A (humbled) Inquisitor

Istaril · 06-20-2006, 02:20 AM

I'm afraid I've been somewhat humbled.As a 70 Inquisitor, fairly new to the class (Started in February with PvP - a crash course in inquisition, and I think I aced it), and 50AA (Int line, 8pts in spell cast reduction, 1 in final, and sta line, down to crit heals), I just today bought the last adept III I needed to complete my collection (all spells adept III or higher). I have 14 Master Is, 1 Master II... a (as of today as well) [Removed for Content] out ride, and some decent, if not splendid, gear (Mark of Awakening, Godking Sceptre, Hool'oh hat, etc). I was feeling 'king-of-the-world', wandering around town, and my connection, for once, wasn't lagging. I was ready to do something amazing on the little lab-clearing run (We've had *abysmal* luck with relic drops. 8 runs no drops, of the last 9).Our only two healers present, myself and a Defiler (70, some 42 AA, 2 masters, 2 adept IIIs (wards), and a sceptre/awakening/relicbp). The parser comes up... and we're both what I would consider excellent healers. He's finally got a few new tricks he wants to show off aa wise as well... so I'm looking forward to the first few parses. Well, despite my chain casting (mana is never a poblem) of spells in what I deem the 'right' order (Preheals, Obedience master, Convict master, (occasionally debase master), fanatical vengeance adept III, droag master's, compelled repentance (depending on mob) master II, (somtimes HO starter), affliction master, flames adept... ) and careful timing of my fanaticism with bard cacaphony (as well as my beautiful critting great maul), as well as diving recovery with debilitate... but no matter how I toy around with my spells, I will consistantly come up behind the Defiler for dps. This suprised me quite a bit... but it turns out his pet is cranking out some 160+ dps, much to my chagrin. I guess it's really benefiting from the Mt buffs - cacaphony, my fanaticism etc. With even DPS, he outheals me about four-fold. Sure, he's benefiting from my debuffs/divine recovery/fanaticisim more than I am from his spells... but still.Of course, I can't really win the heal battles - not only are they more draining on the manapool, but the only way I can every parse numbers like his are when I'm healing people that don't need to be healed, just for the extra numbers... and he'll tripple my damage in such cases. A large part of that is due to the way wards soak up damage 'first', and therefore steal my chance to heal, even though the heals might be up - but it still leaves me doing alot less.Now don't get me wrong - I enjoy my class and I realize parses tell only a part of the story, and I was probably doing a greater part of the curing (it's lab, ya know), as well I should be (thanks to convert), and debuffing more (although I wouldn't consider my debuffs superior to a defilers', I know I use mine more than he does) Sure, I wish verdict dealt parseable damage too.. but - I still feel that the gap between our two classes in raiding situations is... well... large. Sure, my Master I auras help around a fair bit, but he can make similar arguments about portent, his str buffs.... the list goes on.The obvious question - is there something I'm doing wrong? I can't think of anything... but who knows. Maybe there's a trick I'm missing? Or can I really expect - in raid situations - to be this far outclassed by someone out-spelled, even-geared, and even-skilled as myself. If not, where and when does it change? I figured Lab was a good test - a 9 man setup where the lines between 'raid mob' and 'exp mob' somewhat blur, and cures/debuffs pick up importance over standard exp mobs. In addition, because the mobs are multiple, my reactives tend to do better than some of the other raid encounters.(It's not that none of this has every struck me before - but it's that I know that I'm at one of my true peaks now - a height of my power, as it were, and I'm beginning to see just how 'high' that height actually is)

Edit:

For completedness sake, a list of my masters:Debuffs: Convict, Forced Obedience, DebaseHeals: Fanatical Healing, Suffering PenanceDamage: Affliction, Compelled repentance (master II), Heretic's DestinyBuffs: Pious, Act of Conviction, Consecrated AuraOther: Detain, Absolution, Disorientation

Message Edited by Istaril on 06-19-2006 03:36 PM

MrHell · 06-20-2006, 04:01 AM

The reason for his out healing you is that Wards trigger before Reactives, and if the ward is still up the target takes no damage and the reactive doesnt trigger.

Istaril · 06-20-2006, 04:19 PM

I realize this - I mentioned it above as well (that wards trigger first). But that's no consolation, really - it means that my heals aren't necessary in a huge majority of the cases (because the wards are up, and the tank's hitpoints are therefore not dropping at all). Now looking back at last night's late post, I come across as pouty SMILEY

. I should rephrase all of the above to the following; Are inquisitors destined to be out-dps'd and out healed, generally out-contributed, on raids by other healer classes? Does this 'backup healer' mentality fade away later in the tier (some of the further-in raids?). Or is this backup healer feeling just a product of my incompetence in some way?

Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-2006 05:19 AM

One eye'd Jack · 06-20-2006, 06:19 PM

Istaril wrote:
I realize this - I mentioned it above as well (that wards trigger first). But that's no consolation, really - it means that my heals aren't necessary in a huge majority of the cases (because the wards are up, and the tank's hitpoints are therefore not dropping at all).Now looking back at last night's late post, I come across as pouty .I should rephrase all of the above to the following; Are inquisitors destined to be out-dps'd and out healed, generally out-contributed, on raids by other healer classes? Does this 'backup healer' mentality fade away later in the tier (some of the further-in raids?). Or is this backup healer feeling just a product of my incompetence in some way?
Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-200605:19 AM

I'm not a hardcore raiding Inq by any real means, but I think what you're seeing is more structural difference than any ability deficit. Inqs are the friend of all dps in raids. It doesn't mean backup healer, but it means perhaps group 2 vs mt group... In a 9 person raid, well, maybe "second" healer (we are all there for backup i guess) and utility too? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing you in game, but you have a reputation for being very good and that's something even on naggy where we are so sparse. I think trying to compare ourselves to shaman is a tough thing to really work out. We bring so much to the table for dps classes, things that won't show on your parsers. We are a grouping class, support, one of those you notice for the improvements they bring even if you have no real idea what it is they're doing (think troubador lol).If the wards are doing their job, then you can focus on debuffing the crap out of the mob for a bit, speeding up the melee/cast times, using some of your crowd control etc. It's not a glory job I admit. As a warden I was used to being in the mt group on raids and feeling very effective. I think I'm better at inq, have a slightly better understanding of all the abilities, but it's just not as gratifying in that look what I can do way I was used to. We are a small guild, but when we go "epic-killin" as we are calling it now, it's a lot more complex trying to keep everyone alive. So I get that feeling you mean... Still, Inqs are just overall cooler and more versatile imo... I'll let the raiding guys from other servers answer to what you need to do when, but really, anyone who's putting in this much effort needs to give himself a break... Oh and pvp more (with groups of course) to learn to think fast, and watch how fast shaman die 1v1 in pvp compared to us, that may make you feel better :smileywink:

