Inquisitors and Raids

[menelaus109]

Im curious what other people think of Inquisitor raid utility and healing, Ive found its becoming increasingly difficult to justify a place in a raid, recent changes have improved DPS but havent really affected raidingIn terms of healing i find that i am extremely good at healing a single target, the faster recasts of our spells more than offset the slightly lower healing amount, however in terms of group healing we compare very poorly i often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs and find it difficult to heal a whole group in a short space of time, id trade my M2 large heal for an M2 group heal straight awayIn terms of utility we get some decent buffs, the Aura line is nice along with the group proc line, my normal setup would be aura on 4 people and act of conviction up. The problem is that classes such as coercer can buff DPS much more than us (74% i believe) have several nice procs and regens, I rarely use pious or fanatics faith in raids. The only debuff i use is forced obidience, debase and convict are pretty poor compared to other debuffs, even from other healers and seem to have a negligible effect. Other types of utility spells like root, stifle and fear are useless against epics targetsMy suggestions to improve raiding inquisitors would be:An additional group heal of some sort, maybe a reactive placed on a mob which had a chance to proc a group heal whenever the target made a succesful hit, either spell or melee. In order to keep it balanced have it cost either power over time to maintain or add a significant recast timer to itFor example a 5% chance to proc a group heal of 400-600 whenever the mob made a succesful attack, costs 40 every 6 seconds to maintainAll the other healing classes are either superior group healers (druids) or have some extra type of group heal outside the normal 5 healing spells. Templars get a group heal when a mob dies, Shammies get various pets that place a regenerating ward on the group.  I dont believe this spell would be overpowering and the power over time elemant means that it couldnt be used in conjunction with yaulp without causing significant power lossChange Zealotry to remove the stun part but increase the reuse timer and boost the effect it has on reuse timers, the stun element of this spell makes it pretty useless, most melee DPS groups already have significant Haste already. By increasing the reuse timer to 5 minutes it could be used once per named fight as a temporary, small, short term boost to DPS  without becoming an overpowering permanent group buffIncrease the damage slightly on the conviction line, as it stands this spell adds around 30-60 DPS to each group member which seems a little low (maybe more with higher int, i normally raid with 202) increase the damage by 15% to make Inq a more viable additionVerdict, someone posted a suggestion a while ago about changing verdict into a effect similar to the curse of insanity which seems pretty interesting, as far as raids are concerned i never use this spell, the last 2% of a mobs HP are burnt down to quickly to make it  worthwhile, id happily trade this spell for a form of reactive curse that does damage based on power a mobs usesIm not trying to get other classes nerfed just bring Inq upto par in certain aspects

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-04-2006 04:01 PM

[MokiCh]

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menelaus109 wrote:

