Is it just me or are we taking a lot more damage?

Joos · 09-15-2005, 12:38 AM

Being a Barbarian Inquisitor (typo in the original maual on wis, thanks SoE) I usually take damage pretty well; though, today I am getting my butt pounded.

16% avoidence, pretty good for a priest, not good enough.

So, is this part of the combat changes, to severly decress our damage mitigation?

Maybe that is why I need to spam direct heals and cannot handle an add anymore when soloing?

Any thoughts?

Salastine · 09-15-2005, 12:48 AM

That is the type and con of the mobs you're trying to solo?

Joos · 09-15-2005, 01:47 AM

Same as always, yellow group mobs.

Clawrift · 09-15-2005, 03:50 AM

Im lvl 50 and I can't fight yellow solo anymore.

Krien the Wick · 09-15-2005, 04:10 AM

Results may vary, some are soloing better, some worse. One thing though, if by group mobs you mean heroics, you're not *supposed* to be able to solo heroics. They are meant for groups. You will take drastically more damage against heroics than solo mobs.

If you mean yellow solo groups, we lost the parry skill so we get hit more. I haven't noticed that much ofa difference in the 30s.

too · 09-15-2005, 05:22 AM

Well, as a 29 inquisitor trying to keep my usual party of 28 guardain, 29 assassin, and 28 warlock alive against 2 blue heroics, all i could do is cast heal after heal after heal after heal. I did not debuff of nuke as my party was loosing so many hp that all I could do is try an keep them alive, We had 2 deaths on 2 blues, and evac'd before a total wipe out on 3 blue. On one blue I could cast one maybe 2 nuke/debuff.

All of us have played since release or in beta of EQ2, all of us play or played EQ1 and other MMORPG. We went to the same zone we where in Monday night before changes. We could not even get to the first named, Monday we killed 3, we have 2 deaths and a timely escape, on Monday we had no deaths.

Healing improved, i think not, gameplay improved (maybe if you kill green mobs), my experience, tonight was about the worst MMORPG gameplay I have had in 6+ years.

Filthysnake · 09-15-2005, 08:44 AM

its just you.

j/k I cant really comment on the dmg because its been so long since i soloed or took any dmg other than on a raid in so long. I do know i spent part of the day soloing in the living tombs taking out grps of 3 solo mobs linked without any issues(lv 52). I also got with a grp out of my guild and took on some higher lv herioc mobs(57-5 SMILEY

and had no issues keeping up with the dmg or adds. I have to believe its just that the whole system has changed and ppl need to relearn their abilities and what they do now.

Joos · 09-15-2005, 11:05 PM

Clawrift wrote:
Im lvl 50 and I can't fight yellow solo anymore.

I can still take small groups of yellow con mobs (51/52), I have mediocre gear and only adept I spells, I like the challenge :smileyhappy:

Vidar64 · 09-16-2005, 02:48 PM

I would say that we are taking more damage than before, though it can be compensated for to a degree. I purposely set up a case test for before and after the changes. The test I used was the city writ Blood Cleansing at level 39. This writ involves killing 21 Rabid Hounds in Rivervale. I also kill the place holder Rabid Pups. Before the change, this writ would take me about an hour and give me six to seven percent experience. After the change, this writ took me nearly two hours and gave me around twelve percent experience (remember, double experience this week). This was all soloing. My pattern before was to pull with Depravity. Debuff more with Rebuke and Contempt. Heroic Opportunity with Torment then Cruel Invocation. Retaliation. Another Heroic Opportunity with Cleansing Flames then Symbol of Corruption. I would be buffed with the usual hp/ac buffs and also Act of Belief. With the debuffs, 4 dots and a damage shield, 2 weapon procing buffs and 1 reactive proc (Imbued Greaves), no further casting was usually required. After the change, the damage spells I use are pretty much the same but I had to change up a few things to hold down the damage I was taking. I now start with Imprison, cast Depravity and Contempt. I no longer need to cast Rebuke for the Divine debuff but I do now need to cast Forced Acquiescence even on solo mobs in order to hold the damage they do down to reasonable levels. I still used the same 4 damage spells in my heroics though Cruel invocation is now a nuke and I still use Retaliation for its damage shield properties. So the secret to holding down the damage we take is to add the spells Imprison and Forced Acquiescence to your soloing. Downside is the extra power used means more downtime. A lot more downtime. My personal theory, is that our armor isn't doing the job it should be. Here's how I think it should work (just my opinion here). One, mob attacks. Two, chance to block (shield), parry (weapon) or dodge is calculated. Dodge should be positively affected by agility and negatively affected by heavier armor. Three, hit is determined by armor vs. weapon skill. Heavier armors should have a significantly higher armor rating. Don't believe me? Compare trying to stab a knife through a piece of leather (such as a belt) vs. a piece of sheet metal. Good armor in itself should have an ability to block a blow. Finally, number four, mitigation is factored in if the blow hits. I think we are losing out on number 3. I don't think we are getting hit any harder than before, just a LOT more often. The new system seems to be either dodge everything or mitigate some and the mitigation just isn't enough. We CAN NOT tank anymore. Before we could for at least a while. To me this is the biggest failing in the new changes (aka, in a group of 3, caster, scout and me, blue heroic encounter = death after Forced Acqueescence was cast). I'm still feeling out the changes. Right now, I'm not too happy, but I'll give it a couple weeks to check things out. I want to experience things after the week of double experience is gone. Have a full month to make up my mind anyways just because of how my rebill falls.

