting a character over to be useful to his guild --

Moonstar · 10-13-2005, 04:16 PM

Raijinn Thunderguard wrote:

Zelya

I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410

Another post about Wardens, Follow the linkie

Urkra · 10-13-2005, 04:28 PM

Moonstar wrote:

Raijinn Thunderguard wrote:

Zelya

I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410

Another post about Wardens, Follow the linkie

That link is old.

I the post about the hotfix that kicked us in the theet giving a whooping 40hp more to out T5 big heal at master I quality.

Really a fix that was greatly anticipated by theatral posts by two devs and that really never happened.

Message Edited by Urkraft on 10-13-2005 02:30 PM

Urkra · 10-13-2005, 04:28 PM

removed: Double post

Message Edited by Urkraft on 10-13-2005 02:30 PM

Moriga · 10-13-2005, 04:50 PM

If the intention was to balance the healers this is what they should have done IMO.

All healer classes have a group buff with fairly equal additions to mitigation.

Each of the three classes ( ex Druid) get a specific buff/heal against one type of damage

Each of the 6 subclasses ( ex Warden , Fury) get a specific buff/heal against one type of damage

So as an example all Druid classes would have say poison buff/heals , Warden would have Cold, Fury would have heat

Bring the heals up to a reasonable level, even 600 hit point heal is nothing when tanks are at 6000 hit points or more and mobs are hitting for 3k plus.

This would allow all healers to function in group situations and would create a rotation situation in raids as far as who is needed in MT group.

Morgaine

Befallen

Marlamm · 10-13-2005, 05:20 PM

Rappy wrote:
sadly i'm comming to this conclusion although i still have some hope that we will hear something - i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough

MG plays a bruiser... i rolled a bruiser - call me a cynic but i figure thats the least likely class to get broken without some sort of quick response

-- sad when a guild leader has to consider starting a character over to be useful to his guild --

i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough

I most wholly and eargerly second this statement. Devs really need to say something soon. And for those who take issue with hostile posts i might add that hostility has a fertile breeding ground in silence.

Maewin Willowpaw / Toxx

Zel · 10-13-2005, 05:36 PM

From Guardian Board :" I find it interesting that everyone is falling over themselves to give Raijinn this positive feedback he wants. He's not a dev. He's a mod. His job isn't to gather info on class balance. It's to chill the forums out and make everyone happy. I admit it's a remote possibility that a group of devs said to him "Look, we're too lazy to read the forums ourselves, but we suddenly feel this outflowing of compassion towards the Guardian class. Why don't you go forth and gather a list of their grievances so that we may act dilligently upon them?" What's more likely is that he's under pressure to supress all the angst on this particular board by any means necessary. If that is the case, pretending that he's making a list of all our grievances is a great way to distract us from our usual whining. It's a *deception*. This is why some threads with useful debate in them have been closed at the first sign of flames. His priorities are painfully obvious. I would certainly welcome proof to the contrary, but I sincerely doubt any will be forthcoming. "/clapWe have here a moderator, not a dev to fix our class.All about Warden Fix/Bugs/solutions have said here so collecting info if there are infos HERE, it is already done. Now Waiting for ACTIONS.

Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:41 PM

arielelf · 10-13-2005, 05:38 PM

Michirure wrote:

hello, Raijnn,

thanks for listening to the warden concerns. It must be exhausting, to read the same statements again and again.

Firstly I didn't wanted to throw in my words due to the fact that English is not my native language and my struggle to express my feelings in the right way is simply embarrassing.

But please, can you understand why the wardens keep complaining? Where is the developers feedback for the very clear, precise and reasonable expressed reasons that warden still lack the ability to heal adequate, where the feedback for the very good proposals being made from Caerwyn et al.?

Of course, apart from the stated:

"All Casting times are being reduced to match Fury cast times.All Initial heal amounts are being increased.."

This was much appreciated, but really, the warden is still not balanced to other healing classes. Yesterday I had another crucial experience, talking to a 36Templar. He was plainly shocked to compare his healing spells which heal more than double the amount of an initial heal of mine (lvl 50) and how agonizing slowly and for what small an amount the HoTs tick.

14 levels difference!!

Should not the high level healer heals at least slightly better than the low level, not the low level healer much better than the high level?

It was my turn to be shocked as the Templars pal (Dirge) said: "If you are not able to heal or to heal properly, than you must do something wrong, because you have your HoTs. It is how you are supposed to heal, with HoTs".

I really AM humble, but this was impertinent. Mr Scout feels the urge to explain the Warden how to heal properly.

I told him how it feels, if someone is to build a strong house and all what he has got for this task are tools made of rubber. How would he feel, when a fellow craftsman or a neighbor comes by, the pockets full of good and proper tools, observing the poor [Removed for Content]’s endeavours: "if you are not able to build the house with the tools you got, you MUST do something wrong, I think, you just lack experience!"

The dirge was quite fine with LU13. I am really unenvious about this, but should not the warden feel the same?

Do the developers think, what this Dirge thinks? That we are just simpletons and not able to adapt to the changes being made? Yes? No?

Or do they think, we are just whining because we are accustomed to be considered as some sort of Uber healer? Personally, I think, this is what the developers have in mind, this is why no more adjustment to the warden class were made, because we only mourn about "the good old Uber times".

Maybe in the beginning the Warden WERE complaining like ALL other classes, because all classes got a nerf here and there and it is normal to complain in this process of adaption to the changes.

