Warden Revamp Impressions

[Arathon]

     Ok, I wanted to give a little information on my initial impressions of the revamp.  I'm not going to concentrate on numbers, I'm going to talk more about game play vs various level mobs in a solo and small group situation.  Ive just gotten to the point that i'm experiencing the changes, so ive got about 4 hours under my belt so far.  I will be testing this stuff in a larger group environment, and hopefully raid situations, Im trying to get into a guild that is raiding.  I will also evaluate the spells more in depth when i get more experience with the changes. 

 

     I was pretty concerned about the raw number nerf on alot of our heals and I wasnt sure if I would even be able to function as a healer.  The raw numbers look bad.  I'll start by saying I was pleasently suprised with the game play.  The numbers definately dont tell the whole story.  I didnt spend alot of time examining the number changes, i wanted to see how I played.  Please note, im fairly well equiped with prismatic, full rare armor, a couple pieces of fabled gear, and most of my primary live spells at master or adept 3.  I can not account for how a less equiped Warden would function.

 

Solo Play - I started off experimenting with various level mobs.  I tested things out on various mobs from 5 levels below to one level above me (45-51).   The play wasnt all that much different than what Ive experienced on live.  The warden handled all of these mobs well for the most part.  Interupts were high, but my focus is no where near maxed out yet, so not sure how this will be when I get it maxed.   Fizzles were high on certain spells mainly because subj. isnt maxed out.   My main change in play style involved undergrowth and seizing vines.  It made game play a bit like a mage.  Root, nuke until it breaks, then engage the mob in melee.  I got hit alot more than I did in live, but it was for less damage, so it seemed to balance out overall in my opinion.   I did not notice a significant increase in down time between fights, but the actual fights themselves were slower over all.

 

     Green mobs ( one down, even, and one up arrow) - Overall and easy fight,  took groups of 1-4 no problem.  The 4 mob fights were definately tougher than live, but there was no threat of being close to dead.  I would say I used about the same amount of power.  AoE worked pretty well for the group mobs, and Id call it one area that we were improved.

 

     Blue mobs ( one down, even and one up arrow) -  Can be taken with no problem.  I didnt go above 2-3 of these at once, and these were down arrows.  I did have some add situations on one ups and could take two of them fairly well.  I had power and health left at the end of the fight. 

 

     White mobs ( all arrow configs) - More of a challenge, but still fairly straight forward.

 

     Yellow mobs ( no arrows) - Definately tougher, i needed more power, my health dropped alot more.  I got interupted more as well as hit more often.  I would definately say that con seems more meaningful from what I could see.  I still think I could have taken a mob two levels above me in about the same manner, but anything above that would have been a close call.  This is a change from live where I routinely solo'd mobs up to 7-8 levels above me without to much trouble.  I'm about positive that I would not be able to do that under these changes. 

 

     Overall solo impression so far?  I can definately still solo, con means more, and anything over one level above me would be a challenge, and anything over two levels im thinking would be a dangerous fight.  Overall I think it was a good change.  The con's seem more meaningful.  

 

I'll discuss the small group experience in the next message.

 

Arathania - 50th Level Warden

[Arathon]

    As far as the small group play, I actually enjoyed it.  I duo'd with my a 50th Monk friend who I have played with since release.  I'm very familiar with his style of play and what It takes to keep him alive.  He is decently equiped, with rare and fabled gear, and prismatic.   We tested out our play against mobs from 5 levels below to 7 levels above.  They definately improved his ability to tank, and mob damage seemed to be toned down so my heals were able to keep him up under the situations that I think I should have been able to keep him up (even with the nerf in the amt healed).    I could add some DPS during the fights, and I had power left after every fight except the reds and a name we tried.

Green and Blue mobs up to triple arrow up ( all Heroic) -  My healing kept him up without to much trouble.  I used cholorplast and spot healed with verdant rapture and Natures Caress ( sylvan waters was only adept one, NC was master).  The fights went smooth.  We took up to groups of 4 without to much trouble.  We were never close to dieing.  The fights are slower, the tank seems to take more hits, but for less damage so the HoT's worked fairly well.  I like the increase in the speed of each hot tick.  The one thing I noticed is you cast alot more often.  Aggro was not an issue, his tuants seemed to work alot better.  I would also say that they toned down how much aggro our heals draw.  I drew aggro a few times, but mainly because I was using ranged to pull, and was doing some dps at the beginning.  The one thing I liked is he could actually get aggro back from me, which has always been a problem on live. 

White Thriple up Heroics - We took these as single mobs.  The fights went well.  The monk was oop at the end of each fight, but I still had more power to deal with heals on any additional adds that might come in.   One thing i noticed is that I was getting interupted even when I was not getting hit.  I have to examine this more to see if i had a dot on me or not, but I found through out the  fighting that I would get interupted when I was not under direct attack.  Again, this could be due to focus being low, or a dot, or some new dynamic thats in the revamp that im not aware of.  I was behind the mobs and in melee range. 

For the heck of it, we tried a triple up heroic mob that was 7 levels above us.  I had primal instinct on him, which has been upgraded, and we thought his offensive skills would be able to hit with consistancy.  I dont think we really had a chance to test that, we got owned fast.   My healing could not keep up with the damage being delt, and I took some nasty AoE's that I could not cure.    All in all, the fight went the way it should have.  I would have been disappointed if a duo could take a triple up 7 levels higher than us.  The fight did give me an idea how we would take hits though.  On the escape, I aggroed an add that was 8 levels higher than me, and he just beat on me without missing.

White triple up Named mob with a double up partner.  - This fight was a tough battle.  The mobs had alot of hp, even the double up and the monk was out of power just killing the double up.  We had the named down to about 80 percent health, the monk had no power and I had 10 percent left when the server went down.   We would not have won this fight as a duo.  Which I agree with, a white triple up named group should take more than a duo to kill.  If we had some dps we could have probably taken him, but it would have been a close fight.

Overall initial small group impression - I like it.  I could keep my tank alive as a solo healer on blue to white triple ups, and groups of four.  Tank taunts seemed improved.  Fights are slower for sure, but not all that much slower.  I didnt notice any increased down time between fights.   From my experience with this small group I think we can keep full groups up without to much trouble as long as the mobs are white.  We did not test this on yellow triple ups.  There is no way we could keep the tank alive solo on a mob 7 levels higher even in a full group.   My monk friend had a positive opinion of our initial experience also, and I think his comment went something along of the lines "I think your definately still a viable healer". 

 

Arathania 

[Tuved2]

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Arathon wrote:

       Please note, im fairly well equiped with prismatic, full rare armor, a couple pieces of fabled gear, and most of my primary live spells at master or adept 3.  I can not account for how a less equiped Warden would function.

 

 

Arathania - 50th Level Warden

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Which makes this feedback barely usefull for the majority.

 

Solo play - Who cares.

Small Group - Who cares.

 

 

Group play in normal to difficult situations plz.

Raid role plz.

[Kedc]

Thank you very much for the summarization.

It is so hard to look at the spells in a bubble and see what the end result would be as this needs to be looked at as a whole. Your post does that for alot of the aspects we need to know. :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by Kedcea on 08-17-2005 07:33 AM

[Tuved2]

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Arathon wrote:

    "I think your definately still a viable healer". 

 

Arathania 

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You can't say we are still a viable healer just because you can solo and keep your duo monk friend alive. Can you keep a hard corps T5 exp grinding group alive deep in Sol Eye with multiple adds?

Do you have an important role on Raids?

 

The rest is fluff.

[Kedc]

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Tuved2 wrote:

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Arathon wrote:

       Please note, im fairly well equiped with prismatic, full rare armor, a couple pieces of fabled gear, and most of my primary live spells at master or adept 3.  I can not account for how a less equiped Warden would function.