Im curious what other people think of Inquisitor raid utility and healing, Ive found its becoming increasingly difficult to justify a place in a raid, recent changes have improved DPS but havent really affected raidingIn terms of healing i find that i am extremely good at healing a single target, the faster recasts of our spells more than offset the slightly lower healing amount, however in terms of group healing we compare very poorly i often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs and find it difficult to heal a whole group in a short space of time, id trade my M2 large heal for an M2 group heal straight away I have no problems with my heal spells in raids. Our group healing capability isn't as good as, say, a warden, because they can cast a group regen that will keep on ticking while our group reactive just sits there. It's nothing to really get upset over though, we can handle ourselves just fine.In terms of utility we get some decent buffs, the Aura line is nice along with the group proc line, my normal setup would be aura on 4 people and act of conviction up. The problem is that classes such as coercer can buff DPS much more than us (74% i believe) have several nice procs and regens, I rarely use pious or fanatics faith in raids. Upgrade Pious and Fanatics Faith as high as you can afford and for gods sake use them. Pious buffs STA and mitigation (which helps you survive AOE), Fanatics buffs resists. Resists especially are important in raiding T7, and when you fight a mob like Hurricanus you'll want an Inquisitor or some other magic resist buffer in your group. If any one group buff has to go, its always going to be Act of Conviction, but really most of the time you can just keep it on and use Hallowed Aura on two other people and be fine.The only debuff i use is forced obidience, debase and convict are pretty poor compared to other debuffs, even from other healers and seem to have a negligible effect. Other types of utility spells like root, stifle and fear are useless against epics targets Man what are you smoking? Master 1 Convict debuffs all resists by 600ish. Sure it's no Dispatch, but that's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good spell to use with a pretty low power cost and it stays up near forever so most of the time you can cast and forget about it. You will not have to refresh it more than 2 or 3 times at most.My suggestions to improve raiding inquisitors would be:An additional group heal of some sort, maybe a reactive placed on a mob which had a chance to proc a group heal whenever the target made a succesful hit, either spell or melee. In order to keep it balanced have it cost either power over time to maintain or add a significant recast timer to itFor example a 5% chance to proc a group heal of 400-600 whenever the mob made a succesful attack, costs 40 every 6 seconds to maintainAll the other healing classes are either superior group healers (druids) or have some extra type of group heal outside the normal 5 healing spells. Templars get a group heal when a mob dies, Shammies get various pets that place a regenerating ward on the group.  I dont believe this spell would be overpowering and the power over time elemant means that it couldnt be used in conjunction with yaulp without causing significant power loss I can heal group damage just fine. Could it be better? Sure, but if you upgrade your group heal to at least ad3 you should be able to manage. Also, we get convert which is an extra 200+ heal on any beneficial spell we cast, so you get a bigger group heal right there. Some healers are better at group healing, others aren't. It's like the single target vs group damage argument. Can't have both.Change Zealotry to remove the stun part but increase the reuse timer and boost the effect it has on reuse timers, the stun element of this spell makes it pretty useless, most melee DPS groups already have significant Haste already. By increasing the reuse timer to 5 minutes it could be used once per named fight as a temporary, small, short term boost to DPS  without becoming an overpowering permanent group buff Zealotry doesn't stun anymore, and hasn't stunned for quite some time now. It stifles, and you can easily toggle it off if need be. Also, it doesn't have any effect on reuse timers, that would be Fanaticism.Increase the damage slightly on the conviction line, as it stands this spell adds around 30-60 DPS to each group member which seems a little low (maybe more with higher int, i normally raid with 202) increase the damage by 15% to make Inq a more viable addition No idea what you're on about here. The Conviction line is our magic/mental/divine resist buff and it doesn't do damage. If you're talking about Act of Conviction, then meh. Higher damage would be nice, but I'd prefer to get Verdict worked over than to have a spell messed with that's essentially fine.Verdict, someone posted a suggestion a while ago about changing verdict into a effect similar to the curse of insanity which seems pretty interesting, as far as raids are concerned i never use this spell, the last 2% of a mobs HP are burnt down to quickly to make it  worthwhile, id happily trade this spell for a form of reactive curse that does damage based on power a mobs uses Verdict needs to be looked at for sure, but it's not a make or break spell for raiding. In it's current form it's saved my butt several times, but it would be nice to have it be useful more often than every two weeks or so.Im not trying to get other classes nerfed just bring Inq upto par in certain aspects

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-04-2006 04:01 PM

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[Kadurm]

Not much else I could add to what you said Moki. I seem to heal just fine as well. You just have to find out the proper use of the direct and reactive heals. When we raid, if there are more than 1 Inquisitor, I put one on group reactive and the other on directs. The templars can either switch out between reactives with the inquisitor or direct heals, which can be more useful than the reactives anyway. And always have the HoT and Wards going as that is just a more or less steady line of healing all the time.

But other than a couple of minor things within the spell line and such. I find the Inquisitor an oft times vital member to any raid.

[KnoxExplosi]

"I often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs" "I rarely use pious or fanatics faith in raids" Could this be your problem? Clerics aren't as good at group healing as other classes but we can get by in most cases. And good call on using Convert.  I had to try to heal through a nasty AE tonight and I was the only healer in my group so it was busting my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Might try that next time and hope my mana bar can handle it. :smileyvery-happy:

[menelaus109]

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MokiChan wrote:

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menelaus109 wrote:

Im curious what other people think of Inquisitor raid utility and healing, Ive found its becoming increasingly difficult to justify a place in a raid, recent changes have improved DPS but havent really affected raidingIn terms of healing i find that i am extremely good at healing a single target, the faster recasts of our spells more than offset the slightly lower healing amount, however in terms of group healing we compare very poorly i often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs and find it difficult to heal a whole group in a short space of time, id trade my M2 large heal for an M2 group heal straight away I have no problems with my heal spells in raids. Our group healing capability isn't as good as, say, a warden, because they can cast a group regen that will keep on ticking while our group reactive just sits there. It's nothing to really get upset over though, we can handle ourselves just fine.I disagree here, look at the other healers spell lines. They all seem to have some form of group heal as well as the group regen/reactive/ward. Templars get the group heal on death, Shamans get the pets with the self regenerating ward and Druids group heal is the best anyway. Whereas as for healing a group we have 1 spell which, although it has a shord recast heals for a small amount.In terms of utility we get some decent buffs, the Aura line is nice along with the group proc line, my normal setup would be aura on 4 people and act of conviction up. The problem is that classes such as coercer can buff DPS much more than us (74% i believe) have several nice procs and regens, I rarely use pious or fanatics faith in raids. Upgrade Pious and Fanatics Faith as high as you can afford and for gods sake use them. Pious buffs STA and mitigation (which helps you survive AOE), Fanatics buffs resists. Resists especially are important in raiding T7, and when you fight a mob like Hurricanus you'll want an Inquisitor or some other magic resist buffer in your group. If any one group buff has to go, its always going to be Act of Conviction, but really most of the time you can just keep it on and use Hallowed Aura on two other people and be fine.Pious and Fanatics faith are M1, all my spells between 57-70 are M1 bar 2. The stamina component of pious is useful but doesnt really add that many HP, the Mitigation part is only handy against Melee AE not magical ones, and people are rarely caught by Melee AE which tend to be short ranged. Ive taken down Hurricanus several times and never used either. We are the melee DPS group healer, as far as im concerned we should be buffing DPS as much as possible and that means 4 Hallowed Aura and Act of convictionThe only debuff i use is forced obidience, debase and convict are pretty poor compared to other debuffs, even from other healers and seem to have a negligible effect. Other types of utility spells like root, stifle and fear are useless against epics targets Man what are you smoking? Master 1 Convict debuffs all resists by 600ish. Sure it's no Dispatch, but that's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good spell to use with a pretty low power cost and it stays up near forever so most of the time you can cast and forget about it. You will not have to refresh it more than 2 or 3 times at most.I have it at M1 and it reduces resists by 634, compared with the 3k that brigands debuff by it compares pretty poorly, we normally have 2 brigands chaining it when raidingMy suggestions to improve raiding inquisitors would be:An additional group heal of some sort, maybe a reactive placed on a mob which had a chance to proc a group heal whenever the target made a succesful hit, either spell or melee. In order to keep it balanced have it cost either power over time to maintain or add a significant recast timer to itFor example a 5% chance to proc a group heal of 400-600 whenever the mob made a succesful attack, costs 40 every 6 seconds to maintainAll the other healing classes are either superior group healers (druids) or have some extra type of group heal outside the normal 5 healing spells. Templars get a group heal when a mob dies, Shammies get various pets that place a regenerating ward on the group.  I dont believe this spell would be overpowering and the power over time elemant means that it couldnt be used in conjunction with yaulp without causing significant power loss I can heal group damage just fine. Could it be better? Sure, but if you upgrade your group heal to at least ad3 you should be able to manage. Also, we get convert which is an extra 200+ heal on any beneficial spell we cast, so you get a bigger group heal right there. Some healers are better at group healing, others aren't. It's like the single target vs group damage argument. Can't have both.Have you tried using Convert when raiding? the power drain is too high to make it worthwhile, by the time a group cure and 2-3 group heals have been cast its half your power gone, even with inquest upChange Zealotry to remove the stun part but increase the reuse timer and boost the effect it has on reuse timers, the stun element of this spell makes it pretty useless, most melee DPS groups already have significant Haste already. By increasing the reuse timer to 5 minutes it could be used once per named fight as a temporary, small, short term boost to DPS  without becoming an overpowering permanent group buff Zealotry doesn't stun anymore, and hasn't stunned for quite some time now. It stifles, and you can easily toggle it off if need be. Also, it doesn't have any effect on reuse timers, that would be Fanaticism.Shouldnt post when tired, meant fanaticism and the stifle part. Its a nice spell admittedly but doesnt really compare with other classes marquee spell removing the stifle part and increasing the reuse timer would make it a more useful abilityIncrease the damage slightly on the conviction line, as it stands this spell adds around 30-60 DPS to each group member which seems a little low (maybe more with higher int, i normally raid with 202) increase the damage by 15% to make Inq a more viable addition No idea what you're on about here. The Conviction line is our magic/mental/divine resist buff and it doesn't do damage. If you're talking about Act of Conviction, then meh. Higher damage would be nice, but I'd prefer to get Verdict worked over than to have a spell messed with that's essentially fine.Same as before, shouldnt post when tired. Act of conviction, as the melee group healer its our only spell that affects group DPS, i think it should be a little more effective but im not holding out much hopeVerdict, someone posted a suggestion a while ago about changing verdict into a effect similar to the curse of insanity which seems pretty interesting, as far as raids are concerned i never use this spell, the last 2% of a mobs HP are burnt down to quickly to make it  worthwhile, id happily trade this spell for a form of reactive curse that does damage based on power a mobs uses Verdict needs to be looked at for sure, but it's not a make or break spell for raiding. In it's current form it's saved my butt several times, but it would be nice to have it be useful more often than every two weeks or so.Agreed, ive never had it work for me on a raid, the closest ive got is seeing the graphic above the mobs head then its dead anyway. Im not trying to get other classes nerfed just bring Inq upto par in certain aspects

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-04-2006 04:01 PM

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[Charism II]

I typed a long reply like Moki but it wiped out becuz of some stupid HTML problem.....

Anyways, what I want to advise is to try explore more with your inquisitor, test more different combinations cuz there is NO formular in playing a class, it's all depend on the combinations of the classes in your group and raid party, I am afraid you have not yet play to the full potential of your inq.