But now the situation is different. We are still complaining, but now because we were some time in combat, struggling and fighting with very great effort and difficulties to keep a tank alive in a tough encounter and eyeing the relative ease other healing classes have in the same encounter now.

Dear developers, I don’t want to be an Uber healer beyond all other healing classes, I don’t want to have the "best" healing class in the game.

There should be no "best", is this not the sense of "balancing"? There should not be a "worst" either, but this are the Wardens now.

All I want are features matching the features all other healing subclasses have. All I want are the same POTENTIALITIES the other healing classes have, of course in a different WAY to reach my goal, but nonetheless with the SAME accomplishment, not this anguishing remnant I am now.

Wardens just want to be equal, not more. Do you find this cormorant?

I am frustrated and sad beyond words. I really love to play everquest2, but I want to play it as a happy warden. I started playing some alts but still all I want to be is a warden.

By cancelling my account I would be frustrated and sad also, but at least it would not cost me any money?

Please, would you PLEASE adjust the Warden to the other healers?
Message Edited by Michirure on 10-13-2005 03:44 AM

Great post Michirure! Very thoughtful. I continue to hold out some hope but I did roll a bard....:smileysad:

Priestbane · 10-13-2005, 10:15 PM

Yikes... don't bring us dirges into it... we've had precisely one SOE response in our boards since November of last year, and that was from Blackguard. One! Ever!

Mor · 10-14-2005, 12:19 AM

Test update #15. Still no fixes for wardens.

Maelakai · 10-14-2005, 12:24 AM

Morie wrote:
Test update #15. Still no fixes for wardens.

I wish I could say I was suprised =/

What ever happened to Tuved btw? Did he finally give EQ2 the boot?

Kyralis · 10-14-2005, 12:41 AM

My guess it that either Tuved's account expired (since he did say he quit) or he ran afoul of raijin_thunderguard. I could see a moderator getting a little fed up with his particular manner of posting.

Shennr · 10-14-2005, 06:37 AM

Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website.

Knarfst · 10-14-2005, 08:20 AM

Shennron wrote:
Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website.

It's not surprising. He was one of the most outspoken members of the forum. I would have preferred it if SOE would have answered his legitimate complaints though rather then silence him.

I honestly think their strategy is to just ride out the people that are upset. Sure some will quit. But some dont realize how inferior wardens are compared to other priests and will blindly continue to pay (as evidenced by some posts here). By locking and banning people that point out how broken wardens are they hope to keep the number of malcontent players to a minimum. This is a very short sighted strategy. It may cost more in the short run to make the fixes to the broken classes. But the loss of goodwill and trust will doom them in the long run. Personally I will never even purchase another SONY product.

The good news for SOE is I will not be posting in a few more days as my account expires as well.

Mor · 10-14-2005, 08:37 AM

Shennron wrote:
Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website.

For which post? I really did not approve of much of what he said (particularly his attacks on Raven), but he did appear to tone things down toward the end.

Urkra · 10-14-2005, 06:05 PM

Morie wrote:

Shennron wrote:
Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website.

For which post? I really did not approve of much of what he said (particularly his attacks on Raven), but he did appear to tone things down toward the end.

Tuved2 posted on my guild board to let me know he was banned and he is not playing anymore he says.

I must say that even if i disagreed with the methods Tuved2 used to gather the attention i agreed with the message and the intention he was pushing forward, which were only for the best of the warden comunity.

Frankly i am sick and tired of people and moderators demanding "constructive" post backed up by "facts" or "parses" or "number". Why? i ask. Why do i have to debug a game i pay for ? Is this still a beta test ? I didn't think so last time i checked my credit card bill. So why do i have to tell SOE what is wrong with wardens ? They gotta tell me what is broke and they have to fix it, making the game fun again.

Yes, i say it like they owe it to me becasue in fact they do owe it to me and they owe it to you, because we are their customers.

Numbers and parse and facts can tell a zillion things but surely cannot tell how much fun am i having playing the game.

Number means nothing if you do not have fun playing the game anymore

I did make my share of cosntructive posts and pleads in the beta boards for about a month, they went unheard, i kicked and screamed before release, it went unheard, other people make their pleads and scream in beta, SOE did not notice, Many other very patient wardens (like Caerwyn and shennron and spagma and many others) kept on feedbacking all that is wrong on those very same boards, they still were ignored.

So not only SOE want us to beta test their game - not only for free, but paying a subscription fee - but they also have the arrogance of completely ingoring, still today, all the people which are doing the job they should be doing instead. And this very last one is the reason why i stopped making constructive, factuals feedback posts, because they would be ingored anyway and i have a better use to make of my time than work for free for a company that only slap me in the face with a "40hp fix".

I gave up this fight and i have about 2 month ticking away on my subscription. I guess i shall see what has SOE done by mid december to address the non fun situation i am having when i play the game ...