Istaril · 06-20-2006, 07:23 PM

Given the 'evil classes only', and our current shortage of wardens - well, there aren't too many other options for a MT healer. I understand that fundamentally our heals are secondary to wards, for their ability to lessen dps spikes is massive, but I'd consider our utilities fairly evenly matched. Sure, I buff more net hp (with aura), but his str buffs to my dps buffs, his slows to my reduce stats/skills, his resist buffs to mine, his mit buff = mine, - utility winds up a fairly even bargain. Slightly different twists, but overall not a huge gap between us. I can certainly see why I'm useful on raids (Convict is a great spell, and there are alot of other good support-spells I have), but aside from HP buffs (And in rare resist cases), I have trouble seeing why one would choose one for a main tank group. My group Mit/Sta buff becomes pretty irrelevant, even at master I, as the mit doesn't stack with Defiler buffs (and the sta means nothing past cap). My group reactives/heals are ocasionally useful, but not so much as a wardens or furie's would be. Perhaps my real problem is that I've always considered the archetype idea to mean all classes of that archtype can fullfill their primary role equally well, but in different ways. I can definitley see the reasons to use certain tanks vs certain mobs - and having used Bruisers, Guardians and Berserkers to maximum effect, I think the system worked there. Seeing a defiler as a raid healer triple my healing and double my dps, with a 7th the masters... shatters that illusion for healers. I'd have thought, originally, that an inquisitor is better at healing mit tanks against mutiple mobs, a defiler at healing avoidance tanks or vs single mobs with large spike dps... but it seems like defilers are the better in both (raid) cases. PvP always makes me feel better... but not due to any actual *killing*, just the 2 minute fight against some cocky sonofa who thinks he can 1 on 1 me, to see him run off into the distance, with his tail between his legs. Anyway, long story short - I still thoroughly enjoy my class, and I'll obviously keep pushing the limits, as pvp tends to do, of it. I'll rock Nizaria again tonight, with a killer group once again, and feel better about my class in general... but I'll still be, I guess, disillusioned somewhat. Champion Istaril, Emissary of .

Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-2006 08:41 AM

Kadurm · 06-20-2006, 07:41 PM

Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives, my typical set up on any raid that we do is to have 1 Warder,1 Hot and myself on reactive duty on the MT, everyone else is covering him with Direct heals. Keeping the reactives and wards and HoTs up are more just a safe buffer for the direct heal chain. And by putting myself in the reactive spot, that gives me more time to work on the debuffs and DPS bonuses we are known for.

I know reactives are nothing much or will they ever save the raid from wiping, but every bit helps. And I also know that the wards and HoTs will keep my reactives from firing which is why I can debuff more.

This is just something that we are playing around with on the raids and we do adjust it for each encounter, but this way I know I have just about every ground covered on the runs.

So no, to the OP you are not doing anything wrong, just at the end game of things, We Inquisitors will shine the darkness of Lucan as more than just a plate priest.

scivias · 06-21-2006, 01:07 AM

About the dps thingy.. bow your head down.. see that boots? Those boots are made fpr kicking. Forget about spells for damage, pack a 2h-staff, consecrate and fanaticism and start whacking. you'll be suprised.

Fon · 06-21-2006, 01:53 AM

Yep. ^

With DPS buffs on yourself, and something like the Grizzlefazzle 2hander and the part of the STA AA line that increases meleecrit chance, it's easy to hit 350+dps just meleeing.

Aside from that, I sort of look at my Inquisitor as one big group DPS buff with the added bonus of being able to cure dots and groupheal. I've got the master of Fanaticism, and it's a nice feeling when group 3 and 4 are saying "Gimme Geezo gimme gimme gimme" eheheh.

Yeah, some of the time the increased DPS is moot. That x4 mob would have gone down anyway, just 20 seconds later.

But sometimes, in the case of mobs with nasty AOEs on timers, or like HarlaDar where stuff needs to die fast. 10-20 seconds of less fighting could theoretically save the day.

Times are different from when the most important healer in the raid was the cleric in the MT group. Somebody's got to be in the dps group to cure off that 2k/tick arcane dot. Who better than the class with great dps buffs and a fast-casting groupheal?

It's not terribly glamorous, and doesn't show up in the parse, but it's an important role.

auvii · 06-21-2006, 02:39 AM

Sadly we are back up healers. That is all we will ever be until SOE actually does something. We have horrible dps compared to the other healers and most of all, we are Clerics with less usefull heals then at least one other healing class. We should have the best heals no questions asked, Clerics are and always have been THE healer. We have never had good dps, to cover for this we have had our exceptional ability to heal, now we dont have that. Back up heals FTW!

Formangenavn · 06-21-2006, 02:51 PM

Kadurm wrote:

Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives,

If MT is hit then wards absorbs first, any spill over will then first be healed by reactive and then if there is anything left HoT will heal. How much HoT will heal depends on how long it takes the rest of the healers to bring MT back to full health with DHs.

So the order goes: Wards then reactives and then HoTs. I am not complaining about this, but it seemed to me like you thought it worked differntly.

Kadurm · 06-21-2006, 03:48 PM

Formangenavn wrote:

Kadurm wrote:

Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives,

If MT is hit then wards absorbs first, any spill over will then first be healed by reactive and then if there is anything left HoT will heal. How much HoT will heal depends on how long it takes the rest of the healers to bring MT back to full health with DHs.

So the order goes: Wards then reactives and then HoTs. I am not complaining about this, but it seemed to me like you thought it worked differntly.

Aye, the way It looked after I typed it seemed I was listing them in order of function, just more or less wanted to list all 3 of the heal types. Just too lazy to edit....hehehe

Demoniac · 06-21-2006, 06:04 PM

I have to agree with all of you. we sit out of the mt group. our Group reactive is completely useless againest the big AE. yes, it has very long cast timer, yes it has very long recast timer too. which is very bad. that's not the problem. the problem is you got hit by 5k damage and you are telling me you heal for 600?

I do have to agree with this. HoT is way greater than reactive. it doesn't matter single or group.some big mobs, they hit the tank like 5k-6k each time, and his avoidance is working well : ) that makes our reactive is the way low than hot.

Well a lot of people or devs might tell me what's the prove? I don't agree with you. what's your prove?

let's say any epic mobs. any of them, any mobs, a mt group fury and a mt templar they do heal the same in the healing parser. ( not very common though, furies always beat templars that's the truth, no matter who you are, you can't cover the truth ) if you open your log, the templar's reactive is mostly 30-50% of his totally heal. the fury's hot is about 70-90% of his total heal. see what I mean?

I dunno how those devs think about it, we choose cleric caz we wanna be a master healer. ok, all the healers are healing =. fine, fine with me honestly, a durid got more living ability than we do. they can do group invis( fury ), they evac ( warden ), they got SoW. what cleircs can do? teleport a guy back to the bind point? underwater breathing? lol you must be kiding me... this is not even funny, I don't feel like this is called " = "

last word, I love my inquisitor so much, played her over a year since the game lauched, 270 in-game play days, if I have a chance to reroll the class, I will get a fury or a warden.

Lig · 06-22-2006, 08:40 PM

Demoniac wrote:

I have to agree with all of you. we sit out of the mt group. our Group reactive is completely useless againest the big AE. yes, it has very long cast timer, yes it has very long recast timer too. which is very bad. that's not the problem. the problem is you got hit by 5k damage and you are telling me you heal for 600?

I do have to agree with this. HoT is way greater than reactive. it doesn't matter single or group.some big mobs, they hit the tank like 5k-6k each time, and his avoidance is working well : ) that makes our reactive is the way low than hot.

Well a lot of people or devs might tell me what's the prove? I don't agree with you. what's your prove?

let's say any epic mobs. any of them, any mobs, a mt group fury and a mt templar they do heal the same in the healing parser. ( not very common though, furies always beat templars that's the truth, no matter who you are, you can't cover the truth ) if you open your log, the templar's reactive is mostly 30-50% of his totally heal. the fury's hot is about 70-90% of his total heal. see what I mean?