I see my weaknesses but I know our strengths too, I use our strength A LOT, such as Convict and Verdict, I am really surprised that any inq found they are less useful!  :p

I enjoy playing mine alll along and I can't say I have played the full potential of our class but at least I have all my T6 & T7 spells at Adept 3 or above (11 T7 are M1) with decent equipments.

In short, get your spells to the highest grade you can, i would say, at least Adept 3 to be useful; also your equipments.  Then try different combinations in different situations.  Without these basises, I assure you, you won't enjoy our class and think inq sux which is not true.

FYI, I found myself best in Melee dps group in raids!

 

We are good healers, we are great dps enhancers and we are fantastic debuffers

 

[Demoniac]

Point 1, I agree with Mokichan.

and templar are defensive healer. they always heal better than us caz we do more damage. but also our group direct heal is kinna good too. if you got our group direct direct heal master, that one heals like 1300-1600+ with prismatic III ( if you can't keep the proc up, please try drink some wines during the raid, it will increase at least double chance to proc any beneficial spells ). this spell can crits for 2k heal. with convert you can do like 1800 heal at least. and it only has 6 seconds recast.  our group reactive is like a joke, like Mokichan said

I have no problems with my heal spells in raids. Our group healing capability isn't as good as, say, a warden, because they can cast a group regen that will keep on ticking while our group reactive just sits there. It's nothing to really get upset over though, we can handle ourselves just fine.

point 2. I agree with both of you lol

Pious, if you have any other type healers in the group, you can just cancel it, switch it Aura. Act of Conviction is a nice spell, I always have it up. Fanatics faith is fine, if the mob doesn't do magic damage, just swtich it to  aura. I usually have 4 Aura up plus a Conviction. we are still the worse defense buffer in the game not even close to no.5.

 

point 3.

I believe dispatch only last for 13 seconds.. and I think there is no way to chain it. 634 to all resistance, and last for 1 min and 12 seconds, power cost is extreamly low. man, this is a kinna like a overpowerful spell.

point 4.

I disagree. power issues might be a problem, but it is not that much. say, a mob does 2k damage DoT every 30 seconds. so you gonna use both group cure and group direct heal. that's about (234 + 56 x 6)+ ( 364 + 56 x 6 ) = 1270 *note: you have to use the level 42 cure. if you use level 70 cure, sorry you just waste 140 power for nothing.  60 seconds, that's 1270 x 2= 2540. plus some debuffs, that's about 3k every minute. you got mana stone, mana potions, pantrilla tablet, heart shard, that's about another 3k. so you can heal at least 3 mins. 3 mins.. the mob should be down already. some mobs might be tough like MO, try put your inqust on a zeker instead of a swashy. that helps too. after 2 mins, I was using group reactive, group direct heal, spam heal.. I still have 90% power when the fight is done. A zeker is really good for multiple target.

 

hope that helps

[menelaus109]

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Charism II wrote:

I typed a long reply like Moki but it wiped out becuz of some stupid HTML problem.....

Anyways, what I want to advise is to try explore more with your inquisitor, test more different combinations cuz there is NO formular in playing a class, it's all depend on the combinations of the classes in your group and raid party, I am afraid you have not yet play to the full potential of your inq.

Ive played an Inq since just about day 1, my account age around 723 days and my play time is 167 days 21 hours. Ive tried just about everything possible with an inq

I see my weaknesses but I know our strengths too, I use our strength A LOT, such as Convict and Verdict, I am really surprised that any inq found they are less useful!  :pDIfferent strokes, different folks. I throw both spells out occasionally but dont really use them that much

I enjoy playing mine alll along and I can't say I have played the full potential of our class but at least I have all my T6 & T7 spells at Adept 3 or above (11 T7 are M1) with decent equipments.

In short, get your spells to the highest grade you can, i would say, at least Adept 3 to be useful; also your equipments.  Then try different combinations in different situations.  Without these basises, I assure you, you won't enjoy our class and think inq sux which is not true.

Im missing 2 master spells between 57-70 and they are the level 70 heals, otherwise id have all masters. I have several sets of equipment for different situations, including a full set of relic, a pretty full set of blackcoat and some more fabled plate from zones like HoS and DT. I can max just about any resist if i sacrifice some stats and/or mitigation to do it, equipment and master spells arent the problem as i see it

FYI, I found myself best in Melee dps group in raids!