TimidMou · 10-14-2005, 06:29 PM

Well here's my thoughts on LU13. Prior to LU13 I was able to do my job a lot better than I can now, but since many people felt that Wardens were overpowered prior to the update, this doesn't come as too much of a surprise. The question of whether I can do my job at all now, well, yes, provided the encounter is not extremely challenging. If the encounter is a very difficult one, then I will invite a mystic, I find they complement my healing quite well. The question of whether the mystic would rather have a templar co-healer doesn't usually come up since I try to do the inviting (I am particular about group set up). However all that being said there are 2 glaring issues with wardens:

a) Soloing - it really boils down to this, Wardens can do most of the things (but not all) that other classes can, only more slowly (with the exception of our fellow healers). A wizard, warlock, bruiser, monk, any scout, can solo the same stuff at a higher rate, therefore gaining faster xp/quest completion. We used to be able to do things more safely than the other classes, right now I do not believe that is the case. Healers are atm, just not a very good soloing class, when you consider the factor of speed. Now, the fact is that the circumstances may be different for clerics/shamans, so I won't try to speak for them, only my guess is they are just as poorly off in this regard. Whether the devs feel that healers should be able to solo as well as other classes is anyone's guess I suppose.

b) Raids - I have to agree with the others who posted on this. I was recently appointed main healer of my group in a raid, and as a side job, I was to heal the MT (in another group). The simple fact is, when the mobs hit the MT for 1/3 to half his life, and I cast my heal-over-time regen on him, and the mob hit him again, he would simply be dead unless a Mystic or Templar were to pull him out of it. So did my HoTs provide any side benefit seeing as it failed to deal with this insane spike damage? Noone would really know since the health over time of the MT wasn't the primary concern, what was killing him were the spikes. After 14 ticks, the encounter would be over because the MT is dead or we killed the mob, usually. This is something unique to the way raid mobs are hitting, which we do not see as such a big problem in small groups where our HoTs actually have a chance to take effect. I would recommend that if the devs really wanted to see how hard it is to keep a MT alive with regen heals, that they should try one of their raid encounters using wardens and furies as the primary healers.

Now the question is, with these changes, is this a game-breaker for me?

Well, only partially. I can still do some things on my warden, and I am still able to level reasonably well if not slowly. What I have done mainly however, is I have been playing my alts a whole lot more. Ranger, bruiser, and necromancer, in particular are much better than they were before, in fact if LU13 had been in the game from the beginning I would probably have stuck with ranger (my original intent when I first started playing EQ2). However, I feel it is sad that I have a character that I used to find a whole lot of fun playing, no longer so fun. It would seem to be counter to anybody's intention (I am sure no dev said to himself, hmmm, let's see how I can make EQ2 less fun today). However, the point is: when a class is underpowered, it is much less fun to play. Some people might like the challenge, but most of us just feel gimped, and when it becomes not-much-fun-at-all, we may simply have to find something else to do.

I personally believe that wardens will be fixed eventually, I just hope sooner rather than later. To the suffering Warden community, if I may make a humble suggestion, try making an alt, especially the new scout classes, I found it enormous fun and a reason to continue playing EQ2 SMILEY

Message Edited by TimidMouse on 10-14-2005 10:33 AM

Maelakai · 10-14-2005, 06:36 PM

Well spoken as usual Urkraft.

It's not unusual for a customer to ask to speak to a manager. As customers it is our right. We are paying a monthly fee for a service, and if for whatever reason we are unhappy with the service we have two options.

1. Remove ourselves from the obligation of the service (cancel the account) and seek out another service that better suits our play style.

2. Communicate our issues with the company providing the service, and have an open dialog regarding our issues.

The warden community has come under alot of flak recently due to our outspoken nature, and the fact that we had SOME developer attention. Well, as a paying customer it is our RIGHT to demand attention, it is our RIGHT to express our concerns when a service is not functioning as it was advertised.

You can argue that the majority of wardens do not post on the forums here. Well, that may be true... but every warden I have spoken to in game has been disenchanted with the changes to our class. Worse yet, word has gotten out about our lack luster ability to deal with spike damage... we're the last healer picked from the barrel. Is this fun for SoE? Do they feel we should sit back quietly and not be concerned that our class has been made the least viable healer in the game?

Many wardens have already chosen option 1, I know two personally that have left... and while I'm patient, I do not like to be ignored. Not listening to your customers is a horribly short-sighted decision to make, especially with several new MMOs on the horizon.

I think I speak for the majority of the warden community when I say that we want a developer (not a moderator sent to quell our voices) to post here, letting us know that our concerns have been heard and are being looked into. That would do more to keep subscriptions then leaving us in the dark.

Warmest Regards.

Mor · 10-14-2005, 08:18 PM

Maelakai wrote:

I think I speak for the majority of the warden community when I say that we want a developer (not a moderator sent to quell our voices) to post here, letting us know that our concerns have been heard and are being looked into. That would do more to keep subscriptions then leaving us in the dark.

This is most definitely not what I want. I want a developer to say flat out that they know there are problems with the warden class being underpowered and they are working a solution in the near future. That is a world away from "hearing our concerns." What I want is clear acknowlegement of the problems.

Message Edited by Morie on 10-14-2005 09:19 AM

Somniloquy · 10-14-2005, 08:44 PM

Hey Knarfster yeah go try out WoW, Its the ideal place for all those who find EQ2 a bit too challenging. My record to level 60 on wow is game time of 16 days and a bit. Too easy mate, way too Ebayed, drastically unbalanced but admittedly it is a bit of light relief. And dont anyone say anything about WoW's endgame being cool cos it aint, a limited set of grinds through poorly designed mob pits they dare to call instances for some class specific gear that generally aint the best you can get in any case.