I dunno how those devs think about it, we choose cleric caz we wanna be a master healer. ok, all the healers are healing =. fine, fine with me honestly, a durid got more living ability than we do. they can do group invis( fury ), they evac ( warden ), they got SoW. what cleircs can do? teleport a guy back to the bind point? underwater breathing? lol you must be kiding me... this is not even funny, I don't feel like this is called " = "

last word, I love my inquisitor so much, played her over a year since the game lauched, 270 in-game play days, if I have a chance to reroll the class, I will get a fury or a warden.

First off reactive mitigate damage... that is what they basically do. So it's not so much that he is being healed for 600 it's that he takes 4,400 dmg. Now I understand that he took 5k and then was healed but if he was going to be one shotted then it doesn't matter anyways. No we are not MT group healers, but mainly that is because we buff DPS. Inq's should be in the stabby group. Believe me when 3 of your stabby group members have 100% DPS mod it makes a big difference... after the front load dmg is gone throw on that fanatasicm for the other stabby in your group and you have more DPS than god. If you can get a raid wide DPS of 12k there isn't anything you can't handle with the proper strat.

Inq's are incredibly important in the DPS group... you just have to know your role and be ok with it SMILEY .

Demoniac · 06-22-2006, 10:13 PM

Ligur1 wrote:

First off reactive mitigate damage... that is what they basically do. So it's not so much that he is being healed for 600 it's that he takes 4,400 dmg. Now I understand that he took 5k and then was healed but if he was going to be one shotted then it doesn't matter anyways. No we are not MT group healers, but mainly that is because we buff DPS. Inq's should be in the stabby group. Believe me when 3 of your stabby group members have 100% DPS mod it makes a big difference... after the front load dmg is gone throw on that fanatasicm for the other stabby in your group and you have more DPS than god. If you can get a raid wide DPS of 12k there isn't anything you can't handle with the proper strat.

Inq's are incredibly important in the DPS group... you just have to know your role and be ok with it .

100% agree : ) I always group with another 5 scouts in the group. they doing like 800 -2100 dps mostly likely even the dirge is doing 800 dps. they love my dps buff and proc buff very much.

edit : ps, 4 Aura + the proc is awesome for those theives eek. I mean scouts. if we can buff more str and crushing/slashing etc that will be cool.

Message Edited by Demoniac on 06-22-2006 11:16 AM

Cosmos · 06-23-2006, 09:58 AM

Ok, I am a raiding Inquisitor in a very high end raid guild (Halcyon Affinity on Antonia Bayle). I never sit out of a raid-- never. The dps fights over who gets me in their group and whine when someone else gets me first. I have done it all -- I have been in the MT group, the caster group, the secondary tank group and, of course, the melee group. When there is no templar available, I go into a MT group or a ST group.

I look at my character like this: A big part of how I heal is through the debuffs that I throw on the mob. The faster it dies and the less it hits for-- the less healing overall that is needed. Also, I am a fast healer. With my aa line in Int, I can really throw down the heals when I need to. Also I have tremendous power regen. This makes me a very effective long term healer.

Reactives are not meant to be main heals. They are meant to be emergency measures-- they hopefully keep the person alive long enough to get a big heal on them. In a melee dps group they can make a big difference in keeping that guy up that draws agro--giving you enough time to switch to him and get a heal off in time to keep the dps rolling.

I'm sure you know all this... you seem to have a good handle on your spells and your class in general. Think of an Inquisitor as a class that brings a bunch of really interesting twists to time-honored cleric spells. Those little extras are what make Inquisitors stand out from the pack-- Verdict, Fanaticism, Forced Obedience, Act of Conviction. THAT is what makes us different from the rest of the healers-- not how much dps we can do or whether our reactives go off before a ward.

I know this-- if I was not in the guild, they would seek out another Inquisitor to take my place because I am a needed class. Because you are in a PvP atmosphere, you are trying to make your character do the job of 2 classes-- Inquisitor and Templar. Yes its tough, but that is what makes PvP challenging. I would welcome the challenge as it makes you a better player overall when you rise to meet it.

Mysteri, 70 Inquisitor, Halcyon Affinity, Antonia Bayle

One eye'd Jack · 06-23-2006, 05:39 PM

Cosmos wrote:

Ok, I am a raiding Inquisitor in a very high end raid guild (Halcyon Affinity on Antonia Bayle). I never sit out of a raid-- never. The dps fights over who gets me in their group and whine when someone else gets me first. I have done it all -- I have been in the MT group, the caster group, the secondary tank group and, of course, the melee group. When there is no templar available, I go into a MT group or a ST group.

I look at my character like this: A big part of how I heal is through the debuffs that I throw on the mob. The faster it dies and the less it hits for-- the less healing overall that is needed. Also, I am a fast healer. With my aa line in Int, I can really throw down the heals when I need to. Also I have tremendous power regen. This makes me a very effective long term healer.

Reactives are not meant to be main heals. They are meant to be emergency measures-- they hopefully keep the person alive long enough to get a big heal on them. In a melee dps group they can make a big difference in keeping that guy up that draws agro--giving you enough time to switch to him and get a heal off in time to keep the dps rolling.

I'm sure you know all this... you seem to have a good handle on your spells and your class in general. Think of an Inquisitor as a class that brings a bunch of really interesting twists to time-honored cleric spells. Those little extras are what make Inquisitors stand out from the pack-- Verdict, Fanaticism, Forced Obedience, Act of Conviction. THAT is what makes us different from the rest of the healers-- not how much dps we can do or whether our reactives go off before a ward.

I know this-- if I was not in the guild, they would seek out another Inquisitor to take my place because I am a needed class. Because you are in a PvP atmosphere, you are trying to make your character do the job of 2 classes-- Inquisitor and Templar. Yes its tough, but that is what makes PvP challenging. I would welcome the challenge as it makes you a better player overall when you rise to meet it.

Mysteri, 70 Inquisitor, Halcyon Affinity, Antonia Bayle

Awesome post, makes me want to play my Inq more again... I think the class is a total blast and very challenging to do well. When the Inq was in her 50s, I started a warden in pvp as well, and frankly it got boring and I stopped in the mid-20s for now. I'm learning to be a brigand for real pvp killing fun, but again, it's not near the challenge, and I'll go back to my main after this lovely killing vacation... We aren't raiders, but I'd love the chance to try it more with an Inq, I think the stuff I can do for dps is sick and fun fun fun.

Istaril · 06-23-2006, 06:34 PM

I've been a pouty little inquisitor SMILEY

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=107737 I suppose that even though I knew all the above, and having it restated helped, I still fundamentally feel that Inquisitors, which, with reactives, are assumed (or, in my case at least, were assumed) to be excellent healers for players with high mit actively being hit. Our reactive, as a 'primary means of healing' in groups, becomes a backup heal, and a poor one at that - and utterly useless, of course, on targets not actively being hit. On a 'traditional' raid, there are one or two targets reactives work on... and they work badly at that. I suppose in a week or so I'll resign myself to seeing that my hard-earned master I reactive really won't do all that much, but for now, my mind is racing, and determined to fight the (good? ) fight.

Message Edited by Istaril on 06-23-2006 07:34 AM

Israphil · 06-27-2006, 06:08 PM

You will be out-healed until you get into an AE fight. In an ae fight in a melee group, if you keep up group react and pop off group heals you will top the heal charts, and will still be contributing major dps to your group. Also, a defiler can't pull any dps in an ae fight while they're healing (their pet dies easy), but we can (2h staves don't die until we do). It's situational, and remember also: we are running awesome debuffs on the mobs at all times, and have group cure arcane, which comes in handy in a lot of fights. Defilers have neither really. Finally, defilers have spells that cost health instead of power to cast, which is very efficient...until you run into an ae fight where your priest health cant be dropping lest they get cooked. Then, your inquest line will prove vastly superior in it's incredible power regen capabilities (toss it on a swashie or monk, and watch your power pool never empty). No, we definately bring a lot to the table.

ericshaitan · 06-27-2006, 07:10 PM

Inquisitors rock.......... Yea i [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and complain all the time about how we are the worst healing class and how we can't buff our own power like every other healer can but......... It all comes down to the player. If you are good at what you do you will heal well. You will be at the top of the top of the charts and will blown any other mediocure or noob healer away. So basically, BE THE MAN YOU WUSS

deftones · 06-28-2006, 09:56 AM

Hi there Istaril. I play a 70 inquiz (50 aa), and most of my masters. I'm in a high end raid guild, and would consider myself an expert in the Inquisitor class. Here is the advice I would like to give you:

1. Don't worry about the parsing... I know everyone in your guild probably likes to use the parse to show off how uber they are, but in reality parsing isn't part of the game. From what you wrote it looks like you have the right idea on what spells to cast...(however i would question fanatical vengence and compelled repentence as priority spells). I'll put some tips in later on maxing your personal dps if that is what your really interested in.

2. Your raid role is going to change drastically depending on what mobs your fighting: In lab for instance when your going up against reavers and ravagers you should be spam curing trauma to remove the dispatch and debilitate. Alot of templars like to do it (especially the ones in the main tank group) but with convert it really should be your job. On shorter fights or trash with low hp just basically throw heals and keep everyone in the raid alive ... you want to think about it as saving people's armour for the later Uber mobs that you will want the raid to be full strength for. For the big bad fights that don't ae (High Priest in Lyceum for instance) you want to hide your reactives behind wards, debuff (convict and debase) and direct heal. For AE fights your job is keeping your group up and curing.

3. Your role is going to change depending on your raid and group make up. If your raid has 6 healers then great, your gonna be able to focus on debuffing and dpsing more, if not well then your prolly gonna be healing more. If your group consists mostly of the melee dps (ideally if the raid leader knows what's going on you will be in one of these groups) then Fanaticism is going to be your best friend. Just because your not parsing off of Fanaticism doesn't mean your not responsible for that dps. Basically I use this rule...(if

deftones · 06-28-2006, 10:13 AM

Sorry about the cut off there....

... What i was going to say is I use the following rule (If I don't know what to do next I hit turn Fanaticism on until I have somthing to do or someone needs a heal.) Get good at your toggles and you will be popping it on and off alot during raid fights. Alot of the time I throw my dots and debuffs, throw on fanaticism until they wear off and reapply.... obviously if someone needs a heal you need to stop early and throw heals. As far as the AA abilities go I cannot stress casting time modifies enough... the faster you cast the more options you have.. also you will be suprised how much your dps will increase with faster casting. Throwing 3 spells in between heals vs throwing 1 or 2 ... i know it sounds small but trust me it matters.

Lastly, as far as your healing parse goes.... If your the only reactive healer in the raid you should make it a rule that at no point should the main tank not have Suffering Penance on them wether it be hitten behind a ward or what not... cast it every time. Use your direct heals as needed depending on what your fighting. You may not parse like a defiler or a warden, but like I said before parsing isn't part of the game. You have a job and if your doing your job well the parse doesn't mean jack squat. And ya your going to notice your healing parse goes up if you cast faster as well.

Istaril · 06-28-2006, 12:43 PM

I have Cast time reduction maxed, and divine recovery, and crit heals maxed. I *am* the curer, as I mentioned in the first post - the faster cast times and convert ally make me the ideal choice.As for Vengeance line - I've found it extremely worthwhile in groups, slightly less so on raids - but still fairly mana/time efficient dps. Repentance less so - but certain mobs I can count on using all three procs, so I only use it then.As for toggling Fanatcism on and off, it's, as I'm a main-tank-group healer, not always as safe a bet as it might be, but I still use it regularly enough (especially just before a cacaphony call, or something similar). As for the raid leader knowing what's going on, he certainly does, but as we play FP on a pvp server, Templars are unavailable, and we're currently desperately hunting down wardens to complete our healing team. My master I reactive is kept up on the main tank at all times (on bosses, anyway, I'm less diligent on trash), and the group one for preheals.I don't worry too much about the parses, except that they constantly remind me of the inferiority of reactives over other types of heals. I know amounts healed and damage tell a small part of the story - but there's still valuable data there to be collected, if you understand the mechanics. They can only be used on 1 target (well, as many as 3, on some raids ) - the ones actively taking damage, whilst HoT and Wards, in that order, can be used on plenty of other targets, protecting the target (healing on termination) or healing them outright. The inherent speed/spikes of damage on raids negates a large part of the efficiency of reactives, and on top of that wards will soak up such a huge majority of the hits - that little reactive feels like a very weak contingency plan. Sure, my direct heals now cast a bit faster than most - but can't be claimed to be anywhere near as nice as a defiler's, for example. I'll pay 180 hp for the extra heal, thank you!

LokiHellsson · 07-05-2006, 11:10 PM

Seems to me, with the possible exception of a Fury, looking for significant DPS contribution to a group or raid from healers is just plain silly. If you're solo'ing, well, then I suppose DPS becomes important, but again, you're probably better off running a Bruiser or a Sorcerer if you want to do DPS and solo.

Demoniac · 07-06-2006, 08:16 PM

deftones35 wrote:

I totally agree with this guy. I would say this is an expert, except 1 point. I don't really agree with the parser part. I mean we do can get in the dps parser like a fury. during the raid i can do 600-1000 dps pretty much, speically for single target tons of hp mobs and no AoE :smileyindifferent: ( also depends on your group setting like you got a troubador or no, I can't get in the mage group :smileysad: ) my highest dps so far is 1072, it's the second groups mobs in lyceum. hmm... well, this is a healer class, if you can handle the heal part, that's more than enough. if you can do more dps, that's a bonus for the raid, isn't it.

for the healing parser, we normally don't stay in the mt group, it because our Pious is completely useless ( completely I have to repeat ) it doesn't give anything to the tank +sta = +0 hp ( well you have to understand, both bard troubador and dirge buff STA, shaman buff STA, any tank even he's level 60 and no fable gear he should be maxed STA already. no matter 700, 650 or 600 it's the samething ) during a raid, the MT take the most damage, so that's why MT healers always get the top in the parser... we still can get in the parser if the mob has very heavy AE.

anyways.. it's not really important for any parser as long as people can do the job well. parser is only for someone auto-follow, they only join the raid for dkp those people kinna suck.

06-20-2006, 04:19 PM	#3
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	I realize this - I mentioned it above as well (that wards trigger first). But that's no consolation, really - it means that my heals aren't necessary in a huge majority of the cases (because the wards are up, and the tank's hitpoints are therefore not dropping at all). Now looking back at last night's late post, I come across as pouty . I should rephrase all of the above to the following; Are inquisitors destined to be out-dps'd and out healed, generally out-contributed, on raids by other healer classes? Does this 'backup healer' mentality fade away later in the tier (some of the further-in raids?). Or is this backup healer feeling just a product of my incompetence in some way? Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-2006 05:19 AM

06-20-2006, 06:19 PM	#4
One eye'd Jack Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 48	Istaril wrote: I realize this - I mentioned it above as well (that wards trigger first). But that's no consolation, really - it means that my heals aren't necessary in a huge majority of the cases (because the wards are up, and the tank's hitpoints are therefore not dropping at all).Now looking back at last night's late post, I come across as pouty .I should rephrase all of the above to the following; Are inquisitors destined to be out-dps'd and out healed, generally out-contributed, on raids by other healer classes? Does this 'backup healer' mentality fade away later in the tier (some of the further-in raids?). Or is this backup healer feeling just a product of my incompetence in some way? Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-200605:19 AM I'm not a hardcore raiding Inq by any real means, but I think what you're seeing is more structural difference than any ability deficit. Inqs are the friend of all dps in raids. It doesn't mean backup healer, but it means perhaps group 2 vs mt group... In a 9 person raid, well, maybe "second" healer (we are all there for backup i guess) and utility too? I haven't had the pleasure of seeing you in game, but you have a reputation for being very good and that's something even on naggy where we are so sparse. I think trying to compare ourselves to shaman is a tough thing to really work out. We bring so much to the table for dps classes, things that won't show on your parsers. We are a grouping class, support, one of those you notice for the improvements they bring even if you have no real idea what it is they're doing (think troubador lol).If the wards are doing their job, then you can focus on debuffing the crap out of the mob for a bit, speeding up the melee/cast times, using some of your crowd control etc. It's not a glory job I admit. As a warden I was used to being in the mt group on raids and feeling very effective. I think I'm better at inq, have a slightly better understanding of all the abilities, but it's just not as gratifying in that look what I can do way I was used to. We are a small guild, but when we go "epic-killin" as we are calling it now, it's a lot more complex trying to keep everyone alive. So I get that feeling you mean... Still, Inqs are just overall cooler and more versatile imo... I'll let the raiding guys from other servers answer to what you need to do when, but really, anyone who's putting in this much effort needs to give himself a break... Oh and pvp more (with groups of course) to learn to think fast, and watch how fast shaman die 1v1 in pvp compared to us, that may make you feel better :smileywink: __________________ 70 Inquis, 32 brigand - Nagafen Lepia, 60 Warden - NeriaKithicor Jinks says something in Lucanic that you don't understand.

06-21-2006, 01:07 AM	#7
scivias Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	About the dps thingy.. bow your head down.. see that boots? Those boots are made fpr kicking. Forget about spells for damage, pack a 2h-staff, consecrate and fanaticism and start whacking. you'll be suprised. __________________

06-21-2006, 01:53 AM	#8
Fon Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	Yep. ^ With DPS buffs on yourself, and something like the Grizzlefazzle 2hander and the part of the STA AA line that increases meleecrit chance, it's easy to hit 350+dps just meleeing. Aside from that, I sort of look at my Inquisitor as one big group DPS buff with the added bonus of being able to cure dots and groupheal. I've got the master of Fanaticism, and it's a nice feeling when group 3 and 4 are saying "Gimme Geezo gimme gimme gimme" eheheh. Yeah, some of the time the increased DPS is moot. That x4 mob would have gone down anyway, just 20 seconds later. But sometimes, in the case of mobs with nasty AOEs on timers, or like HarlaDar where stuff needs to die fast. 10-20 seconds of less fighting could theoretically save the day. Times are different from when the most important healer in the raid was the cleric in the MT group. Somebody's got to be in the dps group to cure off that 2k/tick arcane dot. Who better than the class with great dps buffs and a fast-casting groupheal? It's not terribly glamorous, and doesn't show up in the parse, but it's an important role. __________________ Geezo Sneezo Retired Officer of The Last Word

06-21-2006, 02:39 AM	#9
auvii Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 38	Sadly we are back up healers. That is all we will ever be until SOE actually does something. We have horrible dps compared to the other healers and most of all, we are Clerics with less usefull heals then at least one other healing class. We should have the best heals no questions asked, Clerics are and always have been THE healer. We have never had good dps, to cover for this we have had our exceptional ability to heal, now we dont have that. Back up heals FTW! __________________ Auvii 72 Inquisitor Unrest - Fabled

06-20-2006, 02:20 AM	#1
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	I'm afraid I've been somewhat humbled.As a 70 Inquisitor, fairly new to the class (Started in February with PvP - a crash course in inquisition, and I think I aced it), and 50AA (Int line, 8pts in spell cast reduction, 1 in final, and sta line, down to crit heals), I just today bought the last adept III I needed to complete my collection (all spells adept III or higher). I have 14 Master Is, 1 Master II... a (as of today as well) [Removed for Content] out ride, and some decent, if not splendid, gear (Mark of Awakening, Godking Sceptre, Hool'oh hat, etc). I was feeling 'king-of-the-world', wandering around town, and my connection, for once, wasn't lagging. I was ready to do something amazing on the little lab-clearing run (We've had abysmal luck with relic drops. 8 runs no drops, of the last 9).Our only two healers present, myself and a Defiler (70, some 42 AA, 2 masters, 2 adept IIIs (wards), and a sceptre/awakening/relicbp). The parser comes up... and we're both what I would consider excellent healers. He's finally got a few new tricks he wants to show off aa wise as well... so I'm looking forward to the first few parses. Well, despite my chain casting (mana is never a poblem) of spells in what I deem the 'right' order (Preheals, Obedience master, Convict master, (occasionally debase master), fanatical vengeance adept III, droag master's, compelled repentance (depending on mob) master II, (somtimes HO starter), affliction master, flames adept... ) and careful timing of my fanaticism with bard cacaphony (as well as my beautiful critting great maul), as well as diving recovery with debilitate... but no matter how I toy around with my spells, I will consistantly come up behind the Defiler for dps. This suprised me quite a bit... but it turns out his pet is cranking out some 160+ dps, much to my chagrin. I guess it's really benefiting from the Mt buffs - cacaphony, my fanaticism etc. With even DPS, he outheals me about four-fold. Sure, he's benefiting from my debuffs/divine recovery/fanaticisim more than I am from his spells... but still.Of course, I can't really win the heal battles - not only are they more draining on the manapool, but the only way I can every parse numbers like his are when I'm healing people that don't need to be healed, just for the extra numbers... and he'll tripple my damage in such cases. A large part of that is due to the way wards soak up damage 'first', and therefore steal my chance to heal, even though the heals might be up - but it still leaves me doing alot less.Now don't get me wrong - I enjoy my class and I realize parses tell only a part of the story, and I was probably doing a greater part of the curing (it's lab, ya know), as well I should be (thanks to convert), and debuffing more (although I wouldn't consider my debuffs superior to a defilers', I know I use mine more than he does) Sure, I wish verdict dealt parseable damage too.. but - I still feel that the gap between our two classes in raiding situations is... well... large. Sure, my Master I auras help around a fair bit, but he can make similar arguments about portent, his str buffs.... the list goes on.The obvious question - is there something I'm doing wrong? I can't think of anything... but who knows. Maybe there's a trick I'm missing? Or can I really expect - in raid situations - to be this far outclassed by someone out-spelled, even-geared, and even-skilled as myself. If not, where and when does it change? I figured Lab was a good test - a 9 man setup where the lines between 'raid mob' and 'exp mob' somewhat blur, and cures/debuffs pick up importance over standard exp mobs. In addition, because the mobs are multiple, my reactives tend to do better than some of the other raid encounters.(It's not that none of this has every struck me before - but it's that I know that I'm at one of my true peaks now - a height of my power, as it were, and I'm beginning to see just how 'high' that height actually is) Edit: For completedness sake, a list of my masters:Debuffs: Convict, Forced Obedience, DebaseHeals: Fanatical Healing, Suffering PenanceDamage: Affliction, Compelled repentance (master II), Heretic's DestinyBuffs: Pious, Act of Conviction, Consecrated AuraOther: Detain, Absolution, Disorientation Message Edited by Istaril on 06-19-2006 03:36 PM

06-20-2006, 04:01 AM	#2
MrHell Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 62	The reason for his out healing you is that Wards trigger before Reactives, and if the ward is still up the target takes no damage and the reactive doesnt trigger.

06-20-2006, 07:23 PM	#5
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	Given the 'evil classes only', and our current shortage of wardens - well, there aren't too many other options for a MT healer. I understand that fundamentally our heals are secondary to wards, for their ability to lessen dps spikes is massive, but I'd consider our utilities fairly evenly matched. Sure, I buff more net hp (with aura), but his str buffs to my dps buffs, his slows to my reduce stats/skills, his resist buffs to mine, his mit buff = mine, - utility winds up a fairly even bargain. Slightly different twists, but overall not a huge gap between us. I can certainly see why I'm useful on raids (Convict is a great spell, and there are alot of other good support-spells I have), but aside from HP buffs (And in rare resist cases), I have trouble seeing why one would choose one for a main tank group. My group Mit/Sta buff becomes pretty irrelevant, even at master I, as the mit doesn't stack with Defiler buffs (and the sta means nothing past cap). My group reactives/heals are ocasionally useful, but not so much as a wardens or furie's would be. Perhaps my real problem is that I've always considered the archetype idea to mean all classes of that archtype can fullfill their primary role equally well, but in different ways. I can definitley see the reasons to use certain tanks vs certain mobs - and having used Bruisers, Guardians and Berserkers to maximum effect, I think the system worked there. Seeing a defiler as a raid healer triple my healing and double my dps, with a 7th the masters... shatters that illusion for healers. I'd have thought, originally, that an inquisitor is better at healing mit tanks against mutiple mobs, a defiler at healing avoidance tanks or vs single mobs with large spike dps... but it seems like defilers are the better in both (raid) cases. PvP always makes me feel better... but not due to any actual killing, just the 2 minute fight against some cocky sonofa who thinks he can 1 on 1 me, to see him run off into the distance, with his tail between his legs. Anyway, long story short - I still thoroughly enjoy my class, and I'll obviously keep pushing the limits, as pvp tends to do, of it. I'll rock Nizaria again tonight, with a killer group once again, and feel better about my class in general... but I'll still be, I guess, disillusioned somewhat. Champion Istaril, Emissary of . Message Edited by Istaril on 06-20-2006 08:41 AM

06-20-2006, 07:41 PM	#6
Kadurm Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 424	Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives, my typical set up on any raid that we do is to have 1 Warder,1 Hot and myself on reactive duty on the MT, everyone else is covering him with Direct heals. Keeping the reactives and wards and HoTs up are more just a safe buffer for the direct heal chain. And by putting myself in the reactive spot, that gives me more time to work on the debuffs and DPS bonuses we are known for. I know reactives are nothing much or will they ever save the raid from wiping, but every bit helps. And I also know that the wards and HoTs will keep my reactives from firing which is why I can debuff more. This is just something that we are playing around with on the raids and we do adjust it for each encounter, but this way I know I have just about every ground covered on the runs. So no, to the OP you are not doing anything wrong, just at the end game of things, We Inquisitors will shine the darkness of Lucan as more than just a plate priest.

06-21-2006, 02:51 PM	#10
Formangenavn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 334	Kadurm wrote: Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives, If MT is hit then wards absorbs first, any spill over will then first be healed by reactive and then if there is anything left HoT will heal. How much HoT will heal depends on how long it takes the rest of the healers to bring MT back to full health with DHs. So the order goes: Wards then reactives and then HoTs. I am not complaining about this, but it seemed to me like you thought it worked differntly.

06-21-2006, 03:48 PM	#11
Kadurm Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 424	Formangenavn wrote: Kadurm wrote: Given with Wards and HoTs over reactives, If MT is hit then wards absorbs first, any spill over will then first be healed by reactive and then if there is anything left HoT will heal. How much HoT will heal depends on how long it takes the rest of the healers to bring MT back to full health with DHs. So the order goes: Wards then reactives and then HoTs. I am not complaining about this, but it seemed to me like you thought it worked differntly. Aye, the way It looked after I typed it seemed I was listing them in order of function, just more or less wanted to list all 3 of the heal types. Just too lazy to edit....hehehe

06-21-2006, 06:04 PM	#12
Demoniac Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 489	I have to agree with all of you. we sit out of the mt group. our Group reactive is completely useless againest the big AE. yes, it has very long cast timer, yes it has very long recast timer too. which is very bad. that's not the problem. the problem is you got hit by 5k damage and you are telling me you heal for 600? I do have to agree with this. HoT is way greater than reactive. it doesn't matter single or group.some big mobs, they hit the tank like 5k-6k each time, and his avoidance is working well : ) that makes our reactive is the way low than hot. Well a lot of people or devs might tell me what's the prove? I don't agree with you. what's your prove? let's say any epic mobs. any of them, any mobs, a mt group fury and a mt templar they do heal the same in the healing parser. ( not very common though, furies always beat templars that's the truth, no matter who you are, you can't cover the truth ) if you open your log, the templar's reactive is mostly 30-50% of his totally heal. the fury's hot is about 70-90% of his total heal. see what I mean? I dunno how those devs think about it, we choose cleric caz we wanna be a master healer. ok, all the healers are healing =. fine, fine with me honestly, a durid got more living ability than we do. they can do group invis( fury ), they evac ( warden ), they got SoW. what cleircs can do? teleport a guy back to the bind point? underwater breathing? lol you must be kiding me... this is not even funny, I don't feel like this is called " = " last word, I love my inquisitor so much, played her over a year since the game lauched, 270 in-game play days, if I have a chance to reroll the class, I will get a fury or a warden.