Agreed, its been my home in raids for a long time now

We are good healers, we are great dps enhancers and we are fantastic debuffers

Good single target healers yes, its group heals i have the problem with, other than that /agreed

 I love the Inq class, ive got several alts but non of them are as much fun as my Inq, ive tried levelling other toons but always end up back with my Inq. Im happy with the class id just like to see a few improvements to areas i think we are lacking in

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Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-05-2006 11:13 AM

[menelaus109]

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Demoniac wrote:

Point 1, I agree with Mokichan.

and templar are defensive healer. they always heal better than us caz we do more damage. but also our group direct heal is kinna good too. if you got our group direct direct heal master, that one heals like 1300-1600+ with prismatic III ( if you can't keep the proc up, please try drink some wines during the raid, it will increase at least double chance to proc any beneficial spells ). this spell can crits for 2k heal. with convert you can do like 1800 heal at least. and it only has 6 seconds recast.  our group reactive is like a joke, like Mokichan said

I have no problems with my heal spells in raids. Our group healing capability isn't as good as, say, a warden, because they can cast a group regen that will keep on ticking while our group reactive just sits there. It's nothing to really get upset over though, we can handle ourselves just fine.

point 2. I agree with both of you lol

Pious, if you have any other type healers in the group, you can just cancel it, switch it Aura. Act of Conviction is a nice spell, I always have it up. Fanatics faith is fine, if the mob doesn't do magic damage, just swtich it to  aura. I usually have 4 Aura up plus a Conviction. we are still the worse defense buffer in the game not even close to no.5.

 Nearly always 4 Aura and Act of conviction up for me

point 3.

I believe dispatch only last for 13 seconds.. and I think there is no way to chain it. 634 to all resistance, and last for 1 min and 12 seconds, power cost is extreamly low. man, this is a kinna like a overpowerful spell.

I think its impossible to have dispatch on a mob permanently but the gap in between is about 10 seconds with 2 brigands, also they have a smaller 1.5k debuff called debilitate (i think?)

point 4.

I disagree. power issues might be a problem, but it is not that much. say, a mob does 2k damage DoT every 30 seconds. so you gonna use both group cure and group direct heal. that's about (234 + 56 x 6)+ ( 364 + 56 x 6 ) = 1270 *note: you have to use the level 42 cure. if you use level 70 cure, sorry you just waste 140 power for nothing.  60 seconds, that's 1270 x 2= 2540. plus some debuffs, that's about 3k every minute. you got mana stone, mana potions, pantrilla tablet, heart shard, that's about another 3k. so you can heal at least 3 mins. 3 mins.. the mob should be down already. some mobs might be tough like MO, try put your inqust on a zeker instead of a swashy. that helps too. after 2 mins, I was using group reactive, group direct heal, spam heal.. I still have 90% power when the fight is done. A zeker is really good for multiple target.

 Sometimes convert is extremely useful, when healing a single target it rocks

Take the example of a 3K AE with a poison DoT componentWith Convert up it would be: 6 single cures (6*77) 462 powerConvert 6 times (6*56) 336 power2 group heals (2*356) 712 powerConvert 6 times on each group heal (2*6)*56) 672 power For a total of 2182 Power which is around 35% of my powerTake the same example without convert, but with an extra group heal 6 Single cures (6*77) 462 power3 group heals (3*356) 1086 Power

For a total of 1530 power, which is around 24% The total amount healed is higher with convert off and the power use is around 10% less of my total poolFor every example showing how good Convert is there is another where it isnt, its a good spell but extremely situational

hope that helps

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[menelaus109]

I did some quick testing of convict, nothing special just enough to get a basic idea of its effectivenessI fought 5 62^ silent sentinels in SoS using nothing but Fanatical Vengence M1 to kill them with no debuffs or melee, with int of 226 it hits for 269 The mobs have no damage shield, ward, int debuff or mit boostUsing ACT to analyse the information of the 5 fights215 hits with min of 269 and a max on crits of 350Average was 274.52Then i fought 5 of the same level and type but kept convict (Master 1) up all the time211 Hits with a min of 270 and a max on crits of 352Average was 281.71Which works out to around a 2.5% Increase in the average hit, the effect on a raid mob would be much lower as there would be far fewer crits and more resistsIts impossible to test it on a raid mob as other classes are debuffing, id guess the overall effect would be less than 1% on a raid mob but its impossible to say exactlyIll try this again on an even con mob to get a better idea without so many crits but its hardly the uber debuff some people think it is

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-05-2006 12:27 PM

[Demoniac]

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menelaus109 wrote:
Im curious what other people think of Inquisitor raid utility and healing, Ive found its becoming increasingly difficult to justify a place in a raid, recent changes have improved DPS but havent really affected raiding

In terms of healing i find that i am extremely good at healing a single target, the faster recasts of our spells more than offset the slightly lower healing amount, however in terms of group healing we compare very poorly i often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs and find it difficult to heal a whole group in a short space of time, id trade my M2 large heal for an M2 group heal straight away

In terms of utility we get some decent buffs, the Aura line is nice along with the group proc line, my normal setup would be aura on 4 people and act of conviction up. The problem is that classes such as coercer can buff DPS much more than us (74% i believe) have several nice procs and regens, I rarely use pious or fanatics faith in raids.

