So I made a Conjuror...

[SnowKnight]

Ok first off let me say :
I know templars are not a dps class and Conjurors are, but even so templars should be able to solo at least a little better, and as for healing taking skill? Thats not true either, 99% of fights I just cast the same two heals over and over.

 

 

Ok that said here I go.

I used to love my templar. I was third on my server to 60, and only just dinged 48 when DoF came out. Now I barely log in, I just cant bear it anymore, grouping for me consists of

- cast single target reactive

- cast group reactive

- repeat endlessly

 

Soloing gos (Borrowed from another thread)

- Debuff

- Debuff

- DoT

- DoT

- HO,

- Smite,

- Strike,

- Smite,

- HO

- Strike,

- Smite

Repeat endlessly, with a reactive thrown in everyone in a while. Note that the list doesnt include the endless interrupts or fizzles either. The Pit champ (which im going to use as a standard to compare the characters) Takes quite a while (5 min plus) IF I can kill him ( I wear a mix of legendary fabled and treasured ), its about a 50/50 chance I think.

 

I was playing my templar the other week, slooowly soling yet another 15 minute solo mob (OK slight lie there but after playing my conjuror thats how it feels), when the vuage thoughts id been having about making a alt mage of some sort finally came together, after seeing that someone in my guild would make me the adept 3's so I could own up IoR. I already have a warlock, this was my first toon, and frankly I dont really like them.

 

So I thought a diff path this time, and seeing as how enchanters are currently borked beyond belief (that and the fact I have one, albeit level 13 till they get fixed) that left necromancer or conjuror. I chose conjuror cause I like the showy pets, spells and illusions plus they do nice group and single target damage.

 

So yeah, I go through IoR having a ball, Solod all the named and the orc at the end, went on made my summoner. First of, let me say pets are great. No more interrupts. No more stuns for 20 seconds. And hey who needs to heal yourself If your not taking damage. DPS is great. Things go down MUCH faster than with a templar ( Although this is to be expected, I will get to my point later). Level up to 20 make my conjuror get my various pets till im at current level of 46 (which took under 3 weeks, Id like to see a templar level that fast :p ).

 

On to the pit champ. He takes me about 5 seconds to kill with my conjuror, and to lose Id have to go afk or something. My templar has a real challenge to defeat  this guy, even on lowest difficulty. Something is not right there. My templar should at least be able to solo the champ on easy with a decent chance of success (bearing in mind I have adept 3's and pretty decent gear). My conjuror has absolutely no problems at all. Zone in, 10 minutes later your done. Templar zones in, maybe 30 - 40 min later your done, If you can manage to kill the champ.

 

My templar is just not fun anymore. He solos much too slowly, and fights are just boring. At least I can have some fun in a group with my conjuror, not just spam the same 2 heals over and over, and soloing actually becomes viable. In short my templar is now retired, except for when needed on a raid, and my Conjuror will be my new main. I dont think SOE will be happy until there are no templars left.

[bigmak20]

SOE probably isn't trying to get rid of Templars they just don't know what to do with us because our class no longer belongs in the game based on their new class descriptions.  There is no place for a dedicated healer class. The other thing that I believe has irrevocably damaged Templars is our spokespersons went to the Community Summit and told SOE we were fine (we are not) and in fact told them Templars were still the best healers by a significant margin (we are not).  This put Templar issues at the very bottom of any list or priorities SOE has.  We are all witness to that.

[Donte]

I hear ya. 

 

I absolutely hate my templar now.  53 and stale

My Dirge is becoming my main.  51 and climbing

 

Funny thing is the bard is the lowest dps scout class and is still a blast to play.  While the templar is pathetic.  I will not play solo with the templar anymore.  Heck I wont even harvest because green single downs take too long to kill off if I get agro.

 

70-90 dps at level 53 is down right embarrasing.  I even have descent INT 160.  Why in the heck should I have to sacrifice WIS for INT just to have any soloability?  I was even building an int suit.  Rediculas I say.