06-22-2006, 08:40 PM	#13
Lig General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 191	Demoniac wrote: I have to agree with all of you. we sit out of the mt group. our Group reactive is completely useless againest the big AE. yes, it has very long cast timer, yes it has very long recast timer too. which is very bad. that's not the problem. the problem is you got hit by 5k damage and you are telling me you heal for 600? I do have to agree with this. HoT is way greater than reactive. it doesn't matter single or group.some big mobs, they hit the tank like 5k-6k each time, and his avoidance is working well : ) that makes our reactive is the way low than hot. Well a lot of people or devs might tell me what's the prove? I don't agree with you. what's your prove? let's say any epic mobs. any of them, any mobs, a mt group fury and a mt templar they do heal the same in the healing parser. ( not very common though, furies always beat templars that's the truth, no matter who you are, you can't cover the truth ) if you open your log, the templar's reactive is mostly 30-50% of his totally heal. the fury's hot is about 70-90% of his total heal. see what I mean? I dunno how those devs think about it, we choose cleric caz we wanna be a master healer. ok, all the healers are healing =. fine, fine with me honestly, a durid got more living ability than we do. they can do group invis( fury ), they evac ( warden ), they got SoW. what cleircs can do? teleport a guy back to the bind point? underwater breathing? lol you must be kiding me... this is not even funny, I don't feel like this is called " = " last word, I love my inquisitor so much, played her over a year since the game lauched, 270 in-game play days, if I have a chance to reroll the class, I will get a fury or a warden. First off reactive mitigate damage... that is what they basically do. So it's not so much that he is being healed for 600 it's that he takes 4,400 dmg. Now I understand that he took 5k and then was healed but if he was going to be one shotted then it doesn't matter anyways. No we are not MT group healers, but mainly that is because we buff DPS. Inq's should be in the stabby group. Believe me when 3 of your stabby group members have 100% DPS mod it makes a big difference... after the front load dmg is gone throw on that fanatasicm for the other stabby in your group and you have more DPS than god. If you can get a raid wide DPS of 12k there isn't anything you can't handle with the proper strat. Inq's are incredibly important in the DPS group... you just have to know your role and be ok with it .

06-22-2006, 10:13 PM	#14
Demoniac Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 489	Ligur1 wrote: First off reactive mitigate damage... that is what they basically do. So it's not so much that he is being healed for 600 it's that he takes 4,400 dmg. Now I understand that he took 5k and then was healed but if he was going to be one shotted then it doesn't matter anyways. No we are not MT group healers, but mainly that is because we buff DPS. Inq's should be in the stabby group. Believe me when 3 of your stabby group members have 100% DPS mod it makes a big difference... after the front load dmg is gone throw on that fanatasicm for the other stabby in your group and you have more DPS than god. If you can get a raid wide DPS of 12k there isn't anything you can't handle with the proper strat. Inq's are incredibly important in the DPS group... you just have to know your role and be ok with it . 100% agree : ) I always group with another 5 scouts in the group. they doing like 800 -2100 dps mostly likely even the dirge is doing 800 dps. they love my dps buff and proc buff very much. edit : ps, 4 Aura + the proc is awesome for those theives eek. I mean scouts. if we can buff more str and crushing/slashing etc that will be cool. Message Edited by Demoniac on 06-22-2006 11:16 AM

06-23-2006, 09:58 AM	#15
Cosmos Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Ok, I am a raiding Inquisitor in a very high end raid guild (Halcyon Affinity on Antonia Bayle). I never sit out of a raid-- never. The dps fights over who gets me in their group and whine when someone else gets me first. I have done it all -- I have been in the MT group, the caster group, the secondary tank group and, of course, the melee group. When there is no templar available, I go into a MT group or a ST group. I look at my character like this: A big part of how I heal is through the debuffs that I throw on the mob. The faster it dies and the less it hits for-- the less healing overall that is needed. Also, I am a fast healer. With my aa line in Int, I can really throw down the heals when I need to. Also I have tremendous power regen. This makes me a very effective long term healer. Reactives are not meant to be main heals. They are meant to be emergency measures-- they hopefully keep the person alive long enough to get a big heal on them. In a melee dps group they can make a big difference in keeping that guy up that draws agro--giving you enough time to switch to him and get a heal off in time to keep the dps rolling. I'm sure you know all this... you seem to have a good handle on your spells and your class in general. Think of an Inquisitor as a class that brings a bunch of really interesting twists to time-honored cleric spells. Those little extras are what make Inquisitors stand out from the pack-- Verdict, Fanaticism, Forced Obedience, Act of Conviction. THAT is what makes us different from the rest of the healers-- not how much dps we can do or whether our reactives go off before a ward. I know this-- if I was not in the guild, they would seek out another Inquisitor to take my place because I am a needed class. Because you are in a PvP atmosphere, you are trying to make your character do the job of 2 classes-- Inquisitor and Templar. Yes its tough, but that is what makes PvP challenging. I would welcome the challenge as it makes you a better player overall when you rise to meet it. Mysteri, 70 Inquisitor, Halcyon Affinity, Antonia Bayle

06-23-2006, 05:39 PM	#16
One eye'd Jack Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 48	Cosmos wrote: Ok, I am a raiding Inquisitor in a very high end raid guild (Halcyon Affinity on Antonia Bayle). I never sit out of a raid-- never. The dps fights over who gets me in their group and whine when someone else gets me first. I have done it all -- I have been in the MT group, the caster group, the secondary tank group and, of course, the melee group. When there is no templar available, I go into a MT group or a ST group. I look at my character like this: A big part of how I heal is through the debuffs that I throw on the mob. The faster it dies and the less it hits for-- the less healing overall that is needed. Also, I am a fast healer. With my aa line in Int, I can really throw down the heals when I need to. Also I have tremendous power regen. This makes me a very effective long term healer. Reactives are not meant to be main heals. They are meant to be emergency measures-- they hopefully keep the person alive long enough to get a big heal on them. In a melee dps group they can make a big difference in keeping that guy up that draws agro--giving you enough time to switch to him and get a heal off in time to keep the dps rolling. I'm sure you know all this... you seem to have a good handle on your spells and your class in general. Think of an Inquisitor as a class that brings a bunch of really interesting twists to time-honored cleric spells. Those little extras are what make Inquisitors stand out from the pack-- Verdict, Fanaticism, Forced Obedience, Act of Conviction. THAT is what makes us different from the rest of the healers-- not how much dps we can do or whether our reactives go off before a ward. I know this-- if I was not in the guild, they would seek out another Inquisitor to take my place because I am a needed class. Because you are in a PvP atmosphere, you are trying to make your character do the job of 2 classes-- Inquisitor and Templar. Yes its tough, but that is what makes PvP challenging. I would welcome the challenge as it makes you a better player overall when you rise to meet it. Mysteri, 70 Inquisitor, Halcyon Affinity, Antonia Bayle Awesome post, makes me want to play my Inq more again... I think the class is a total blast and very challenging to do well. When the Inq was in her 50s, I started a warden in pvp as well, and frankly it got boring and I stopped in the mid-20s for now. I'm learning to be a brigand for real pvp killing fun, but again, it's not near the challenge, and I'll go back to my main after this lovely killing vacation... We aren't raiders, but I'd love the chance to try it more with an Inq, I think the stuff I can do for dps is sick and fun fun fun. __________________ 70 Inquis, 32 brigand - Nagafen Lepia, 60 Warden - NeriaKithicor Jinks says something in Lucanic that you don't understand.

06-23-2006, 06:34 PM	#17
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	I've been a pouty little inquisitor http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=107737 I suppose that even though I knew all the above, and having it restated helped, I still fundamentally feel that Inquisitors, which, with reactives, are assumed (or, in my case at least, were assumed) to be excellent healers for players with high mit actively being hit. Our reactive, as a 'primary means of healing' in groups, becomes a backup heal, and a poor one at that - and utterly useless, of course, on targets not actively being hit. On a 'traditional' raid, there are one or two targets reactives work on... and they work badly at that. I suppose in a week or so I'll resign myself to seeing that my hard-earned master I reactive really won't do all that much, but for now, my mind is racing, and determined to fight the (good? ) fight. Message Edited by Istaril on 06-23-2006 07:34 AM

06-27-2006, 06:08 PM	#18
Israphil Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 258	You will be out-healed until you get into an AE fight. In an ae fight in a melee group, if you keep up group react and pop off group heals you will top the heal charts, and will still be contributing major dps to your group. Also, a defiler can't pull any dps in an ae fight while they're healing (their pet dies easy), but we can (2h staves don't die until we do). It's situational, and remember also: we are running awesome debuffs on the mobs at all times, and have group cure arcane, which comes in handy in a lot of fights. Defilers have neither really. Finally, defilers have spells that cost health instead of power to cast, which is very efficient...until you run into an ae fight where your priest health cant be dropping lest they get cooked. Then, your inquest line will prove vastly superior in it's incredible power regen capabilities (toss it on a swashie or monk, and watch your power pool never empty). No, we definately bring a lot to the table. __________________ Less newb, more pwn.

06-27-2006, 07:10 PM	#19
ericshaitan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	Inquisitors rock.......... Yea i [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and complain all the time about how we are the worst healing class and how we can't buff our own power like every other healer can but......... It all comes down to the player. If you are good at what you do you will heal well. You will be at the top of the top of the charts and will blown any other mediocure or noob healer away. So basically, BE THE MAN YOU WUSS __________________

06-28-2006, 09:56 AM	#20
deftones Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2	Hi there Istaril. I play a 70 inquiz (50 aa), and most of my masters. I'm in a high end raid guild, and would consider myself an expert in the Inquisitor class. Here is the advice I would like to give you: 1. Don't worry about the parsing... I know everyone in your guild probably likes to use the parse to show off how uber they are, but in reality parsing isn't part of the game. From what you wrote it looks like you have the right idea on what spells to cast...(however i would question fanatical vengence and compelled repentence as priority spells). I'll put some tips in later on maxing your personal dps if that is what your really interested in. 2. Your raid role is going to change drastically depending on what mobs your fighting: In lab for instance when your going up against reavers and ravagers you should be spam curing trauma to remove the dispatch and debilitate. Alot of templars like to do it (especially the ones in the main tank group) but with convert it really should be your job. On shorter fights or trash with low hp just basically throw heals and keep everyone in the raid alive ... you want to think about it as saving people's armour for the later Uber mobs that you will want the raid to be full strength for. For the big bad fights that don't ae (High Priest in Lyceum for instance) you want to hide your reactives behind wards, debuff (convict and debase) and direct heal. For AE fights your job is keeping your group up and curing. 3. Your role is going to change depending on your raid and group make up. If your raid has 6 healers then great, your gonna be able to focus on debuffing and dpsing more, if not well then your prolly gonna be healing more. If your group consists mostly of the melee dps (ideally if the raid leader knows what's going on you will be in one of these groups) then Fanaticism is going to be your best friend. Just because your not parsing off of Fanaticism doesn't mean your not responsible for that dps. Basically I use this rule...(if

06-28-2006, 10:13 AM	#21
deftones Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2	Sorry about the cut off there.... ... What i was going to say is I use the following rule (If I don't know what to do next I hit turn Fanaticism on until I have somthing to do or someone needs a heal.) Get good at your toggles and you will be popping it on and off alot during raid fights. Alot of the time I throw my dots and debuffs, throw on fanaticism until they wear off and reapply.... obviously if someone needs a heal you need to stop early and throw heals. As far as the AA abilities go I cannot stress casting time modifies enough... the faster you cast the more options you have.. also you will be suprised how much your dps will increase with faster casting. Throwing 3 spells in between heals vs throwing 1 or 2 ... i know it sounds small but trust me it matters. Lastly, as far as your healing parse goes.... If your the only reactive healer in the raid you should make it a rule that at no point should the main tank not have Suffering Penance on them wether it be hitten behind a ward or what not... cast it every time. Use your direct heals as needed depending on what your fighting. You may not parse like a defiler or a warden, but like I said before parsing isn't part of the game. You have a job and if your doing your job well the parse doesn't mean jack squat. And ya your going to notice your healing parse goes up if you cast faster as well.

06-28-2006, 12:43 PM	#22
Istaril Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 147	I have Cast time reduction maxed, and divine recovery, and crit heals maxed. I am the curer, as I mentioned in the first post - the faster cast times and convert ally make me the ideal choice.As for Vengeance line - I've found it extremely worthwhile in groups, slightly less so on raids - but still fairly mana/time efficient dps. Repentance less so - but certain mobs I can count on using all three procs, so I only use it then.As for toggling Fanatcism on and off, it's, as I'm a main-tank-group healer, not always as safe a bet as it might be, but I still use it regularly enough (especially just before a cacaphony call, or something similar). As for the raid leader knowing what's going on, he certainly does, but as we play FP on a pvp server, Templars are unavailable, and we're currently desperately hunting down wardens to complete our healing team. My master I reactive is kept up on the main tank at all times (on bosses, anyway, I'm less diligent on trash), and the group one for preheals.I don't worry too much about the parses, except that they constantly remind me of the inferiority of reactives over other types of heals. I know amounts healed and damage tell a small part of the story - but there's still valuable data there to be collected, if you understand the mechanics. They can only be used on 1 target (well, as many as 3, on some raids ) - the ones actively taking damage, whilst HoT and Wards, in that order, can be used on plenty of other targets, protecting the target (healing on termination) or healing them outright. The inherent speed/spikes of damage on raids negates a large part of the efficiency of reactives, and on top of that wards will soak up such a huge majority of the hits - that little reactive feels like a very weak contingency plan. Sure, my direct heals now cast a bit faster than most - but can't be claimed to be anywhere near as nice as a defiler's, for example. I'll pay 180 hp for the extra heal, thank you!

07-05-2006, 11:10 PM	#23
LokiHellsson Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 157	Seems to me, with the possible exception of a Fury, looking for significant DPS contribution to a group or raid from healers is just plain silly. If you're solo'ing, well, then I suppose DPS becomes important, but again, you're probably better off running a Bruiser or a Sorcerer if you want to do DPS and solo.

07-06-2006, 08:16 PM	#24
Demoniac Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 489	deftones35 wrote: I totally agree with this guy. I would say this is an expert, except 1 point. I don't really agree with the parser part. I mean we do can get in the dps parser like a fury. during the raid i can do 600-1000 dps pretty much, speically for single target tons of hp mobs and no AoE :smileyindifferent: ( also depends on your group setting like you got a troubador or no, I can't get in the mage group :smileysad: ) my highest dps so far is 1072, it's the second groups mobs in lyceum. hmm... well, this is a healer class, if you can handle the heal part, that's more than enough. if you can do more dps, that's a bonus for the raid, isn't it. for the healing parser, we normally don't stay in the mt group, it because our Pious is completely useless ( completely I have to repeat ) it doesn't give anything to the tank +sta = +0 hp ( well you have to understand, both bard troubador and dirge buff STA, shaman buff STA, any tank even he's level 60 and no fable gear he should be maxed STA already. no matter 700, 650 or 600 it's the samething ) during a raid, the MT take the most damage, so that's why MT healers always get the top in the parser... we still can get in the parser if the mob has very heavy AE. anyways.. it's not really important for any parser as long as people can do the job well. parser is only for someone auto-follow, they only join the raid for dkp those people kinna suck.