The only debuff i use is forced obidience, debase and convict are pretty poor compared to other debuffs, even from other healers and seem to have a negligible effect. Other types of utility spells like root, stifle and fear are useless against epics targets

My suggestions to improve raiding inquisitors would be:

An additional group heal of some sort, maybe a reactive placed on a mob which had a chance to proc a group heal whenever the target made a succesful hit, either spell or melee. In order to keep it balanced have it cost either power over time to maintain or add a significant recast timer to it

For example a 5% chance to proc a group heal of 400-600 whenever the mob made a succesful attack, costs 40 every 6 seconds to maintain

All the other healing classes are either superior group healers (druids) or have some extra type of group heal outside the normal 5 healing spells. Templars get a group heal when a mob dies, Shammies get various pets that place a regenerating ward on the group.  I dont believe this spell would be overpowering and the power over time elemant means that it couldnt be used in conjunction with yaulp without causing significant power loss

Change Zealotry to remove the stun part but increase the reuse timer and boost the effect it has on reuse timers, the stun element of this spell makes it pretty useless, most melee DPS groups already have significant Haste already. By increasing the reuse timer to 5 minutes it could be used once per named fight as a temporary, small, short term boost to DPS  without becoming an overpowering permanent group buff

Increase the damage slightly on the conviction line, as it stands this spell adds around 30-60 DPS to each group member which seems a little low (maybe more with higher int, i normally raid with 202) increase the damage by 15% to make Inq a more viable addition

Verdict, someone posted a suggestion a while ago about changing verdict into a effect similar to the curse of insanity which seems pretty interesting, as far as raids are concerned i never use this spell, the last 2% of a mobs HP are burnt down to quickly to make it  worthwhile, id happily trade this spell for a form of reactive curse that does damage based on power a mobs uses

Im not trying to get other classes nerfed just bring Inq upto par in certain aspects

Message Edited by menelaus109 on 06-04-2006 04:01 PM

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Very very very nice Information. actually I think even though it works like 1% better it's fine. caz it works on 10 types of resistance which means it will make you 1% x 10 better dps that's still pretty hot.

[Supernova17]

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menelaus109 wrote:

My suggestions to improve raiding inquisitors would be:An additional group heal of some sort, maybe a reactive placed on a mob which had a chance to proc a group heal whenever the target made a succesful hit, either spell or melee. In order to keep it balanced have it cost either power over time to maintain or add a significant recast timer to itFor example a 5% chance to proc a group heal of 400-600 whenever the mob made a succesful attack, costs 40 every 6 seconds to maintain This is a Templar 1 Concentration buff ability, but it works in reverse and requires an ally to strike the mob in melee combat. All the other healing classes are either superior group healers (druids) or have some extra type of group heal outside the normal 5 healing spells. Templars get a group heal when a mob dies Aye, but not totally effective in raids at all when you're focused on one main mob. Also it gets bugged sometimes and has a chance to fail to go off when someone outside your group kills the mob.

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Just for reference: Descartin, 70 Templar Fortitude of Kithicor

[Adorya]

About debuff, I think that every small bit help and cumulate with others to make efficients results, it is like stacking FT 1 with several items. Maybe Convict is only 600ish, but dispatch + convict + templar ac debuff + others debuff stacked  can make the difference in a difficult encounter that need dps (Harla for exemple). That is why I throw up every debuff I can on inc (forced+debase+convict+wis debuff) and I care less on heal because if you have a good g1 only one big heal tossed is enough (on Talendor for exemple I don't land a single one on the MT, our templar do a great job).

I didn't see anywhere else the mention of our 2 mental / divine debuff dot, but I think they are also usefull, especially with memwipe named when taunt is resisted too often.

I never use Fanaticism on raid, just because of the stifle and the constant debuffing unless named is near death and the raid overwhelm him.

About our group heal weakness, well, I have to cope with it, but unless I have a mob that use 2 AEs at once (Vyemm maybe?), the casting duration is not so catastrophic (and usually AE need a group cure before).

With the way Verdict is, "upgrading" it to raise the % effectiveness would make it too powerfull, and imo only serve as an "emergency death touch", where the raid is wiping and the named is very low on hp. It is ok as it is even if it has very limited use, but making it a reverse curse on mana is not usefull on named, since most of their CAs are innate and mana pool is set to unlimited (after the mana nerf). I don't think of a way to "upgrade" it, but maybe I can just propose to fix it, like adding an emote on successfull cast.

[bosf]

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menelaus109 wrote:

In terms of healing i find that i am extremely good at healing a single target, the faster recasts of our spells more than offset the slightly lower healing amount, however in terms of group healing we compare very poorly i often struggle to keep up with the damage from AEs and find it difficult to heal a whole group in a short space of time, id trade my M2 large heal for an M2 group heal straight away

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I agree. My group heals are lacking in raids. I am often the only healer in a dps melee group and if the melee are not avoiding the AE's then I get power problems quickly. I think most other healers are better in this situation. Using Convert in this case is a bad idea, unless you have super power regen in the group (which I usually have not). 