 

 

 

SOE! get a clue!

[SnowKnight]

I hear you with the harvesting lol. With my conjuror I just have the pet take agro, toss of a dot or two, and continue harvesting. XP and Harvesting at the same time, how can you go wrong! :p

[notxab]

I love my conj. alt. :smileyhappy:

[Kendricke]

---

bigmak2010 wrote:
SOE probably isn't trying to get rid of Templars they just don't know what to do with us because our class no longer belongs in the game based on their new class descriptions.  There is no place for a dedicated healer class.

The other thing that I believe has irrevocably damaged Templars is our spokespersons went to the Community Summit and told SOE we were fine (we are not) and in fact told them Templars were still the best healers by a significant margin (we are not).  This put Templar issues at the very bottom of any list or priorities SOE has.  We are all witness to that.

---

Xrande showed up to the first Summit with a list of issues as long as my arm.  Even though English isn't his first language, he muddled through the list and the developers took the time to hear every single complaint...complaints that were compiled in this forum by contributers from the Templar community.  Where were all of you in April, May, and June when the list was really taking off?

Tamat was there primary from EQ2 Vault...but he was also a Templar representative.  I was there primarily for Guild Concerns...but again, I'm also a Templar.  Both of us brought up issues about our classes over the course of several days (the first Summit coincided with FanFaire, and Summit Attendees had great access to the developers throughout the Faire). 

At the second Summit, you had Ethec from Ten Ton Hammer, who is arguably one of the most versed Templar in the game.  He's certainly produced more spell lists and guides for Templars than any other single player.  I think he's posted on these forums 3 or 4 times total.  You also had Radar-X, who I don't believe went based on his Templar status, but more likely for his community contributions to the Non-Gameplay Discussion forums (just as Pravus and others were invited to the first Summit). 

There are no Templar spokespersons or correspondants or representatives.  No special access.  No secret handshakes.  No grand conspiracy.

There are only players and developers. 

 

 

[Truffor]

My int is 190 without any potion, my Smite (45) is Master I (bought it yesterday. I'm 56 and it's replaced at 59), my strike(53) is adept 3. I used to solo a lot pre LU13 without such a stuff. And guess what, even with that, my Necro is now 41and still climbing... Plz fix templar...

[Donte]

---

Truffor wrote:
My int is 190 without any potion, my Smite (45) is Master I (bought it yesterday. I'm 56 and it's replaced at 59), my strike(53) is adept 3. I used to solo a lot pre LU13 without such a stuff. And guess what, even with that, my Necro is now 41and still climbing...

Plz fix templar...

---

ouch. 

[Suite]

---

Kendricke wrote:

There are no Templar spokespersons or correspondants or representatives.  No special access.  No secret handshakes.  No grand conspiracy.

There are only players and developers. 

---

Nobody said there is a secret handshake or a grand conspiracy.

And nobody said we wanted you there speaking for us, either.

Suite

 

[CoLD MeTaL]

---

Kendricke wrote:

...  Where were all of you in April, May, and June when the list was really taking off?

Still enjoying our UNNERFED Templars, with a few minor issues.  I was only in my 20 levels at the time, so I doubt I even knew half the problems. 

...

And I would say that April, May, and June are irrelevant since the LU#13 nuke occurred after that.

---

[Kendricke]

---

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

---

Kendricke wrote:

...  Where were all of you in April, May, and June when the list was really taking off?

Still enjoying our UNNERFED Templars, with a few minor issues.  I was only in my 20 levels at the time, so I doubt I even knew half the problems. 

...

And I would say that April, May, and June are irrelevant since the LU#13 nuke occurred after that.

---

---

Then do what Xrande did.  Avoid the attacks, the fluff, and the emotionally charged opinions.  List the bugs.  List the problems.  Make sure to keep bugs and suggestions separate.  Xrande knew how to get things done...and it worked.  Go on, make the post.  Make it right and it will get noticed.

...or are you waiting for someone like me to make the post for you? :smileywink: 

[Nari]

I have to second that.  I had few complaints about my class at the time, so of course I didn't need to come here and see what was going on. I came here and saw that it has been a combination of needing to relearn my class and a set of reactionary changes that cause me to doubt the capabilities of the development team. (Get mad at me if you want to, those of you who defend every move the developers make, but someone isn't doing their job.  Honesty hurts sometimes.) Maybe we were a bit overpowered, but I never got far enough along to realize that. PS: I am no fan of the conjuror.  My husband plays one and I think it is pretty pathetic out of the box.  Once you spend the money to tune it up, it is tolerable.

[Nari]

---

Kendricke wrote:

Then do what Xrande did.  Avoid the attacks, the fluff, and the emotionally charged opinions.  List the bugs.  List the problems.  Make sure to keep bugs and suggestions separate.  Xrande knew how to get things done...and it worked.  Go on, make the post.  Make it right and it will get noticed.

...or are you waiting for someone like me to make the post for you? :smileywink: 

---

If this is the result of people making suggestions to the development team, I would be afraid to talk with them.

[CoLD MeTaL]

---

Kendricke wrote:

...

---

Then do what Xrande did.  Avoid the attacks, the fluff, and the emotionally charged opinions.  List the bugs.  List the problems.  Make sure to keep bugs and suggestions separate.  Xrande knew how to get things done...and it worked.  Go on, make the post.  Make it right and it will get noticed.

...or are you waiting for someone like me to make the post for you? :smileywink: 

---

I think if I had the words to do it, I would have already done it.

 

By the time I diagnose the issues, it is no longer a game, but a task.

 

But basically I would say reverse LU#13 nuke.  That of course is not going to happen.

 

Now my templar is only level 32, so what I am telling you is that I don't have access to the data to give you what u are asking for.

 

I don't believe that you could express my concerns as it appears you play more technical min/max.  Maybe I misunderstand you, we haven't exchanged many posts to my knowledge.

 

I spent months learning to play a character as it grew through the choices that i made.  Then it is all basically erased and i am given something with the same name, but no resemblance to the original.  Bah! why bother discussing this, it won't change.  it won't get better.  by the time I figure out what is wrong, since i have a job a family, etc. it will all be different.

 

Anything I say like, my biggest heal takes longer than the tank has health.  then people use reactives, use debuffs, etc.  or the ever popular "Learn your character"

 

outrageous and needless, that i should have to relearn something for a game, i already spent time learning.

 

So my templar is really now a weaponsmith, so i guess i answered the bankers question wrong.

 

I can't replace months of learning, with a few groups, but then the groups die because u don't know how everything was re-arranged on you, and in this community there is no patience, no tolerance.  game over man, game over.

 

So it goes.

 

Message Edited by CoLD MeTaL on 11-15-2005 11:41 AM

[CoLD MeTaL]

---

3devious wrote:

If this is the result of people making suggestions to the development team, I would be afraid to talk with them.

---

EXACTLY!

[SnowKnight]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, wether it be kendrickes "Templars are fine" or my "They are fine for healing, but oh so slow solo, and not fun to play anymore". But I think we can safely say MOST templars want some sort of fix.

[SenorPhrog]

Snowknight I'm failing to see the point of this thread.   Conjurers and Necros are widely known for their ability to solo effectively so if thats what you do then you should have made a Conjurer a long time ago.  I've taken mine to level 26 now and they solo darn well.  So because a Conjurer is fun to play that means a Templar has to work the same way?  I'm not disagreeing with you there could be a couple changes that  might quell some of the rumblings but this type of logic doesn't quite seem right.

[SnowKnight]

What Im getting at, is that the templar is just a chore to play, Id rather go watch paint dry.

The conjuror is just a lot more fun, my templar used to be fun too though.

[Isim]

The post LU13 templar is boreing to play, I spend most of my time leveling my ranger.

 

DEVs bring the fun back to the templars

[SenorPhrog]

Ok so why did you feel the need to create another "So I rolled a and I'm having more fun now" thread?  We didn't have enough of those already?   I'm glad you are liking Conjurer and its a great class but I don't see why we needed another one of these.

[SnowKnight]

I felt the need because its true. Watching the grass grow is at the moment more fun than a templar.

 

Oh yeah one more fact :

 

Our guild used to have 6 templars over 50. Now my templar is the only one left. And I dont even play him anymore.

[Kendricke]

---

SnowKnight wrote:

What Im getting at, is that the templar is just a chore to play, Id rather go watch paint dry.

The conjuror is just a lot more fun, my templar used to be fun too though.

---

How was the Templar "more fun"?  We took longer to solo prior to Live Update 13.  We had less options for soloing prior to Live Update 13.  So, how did Live Update 13 make Templar soloing less "fun"?

 

If not soloing, then why the references to soloing with the conjuror? 

[SnowKnight]

grouping for me consists of

- cast single target reactive

- cast group reactive

- repeat endlessly

 

Soloing gos

- Debuff

- Debuff

- DoT

- DoT

- HO,

- Smite,

- Strike,

- Smite,

- HO

- Strike,

- Smite

Repeat endlessly

 

That is why it is not fun. No variation, no options for using other methods to solo, or heal in a group. No real skil needed, I could prolly just make a macro for it, and no one in the group would notice. The only time healing is a challenge is when a tank is tanking at least 4 ^^^ heroics at once. Even one grouped broog and meathooks, can anyone say yawn?

 

Im using the conjuror as a reference, just to show how easy it is for other classes to solo and gain levels, as well as how much fun they are compared to a templar. As I said, 46 levels in less than 3 weeks, a lot of that solo, can a templar even come close to that?

[Timaarit]

---

Radar-X wrote:Ok so why did you feel the need to create another "So I rolled a and I'm having more fun now" thread?  We didn't have enough of those already?   I'm glad you are liking Conjurer and its a great class but I don't see why we needed another one of these.

---

You still dont understand????We do it to get our templars FIXED.

[Timaarit]

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Kendricke wrote:

---

SnowKnight wrote:

What Im getting at, is that the templar is just a chore to play, Id rather go watch paint dry.

The conjuror is just a lot more fun, my templar used to be fun too though.

How was the Templar "more fun"?  We took longer to solo prior to Live Update 13.  We had less options for soloing prior to Live Update 13.  So, how did Live Update 13 make Templar soloing less "fun"?

 

If not soloing, then why the references to soloing with the conjuror?

---

Funny, it took me 25% longer to solo after lu13.

[Troga]

Congrats to your Conjuror! u finally found the right class for u it seems! some peeps just pick the wrong class, thats it! it seems like the templar threat is full of "we cant solo" "we suck threat", maybe even more should pick another class! i am happy with my templar, she is 47 and i can duo a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lot with my conjuror. both give each other what they dont have

[Caethre]

OOC.

---

Radar-X wrote:
Ok so why did you feel the need to create another "So I rolled a and I'm having more fun now" thread?  We didn't have enough of those already?   I'm glad you are liking Conjurer and its a great class but I don't see why we needed another one of these.

---

I've seen you post this sort of harassment / attack on several threads now, trying to bully others off the forum.

Since when did anyone need your permission to post a thread giving their personal concerns? So there are other threads? So what, he has his own take on it, and noone needs Radar-X's permission before they post.

 

[Caethre]

OOC.

---

Troga wrote:
Congrats to your Conjuror! u finally found the right class for u it seems!
some peeps just pick the wrong class, thats it!

it seems like the templar threat is full of "we cant solo" "we suck threat", maybe
even more should pick another class!

i am happy with my templar, she is 47 and i can duo a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lot with my conjuror.
both give each other what they dont have

---

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but in your duo with the conjuror, to use your phrase, you are the one that "sucks". No, I do not mean that as a personal remark, as in, I do not imply it is your the player or your playing skills - I mean, precisely, that in that situation, a templar (any templar) "sucks". If you haven't realized that yet, you are just lacking knowledge. Now that is no crime, and if you are happy, keep on having fun, but coming here and telling others not to "whine" based on a lack of knowledge is going to get you called out.

Take your 49 Templar out of that duo. Give me about 5 weeks, maybe less, depending on how quickly they fix the vitality mess up, and swap my Fury in for you. Then watch your conjuror friend get XP about 50% faster duoing with her than with you. If you swapped in a Warden it would also go up (not by as much, but it would).

Yes, its that obvious. You don't care about being the "charity case", who is slowing down your friend's XP gain, for grouping with a badly weakened class? Then go right ahead. But most of us do very much care. Something needs to be done. It is not "whining", it is pointing out a gross class imbalance that needs correcting.

Of course, if you don't care, as I said, just keep enjoying what you do.

Felishanna [53 Templar]
Annaelisa [39 Fury]

[SnowKnight]

---

Caethre wrote:
OOC.

---

Troga wrote:
Congrats to your Conjuror! u finally found the right class for u it seems!
some peeps just pick the wrong class, thats it!

it seems like the templar threat is full of "we cant solo" "we suck threat", maybe
even more should pick another class!

i am happy with my templar, she is 47 and i can duo a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lot with my conjuror.
both give each other what they dont have

---

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but in your duo with the conjuror, to use your phrase, you are the one that "sucks". No, I do not mean that as a personal remark, as in, I do not imply it is your the player or your playing skills - I mean, precisely, that in that situation, a templar (any templar) "sucks". If you haven't realized that yet, you are just lacking knowledge. Now that is no crime, and if you are happy, keep on having fun, but coming here and telling others not to "whine" based on a lack of knowledge is going to get you called out.

Take your 49 Templar out of that duo. Give me about 5 weeks, maybe less, depending on how quickly they fix the vitality mess up, and swap my Fury in for you. Then watch your conjuror friend get XP about 50% faster duoing with her than with you. If you swapped in a Warden it would also go up (not by as much, but it would).

Yes, its that obvious. You don't care about being the "charity case", who is slowing down your friend's XP gain, for grouping with a badly weakened class? Then go right ahead. But most of us do very much care. Something needs to be done. It is not "whining", it is pointing out a gross class imbalance that needs correcting.

Of course, if you don't care, as I said, just keep enjoying what you do.

Felishanna [53 Templar]
Annaelisa [39 Fury]

---

Gotta agree here. As a conjuror id much rather have a fury or warden healing, simply for the fact that they can help dps too. The ONLY thing templar brings to a duo is healing. Which isnt absolutely nessecary, I can just root and recast my pet if it dies, no big deal there. I also have a heal for 444 at level 46, which i can use every 6 seconds.

Message Edited by SnowKnight on 11-16-2005 07:54 PM

[Troga]

for a steady flow of xp i rarely need the dps of the second class. my templar( i play both) is perfect for what i need her. buffs, heal, debuff, 'nuke', trigger chains. ofc it might be 'different' with a fury or warden. maybe the mobs would die in 20 secs instead of 40(no thanks, costs to much power for a steady xp flow). all i dont get here is the posts of what others have and do and we dont, most threat i ve read has ended up in some kind of they got this and we cant do that.... got me now maybe? what about a spell list? traits list? wisdom at max(spells get bonus)? ofc u could have said make one yourself.. stuff like that i am looking for, bugs and so on. not pointing out what u cant do..... maybe i just didnt find the usefull stuff in all of the usefull "we cant do any dps"  or "just start reroll" threats. oh and why the heck are there some multi threats on the same topic? hehe this threat tells u go and make a different class if u want dps....okay! maybe i didnt understand the post/topic! and leave my bubble alone! i burst it myself lol jk edit: wait! i just figured! dps support?! lol my conjuror( again i play both) is great at dps! thanks i dont need support at it! my bubble! my bubble! pls leave it alone!

Message Edited by Troga on 11-16-2005 03:02 AM