ZW Raid DPS, Lets see Parses.

[Colossaltitan]

Where are you at?  I haven't been able to raid much on my Necromancer, guilds had me on my alt, so all the parses I can bring up are basically Pre-EoF.

I'll try and get in on a few raids though on Malign.

I'd like to see, Deathtoll, Emerald Halls, TCM, Freethinkers, whatever else you guys have been up to.

Only post parses where you weren't slacking, etc, going all out, all the time.

Thanks, in advance.

[Omgidomms]

Necromancer raid dps?
I was overall best before, now i'm always overall best :p

And i broke my long dream of over 4k dps with 4360dps on a raid trash mob the other day.
PS: Yeah this was a trash mob, and no named or so..

Message Edited by Omgidomms on 12-15-2006 12:05 PM

[Colossaltitan]

I was looking for specifics, anyone can say they can be on top, but to show numbers and statistics is what proves it, and thats more so what I'm interested in, also, zone-wide DPS, and a Single Target trash mob is two different things .

[Badd Boy]

Any reason why you are not posting your zone wide DPS? I do not know what would benefit the Necro community from posting this. I really don't.

Message Edited by Badd Boy on 12-15-2006 07:04 PM

[Colossaltitan]

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Colossaltitan wrote:

Where are you at?  I haven't been able to raid much on my Necromancer, guilds had me on my alt, so all the parses I can bring up are basically Pre-EoF.

I'll try and get in on a few raids though on Malign.

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Again, I'm just curious to see what everyone is at, to compare it against myself when I am once again raiding on Malign and, what everyone else is parsing in comparison to other classes out there.

If I was raiding on my Necromancer, I would gladly be showing my parses.

[Danter]

Emerald Halls, we got up to the gardener on 2nd floor

 

Damage -> EXT DPS

 

Allies: (01:32:24) | 102200096 | 18434.36 | [Wizard-Fusion-30359]
Dants -> 9668533 -> 1743.96
Ranger -> 8987225 -> 1621.07
Wizard -> 7589611 -> 1368.98

 

 

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CWM - Cleared

Allies: (08:03) | 7410332 | 15342.30 | [Wizard-Ice Nova-24204]
Dants -> 814837 -> 1687.03
Necro -> 785526 -> 1626.35
Ranger -> 558249 -> 1155.80

 

---

Freethinkers - Cleared

Allies: (33:53) | 31858180 | 15670.53 | [Wizard-Ball of Lava-51306]
Dants -> 3215030 -> 1581.42
Wizard -> 2674070 -> 1315.33
Ranger -> 2659522 -> 1308.18

 

---

 

I did ~1500 last DT run but I wasn't really trying so I'm not gonna put that one up.

Stop giving Malignx crap about this thread, it pertains to our class considering we ARE a DPS class.

 

Dants, 70 necro of Impulse on Mistmoore

[quamdar]

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Badd Boy wrote:Any reason why you are not posting your zone wide DPS? I do not know what would benefit the Necro community from posting this. I really don't.

Message Edited by Badd Boy on 12-15-2006 07:04 PM

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it would benefit people because then they could compare DPS with each other since we are a DPS  class.  i will try to remember to run a parser sunday when we raid since i don't have any parses post-EoF atm, normally just look at what others post in game.

[Omgidomms]

Is't it better to discuss our group setup in raids, and that kind of stuff?
I guess most raiding necro's got a troub in their group, but what other classes?

[quamdar]

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Omgidomms wrote:

Is't it better to discuss our group setup in raids, and that kind of stuff?I guess most raiding necro's got a troub in their group, but what other classes?

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there are other threads that group set up is discussed in.  why do people not want a thread to talk about what kind of DPS we are doing?

[Omgidomms]

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quamdar wrote:

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Omgidomms wrote:

Is't it better to discuss our group setup in raids, and that kind of stuff?
I guess most raiding necro's got a troub in their group, but what other classes?

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there are other threads that group set up is discussed in.  why do people not want a thread to talk about what kind of DPS we are doing?

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Well, are't dps affected mostly by the group setup and what classes that buff you?
I suggest that people post their main buffs from group setup, special "tricks" they use, and how many aa's etc, when they post parses...

[Eriol]

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quamdar wrote:there are other threads that group set up is discussed in.  why do people not want a thread to talk about what kind of DPS we are doing?

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Because inevitably other classes link to such things in discussions about how they claim their own classes are gimped compared to our DPS, thus trying to influence yet ANOTHER nerf on us.Clear?

[Colossaltitan]

Necromancers need to be babysat probably more than any other class(ie Blood Pact & Lifeburn), but, not buff wise.

The most buffs we need to raid efficiently come from a Troubador, and Fury, Illusionist can give the best thing out of group.


I don't see why everyone is so caught up in wondering if there is some secret motive, Lol.

[Sic Boy]

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Colossaltitan wrote:

Necromancers need to be babysat probably more than any other class(ie Blood Pact & Lifeburn), but, not buff wise.The most buffs we need to raid efficiently come from a Troubador, and Fury, Illusionist can give the best thing out of group.I don't see why everyone is so caught up in wondering if there is some secret motive, Lol.

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shhhh, they're listening....Seriously though, I think it's a good idea. I like to see where I am compared to some of the other raid Necros out there. I'll make sure I keep ACT up this week and put up my parses from all the usuals at the end of the week. With that said though we do seem to have come out of EoF better off then some of the other dps classes, not counting god abilities.

[Geoff]

whats everyone set the combat cutoff on ACT at for the parse, 2 secs? 4 secs?

[KBern]

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Omgidomms wrote:

Is't it better to discuss our group setup in raids, and that kind of stuff?
I guess most raiding necro's got a troub in their group, but what other classes?

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Raid/group set up is everything when it comes to DPS, and how you compare.

[KBern]

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Colossaltitan wrote:

Necromancers need to be babysat probably more than any other class(ie Blood Pact & Lifeburn), but, not buff wise.

The most buffs we need to raid efficiently come from a Troubador, and Fury, Illusionist can give the best thing out of group.


I don't see why everyone is so caught up in wondering if there is some secret motive, Lol.

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I think Eriol had it right.  I consider it like fight club...I just don't talk about what I do in game anymore on forums.

It leads to bad things.

[Badd Boy]

I am just scared to death of the nerf bat. Heh, I was not trying to suggest you have alterior motives. I am wondering as much as anyone.. I just hate to see the other classes copy/paste and say we need to be nerfed instead of them learning to play there class.

[KittenClaw]

Freethinkers Hideout -- 12/13 ZONEWIDE (Wipes excluded)Allies (2735) 29509828  17830.71 [Dalimar-Manaburn-63330]Raygo 2955154  1785.59  <---- Conjuror (my hubby, so it's sort of okay if he beats me...)Isodora 2875632  1737.54 <---- NecromancerAllowen 2754084  1664.10 <---- NecromancerNataliaa 2449125  1479.83 <---- BrigandDalimar 2142252  1294.41 <---- WizardRaiuub 2070342  1250.96 <---- Swashie

Othysis Muravian - Freethinkers Hideout -- 12/13Allies (03:0 3343848  17786.43 [Dalimar-Manaburn-50940]Isodora 511904  2722.89  <---- NecromancerNataliaa 411159  2187.02 <---- BrigandRaygo 402222  2139.48 <---- ConjurorAllowen 337097  1793.07 <---- NecromancerRaiuub 285166  1516.84 <---- SwashieDalimar 202092  1074.96 <---- WizardAbomidable 159606  848.97 <---- GuardianV'Tekla K'Zalk - Mistmoore Inner Sanctum -- 12/14Allies: (01:40) 1424715 | 14247.15 [Dalimar-Manaburn-53370]Isodora 213525 | 2135.25 <---- NecromancerAllowen 195986 | 1959.86 <---- NecromancerRaygo 131589 | 1315.89 <---- ConjurorNataliaa 128372 | 1283.72 <---- BrigandSlackin 125051 | 1250.51 <---- AssassinAgigox 122302 | 1223.02 <---- ConjurorDalimar 113737 | 1137.37 <---- WizardArchanis 103321 | 1033.21 <---- RangerD'Lizta Viswin -- Mistmoore Inner Sanctum - 12/14Allies: (04:07) 3957938 | 16024.04 [Dalimar-Manaburn-72150]Isodora 542533 | 2196.49 <---- NecromancerRaygo 386564 | 1565.04 <---- ConjurorNataliaa 365545 | 1479.94 <---- BrigandAllowen 334029 | 1352.34 <---- NecromancerPowownes 314505 | 1273.30 <---- AssassinNairb 283461 | 1147.62 <---- BruiserI think I'll stop here, I could go on, but it seems like a waste of time, you get the idea.

Message Edited by KittenClaw22 on 12-18-2006 10:38 AM

[KittenClaw]

I don't think most people understand how hard a necro has to work to be top dps. With our limited amount of spells it requires constant casting, there is no pause. You use your hot keys and you are never done casting or you don't top the parse. You can't pause to look at the television and see what wacky antics Cartman just got up to on South Park or you will drop on the parse.You can't wait until the end and manaburn and still parse high like a wizard does.For me, in a group with a troub, I use my mage pet to maximize my DPS... This means constant monitoring of the pet to make sure it doesn't run in like a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and try to hit the monster with it's Tarinax's Spine. I hate to sound cheesy but it requires constant vigilance. Most necros world wide don't want to have to think so much about what their pet is doing, so they use the scout pet.

[Dextera]

I'll troll this one.

 

Everyone has to be on top of things to top the parse. No class can sit and watch TV and top the parse, it doesn't happen, so a Necro or an Assassin or a Swashy aren't working harder than each other.

 

Oh yea, and Wizzies can just throw Manaburn at the end of a fight and top parse, give me a break.  /sarcasm off

[IllusiveThoughts]

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KBern wrote:

I think Eriol had it right.  I consider it like fight club...I just don't talk about what I do in game anymore on forums.

It leads to bad things.

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this attitude isn't really neccessary, I've had the wizard parse thread open for months with 10 pages of parse postings, not one person has attempted to use the thread as a *nerf the wizzies* post, in fact lots of good can come out of it, showing buffs on a toon for the zone parsings, group set ups, it also shows historical data, such as how a class is doing through all the changes.

I think parse threads should be on all the class forums, because then when people want to see how they can do or compare against other players, they can see if they're on par or if they need improving.

[KBern]

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IllusiveThoughts wrote:

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KBern wrote:

I think Eriol had it right.  I consider it like fight club...I just don't talk about what I do in game anymore on forums.

It leads to bad things.

---

this attitude isn't really neccessary, I've had the wizard parse thread open for months with 10 pages of parse postings, not one person has attempted to use the thread as a *nerf the wizzies* post, in fact lots of good can come out of it, showing buffs on a toon for the zone parsings, group set ups, it also shows historical data, such as how a class is doing through all the changes.

I think parse threads should be on all the class forums, because then when people want to see how they can do or compare against other players, they can see if they're on par or if they need improving.

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Yes but w/o getting back into the DPS tier discussions, wizards are supposed to the mythical T1 while necros are not.  So when people see necros doing X dmg and some other class not, you get back to the nerf necro posts, and we have had enough nerfs to our spell lines and pets due to just such discussions.

I just don't talk about it anymore.

[Fews]

Actually,

 

   There is a certain validity to the argument of not going public if your class is overperforming.

 

I am honest, I know the top DPS that a well played necro is, and no I don't think it is properly balanced.

 

That aside, since that is a DEV issue...

Every class should have a parse thread because it does make those who read it examine their DPS and if it seems

to fall short they have a place to pose questions and seek advice from others in class that are doing more.

 

I have a Necro alt, and as one necro whispered to me is that top DPS depended especially on one set of abilities.(something I didn't explore since I still play my wizard 95% of the time)

 

What I have seen all Necros do that are high in the parse is to use their Mage pet not the scout pet.

 

Also looking at realtime parses they often seem to jump up a few hundred DPS at the end of a fight, not sure if that is some Necro

sacrifice pet thing or not.(Can you tell I really don't play my necro.lol)

 

Necro's have to joust their pet which is more onerous than a scout having to joust, so it is one skill set they have to learn that sorcerers don't.

 

But class parsing thread will improve overall class DPS which is good as long as you don't get hit by the nerf bat when SOE see overall Necro DPS go up.

 

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-18-2006 01:40 PM

[MickeysIce]

Yes necros who want to be top dps have to work hard, but as stated above, all classes do, to my knowledge there isnt a class in the game that has an autopilot button or a "I wanna watch South Park" mode, all classes have to work all aspects and fine tune their approach to the situation at hand.  Now the part about why other necros use the scout pet that Isodora said is kinda buggin me too and I dont want you to take this the wrong way Iso, so please dont.  You kinda seem to come off with a holier than thou or if you dont do it my way its because you are lazy or stupid and that is far from the truth.  I use the mage pet when their are groups, or an aoe requiring jousting techniques, however when there is negligible aoe and/or a single target mob, I like to use my scout pet simple as that, its not a matter of I dont want to be bothered with jousting so I use my scout pet.  Also I have found that when using lifeburn after that first lifetap, slap consumption on your scout pet and its a bit better than the mage pet as far as health return.  Of course its all for naught if the healers arent keeping you up so the real credit goes to them.  So once again I just wanted to make the point that although you are a knowledgeble, skilled player there are others who may use methods different from your own and still achieve impressive numbers.  This wasnt intended to be a flame, just a defense of anybody who decides to ever bring out their scout pet for a raid mob  

[Fews]

On a slight tangent, as a person who mostly is looking at the class from the outside(I don't play my necro enough yet to conside being in the inside).

I think lifeburn is awesome for you. Not because it even makes necro DPS higher(I have my own problem with that.lol)

But conceptually it is a spell with desirable DPS for necro that makes them depend on another class to save them from what is otherwise death.

Kinda like the person who falls backward trusting the person standing behind them to catch them. Adds tension and pleasure when it works out.

Lifeburn is a fun spell even from watching it on the outside.

Back to Necro parsing...,

 

 

[MickeysIce]

I totally agree with ya there, I dont really care how they balance the classes as long as they are balanced in a way that makes them all challenging/fun to play, I like knowing that I have on the ball healers that have my back when I lifeburn.  Trust me my first main was a warlock and Im not even going to get into that but it is good to see that they are at least making some steps in the right direction for the sorceror class, from what I have heard from other raiding sorcerors anyway.  Another point, there will be times when necro dps drops off a bit and this is not necessarily because they are slacking, the whole mission is taking down the mob and if that means I have to spot heal, rezz another crucial member of the team so be it, Im not gonna be crying at the end if Im not #1 on the parse as long as we didnt wipe so I think the interplay and required coordination between the classes is what makes an encounter challenging and worth spending time on, although I do get a little happy in the pants when I parse high too

[Sarkoris]

/Wave Malign - Najena represent.

The key things I think that help to top dps parsers are: group makeup, quality of pets and ca's (master over ad3 over ad1 etc), aa's (you have to love lifeburn), gear (proc gear, high int etc) and most importantly knowledge of your class.

I will get some zone wide raid parsers from this weeks raids (cleared logs at the weekend). I don't parse as high as some of those that have posted, usually around 2k on named and 1.2-1.4k zonewide depending on how heavy the AOE action is (/shudder HOS). Sadly the only master pet I have is the tank pet, and I have been slacking off on AA's (59 total).

Lets get down to specifics. What AA's paths have you taken. Be specific as in Int 4-4-4-8 etc - not just int line. Which EOF AA's have you taken or intend to take and why. What gear do you use to increase your DPS. What pets do you use (always mage regardless of aoe, scout on occassion etc) and what quality are they. What is the quality of yoru archlich (to help work out proc damage).

What is your cast cycle. Do you debuff to help the raid out or consider that someone else's job and purely cast offensive spells. Do you only cast duisease based spells for the lich proc ? What range do you stand from mobs, up close and personal to fire off a life tap aoe occassionally and so your backed off mage pet doesnt have to return so far, or max range and ping away with your dots. Does your cast cyxcle differ from trash mobs to named ? Do you only stay on the MA target or tab over to put your swarm pets on another mob ?

I'll start and add more detail once I can logon and verify a few things.

KOS - AA's. Not sure and eq2 players is borked atm. Pretty sure its str and int line. Exact numbers not really sure.

EOF - 20 in rotting - 1 in final ability (lifeburn). 3 points in grave calling line (mage ability).

Proc Gear: Grizzle's walking stick, godking staff and collection earring (name escapes me).

Casting order - long dot, short dot, lifetap, possibly darkness or debuff for the lich proc, swarm and aoe pet timed depending on aoe - early if no aoe, post aoe to maximise life expectancy otherwise. aoe dot and aoe lifetap if many targets and no risk of aoe, or continue standard cycle, undead tide and lifeburn thrown in on named.

Sark.

[Dextera]

Hrm... ~2k parse, with A3 pet, and 59AAs... makes me wonder how much higher one can parse...

[Imperishab]

All this talk about parsing really makes me laugh :smileyvery-happy:.  Many eq2 players ask which class is the best dps ect...  One thing that isn't brought up is the player makes the toon the toon doesn't make the player.  Everyone knows a well played toon can out dps a totally geared up noobster that just doesn't perform well.  Everyone has seen it where they may be top of the dps list and the same class with about the same gear may be 500-1k less dps zone wide.  This is the key to anyone trying to parse tops.  If you cant play it shows.  I do believe as a decent raiding necro with eof being released you should be shooting for on average 1,500-2,100 dps zone wide.  Anything extra and you have played the zone perfect.  Im not saying many don't do higher then that, but if you really are looking for a number per zone day in and day out that's about right.

 

Imperishable-70 necro/92 aa/70 carp./103 tinker

Heka-70 guard/59 aa/70 prov/289 transmuter

Nakazato-70 bruis/50 aa

[Fews]

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Imperishable wrote:

All this talk about parsing really makes me laugh :smileyvery-happy:.  Many eq2 players ask which class is the best dps ect...  One thing that isn't brought up is the player makes the toon the toon doesn't make the player. Imperishable-70 necro/92 aa/70 carp./103 tinker

 

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Having parses or knowing what people in your class do against specific mobs and or zones can help. I wouldn't laugh at it. When you say the player makes the toon...it depends on what you mean by that.

Let's break that thought down.(with a DPS centric view)

    Does the player go AFK during the fight, is drunk, watches TV more than the fight..then yeah they will suck.

    Have they figured out the min/max AAs for their playstyles and people they group with? No? Then sure they will lose DPS

   Have they figured out the best casting sequence, and know what zones/mobs will AOE their pet?

   Can they keep their pet alive and doing DPS?

    Do they know when and where to do all of the utility aspects of their toon?

Now here are the toon/raid aspects outside of player skill:

    Is the raid setup ideal for the class, have the supporting classes slacked and not provided the support for your DPS?

    Key spells mastered? (Adds 10-15% to DPS)

   How good is the gear (To me the least important, it's nice, but not the decisive factor)

So on what would be called skill, all that means is they are intentive while playing, learns what AA and casting sequence max DPS, and control their pet, and if people post the ideal cast sequences and AA setups then they don't even have to learn that. So yes posting information in the forums can decrease the amount of skill needed to do well. It leaves the skill factor way down on the list, and isn't just something to be laughed at.

They just need to not be drunk and to have read the forums IF the forums spill the beans on AA setups and casting sequence. The only finessse left is making sure pet lives and that it nukes, and mix in the utility aspects. So the knowledge part of the "player skill" can be trivilized by people in forums helping give them that knowledge. Parses do help on that, as well as people laying out raid setups, their AA setups, etc.

 

Message Edited by Fewson on 12-19-2006 10:11 AM