Joos · 09-16-2005, 05:50 PM

Well said Vidar64, I think some sort of tweek is in order, I hope we get it because my tanks are also taking more damage than they should.

Somniloquy · 09-19-2005, 04:10 AM

Its not just you. yeah you are taking more damage esp from heroics and white con + but ummm, check the toher class forums and you will see that its the same for everyone, Mit is down across the board it seems. Golden rule for healer is, dont get hit. My MT toon went out after upgarding 3 armour pieces on day 1 after the upgrade and walked staright into death from whites he had been wiping the day before. Ho Hum. But In fact I find my healers and tank toons can actually do their group job better now, lucky for me cos soling was somethign I did in between doing other stuff or if something wanders to close while Im harvesting or something.

zorros · 09-20-2005, 10:46 PM

So is leather armour best to get for the time being? Just hit 30 and got me shiny new armour have i done the wrong thing :smileysad:

Krien the Wick · 09-20-2005, 11:10 PM

I replaced a few pieceswith leather, because it had more wis, and my avoidance went up a few percent each. I think, at least for now, it may be a good idea to switch in a piece of leather or 5 heh. I think mitigation will be changed some soon though, there seem to be a lot of problems with it.

09-15-2005, 12:48 AM	#2
Salastine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 164	That is the type and con of the mobs you're trying to solo? __________________ Dairuin 90 Bruiser Den of Madness Nagafen

09-15-2005, 08:44 AM	#7
Filthysnake Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 22	its just you. j/k I cant really comment on the dmg because its been so long since i soloed or took any dmg other than on a raid in so long. I do know i spent part of the day soloing in the living tombs taking out grps of 3 solo mobs linked without any issues(lv 52). I also got with a grp out of my guild and took on some higher lv herioc mobs(57-5 and had no issues keeping up with the dmg or adds. I have to believe its just that the whole system has changed and ppl need to relearn their abilities and what they do now.

09-15-2005, 11:05 PM	#8
Joos Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Clawrift wrote: Im lvl 50 and I can't fight yellow solo anymore. I can still take small groups of yellow con mobs (51/52), I have mediocre gear and only adept I spells, I like the challenge :smileyhappy:

09-16-2005, 02:48 PM	#9
Vidar64 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 40	I would say that we are taking more damage than before, though it can be compensated for to a degree. I purposely set up a case test for before and after the changes. The test I used was the city writ Blood Cleansing at level 39. This writ involves killing 21 Rabid Hounds in Rivervale. I also kill the place holder Rabid Pups. Before the change, this writ would take me about an hour and give me six to seven percent experience. After the change, this writ took me nearly two hours and gave me around twelve percent experience (remember, double experience this week). This was all soloing. My pattern before was to pull with Depravity. Debuff more with Rebuke and Contempt. Heroic Opportunity with Torment then Cruel Invocation. Retaliation. Another Heroic Opportunity with Cleansing Flames then Symbol of Corruption. I would be buffed with the usual hp/ac buffs and also Act of Belief. With the debuffs, 4 dots and a damage shield, 2 weapon procing buffs and 1 reactive proc (Imbued Greaves), no further casting was usually required. After the change, the damage spells I use are pretty much the same but I had to change up a few things to hold down the damage I was taking. I now start with Imprison, cast Depravity and Contempt. I no longer need to cast Rebuke for the Divine debuff but I do now need to cast Forced Acquiescence even on solo mobs in order to hold the damage they do down to reasonable levels. I still used the same 4 damage spells in my heroics though Cruel invocation is now a nuke and I still use Retaliation for its damage shield properties. So the secret to holding down the damage we take is to add the spells Imprison and Forced Acquiescence to your soloing. Downside is the extra power used means more downtime. A lot more downtime. My personal theory, is that our armor isn't doing the job it should be. Here's how I think it should work (just my opinion here). One, mob attacks. Two, chance to block (shield), parry (weapon) or dodge is calculated. Dodge should be positively affected by agility and negatively affected by heavier armor. Three, hit is determined by armor vs. weapon skill. Heavier armors should have a significantly higher armor rating. Don't believe me? Compare trying to stab a knife through a piece of leather (such as a belt) vs. a piece of sheet metal. Good armor in itself should have an ability to block a blow. Finally, number four, mitigation is factored in if the blow hits. I think we are losing out on number 3. I don't think we are getting hit any harder than before, just a LOT more often. The new system seems to be either dodge everything or mitigate some and the mitigation just isn't enough. We CAN NOT tank anymore. Before we could for at least a while. To me this is the biggest failing in the new changes (aka, in a group of 3, caster, scout and me, blue heroic encounter = death after Forced Acqueescence was cast). I'm still feeling out the changes. Right now, I'm not too happy, but I'll give it a couple weeks to check things out. I want to experience things after the week of double experience is gone. Have a full month to make up my mind anyways just because of how my rebill falls. __________________