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menelaus109 wrote:

Increase the damage slightly on the conviction line, as it stands this spell adds around 30-60 DPS to each group member which seems a little low.

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Last time I parsed the damage of Act of Conviction during a raid it added about 10dps to each group member (average over several fights). Hardly worth casting it, especially if that means dropping a hp/resist buff against a mob with an AE. I would be happy with a 30-60dps increase, so I guess I will test it again.

Yaighan, 70 inq.

[menelaus109]

Thankyou DescartinI was thinking more of a spell that follow the reactive curse line of inq spells which depend on the mob doing something to make it proc, like vengence and repentenceCosting a conc slot would be fine to but i think costing PoT would fit the idea more, imagine a inquisitor using his mental powers to turn an enemies actions against him

[Mysk1]

I can say that I am quite happy with my role as Inquisitor in raids.Usually we even use 2 or sometimes 3 of our Inquisitors during a raid.And I have the general feeling that we don't have to hide from other healers.I like especially our versatility.Of course every healer type has different strengths and weaknesses.Our place is usually not in the MT group but we are great in Damage Dealer groups.The added DPS buff on our Single HP buff is quite nice on scout classes.And I benefit from the melee DDs by placing the Chilling Inquest spell on them.They hit quickly and that means that the effect procs quite often and gives me additional mana.Therefore I run very rarely out of mana and that can be very useful on long fights.Additionally I have the AA spec with the cast time reduction (50% cast time for 24 seconds.Useable every 5 minutes) and that is a wonderful effect for a DD group at the right time.Of course this AA ability can also be chosen by templars, but this is still a perfectcombination for my role as healer in DD groups.Also our group cure has a useful combination (arcane and elemental).Stuns are usually arcane and quite a lot of AE dots are elemental.Additionally the spell "Fervent Focus" is a very nice feature to get ridof CC effects (stun, mezz, etc.). If we get stunned, the Inquisitors canuse Fervent Focus to get free and quickly use the group cure to destunthe whole group.And of course our debuffs are also not too shabby. Also the heals are not bad. Combined with "Convert" we can also have higherheals when necessary (jsut choose the right situation). It burns more mana,but due to the additional mana from "Chilling Inquest" it is usually no problem.Just use additionally mana stone, mana potions, conjuror shards and necromancerhearts if you run low on mana.I just miss a more healer friendly Lv.50/70 effect (like the stun heals from other healers)."Zealotry/Fanaticism" might be nice sometimes, but usually I need to heal and debuff andthen it is not very useful to be stifled.And last but not least we have that spell "Verdict". That spell can be quite some fun.Of course you can't use it often on raids because the damage is dealt quick enough(the last 2% are done too quick). But there are sometimes those closer fights.Some DD's might be already down and damage starts to come slower and a wipe mightbe possible. Then it is great to use that spell when you reach the last 2% HP.There comes the ghostly hammer and ... *BAM* ... the mob is at 1HP and about to die.Really began to like that spell and now I don't want to miss it anymore.

Nachricht bearbeitet von Mysk1 am 06-07-2006 02:28 PM

[Beragon]

 have no problems with my heal spells in raids. Our group healing capability isn't as good as, say, a warden, because they can cast a group regen that will keep on ticking while our group reactive just sits there. It's nothing to really get upset over though, we can handle ourselves just fine.

 

Mockichan...

Then i give you 5 caster, for Lord Vyemm you the only healer in this group, same for Tarinax then show me yur healing skills, to keep them up till the End. When you then cry because oyu lost some members, i put the same group with a Furie and you will see he takes 50% lesser power and heals far better then you.

 

I am Mainhealer in my Raid in one raid mostly, but on AoEing mobs, INqui is useless, but up an Furie / Warden or an Shm / Mysti and he does alot better job. Sad nothing else to add even if the Inqui is skilled the Furie can slack..

 

[Mysk1]

@Beragon: I won't argue your statement that in your mentioned group setting a Fury would be the better single healer. But I can ensure you that I was already often the single healer in my group at Vyemm and had not a big problem to keep my group alive. Of course it were not 5 caster because that would be not an ideal setup. But usually it is a combination of scouts and mages. Also in DT with the Beholders it is possible for me to keep the group alive. But of course it is less stressful to get a 2nd healer in my group for these fights.

[Demoniac]

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Then i give you 5 caster, for Lord Vyemm you the only healer in this group, same for Tarinax then show me yur healing skills, to keep them up till the End. When you then cry because oyu lost some members, i put the same group with a Furie and you will see he takes 50% lesser power and heals far better then you.

 

I am Mainhealer in my Raid in one raid mostly, but on AoEing mobs, INqui is useless, but up an Furie / Warden or an Shm / Mysti and he does alot better job. Sad nothing else to add even if the Inqui is skilled the Furie can slack..