Since the buff up in LU14 warden is a decent enough healer. Ok so it doesnt cope with Epic scale damage spikes too well but hey, only one tank class can cope with that particular role as well right ? We all have our specialisites. If you are just questing and levelling then a well played warden is a fine group healer and keeps MTs alive as much as anyone. Who cares that temps have a burst heal for almost twice what my bigges burst is. I can layer several lines of HoT and throw up group cures without immediately being top of the hate lists and I can do some nice damage too when appropriate. And I can cast fast too with two nice lines now at 1.5 seconds. And I know plenty of Temps and if they the sole healer they have just as much trouble as I do. In my guild there was a lot of "maybe we should get a templar too" when I was the only healer avail but not any more.

LU 14 put enough balance in to keep me playing.

Mor · 10-14-2005, 08:55 PM

I'm really glad that extra 40 hps at level 50 is going to save your tank.

10-13-2005, 05:23 AM	#3
Zel Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	Imho, we have more chance to claim for getting an animal charm and have somes fun ^^From EQOA Warden has got : - DoT - DD - Cold/fire Buff - HoT - Direct Heal - Snare - Root - Detaunt - Buff HP/others stats - SOW - EvacA big missing Spell : Charm Animal !!!! :'( Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:26 AM __________________ Naylia, 60 Warden (First Server!) of Runnyeye [Xanadu]. "From Debate Springs up Light"

10-13-2005, 08:02 AM	#4
Dragonreal General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,554	Zelya wrote: Imho, we have more chance to claim for getting an animal charm and have somes fun ^^ From EQOA Warden has got : - DoT - DD - Cold/fire Buff - HoT - Direct Heal - Snare - Root - Detaunt - Buff HP/others stats - SOW - Evac A big missing Spell : Charm Animal !!!! :'( Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:26 AM Unless they made some changes since I left eqoa, druids on there never got a detaunt unless they 1) got to 60 and 2) grinded out the most difficult to get healer master class (Diviner); 480 points in stat requirements, 200 for the class, 150 for the two abilities + any other CMs that were worth getting.. like if you wanted charm, that's another 100 points, if you wanted to get the highest stat point maxes, it was another 55 points per stat, etc.. needless to say, there weren't many people who put that much work into it and those who DID get that master class most likely said screw the detaunt cuz honestly detaunts weren't really all that great in that game. Also, that master class was available to any healer, not just the druids. The direct heals they got, were group heals with a decent size direct portion (if you really really concentrated on the heal mod stat, which most druids found to be useless) and a very small and short hot, insane aggro, and were outdone by clerics anyway. If druids wanted a real direct heal, the only way was with the master class I outlined in my first paragraph. Anyway.. I just basically wanted to say, please don't try to make wardens on here like eqoa druids lol even now, wardens are much better off imo than an eqoa druid and I should know since I played one for 2 years (lvl 60 diviner master class, ~850 cms, full heal path)

10-13-2005, 08:10 AM	#5
Raijinn Community Relations Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 406	Zelya I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410 __________________ Regards, Joel "Raijinn" Sasaki

10-13-2005, 08:21 AM	#6
Sorano Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 505	Raijin if you read that post by MG you will notice that he does not mention wardens in it at all. Guards, assassins and coercers all get a mention, but wardens I'm afraid are now at the bottom of the 'to fix' list, because Lockeye already gave us some attention. Unfortunately this means serious issues like our zero raid viability, our borked marquee spells, and our still less than stellar burst healing abilities are not going to get addressed and that really sucks. This is why wardens are worried because we are still badly broken in a lot of ways and a fix now looks like something that will only happen in the very distant future. __________________

10-13-2005, 08:52 AM	#7
Raijinn Community Relations Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 406	Sorano, I wouldn't say that, dev always looks over things and can make changes so don't rule out the thought that it's not going to happen. That's really the main thing. __________________ Regards, Joel "Raijinn" Sasaki

10-13-2005, 04:37 AM	#1
Zel Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	"But remember that there's no way to please everyone. If you really think everything about the combat changes was "terrible," you're probably going to remain unhappy."Moorgardbr>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410Moorgard said it!The Warden post revamp probably got the bigger nerf/most inappropriate changement, enjoy about it or leave. It wont have any revamp about Regen Ability/Scalability or Redefining Warden Ability because atm Warden is working as intended.It"s very sad for communauty who's complaining ^^A game is all about fun, and if my class was balanced with an other i wont write any feedback/bug report everyday or wont post on boards.Why did people call the warden board of "Whinner's Board" ?Because we're the only class got the end of stick at this revamp, chain healing a tank and pray for he doesnt die or get an ad and wipe, 0 ability to get a REAL role in raid, seeing the 1000+ heal of your healer groupmate and he's laughing about your 600+ heal; its the new warden. Enjoy. Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 02:40 AM __________________ Naylia, 60 Warden (First Server!) of Runnyeye [Xanadu]. "From Debate Springs up Light"

10-13-2005, 04:49 AM	#2
Knarfst Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	I agree. Warden will not be fixed. They probably did a cost benefit analysis. They realized only a few wardens are actually left with active accounts and decided it would be a waste of time to fix their class only to make a few people happy. Fortunate for me I am not one of those wardens. My account expires in less than a week. I am thinking about trying out WOW. It probably will fill in the time until vanguard or something better comes along. Take care fellow wardens.

10-13-2005, 01:47 PM	#8
Drebin Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 19	Irony mode on Now that wardens are healers as monks are dps, shorten our Evac casting time so we will be used as in EQ1 in raids. I mean seating down behind the raid, regen the rezzed mates and evac on Raid Leader's order..... Irony mode off Seriously, where is the balance in this?!? Why would a lvl 50 group chose a warden instead of a fury, inqui, mystic, etc... They will pick a lvl 40 of the mentioned class instead of us.

10-13-2005, 02:36 PM	#9
Michirure Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 43	hello, Raijnn, thanks for listening to the warden concerns. It must be exhausting, to read the same statements again and again. Firstly I didn't wanted to throw in my words due to the fact that English is not my native language and my struggle to express my feelings in the right way is simply embarrassing. But please, can you understand why the wardens keep complaining? Where is the developers feedback for the very clear, precise and reasonable expressed reasons that warden still lack the ability to heal adequate, where the feedback for the very good proposals being made from Caerwyn et al.? Of course, apart from the stated: "All Casting times are being reduced to match Fury cast times. All Initial heal amounts are being increased.." This was much appreciated, but really, the warden is still not balanced to other healing classes. Yesterday I had another crucial experience, talking to a 36Templar. He was plainly shocked to compare his healing spells which heal more than double the amount of an initial heal of mine (lvl 50) and how agonizing slowly and for what small an amount the HoTs tick. 14 levels difference!! Should not the high level healer heals at least slightly better than the low level, not the low level healer much better than the high level? It was my turn to be shocked as the Templars pal (Dirge) said: "If you are not able to heal or to heal properly, than you must do something wrong, because you have your HoTs. It is how you are supposed to heal, with HoTs". I really AM humble, but this was impertinent. Mr Scout feels the urge to explain the Warden how to heal properly. I told him how it feels, if someone is to build a strong house and all what he has got for this task are tools made of rubber. How would he feel, when a fellow craftsman or a neighbor comes by, the pockets full of good and proper tools, observing the poor [Removed for Content]’s endeavours: "if you are not able to build the house with the tools you got, you MUST do something wrong, I think, you just lack experience!" The dirge was quite fine with LU13. I am really unenvious about this, but should not the warden feel the same? Do the developers think, what this Dirge thinks? That we are just simpletons and not able to adapt to the changes being made? Yes? No? Or do they think, we are just whining because we are accustomed to be considered as some sort of Uber healer? Personally, I think, this is what the developers have in mind, this is why no more adjustment to the warden class were made, because we only mourn about "the good old Uber times". Maybe in the beginning the Warden WERE complaining like ALL other classes, because all classes got a nerf here and there and it is normal to complain in this process of adaption to the changes. But now the situation is different. We are still complaining, but now because we were some time in combat, struggling and fighting with very great effort and difficulties to keep a tank alive in a tough encounter and eyeing the relative ease other healing classes have in the same encounter now. Dear developers, I don’t want to be an Uber healer beyond all other healing classes, I don’t want to have the "best" healing class in the game. There should be no "best", is this not the sense of "balancing"? There should not be a "worst" either, but this are the Wardens now. All I want are features matching the features all other healing subclasses have. All I want are the same POTENTIALITIES the other healing classes have, of course in a different WAY to reach my goal, but nonetheless with the SAME accomplishment, not this anguishing remnant I am now. Wardens just want to be equal, not more. Do you find this cormorant? I am frustrated and sad beyond words. I really love to play everquest2, but I want to play it as a happy warden. I started playing some alts but still all I want to be is a warden. By cancelling my account I would be frustrated and sad also, but at least it would not cost me any money? Please, would you PLEASE adjust the Warden to the other healers? Message Edited by Michirure on 10-13-2005 03:44 AM

10-13-2005, 03:15 PM	#10
Rappy Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	sadly i'm comming to this conclusion although i still have some hope that we will hear something - i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough MG plays a bruiser... i rolled a bruiser - call me a cynic but i figure thats the least likely class to get broken without some sort of quick response -- sad when a guild leader has to consider starting a character over to be useful to his guild -- __________________ Tracx Skyfire - 70 Warden of Permafrost Leader of Clan Nan Dreolan - Euro guild

10-13-2005, 04:16 PM	#11
Moonstar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Moon Posts: 29	Raijinn Thunderguard wrote: Zelya I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410 Another post about Wardens, Follow the linkie

10-13-2005, 04:28 PM	#12
Urkra General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Moonstar wrote: Raijinn Thunderguard wrote: Zelya I hate to burst your bubble but Moorgard also mentioned something else... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=15410#M15410 Another post about Wardens, Follow the linkie That link is old. I the post about the hotfix that kicked us in the theet giving a whooping 40hp more to out T5 big heal at master I quality. Really a fix that was greatly anticipated by theatral posts by two devs and that really never happened. Message Edited by Urkraft on 10-13-2005 02:30 PM __________________ Urkraft of the Shard - Guk 60 Warden Divine Legend

10-13-2005, 04:28 PM	#13
Urkra General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	removed: Double post Message Edited by Urkraft on 10-13-2005 02:30 PM __________________ Urkraft of the Shard - Guk 60 Warden Divine Legend

10-13-2005, 04:50 PM	#14
Moriga Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 60	If the intention was to balance the healers this is what they should have done IMO. All healer classes have a group buff with fairly equal additions to mitigation. Each of the three classes ( ex Druid) get a specific buff/heal against one type of damage Each of the 6 subclasses ( ex Warden , Fury) get a specific buff/heal against one type of damage So as an example all Druid classes would have say poison buff/heals , Warden would have Cold, Fury would have heat Bring the heals up to a reasonable level, even 600 hit point heal is nothing when tanks are at 6000 hit points or more and mobs are hitting for 3k plus. This would allow all healers to function in group situations and would create a rotation situation in raids as far as who is needed in MT group. Morgaine Befallen

10-13-2005, 05:20 PM	#15
Marlamm Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6	Rappy wrote: sadly i'm comming to this conclusion although i still have some hope that we will hear something - i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough MG plays a bruiser... i rolled a bruiser - call me a cynic but i figure thats the least likely class to get broken without some sort of quick response -- sad when a guild leader has to consider starting a character over to be useful to his guild -- i guess this is the most frustrating part, no developer has come onto the warden boards and posted a simple - 'we are working on something please bear with us' - right now i dont even care if the details are not forthcomming, i think just recognition that things need changing would be enough I most wholly and eargerly second this statement. Devs really need to say something soon. And for those who take issue with hostile posts i might add that hostility has a fertile breeding ground in silence. Maewin Willowpaw / Toxx

10-13-2005, 05:36 PM	#16
Zel Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 117	From Guardian Board :" I find it interesting that everyone is falling over themselves to give Raijinn this positive feedback he wants. He's not a dev. He's a mod. His job isn't to gather info on class balance. It's to chill the forums out and make everyone happy. I admit it's a remote possibility that a group of devs said to him "Look, we're too lazy to read the forums ourselves, but we suddenly feel this outflowing of compassion towards the Guardian class. Why don't you go forth and gather a list of their grievances so that we may act dilligently upon them?" What's more likely is that he's under pressure to supress all the angst on this particular board by any means necessary. If that is the case, pretending that he's making a list of all our grievances is a great way to distract us from our usual whining. It's a deception. This is why some threads with useful debate in them have been closed at the first sign of flames. His priorities are painfully obvious. I would certainly welcome proof to the contrary, but I sincerely doubt any will be forthcoming. "/clapWe have here a moderator, not a dev to fix our class.All about Warden Fix/Bugs/solutions have said here so collecting info if there are infos HERE, it is already done. Now Waiting for ACTIONS. Message Edited by Zelya on 10-13-2005 03:41 PM __________________ Naylia, 60 Warden (First Server!) of Runnyeye [Xanadu]. "From Debate Springs up Light"

10-13-2005, 05:38 PM	#17
arielelf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 89	Michirure wrote: hello, Raijnn, thanks for listening to the warden concerns. It must be exhausting, to read the same statements again and again. Firstly I didn't wanted to throw in my words due to the fact that English is not my native language and my struggle to express my feelings in the right way is simply embarrassing. But please, can you understand why the wardens keep complaining? Where is the developers feedback for the very clear, precise and reasonable expressed reasons that warden still lack the ability to heal adequate, where the feedback for the very good proposals being made from Caerwyn et al.? Of course, apart from the stated: "All Casting times are being reduced to match Fury cast times.All Initial heal amounts are being increased.." This was much appreciated, but really, the warden is still not balanced to other healing classes. Yesterday I had another crucial experience, talking to a 36Templar. He was plainly shocked to compare his healing spells which heal more than double the amount of an initial heal of mine (lvl 50) and how agonizing slowly and for what small an amount the HoTs tick. 14 levels difference!! Should not the high level healer heals at least slightly better than the low level, not the low level healer much better than the high level? It was my turn to be shocked as the Templars pal (Dirge) said: "If you are not able to heal or to heal properly, than you must do something wrong, because you have your HoTs. It is how you are supposed to heal, with HoTs". I really AM humble, but this was impertinent. Mr Scout feels the urge to explain the Warden how to heal properly. I told him how it feels, if someone is to build a strong house and all what he has got for this task are tools made of rubber. How would he feel, when a fellow craftsman or a neighbor comes by, the pockets full of good and proper tools, observing the poor [Removed for Content]’s endeavours: "if you are not able to build the house with the tools you got, you MUST do something wrong, I think, you just lack experience!" The dirge was quite fine with LU13. I am really unenvious about this, but should not the warden feel the same? Do the developers think, what this Dirge thinks? That we are just simpletons and not able to adapt to the changes being made? Yes? No? Or do they think, we are just whining because we are accustomed to be considered as some sort of Uber healer? Personally, I think, this is what the developers have in mind, this is why no more adjustment to the warden class were made, because we only mourn about "the good old Uber times". Maybe in the beginning the Warden WERE complaining like ALL other classes, because all classes got a nerf here and there and it is normal to complain in this process of adaption to the changes. But now the situation is different. We are still complaining, but now because we were some time in combat, struggling and fighting with very great effort and difficulties to keep a tank alive in a tough encounter and eyeing the relative ease other healing classes have in the same encounter now. Dear developers, I don’t want to be an Uber healer beyond all other healing classes, I don’t want to have the "best" healing class in the game. There should be no "best", is this not the sense of "balancing"? There should not be a "worst" either, but this are the Wardens now. All I want are features matching the features all other healing subclasses have. All I want are the same POTENTIALITIES the other healing classes have, of course in a different WAY to reach my goal, but nonetheless with the SAME accomplishment, not this anguishing remnant I am now. Wardens just want to be equal, not more. Do you find this cormorant? I am frustrated and sad beyond words. I really love to play everquest2, but I want to play it as a happy warden. I started playing some alts but still all I want to be is a warden. By cancelling my account I would be frustrated and sad also, but at least it would not cost me any money? Please, would you PLEASE adjust the Warden to the other healers? Message Edited by Michirure on 10-13-2005 03:44 AM Great post Michirure! Very thoughtful. I continue to hold out some hope but I did roll a bard....:smileysad:

10-13-2005, 10:15 PM	#18
Priestbane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,527	Yikes... don't bring us dirges into it... we've had precisely one SOE response in our boards since November of last year, and that was from Blackguard. One! Ever! __________________

10-14-2005, 12:19 AM	#19
Mor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 344	Test update #15. Still no fixes for wardens.

10-14-2005, 12:24 AM	#20
Maelakai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 124	Morie wrote: Test update #15. Still no fixes for wardens. I wish I could say I was suprised =/ What ever happened to Tuved btw? Did he finally give EQ2 the boot? __________________ http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3746/humper2iy8.gif

10-14-2005, 12:41 AM	#21
Kyralis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 637	My guess it that either Tuved's account expired (since he did say he quit) or he ran afoul of raijin_thunderguard. I could see a moderator getting a little fed up with his particular manner of posting. __________________ -- Kyralis Warden of Nagafen

10-14-2005, 06:37 AM	#22
Shennr Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 346	Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website.

10-14-2005, 08:20 AM	#23
Knarfst Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	Shennron wrote: Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website. It's not surprising. He was one of the most outspoken members of the forum. I would have preferred it if SOE would have answered his legitimate complaints though rather then silence him. I honestly think their strategy is to just ride out the people that are upset. Sure some will quit. But some dont realize how inferior wardens are compared to other priests and will blindly continue to pay (as evidenced by some posts here). By locking and banning people that point out how broken wardens are they hope to keep the number of malcontent players to a minimum. This is a very short sighted strategy. It may cost more in the short run to make the fixes to the broken classes. But the loss of goodwill and trust will doom them in the long run. Personally I will never even purchase another SONY product. The good news for SOE is I will not be posting in a few more days as my account expires as well.

10-14-2005, 08:37 AM	#24
Mor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 344	Shennron wrote: Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website. For which post? I really did not approve of much of what he said (particularly his attacks on Raven), but he did appear to tone things down toward the end.

10-14-2005, 06:05 PM	#25
Urkra General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Morie wrote: Shennron wrote: Tuved2 got banned from the boards. As far as I know he still plays. Urkraft keeps in touch with him on some other healer website. For which post? I really did not approve of much of what he said (particularly his attacks on Raven), but he did appear to tone things down toward the end. Tuved2 posted on my guild board to let me know he was banned and he is not playing anymore he says. I must say that even if i disagreed with the methods Tuved2 used to gather the attention i agreed with the message and the intention he was pushing forward, which were only for the best of the warden comunity. Frankly i am sick and tired of people and moderators demanding "constructive" post backed up by "facts" or "parses" or "number". Why? i ask. Why do i have to debug a game i pay for ? Is this still a beta test ? I didn't think so last time i checked my credit card bill. So why do i have to tell SOE what is wrong with wardens ? They gotta tell me what is broke and they have to fix it, making the game fun again. Yes, i say it like they owe it to me becasue in fact they do owe it to me and they owe it to you, because we are their customers. Numbers and parse and facts can tell a zillion things but surely cannot tell how much fun am i having playing the game. Number means nothing if you do not have fun playing the game anymore I did make my share of cosntructive posts and pleads in the beta boards for about a month, they went unheard, i kicked and screamed before release, it went unheard, other people make their pleads and scream in beta, SOE did not notice, Many other very patient wardens (like Caerwyn and shennron and spagma and many others) kept on feedbacking all that is wrong on those very same boards, they still were ignored. So not only SOE want us to beta test their game - not only for free, but paying a subscription fee - but they also have the arrogance of completely ingoring, still today, all the people which are doing the job they should be doing instead. And this very last one is the reason why i stopped making constructive, factuals feedback posts, because they would be ingored anyway and i have a better use to make of my time than work for free for a company that only slap me in the face with a "40hp fix". I gave up this fight and i have about 2 month ticking away on my subscription. I guess i shall see what has SOE done by mid december to address the non fun situation i am having when i play the game ... __________________ Urkraft of the Shard - Guk 60 Warden Divine Legend