09-15-2005, 12:38 AM	#1
Joos Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Being a Barbarian Inquisitor (typo in the original maual on wis, thanks SoE) I usually take damage pretty well; though, today I am getting my butt pounded. 16% avoidence, pretty good for a priest, not good enough. So, is this part of the combat changes, to severly decress our damage mitigation? Maybe that is why I need to spam direct heals and cannot handle an add anymore when soloing? Any thoughts?

09-15-2005, 01:47 AM	#3
Joos Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Same as always, yellow group mobs.

09-15-2005, 03:50 AM	#4
Clawrift Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	Im lvl 50 and I can't fight yellow solo anymore.

09-15-2005, 04:10 AM	#5
Krien the Wick Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 168	Results may vary, some are soloing better, some worse. One thing though, if by group mobs you mean heroics, you're not supposed to be able to solo heroics. They are meant for groups. You will take drastically more damage against heroics than solo mobs. If you mean yellow solo groups, we lost the parry skill so we get hit more. I haven't noticed that much ofa difference in the 30s.

09-15-2005, 05:22 AM	#6
too Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6	Well, as a 29 inquisitor trying to keep my usual party of 28 guardain, 29 assassin, and 28 warlock alive against 2 blue heroics, all i could do is cast heal after heal after heal after heal. I did not debuff of nuke as my party was loosing so many hp that all I could do is try an keep them alive, We had 2 deaths on 2 blues, and evac'd before a total wipe out on 3 blue. On one blue I could cast one maybe 2 nuke/debuff. All of us have played since release or in beta of EQ2, all of us play or played EQ1 and other MMORPG. We went to the same zone we where in Monday night before changes. We could not even get to the first named, Monday we killed 3, we have 2 deaths and a timely escape, on Monday we had no deaths. Healing improved, i think not, gameplay improved (maybe if you kill green mobs), my experience, tonight was about the worst MMORPG gameplay I have had in 6+ years.

09-16-2005, 05:50 PM	#10
Joos Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 81	Well said Vidar64, I think some sort of tweek is in order, I hope we get it because my tanks are also taking more damage than they should.

09-19-2005, 04:10 AM	#11
Somniloquy Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 72	Its not just you. yeah you are taking more damage esp from heroics and white con + but ummm, check the toher class forums and you will see that its the same for everyone, Mit is down across the board it seems. Golden rule for healer is, dont get hit. My MT toon went out after upgarding 3 armour pieces on day 1 after the upgrade and walked staright into death from whites he had been wiping the day before. Ho Hum. But In fact I find my healers and tank toons can actually do their group job better now, lucky for me cos soling was somethign I did in between doing other stuff or if something wanders to close while Im harvesting or something.

09-20-2005, 10:46 PM	#12
zorros Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 474	So is leather armour best to get for the time being? Just hit 30 and got me shiny new armour have i done the wrong thing :smileysad:

09-20-2005, 11:10 PM	#13
Krien the Wick Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 168	I replaced a few pieceswith leather, because it had more wis, and my avoidance went up a few percent each. I think, at least for now, it may be a good idea to switch in a piece of leather or 5 heh. I think mitigation will be changed some soon though, there seem to be a lot of problems with it.