 

 

Arathania - 50th Level Warden

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Which makes this feedback barely usefull for the majority.

 

Solo play - Who cares.

Small Group - Who cares.

 

 

Group play in normal to difficult situations plz.

Raid role plz.

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I personally do care about solo and small group play. Granted the other info will also be useful but it does not minimize the importance of the info that has been provided so far. 

This person is trying to provide some insites that will help us understand how these changes will affect us why be unkind?

[Arathon]

You wonder why you dont get feedback from people testing these changes on these forums.  Attitudes like yours Tuved are probably the main reason.  Would you prefer I strip down and test the changes naked? Would you prefer I [Removed for Content] myself so I cant compare to my live experience.  Would you prefer I not qualify my statements of my exp. without noting my equipment and spells? 

I also clearly stated I have 4 hours playing, and I plan on testing more in large groups and raids.   Sorry my input couldnt include every aspect of the game but thats a little hard to do the first night you get access to the changes.   There are numerous aspects to this game, solo, duo, small group, power groups, and raiding.  I dont know about you, but my goal is to be effective at all levels.  

And your comment about everything but raiding being fluff is pretty far off base.  Raiding represents one style of play in this game.  If I chose to post again, it will be based on my style of play.  Which includes solo, duo, group, power group and raiding. 

 

I'm sure other Wardens will post there exp. when they read posts like yours. 

 

Ara

Message Edited by Arathon on 08-17-2005 11:01 AM

[Arathon]

Kedcae  I agree.  Looking at the numbers alone I was not very hopeful I could fulfill any role.  The raw numbers are scary how much they have been changed.  Thats why I'm trying to add some context to my initial tests, then ill get into the numbers more.

Ara

[myount]

Wow,

This is the most information I have seen for Wardens since they started releasing the changes.  I want to first thank you for all the information and really look forward to what kind of role you play in raids.   Lets be realistic, what else does a lvl 50 do but raid? 

Thanks again

 

[Maelakai]

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Arathon wrote:

You wonder why you dont get feedback from people testing these changes on these forums.  Attitudes like yours Tuved are probably the main reason.  Would you prefer I strip down and test the changes naked? Would you prefer I [Removed for Content] myself so I cant compare to my live experience.  Would you prefer I not qualify my statements of my exp. without noting my equipment and spells? 

I also clearly stated I have 4 hours playing, and I plan on testing more in large groups and raids.   Sorry my input couldnt include every aspect of the game but thats a little hard to do the first night you get access to the changes.   There are numerous aspects to this game, solo, duo, small group, power groups, and raiding.  I dont know about you, but my goal is to be effective at all levels.  

And your comment about everything but raiding being fluff is pretty far off base.  Raiding represents one style of play in this game.  If I chose to post again, it will be based on my style of play.  Which includes solo, duo, group, power group and raiding. 

 

I'm sure other Wardens will post there exp. when they read posts like yours. 

 

Ara

Message Edited by Arathon on 08-17-2005 11:01 AM

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Ara,  most of us here certainly do appreciate your feedback, and the time you are taking to test our changes.  I myself am more concerned about raiding and large groups, but that does not mean I am not concerned with solo and small group feedback as well.

 

Thank you for the information man... don't feel unappreciated because of one person

[Unmask]

Thanks for the info you posted.  I'd be interested in seeing how you function in a large group with a shaman or cleric.

By the way, did you use duststorm?

[Unmask]

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myount wrote:

Lets be realistic, what else does a lvl 50 do but raid? 

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I'm thinking we'll be leveling to 60.

[myount]

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Unmasked wrote:

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myount wrote:

Lets be realistic, what else does a lvl 50 do but raid? 

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I'm thinking we'll be leveling to 60.

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For a week or two.  Then will be 60 and raiding.

[Marlamm]

Just wanted to say thanks for posting Arathon. Any feedback at all is greatly appreciated. :smileyhappy: 

[Arathon]

Unforunately, I didnt get to use duststorm yet.  I normally dont use that in routine moving exp groups, I use it in raids.   Hopefully, Ill be getting into some raids in the next couple of days.  My goal tonight is to test out full group functionality. 

[Shennr]

Have you seen the gameplay of any other healers yet or spoken to any of them. I am just a little concerned about balancing myself. We wardens may be able to do the job but if all the other healers can do it better, which I really hope that is not the case, then we might lose out on our chances of any type of grouping what so ever.

I was looking at some of the other healer's boards and it appears that for the most part they were all beefed up a lot in their healing ability. Like the shamans Wards now are phenominal. How do we compare to some others.

[Mor]

Well,  as a level 46 warden in pretty blah gear, and I agree with Arathon's assessment of our soloing ability.   As far as small groups go, I have not been able to test much in the last 2 weeks, but I found it much more difficult to keep up, but it certainly was doable.  My concern is not whether or not we will still be able to play under these circumstances.  I have no doubt that we will.  Heck, look how broke mystics are on live and they can still play under these circumstances.    That doesn't make them not broke.  The bigger concern (for me, at least), is our raid desirability.   That is where the important comparisons to other healing classes takes place.    And, sadly, it appears we will not be as capable as they are unless major changes to the spells on test/beta are implemented.   

[Arathon]

I havent grouped with any other healers yet to really compare.  Ive seen some comparsion information on all healers and from a pure numbers stand point, I'm not pleased.   Some one put together a nice comparision chart with all the app1 spells for all healers.  We seem to have fallen down the HPs list toward the bottom of the rankings.   Raiding is important to me also, my Warden essentially only raids now, so this is an area ill be spending alot of time looking at.    Like I said above, I wanted to get a feel first for how things play before I delve into the numbers.   I know my post above is optomistic about the solo and duo scenarios, but I still have alot of concern about the raid situation, and the power group situation for Wardens.    Hopefully I can post somethign on this in the next day or two depending on how easy it is to get this going.

Arathania

[Shennr]

Ty very much Arathon for your thoughtfulness and the courage to post on these forums. I hope that you may get good data and may your journey be enlightening.

[arielelf]

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your info.  I really appreciate it! Tis a shame some are being sooo rude!

Message Edited by arielelf on 08-17-2005 01:27 PM

[Faithes]

Thank you very much for you hard work, please ignore the rude people I really appretiate the information given =D! 3 cheers for Ara!

[MilkToa]

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate.

[Unmask]

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myount wrote:

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Unmasked wrote:

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myount wrote:

Lets be realistic, what else does a lvl 50 do but raid? 

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I'm thinking we'll be leveling to 60.

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For a week or two.  Then will be 60 and raiding.

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I don't know about that.  I expect that it will take a lot longer to go from 50 to 60 than it did from 40 to 50, just like it took a lot less time to go from 30 to 40 than it did from 40 to 50.

[Chaos0]

Has anyone taken on the Champion on the test server? How do you feel about not being able to solo higher mobs? Is it my imagination or is everyone "ok" with the fact that it takes longer to fight?:smileysurprised: It would appear to me that this would be an excuse do to lack of content and a ploy to make everyone play and pay longer. In other words, more money for Sony:smileymad:. Maybe its just me.:smileysad: One other opinon, the point of the test server is not to see if we are going to like the change, it is to nerf any possible exploit that may be discovered. While I think that is a legit use:smileyhappy:, I think our crys of disappointment and dismay fall upon deaf ears when regarding the "playability" of the character:smileyindifferent:. From what I understand, anything that goes to test will go live. Just look at EQ1:smileymad:. And if you want to feel better about the changes to Wardens, look at what they did to Troubadors.:smileysurprised:

 

One more thing, thanks Arathon for your post.:smileyhappy: But, there is no need to get upset because of someone's reply.:smileysad: People have every right to their opion. :smileytongue: It is only our perspective as to what is rude.:smileysurprised: The comment that everyone is having a fit over appears to have come more from the playing style of one person verses the playing style of another. Type text offers no tone and can only be partically communicated.:smileyindifferent: My advice, though you have asked for none, is dont let it get to you. If you can't take the reply,:smileymad: dont make the post.:smileywink:

Message Edited by Chaos007 on 08-17-2005 07:50 PM

[Swordmage]

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Chaos007 wrote:

One more thing, thanks Arathon for your post.:smileyhappy: But, there is no need to get upset because of someone's reply.:smileysad: People have every right to their opion. :smileytongue: It is only our perspective as to what is rude.:smileysurprised: The comment that everyone is having a fit over appears to have come more from the playing style of one person verses the playing style of another. Type text offers no tone and can only be partically communicated.:smileyindifferent: My advice, though you have asked for none, is dont let it get to you. If you can't take the reply,:smileymad: dont make the post.:smileywink:

Message Edited by Chaos007 on 08-17-2005 07:50 PM

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There is a difference between expressing an opinion and rejecting the usefulness of someone's effort because it doesn't meet one's specific needs. The OP does not need to tolerate rudeness and to say that one should not post if one is not willing to tolerate it is to make rudeness acceptable behavior. It was a particularly inappropriate first response to the OP's effort after all the demands in this forum for high level testers to provide feedback and is a good way to make other testers take the advice of your last sentance and just not post here.

[Treve]

i know the level 50's form the vast majority of the posters here...but maybe keep in mind that there are probably more lower levels here than you may think

 

posting like this are helpful for the lower level's too...it's general enough to give us an impression of how the changes might affect us as well...i was very interested to read how his experience was with solo and small groups

 

i look forward to more info from him about larger groups as well

 

for the people who dumped on the post because it make no mention about raids, your comments made me a little angry...once again, keep in mind that the lower levels (i'm 2 are reading these forums too...and frankly at this point, i don't care about raids at all

 

so get used to the idea please that we're not all level 50's reading these forums...we are interested in the combat changes too

 

to the OP: Thanks for posting something this. It has relevance for all wardens. :smileywink:

[Chaos0]

"There is a difference between expressing an opinion and rejecting the usefulness of someone's effort because it doesn't meet one's specific needs. The OP does not need to tolerate rudeness and to say that one should not post if one is not willing to tolerate it is to make rudeness acceptable behavior. It was a particularly inappropriate first response to the OP's effort after all the demands in this forum for high level testers to provide feedback and is a good way to make other testers take the advice of your last sentance and just not post here."

 

Whatever, fanboy.:smileytongue:

 

 

Message Edited by Chaos007 on 08-18-2005 05:03 PM

[Yinmaren]

Great info. I started my Warden about a week and a half ago and made 23 yesterday. I play with a group of four at all times and have been able to keep them healed in even the most dire of situations.

Very good info, I appreciate it alot. It's also great to hear that monks got a big boost in tanking ability as my main is a monk as well.

Thanks for the info.

[Arielle Nightshade]

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myount wrote:

Wow,

This is the most information I have seen for Wardens since they started releasing the changes.  I want to first thank you for all the information and really look forward to what kind of role you play in raids.   Lets be realistic, what else does a lvl 50 do but raid? 

Thanks again

 

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You'll be level 50 for ..what?  maybe 3 days?  sure you might continue to raid, but it's short sighted to think that's all anyone wants to know.

Raiding is not now nor will it continue to be my game focus (that is if I continue to play), and I don't think it's the majority of Wardens on this board's focus either.   As with the rest of the game, raiding will continue to be a Guild activity, but most Guilds will focus on getting everyone leveled for the next bunch of challenges, I think.

So...solo and group viability IS important information. 

Ara, I appreciate the time you took for your comments..they are most helpful. 

[Tuved2]

Here's the final comparison http://mail.thetemplars.net/lines_beta3.htm

 

 

By the way if you haven't noticed, we're screwed.