10-14-2005, 06:29 PM	#26
TimidMou Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 214	Well here's my thoughts on LU13. Prior to LU13 I was able to do my job a lot better than I can now, but since many people felt that Wardens were overpowered prior to the update, this doesn't come as too much of a surprise. The question of whether I can do my job at all now, well, yes, provided the encounter is not extremely challenging. If the encounter is a very difficult one, then I will invite a mystic, I find they complement my healing quite well. The question of whether the mystic would rather have a templar co-healer doesn't usually come up since I try to do the inviting (I am particular about group set up). However all that being said there are 2 glaring issues with wardens: a) Soloing - it really boils down to this, Wardens can do most of the things (but not all) that other classes can, only more slowly (with the exception of our fellow healers). A wizard, warlock, bruiser, monk, any scout, can solo the same stuff at a higher rate, therefore gaining faster xp/quest completion. We used to be able to do things more safely than the other classes, right now I do not believe that is the case. Healers are atm, just not a very good soloing class, when you consider the factor of speed. Now, the fact is that the circumstances may be different for clerics/shamans, so I won't try to speak for them, only my guess is they are just as poorly off in this regard. Whether the devs feel that healers should be able to solo as well as other classes is anyone's guess I suppose. b) Raids - I have to agree with the others who posted on this. I was recently appointed main healer of my group in a raid, and as a side job, I was to heal the MT (in another group). The simple fact is, when the mobs hit the MT for 1/3 to half his life, and I cast my heal-over-time regen on him, and the mob hit him again, he would simply be dead unless a Mystic or Templar were to pull him out of it. So did my HoTs provide any side benefit seeing as it failed to deal with this insane spike damage? Noone would really know since the health over time of the MT wasn't the primary concern, what was killing him were the spikes. After 14 ticks, the encounter would be over because the MT is dead or we killed the mob, usually. This is something unique to the way raid mobs are hitting, which we do not see as such a big problem in small groups where our HoTs actually have a chance to take effect. I would recommend that if the devs really wanted to see how hard it is to keep a MT alive with regen heals, that they should try one of their raid encounters using wardens and furies as the primary healers. Now the question is, with these changes, is this a game-breaker for me? Well, only partially. I can still do some things on my warden, and I am still able to level reasonably well if not slowly. What I have done mainly however, is I have been playing my alts a whole lot more. Ranger, bruiser, and necromancer, in particular are much better than they were before, in fact if LU13 had been in the game from the beginning I would probably have stuck with ranger (my original intent when I first started playing EQ2). However, I feel it is sad that I have a character that I used to find a whole lot of fun playing, no longer so fun. It would seem to be counter to anybody's intention (I am sure no dev said to himself, hmmm, let's see how I can make EQ2 less fun today). However, the point is: when a class is underpowered, it is much less fun to play. Some people might like the challenge, but most of us just feel gimped, and when it becomes not-much-fun-at-all, we may simply have to find something else to do. I personally believe that wardens will be fixed eventually, I just hope sooner rather than later. To the suffering Warden community, if I may make a humble suggestion, try making an alt, especially the new scout classes, I found it enormous fun and a reason to continue playing EQ2 Message Edited by TimidMouse on 10-14-2005 10:33 AM __________________ Eukarya:Animalia:Chordata Vertebrata:Mammalia:Rodentia Myomorpha:Muridae:Murinae Ratonga:Timidus

10-14-2005, 06:36 PM	#27
Maelakai Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 124	Well spoken as usual Urkraft. It's not unusual for a customer to ask to speak to a manager. As customers it is our right. We are paying a monthly fee for a service, and if for whatever reason we are unhappy with the service we have two options. 1. Remove ourselves from the obligation of the service (cancel the account) and seek out another service that better suits our play style. 2. Communicate our issues with the company providing the service, and have an open dialog regarding our issues. The warden community has come under alot of flak recently due to our outspoken nature, and the fact that we had SOME developer attention. Well, as a paying customer it is our RIGHT to demand attention, it is our RIGHT to express our concerns when a service is not functioning as it was advertised. You can argue that the majority of wardens do not post on the forums here. Well, that may be true... but every warden I have spoken to in game has been disenchanted with the changes to our class. Worse yet, word has gotten out about our lack luster ability to deal with spike damage... we're the last healer picked from the barrel. Is this fun for SoE? Do they feel we should sit back quietly and not be concerned that our class has been made the least viable healer in the game? Many wardens have already chosen option 1, I know two personally that have left... and while I'm patient, I do not like to be ignored. Not listening to your customers is a horribly short-sighted decision to make, especially with several new MMOs on the horizon. I think I speak for the majority of the warden community when I say that we want a developer (not a moderator sent to quell our voices) to post here, letting us know that our concerns have been heard and are being looked into. That would do more to keep subscriptions then leaving us in the dark. Warmest Regards. __________________ http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3746/humper2iy8.gif

10-14-2005, 08:18 PM	#28
Mor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 344	Maelakai wrote: I think I speak for the majority of the warden community when I say that we want a developer (not a moderator sent to quell our voices) to post here, letting us know that our concerns have been heard and are being looked into. That would do more to keep subscriptions then leaving us in the dark. This is most definitely not what I want. I want a developer to say flat out that they know there are problems with the warden class being underpowered and they are working a solution in the near future. That is a world away from "hearing our concerns." What I want is clear acknowlegement of the problems. Message Edited by Morie on 10-14-2005 09:19 AM

10-14-2005, 08:44 PM	#29
Somniloquy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	Hey Knarfster yeah go try out WoW, Its the ideal place for all those who find EQ2 a bit too challenging. My record to level 60 on wow is game time of 16 days and a bit. Too easy mate, way too Ebayed, drastically unbalanced but admittedly it is a bit of light relief. And dont anyone say anything about WoW's endgame being cool cos it aint, a limited set of grinds through poorly designed mob pits they dare to call instances for some class specific gear that generally aint the best you can get in any case. Since the buff up in LU14 warden is a decent enough healer. Ok so it doesnt cope with Epic scale damage spikes too well but hey, only one tank class can cope with that particular role as well right ? We all have our specialisites. If you are just questing and levelling then a well played warden is a fine group healer and keeps MTs alive as much as anyone. Who cares that temps have a burst heal for almost twice what my bigges burst is. I can layer several lines of HoT and throw up group cures without immediately being top of the hate lists and I can do some nice damage too when appropriate. And I can cast fast too with two nice lines now at 1.5 seconds. And I know plenty of Temps and if they the sole healer they have just as much trouble as I do. In my guild there was a lot of "maybe we should get a templar too" when I was the only healer avail but not any more. LU 14 put enough balance in to keep me playing.

10-14-2005, 08:55 PM	#30
Mor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 344	I'm really glad that extra 40 hps at level 50 is going to save your tank.