 

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I believe this is not the truth. for lord vyemm. actually you don't need to heal the mage group. if a mage take the ae, it's a " 1shot". so you don't need to heal them at all. you might need to res them. for tarinax, the ae is just fine. after soe nerfed it, everybody can tank tarinax. you just need to target tarinax and spam. the whole fight will be 3 mins. it's all about to debuff and burn. that's all. last time we had a conj tank tarinax for like 12 seconds. tarinax always miss. it's a joke now. before they nerfed the frontal = 10000+ I've seen tarinax 1 shot 24 people before. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] puller:smileysad:

there is nothing to againest you really. I will show you a MO fight healing parser.

this is our first MO raid it's a wipe at 7%

Jina :smileyhappy: ( that's me. Trash group healer&nbsp

Daisyfleur ( MT group fury )

Epifiny ( MT group defiler )

Descartin ( MT group templar )

Pryzm ( mage group fury )

Feyer ( another group warden )

Trust ( trash group mystic * group with me&nbsp

 

this is the second mo parser and it's a kill

 

 

for AE mobs, inquisitor might be the BEST healer ever. if you didn't realize that, you might have to relearn the class. this class rocks ( hope they don't nerf us, actually there is nothing to nerf any more ) Trust group with me, he's always complain about my heal. it's about 3k AE heal. this is what I do, I cast group reactive on your people. when the AE comes, use your direct heal right away. you have to know, your AE direct heal can crit heal for 2k. after that.. everyone is full. our mystic says we need a nerf.:smileyhappy:

 

there is nothing to againest you, Sir. I just kinna disagree the point.

[Demoniac]

btw.. the last fight I died.. that's why I only heal for like 100k

 

ah.. here is the lab video that i made before

 

enjoy yourself

 

16mb

Link

Message Edited by Demoniac on 06-08-2006 05:29 AM

[menelaus109]

Interesting post DemoniacI dont know how you parsed that high on the heal list, here is a parse of our last MO fightMT group was: Temp, Defiler(+26k from pet), WardenMA group Temp: (lower parse one)MysticMage trash group: FuryMelee Trash group: Me Also the Defiler had his pet out which healed for 26KI checked through the heals each healer used as well and every other healer in the raid bar the mystic used a heal outside the standard 5 at some point, both templars used Supplicanting fate several times, the defiler had his pet out which healed for over 26K and the fury used BITF twiceAdmittedly the fight isnt that hard once you nail down a strat but every other healer in the raid had more options to deal with the group healing than an Inq does, i still think adding some form of additional group heal for Inq would be justified

[ericshaitan]

Their is only two reasons that an Inquisitor would parse #1 on the heal list.  You choose which catagory you fall into. 1.)  All your other healers suck.  They are not prehealing, activly healing, or keeping their wards/reactives up.  Bascially they are Sub-par. 2.)  You group is getting AoE like a mother. I find that #2 is the main reason we parse high.  Since we typically are in the group with all melee classes this means that they are always getting hit with every AoE the mob has. 

[ericshaitan]

Oh yea and Heal parses mean Jack [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]... for my very reasoning above. I can place 20 Perfectly times heals on the MT for 1.8K a pop and save the raid so many times because of it.  Or....... I can cast my AoE heal 4 times, not paying attention, watching [Removed for Content] while having a beer and getting a bj.

[Demoniac]

awesome...

well here is some tips...

1. before you charge in make sure you get drunk, those wines can help you proc some benefitical spells. like the pris iii. like god king stuff.

2. use the healing proc earing.

3. try to put the inquest buff on a zeker not a swashy to help your power regen.

4. spam group heal and group reactive.

I dunno that's how I do in the MO fight...

 

hmm.. heh heh.. through the parse. let me guess

MT group standing the back of MO. the monk charge in, and the tank single taunt MO of the monk. AE hits. burn down the adds. charge in.. and burn mo down.. cool..

[Demoniac]

oh.. I never stay in the mt group. lol I agree haha

 

they are just watching porns while we fighting MO. they suck...

[ericshaitan]

:smileyhappy: I would rather watch port then fight MO.:smileyhappy:

[Demoniac]

1 thing is not really ture...

 

the fight only last for 3 mins... they don't take the first AE. so that's 2 aes for total right? let's say they take the ae mad like a motherforker. heh heh say 6000 each person and they didn't die. that's only 6000 x 6 x 2 = 72000.. where is the other 30k coming from?? I would love to know your parse on MO.

[ericshaitan]

Only fought MO once, and didn't get a parse.  Unfortunatly Disso has the strat and currently has the monopoly on him.

[Demoniac]

never mind :  ) it's a game.

 

I am gonna watch some [Removed for Content] now... you reminded me. :smileysurprised:

[ericshaitan]

Sounds like a good idea........... Don't know how my co-workers would feel about it though..... lets find out:smileywink: