Necro DD's... possible change?

Necronstreks · 01-27-2005, 08:26 PM

Sup guys... just running an idea (that's probably already been mentioned in this forum somewhere) by y'all.

I seriously think that all of our DD's should be scaled up in terms of damage, power cost, and even possibly cooldown. The reason that I say this, is that in order to put out competitive DPS we have to chain cast our DD's... which while not all that power intensive... tends to break tons and tons of HO's.

So at many instances our options are... Don't chain DD to work out the HO's... which hurts our DPS (and makes us look bad) or chain the DD's and break a couple HO's here and there. Beyond that it annoys the crap out of me that I need to spend 70% of each double arrow fight chain casting my 1 DD (maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I parse and try to be competitive with the other DPS classes).

I understand that if they doubled everything (as an example) then resists would be even worse (like 2 resists in a row only with 1 cast)... but frankly, if it meant I had to spam less to keep DPS up then it would be worthwhile. I know there are ways around chain casting, but it's just not as high DPS as we're capable of if we don't cast chain (after layering the proper debuffs, buffs, dots)...

Does anyone else out there agree with me? Or disagree (please include your reasoning)?

Ageariashi · 01-27-2005, 08:54 PM

I cast my dots, maybe one dustblast and then it is time to refresh my dots. I'm not at my home machine, but I'm almost sure my dots are at ad1 or ad3, maybe static is at app3...not sure. The point is, if your chain casting your DB, have all your dots worn off or are my spell timers hosed? I don't have time to chain cast DB between refreshing my dots and the first couple of dots running out. We get our DPS from our dots not our wimpy nuke, so I make sure to keep them refreshed. If I hit every dot from left to right on my first row of buttons, with out a fizzle and/or resist, then I can hit DB twice. Maybe I'm doing something wrong though.

Ageariashi 23 Necro - Guk

Fwi · 01-27-2005, 09:05 PM

I think our DD is fine as it is. When we get Ghastly Stench at 35 we can easily stack 130-170/tick of DoT damage on any mob, + pet, + rats if you use them, +DD on top.

I think fixing the non-tank pet DPS issues would serve us better.

Viromage · 01-27-2005, 09:06 PM

I have been fighting in Zek alot lately and fighting orc Centurions (2 arrow up orange at lvl 30) and I can equal to outdamage any wizard I have grouped with over the coarse of the fight and that is usually 4 orange mobs and one 2 arrow up group mob. I don't know if parcer includes pet damage or not. Where I shine is I siphon power mid fight so I am never out of power and continue to nuke and dot right up to the end. The wizard runs out about 3/4 way through the fight. the numbers I have been seeing from the people parcing me if mid 7k's to mid 8k's. Now if a rouge is in the group he will have high parce easy.. This is at lvl 30 with adept 1 PB, adept 3 seism, adept 3 blight, adept 3 debuff (forget name) and adept 3 UA.

Necronstreks · 01-27-2005, 09:13 PM

Viromage wrote:

The wizard runs out about 3/4 way through the fight. the numbers I have been seeing from the people parcing me if mid 7k's to mid 8k's. Now if a rouge is in the group he will have high parce easy.. This is at lvl 30 with adept 1 PB, adept 3 seism, adept 3 blight, adept 3 debuff (forget name) and adept 3 UA.

I'm kinda asking in terms of our single target DD lines... I have PB Ad3 and frequently for the quicker fights I just chain cast it because it's more effective than DoTs because of the cast time on WA (though BE is still pretty fast). I guess my strat at 35 will change with the new DoT... so we'll see.

But basically my real question was focused towards the single target DD's... I like our AE's fine now that they're mostly fixed.

See · 01-27-2005, 10:01 PM

Necronstreksis wrote:

I just chain cast it because it's more effective than DoTs because of the cast time on WA (though BE is still pretty fast). I

What you have to realize is that DoTs are more that just damage. DoTs are also debuffs in many cases. If you aren't casting WA because it takes too long then you are screing yourself and (more importantly) your team. WA is a -STR -STA cast. The 4 secs to cast it will add from 25-40 per hit on your PB and will make the mob die much faster. As the Rock would say, "Know your role."

El Chupacabr · 01-27-2005, 10:07 PM

I think our output is just fine with PB. I chain cast PB (adept 1) just like you do, timing my DoT's to coincide with the DD refresh. The 35 DoT really is where the necro hits his stride, it's a pretty fast cast high damage (compared to every other DoT we get) spell that boosts the snot out of our DPS.

Basically, for AoE type encounters I try to get breath of the unearthed and seism out on the first mob (doesn't always happen, but try), ghastly stench and blight the second, ghastly and pestilential the third, ghastly and blight the fourth, pestilential blast chain cast the rest.

Most of our DoT's just aren't worth casting on non ^^ type mobs, withering affliction just doesn't do enough damage/debuff to make up for its horrible cast time and the return of grisly mark just isn't high enough to make it worth casting on anything below ^^. Pairs of ^'s may get withering and grisly during the pestilential refresh but not as part of the initial DoT stack. In the end though, it's all about the pestilential chain cast, HO's be damned.

I've found that those chains get me the most DPS and can get agro off of a guardian if he isn't careful. At 35 I consistently have the highest overall damage output (and DPS) in groups fighting any encounter type, thanks in large part to PB. At the end of a fight the % of my damage done by that one spell usually comes in second place to ghastly stench (breath can do alot in a large fight but those 100+ tics of ghastly {adept 1} really add up fast).

Our damage is already huge, I'd venture to say that changing PB would unbalance us after 35. Ghastly stench really is a big deal, it's your BE upgrade essentially and it hits hard... it's a shame it takes to 35 to really come into our own but I think our single target output is just fine at this level.

Jakand · 01-27-2005, 10:30 PM

At my level (45) I tend to agree that our DD's are fairly inadequate in damage. While PB worked fine through the 30s, from 40 up my DPS has not scaled properly with my level (Even with adept Skinrot). However, all mages (Especially Wizards) suffer from this same issue and If I recall, it is being addressed already =)

El Chupacabr · 01-27-2005, 10:50 PM

Jakanden wrote:
At my level (45) I tend to agree that our DD's are fairly inadequate in damage. While PB worked fine through the 30s, from 40 up my DPS has not scaled properly with my level (Even with adept Skinrot). However, all mages (Especially Wizards) suffer from this same issue and If I recall, it is being addressed already =)

I should have added the spell scaling caveat Jakanden, thanks for pointing it out. I should have said at 35 not above 35. If/when our damage scales properly in the 40's our single target damage will be proper and no need for a DD upgrade... again, once all our spells are adjusted.

Viromage · 01-27-2005, 10:54 PM

Sorry I mis understood what you were getting at.

See · 01-28-2005, 12:52 PM

I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled SMILEY

At lvl 34 Adept I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage.

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage.

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage.

At lvl 34 Master I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage.

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage.

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage.

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage.

Just thought I would share SMILEY

vro · 01-28-2005, 07:06 PM

Seeko wrote:
I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled

At lvl 34 Adept I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage.

At lvl 34 Master I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage.

Just thought I would share

/drool!!!

Jakand · 01-29-2005, 03:57 AM

Seeko wrote:
I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled

At lvl 34 Adept I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage.

At lvl 34 Master I:

YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage.
YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage.

Just thought I would share

Awsome heh - you outdamage me =)

backya · 01-29-2005, 08:26 AM

how much dd you psy for it? *drool* i need a towel.....

See · 01-29-2005, 11:28 AM

backyard wrote:

how much dd you psy for it? *drool* i need a towel.....

85gp

I saw it once at 65gp when I was lvl 29. I didn't have the coin at the time so I swore the next time I saw it I'd get it no matter what.

Necronstreks · 01-29-2005, 07:57 PM

I'd snatch up PB M1 for 3pp or less...

I bought a RT M1 for 10pp last night... a bit higher than the 1pp I saw it for originally 6 weeks ago... but hell... it's our last tank pet for now and supposedly uber DPS pet into the high 40's.. and 10pp is going to be a steal for an M1 pet once everyone is L50.

Funny thing though is that it was a necromancer selling it, so I'm guessing he didn't think he was going to sell it for that much....

Teehee... :smileywink:

01-27-2005, 08:26 PM	#1
Necronstreks Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 218	Sup guys... just running an idea (that's probably already been mentioned in this forum somewhere) by y'all. I seriously think that all of our DD's should be scaled up in terms of damage, power cost, and even possibly cooldown. The reason that I say this, is that in order to put out competitive DPS we have to chain cast our DD's... which while not all that power intensive... tends to break tons and tons of HO's. So at many instances our options are... Don't chain DD to work out the HO's... which hurts our DPS (and makes us look bad) or chain the DD's and break a couple HO's here and there. Beyond that it annoys the crap out of me that I need to spend 70% of each double arrow fight chain casting my 1 DD (maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I parse and try to be competitive with the other DPS classes). I understand that if they doubled everything (as an example) then resists would be even worse (like 2 resists in a row only with 1 cast)... but frankly, if it meant I had to spam less to keep DPS up then it would be worthwhile. I know there are ways around chain casting, but it's just not as high DPS as we're capable of if we don't cast chain (after layering the proper debuffs, buffs, dots)... Does anyone else out there agree with me? Or disagree (please include your reasoning)? __________________ __________________________________ Necron Fleshweaver - Iksar Necromancer/Sage Hero of Kugup Maiev Shadowsong - Dark Elf Predator/Alchemist Proud creator and owner of: 3 Legerdemain / 25 Sepultures Adept III Server-Firsts on Befallen

01-27-2005, 09:05 PM	#3
Fwi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 69	I think our DD is fine as it is. When we get Ghastly Stench at 35 we can easily stack 130-170/tick of DoT damage on any mob, + pet, + rats if you use them, +DD on top. I think fixing the non-tank pet DPS issues would serve us better. __________________ 38 Necromancer

01-27-2005, 09:06 PM	#4
Viromage Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	I have been fighting in Zek alot lately and fighting orc Centurions (2 arrow up orange at lvl 30) and I can equal to outdamage any wizard I have grouped with over the coarse of the fight and that is usually 4 orange mobs and one 2 arrow up group mob. I don't know if parcer includes pet damage or not. Where I shine is I siphon power mid fight so I am never out of power and continue to nuke and dot right up to the end. The wizard runs out about 3/4 way through the fight. the numbers I have been seeing from the people parcing me if mid 7k's to mid 8k's. Now if a rouge is in the group he will have high parce easy.. This is at lvl 30 with adept 1 PB, adept 3 seism, adept 3 blight, adept 3 debuff (forget name) and adept 3 UA. __________________

01-27-2005, 09:13 PM	#5
Necronstreks Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 218	Viromage wrote: The wizard runs out about 3/4 way through the fight. the numbers I have been seeing from the people parcing me if mid 7k's to mid 8k's. Now if a rouge is in the group he will have high parce easy.. This is at lvl 30 with adept 1 PB, adept 3 seism, adept 3 blight, adept 3 debuff (forget name) and adept 3 UA. I'm kinda asking in terms of our single target DD lines... I have PB Ad3 and frequently for the quicker fights I just chain cast it because it's more effective than DoTs because of the cast time on WA (though BE is still pretty fast). I guess my strat at 35 will change with the new DoT... so we'll see. But basically my real question was focused towards the single target DD's... I like our AE's fine now that they're mostly fixed. __________________ __________________________________ Necron Fleshweaver - Iksar Necromancer/Sage Hero of Kugup Maiev Shadowsong - Dark Elf Predator/Alchemist Proud creator and owner of: 3 Legerdemain / 25 Sepultures Adept III Server-Firsts on Befallen

01-27-2005, 10:01 PM	#6
See Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 419	Necronstreksis wrote: I just chain cast it because it's more effective than DoTs because of the cast time on WA (though BE is still pretty fast). I What you have to realize is that DoTs are more that just damage. DoTs are also debuffs in many cases. If you aren't casting WA because it takes too long then you are screing yourself and (more importantly) your team. WA is a -STR -STA cast. The 4 secs to cast it will add from 25-40 per hit on your PB and will make the mob die much faster. As the Rock would say, "Know your role." __________________

01-27-2005, 08:54 PM	#2
Ageariashi Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	I cast my dots, maybe one dustblast and then it is time to refresh my dots. I'm not at my home machine, but I'm almost sure my dots are at ad1 or ad3, maybe static is at app3...not sure. The point is, if your chain casting your DB, have all your dots worn off or are my spell timers hosed? I don't have time to chain cast DB between refreshing my dots and the first couple of dots running out. We get our DPS from our dots not our wimpy nuke, so I make sure to keep them refreshed. If I hit every dot from left to right on my first row of buttons, with out a fizzle and/or resist, then I can hit DB twice. Maybe I'm doing something wrong though. Ageariashi 23 Necro - Guk

01-27-2005, 10:07 PM	#7
El Chupacabr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 850	I think our output is just fine with PB. I chain cast PB (adept 1) just like you do, timing my DoT's to coincide with the DD refresh. The 35 DoT really is where the necro hits his stride, it's a pretty fast cast high damage (compared to every other DoT we get) spell that boosts the snot out of our DPS. Basically, for AoE type encounters I try to get breath of the unearthed and seism out on the first mob (doesn't always happen, but try), ghastly stench and blight the second, ghastly and pestilential the third, ghastly and blight the fourth, pestilential blast chain cast the rest. Most of our DoT's just aren't worth casting on non ^^ type mobs, withering affliction just doesn't do enough damage/debuff to make up for its horrible cast time and the return of grisly mark just isn't high enough to make it worth casting on anything below ^^. Pairs of ^'s may get withering and grisly during the pestilential refresh but not as part of the initial DoT stack. In the end though, it's all about the pestilential chain cast, HO's be damned. I've found that those chains get me the most DPS and can get agro off of a guardian if he isn't careful. At 35 I consistently have the highest overall damage output (and DPS) in groups fighting any encounter type, thanks in large part to PB. At the end of a fight the % of my damage done by that one spell usually comes in second place to ghastly stench (breath can do alot in a large fight but those 100+ tics of ghastly {adept 1} really add up fast). Our damage is already huge, I'd venture to say that changing PB would unbalance us after 35. Ghastly stench really is a big deal, it's your BE upgrade essentially and it hits hard... it's a shame it takes to 35 to really come into our own but I think our single target output is just fine at this level. __________________ Want to learn about Necromancers? Check out The Necromancer FAQ

01-27-2005, 10:30 PM	#8
Jakand Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 352	At my level (45) I tend to agree that our DD's are fairly inadequate in damage. While PB worked fine through the 30s, from 40 up my DPS has not scaled properly with my level (Even with adept Skinrot). However, all mages (Especially Wizards) suffer from this same issue and If I recall, it is being addressed already =)

01-27-2005, 10:50 PM	#9
El Chupacabr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 850	Jakanden wrote: At my level (45) I tend to agree that our DD's are fairly inadequate in damage. While PB worked fine through the 30s, from 40 up my DPS has not scaled properly with my level (Even with adept Skinrot). However, all mages (Especially Wizards) suffer from this same issue and If I recall, it is being addressed already =) I should have added the spell scaling caveat Jakanden, thanks for pointing it out. I should have said at 35 not above 35. If/when our damage scales properly in the 40's our single target damage will be proper and no need for a DD upgrade... again, once all our spells are adjusted. __________________ Want to learn about Necromancers? Check out The Necromancer FAQ

01-27-2005, 10:54 PM	#10
Viromage Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 235	Sorry I mis understood what you were getting at. __________________

01-28-2005, 12:52 PM	#11
See Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 419	I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled At lvl 34 Adept I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage. At lvl 34 Master I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage. Just thought I would share __________________

01-28-2005, 07:06 PM	#12
vro Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 47	Seeko wrote: I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled At lvl 34 Adept I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage. At lvl 34 Master I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage. Just thought I would share /drool!!! __________________ --- Dev's dont click me!

01-29-2005, 03:57 AM	#13
Jakand Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 352	Seeko wrote: I was just fortunate enough to get a Master I for PB tonight and I am thrilled At lvl 34 Adept I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 101 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 104 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a shadowed servitor for 100 points of disease damage. At lvl 34 Master I: YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 195 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 196 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 218 points of disease damage. YOUR Pestilential Blast hits a patchwork soldier for 197 points of disease damage. Just thought I would share Awsome heh - you outdamage me =)

01-29-2005, 08:26 AM	#14
backya Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 105	how much dd you psy for it? drool i need a towel.....

01-29-2005, 11:28 AM	#15
See Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 419	backyard wrote: how much dd you psy for it? drool i need a towel..... 85gp I saw it once at 65gp when I was lvl 29. I didn't have the coin at the time so I swore the next time I saw it I'd get it no matter what. __________________

01-29-2005, 07:57 PM	#16
Necronstreks Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 218	I'd snatch up PB M1 for 3pp or less... I bought a RT M1 for 10pp last night... a bit higher than the 1pp I saw it for originally 6 weeks ago... but hell... it's our last tank pet for now and supposedly uber DPS pet into the high 40's.. and 10pp is going to be a steal for an M1 pet once everyone is L50. Funny thing though is that it was a necromancer selling it, so I'm guessing he didn't think he was going to sell it for that much.... Teehee... :smileywink: __________________ __________________________________ Necron Fleshweaver - Iksar Necromancer/Sage Hero of Kugup Maiev Shadowsong - Dark Elf Predator/Alchemist Proud creator and owner of: 3 Legerdemain / 25 Sepultures Adept III Server-Firsts on Befallen